Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Lizzie Harrison
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000345
00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
00:32 and welcome again to "Issues and Answers".
00:34 You know, if you are in an abusive relationship
00:38 or if you know someone who is in abusive relationship,
00:41 we want you to stay tuned today because this is the program
00:46 where we're going to talk about
00:47 the way out of the abusive relationship.
00:52 And the scripture that came to my mind
00:55 is one of my favorites, it's from Psalm 129:4 that says,
01:00 "The Lord is righteous.
01:02 He has cut me free from the cords
01:03 of the wicked that bound me."
01:06 You know, there is a bond in galliard.
01:08 You may fell trapped by your circumstances
01:11 but God is the answer.
01:13 And God has provided people like
01:15 our guest today Liz Harrison
01:18 who are out there to be a support,
01:21 to help you find solutions for the way out.
01:25 Liz, we're so thankful that you are coming back to us today.
01:29 Now your ministry is Harrison Referral Services
01:34 and you work with abused, the victims and abusers.
01:38 Tell us a little bit about what you do.
01:40 Well, what we do is, we just offer support
01:42 and referrals to women and children
01:45 and also men that are going through domestic violence
01:47 or displaced due to the abuse.
01:50 We just help supply toiletries
01:53 and we help with our referral services to shelters.
01:56 We also help with toiletries,
01:58 food and clothing and spiritual counseling.
02:01 Now, you know, my husband had been counseling
02:04 or actually praying with a woman
02:06 for quite some time who was counseling
02:08 with a woman who is in abuse.
02:10 And he referred her to you in St. Louis.
02:12 Yes, that's correct.
02:13 And he said, man, that Liz gets things done.
02:17 She took care of things in a hurry.
02:19 But the encouragement about that--
02:21 I know your hearts dream is to have a sinner--shelter.
02:26 Yes, that's correct, yes.
02:27 But right now Harrison Referral Services out
02:32 in St. Louis, Missouri, you're taking advantage,
02:35 you were an abused spouse and from your own experience
02:41 you learned where there are some help
02:43 and you have come and put this ministry together
02:46 to help other women and just use
02:49 what's available to them out there.
02:51 Because sometimes when someone is going through this
02:53 whether it's man or woman they don't know where to turn.
02:56 But let's talk about what kinds of support
03:01 and solutions there are because trust me
03:05 as vast is our viewing and listening audience
03:09 you're gonna be ministering to someone today
03:11 whose is in that situation.
03:13 What types of solutions are available to people
03:16 who are trapped?
03:18 Well, I would suggest to let them know
03:20 that there are different organizations out there
03:22 that's available including Harrison Referral Services
03:25 that help assist with domestic violence.
03:27 They can get support and referrals
03:30 by calling hotline numbers.
03:32 Let them know what their situation is and--
03:35 And what are the hotline numbers?
03:36 I mean, how-- what if somebody saying,
03:38 what hotline?
03:39 How do they go about in the very beginning?
03:41 Let's say that I'm being abused
03:43 and I've been cut off and, I'm in a very controlled situation.
03:47 How do I even know where to turn first?
03:49 Do I call the police for hotline number?
03:51 What do I do to even find out the hotline number?
03:53 Well, there's many ways you can.
03:54 You can call the police and they will give you hotline numbers.
03:58 If you have access to the internet you can go online
04:01 and put in hotline numbers for domestic violence.
04:04 You can also go into phonebook.
04:06 You can actually look into phonebook
04:08 for hotline numbers as well.
04:10 There's also a 211 number that you can dial
04:13 for community services where they will hook you up--
04:16 you know, refer you to other domestic violence shelters
04:19 and help as well.
04:20 And I'm sure that wherever people are watching
04:22 from around the world there's something somewhere
04:26 that these various organizations that exist to help and assist,
04:32 provide solutions for people in these problems.
04:34 Yes, that's correct. Okay.
