Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Martin Weber
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000323
00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
00:32 and welcome again to "Issues and Answers."
00:34 We are so happy to have you joining us from around the world
00:37 whether you are watching on television,
00:39 on the internet or listening by radio.
00:42 Today, our issue is going to be
00:45 how to keep children in the church.
00:47 Now, we've discussed this a couple of times before,
00:49 so don't tune out if you think you have seen this already
00:52 because what we are going to be talking about today
00:55 is rather surprising actually to some of you,
00:58 and that is if you teach our children
01:00 to really celebrate the Sabbath,
01:02 this can keep them in church.
01:04 You, know God said to us in Isaiah 58:13,
01:08 I'm going to begin with scripture here.
01:12 He says "That if we will call the Sabbath a delight,
01:17 a holy day, honorable day", and then going on verse 14,
01:23 he says "If we are finding a joy in him on the Sabbath,
01:27 he says, then will you delight yourself in the Lord,
01:31 and I will make you to ride on the high places."
01:34 God wants us to learn
01:37 what the true meaning of Sabbath is
01:39 and believe it or not,
01:41 hope you will by the end of this program.
01:43 If you learn how to really celebrate God's Sabbath,
01:47 this can keep your children in the church.
01:49 Help me to welcome back our special guest
01:52 and that's Martin Weber.
01:53 Martin, we are so glad that you are joining us again.
01:55 All right, I feel like at home here.
01:56 Oh good, that's what we want you to feel.
01:59 Now, we are-- let me say
02:01 if I can remember everything that you do or have done.
02:04 You are the editor for the Outlook magazine,
02:06 you are the communications director
02:08 for the Mid-America region
02:09 of the Seventh-day Adventists church,
02:12 churches you have been a pastor in the past
02:14 and army chaplain, not army, but a police.
02:18 Police, police chaplain.
02:19 Law enforcement, Police chaplain
02:21 and you are married, you are father of two children,
02:25 so you've got a resume this long,
02:27 but more importantly you have recently been working
02:30 on your doctorial studies, just completed those
02:33 and your focus was on attrition in the church
02:37 and how to keep children in the church.
02:39 So this is just a fascinating, we had a couple of programs
02:43 that we've already talked about this
02:45 but how does the Sabbath make such an impact
02:50 as to keep our children in the church.
02:52 It's either a make or break experience,
02:55 the Sabbath, the Sabbath can either be
02:57 a great blessing if we look it at as Jesus did
03:01 or it can be a tremendous curse.
03:03 If we look it as the Pharisees. Yeah, exactly.
03:06 And, you know, I got in trouble
03:08 with the Pharisees one time. I did.
03:10 You know, back in Jesus' day,
03:13 the temple police they were the agents of the Pharisees
03:17 and they blew the whistle on Jesus
03:20 again and again and they blew the whistle on me one Sabbath.
03:22 Well, because they thought you are doing
03:24 something that shouldn't be done.
03:25 It wasn't a good day for me. Oh, okay.
03:27 I was there in Jerusalem in my favorite place
03:30 there is at the Western Wall,
03:31 sometimes called the Wailing Wall.
03:33 And, and the day began.
03:35 So you literally got in trouble with the Pharisees. Yeah, I did.
03:38 I thought you were making, you know, okay.
03:41 No, no, I was in trouble, big trouble.
03:43 It started when I just went down to the wall,
03:45 you know, you might have little prayer request
03:47 and then stick it in the wall.
03:48 Well, I was so in wonder about the place,
03:53 that I forgot that it's the women over here
03:56 and the men are over there, so I was just in awe
03:59 walking down to one of this place
04:02 and I saw these men with horror,
04:05 you know, these police chasing,
04:06 chasing me away from there and I finally realized,
04:11 you know, before I just got to the wall,
04:13 that I was defiling it by going, yeah.
04:15 But, that was just the beginning of the problem
04:18 because when the sun went down.
04:23 As the sun is about to go down, you know, Friday evening.
04:26 It's a place of grand celebration
04:28 and different groups come as one
04:30 absolute one of the most fascinating sites
04:32 you could see-- This is the close of the Sabbath there.
04:34 Well, both the opening and the closing both,
04:36 and I think particularly of the opening one,
04:40 I was, there is a place, a stone wall.
