Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Herb Larson Jr.
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000308
00:30 Hello I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:31 Welcome again to Issues and Answers.
00:34 We have a special guest joining us from Canada today
00:38 and his name is Herb Larsen.
00:39 Herb is an international businessman and author.
00:43 Author in the making? In the making, that's right.
00:44 An author in the making and you are the president of?
00:49 Imagine Life Media. Imagine Life Media.
00:52 And let me ask you this,
00:54 we had you here for several programs,
00:56 we have been talking about
00:58 friendship evangelism, witnessing,
01:02 but today we are gonna talk about
01:03 something that I like to talk about
01:05 you say that not too many people do discuss this
01:08 and it all comes back to,
01:10 one scripture that we are gonna
01:11 start this out with and that's Romans 8:1
01:14 is what's coming to my mind.
01:15 In Romans 8:1 Paul writes,
01:17 "There is therefore now no condemnation
01:21 for those who are in Christ Jesus,
01:23 who don't walk according to the dictates of the flesh
01:27 but according to the dictates of the Spirit."
01:29 Now, is there condemnation nation
01:32 if you are in Christ?
01:35 Bible says not.
01:36 But what we are gonna be talking about today
01:37 is this guilt that people cannot get rid off
01:41 and there are lot of people suffering from that.
01:43 Absolutely, because guilt you know and it's amazing.
01:47 Guilt isn't even talk about much
01:48 even in the realm of psychology
01:51 or especially spirituality where it should be
01:53 really advent of what's going on.
01:55 And what so damaging about guilt is,
01:58 it ruins the emotionally and intellectually.
02:00 I mean many suicides,
02:02 I mean psychologists will tell us,
02:03 many suicides have caused because people can't resolve
02:07 the pressure put on by guilt and nagging awareness
02:09 that have done something wrong.
02:12 It also affects you spiritually.
02:15 Obviously if guilt keeps getting you down
02:17 it's gonna drive you to legalism
02:20 because if you can't resolve the guilt's
02:23 if you don't feel like you are forgiven
02:25 then you have to adopt some sort of a system
02:27 where I can keep score as to what I am doing
02:29 to try to get rid of that guilt.
02:31 So its one of the major, major things that drive
02:33 people to legalism.
02:35 And you know there is another thing too that guilt
02:37 I used to tell people, if I feel guilty around someone,
02:39 for example let's say that
02:42 you have been trying to contact me for a week
02:44 and I haven't returned your phone call.
02:47 Now I bump into you in the grocery store.
02:50 You don't see me but I see you
02:51 and I heading down the one way
02:53 and you are coming near that I look up and I see you
02:55 and you are looking at something.
02:58 What am I gonna do? Split.
03:00 I am gonna try to avoid you if I can
03:02 because I am thinking I don't want this confrontation.
03:04 If we have, if we allow the devil
03:08 one of his favorite tricks
03:09 is to take a baton of condemnation
03:12 and hand it over to you
03:13 and we are stupid enough that we take it and we just
03:18 hitting ourself over the head with this.
03:20 And what we do when we feel guilty of your own God
03:23 and you find so many people, we off away God.
03:26 We kept praying this much. Perfect analogy.
03:28 So now there is-- there is own guilt,
03:32 I am guilt that you should feel guilty.
03:34 Two kinds of guilt.
03:35 Two kinds of guilt all right let's talk about that.
03:36 Well, the other thing is we have to look at
03:38 what are the damages that we have the emotional,
03:39 we have the spiritual, and the physical.
03:41 I mean Doctor Jeff Low of British study
03:43 that released recently here
03:45 where they measure your immunity
03:48 and they measure the secretory immunoglobulin 'A'
03:51 in your saliva and that's your first defense.
03:54 They call SIgA for short.
03:56 And they said in Great Britain symposium recently in England
04:01 that people with high levels of guilt
04:03 have a reduced, drastically reduce immunity.
04:07 And so not only that but then guilt causes stress
04:10 which--which release stresses hormones
04:12 which also destroys your health.
04:13 So it will destroy you physically,
04:14 emotionally, spiritually.
04:16 The devils come up with a really good one.
04:18 Yes, he has. And the problem is this.
04:22 Where this all start, where it start for me
04:24 to even look into this thing in the first place
04:25 its because I would wake up in the morning
04:29 and say, you know what, I did something wrong,
04:31 I better ask for forgiveness.
