Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), G. Edward Reid
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000246
00:29 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:31 Welcome again to Issues and Answers.
00:33 Hey, today is a program you're not going to want to miss,
00:36 especially if you find yourself in debt, because we're going
00:39 to be talking about how to get out of debt for good.
00:43 Let me share a scripture with you.
00:44 It comes from Romans 13 and it's verse 8.
00:48 This is Paul's advice.
00:50 He says, Keep out of debt and owe no man anything
00:55 except to love one another.
00:57 And here with us today, returning again,
01:00 is a very special guest, G. Edward Reid.
01:02 He is the Stewardship Director for the North American Division
01:06 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
01:08 Ed is a man who, well, not only is he an attorney and financial
01:12 planner, but he is a man who by practical experience has lived
01:17 through this, learned how to put Bible principles into practice
01:23 for money management and how to get out of debt.
01:25 He's written a wonderful book called It's Your Money Isn't It?
01:29 Ed thank you so much for coming back again.
01:32 Well thank you for having me.
01:33 It's a pleasure to be here.
01:34 The topic today is going to be a real interesting one and I know
01:37 will help lots of people.
01:39 You know, when we were out at So cal I was one of the
01:42 speakers and you were doing a breakout session.
01:44 All of your sessions had a lot of people in attendance because
01:49 people need to know what to do with money.
01:51 That's true.
01:52 The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil.
01:57 It isn't money that's the root of all evil unless you're
02:00 in debt, is it?
02:01 That's true.
02:02 What is your definition of debt?
02:03 Well, debt is kind of interesting.
02:05 People ask me, well, you know, because I have to pay my phone
02:08 bill each month, is that a debt?
02:09 Actually, what I say of debt is that it's living today on money
02:14 that you expect to earn in the future.
02:16 Frequently people are involved in living their life way beyond
02:21 where they have the money.
02:23 Something real, real interesting happens.
02:25 That is that we are encouraged to get into debt
02:28 by the government.
02:29 I'll just tell you that how last year more than seven billion
02:35 offers came through the mail in American from credit card
02:39 companies encouraging people to get new credit cards and so on.
02:43 This is really, really incredible.
02:45 It's so easy to get into debt, but what they don't tell you
02:48 is if you're late on one payment, or you can't make a
02:50 payment, they're really going to put you through the cleaners.
02:53 They're going to turn you in.
02:54 You know, all kinds of things like that.
02:55 Hard things happen to people.
02:56 But it is highly advertised.
02:59 It's probably the most highly advertised commodity in America.
03:02 That is debt.
03:04 You know, I was thinking when you said encouraged to get into
03:06 debt, even student loans, which we may have time to touch on,
03:09 or credit cards, especially for the younger people who don't
03:14 have a clue about how to manage their money.
03:17 Do you think the reason why so many people are in debt today is
03:21 because we have become a society that wants
03:24 immediate gratification?
03:25 Apparently so because years ago we'd talk to people who said,
03:31 Well, you know, my husband, or my wife, when we got married
03:34 we decided we weren't going to do anything unless we had the
03:35 money to do it.
03:36 The amazing thing is very few people are like that anymore.
03:41 For example, I don't know what the percentage is, but a very
03:43 high percentage of people finance their automobiles,
03:46 or they lease a car, so they have monthly payments on this
03:49 all the time.
03:50 Those are the kind of things that we need to be really
03:52 be concerned about.
03:53 Ed you and I both are living testimonies that it is possible
03:58 to get out of debt.
03:59 I believe people believe that, but is it possible to stay
04:04 out of debt in today's society?
04:06 Well, the interesting thing is that we're always encouraged
04:09 to get into debt, but I think the answer to that is yes.
04:12 It just basically is like our Christian commitment.
04:15 We have to make a decision that we want to live debt free.
04:17 There are many things in life based on decision.
04:21 For example, I decided that I wanted to live healthfully.
