Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Ron and Nancy Rockey
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000318
00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:31 And welcome again to "Issues and Answers."
00:33 No matter where you're tuning in from around the world,
00:36 we are so glad that you are with us today.
00:39 And I'm really thrilled because we have Doctors Ron and Nancy.
00:43 Rockey back with us today.
00:44 We're going to be talking about fear.
00:47 And how wounds from the past can make us fearful
00:52 and how they could set up self-destructive behavior
00:55 but more than that how we can get rid
00:57 of that self-destructive behavior.
00:59 And you know, the Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 1:7,
01:03 "That God didn't give us the spirit of fear
01:05 but He gave us the spirit of love
01:07 and power and sound mind."
01:09 But there is a scripture that's even better than that
01:12 and it comes from 1 John 4:18. Let me read it to you.
01:16 It says, "There is no fear in love, perfect fear--"
01:23 Let me say that again, "Perfect love casts out fear."
01:27 And that's what we're gonna be talking about today.
01:30 So help me welcome Doctors Ron and Nancy.
01:34 And I looked at--I looked at you and I said Ron
01:36 and him when I say Nancy.
01:38 But anyway, two Rockey's. We don't mind.
01:39 We are so glad that you are back.
01:41 Move on, anyways this doesn't matter.
01:42 That's right. Call me Nancy, I don't care.
01:45 What was that-- oh, there was a song,
01:48 a boy name Sue or something like that from away back wind.
01:52 I guess, I don't remember that one.
01:54 You were never a Jonny Cash fan then.
01:56 Probably not. Anyway.
02:00 We have had some good times with you guys.
02:03 It's not your first visit to 3ABN.
02:05 But there are some people who may not know you,
02:08 so let's just talk about what you are doing right now.
02:12 You've got the Life Renewal Institute, you are the founders.
02:18 You've been a pastor-- you're a pastor for 20 years.
02:21 Master's degree in Family Therapy, both of you,
02:26 doctoral degrees and psychology and counseling.
02:30 And now you've been spending,
02:33 how many years going around the world
02:36 giving seminars 45 weekends out of the year?
02:40 Well, let's see.
02:41 We started that in 1995-- All right, has been a long--
02:45 But have been teaching seminars since 1980.
02:48 Since 1980.
02:49 Well, that's--you know, for those who may not know
02:54 and if you haven't seen the Rockey's on 3ABN before.
02:57 They came from, both of them, very dysfunctional backgrounds,
03:01 brought their dysfunctions into their own marriage.
03:04 And at the time that they were just almost had a split,
03:10 pastor and his wife.
03:11 That's when they went into this furtherance
03:14 of their career, thinking for Ron,
03:17 thinking that he may not get to be a pastor
03:19 if he was divorced.
03:20 And it was actually then that,
03:23 what did you say to me 'cause I ask you, it wasn't,
03:26 when you went to-- to train for family therapy?
03:31 Is that what woke you up?
03:32 But what did you say woke you up?
03:34 I saw that there were, first of all there's hope for Nancy.
03:39 So you still didn't see your own problem. No.
03:41 I was only as I began to understand my beginnings
03:46 that I was able to see.
03:47 Maybe I did have some issues, that wasn't all Nancy.
03:49 Because to me with my background she was a nutcase
03:53 because I married a happy-go-lucky
03:55 sweet smiling person.
03:56 After we got married she's crying
03:58 and tearful and sick all the time.
04:00 And every time I turned around,
04:03 she has some other ailment going on with her
04:05 and to me with my rejection issues,
04:08 severe rejection issues in childhood.
04:10 She was getting sick all the time,
04:12 so she wouldn't have to kiss me or hold me
04:15 or just be around me, she was always sick so--
04:18 And to be a good husband and a good father,
04:21 being German, I worked, so I was gone all the time.
04:27 Which of course made me physically healthy, right?
04:30 Yeah. Not.
04:31 So she got more sick, I worked more.
04:34 She got more sick, I worked more.
04:36 It's a merry-go-round.
04:38 So was it stressed related illnesses?
04:39 Oh, absolutely, every one of them.
04:41 Every one of them.
04:43 And here he was being a very controlling person
04:46 which most people who are fearful
04:48 of rejection are controlling. Oh, absolutely.
04:51 Because when childhood is out of control
04:53 and adults would take control. I was so controlling.
04:56 Remember when I was in prison,
04:57 when we talked the last time being in prison
05:02 that was in Tennessee.