04:35 Now kind of support is available?
04:39 Well, the support that's available that, you know,
04:42 when you call the hotline number
04:43 and they bring you in they help,
04:46 you know, find out what your situation is to help,
04:48 you know, you start to rebuild and to restore from there.
04:51 They will help with your children
04:52 if you're flaying domestic violence with your children.
04:55 They will bring the children
04:56 and counsel the children, counsel you.
04:59 They will help you in getting restored back in a new home.
05:02 They also help with job placement,
05:05 any type of skills that you need of that sort.
05:07 Some training? Yes.
05:08 It's wonderful.
05:09 And it should be that and I know one of your--
05:14 the things that you do when you go out
05:15 and give conferences and seminars
05:18 is that you're trying to teach the churches
05:20 to have this kind of information on hand
05:22 and be prepared to be part of that solution
05:27 to have those numbers that they can refer them to.
05:29 So if someone doesn't want to call the police
05:31 because they are afraid that if the police got involved
05:35 that they might come out to their home
05:37 then we could recommend that they would call a church?
05:40 Yes, that's true.
05:42 We're really trying to get the church more educated
05:44 on domestic violence to be more of a support system for victims.
05:47 Because we have people that just come off the street
05:49 and walk inside your church and we've had it done
05:52 in our churches as well, they needed help
05:54 with domestic violence and the pastors were able
05:56 to call me to help the woman get into safe havens and shelters.
06:00 But we do want to make sure that we're able to help
06:03 in the church with having those--the information
06:05 on hand to help the people with domestic violence.
06:09 Yes, we want to make sure we have lot's of resources
06:11 for them, nourishments, spiritual guidance
06:14 and to transfer them to where they are at
06:16 and to a safe location so that send them back
06:19 into the abusive home.
06:20 Now suppose that we've got people probably
06:23 watching--there's all levels of violence,
06:26 there's all levels of abuse I should have said
06:29 that maybe hasn't escalated into true violence
06:32 but they have recognized some of the warning signs
06:34 and they are fearful.
06:36 What are their options if they are not calling for shelter?
06:40 If you call the hotlines or if you go to someone--
06:44 what are the options-- who can we turn to for help
06:48 if we might say, you know, I'm not being physical abused
06:53 but the verbal abuse, the mental abuse
06:56 is getting really bad and I recognize it
06:58 and I know it's not healthy for me or my children.
07:01 Where do they turn?
07:03 Well, they have a family counseling that's available
07:05 out where you can call the counselor
07:08 if you're not really trying to get into shelter or anything.
07:10 We do have services where you can get referrals
07:14 and help for counseling for you and the children.
07:16 Just to kind of see where you're at
07:17 and what you want to do in a situation that you're in.
07:23 They will help you recognize something's
07:26 that you might not see in a relationship
07:29 or the marriage and then they work with to see
07:31 what they can do to help to get you move
07:33 in towards a better direction,
07:36 more healthier direction in a relationship.
07:39 There are counseling agencies that's available
07:41 for the family as well.
07:43 Liz, when you were in your marriage
07:46 your husband was first verbally abusive
07:49 then emotionally, mentally abusive to you
07:52 and it escalated to the domestic violence
07:55 where he really became physically abusive.
07:59 What steps did you take to get yourself out?
08:03 Well, to be honest with you it was so strange
08:05 because we get these South Side Journal newspapers
08:08 that they throw out every week.
08:10 They're free newspapers and one day I just happened
08:11 pickup one and I look then
08:14 and they have resource section in there
08:17 and it just say, women support.
08:19 So I just thought I'll call the number.
08:20 I didn't know it was for domestic violence.
08:22 I was just looking for sometime of help
08:23 to someone to talk to about my situation.
08:27 And when I called the number they were actually
08:29 a domestic violence support center.
08:32 I checked myself in there for counseling.
08:35 I checked my children there
08:36 and so me and my children were going together
08:38 on a weekly basis.