04:25 Now I could gorge on food and balloon way up, and so on,
04:29 but you just have to decide that when you have enough
04:31 you stop eating, etc.
04:33 Other people have different problems, but I'm just going to
04:35 use that as an illustration.
04:36 Well, the same thing is, I'd like to have more things than
04:39 I have, but if I did I'd have to get them on credit because
04:43 they're not in my budget.
04:44 Do you see the point?
04:46 Lots of people spend beyond their means, so the real thing
04:50 is will you be willing to live within your means?
04:52 Whatever your income is that's what you spend.
04:55 If you make that decision, obviously, then you have to
04:58 gradually move toward it.
05:00 Spending money you don't have can be a lifestyle.
05:05 I hate to mention it but, it's almost addictive.
05:08 You know.
05:09 Do you see what I'm saying?
05:11 Especially with credit cards.
05:13 Because people forget.
05:15 They go out and they see something that they want.
05:16 They've got this line of credit on their credit card.
05:18 They want it.
05:19 They want it now.
05:20 They get it.
05:21 And they forget about how they have to pay that off.
05:22 We see this all the time at the end of the Christmas season
05:26 where people go out and they get into this generous giving mood,
05:29 and they'll charge it up on their credit cards.
05:31 Then, sometimes, it takes them until the next Christmas
05:34 to get that paid off with that interest.
05:36 Now you teach a three step simple process for getting
05:41 out of debt.
05:42 Would you share that with us?
05:43 Yes, and do you know the amazing thing is, when I go and do
05:45 seminars, a lot of times people will come to me who have
05:48 been before.
05:50 I did one in Hagerstown, Maryland and a man up in
05:52 Pennsylvania drove down the first night and said, I don't
05:55 need to be here because you gave this at our camp meeting last,
05:57 well, two years ago, he said.
05:59 He said my wife and I decided we were going to try to put this
06:02 into practice and see if we could do it.
06:03 But, he said, just a month ago we made the last payment
06:05 on our house.
06:06 We're debt free.
06:07 We don't owe anybody anything.
06:08 I've just come tonight to say thank you.
06:10 Lots of people have told me similar stories.
06:12 So it is possible.
06:13 I know from my own testimony, your testimony, many people,
06:16 that making the decision and finding a plan.
06:19 So here's the three step plan.
06:21 It's real simple.
06:22 It's almost a four step plan because there's a basic premise.
06:27 The basic premise is that you're going to be faithful with your
06:30 tithe, or be on Biblical principles.
06:32 Do you see what I'm saying?
06:33 And, of course, that would include tithing.
06:34 This is a good question because you don't tithe to get
06:40 blessings, you tithe the blessings you already have.
06:42 So you're going to say, I'm going to start with what you're
06:44 giving me, and I'm going to faithful.
06:45 But God has promised that He will rebuke the devourer for our
06:48 sake and open the windows of heaven, and you know, all of
06:50 these things.
06:51 Put Me first and I'll bless all the work of your hands,
06:53 and so on.
06:54 There's many, many promises in the Bible.
06:56 So I would just say establish that principle.
06:58 And someone comes to me and says, Well, I can barely make my
07:01 house payment.
07:02 How could I start tithing?
07:03 I say, well, you know, you're the kind of person that needs
07:05 God's help more than most anybody.
07:08 So put God first and then He'll bless you.
07:10 There's many, many testimonies that that is true.
07:13 I mean this is antidotal, as we say.
07:14 There are many stories that would confirm that that's
07:16 the case.
07:17 It wouldn't make sense to a CPA, by the way, unless he was
07:20 a Christian.
07:22 Do you understand?
07:23 But you start there.
07:24 That's the foundation.
07:25 Then there are basically three principles that I'll share
07:27 with you.
07:28 The first one is declare a moratorium on debt.
07:31 You're just going to say, I'm not going to buy anything more
07:33 on credit.
07:34 That starts there because even if you started paying off
07:38 the other ones, if you kept going in debt you never would
07:40 catch up.
