Participants: J.D. Quinn (Host), Mike and Gayle Tucker
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000266
00:29 Welcome to Issues and Answers.
00:31 My name is J.D. Quinn. We have an interesting topic today,
00:36 marriage. I always like to start off with a scripture.
00:40 We're going to go to Genesis 2:24.
00:43 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be
00:48 united to his wife and they will become one flesh.
00:51 To break marriage down, we're going to talk about marital
00:56 expectations and we have some experts here on marital
01:00 expectations. Pastors Mike and Gayle Tucker from Arlington,
01:05 Texas. Welcome to Issues and Answers. Thank you.
01:09 Share real quickly something about yourself.
01:13 We are from Arlington. In Arlington we have a church that
01:17 we pastor together of almost 1800 members now.
01:21 And I understand that you're
01:23 commissioned and a credentialed
01:24 pastor yourself. Yes I am. I stay busy with the
01:28 children's ministries, women's ministries, kind of
01:32 administrative duties around the church and worship and music.
01:37 That's right, and I'm the senior pastor but I also am speaker/
01:41 director for Faith for Today television. So we try to combine
01:45 all that together. We shoot one of the programs there at the
01:49 church when we do worship and then we also do Lifestyle
01:52 Magazine, The Evidence and a few other things like that.
01:55 Wasn't that William Fagal?
01:57 Yes William Fagal started this in 1950, May of 1950.
02:01 I know when I was growing up we used to always listen to
02:05 Faith for Today. Yes, that's right. We did too.
02:06 William and Virginia. Virginia is still alive and well.
02:09 She's doing great. Still driving her can in L.A. traffic.
02:12 Oh my goodness. Frightens me but she'll do it.
02:14 She's just as sharp as they come.
02:17 Marital expectations. Man that's a biggie right there because
02:23 I'm assuming what you're saying is that you enter into a
02:26 marriage expecting something. Where do we go with this?
02:29 They're kind of silent expectations. We don't always
02:32 know, we don't always put our finger on them and yet...
02:35 In research that was done over 20 years it was discovered that
02:40 there are about five things for men and about five things for
02:46 women that are typically their most common needs; the things
02:51 that they need in marriage.
02:53 These tend to be emotional needs and basically the person who
02:57 meets these emotional needs for you becomes irresistible.
03:01 Now the research was done by Willard Harley; most of this was
03:05 done by him. He's got a book entitled His Needs, Her Needs:
03:08 Building an Affair Proof Marriage and now he's working
03:11 with his daughter who is named Jennifer Chalmers and she also
03:16 has co-authored a book with him as well: How to Survive an
03:19 Affair. But they deal with these basic emotional needs in
03:24 marriage. Now we have added an emotional need that Harley has
03:28 not added and that is the need for spiritual intimacy. I think
03:31 that women are usually more keenly aware of this need than
03:35 are men, but it is a need that both of us have and when we find
03:40 that genuine spirituality together it draws us together,
03:44 it makes us one. In fact, I think that when a man is truly
03:48 the spiritual leader of his home and by that I mean a gracious
03:52 gentle, loving, kind leader who leads by example rather than by
03:57 fiat, that makes that man almost irresistible to his wife because
04:01 it draws her to him because that's what a woman really wants
04:05 in her home is a gentle, kind, spiritual leader.
04:08 That's absolutely true. You can talk to almost any young woman
04:13 who has any kind of a Christian or spiritual background and one
04:16 thing that she wants is to have someone who will be a spiritual
04:20 leader, who will share that with her. Sometimes guys don't
04:24 recognize that fact. They think they have to be Mr. Handsome.
04:27 They have to have the right car, they have to make enough money,
04:30 and they don't realize that what she really wants is someone
04:33 that's willing to connect with God.
04:35 And lead that whole family in that process. Gayle tells me
04:41 that she's most attracted to me when I preach.