04:32 So I would say please forgive me, God,
04:34 please forgive me.
04:36 The next day, I would wake up and its still there.
04:39 So I would have to repeat my, you know,
04:41 request to forgive me again
04:44 and we are just haunt, haunt, haunt.
04:45 And then after a while, because you can't
04:48 get rid of that guilt you tend to think that okay,
04:51 I don't have enough faith
04:52 or may be God is using this as punishment for me,
04:56 may be the angels are pounding me over the head
04:58 or its through my concisions or whatever with this guilt.
05:00 And so you begin to think well, I really deserve this.
05:02 And before long your whole concept of God
05:04 that is to change.
05:06 And then legalism starts to come because,
05:09 because you need to some how keep score of the goods
05:11 and bad's that you do.
05:12 And if you do more goods,
05:13 then you can resolve this guilt.
05:15 But this is all a trap of Satan. Amen.
05:18 And you know not all guilt.
05:19 The Bible says that there is a--
05:21 God brings us to a godly sorrow. Yes, absolutely.
05:24 And godly sorrow brings repentance,
05:26 worldly sorrow brings death. Absolutely.
05:29 And so, this godly sorrow when the Lord is leading us,
05:33 it's a whole different thing to--
05:35 instead of guilt lets say there is a conviction of your sin.
05:38 When it's a godly sorrow it's where you know
05:42 you made a mistake
05:43 and God is showing you by the part of this Holy Spirit.
05:46 But its something that brings you forward
05:50 I mean you have that realization
05:51 and you come forward.
05:52 The kind of guilt that we are talking about
05:54 because we want to say
05:56 there is a right time to have godly sorrow
05:58 but the kind of guilt we are talking about
06:00 is that unearned guilt.
06:01 The guilt that should have been,
06:03 I mean, we should not have because we have already said,
06:06 we ask God for forgiveness,
06:08 1 John 1:9
06:09 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful
06:12 and just to forgive us our sins
06:13 and cleanse us of all unrighteousness."
06:16 But this type of nagging of that's hanging on.
06:19 Okay, this is a good point. So, God does give us a guilt.
06:22 He has originals guilt by remorse.
06:24 What is remorse?
06:25 Remorse is when we hurt someone
06:27 the love connection that we have is hurt too.
06:31 If you hurt because I hurt you
06:33 then my love is gonna say, you know, correct that.
06:37 And so that's what God, God's guilt is remorse
06:40 but this is what we got to realize
06:41 there is nothing, God has never instituted
06:44 any thing in the Bible
06:45 the Satan has not come up with a counterfeit.
06:47 That's right. Absolutely, clearly.
06:49 Starting Genesis 1 look all the way through,
06:51 everything God is ever since did in the beginning,
06:52 God created heaven and earth,
06:53 no He didn't it evolved.
06:55 God created you in His image.
06:57 No He didn't, you are in the image of an ape.
06:59 God created male and female had sexuality
07:01 and all this something else.
07:02 And so on and on and on it goes.
07:05 And so when it comes to guilt,
07:07 there is a guilt that God allows
07:10 and that's basically
07:12 when the love connection breaks down
07:14 because God is--
07:15 all love flows from God through us into the world
07:19 and so when you do wrong things
07:21 that breaks down and sin separates.
07:23 So when you separate it hurts.
07:26 No different in any human relationship.
07:28 So what you have to realize and okay if there is an original
07:31 we know there is going to be a counterfeit
07:33 because Satan is not gonna leave
07:34 something like that undone. Yes.
07:36 So how could use counterfeit work
07:38 that could through us into this huge tizzy?
07:40 And that's what we want to look at little bit is--
07:42 is it's that counterfeit guilt that we can't get rid off,
07:47 that destroys us emotional, physical and spiritually
07:51 and Satan wants to use that and some of his people won't
07:53 talk about guilt much.
07:54 It's just sort of one of those things that--
07:55 that kind of sounds bit way out there
07:57 and yet it's very--it's very important to understand.
07:59 Now there is a couple of examples in the Bible.
08:03 One is we look at two characters
08:05 that of Judas and Peter.
08:08 Now the interesting thing is--
08:10 is their stories are unbelievably parallel?