07:42 So you just say, I'm not going to buy anything on credit.
07:43 That's the first one.
07:44 I say a moratorium on debt.
07:45 The second one is very interesting.
07:48 That is to make a covenant with God that from this point on
07:53 any unexpected blessings that you get you will know
07:57 what it's for.
07:58 It will be to put on your debts.
07:59 Now this is real interesting because most of us know
08:02 pretty much, in fact, we have our check direct deposited,
08:06 but it's the same every month.
08:07 So even before we get the stub Kathy can put in the checkbook
08:11 how much it is.
08:12 So if we got money we weren't expecting, that would be what
08:14 most of us call a windfall.
08:16 You know, some money you weren't expecting.
08:18 That happens to people occasionally.
08:20 Even like your income tax, or whatever.
08:22 You're expecting that, but it's beyond your normal budget.
08:24 I would just tell people make a covenant with God.
08:29 Sometimes people actually write it out, or they make a prayer.
08:32 Kathy and I did this.
08:34 We knelt down beside our bed.
08:35 It was in April of 1987.
08:38 We were living in Georgia, and the dogwoods were blooming
08:40 around our yard.
08:41 I can remember the very day.
08:42 We knelt down and we said to God, We don't think it's
08:44 honoring You for us to be paying all this interest.
08:47 So what we're going to do is we're going to make a covenant
08:49 with You.
08:50 We're going to promise You that any extra money we get from any
08:52 source, we're going to put it on our debts until we're debt free.
08:55 Now I believe that's very, very important for this reason.
08:58 This is the first principle.
09:00 No more credit spending.
09:01 The second one, make a covenant or promise with God.
09:04 This is amazing now, what I'm going to ask you.
09:06 Do you think God wants your family in debt?
09:08 Absolutely not.
09:11 So once you make the covenant, would it be logical for Him
09:14 to want to bless you because He knows what your plan will be
09:17 with the extra funds?
09:19 Lots of people have said, You know, when we made the promise
09:22 we were getting blessings.
09:23 Here's the problem though, see, if you don't make the promise.
09:26 A man told me one time, We got $2500 we weren't expecting
09:29 and I said to my wife, How did God know we needed a new
09:33 riding lawn mower?
09:34 So he just went out and bought himself something else.
09:35 Do you see what I'm saying?
09:37 But if you'd made the covenant, and you got $2500, you'd pay
09:40 one of your credit cards off.
09:41 Do you see what I'm saying?
09:42 That's the way it is.
09:43 So you tell God any extra money from any source beyond what
09:47 I normally spend for my living expenses, I'm going to put it on
09:49 debt till we're debt free.
09:50 That's the second one.
09:51 That's the covenant.
09:53 The most interesting thing is there's just so many stories.
09:58 I could tell you stories that when I do it brings tears
10:00 eyes, what God did for our family.
10:02 A year and a half after we made the promise we were debt free
10:04 except for our home mortgage.
10:05 All of our consumer debt was completely paid off.
10:07 Before long we even paid our house off.
10:11 Now this is amazing because when we moved to
10:13 Washington, D. C., it's so much more expensive there,
10:15 we had to get a second mortgage.
10:16 I mean a mortgage again.
10:18 The first mortgage up there.
10:19 But we've since paid that one off because we know how
10:22 to do it now.
10:23 Do you see what I'm saying?
10:24 Now that's the incredible.
10:25 So the first one: moratorium; no more credit spending.
10:27 The second one the covenant with God.
10:28 The third one is very interesting, and that is list
10:32 all of your debts.
10:33 I encourage people to make an inverted triangle, you know,
10:37 with the point at the bottom.
10:38 Put the largest debt at the top.
10:40 For most people that would be their home mortgage.
10:42 But the amazing thing about this is, this is really incredible
10:45 to me, I've counseled many couples when one of them was the
10:52 Let's just say the wife was the manager, as Kathy is
10:54 in our case.