04:44 That's really true. Which just shocked me to no
04:48 end, it really did. But that makes me feel good to know that
04:53 I can be a spiritual mentor for my wife; as I preach that that
04:59 draws her to me. What makes it absolutely to me
05:04 fantastic is that this is when the Holy Spirit is working
05:08 through you and this is when Pastor Mike Tucker probably is
05:13 at his best because he is surrendered to the Holy Spirit.
05:16 So that says a lot about you of what you're seeing in your
05:20 husband. And even though all of us are
05:23 imperfect people, Mike is an imperfect person, I can see a
05:27 consistency in his life that what he preaches is what he
05:31 also endeavors to live out in his life at home. And if that
05:36 were not true... There are a lot of pastors wives who don't ever
05:40 want to hear their husband preach because there's an
05:43 incongruence there. But if there is a congruency between what he
05:47 says in the pulpit and what he lives in his life, then that's
05:50 extremely attractive because I know that he's allowing the Lord
05:55 to speak and he's putting his efforts into sharing that with
06:00 people around. And I think that women will see
06:03 spirituality as a gentleness. Sometimes as a man we think
06:08 well I'm going to make the family toe the line. I've got
06:11 this, this and this we're going to do. I'm going to get it
06:15 organized. But I think that a woman sees genuine spirituality
06:19 in someone who leads by example and is gentle and kind and
06:22 loving and respectful for others.
06:24 Well spirituality is simply living out the spirit of Christ.
06:28 And to know that you husband would deal with the family in
06:32 the way that Christ dealt with people and that your wife would
06:36 deal with the family in the way that Christ dealt with people.
06:40 There's a gentleness and a love that just surpasses everything
06:43 else and you can't get better than that.
06:46 No you can't. Men and women both have this
06:49 need but the problem is that after that the needs get
06:52 different. Women need a different set of things than
06:56 men do emotionally in marriage. Okay and they are?
07:00 Okay and again Willard Harley has shared this. I'm going to
07:03 share with you first of all some of the women's needs and I do
07:06 that for a specific reason. God has invited men to be head of
07:09 the household and that does not mean that we're the lawgiver
07:12 but it means that we take the initiative in love first.
07:16 Jesus said husbands love your wives even as Christ loved the
07:19 church and gave himself for it. Christ had a self-sacrificial
07:22 love for the church and that's how we are to love our wives.
07:26 So basically we are to meet the needs of our wives first
07:29 because if she meets our needs without our having met hers she
07:34 feels cheap and tawdry and we don't want to go there. So the
07:37 very first need that I think most women have in marriage is
07:41 the need for affection. And affection is different than
07:46 foreplay. There's a big confusion of that in most men's
07:50 minds. Affection is romance. It's tenderness, it's kindness,
07:54 it's sitting on the couch and cuddling, it's giving her
07:57 flowers for no reason, it's remembering birthdays and
08:00 holidays and anniversaries with sentimental rather than
08:04 practical gifts. It's telling her that she's pretty. It's
08:07 remembering those times together That's affection. It's basically
08:12 romance, the knight in shining armor it is to be.
08:15 And even above romance I think affection for a woman is
08:23 gentleness and tenderness and most often it's played out in
08:31 the tone of voice. When Mike
08:33 speaks to me if he speaks to me
08:36 with respect and gentleness and
08:38 tenderness, that's going to go
08:40 far above just about anything else. That their affection is
08:45 touch but it's nonsexual touch. It's just a touch that says I
08:50 care about you, it's holding hands or its just rubbing the
08:55 shoulders or just a gentle touch as you pass in the hallway.
09:00 An arm around the shoulder. It's holding one another but not
09:04 necessarily. It's just the communication of
09:08 all sorts that says I love you I value you, you are a person
09:13 that I want to be with. That's right.
09:15 Well hope men are listening to
09:17 this because this is a tough
09:20 issue right here because there
09:21 are mixed signals aren't there?
09:23 If the only time that I touch my wife is when I want something
09:27 from her, she will resent my touch, she will resent it.
09:32 The second need for women is conversation.
