Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jim Burr
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000361
00:02 ¤ ¤
00:30 Hello I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome again to
00:32 Issues and Answers. We welcome you no matter where
00:34 you're joining us from around the world. I think today you're
00:38 going to be extra glad that you tuned in because we are going to
00:42 have an incredible discussion on evolution, intelligent design
00:46 and creationism. You know the bible says in Romans 1:18 and 19
00:50 let me read this to you. It says For God's holy wrath and
00:54 indignation are revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
00:58 and all unrighteousness of men who in their wickedness repress
01:02 and hinder the truth and make it inoperative. For that which is
01:06 known about God is evident to them and made plain in their
01:11 inner consciousness because God himself has shown it to them.
01:16 For ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature
01:21 and attributes, that is his eternal power and divinity have
01:25 been made intelligible and clearly discernible through the
01:29 things that have been made. So men are without excuse,
01:33 altogether without any kind of defense or justification.
01:38 Please help us welcome our special guest Jim Burr and Jim
01:42 is the president of Heavens Declare ministry. Jim we are
01:47 so thankful that you have returned to 3ABN.
01:50 Yeah, it's always an honor for me to get a call and say would
01:53 you come again, invited back. It's a big honor.
01:55 You know I remember watching you some years ago when you did the
01:59 Christian Concerns and it was always so fascinating because
02:03 your whole involvement is fascinating to me because you
02:07 started off in the television business and then just through
02:12 amateur astronomy, you became very interested in that,
02:15 suddenly you started developing and manufacturing telescopes and
02:19 you've even sold telescopes to NASA haven't you?
02:22 We did sell two, yes, for the Mars science lab which the
02:25 project now, the major part, has been cancelled, but yes we did
02:28 sell two to NASA. That is amazing. And I know that
02:31 you're also an inventor and you hold 12 or at least about a
02:35 dozen patents, I think.
02:36 Something like that I guess yeah
02:38 Something like that. Now what we're going to be talking today
02:43 about is creationism, evolution and intelligent design. Let me
02:49 ask you a quick question. When our schools are saying we want
02:54 science for our kids. We want it to be absolutely something
02:58 that's trustworthy, that you can prove. You've got these three
03:02 theories out here and really to me creationism and intelligent
03:05 design are very closely akin. Intelligent design just doesn't
03:11 say who the designer is. But can the Bible be proven? Let me
03:16 phrase this another way. Is science really that reliable?
03:21 Well we're going to show today that there are so many problems
03:24 with science. So much is learned Every day something new is
03:27 coming out and old things are shown to be obsolete and we've
03:31 got new theories. Even now they're saying we need a new
03:35 physics because this latest discovery violates all standard
03:39 physics. So what we want to do is show the cry is give us...
03:43 we want science. We want something we can taste, touch
03:46 feel you know verify, solid science. And yet we're going to
03:51 show some of the problems with evolution and the thing about
03:55 intelligent design... The intelligent design movement is a
03:59 recent movement as opposed to evolution. The intelligent
04:04 design people tend not to say who this intelligent designer is
04:08 They're kind of fence straddlers aren't they?
04:10 Yeah right. They're kind of between a rock and a hard place.
04:13 The evolutionists say tell us who this intelligent designer is
04:17 so we can write it off. We want to write off God. Tell us it's
04:20 God, come on tell us. And they're reluctant to say it's
04:22 God and the Christians over here are saying to the intelligent
04:25 design people, tell them, tell them it's God. Because it's on
04:29 it's on our side you see. Basically Michael Behe has been
04:32 one who is really prominent in that and has come out with
04:36 the Darwin's Black Box which is really a wonderful book and he
04:39 shows the complexity of the bacteria flagellar motor, he
04:44 talks about the mousetrap that you need all the ingredients
04:48 there before it works. It's like your car. If I take your starter
04:51 it isn't going to work, right. If I pull out a piston, it's not
04:55 going to run. So Michael Behe is saying irreducible complexity,
04:58 everything has to be there and how do you evolve all of these
05:03 different ingredients to make it work. So the cry is we want
05:07 science for our kids. So today I would just like to show what
05:11 some of the problems with evolution are and then show how
05:15 we can actually test the Bible. The Bible's not a science book,
05:19 but yet there are so many things that are scientifically accurate
05:22 You know the Bible writers were prevented from following the
05:26 common errors of the day. You know when some religions said
05:29 the earth is supported on the backs of turtles and elephants.