05:04 I was a Yankee in a southern prison.
05:06 Not a good place to be 45 years ago.
05:09 And they were--the brutality was off the charts.
05:14 And I went to the warden.
05:17 And I said, "If you don't get these guards off my back,
05:19 I'm gonna leave."
05:21 No arrogance in him, right?
05:23 And he's sitting there with his belly out here
05:25 like this is the 38 up on top
05:27 and chewing tobacco coming down both sides.
05:29 And he laughed at me.
05:31 And he went, "Boy, you think you can leave--
05:34 you go ahead and leave, nobody leaves this place."
05:36 I said, "Glad to hear. Thank you for the permission."
05:39 That was on Saturday,
05:41 the following Friday, I was gone.
05:42 To this day, they didn't know how I got out of there.
05:45 But they caught up with you.
05:46 They caught up with me, the FBI did.
05:49 And you know, then you gave your--
05:52 well, wait a minute, I start to say
05:53 you gave your life to the Lord but you became a pastor.
05:56 You were actually a pastor for many years
05:57 before you developed a very personal
05:59 relationship with the Lord.
06:01 And yet in prison, he said, "It's where he found home.
06:08 Where he found the safety of a relationship with God."
06:13 But just because one has a relationship with God
06:17 or what we think or consider to be a relationship with God.
06:22 It does not mean that our history and all of the things
06:25 that cause our dysfunction magically get erased?
06:31 There is that process of sanctification, isn't it?
06:33 Absolutely, and one of the laws of the mind is
06:36 with every period of exhaustion,
06:38 there's a course binding period of depression
06:39 that goes for a weakest point.
06:41 Now, wait a minute, don't just rush pass that
06:43 'cause I think that that speaks volumes and I-- Oh, it does.
06:47 With every period of exhaustion
06:48 and it doesn't matter what cause of the exhaustion,
06:50 it could be stress, overwork, studying too hard, mental--
06:53 Physical, mental, spiritual, the whole thing.
06:55 With every period of exhaustion,
06:57 there's a course binding period of depression.
06:59 That depression is manifested in our weakest point.
07:02 And the weakest point to me--
07:03 For me was rejection. All right.
07:06 So--when she is sick all the time,
07:09 I'm feeling, what?
07:10 Rejected, so I work more.
07:12 Which makes you exhausted?
07:14 So it makes me more exhausted.
07:15 Which brings on depression,
07:17 which brings on more about rejection.
07:18 Absolutely, and I didn't-- depressions for me.
07:21 Each one of us displays depressions differently.
07:24 For me I just played depression in rage. Okay.
07:27 Oh, off the chart, I was at a number 10 in rage
07:31 before my feet hit the ground
07:33 coming out of bed every morning, every morning.
07:35 And when I woke up--
07:37 I wonder you were sick all the time. Oh, yeah.
07:39 Who made me rageful every morning?
07:41 I opened up my eyes and there she was.
07:43 Oh, mercy.
07:44 I mean, she couldn't do anything right.
07:47 She couldn't sneeze right.
07:49 And this is someone-- this is--
07:50 oh, you can just see the dynamics here.
07:53 Because here you are with all of your issues in baggage,
07:57 and this rage, and everything,
07:58 and you think she can't do anything right.
08:00 And here she is with all of her dysfunction,
08:02 a perfectionist wanting and desiring
08:06 and craving the approval of a man.
08:10 And so suddenly you just keep getting
08:12 more and more perfectionist oriented
08:14 and trying to do performance oriented.
08:16 You keep thinking she is rejecting you.
08:18 So she is working over here, you working over there
08:20 and you just keep going in the opposite direction.
08:23 Absolutely. Oh.
08:25 And yet, you know,
08:26 there was something about our relationship.
08:30 Maybe it was the way we met.
08:33 I mean, how many people actually meet in a courtroom,
08:38 the day one of them is released from prison.
08:41 It just doesn't happen.
08:42 And how many people do you know say that,
08:44 "How many children you want
08:46 within 30 minutes after meeting her?"
08:49 You say, you knew, you were gonna marry her, huh?
08:51 Yeah, he did. And you know--
08:53 And you thought you're gonna marry this jailbird
08:55 to straighten him out or what?
08:57 Well, tell her the rest of the story.
08:59 I honestly thought that, that was my job.
09:02 Oh, you did think. Oh, absolutely.