10:55 Or the husband's the manager.
10:56 I find frequently the other spouse doesn't even know what
10:59 the money situation is.
11:00 They don't even talk about it.
11:02 Isn't that incredible?
11:03 It's, it's, I'm shaking my head that it's incredible, but in our
11:07 family I'm the money manager.
11:08 Especially when we first married we had a huge business debt
11:13 that we brought in.
11:14 J. D., it was just...
11:15 I was trying to figure out how to overcome this debt.
11:19 He wasn't really that interested.
11:21 So it's really very common.
11:22 It's very important though that people put things together.
11:25 I tell people that want to talk with me, if you're married,
11:29 I expect your spouse to be there.
11:30 Well, she doesn't know anything about money.
11:32 I say, but listen, whoever you're married to, God gave you
11:35 that person to keep you from doing stupid things,
11:38 so you should counsel with them regularly.
11:40 It's just really amazing how, you know, check and balance
11:43 a couple can be when they're working together.
11:45 Now obviously one of them is the one that manages the checkbook,
11:48 writes the checks, and all of that.
11:49 But if they talk about it, at least monthly,
11:51 you know, what our situation is, and what we should do here,
11:53 what should we do there, it really, really helped.
11:56 So the third one is list all of your debts from the largest
11:58 to the smallest.
11:59 So the largest one up here would be like your home mortgage,
12:01 or your student loans, or your car loans, or whatever.
12:03 The ones at the bottom would probably be the credit card
12:06 debts, because frequently people are maybe a month or two behind
12:09 or whatever, but they could pay them off if they had a plan.
12:12 So I tell people this is just what we call the snowball
12:15 effect, the ticket off, or whatever.
12:17 But you have to make the minimum payment on every one
12:21 every month.
12:22 This is important to know.
12:23 I've talked to people, ah well, this month I can't make my
12:26 Sears payment, or whatever, you see, and they'll skip
12:30 You can't do that.
12:31 You're ruining your credit.
12:32 Exactly right.
12:33 So I tell people, make the minimum payment on every debt
12:35 every month.
12:36 But the one at the bottom, any extra money that you get
12:39 from any source, maybe extra working, selling off some unused
12:43 We had a yard sale.
12:44 The only one we've ever had in our lives.
12:46 It brought in enough money to make a whole bunch of payments
12:49 on our house, because those were principal payments,
12:51 you know.
12:52 It's incredible what happens.
12:53 But at any rate, sell off stuff you don't need.
12:56 And I ask people, How many of you think you have stuff in your
12:58 possession you'll never use again?
13:00 Well, most everybody will raise their hand because they do.
13:02 We save stuff.
13:03 Get rid of stuff you don't need.
13:05 Put the money on your debts.
13:06 That's things that you can do as well.
13:08 But I'm just going to share with you those principles.
13:11 Once a single debt is paid off then what you used to pay on
13:16 that one you can pay on the next one along with this
13:19 minimum payment.
13:20 Pretty soon you can sing the victory song several times.
13:23 Now there's several reasons why I say start with the small ones.
13:26 One is so you're not discouraged.
13:29 You can say, well, man we got that one paid off.
13:30 We can do this one.
13:31 You see the idea.
13:32 Because if you started on your home for example, it might take
13:35 you several years to do that, and you couldn't sing
13:37 the victory song.
13:38 Plus the home mortgage is tax deductible, or the interest is
13:42 deductible; the interest is tax deductible.
13:45 Where the interest we pay on our credit cards isn't
13:47 tax deductible.
13:48 So you'd want to pay those kind off first.
13:51 It's very good to pay one off and then another.
13:54 and another, and another.
13:55 Another interesting thing is credit cards are typically
13:59 the main reason people get into debt.
14:00 But I've counseled with people who had more than thirty
14:04 credit cards.
14:05 I mean they have like Master Card and Visa, but then they
14:07 has gas cards, and store cards and all these kind of things.