05:32 That it was flat. Yeah and that kind of stuff.
05:34 And the Bible writers talk about the circle of the earth. Let me
05:41 share this real quick. I'm not going to have much to say
05:43 through this whole program but when we were talking earlier I
05:46 told you one of my favorite scriptures was Job 38:19. It
05:50 says, where is the way where light dwells and as for darkness
05:55 where is it's abode? And then in the note here in my Bible, the
05:59 footnote says, how except by divine inspiration could Job
06:03 have known that light does not dwell in a place but in a way
06:06 for light as modern man has discovered involves motion, wave
06:10 motions traveling 186,000 miles a second it can only dwell in a
06:15 way. So like you said the Bible proves to be far beyond...
06:19 We're probably going to mention the 15 points here that can be
06:23 tested and this is what they're saying. You can't test creation,
06:26 you can't test intelligent design. You know we want
06:29 something that can be tested and falsified. And I think we can
06:31 test it and that's what I would like to share with you today.
06:33 You wouldn't teach astronomy from a book that's 25 years old
06:39 because it's just out of date. I was on an airplane, this was a
06:43 red eye into Denver at 2 in the morning and I turned on KOA's
06:47 radio just in time to hear the announcer say Professor you have
06:51 written this book and you say you can now show through
06:53 chemistry and physics there is no God. And I'm going I got to
06:56 get on the radio. I have KOA on my speed dial along with a
06:59 couple other radio stations. So I'm headed home up in the
07:02 mountains, it's almost an hour's drive, and I get on the radio
07:06 and I say professor you know there's two sides to every story
07:09 He's presenting his case on evolution and there's no God
07:12 and yet the announcer is not challenging him or questioning
07:16 him on it. So I get on the radio and I say you know there's two
07:19 sides to every story. I said I read these magazines. I would
07:22 like to paraphrase, I'm on the freeway, I can't read it to you,
07:25 but I would like to paraphrase six quotations from some of the
07:28 scientific magazines. I'd like to be able to talk about them
07:31 after I paraphrase them for you. I had a little chance while I
07:35 was on hold to write a few notes and so I said professor there
07:39 was an article in the Sky and Telescope magazine and the
07:41 headline said how can astronomers keep a straight face
07:44 because to the public they present the idea that evolution
07:47 is a fact and yet they argue over five major areas of the big
07:51 bang. How can they keep a straight face? I said in Sky and
07:55 Telescope magazine of 2001 there was an article where we now know
07:58 and it's proven that the universe is expanding it's
08:01 acceleration of the galaxies like somebody's got their pedal
08:03 on the metal. They're going faster and faster apart every
08:06 day and Sky and Telescope says this violates all standard
08:10 physics. Now the cry is we want the latest science and here
08:13 they're saying this discovery violates physics, right? And
08:16 professor here's an article in Astronomy magazine. They're
08:18 talking about Lauren and Postman These two famous people you read
08:22 about, you hear their names a lot, and they believe it looks
08:26 like, they have discovered a river of galaxies. Here's a
08:30 river of galaxies going that-a- way. What does the article say?
08:33 If this is true, we know less that nothing.
08:35 Everything keeps disproving their previous theories.
08:39 We know less than nothing. Now I know writers like to make a
08:41 good story, right? But it's still interesting reading. We
08:44 know less than nothing if this discovery is true. So I'm
08:47 quoting the different quotations Well about this time the radio
08:52 man, the announcer, comes on and says we have a news break
08:55 coming up, could I remain on the phone. Well of course.
08:57 It's 3 in the morning and I should be sleeping but I'm
09:00 pumped, right? So he comes back on and I say professor I've read
09:07 more than one time where people talking about the super nova
09:12 explosion. We have in our galaxy explosions of stars, we
09:16 can call them explosions. We have the biggest stars, seem
09:19 to be the gas guzzlers, the biggest ones seem to use up
09:22 their fuel and expand like a balloon till they can't expand
09:25 any more and then we get this humongous nuclear eruption and
09:28 it's beautiful. Most of the pictures that we'll see that
09:31 we'll be showing are these exploding super nova eruptions.