09:03 But all of her life--
09:05 Unless your little diluted heart.
09:06 All of her life she was told,
09:08 she will never marry any good man.
09:10 That's right. No good man will ever want you.
09:13 Oh, that's hard.
09:14 So what did she wind up doing, she married a con.
09:16 Oh, bless your heart.
09:18 And you know it's very interesting.
09:20 We don't know the depth of the wounds
09:24 we cause with the words we say.
09:26 Oh, Bible says in Proverbs 18:21 that
09:29 "The power of life and death is in the tongue."
09:31 And parents speak these words into a child's life
09:35 and they speak death into them.
09:37 So no good man is going to want you, why?
09:41 You are too fat.
09:44 Why was I? Why was I overeating?
09:49 I was looking for comfort.
09:50 I was feeling the giant hole in my heart. Yeah.
09:54 Where my parents or more primarily
09:57 my father should have been.
09:59 And I was trying to comfort myself from the sexual abuse
10:03 that was going on across the street.
10:05 Okay, so all of this fear,
10:07 you have a story about black ice that I like
10:09 because when we go through
10:13 these really negative childhood experiences
10:17 and even early adulthood,
10:19 just any negative experience can setup fear,
10:22 fear can setup this self destructive behaviors.
10:25 We find ourselves on a slippery slope.
10:28 We've been here with black ice running on.
10:31 I remember the first time we saw black ice, I heard about it.
10:34 I don't mind I'm from Wisconsin,
10:37 I know how to drive on ice.
10:40 But black ice means you can't see it. You don't see it.
10:44 You don't know it's there
10:45 and you don't know what it can cause.
10:48 I'm from Texas, so I know about black ice.
10:51 We were driving in Texas. Yes.
10:55 And we were heading up north to our home with a trailer
11:02 we were pulling behind us with a refrigerator and a stove
11:06 and all the appliances necessary to outfit a kitchen.
11:11 And all of a sudden we hit black ice.
11:14 And that trailer was dancing all over the highway,
11:17 our car was dancing all over the highway
11:19 and we didn't know had we blown a tire,
11:22 what had we done, we couldn't see the black ice.
11:26 And that's the way it is with fear.
11:29 It is imperceptible to us.
11:31 We don't realize that fear
11:35 is at cause for what is going on.
11:40 Fear is-- well, let me start again.
11:43 There are two basic emotions,
11:45 one is love and the other is fear.
11:48 They are total opposites from each other.
11:52 And when we have been wounded,
11:55 the brain goes into survival mode, I must survive.
11:59 I fear that no one else will take care of me,
12:02 they will not protect me.
12:04 And fear sends us down that slippery road to self defeat.
12:09 To developing techniques, in order to survive,
12:13 addictions to numb our pain
12:16 and behaviors that are destructive to others
12:19 and destructive to ourselves.
12:22 So-- you know, I have a teaching that I do
12:25 and I haven't done this in a long time.
12:28 But what you were saying, I think I'm really getting.
12:32 The Bible tells us that we are to be rooted
12:34 and grounded in the love of Christ.
12:37 If we are not rooted and grounded in love--
12:39 and that's the tap root.
12:41 Then if our taproot is fear from that insecurity, rejection,
12:47 all of these other things are rooted off there.
12:50 That is exactly right.
12:51 And what you're saying is that,
12:53 when we have-- our taproot is fear
12:57 then what actually starts branching off
13:00 is all of these self destructive behaviors
13:03 that are not only driving us further away from God,
13:07 but they also cut off any meaningful relationship
13:11 with another human being. Well, exactly.
13:13 We pay a price for the techniques we develop.
13:17 If it's an addiction like to drugs or to alcohol,
13:20 we're gonna pay a price.
13:22 We're gonna lose relationships. We're gonna lose money.
13:24 We're gonna lose our jobs. Okay.
13:26 But there is one point also
13:27 that we could perform and look phenomenal.
13:30 We can be absolutely perfect as a Christian
13:33 and look wonderful.
13:34 Well, we could put a perfect front, so we put it that way.
13:37 Unless we do off, we come in the church in the morning.
13:39 How are you doing? What's your answer?
13:41 Yes, of course. Fine.
13:43 Everybody is fine. But underneath we are dying.
13:47 Exactly, But, you know,
13:49 I tell people that part of the reason that--
13:53 I mean it is fear that we won't tell anyone
13:55 because part of the reason is we're afraid
13:58 if we tell people, they're gonna start gossiping about us.