14:10 My counsel as a financial counselor is not to have
14:12 more than two cards.
14:13 You know, a personal one, and a business one,
14:15 or something like that.
14:16 That's what they tell you when you want to get your credit
14:19 in good shape too.
14:20 The more credit cards you have the worse your credit score
14:22 is going to be typically.
14:23 Even if you pay them off every month.
14:25 And even if you, you know I learned that even if you have
14:29 those credit cards, and you're not using them, if you're not
14:31 carrying a good balance on them, high balance, it actually lowers
14:36 your credit score.
14:37 Another thing is the more credit cards you have, even paid off
14:40 credit cards, the more difficult it is to get a loan because the
14:42 lender can look at your credit history.
14:45 If you have all these cards you could easily bankrupt yourself
14:49 and they wouldn't want you to do that when they're giving
14:50 you a loan.
14:52 So that's kind of an interesting thing also.
14:53 Well, you know, this is, what you're saying is exactly,
14:56 without being trained, but how the Lord led us.
14:59 When we married, as I said, at first J. D. really wasn't
15:03 interested, well, it's not so much that he wasn't interested
15:06 as he did not have that propensity for money management.
15:11 He was a true entrepreneur.
15:13 He was very busy.
15:14 He was happy for you to take care of it.
15:15 He was happy for me to take care of it.
15:16 But I would show him at the end of each month what our debt was,
15:21 and what payments I was making, so that he would stay apprised
15:24 of the situation.
15:25 I began because I had a certain amount of money that I would
15:30 budget for paying on credit card debts and others.
15:34 And say, I forget what it was now, but it was something like
15:37 $3000 a month.
15:38 So I started paying off the smallest one, and I would
15:42 take that money and add it to the next one, just ticking
15:45 those things off.
15:46 And it was amazing how rapidly things started coming into...
15:49 Now this is incredible what I'm going to tell you next.
15:52 Systematic approach to paying off debt, just like for savings,
15:56 is incredible what it will do because you know the investment
16:00 put in your debt is going to be 100% successful because you're
16:03 paying off the debt and saving the interest, you see.
16:05 That's incredible.
16:07 But what we're talking about now adds one other element,
16:10 and that's when you have the Christian experience,
16:12 the Christian principles.
16:13 I'm not sure about your past history, whether or not you
16:15 were involved in it with the Lord at that time or not,
16:17 but the fact is it worked because you were systematic.
16:19 But if you're systematic and committed to a principle that
16:23 you've told the Lord, I'm going to put You first, then you have
16:26 even blessings added to that.
16:28 Do you see what I'm saying?
16:29 It's almost a multiplication table.
16:31 Well, since ours was business debt, and we were each month
16:36 so far beyond what we thought we could, I mean there was no
16:39 increase because of the business debt.
16:41 We were saying we can't tithe because there's no increase.
16:44 Basically after living for about a year like that realized
16:49 this isn't working.
16:50 So we decided to just sit down, and even though there was no
16:53 increase we said, okay, we are going to give to the Lord
16:57 a certain amount of money each month, to return this money.
17:00 And He did amazing things.
17:03 We'll talk about that during another program.
17:04 So basically we're looking at...
17:07 Let's go over those three principles one more time.
17:10 First is no more credit spending.
17:12 No more credit spending.
17:14 Say there's a moratorium on debt.
17:15 That's right.
17:17 I don't care if I need a new washing machine.
17:18 I'm going to save the money until I have the money to buy
17:21 that washing machine.
17:24 The second thing...
17:25 By the way, that's not easy to do.
17:27 You understand what I'm talking about.
17:28 Credit is almost like an addiction because whenever you
17:30 need something you just use your credit card and get it.
17:32 But studies have shown that sometimes people who don't
17:35 pay their credit card off every month end up paying almost twice
17:39 what they paid for the thing when they add all the interest
17:41 that's added each time.