04:43 Yours truly, can sit toward the back
04:44 and watch the whole thing of what's going on,
04:46 a stone bench, facing the wall.
04:49 So I was listening to some messianic praise music,
04:53 you know, it's about Jesus, Messiah based Jewish.
04:56 And so I was sitting there
04:58 listening to this music on my walkman.
05:01 This is a few years ago with a little cassette, the walkman
05:04 and just enjoying the whole scene
05:07 when all off a sudden these guys in blue uniforms
05:09 came along, the temple police
05:11 and they pointed at me and they said stop that
05:15 and they pointed to my walkman, I turned it off.
05:19 You see I was, I was making the batteries work,
05:22 I was working on the Sabbath through the batteries,
05:25 so I turned it off and took the thing off my head
05:28 and they went away
05:29 and then a young woman sitting next to me,
05:34 said, "Do you know what you did wrong?"
05:37 And she was from Yeshiva,
05:39 I think, you know, one of the conservative schools
05:41 and so she wanted to make it a learning point for me.
05:44 And so she said, "Do you know what you did wrong?"
05:46 I said, well, you know I came here to have a good time.
05:48 I didn't come here to get in trouble
05:50 or getting anyone else in trouble
05:52 but that I think so but you tell me.
05:55 She said, well you made
05:58 the machine work on your Sabbath.
06:00 I said oh and you know I was over at the hotel there
06:03 and they have Shabbat elevators,
06:05 Sabbath elevators that work on the Sabbath,
06:08 do the same thing my walkman was doing
06:10 and I said I understand that sometimes
06:12 people get hired to turn light on and off on the Sabbath
06:16 so I said why isn't that wrong.
06:18 If my walkman is wrong, why, you know,
06:21 why would you even pay people to turn lights on or off,
06:26 is that not breaking the Sabbath too.
06:29 So the whole point that you are making here,
06:31 we knew literally when you said
06:32 you got trouble with the Pharisees,
06:34 I thought there was somebody in your church
06:36 that you were thinking of being as pharisaical but this.
06:38 Well, that too, that too.
06:40 But what we are talking about today is
06:45 we are going to contrast this attitude
06:48 of legalistic Sabbath keeping
06:52 to the idea of what God meant,
06:55 Sabbath as a day of relationship with Him,
06:58 with the family and with Him
07:00 and a real true celebration and rest in Him.
07:04 And how when we teach our children
07:07 how to really enjoy the stay
07:10 and make it a delightful day
07:12 that this is something
07:13 that will increase their retention in the church.
07:17 Absolutely, there are two extremes,
07:19 there is one extreme we just talked about
07:20 the legalistic 24-hour tightrope
07:23 stretched across the end of the week,
07:24 you know, get into little more of that in a moment.
07:29 But there is the other extreme
07:30 where you just the Sabbath
07:31 is sort of like a-- it's a little bit different
07:35 but not a lot different, and now of course,
07:38 we--those who are Seventh-day Adventists,
07:40 we were Seventh-day Adventists
07:41 see it in scriptures as a 24-hour experience,
07:44 it's not just two hours between mowing the lawn
07:47 and watching the ball game, you know. Yeah, right.
07:49 So it's a 24 hour experience
07:52 and to go back to the Garden of Eden
07:55 way back at the beginning God made the world
07:59 and then He rested not just for Himself
08:02 and not because He was tired off,
08:03 you see this is God, who spoke the words,
08:07 but He was inviting Adam and Eve
08:10 to celebrate with Him His accomplished works.
08:13 So the Sabbath is a celebration in entering
08:17 the identifying ourselves joyfully
08:21 with a finished work of God. Amen, amen.
08:26 And so and so, that defines what Sabbath is.
08:30 You know, and its interesting
08:31 that we want to kind of establish
08:33 this particularly for those of you
08:35 who many not be that familiar with the Sabbath topic,
08:38 is that God sanctified the seventh day.
08:42 He set it apart, He called it holy.
08:45 It wasn't Wednesday, it wasn't Thursday,
08:47 He sanctified this Saturday, the Sabbath and--
08:51 Let me pounce in there on that work sanctify.
08:54 That word sanctify is much misunderstood.
08:58 It means exactly what you said it means,
09:00 it mean to set apart. Right.
09:02 Sometimes we look at the word sanctify,
09:04 it can be a scary word.