08:14 If you read about it in Matthew 26,
08:16 the stories are just right down
08:19 both of them were friends of each other
08:21 and we have the stories happen on the same night,
08:24 they betray the same person.
08:26 They were warned they ahead of time
08:27 they were gonna betray and it just goes on and on
08:30 with the different things they both experienced guilt
08:35 and guess what, they both repentance.
08:36 Because, you know, it says in Matthew 27 right here
08:38 it says, "Then Judas, which had betrayed him,
08:41 when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself,
08:43 and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to him."
08:46 So he did feel some pressure there.
08:48 Right. And he repented.
08:50 But now okay so all the way through and he is like,
08:52 the pile are different, absolute parallel
08:54 so the story should have ended the same too.
08:57 But it didn't.
08:58 One became a great evangelists for Jesus,
09:01 3, 000 days very shadow healing people Peter.
09:05 And what happened to Judas?
09:07 Hung himself. He went to hang himself.
09:09 The story are so parallel how could that be possible?
09:11 They both, you know? Something destruct me?
09:13 So, it would be a-- an accurate statement to say
09:17 that God's guilt in 2 Corinthians 7:10 says,
09:21 "That God's when he puts this guilt on you,
09:24 the remorse on you,
09:26 it's to lead you to repentance." Absolutely.
09:29 When the devil puts this guilt this accusation,
09:33 accusatory type guilt on you
09:35 it's to drive you further away from God.
09:38 Absolutely, and you--
09:39 and the very word that you brought up there
09:41 is the key to Satan's guilt.
09:43 Guilt by accusation. Okay.
09:45 See God's it's a--
09:47 it's a break down of love that creates this hurt,
09:50 with Satan its guilt by accusation.
09:52 And what does we see in Revelation 12,
09:54 what does the Bible say in Revelation 12:10?
09:56 Satan stands before God day and night accusing us.
10:00 So we know-- we know
10:02 and how does the accusation feels
10:04 compared to real guilt?
10:05 Now here is what Satan is really got to figure it out.
10:07 Because if I said you are the person
10:09 who burnt down the school house,
10:11 you started the fire to burn it down
10:13 and you didn't do it.
10:15 And so I said oh, no Shelley did it.
10:17 Well, now, all of a sudden rises on you.
10:18 Oh yeah, she did it, she did it.
10:20 What do you feel like?
10:21 Don't you feel guilty even though you didn't do it?
10:22 It's because the condemning finger is pointing at you
10:25 so you get that sense of hurt, that sense of emptiness,
10:29 that sense of rejection that comes along with,
10:31 you know in shame, that comes along with guilt.
10:33 It feels the same.
10:35 And so--so how do you deal with it then?
10:38 I mean so this is what Satan is gonna do.
10:40 He is going to accuse you.
10:41 Now here is the way, he is like a schoolyard boy.
10:44 He comes up to me leads me to sin.
10:46 He is one who leads me into sin,
10:47 and the second day sin what does he do?
10:48 He runs and tells this to God.
10:52 I mean this happened to me in the schoolyard.
10:53 You know, kids would say well, go behind the back
10:55 and smoke a cigarette
10:57 or do whatever else. So you take a puff.
10:58 Now right away the teacher hears about it.
11:00 You know, I mean that's the way Satan is.
11:02 And so, what he does then
11:04 but he doesn't like go that accusation.
11:06 Even though I may get punished for that
11:08 or I may or the teacher may just have grace
11:10 and say okay, don't do it again.
11:12 The bully is not going to let up
11:14 because he knows
11:15 that if he can thrown my sin in my face,
11:19 that it's gonna put my head down.
11:21 It's gonna separate me,
11:22 the sin separates we are told is Isaiah.
11:24 So sin separates
11:26 and the shame of guilt separates too
11:28 to the point where you can't no longer see God
11:30 and he is got a its an incredible deceitful things
11:33 he is got to figure it out here. Amen.
11:34 Because he holds the sin in front of our face.
11:37 Now, how can he do that?
11:39 So if you look at the mechanics of forgiveness
11:41 because that's what all starts.
11:43 We just, you just quoted for us in John 1:9
11:46 it says, if we confess our sins.
11:47 Now there's an interesting thing about confession.
11:50 Lot of times its easy to say,
11:52 forgive me of my sins that night.
11:55 It's just asking you to take care of it.
11:56 You know cover me, that's fine
11:57 but you know what, this is sin confess.