17:42 Do you see what I'm saying?
17:44 Especially if you're paying just minimum payments.
17:45 Uh huh.
17:46 It's pitiful.
17:47 But now the second thing was to make an inverted...
17:50 No, no, that's the third one.
17:51 Oh, excuse me.
17:52 The covenant, remember?
17:53 The covenant.
17:54 Yeah, that's important.
17:55 Make this promise with God.
17:56 As you bless me any extra income that I get from any source
17:59 will go on those debts.
18:01 That's good.
18:02 So somebody gives you a gift, or you sell something,
18:05 and get a little more than you were expecting for it,
18:07 that goes toward your debt.
18:08 Oh, yes.
18:09 And then the third one is the inverted pyramid.
18:11 That's it, listing all the debts.
18:13 The largest ones at the top, listing all the debts,
18:15 bringing it down to the smallest, and then...
18:18 Starting at the bottom and working up to it, yeah.
18:20 That's wonderful.
18:21 Now once someone gets out of debt, I guess the way to stay
18:27 out of debt is to keep following those first two principles.
18:31 I'm not going to borrow money.
18:34 I'm not going to buy something unless I have the cash to pay
18:37 for it.
18:38 I think that's true.
18:39 Living within your means.
18:41 Then also, as Christians, we have another unusual thing,
18:44 and then we can ask God to providence to help provide
18:47 something within our budget that would meet our needs.
18:49 See, isn't that awesome?
18:51 I mean when you think about it?
18:52 I've listed a bunch of points also that I've used before.
18:56 Six things that people could do once they've established
19:00 the three principles.
19:01 I'll share those with you.
19:03 I think it's valuable to know.
19:04 One of them is establish a budget.
19:06 This is kind of funny.
19:07 People say, Well, duh, aren't you on a budget?
19:09 Do you know that many people just live from month to month
19:11 and pay whatever debt squeaks the loudest?
19:13 They don't really have a budget or a plan.
19:15 What worked for you and what worked for me was because
19:17 we had a plan.
19:18 We had a budget.
19:19 Well, here's what our income is, and here's what our
19:21 expenses are.
19:22 That's important.
19:23 Another one, I would say, is set goals for your family.
19:26 A goal, for example, would be we may use our credit card for
19:29 convenience when we go on vacation next year,
19:31 but we're going to have the money saved to pay it
19:33 when we get back.
19:34 Do you see what I'm saying?
19:35 Yes, exactly.
19:36 Instead of paying for it all year long, or you could say,
19:38 you know, by this time next year we're going to have
19:40 the car paid off.
19:41 Because most people just pay the payment one right after another,
19:44 instead of just calling the bank and saying, You know what,
19:45 if I paid it off next month I'd save some money, wouldn't I?
19:48 How much would the pay off be?
19:49 You know, make a plan.
19:51 Double up payments on things.
19:52 You know, if you can, to be debt free.
19:54 Those are important.
19:55 And then another one is destroy credit cards.
19:58 And then I have a little if in my presentations, generally.
20:01 I say if you find you're not paying it off every month,
20:05 or if you're spending on stuff you wouldn't normally buy,
20:07 except that it's available on credit, and I would say also
20:10 to use credit cards...
20:12 I mean I have to use a credit card in traveling, renting cars,
20:15 and various things like that, but you want to pay it off
20:17 every month.
20:18 You know something interesting?
20:19 Studies show that even among people who pay their credit card
20:24 off every month, they spend more with the credit card
20:27 than if they didn't have credit.
20:28 Isn't that incredible?
20:30 So I would say destroy credit cards if you have a problem
20:33 with it like that, or get down to two.
20:36 The real important thing is I would use the credit card
20:40 for my advantage, not the credit card company's advantage.
20:44 Someone asked me this several years ago, What interest rate
20:46 are you paying on your credit card?
20:47 Because you know they advertise these low introductory rates,
20:50 and so on.