09:34 And I said I'm reading a book professor and it says here that
09:37 in this super nova eruption are created all the elements
09:41 necessary for life including oxygen. And I said, professor
09:45 most all science would agree that when you think life arose
09:48 one earth there was no oxygen here, a reducing atmosphere.
09:51 We can't have oxygen. It would oxidize the elements we're
09:54 trying to produce life with. Miller and Nary were trying to
09:56 do that. We're going to get to that in another program. I said
09:58 professor so here they're saying all the elements that are
10:01 necessary for life in super nova eruptions including oxygen yet
10:04 most scientists say life arose on earth with no oxygen.
10:07 Professor, when you get that first living cell what do you
10:09 need; copious amounts of oxygen. And he didn't like that. And he
10:15 says well you just got to stop reading those writings.
10:18 So he didn't have any response, any scientific response.
10:20 He didn't have any response and I think there was about one more
10:23 that I said. Norwood is a noted astrophysicist and Mr. Norwood
10:29 says in his article in his book that we have in our Milky Way
10:33 galaxy a hundred billion stars and we have at least another
10:38 hundred billion galaxies...
10:41 What's a hundred billion times a hundred billion?
10:43 The silent embarrassment to astrophysicists is they cannot
10:47 tell you how even one star formed. I said, professor, can
10:51 you tell me how our sun was formed. Well at this point he
10:55 just started talking over me. I mean, he was trying to sell a
10:59 book, right? And I wasn't helping his sales of his book.
11:01 Good for you.
11:03 I mean, this is Clear Channel, this was KOA, this was nation
11:06 wide, truckers in the middle of the night are driving and I was
11:10 just happy that we were able to challenge some of the garbage
11:15 that's being presented there. So we want science for our
11:17 kids. In 1984 they came out with a new theory of how the moon
11:21 formed. They don't have the first clue of how the moon
11:23 formed. I mean they've got a number of theories and ideas
11:25 about it. So in 1984 we had a new theory getting attention and
11:32 this is an article from Planetary Science Research
11:34 that says the cloud from which the solar system, that's the
11:37 sun's system, formed was composed of gas and gas somehow,
11:41 can we test somehow, we don't know how, somehow, that dusty
11:45 cloud the sun formed in the center of the planets which all
11:48 formed around it, somehow. Can we test that? No we can't.
11:51 We can't test that. But we want to be able... we want solid
11:54 science. Someone told me once, a man who
11:58 was in the book business, he sold books to schools I mean
12:03 and he said that the books that were the most quickly outdated
12:08 are science books. Is that true?
12:10 I think that's probably true, yeah. I'll just share a couple
12:16 quotations with you. This was in U.S. News and Promater was a
12:19 famous astrophysicist and he says the universe is extremely
12:23 complicated and each new item of information we get only shows
12:27 us who much we don't know. We want the latest science but we
12:31 don't know. New things are coming out every day. I think
12:34 the chances that any one of the ideas that are around today are
12:38 slim. See this is a famous Berkley astrophysicist who says
12:42 the chances of any one idea I think are true. We're going to
12:45 probably find out they're wrong. And the big issue over dark
12:48 energy, I know our time is moving along, This is again from
12:51 Promater and he says dark energy is something we have no clue
12:55 as to what's causing it and it doesn't fit any of our current
12:58 physics theories and they have to develop new approaches to
13:02 explain it and so forth. By looking you see at the galaxies
13:06 gravity affects everything in the universe and when they look
13:09 at the density of the galaxies and the rotation of the galaxies
13:12 and they say in order to make this whole thing work there's
13:15 something missing. You know 96 percent of the universe is
13:17 unknowable. We cannot see. There's only about four percent
13:20 they believe. When I read these scientific
13:24 and I know really very little about astronomy, but I do read
13:28 articles, I read scientific journals. For example among
13:33 geologists, we kind of have a tendency to think that geology
13:38 is a science that can be proven and yet geologists, it's all
13:42 theories and there's fighting among themselves which theory
13:47 is correct. For example take carbon dating. Most people
13:51 accept that as something that is a scientific, provable fact
13:56 yet it is a theory. You now when you look at between something
14:00 like that, what goes on with astronomy and the advances that
14:04 we've made... You were showing me the straw, you had that
14:09 straw in your pocket, the straw where you look through and just
14:12 see the little speck, explain that to me for a second because
14:16 that's amazing. Well we'll maybe do another
14:18 program. You know I always like the straw; seems to really get
14:22 people's attention because I ask them do you think you can see
14:25 one star through this little stir stick because people think
14:28 a telescope gets these big pictures of the heavens and
14:30 actually we look at the tiniest little speck. The Hubble looks
14:34 for 10 days back in 19951/25th of one degree of the sky and
14:38 they photographed 3000 galaxies through that little speck of the
14:42 sky. How many? Three thousand galaxies. Three thousand
14:47 galaxies through that one little tiny speck and if you were to
14:51 look at that, how many specks times...?