14:00 Or the other one is that they won't listen to me.
14:03 Yeah, 'Cause a lot of times when people ask that question
14:06 they're not really interested in the answer,
14:08 it's just a social--
14:10 It's a social reading. Yeah.
14:12 When I'm hurting today, today 19--
14:16 No, it's 2000 honey sweet.
14:20 When I'm hurting today,
14:21 there's two people I can go through.
14:23 Now you are only a decade off for a sec.
14:24 That will listen to me, Him and her.
14:25 Yeah. She'll listen to anything.
14:29 It doesn't matter and I spill that out to her of my pain,
14:33 what am my feeling or whatever because of overdoing.
14:36 Matter of fact, when we overdo something we--
14:38 we cut each other slack of that law
14:40 with a period of exhaustion.
14:42 Of course, my impeded depression that was for a weakest point.
14:45 Her tendency is to-- is to get into something
14:48 that would regenerate her by creativity.
14:51 I go to the computer and I do editing
14:54 and creativity on the computer.
14:56 You know, I have to go back
14:57 'cause I know we are talking about fear.
14:59 But boy, you really hitting something here,
15:01 it's a hitting a nerve for me
15:02 because I'm a driving personality,
15:05 I drive myself, you know, I'm always over schedule.
15:08 And nobody really wants to say,
15:12 I mean, there's this thing about--
15:13 in our society there's two things that are interesting.
15:16 If we are independent you get a pad on the back.
15:20 And being that independence is what keeps you sometimes,
15:23 I mean, it keeps you distant from God.
15:26 But also being a person who is a high performer,
15:32 its pad on the back.
15:34 And you don't want to ever tell anyone that--
15:36 'cause I actually asked myself this question the other day.
15:39 Am I depressed?
15:41 And I thought I don't act depressed,
15:42 I don't feel depressed,
15:44 but I'm doing some things that are self-destructive.
15:47 I-- I've kind of like,
15:48 I've gained a little weight 'cause I'm not eating--
15:50 you know, I'm eating things that are not good for me.
15:52 But also I'm not motivated right now to do the things
15:57 that normally just, I'm passionate about.
16:02 And I thought may be I've just pushed so far so long
16:06 and I've got one deadline after a next
16:08 that I never have this lapse.
16:10 So are you really saying
16:11 that this is just a general principle
16:13 that over exhaustion when you over exert yourself
16:16 and you get exhausted, every one of us,
16:19 whether we want to say it out louder or not.
16:22 We go through kind of a little depression
16:24 and it hits us at our weakest point.
16:26 And our weakest point is usually the trauma
16:29 that's happened to us in childhood
16:30 and the experience that we come out of that way.
16:32 Mine was rejection. Okay.
16:35 So I feel rejected.
16:36 So when Nancy and I do a seminar even to this day,
16:39 all the recovery we've done.
16:40 And we really spent, we do two,
16:42 three up in a row, where we spent.
16:45 We create at least two or three days,
16:48 where she does her thing and I do my thing.
16:50 And we just come together in the evening
16:51 and we go out to eat,
16:53 knowing that we need to take the time to rest
16:57 and to regenerate, recoup
16:59 and in the evening we spent a few,
17:00 how are you feeling again?
17:02 I'm feeling all right.
17:03 But I little--yeah, and we just kind of walk each other--
17:05 each others you know, cuffing on.
17:07 And then go to bed and go to sleep,
17:10 just create the time for each other.
17:12 Okay, so this is the kind of fear
17:14 from driving in exhaustion.
17:15 What a--what would you talk to the people out here
17:20 who are listening in on this conversation and watching.
17:24 What about the people who have real issues of fear
17:27 in their life, not just from exhaustion.
17:30 But maybe they've got someone that--
17:33 and it's not just rejection
17:35 but there is physical things going on,
17:39 there is maybe abuse going on.
17:41 How do people--?
17:43 And fear can be a good thing too.
17:45 Yes, absolutely.
17:46 Fear is something that's a natural--
17:48 It's a motivator at some point.
17:53 We have to understand that fear paralyses most people.
17:58 Paralyses our ability to think rationally.
18:02 Fear tends to predict its own end.
18:04 In other words usually the things we're scared to death
18:07 about end up happening,
18:09 because we set the stage for it to happen.
18:13 Fear makes us emotionally or fear makes us physically ill.