08:41 And they helped me and my family
08:43 to start the transaction of moving towards
08:46 a more healthier lifestyle and more healthier situation
08:49 to get out of the abusive marriage.
08:51 We really needed the counseling.
08:53 My children--I have learned so much from the counseling
08:55 and still to this day it still affects them
08:57 but they are doing pretty good.
08:59 That's wonderful.
09:01 Because I'm just thinking that they are people
09:04 maybe that our church members and we know that, you know,
09:06 this is a problem that exists far beyond.
09:10 I mean, it's not-- once you're inside
09:12 the church walls it doesn't keep that problem out,
09:14 maybe it's masked as we've discussed
09:17 before that it's something that
09:18 is always brought out to the open.
09:20 But there are people who say,
09:22 who do I turn to in the church?
09:24 What would you recommend there?
09:26 I mean, you want to just talk to anyone about this.
09:28 That's true, you just don't want to talk to anyone
09:29 because that's not healthy.
09:31 That 'cause a lot of times when you get to talk
09:34 to anyone those individuals might be close friends
09:38 or family members with the abuser
09:40 that you might not know anything about.
09:42 So it's best to take it to the pastor first
09:46 or the pastors wife or both of them together
09:48 and let them know what's going on.
09:51 And the pastor might know someone in the church
09:55 that might be able to help and assist in that area.
09:57 And the church-- the pastor will lead
09:59 and guide wherever they are able to
10:03 but they are also will connect you with someone
10:05 that's in the church that might be a more better of support
10:08 and they will work together as a team to make sure
10:11 that the situation is worked on to--
10:14 you know, get forced to resolving it so.
10:16 You know, they can do that.
10:17 It will be somebody inside the church we're hoping that.
10:20 That's why we're trying to get the church to be
10:22 more educated on domestic violence,
10:24 to try to get someone in each church
10:27 that are educated on domestic violence
10:28 so when those issues come up the pastor
10:30 and his wife will not just alone in the situation,
10:33 they lead and guide them to someone else in the church
10:36 so that they can have support.
10:37 Let's say that someone's watching and their spouse
10:42 has real anger management issues
10:45 and they--that's the way they control.
10:49 In other words, if they get really angry,
10:52 I mean, if anything obsessive
10:54 they are just going to go fly into a rage
10:56 and that is a type of control mechanism.
11:00 So sometimes it's just better if you're not--
11:05 would it be better and I should frame this as a question.
11:08 If I know this person is being controlling my behavior
11:11 because of rage, would it be best to say okay?
11:16 He's not really physically abusing me
11:20 or mentally abusing me, well, that's mental abuse.
11:23 Let's say, he's not physically abuse me.
11:26 Should I just try to get my spouse help
11:30 to get them into rage management?
11:33 How do you or anger management,
11:35 how do you draw the boundaries?
11:37 I guess that's what I'm trying to ask you.
11:39 You know, 'cause it recurs me that,
11:41 there's so many dysfunctional marriages out there
11:44 and there's people who probably see warning signs
11:48 but how do you best set boundaries
11:53 to where you say to your spouse be it male or female
11:57 this is not acceptable behavior.
12:01 You've got to get help for this.
12:04 What do you suggest their?
12:06 Well, I would suggest that you would speak with them
12:10 and to let them know that you love them enough
12:12 to come to them and let them know that,
12:14 that it is unacceptable behavior.
12:18 And no one shall accept domestic violence or abuse.
12:21 And we shall try to help guide them into getting the help.
12:24 It's okay to find the numbers
12:26 and call the agencies to get the support
12:28 but it's gonna be up to the abuser
12:30 him or herself to get themselves
12:33 checked into the anger management class.
12:36 We can suggest, we can open doors,
12:38 we can make phone calls but the abuser him or herself
12:41 is the one that's gonna really have to make the call,
12:43 really have to get themselves checked in.