09:05 Like are you sanctified or are you holy?
09:09 Now the word sanctify and holy,
09:11 I'm no Greek scholar or Hebrew scholar
09:13 but in both languages the words have common roots
09:17 and simply being set apart for God.
09:20 Amen. And it's kind of like.
09:21 Which is what they root to,
09:22 that's what the definition of holy is.
09:24 Yeah, same thing, yeah, sanctify and holy same thing.
09:27 Just kind off like in a marriage
09:29 when two people are set apart
09:32 or literally sanctified from the rest of the world,
09:35 every other woman or man on earth,
09:37 for each other, for this relationship together,
09:41 so sanctify is its not like a Clorox word or you know.
09:45 It's a beautiful word.
09:46 Yeah, it's a perfume, it's relational. Amen, amen.
09:50 And the point that I wanted to make though for our viewers
09:53 who might not be that familiar with a Sabbath
09:55 is that it wasn't a Jewish, the seventh-day Sabbath
10:00 wasn't a Jewish tradition,
10:02 it wasn't something that God just spoke to the Jews.
10:05 He had previously,
10:07 He instituted it in the Garden of Eden
10:10 just as He instituted the relationship of marriage,
10:14 and it was a very special day to have relationship with Him
10:19 and as you said to not be legalistic
10:22 but to intimate to this time
10:25 of celebrating His accomplished works.
10:28 Yeah, yeah, the Sabbath and marriage
10:30 with the family, marriage and the family
10:32 are like two flowers plucked from the Garden of Eden
10:35 that are still here for us today.
10:36 And I think Satan has done his very best to destroy both.
10:41 We all know what he's done for a marriage and a home,
10:44 but also about the Sabbath
10:47 to either destroy by making it a great burden
10:52 or destroy it by causing it to be seen as
10:54 something you can just ignore
10:56 instead of set aside, instead of setting apart,
10:59 just set aside, leave it away, you know.
11:01 Now, interestingly for your doctorial studies,
11:04 what you did was you surveyed pastors and you were talking
11:11 specifically with pastors and questioning,
11:13 they were answering,
11:14 answering 111 questions on your questionnaire.
11:17 These were pastors who had grown children
11:19 some who had left the church
11:22 and others who were still in the church
11:24 and what you learned was that
11:27 the way in which they treated the Sabbath
11:30 was one of the determining factors,
11:33 one of the influencers on whether or not
11:36 their children remained in the church
11:39 after they became adults.
11:41 So what was some--
11:44 for those who had really positive
11:46 how did they celebrate the Sabbath?
11:48 Yeah, they made it a family experience.
11:51 Now, Sabbath for pastors
11:54 is kind of like meal time for mother to cook, you know.
11:57 It's a very busy time
11:59 and so it can be quite a challenge for pastors
12:03 on the Sabbath to be relational with their families.
12:06 To realize that yes, they are going to preach,
12:10 yes, they have special things to do with the congregation
12:13 but their first congregation as a family,
12:17 they are all families, you know.
12:18 That's good, that's good way to put it,
12:19 they're first congregation, yes.
12:22 And to realize that-- it's got to start there,
12:25 they got to have that family experience,
12:28 let the Sabbath be a delight.
12:31 Even if they are driving around for four churches,
12:34 you know, to somehow through it all
12:36 over that span of 24 hours find some joy with the kids
12:42 and with their spouses together as a family. That's good.
12:46 And you know, we have to look at the Sabbath
12:49 what are the reasons for the Sabbath,
12:50 not I like the way you stated that
12:52 that this is the time God invited us
12:55 to celebrate His accomplished works.
12:59 And so we are looking to Him not only as a creator
13:03 but the one who recreates us in Chris Jesus. Yes.
13:06 But one of my favorite Sabbath scripture is Exodus 31:13
13:10 because it says the Sabbath is a sign
13:13 that it is God who sanctified us. Yes.
13:16 So that's where we are really entering into His rest
13:20 knowing God is going to work in us
13:22 to willing to act according to His good purpose.
13:25 So if you contrast and we can get into
13:27 if you get some time here, how to celebrate the Sabbath
13:30 and make it a joyous occasion.
13:32 But let's look at the other side of the coin for just a moment.