14:54 You mean how many pictures would I have to take?
14:56 Yeah, how many pictures?
14:57 To take pictures of the whole sky well we've got a real
14:59 problem because today the sun is covering up a bazillion galaxies
15:02 out there because behind the sun is all illuminated in the sky
15:04 and I can't see that part of the sky because the sun is there
15:07 but in six months we'll be on the other side of the sun. Now
15:09 we can see the rest of the universe. We'd have to go to
15:12 Australia too to get the rest of the galaxies. It would be
15:15 27 million pictures through here to cover the whole sky.
15:18 Times at least 3000. Twenty-five thousand.
15:20 Twenty-five thousand galaxies times 100 billion stars so we're
15:26 talking about numbers that none of us could comprehend.
15:29 His ways are as high as the heavens are above the earth.
15:32 Are my ways above your ways as high as the heavens are above
15:35 the earth. Are my thought above your thoughts. My ways are not
15:38 your ways. Because I think sometimes man
15:42 thinks we are so important and you think about what the
15:45 psalmist David said. You know, what is man that you are mindful
15:49 of him? When you think of all the glory of God in all of his
15:53 creation and here on this tiny little speck called earth we're
15:58 these little tiny little specks called man. It's amazing.
16:01 That's Psalm 8, what is man that you are mindful of him.
16:05 And Jesus left that. We're going to have to make this into two
16:10 programs Shelley because... You know Jesus left the glory of
16:14 heaven and the worship of the angels. They're now discovering
16:18 that... They've been looking at a star, HT97048 as a Nova star.
16:22 Scientists have been studying that and they have discovered
16:25 precious diamonds and rubies and gems and sapphires in space and
16:29 and the article says that in this star they have discovered
16:32 there are 100,000 to one million trillion tons of
16:36 diamonds. How do they know that though?
16:38 Well because they look at the carbon, the temperature, the
16:42 pressure and diamonds have a lot of carbon present, the
16:46 the temperature there and so forth. Well what's interesting
16:50 the Bible says that though he was rich yet for our sakes he
16:54 became poor that we through his poverty might become rich. Goes
16:58 right along with priceless gems in space. There's even more but
17:02 I don't have it in front of me. But things have been discovered.
17:05 Lawrence Livermore University has been looking at the sun.
17:09 This was announced in 1987 and it was repeated again more
17:13 recently and they said that every element on earth is
17:18 present on the sun. They could see every element on earth is
17:21 present in the sun. And they have discovered that the sun
17:26 has enough gold to pay the United States national debt five
17:30 hundred million times over. That's amazing. And they've been
17:34 looking at... Of course to mine that gold
17:36 would be our death knell wouldn't it?
17:38 Without the sun we wouldn't even survive.
17:41 But they've been looking at Uranus and Neptune and they say
17:44 the carbon, the temperature and the pressure on those two
17:47 planets, Lawrence Livermore University you remember, and
17:50 they say that there may be 30 percent diamonds on those
17:54 planets, Uranus and Neptune.
17:55 But the whole point of where we're starting, and I'd love for
17:59 you to come back so let's make this two programs, but the whole
18:02 point that we're making today is that here you've got people
18:07 parents crying, we want science for our children, and yet
18:11 science is the one thing that cannot be proven because I mean
18:15 it keeps changing. What they think they're proving changes
18:18 from decade to decade, sometimes year to year, I guess. Whereas
18:24 sometime scientific discoveries actually come in and support
18:29 what the Bible says. Is that not true? Just like archeologists
18:34 who used to say oh we can't find that and now the more we
18:37 discover of archeology there they are.
18:41 Well, yes, you know we have to respect some of what's being
18:46 done. I mean we sent the Cassini space craft to Saturn, a billion
18:51 miles away. But the problem is I think that the universe is so
18:55 big and so far away and we have all these theories about the
18:59 universe. The Cassini is an incredible space craft. It's
19:03 like a school bus. It weighs 12 tons. We don't have a big
19:06 enough rocket to get that a billion miles away to Saturn.