12:45 But first of all this is like if you're drug addict
12:48 or alcoholic you have to first recognize
12:50 that you do have a problem that you're an alcoholic,
12:52 that you're a drug addict and once you can do that
12:55 then you're able to seek the help.
12:57 But you're in denial and live in a denial
13:00 that you're abusive than it won't do any good.
13:02 But we can help to suggest and to lead
13:05 and guide to help support.
13:07 We're getting them into--get them the anger management
13:09 help that they need.
13:11 You know, it just occurred to me you're not a licensed counselor.
13:14 You know, that wasn't your educational background
13:19 but you learned through experience
13:21 and experience can be--
13:24 The best education. The best education, definitely.
13:27 One thing we know is you do learn
13:29 when you go through it.
13:31 It can be a hard lesson but you learned.
13:33 So what if someone else has gone through this
13:37 or they just have a tender spot because maybe
13:41 their brother or sister or maybe even their parent
13:44 has gone through this.
13:46 How can we as a church body or people
13:50 who are watching can we be a support to someone
13:52 who is going through this?
13:54 Yes, we can. We can be a big support to them.
13:58 We can be nourishment for them. We can be a lifeline for them.
14:03 In my opinion I think its best not to scorn
14:08 or not to say, well, you know, you should do this
14:10 or you should get out of this relationship.
14:12 I told you not to marry that that no good person.
14:13 Yes, exactly.
14:15 They don't want to hear I told you so,
14:17 is because they already know this.
14:19 They are looking for a lifeline.
14:20 It's looking for someone not to judge them,
14:22 someone just to support them.
14:24 And a lot of times they don't leave right away
14:26 but that doesn't mean that we walk out on them
14:28 and that we leave them.
14:29 We stay there to be their support.
14:31 So when they do get this strength restrain
14:32 to finally walk away and leave.
14:34 You still want to be there for them.
14:36 Because if we walk away and leave them
14:38 because they are moving the way we think
14:40 that they should or they are not reacting
14:42 as fast as we think they should.
14:43 A lot of times they will stay with the abuser
14:45 because they feel that they have no one else anyway.
14:49 And we could be a very much support just by listening,
14:54 just by prayer, just by hugging them
14:57 and supporting them and you know,
14:59 trying to actually look for help for them as well.
15:01 Just be a support system for them, not to judge them,
15:04 not to say I told you so, not to say,
15:07 you know, if you would have did
15:08 what I told you do this wouldn't have happened.
15:10 Because you know, we have to let people walk
15:13 their own road in life and even in their relationships as well.
15:16 Boy, this is such a difficult thing
15:18 because I'm sitting here,
15:19 there's so many thoughts going through my mind
15:20 if I can articulate them but.
15:23 Let's say that someone's in the situation
15:26 and I'm trying to be a support, I've to really be careful
15:29 how I support them because I could actually do something
15:32 that may give them advice
15:34 that would endanger them is that true?
15:36 Yes, we want to make sure that first we pray
15:39 and that we make sure that before we speak
15:41 we're giving the right healthy, spiritual,
15:44 safe information as possible.
15:47 We don't want to say, well, you know,
15:48 just pack up and leave,
15:49 but there's ways to pack and leave.
15:51 There's a safe way to pack up and leave
15:53 and there's a dangerous way to pack up and leave.
15:55 You want to give them healthy information to say,
15:57 you know, well, if you need to get
15:59 all your information together,
16:01 you know, you can meet me here
16:02 or I'll help you get to your next destination.
16:04 You want to make sure when you giving them advice
16:06 that is healthy advice, its safe advice,
16:09 not what you would just suggested
16:11 and you think they would do it.
16:12 It's not that easy to just walk out and leave.
16:15 You can't tell the abuser that you're leaving
16:16 because they could kill you, take your life there,
16:20 you have to plan a safe way of escape.