13:36 For those who come in and make Sabbath
13:39 a lists of do's and don'ts and kind of that stop
13:43 and go Sabbath that you rush right up to the edge of it
13:46 and as it come rolls in on Friday evening,
13:49 where you say okay, got to stop what you are doing,
13:51 now you can't do this, you can't play,
13:53 you cant have any fun, you got to sit here
13:55 and then you are just sitting and the kids are waiting
13:58 and watching for the time that Sabbath should pass.
14:02 Sure, yeah, the list of rules is kind of like in a marriage,
14:08 in a love relationship you can have a bunch of rules there,
14:11 there are principles and non-negotiables,
14:15 you know, there is no doubt about
14:17 who husband and wife are going to sleep
14:19 with tonight, each, each other.
14:20 That's non-negotiable
14:22 but not to have a bunch of rules about that,
14:24 same with the Sabbath but the Pharisees
14:28 and they were not the bad guys,
14:30 they were the good guys,
14:31 they wore the white hats so to speak.
14:34 They were mis-intention though,
14:37 they thought they could protect,
14:39 that was the word they used.
14:40 They could protect the Sabbath,
14:41 they came up with something like 1400 man-made laws.
14:47 You couldn't let spit full out of your mouth on the grass,
14:51 because you make the grass grow or work on the Sabbath
14:54 and you couldn't carry your hanky on the Sabbath.
14:58 If you had a running nose,
15:00 you pinned it to your garment within reach of your nose
15:02 where you couldn't carry it, that would be work.
15:06 So all these rules
15:09 but to step back as we are trying to do here
15:13 and say, why is the Sabbath there in the first place.
15:17 It's because we are primarily relational people
15:22 more important than what we do is who we are.
15:26 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work.
15:31 But the seventh-day is the Sabbath,
15:34 the seventh day is that day
15:35 when we realized that primarily it's not what we do
15:38 but who we are in relationship to God,
15:42 in relationship to each other.
15:44 So all week long week we, you know,
15:47 we're doing this, doing that
15:48 out of time, out of touch too often.
15:50 And of course families need time to get during the week
15:53 but to have a 24 hour--
15:55 Oh, boy. Yeah.
15:57 If it weren't for Sabbath, there would be some,
16:00 for some families, there would be no time to get in
16:03 I mean that's how bad it gets in this hurried world.
16:07 In your questionnaire did you find any
16:11 or did you ask or did they volunteer any ideas
16:14 of how those who really put up in their children's heart
16:20 that the Sabbath was a delight,
16:21 how they celebrated the Sabbath
16:23 were there any special traditions or techniques.
16:26 Yeah, I didn't get into that.
16:28 Yeah I didn't get into that type of detail.
16:30 This is just what, what emerged from the data
16:36 but one thing that was a red flag issue was
16:41 it involved the Sabbath
16:44 it was about the age range of clergy parents,
16:51 whose kids leave the church
16:54 if they began ministry in their 30's
16:58 it was dangerous for their families
17:01 because, because the kids had been used
17:05 to celebrating the Sabbath on a different way
17:07 suddenly daddy is a pastor,
17:09 he's has got lots of duties on the Sabbath
17:12 and daddy is not there for them anymore
17:15 and so it was a real issue in attrition,
17:21 but those parents that manage somehow
17:23 and I didn't ask how, it's just that some
17:26 did manage to still make it
17:30 a joyous experience for the family.
17:33 You know, so we're talking
17:34 specifically here about pastors. Yes.
17:37 And I know that Brenda Walsh, her father was a pastor,
17:41 I know he pastored multiple churches
17:43 but they all went with him to each church
17:46 and they sang and they did,
17:47 you know, they participated in their worship
17:50 and actually up front on the platform
17:55 so they feel a very special part
17:58 because he involved them in ministry,
18:00 ministering the kids, ministering to the people,
18:03 so that's a very, very issue--
18:08 an issue that's very specific to pastors.
18:11 But now for just the general people,
18:14 if a pastor's child is going to perhaps leave the church
18:20 because they had this very legalistic outlook
18:26 and for Sabbath, it surely--
18:30 that well, it actually apply to all families.
18:33 What would be your idea of how,
18:35 how would you celebrate a Sabbath.
18:37 Well, I think I think it's important
18:39 to get the Biblical back kind of thing,
18:42 if we can get into that little deeper,
18:44 which I think will inform us how about these specifics.