12:00 It says, bring him out in the opened
12:02 that's what confession means.
12:04 And I think God has a student
12:05 because if we don't know--
12:07 it's like we are not really recognizing,
12:10 I mean when you start confessing your sins,
12:12 you know, Lord, show me
12:13 how it found short of Your glory.
12:14 And He start showing you oops,
12:16 I didn't mean to gossip.
12:18 Oops, I have this judgmental thought.
12:21 And you confess it, it's like you really understand
12:24 as you are saying Lord, you are right.
12:26 I was judgmental today, forgive me.
12:28 You know, I know its against,
12:30 its something that it changes your heart
12:33 to go before the loving God
12:35 and to say I know this wasn't like your nature
12:38 and it makes you--I mean it's a growing process.
12:41 Confession is very much of growing process.
12:42 Absolutely, and the other thing is that
12:44 once you have confessed
12:45 like today and tomorrow the temptation comes
12:47 to lie again or whatever it is.
12:50 If I brought it out in the open
12:52 in humility the night before
12:53 and says please forgive this is what I did.
12:56 And I'm going to think twice about
12:59 that when the temptation comes again,
13:00 yes, I am going to think twice
13:02 because I brought it out in the open the night before.
13:04 And I share a story you're gonna love this one.
13:06 A pastor down in Huston was said that
13:09 he just really had a problem with exaggerating.
13:12 And so he said to--he made-- he prayed with the Lord.
13:16 The Lord-- he called it exaggeration
13:18 the Lord said no its lie.
13:20 So, he prayed to the Lord
13:21 and the Lord really impressed him
13:24 that from then on no matter where he was
13:26 that if he exaggerated he was to confess that it was a lie.
13:30 So he is in the pulpit and he is telling this story
13:32 and he just stops and he says I have to confess
13:35 I just exaggerated, excuse me.
13:36 No, I have tell you I just lied to you.
13:39 So it happened in a couple of weeks later
13:41 he is in pulpit and he has to say,
13:44 I am sorry that was a lie.
13:46 I mean that God told him just to be blunt about it.
13:48 And he said, let me tell you Shelley,
13:50 after two times confessing
13:51 to your congregation that you lied to.
13:53 He said you know what,
13:55 God cured me of telling these tails
13:58 and letting them grow as I told them.
14:00 And so there is something about confession
14:02 as you said that it brings
14:04 this--the painfulness of your sin to you to.
14:07 You recognize you are sinning against God,
14:09 but it makes you much more aware of you know,
14:12 you really do have an honest heart in saying Lord
14:15 grant me repent from this I want to turn away from it.
14:17 Yeah, it's because if you don't confront the issue.
14:19 Yeah. And head on so that it hurts
14:22 and it's shameful and it's humbling.
14:24 There is no-- no need for going.
14:26 So that's what--if you confess God is gonna forgive.
14:29 So what's involved in the forgiveness thing?
14:31 If you look at Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 12 it tells us this,
14:35 what happens to God?
14:36 God will forgive and forget.
14:38 Absolutely. And I find that really amazing
14:42 because how can-- how can a God with a mind
14:45 like His forget something like that?
14:47 And so-- but it's a statement of fact.
14:51 It's not a--may be it is a fact God will forgive
14:54 and He will forget.
14:55 So that's what happens to him.
14:57 So now the real problem is what happens to me?
14:59 Why do I wake up the next morning
15:00 with the same nagging guilt there?
15:03 It's because what supposed to happen to me may not
15:06 have happened either or I am responding to Satan.
15:10 And so if you look at Hebrews 9
15:13 it gives us-- it gives us an example.
15:16 Here it says "For I will
15:17 be merciful to their unrighteousness,"
15:18 Which verse you are reading? Verse--Hebrews 9
15:23 Well we are here, well 14, Okay 9:14
15:27 It says, "How much more
15:29 shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit
15:31 offered himself without spot to God,
15:33 purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God."
15:36 He is gonna purge something. What is the meaning to purge?
15:38 It means to get rid of it.
15:39 And want little more clear situation move on over
15:41 little bit to 10:2, Hebrew 10:2 it says this
15:47 "For then would they not have ceased to be offered?
15:49 Because," here is the because part,
15:51 "that the worshippers once purged
15:53 should have had no more conscience of sins."