18:18 And God never wanted any of these things for us.
18:21 He wanted us to live in love.
18:24 Amen. Not in fear.
18:27 Amen. And I tell women.
18:30 And I'm often asked this question.
18:32 If you had it to do over again would you have divorced Ron?
18:38 Big question. 12 years.
18:41 12 years. But it wasn't physical.
18:45 And that was a rule I had set in my own mind.
18:49 The second it turns physical I'm gone.
18:53 As I look back on it,
18:55 I realize that the emotional abuse took a toll on me.
18:59 And because we live in this "cat kicking society"
19:03 I then took a toll on our children.
19:06 That's the way we do.
19:07 And our children took it on our dog-
19:10 and the dog on the cat.
19:11 And that's kind of the way it goes.
19:15 But I always tell women, if you are living
19:17 in a physically abusive relationship,
19:21 you need to separate from the abuser
19:24 for the purpose of reconciliation.
19:27 God hates divorce, but He never said
19:31 we have to stay there and be beaten.
19:34 You are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Absolutely.
19:36 And we are teaching our daughters
19:38 how to be doormats and we are teaching our sons
19:41 how to be abusers, if we stay.
19:43 You know, and it talks about in Timothy about the--
19:46 isn't it Timothy, 2 Timothy where he's talking about
19:48 the end times and the godless people
19:50 and they're gonna be so abusive and he says,
19:53 have nothing to do with those kind of men.
19:55 So I use that scripture to say
19:56 that supports getting away from them. Right.
19:59 So that you can at least,
20:02 you cannot reconcile with someone who--
20:05 I'm gonna use you as an example Ron. Sure.
20:07 Because you said earlier, you didn't even recognize,
20:11 this was your normal pattern of behavior,
20:13 it's what you grew up with.
20:15 And so you thought she was a nutcase,
20:18 you didn't realize that all of your controlling
20:21 and verbal abusive,
20:22 you didn't even recognize you were doing that.
20:25 And because this is, it's get really hairy,
20:30 and it cuts pretty deep inside of me.
20:36 Because Nancy did stay,
20:38 we've got a ministry in each other. Yes.
20:41 But because she did stay,
20:43 both of our girls married abusers.
20:45 Oh, boy. I can see where that comes through.
20:47 And actually what was so difficult
20:51 is that our eldest daughter, a very beautiful woman,
20:56 was married to a man who beat her for 6 ½ years.
21:00 He was unmerciful to her.
21:03 And she hid that from you. Oh, yes.
21:05 Well, we were living 2400 miles apart
21:07 so that's pretty easy, you know.
21:08 But I mean she still hid it from you, she did--
21:10 She did not tell us the story, no.
21:13 Didn't even given any inclination,
21:14 'cause she knew her dad. Yes.
21:16 And she knew dad's response to that. Yeah.
21:19 And so finally she called
21:21 and left a message on her answering machine
21:23 that she had escaped from her husband.
21:27 Well, in instantly we tried to call her,
21:29 could not get her so we hopped in the car
21:32 and drove 2400 miles straight through,
21:34 until we got to the town where she was.
21:38 And I sat up all night and listened to her
21:41 and listen to what had transpired in these 6 ½ years.
21:45 And finally towards morning I said
21:47 Sara, "Why?
21:49 Why would you stay with a man
21:52 who would do these despicable things to you?"
21:56 She said, "Mama, you fixed daddy,
21:59 so I figured I should be able to fix him."
22:02 She didn't realize it weren't you who fixed daddy.
22:04 Wasn't me who fixed daddy? No.
22:08 Heavens know I stayed, yes.
22:10 Because at some level, meeting in a courtroom.
22:15 I felt God had brought us together
22:19 and He doesn't change His mind.
22:22 So why would God bring us together to tear us apart?
22:27 It made no sense.
22:28 And I used to plea, "God, You've got to have a purpose in this.
22:32 I just don't know what it is. Yes.
22:34 Please show us, please show us. That's painful.
22:36 And finally He gave us Isaiah 42. Praise God.
22:41 Which says, "I have chosen you to--"
22:46 And there is a list.
22:47 Heal the broken hearted, set the captives free.
22:53 And I said, "Well, if that's the case,
22:56 you better get busy,
22:57 because I'm hanging out with my fingernails."
23:00 Now, you know, we only have a few minutes left
23:03 and I don't want-- I mean, your story is so moving.