18:49 So there is creation,
18:51 you know, there is no sin everything is perfect, it's Eden
18:54 but then to think of Jesus who came as Lord of the Sabbath
18:59 and He came in a context of legalism
19:04 but He came with freedom,
19:06 so many of His works of healing and love were on the Sabbath.
19:12 He was showing us
19:13 that the Sabbath is a time to experience healing,
19:16 not only physically but emotionally relational healing
19:20 and then the way He died,
19:24 the timing of His death is highly significant
19:26 regarding the meaning of the Sabbath.
19:29 And how we view the Sabbath
19:30 and how the Sabbath can be a blessing instead of a curse
19:33 when it comes to attrition of kids.
19:37 He died of course on a Friday afternoon
19:40 and He died with the words "it is finished."
19:44 And though that word finished,
19:45 He wasn't saying I am finished,
19:47 you know, they finally got me,
19:48 they have been trying a long time,
19:49 now they got me where they want me. No, no.
19:52 He is accomplished, Father we did it, it is finished,
19:57 and then, then He rested over the Sabbath in the tomb
20:02 and there in Jerusalem, I got to sit in the--
20:05 in the what some say it's a Tomb of Christ,
20:08 other say, no, it's somewhere else but.
20:11 There is a garden tomb and it was a rainy day
20:14 and nobody, nobody was there.
20:16 I got to be there for about an hour
20:18 just sit inside that tomb
20:19 and just think these things over,
20:20 how that Sabbath, how Jesus is in the tomb
20:23 and that was very significant
20:25 because once again on the sixth day
20:28 He finished the work just like our creation. Yes, yes.
20:32 He finished the work and He rested.
20:35 Now the word rest does not mean rust,
20:37 it does not mean an activity.
20:39 It means to take a break to be relational
20:42 and set up to be utilitarian. Right.
20:45 And so in fact the word Sabbath literally means cessation.
20:51 And that word cessation is used like with a war having a truce--
20:57 He maketh wars to cease, Psalm 46 to make it wars.
21:02 Yeah, to Shabbat to cease,
21:04 so, so, there is a cessation that the work is done
21:09 and done so well nothing more can be added.
21:12 God Himself can't improve on the work
21:16 that is being rested from. Absolutely.
21:18 And so the spiritual blessing here for us
21:24 is to realize that when Jesus Christ on the cross,
21:28 quite now that it is finished,
21:29 He was talking about our relationship
21:32 through Him with the Father,
21:34 that there is nothing more to do for us
21:37 to be able to have a relationship with the Father.
21:39 It was accomplished, yeah. Yes.
21:41 And so when we on the Sabbath rest,
21:45 when we as the sun goes down Friday evening
21:48 that's when it starts of course
21:50 and we set aside our works, they are never done.
21:54 Even the law says, Six days shalt thou labor,
21:56 and do all thy work, there is always something left to do.
21:59 There is always a weed left to pull in the garden
22:01 or some spider web to get out off the closet, you know.
22:05 I always got a mess lots of stuff left to do.
22:08 Yeah, yeah but we rest any where not because our work is done,
22:13 but because Christ finished his work
22:16 and so that teaches us the Gospel every Sabbath
22:21 it's a teaching tool of the Gospel to realize that
22:24 we rest in God not because of our finished work
22:29 but because of Christ finish work for us.
22:33 And when we enter into that rest
22:36 when we set a side our unfinished works and we rest.
22:40 It is a such a not only a physical relief it is that
22:44 but it is a spiritual way to realize
22:47 I don't have to worry about the fact
22:50 that I am not making a daring off, I am not doing.
22:54 I agree, you know when I didn't celebrate
22:57 my first Sabbath in the year 2000
23:00 and the lord took me
23:01 because I didn't grow up in Adventist
23:03 and I probably would have not probably
23:06 I was very resistant to the teaching
23:09 but the lord took me through a deep study
23:11 and when I discovered the truth from the bible for my self
23:15 and I celebrated that first Sabbath,
23:17 it was the first time
23:19 I have ever experienced freedom from performance.
23:22 All my life I had performed from a families love,
23:25 I have performed for gods love thinking that
23:29 if only I can be good enough.