15:57 Yeah, and the way it says in the amplifier
15:59 is so that they would no longer
16:00 have any guilt or consciousness of sin.
16:02 See so, okay so these are God's promises now.
16:05 Amen. And they are facts.
16:08 Let me share a thought with you real quick,
16:09 because I don't know if you are aware
16:10 of the scripture but this was life changing.
16:12 I mean, I read all of these scriptures
16:13 about how He is going to, you know,
16:16 come let us reason together Isaiah 1 where He says
16:19 "Though your sins be as scarlet,
16:21 I will make them white as snow."
16:22 And then He says, I'm gonna cast him
16:24 as far as that east is from the west and all this things."
16:27 But still it kept coming up to me to till I found
16:30 this scripture 1 Kings 14:8 and this is where God is,
16:35 told his Jeroboam's wife comes to the prophet of God
16:39 and God tells the prophet to tell her,
16:41 you go tell Jeroboam-- and by the way
16:44 this is Jeroboam's now the king and this is after
16:46 David-- David's death, King David.
16:49 "You go, tell Jeroboam, 'Thus says the Lord of Israel,'
16:52 'Because I exalted you from among the people,
16:54 and made you leader over My people Israel,
16:56 and took the kingdom away from the house of David,
16:59 and gave it to you, and yet you have not been
17:02 as My servant David, who" this is God speaking about
17:06 David after he died "who kept My commandments
17:10 and who followed Me with all his heart,
17:13 to do only what was right before My eyes."
17:17 I'm sitting there, I am looking at this
17:18 and I am thinking, you got to be kidding.
17:21 God is speaking saying that David did only what was right
17:25 before his eyes, kept all of his commandments.
17:27 David was guilty of breaking them all,
17:29 break one, break them all but I mean.
17:31 Absolutely. He was guilty,
17:33 he was coveting and adultery, murder, you know,
17:37 go write on down, and then it turned on me God
17:42 forget what we ask Him to forgive.
17:44 He really does, you know, in Psalm 51 is the record.
17:48 Psalm 51 is the record of David's repentance
17:51 after his adulterous relationship with Bathsheba
17:56 and he is saying, "blot out my sins and my iniquities."
18:01 God literally-- the scripture says,
18:04 that He blot some out like a cloud for his own name sake
18:08 he-- He covers them all for.
18:10 And it is for his benefit?
18:11 Yeah, so that He doesn't have to look at us and just say,
18:15 ah you are been a good girl now,
18:17 but I remember what it use to be like.
18:19 Absolutely, that is a good point,
18:20 because that is after the fact and so God doesn't remember it.
18:23 We can remember it because we look back
18:24 on the records and say, oh yeah, well he did this, he did that.
18:27 But in God's heart-- so that's the point
18:29 is what is wrong with the formula then,
18:33 if God says, if confess I will forgive,
18:37 I will forget and you will forget.
18:41 So how come it comes back after me the next day again.
18:43 Is my faith not such that I can believe
18:45 in God's promises, is God not caring through
18:49 with His promises or is it Satan keeping record
18:54 yet and he is one throwing it back into my face?
18:57 Yeah. And he brings that back
19:00 in my face because, if I want to dwell
19:02 in something that-- because I am not gonna listen
19:04 to the Bible's promises and the Bibles claims its facts
19:08 and I start focusing on the fact
19:10 that I got the sin, I got to rid of it.
19:12 I got the sin, I got to rid of it.
19:13 You know, I just can't handle
19:14 any more its ruining my health, its ruining everything
19:17 I'm going to start adopting legalism even though
19:19 we don't--you know, well say that.
19:21 We start pick up things, some people take up diets,
19:23 some takes other behavioral things
19:25 whatever, whatever we think
19:26 we can handle in terms of set of rules
19:27 we adopt it Pharisees were great at it.
19:30 Then we say okay, today I didn't do this,
19:31 didn't do that, dint do that.
19:33 And so I feel good about myself because I accomplish it,
19:36 so we use legalism as a score keeping card
19:41 to overcome something Satan has thrown at.
19:43 Define for us, what-- I mean because
19:46 different people use that word legalism.
19:48 Some people think legalism just means to obey
19:51 the Commandments of God which obviously is not.
19:53 No, absolutely. I mean that's not
19:55 what you're talking about, but--
19:56 It could be if--if-- If they think
19:59 they are gonna earn their salvation through keeping
20:01 the commandments because you can not earn your salvation.