09:35 And conversation... they say that women have more words than
09:40 men and men use theirs all up while they're out at work and
09:44 then they don't have any to use at home, but I don't know if
09:49 that's true or not. Well I think that's true.
09:53 For a lot of men I think so.
09:54 But I do know that women desire to share their lives through
09:58 conversation, through just talking about the day's events.
10:01 Talking about what's happening in your life, what's happening
10:06 in my life. Men can help fulfill that need by simply thinking
10:11 throughout the day, you know this happened; I'm going to
10:14 share this with my wife when I get home. Think up a few things
10:19 that you can tell her about and you can share. Women are also
10:23 looking for conversation that's uninterrupted, that's not over
10:28 the paper, Yes hon, you know and the paper's still there.
10:33 Why are you giggling here? She knows you're not listening
10:38 when you do that. You know, our lives are busy and
10:43 there are so many things going on that sometimes it's hard to
10:46 ever find time to just actually sit down and face-to-face,
10:50 eye-to-eye to share with one another but it's important to do
10:53 that or even at night when you are lying in bed before you go
10:57 to sleep to just talk together, share the day's events, share
11:01 something you read from the Bible, talk about what happened
11:04 with the children and just make sure that there are times that
11:08 you actually spend together and that you share together.
11:11 Another need for women is the need for commitment.
11:14 Women need to know that their husband is committed to the
11:19 family, that their family comes above work and all the other
11:24 things, hobbies, the golf game, whatever. Not that those things
11:28 are not important and that he shouldn't be able to engage in
11:32 those. Those are important as well, but you can send a
11:36 message to your wife that says above all of those things come
11:40 you and the children if there are children in your home.
11:44 That I am totally committed to you. God has given you to me
11:48 and I will do everything in my power to let you know that I
11:52 love you, that I will provide a secure place for you, I am
11:56 committed to this family.
11:57 Women spell commitment the same way they spell love, T-I-M-E.
12:02 So if I'm giving adequate time to my wife and to my family then
12:07 they know that I'm committed and
12:09 that I love. There's only one
12:10 commitment in my life that can
12:12 supersede my commitment to my
12:13 wife and my family and that is my commitment to Jesus Christ.
12:17 But everything else comes after my family and that's commitment
12:20 It means that the word divorce is not going to enter my
12:23 vocabulary. We're going to find options, we're going to find
12:26 solutions to our problems. Another need for women in
12:30 marriage has to do with openness and honesty. That means that my
12:35 life has to be transparent before Gayle and I have to be
12:38 totally honest before her. I can't have hidden emotions
12:42 before this woman. When she says what's wrong and I say nothing,
12:45 it had better be nothing or I have just been closed before
12:49 this woman. So I need to be open and honest about my emotions,
12:53 but I also need to be open and honest about the events of my
12:57 life. We've been married for 31 years and Gayle has never had
13:02 reason to doubt my fidelity and yet to this day she has my
13:06 permission to check my Day Timer to call me to check on me.
13:10 I'm not going to lie to her. I want to be honest about the
13:13 events of my life, about the schedule of my day so that she
13:17 has perfect trust in me. That is something that I must earn
13:23 from her. I must win that right for her to trust me. And I do
13:28 that by openness and by honesty. Some men lie in order to protect
13:31 their spouse. That's always a mistake. Some men lie in order
13:35 to protect themselves, that's a bigger mistake. Some men lie
13:38 because they're habitual liars. You know they're lying, their
13:41 lips are moving. That's even the biggest mistake, because a woman
13:44 has to be able to trust you, to know that what you are saying
13:48 is true. You have to be open and honest before her or else how
13:52 could she give herself and her life to you. She's taken on your
13:56 name, she's surrendered most everything else about her life
13:59 in order to be with your and if you're not going to be open and
14:03 honest with her there can be no trust. So openness and honesty
14:06 are very essential I think in this relationship.
14:09 The last of the most common five needs is financial support.
14:14 It's important to a woman to know that her husband desires
14:18 to support the family, that he wants to be the breadwinner.