16:22 So before we want to talk to someone else
16:24 about getting him out of there
16:26 we need to make sure we pray
16:27 and make sure that we have some good information
16:29 on how to plan a safe escape.
16:31 So basically then it would be good
16:33 if you're trying to be a support system
16:35 to someone to educate yourself.
16:37 To call the hotline yourself and say,
16:39 I've a friend or sister or brother--
16:42 so I need to know what's the best type of advice
16:45 to give them, right.
16:46 Now let me ask you another question
16:48 because when we're talking about being a support
16:50 I know that doctors in hospitals if they suspect child abuse
16:55 they are required by law to report that.
16:58 What do you do when you're in a church
17:02 or in a situation where you really suspect
17:06 that children are being abused but you may recognize that--
17:09 let's say in this case its the wife
17:10 that's maybe a battered wife
17:12 and she's got that battered wife syndrome
17:15 and she's not recognizing it or she's not in a mental state
17:20 to be able to take the next move,
17:23 I mean, she's so beaten down
17:26 that she doesn't know what to do.
17:28 If you suspect child abuse what should you do?
17:31 Well, I would suggest not that just go out
17:33 and just you know, just report it
17:37 without talking to the individual first.
17:39 I mean, we can do that
17:41 but then also to we have to understand
17:43 what the victim going through as well.
17:46 The mother if that's the victim--
17:50 we don't know what's going on in the home.
17:51 We don't know how serious the abuse is.
17:55 You know, the police can come by
17:57 or the family service come by and they take off the abuser
18:00 and automatically take her life
18:01 and the children for calling someone.
18:04 And lot of times the victim might not have
18:06 known anything about the call.
18:09 So we have to make sure that we're doing that--
18:12 that has a lot to do with health as well.
18:13 We have to make sure that we let them know
18:15 that we recognize what's going on
18:17 and to try to help them get out of it.
18:19 But we let them know that we will report it
18:22 but you have to make sure to that the abuser
18:24 is not aware of what's going on
18:26 because if you do you can actually call us.
18:29 By helping you can also hinder at the same time.
18:32 So we really have to make sure
18:34 what we're doing is safe for the individual.
18:37 And lot of times we're doing a good deed
18:40 but at the same time it can cost someone their lives.
18:42 So in your training you have been taught
18:43 that if someone really suspects child abuse
18:46 rather than just calling child protective services
18:49 that you go talk with the victim
18:52 and either the children or--endure the mother
18:55 first before you call them in.
18:58 Yes, and a lot of times
19:00 and we're not saying that that's the only way to do it
19:02 because sometimes we do just have to step in.
19:04 We do have to bypass all of that.
19:06 But if we know that there's not any abuse going on
19:08 we could kind of talk to the parent to find out.
19:12 You know, you can get around find if there's any abuse
19:14 or any thing going on in a house.
19:16 And you would know okay, I can call the hotline
19:18 and let them take care.
19:19 But if you know that there's domestic violence
19:21 and abuse going on you might want to take a different route
19:24 because the abusive can snap
19:25 and actually take the lives of the family.
19:28 It sounds so frightening.
19:30 But then the main point is for today
19:32 is that there are solutions out there.
19:35 There's plenty of government agencies,
19:37 there's church agencies, turn to a trusted friend
19:40 or mentor or some maybe even somebody at work
19:43 that you really trust.
19:45 Now we do want to emphasize again,
19:47 don't just turn to anybody and everybody--
19:50 maybe at church somebody that could be
19:51 or in your personal circle because someone,
19:56 if they don't know want to do,
19:57 if they don't have any kind of training themselves
19:59 they may just go tell someone else to someone else
20:02 that he gets back to the abuser
20:04 and then you find yourself in a--
20:06 Yeah, what we wan to do is--
20:07 that's why I'm encouraging
20:09 that the pastors of all denomination of churches,
20:12 start having workshops and seminars
20:15 and educational programs on domestic violence.