19:10 So what did they do. They shoot it off to Venus. Now it's headed
19:13 towards Venus like a sling shot. It's falling towards Venus and
19:15 gravity of Venus is pulling. But it misses Venus. Like a sling
19:18 shot it picks up speed around Venus, then they shoot it back
19:21 to earth. Now Venus is doing 70,000 miles around the sun,
19:23 earth is doing 66,000 miles. And they aim it back toward earth.
19:26 Now it's falling towards earth but like a sling shot it picks
19:30 up speed back to Venus again picking up speed off to Jupiter
19:33 a half a billion miles away.
19:35 You mean we've achieved this?
19:36 They've achieved this, yes.
19:38 Isn't that amazing what man has achieved.
19:40 Yes and then to Saturn. It takes seven years to get to Saturn
19:43 that's a billion miles away. They fly it through the F and
19:46 and the G rings. They've got a 2500 mile window and they
19:49 fly it there. They reverse it and fire the rockets 96 hours.
19:54 Now it's in orbit about Saturn. OK. So you have to say the God
19:59 who made the laws that they follow. I mean you think of
20:02 just hitting Venus. I mean the earth is doing 66, Venus is
20:04 doing 70,000 miles an hour and we're going to fire our rocket
20:07 on a moving space craft. We're going to hit this one and go
20:10 around there right, you know. It is incredible. It's amazing
20:13 what they've done. So we do need to respect solid science. In the
20:19 process we saved 75 tons of rocket fuel by using gravity
20:22 assist, using the gravity of Venus and earth and Venus and
20:26 Jupiter. We saved 75 tons of rocket fuel because we don't
20:29 have a big enough rocket. I don't know if the Russians have
20:31 a big enough rocket. We don't anyway have a big enough rocket
20:34 to shoot a school bus that far away. So that's incredible stuff
20:37 you know. That is just incredible. How are we doing on
20:41 time? We've got seven minutes left.
20:42 Yes we have a few minutes left if you want to bring something
20:45 else up here. Well again the cry is we want
20:51 science for our kids. The Big Bang cannot answer six profound
20:53 questions. This was in an article in Scientific American
20:59 last year, 2007. They came out with a special feature on the
21:03 of the universe the origin of the universe. So it says in here
21:07 in one of these articles, there are six profound question that
21:10 cannot be answered. The other magazine said five, now we got
21:13 up to six; we're making progress here. Ten years ago we had five
21:17 things but now we've got six. It says in this article the Big
21:22 Bang offers no explanation for this apart from dumb luck.
21:27 I heard someone say it would be like taking a junk yard,
21:32 throwing in a stick of dynamite and thinking that explosion, a
21:36 B-47 designed would be coming out of that.
21:39 Yeah, I think it was Francis Crick that said that evolution
21:43 is like a tornado going through a junk yard and producing a 747.
21:47 You know. The chances, what's the chances of that happening?
21:52 So not here they're saying that the Big Bang cannot explain the
21:56 universe apart from dumb luck. So make a little bit of fun of
22:00 that the kids in school go okay today I want your attention kids
22:03 because today we're going to give you the latest science.
22:07 I'm going to teach you about dumb luck. This is not the first
22:10 time I've read dumb luck. In US News this is at least three
22:14 times I have read where they said you know this is just like
22:18 dumb luck. You know I've read a couple of
22:21 articles and even a book by an atheist who is a scientist and I
22:26 forget his name actually but he was saying that the reason he
22:30 couldn't support certain theories was because that
22:34 would support God. He said I can't prove what I believe but I
22:38 will not support the other because what you're saying
22:41 supports what the Bible says. So there are people out there with
22:45 an agenda as well. We've got to remember that.
22:47 Absolutely, absolutely. I could have brought along a lot of
22:53 things along that line but they're not even bashful about
22:58 admitting it goes against our sexual mores, we can't appeal to
23:04 a miracle. They can't have a miracle. We want solid science.