20:04 That's right. It's a gift from God.
20:05 Now but what you are saying is to become forsake
20:09 where you have all these little rules and regulations
20:13 the traditions of man and its like you know,
20:16 get rid of my hair, straight back in a bun
20:18 and put my people always laugh when I say
20:20 this but you know, wear the longest skirts,
20:22 I do wear long skirts because I like long skirts
20:24 but you know there is some people that,
20:26 you know you got the little nine year old child
20:29 that has to have the skirt all the way down
20:31 to and they think that by making the external as Holy
20:37 as they can think to make it, that they are doing something
20:40 for God whereas what God wants
20:43 to do is to wash us from the inside.
20:44 It's the new covenant.
20:46 He wants to change the heart,
20:47 so there is no desire there to do it.
20:49 Okay, you know, you made a comment
20:51 that God forgets and that we will forget our sin.
20:54 But actually, we really don't forget our sin.
20:57 I think God has, you know, like we talk about
21:00 forgiving and forgetting He does.
21:02 We forgive but we are not able to forget yet,
21:05 and I think may be it's because God is leading
21:07 that for a protective measure that someone else
21:10 can't take advantage of us.
21:12 We know to, you know, may be they have to earn
21:14 their respect of trust again but also for our own self
21:18 that we may not forget that sin so that we won't fall back
21:22 into that sneer, yet what God does is through
21:25 the forgiveness process, He washes away
21:27 the gilt and condemnation.
21:29 We can remember this sin
21:31 and talk about it, give testament.
21:32 You see people who are in love with the Lord right now.
21:35 Yeah. Like Sherry Peters
21:36 is coming to my mind.
21:37 She can get up and talk about
21:39 when she was on the streets doing drugs,
21:42 was a poll dancer whatever, and she can talk about
21:46 that without guilt and remorse and condemnation
21:49 because God's brought her so far.
21:52 That's what gives her testimony.
21:54 Absolutely and that's what it says.
21:55 It says, it will purge your conscience.
21:57 That's the area where guilt resides
22:00 and where guilt draws you down.
22:01 And in course the other one we just read
22:03 in Hebrew 10:2 it says, "The worshipers
22:07 once purged should have had no more consciousness of sins."
22:09 Doesn't mean you don't remember that your sinful past
22:12 but it's no longer gonna haunt you,
22:14 its not gonna drag you down,
22:16 it's not gonna drive you legalism,
22:17 its not gonna sin separate you from God.
22:20 Because see sin held in your face is nothing
22:22 but an umbrella of separation between you and the father.
22:25 Yes, yes and so Satan is effectively used that
22:29 and so how do you get rid of it?
22:31 Well, first of all we have to constantly
22:33 go back to the mechanics of forgiveness.
22:35 The mechanics, you know, I hate to put it down
22:37 and in such mechanical terms
22:38 but the mechanics of forgiveness.
22:40 You confess His faith and just to forgive.
22:44 He is gonna forget those sins and bury them
22:46 as far as the east is from the west,
22:47 you said and in the bottom of the ocean.
22:50 Places back then they couldn't even comprehend
22:52 that they come back and then he is gonna subdue
22:55 our minds of the impact of that sin.
22:59 Yeah, we could still remember what we did,
23:00 its not going to raise our memory but it's going to raise
23:03 the pressure and the power of that.
23:05 So that when it comes up to next day after you have asked
23:08 for forgiveness and now you haven't to regurgitate
23:10 this bad thing that's happened
23:12 and now you have to try to deal with that again.
23:14 We should be able to recognize where this is coming from
23:18 and then know how to deal with it.
23:19 If you know Satan is throwing it on your face,
23:21 what do you do? What did Jesus say when Satan tempted,
23:23 or when Satan did-- said, be behind me.
23:25 It is written. And we have
23:27 and this is written and we have every right
23:30 to rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus and by the power
23:33 and the blood that he spilled on Calvary.
23:34 So when that sin comes back--
23:36 Could I just tweak that just a little bit?
23:37 Yeah. See I believe that even when,
23:41 Jesus was rebuking Satan, he said
23:44 the Lord rebuke ou he said.
23:46 I believe we have every right to say the Lord, rebuke it.