23:30 Because I have this view of a father as being warned
23:34 that it was ready to just zap me
23:36 any minute if I did anything wrong,
23:38 and when I discovered that
23:40 what the Sabbath is all about the it was a day
23:43 when I was to celebrate recognize
23:45 and it's a sign that he is the one,
23:48 that's gonna do this great work in me.
23:50 Aw, it's such a relief.
23:52 I mean it was so glorious,
23:54 I can, first time in my entire life,
23:57 that I had not had to perform
24:00 and from time to time even now,
24:04 all these years later I will get into a performance mentality
24:08 and I think we all do it and as the Sabbath rolls around,
24:12 the Lord frequently has to remind me of Galatians 3:3
24:16 you foolishly having begun in the Spirit,
24:19 are you now trying to perfect it in the flesh
24:22 and it came by the Sabbath rolls
24:24 and you remember, God has accomplished it all,
24:29 all I have to do is to learn to surrender to Him,
24:32 being dependent upon Him
24:34 and to know that I can have a assurance of the salvation
24:38 if I'm in Jesus Christ because 1 John 5:11 says
24:41 this is the testimony he who has the son
24:45 has a internal life, so how beautiful?
24:47 Yeah, now of course some people will say well,
24:51 well Jesus is my Sabbath so I don't need the day
24:54 because I have the person of Jesus
24:57 and so I'll use-- I used to say that.
24:58 Yeah, So, I'll ask them
25:00 okay now is Jesus' your baptism? That's good.
25:04 Everybody believes in baptism of one kind or another,
25:06 of course the other Bible talks about immersion,
25:08 you know that's the Bible way
25:10 but everybody where they sprinkle
25:11 they do some kind of baptism
25:13 so that okay now if, if Jesus is your baptism.
25:17 No, baptism is a symbol of entering into Jesus,
25:21 like that is exactly what the Sabbath is
25:23 what baptism is once a life time
25:26 is with a Sabbath is every week.
25:28 It's a symbol of entering into a Jesus,
25:31 Jesus is not my Sabbath, Jesus is not my baptism,
25:35 baptism and the Sabbath are both teaching tools
25:38 of entering the rest of the Jesus Christ,
25:42 the gate way to enter into Jesus Christ
25:44 in his finished work for us.
25:46 And it certainly help us to keep up priorities straight
25:48 because if we work for the Sabbath,
25:50 I think I have just worked my self today.
25:52 I freely confess I'm workaholic
25:54 and the lord still working on me.
25:55 And we have to perform it,
25:57 you know and The Bible said do all the work,
25:59 you know we get paid to perform
26:01 and that what the Sabbath tells us
26:04 is more important than anything we do as important as that is,
26:09 more important is who we are relationally
26:13 and that tells me for example,
26:14 if for example there is some accident,
26:16 I'm handicapped and unable to perform anymore
26:22 I'm no lesser person
26:23 because I still I'm still here I can be relational. Yes.
26:28 I can be relational even if when I say get older,
26:31 and older you know and I can do less
26:34 and less of this or that
26:36 am still relationally
26:39 fundamentally a relational person
26:40 and I still have that most important significance
26:46 to be rather than more important than to do.
26:49 Martin, I can't believe how fast this time went by
26:52 but this is one of my favorite topics
26:53 so, I want to thank you again so much
26:56 for coming and joining us
26:58 and we still want to have you come back again. Thank you.
27:01 Okay, you know for those who at home,
27:04 just remember this don't make the Sabbath a bunch of Do's
27:08 and Don't remember it's a principle
27:10 of being a day of delight in the Lord,
27:13 finding the delight in the Lord,
27:15 resting in what he is done for you,
27:17 knowing that he is not only your creator
27:19 but the one who is recreating you
27:21 in the reach of Jesus, knowing he is the one
27:24 that's going to complete the good work in you,
27:26 he says the Sabbath is a sign
27:28 that I'm no one that sanctifies you
27:31 so when we come to the lord
27:33 and make the Sabbath day
27:35 a wonderful experience for our children
27:38 this will help them stay in the Church
27:41 because they develop a one-one relationship with Jesus,
27:45 and that's what its all about.
27:47 Now, thank you so much for joining us
27:49 and may the grace of Lord Jesus Christ,
27:51 the love of the Father
27:52 and the fellowship of the holly spirit
27:54 be with you always.