23:11 So I mentioned before that 96 percent of the universe we can't
23:17 see. It's dark matter. It's unknowable; 96 percent of the
23:21 universe is unknowable. And yet the Bible says in Colossians 2
23:25 verse 3 in him are hid all the treasures of wisdom and
23:27 knowledge. His ways are past finding out. Job 9:9, God's ways
23:32 are past finding out. When you think about people who
23:39 are supporting the Big Bang theory in evolution having five
23:42 major questions a number of years ago that they could not
23:44 agree on, that they couldn't find any solution, and instead
23:48 of reducing it now there's six. So if we had to take away
23:51 because we only have a couple more minutes and I know you
23:54 could quote for quite some time here. We'll pick up on some of
23:57 this that you didn't get in here but if you had a take away
24:01 today what do you say to someone out here who isn't sure that
24:05 they can swallow the idea of a creator God?
24:12 First I'd actually like to promote something, a website.
24:16 There's a dissent from Darwin and this is scientists. They're
24:20 looking for people who would sign their name to a simple
24:25 statement that we don't put any belief or we have serious
24:30 questions about Darwinian evolution. And they have over
24:34 700 scientists now that have signed on.
24:36 These are Ph. D. types.
24:37 These are Ph. D. type scientific people who have signed on and
24:41 they're looking for more. It simply, I think, strengthens our
24:44 case because they say well scientists don't believe this,
24:48 scientists don't believe in evolution. So it's dissent from
24:52 Darwin and you just put your name on a simple signature there
24:55 So that's good. But you're asking what would you say to
24:59 people. Well I think Jeremiah is a good example. Jeremiah 33:22:
25:07 Jeremiah said the stars are like the sands of the seashore,
25:10 innumerable. Like you cannot count the sands of the seashore
25:13 you cannot count the stars of heaven. Well you know that was
25:16 3000 years ago. Scientists are quoting Jeremiah. I've read it
25:19 more than once. Now wait. Three thousand years
25:22 ago they're going they thought that they had counted all the
25:25 stars in the sky didn't they?
25:26 Put Jeremiah in a mental institution. Jeremiah don't you
25:29 read Guinness book where we counted the stars. Don't you
25:33 keep up with science. We know there's 5116 stars in the sky.
25:37 Jeremiah you say like sands of the seashore. Put this guy away
25:40 right? Well scientists today are saying exactly what Jeremiah
25:43 said 3000 years about. Scientists today, and I've read
25:45 it more than once, say they believe that the total number of
25:49 sands on planet earth are roughly 70 sextillion which
25:53 would be like 70 time 10 to the 22nd power. And scientists say
25:58 we think that this is roughly the stars in the known universe.
26:02 This is roughly equivalent to the stars in the known universe.
26:06 This was what Jeremiah said 3000 years ago. What we're
26:09 going to have to do in the next program is show statement after
26:12 statement in the Bible you know that are scientifically accurate
26:16 But actually I see we didn't get even done with showing the
26:20 problems. I have book, 900 pages it's not even written by a
26:24 Christian. The title is Forbidden Archeology and it's 900 pages
26:28 and it shows newspaper clippings from the 1700s and 1800s and
26:33 documenting... A lot of it has to do with coal mines. There'll
26:37 be an article in Pennsylvania in that coal mine they dug up a
26:40 chunk of coal today and there was a gold chain inside or there
26:43 was a hammer inside. They broke apart the coal and out... You
26:46 know here's the imprint of a hammer and what does evolution
26:49 say this was 300 million years ago this coal was made and
26:53 man didn't start melting metal till 3300 years B.C. you know.
26:57 So the bottom line is we're nearly out of time but we're
27:02 going to come back here. The bottom line is if someone has
27:06 not tested the Bible for them self or tested God we want
27:10 to encourage you to do that. All right? Yes that's right.
27:13 I'm so thankful that you have joined us. You know what? It's
27:16 too bad you don't have a little bit of enthusiasm for your topic
27:19 I love it because you just get so excited and you're so
27:23 passionate about this, but thank you so much.
27:26 Well it's exciting stuff you know. How can you not be?
27:29 Amen, amen. We're going to pick right up and you're going to
27:32 come back and we're going to do this again. And then for those
27:36 at home if you don't have complete confidence in the Bible
27:40 yet we hope that by the time you see the next program you'll
27:43 see that there is a creator God. He has a plan for your life and
27:46 it's better than the one you're living. I can tell you. I know
27:49 it's still better than the one I'm living. Thank you so much
27:52 for joining us. We'll see you again.