14:23 He wants to make sure that there is enough, that things are
14:27 provided. Now that doesn't mean that the woman can't also work
14:30 and most women don't resent having to contribute, helping
14:36 out if they have to work part time or full time as long as
14:41 they know that within his heart is the idea that he is the
14:45 provider for this family and that he desires to do that.
14:50 He desires to provide. It does not have to be millions of
14:55 dollars or anything like that.
14:56 Which is fortunate for me.
14:58 Yeah, it's a good thing.
14:59 Because I'm not going to make millions of dollars.
15:02 We run across situations every once in a while where the woman
15:08 provides more funds than the man brings in. Sometimes that's a
15:14 problem for the man. It is sometimes for the man.
15:16 Sometimes it becomes an issue. I think for most women it does
15:21 not matter, you know, if I made more money than Mike but I still
15:26 know that he considers himself to be the provider. Then to me
15:30 that need is fulfilled. He's doing everything that he can do
15:35 in his area, his career, whatever it happens to be.
15:38 Men have to be open minded enough about this to realize
15:40 that their position as a man is not determined by how much money
15:46 they make or whether or not they make more than their wife.
15:49 There has to be a level of security within a man to be able
15:52 to deal with that. But still if the desire of his heart is to
15:56 provide for his wife, that's all we're talking about, that's the
16:00 key. There's a miracle to me that
16:01 happens. You know, Mike and I came from different backgrounds,
16:05 didn't know each other until a few months before we got
16:08 married and on the day we got married suddenly there is in
16:14 this man's heart a desire to support me financially. All of a
16:19 sudden everything that he has is mine. Do you have money for
16:23 this, do you need that. That's just miraculous in my mind.
16:27 It's something that God puts in the heart of a man and it's a
16:31 wonderful thing and it fulfills a great need within me because
16:35 it gives me security of knowing that he desires to care for me
16:39 and my family. Wonderfully put, that is
16:43 wonderfully put. It's so true.
16:45 Those are the five most basic needs for a woman in marriage.
16:49 And every woman may be a little bit different. Some women may
16:53 say well that one is not on my list or that would be a
16:55 different order and that's fine. It doesn't make them strange,
16:59 it makes them you, you know, I mean it's okay to be that way
17:02 as long as you know what that list is and you share that with
17:05 your husband. And your husband needs to know what that is.
17:08 Now those needs must be met in order for the husband's needs to
17:12 be met or again the woman will feel cheap and tawdry. So let's
17:15 go to the man's needs and the number one need for most men
17:19 in marriage is sexual fulfillment and that means that
17:23 she is available for and willing to be a participant in the act
17:26 of love making. Again, not every man will be on that same page
17:30 some will have a different list and that's fine; it doesn't make
17:33 them less of a man. But most men will report that this is the
17:36 number one way that their wife can demonstrate to them that
17:39 she loves him and that she cares for him. Now there's an
17:42 interesting thing about this particular need. A man is
17:46 completely vulnerable to a wife for this need. Gayles need for
17:49 conversation I need to be the number one supplier of that but
17:52 she can also talk to other people and fulfill some of that
17:56 need. Affection: I'm the number one supplier for that but she
17:59 can also have hugs with other people or have other people
18:02 say nice things to her and it doesn't violate the marriage.
18:05 But if I fulfill any portion of my need for sexual fulfillment
18:09 outside of the marriage vow, the marriage relationship, I have
18:12 just violated the marriage vow which makes me totally dependent
18:15 before this woman for this particular need. So a lot of
18:18 communication has to go on here to know exactly am I meeting
18:22 that need, is this being fulfilled in you. And that's the
18:26 number one need for most men in marriage is sexual fulfillment.
18:29 The second need is for an attractive spouse. That doesn't
18:33 mean that she has to be some model pertaining to this
18:38 unrealistic idea of feminine beauty that we have because of
18:41 the media today. That's not what we're talking about at all.