20:19 So that we know the best way to go about dealing
20:21 with the situation.
20:23 And that's why I'm looking to travel more
20:26 to get around, to do more workshops
20:28 and more seminars and things of that sort.
20:31 We teach on teen dating and domestic violence
20:33 and things of that sort.
20:34 So we're really trying to get in the church
20:36 as to educate them on how to do it.
20:38 They could find someone in the church
20:39 that will love to etake on that leadership position
20:43 on domestic violence to help with that certain issues.
20:45 So we want to educate first
20:47 because you just can't just do it.
20:49 You have to be educated on the safe way
20:52 and then there's you know, unsafe way of happening.
20:56 So we want to make sure we're doing everything
20:58 the safe way and put the victim and the family
21:01 in the best interest of making sure they are safe.
21:03 You know, I can see why you said you want to start
21:05 with prayer because it takes a lot of wisdom and discernment.
21:08 But I also want to encourage anyone
21:11 who is in the situation.
21:13 If you start with prayer
21:14 and ask God to help provide a solution
21:16 'cause He will provide the way out,
21:19 that's something that He promises
21:21 and He will show you to whom
21:23 you might turn to find that kind of help.
21:26 And you know, we want to talk about support
21:29 for the abuser as well because we don't,
21:32 you know, again with the audience this size,
21:36 there maybe someone hearing you know
21:38 that you're doing things wrong
21:40 and there is support for the abuser.
21:43 We need to get them into some type of
21:46 whether it's anger management or just getting counseling,
21:49 family counseling, maybe they have got wounds
21:53 from their past that haven't been healed
21:56 and they just need to go and have good counseling,
21:58 good Christian counseling and come to the Lord.
22:01 We want to make sure that the abuser know
22:04 that we--we're not just here for the victim
22:06 we also want to help the abuser.
22:08 And if the abuser wants to be helped
22:10 there has to be another thing to.
22:11 The abuser has to want the help,
22:14 want to help, you know.
22:16 We will help the abuser get into anger management.
22:19 We will help them with counseling
22:20 and we want to make sure as a church, as a body,
22:22 and as a whole that we start the--counseling
22:25 in the house of the Lord as well as extending out
22:27 to different organizations.
22:29 We want to bond with the abuser
22:30 to let him or her know that we love you,
22:32 we are just really concerned about
22:34 how you are treating your sister or brother
22:36 that we all are the body of Christ
22:38 and that we should love one another and not harm
22:40 and to hurt one another.
22:42 And that we are not just putting a,
22:44 you know, putting our foots or I could say
22:46 our phone or net basically saying that,
22:48 you know, we don't care about you
22:50 we really care about the victim.
22:51 We do care about the abuser as well.
22:54 You know, we want to give them the help and you know,
22:56 its--it's a lot of men and women or victims of abuse
23:01 and they are abusers themselves.
23:02 They have gotten counseling in anger management
23:05 and come to terms with that they aren't abuse
23:07 and they do need to help
23:08 and they have them changed in Christ Jesus and you know.
23:11 And I think that's-- that's the big secret there
23:14 is that some, many times any one
23:16 who is doing this just doesn't have a personal relationship
23:20 with the Lord Jesus Christ.
23:21 Yes, you have to have a personal relationship.
23:22 They haven't surrender control to Him yet.
23:26 And they don't know that you know that--
23:29 that's such a dichotomy in this next statement
23:32 that I am going to say that there is power in surrender,
23:36 because when we surrender control
23:38 of our lives to the Lord,
23:41 He exchanges His strength for ours.
23:43 He, you know, as He said in 2 Corinthians 12:9
23:47 Jesus said "My grace is sufficient for you,
23:50 for my power is made perfect in weakness."
23:54 And He promises to make us new creations in Christ Jesus.
23:59 And that's the beauty.