23:06 And I know you are touching
23:07 a lot of hearts out there right now.
23:09 And there are people who are saying,
23:11 "Help, you are identifying me, what do I do?"
23:16 How do I get--you know, here I quoted 2 Timothy 1:7,
23:20 "That spirit of fear doesn't come from God."
23:22 You know, God's not the kind of God--
23:25 and I want to tell you this.
23:27 He is not the kind of father who is up there
23:29 trying to control you or manipulate you
23:32 or zap you when you do wrong.
23:35 He is love and He wants you
23:38 to understand your great value to Him.
23:41 How does someone get there?
23:43 How do they get from that point of being paralyzed with fear
23:48 to where they can move beyond?
23:51 Let me say one thing before Nancy open--finishes with that.
23:56 There's a lot of people out there,
23:57 they have been praying about their issues,
24:00 praying and praying and reading scriptures.
24:03 And they don't seem to feel like God answers their prayers.
24:08 And what I want them to hear is,
24:11 He's answering them but they don't recognize it.
24:14 For me to recognize that God loved me was impossible.
24:18 For me to recognize that God accepts me, it was impossible.
24:22 So any prayers that I had was totally unrecognizable.
24:26 He works with and for us in spite of ourselves.
24:30 So don't give up on the prayers because you can't see it,
24:33 doesn't mean He is not there. Amen.
24:36 But prayer isn't the only solution. Yes.
24:39 Lord tells us we need to examine ourselves
24:42 to see how we got where we are.
24:46 And He tells us that wisdom is in the council of many.
24:50 That we should go to a godly counselor and get some help.
24:56 There are recovery programs out there.
24:59 Our program "Binding the Wounds"
25:01 another one with "The Journey"
25:03 both have been available now for some time
25:06 and have been used by countless people
25:09 to find hope instead of having to live in fear.
25:15 And it's partly just knowing--
25:18 if we can get to that point,
25:20 you know, there's something and I say it so often,
25:23 I don't want anyone to think
25:24 that I'm using this in a try fashion.
25:27 But the Lord told me when He called me to fulltime ministry
25:30 to always remind people of this,
25:32 that you are worth nothing less than the price
25:35 that He paid for you
25:37 with the precious blood of His Son Jesus.
25:39 So no matter how often someone's told you,
25:41 you are worthless, God doesn't see you as worthless,
25:44 He puts a great worth on you.
25:45 You have great value to Him.
25:48 He loves you and He does have a plan for your life.
25:51 And what you are saying is go to someone
25:54 who can help you with the past.
25:58 You know, I teach people
25:59 to confess the word of God over their life.
26:02 This is almost-- I didn't realized
26:04 this still the other day, but it's kind of like
26:06 cognitive behavioral therapy, I mean.
26:08 Oh, it's scientifically correct.
26:11 Your reply is-- that's the only way
26:12 you can capture your thought and make it obedient to God.
26:15 You change, you program, you reprogram your mind.
26:19 But I just cannot believe
26:21 how fast the time flies when you are here.
26:25 And we're almost, all the way out of time.
26:28 I just want to thank you so much and tell me again,
26:30 what are the names of your seminars?
26:32 Sure, we have two,
26:33 one is entitled "Binding the Wounds"
26:36 taken from the Book of Psalms, where God heals
26:38 the broken hearted and binds up their wounds.
26:41 Our newest program is called "The Journey."
26:44 And it's a more complete program,
26:47 it's taught by video and by 40 chapters
26:51 and 40 workbook sessions.
26:53 Okay, now what is your website address?
26:55 And that's www.your, Y-o-u-r-l-r-I,
27:02 life renewal institute.com.
27:05 so it's www.yourlri.com.
27:11 Well, Nancy and Ron Rockey, thank you so much for coming.
27:15 You are welcome. It was a joy.
27:17 You know for those of you at home
27:18 I hope that this program has benefited you,
27:22 we've all got some baggage from the past.
27:25 And it's just a matter of, you know,
27:27 one of my favorite scriptures is Psalms 129:4,
27:30 that says, "God is righteous,
27:32 He will cut you free from the cords of the wicked"
27:34 that's binding you.
27:36 So I want to encourage you, if you've been living in fear,
27:39 seek help, find a Christian counselor
27:42 or find someone that can help you,
27:45 point the way to God because perfect love cast out fear.
27:50 Now may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
27:52 the love of the Father
27:54 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit
27:55 be with you always.