18:46 It means that Gayle does her best to make herself attractive
18:49 for me. She dresses well. She takes care of her hair. She
18:53 keeps her weight in line. She does her best to make herself
18:57 look good for me. I even tell women that what they wear to bed
19:02 should be attractive. We have a little agreement; I buy Gayle's
19:06 nighties. You know if she wears it to bed it's because I bought
19:10 it. Now I've learned over the years not to have as many
19:13 mistakes in what I buy. I've got a drawer full of mistakes where
19:18 she said over my dead body and so that goes over here; it won't
19:21 be worn, but I have learned what she feels comfortable wearing
19:25 and what I like seeing her in so that's what I buy for her.
19:29 Because Gayle wants to look nice for me. In the back of every
19:33 man's mind he understands something that he may not be
19:37 able to put in words and that is that is that in part his
19:41 competence as a man will be judged by other men by what
19:45 his wife looks like. Now there's nothing fair about this, there's
19:50 nothing right about it but this is just life as it is; that
19:54 other men will judge you and your competence by how your wife
19:58 looks and by the way, you look pretty good because of her.
20:02 You've married an attractive woman.
20:04 Well I think so. She's intelligent and competent
20:09 as well and a spiritual woman as well which makes you look
20:12 very good. And I feel the same thing is true in my life as well
20:17 It is true. So my competence as a man is
20:21 gaged in part by how she looks but also a man is visually
20:25 stimulated even more so than a woman is. We are visual
20:29 creatures and so it's important that she does her best to look
20:31 her best for me. So those are the first two needs.
20:35 All right. The next one is a recreational companion.
20:38 recreational companionship is important for men. When you
20:42 think about how people get together when they date at first
20:45 there are things that they do together that they really enjoy.
20:49 Often we have the problem of
20:51 once we kind of get into the daily grind of being married
20:54 we stop doing those things and
20:56 the man is going well how come
20:58 we never go play anymore? How
21:00 come we never do this and the wife is going well I'm busy, you
21:04 go ahead, go out and go on with the guys. Well the fact is women
21:08 bond by shared emotions.
21:10 And that's why the conversation thing is so important to them.
21:13 That's important. But men bond by shared activity and women
21:17 need to be aware of that. So if men are bonding to the people
21:20 that they are sharing activity with who do you want them to
21:24 bond with? Do you always want your husband to be out bonding
21:27 with someone else or do you want them to bond with you? So we
21:30 need to maintain a playful attitude. Let's have fun
21:34 together, let's do things together; whatever it happens
21:38 to be. Maybe you like to golf together. Maybe you like to play
21:43 chess together. Maybe you're bird watchers. Whatever you
21:47 happen to do don't stop doing it. Women need to be aware that
21:52 their husband is drawn close to them when they have this
21:57 activity together. They need a buddy and a pal.
21:59 I know in our situation, I love
22:02 to play golf. Well and what does
22:04 Shelley do? She goes out and
22:06 takes lessons. I'm more athletic
22:08 that Shelley is and so it comes
22:10 easier for me than it does for her but she goes out and she
22:13 takes lessons and she's right out there playing and it brings
22:17 joy to my heart. Absolutely. You can do it
22:20 together. You know, we actually did the same thing. We play golf
22:25 together and Mike is a much better golfer than I am so we
22:29 figured out how to do it for the two of us. We play best ball
22:33 when we go together. That way he's not up on the green and I'm
22:37 out in the trees somewhere. Whoever hits the best shot
22:42 that's where we go and sometimes we take mine. I usually tell him
22:48 whenever we take the first shot of mine during the day I'm like
22:55 okay I'm good now. I had some value in coming here today
22:59 because we took one of my shots. But it works well for us to do
23:04 that. It does. And we're both
23:05 competitive so we also have another agreement with our golf
23:08 game. We don't give golf tips to one another. We don't go there.
23:14 Then we have a great time together, we really do.
23:17 Yeah, we just enjoy being out there. No phones, no
23:19 anything. Well we better move on.