24:00 And, you know, it doesn't matter
24:02 who you are or how bad it might be
24:04 and you may be in this case the one
24:06 who is the abuser but remember this.
24:11 Romans 5:8 says that, God manifested His love,
24:16 demonstrated His love in this way that
24:19 "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
24:22 And if he could send His Son to die for us as sinners
24:26 how much more will He do once we accepted Him as our Savior.
24:30 Yes, that is true.
24:31 So that's the greatest hope I guess
24:33 that we want to leave for the one
24:35 who is being the abuser himself
24:39 is that God is the God of new beginning.
24:42 Yes, He is.
24:43 And His mercies are new every morning.
24:46 So what is in your personal experience--
24:49 we have just a couple of minutes left.
24:51 What's probably been the most difficult thing
24:54 that you have to deal with Harrison Referral Services
24:57 that you are working there in St. Louis?
25:00 Well we had a--to make longer story short
25:03 we had a young lady that was actually shot by her abuser.
25:07 She actually married him a couple of weeks later.
25:10 After she was shot? Yes, after she was shot.
25:12 I visited her in a hospital and to watch her go back,
25:16 she actually married him.
25:18 And to this day it's just really was hard to connect
25:22 with her from there.
25:23 It was like when she married him,
25:25 he is like she shed everybody out.
25:27 Another young lady also too she is been abused
25:30 on a daily basis and she just was release
25:33 from the hospital few weeks ago
25:35 and she is right back with abuser again
25:39 and that's the hard thing Harrison Referral Services
25:41 is just seeing the woman that you have counseled,
25:43 the woman that you supported and to watch them go back.
25:46 It doesn't mean that all of them are gonna stay out
25:50 of their abusive relationship, but the hard part is
25:52 watching them go back.
25:54 You know, you said something and all have--
25:55 if you can tell me this in a minute.
25:57 You made a comment as we were talking
25:59 before the program
26:00 that when you left the abusive relationship
26:04 the most difficult thing you thought you fell like
26:06 you could forgive your ex-husband
26:08 but you had a difficult time for giving yourself.
26:11 Yes, first I had to forgive myself first
26:14 before I can forgive the abuser.
26:16 Because if you don't you are gonna be bitter
26:18 and I found out that it calls to be bitter
26:21 and I had to recognize through Christ
26:22 that He let me know there first I Have forgiven you already
26:26 and you have to forgive yourself
26:28 before you could forgive the abuser.
26:30 So the Lord let you know, that He had forgiven you.
26:33 It's interesting because, you know, I wouldn't think
26:35 of the victim thinking that I need to forgive myself
26:38 so you had to forgive yourself because you stayed.
26:41 Because I have stayed in abusive relationship
26:42 for so long and do it for so long.
26:44 And that you exposed your children.
26:46 Yes, exactly
26:47 And you know that's-- that's very important
26:50 because 2 Corinthians 3:18
26:53 essentially to paraphrase it says,
26:55 we become who we behold and if you allow your children
26:58 to grow up in an abusive relationship
27:00 in seeing this guess what?
27:02 They will become abusers themselves.
27:04 Yes, that's correct.
27:05 That's what happens so often not at all--
27:07 I mean we can't say that's for certain,
27:08 but that's they will either become a victim or a abuser.
27:14 Liz Harrison, thank you so much for joining us again.
27:17 We have appreciated these programs.
27:19 Thank you so much.
27:20 And I really believe that some one out there
27:24 this program has touched your heart,
27:25 you know that you even need to stand up
27:27 and be part of the solution in your church
27:30 to reach out into your community
27:32 or may be your are someone that's looking for that support.
27:35 There is support, reach out
27:36 because the Lord doesn't want you to live like this.
27:40 He wants you He is the God of all peace
27:43 and He is a God of hope.
27:44 And Romans 15:13 says that,
27:47 "He will fill you to overflowing with hope
27:50 by the power of His Holy Spirit".
27:52 Thanks for joining us.