23:49 But I don't think. Wait, wait,
23:50 yeah but you now believe
23:51 what the power there is Jesus, the power is great.
23:54 So absolutely, so the point
23:55 is this we can rid ourselves of that hideous imitation guilt
24:01 that guilt that's a counterfeit.
24:05 It's an accusation.
24:06 I mean, I had people when they heard this.
24:07 I mean, I had a little old lady not too long ago,
24:10 3-4 years ago in the South Pacific,
24:13 I won't say where.
24:14 But anyway she came up she is probably
24:15 in her mid 70s when I share this and she came up
24:18 and she is crying to me and she says,
24:20 young man she says is that true?
24:23 That the words that Jesus and I said absolutely.
24:26 God is forgiven you and she told me about
24:28 how she had an affair with her best friend's husband
24:30 25 years early and she says we are still best friends.
24:32 He died-- her wife's husband.
24:36 She says there hasn't been a day,
24:38 in the last 25 years where that hasn't haunted me.
24:41 Bless her heart.
24:42 And she says for the first time in my life
24:44 I can say clear of it.
24:45 And you know, that's what in my life
24:47 was may be not to same level as that but the guilt
24:49 just kept calm pounding and haunting me until
24:51 I had to go in the Bible and pray down the Holy Spirit
24:54 to give me discernment to understand what is wrong.
24:57 Right. And when I recognized
25:00 that it's just another counterfeit meant to destroy us,
25:03 spiritually and addition to that emotionally
25:05 and physically as well.
25:08 I began to lay more claims to the Bible.
25:11 Amen. On that and it liberating me.
25:14 Hebrews 10:2, how does it read in your new Bible?
25:17 It says, "The worshippers once purged
25:19 should have had no more consciousness of sins."
25:21 No more consciousness of sin.
25:22 I was thinking if we are not purged of this guilt
25:26 and condemnation instead of having
25:29 no more consciousness of sin and a cleanse consciousness.
25:33 What we end up with can be a seared consciousness.
25:37 You know, you think of-- I was thinking of some stories
25:38 I have heard of Hells Angels who have sinned
25:42 so much that they get to the point where they feel,
25:45 I mean I heard a story about a man who believed in God
25:48 but he become Hells Angels and sinned so much
25:51 that his consciousness became seared
25:54 by this and he kept thinking, God can't forgive me.
25:57 I may as well I've done it all I may as well keep doing it.
26:00 And so there is that affect as well which is the absolute
26:04 polar opposite what God wants to do.
26:07 He wants to bring us before Him, bring us to that godly sorrow
26:11 and get us to confess and ask Him,
26:15 either way you got to ask God to forgiveness
26:17 because Acts 5:32 says,
26:20 it is God who grants forgiveness.
26:23 So you got to say Lord, give me the power
26:25 to turn away from the sin.
26:27 Work in me to willing to act according to your good purpose,
26:30 complete the good work You've began in me.
26:32 And trust that God is gonna be God, He is so merciful.
26:36 And what did Jesus do for us?
26:37 That's the foundation of it all.
26:39 Absolutely. I mean you know,
26:41 when He died in that cross, He deserved to die.
26:44 You know, we always says He didn't deserve, no He did. Why?
26:46 Because He so completely took my sins that He deserved that.
26:50 Because the way does the sin death,
26:52 He took my sin. It wasn't just some little light thing.
26:55 Yeah, we just--we'll just kind of make this little symbolism
26:57 that I took Herb's sins.
26:59 No, He took my sin so completely.
27:01 Yeah. That my condemnation
27:03 made Him hang there and cry out my God,
27:06 my God, not my Father, my Father but my God,
27:09 my God why have you forsaken me.
27:13 He is crying out my. Yeah.
27:17 My agony. You know Herb,
27:19 this has been such a enlightening topic.
27:22 I am so glad that we decided to talk about this for today.
27:24 Thank you, so much for being back.
27:26 Our time is already gone. Yeah, I know.
27:28 Thank you, so much.
27:29 And for those of you at home, I pray that you remember
27:32 what Paul said, there is now therefore,
27:35 no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
27:39 If you have confessed your sins and ask God to forgive
27:41 in you then you just do not take that baton of condemnation
27:46 from Satan what he try's to pass it off to you.
27:48 Okay, now may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
27:51 the love of the Father and the fellowship
27:53 of Holy Spirit be with you always.