23:22 Okay. The next one has to do with domestic support. Now you
23:27 notice I didn't say a domestic slave, but domestic support.
23:30 I help around the house and especially when the children
23:34 were in the home and Gayle had to go back to work, I became
23:38 laundry man. To this day it's been 20 some years and I still
23:42 sort, I know how to do delicates I can presoak, I separate colors
23:46 well and so I do laundry. That's what I do to help around the
23:49 house, one of the things I do. But the homemaker...
23:52 Man your stock just went way up.
23:54 But the homemaker in my home is definitely Gayle.
24:00 She decorates our home. She's the cook. When the children were
24:04 small it was my turn to cook they really did not appreciate
24:08 the charcoal that I offered them so they learned rather quickly
24:12 in self-defense. But Gayle is a wonderful homemaker, a cook
24:16 and raising our children, I participated in raising our
24:20 children. I was a part of that, but I have to tell you the
24:23 lion's share of the work was done by Gayle. And we have
24:27 wonderful children. They love the Lord, they're active in
24:30 his service today, but I believe that a lot of that has to do
24:34 with Gayle's activity in the home. She was definitely the
24:37 homemaker and made it work for us.
24:39 The very last one is ego support You know ego is a fragile thing.
24:45 Basically he needs to know from his wife that he is respected
24:51 and loved and supported; that she looks at him and says you
24:55 know you are a valuable person and that she communicates that
24:59 to him. Often it's easy for women to get caught up in well
25:03 we need to fix this and this and this and that seems to be all he
25:07 hears when he walks through the door. Well did you take care of
25:10 that, what about that, is this done?
25:12 And why hasn't this happened yet
25:13 Why haven't you done whatever and the list goes on. It's not
25:18 that she doesn't love him or care for him but she's not
25:22 conscious of the fact that she needs to show him admiration.
25:27 A man needs to be admired by his wife and it's amazing what
25:31 happens when you express to your husband that you know you did
25:36 that really well. Thank you for doing this with the kids today.
25:40 You just notice the fact that he's made an effort to do
25:43 something for his family. Pretty soon you'll find him doing all
25:47 kinds of things because people respond to that and especially
25:51 men respond to knowing that they are admired and respected.
25:54 When men don't receive the respect that they think they
25:58 deserve they withdraw. They just say well forget it. If this is
26:01 the way it's going to be I'm just out of here and they shut
26:04 down emotionally and physically they shut down.
26:07 And nagging comes into this.
26:09 Well it does. You know all of a sudden you've
26:11 lost that motivation. You can destroy a man's
26:13 masculinity by nagging. You just destroy him and he no
26:16 longer feels a man. But a man believes what his wife tells him
26:20 and if she tells you you're the greatest thing on two wheels
26:23 he's going to believe you.
26:25 Well needless to say the clock is our enemy once again.
26:32 In one minute wrap this up.
26:35 We all come to marriage with expectations and needs and most
26:39 of those needs are emotional. When our spouse meets those
26:44 needs we become irresistible to that person. No one is ever
26:47 going to meet those needs perfectly. What we have to do
26:51 is we view 100% effort as having perfectly met my need. If she's
26:56 trying it's met and I'm going to value that and I'm going to
27:00 celebrate that and rejoice in that. So our job is to
27:03 understand what our spouse's needs are and give ourselves
27:06 to meeting those needs.
27:07 Amen. Fifteen seconds. What would you say?
27:10 Well I would say that God has given us a wonderful gift in one
27:14 another and when we take the time to try to meet the needs
27:19 of the other individual we will be rewarded far beyond what we
27:24 could imagine. It is an absolute joy to spend
27:28 time with you. You know I just so much welcome you to Issues
27:31 and Answers. I know that you're a blessing to many people out
27:36 there. In closing I would just like to once again just bring to
27:41 your mind the will of God and that is for us to rejoice always
27:45 pray without ceasing and to give all thanks to him.
27:50 We thank you from 3ABN Issues and Answers.
27:53 God bless each one of you.