20:51 And I, because Kathy was managing, I said I really
20:53 don't know.
20:54 It doesn't matter to me because I'm not making any interest
20:57 What matters to me is what benefits I can get, like I'm
21:00 saving up miles so that Kathy can travel with me when we,
21:03 you know, go on trips and so on.
21:05 So use it for your benefit not for their benefit.
21:07 And that's the real benefit I think of the credit card
21:11 Another one is to purchase depreciating items with cash.
21:16 That means things that lose their value quickly.
21:18 The very best thing you can do would be to pay cash for it.
21:21 Most people, because of the housing market could not pay
21:26 cash for a house.
21:27 They say, for example, that 21/2 to 3 times your annual
21:33 income should be the total that you have for investing
21:37 in a house, for example.
21:39 But in the D. C. area where I live, and working for the church
21:42 at a fixed salary, you know, this is three times more than
21:45 that figure.
21:46 So you have to really, really be careful when you make
21:49 a purchase.
21:50 You know, ask God's providential leading for the purchase,
21:52 and that kind of thing.
21:53 But for a house, most people could not pay cash for it.
21:58 By the way, I ask people, Do you know why houses
22:01 cost so much?
22:02 The answer is really simple.
22:04 Because credit is available.
22:05 If credit was not available, no one could sell a
22:09 $700,000 house.
22:10 Do you get the point?
22:11 Because if we had to come up with cash, houses would be
22:15 down like they were years ago, under $100,000, or whatever,
22:18 because some would have to save up for it.
22:19 But because credit is available they can charge these big high
22:22 prices for things.
22:23 And the amazing thing is we're so used to paying on credit for
22:26 everything that we do that.
22:27 I mean, think of how much cars are.
22:29 I mean the average car is $20,000 or more.
22:31 This is amazing, you know, when you think about it.
22:34 And, of course, people are making more money now as well,
22:37 but a lot of people are priced out of the market who are on the
22:41 lower income levels of our society, which is really
22:43 something serious.
22:44 And then I thought about beginning economy measures.
22:48 In other words, there's many things that you can do:
22:51 energy savings, gas savings, go on shorter trips, or a lot of
22:57 different things.
22:58 If I had my book, I list a whole bunch of things, but people
23:00 know what those are.
23:01 But just plan on it.
23:02 Then the sixth one that I have is a follow up to the three
23:06 points, is to have a sale and sell off stuff you don't need.
23:09 Because lots of people have lots of things they don't need,
23:12 and it could be valuable.
23:13 You know, somebody's trash is someone else's treasure.
23:15 That's why they have yard sales.
23:17 We used our trash to make a significant amount of money
23:21 to go on our debts.
23:23 Kathy says it's time to do another one just to
23:25 get rid of junk.
23:26 So it's important that you think about it, and that is
23:30 to pare down.
23:31 Now I want to tell you something from a Christian perspective
23:33 which is very interesting to me.
23:35 We actually have counsel that as we near the close of time
23:41 we should be cutting our possessions smaller and smaller,
23:43 so not much of our stuff gets burned up at the end.
23:47 Isn't that incredible?
23:48 So you could sell off stuff.
23:49 Put it into advance the cause of God, or help a young person
23:52 through school, help in a mission project, or pay for
23:55 an orphans education.
23:56 You know, there's a lot of different things people can do.
23:57 But then that's satisfactory.
24:00 When you stop and think back on your life, you know,
24:02 what did I accomplish?
24:03 It wasn't just the things I've done, it's people I've helped,
24:06 and things that I've done to make a difference
24:08 in God's cause.
24:09 Isn't that true?
24:10 Yes, absolutely.
24:11 And you know, I was thinking also one of the things that we
24:13 used, and I know you teach.
24:14 I've heard you teach this before is that when we, for example,
24:20 with our car, each month, because I'd got the credit card
24:23 payments, all of our credit card debt was gone, so each
24:27 month what I would do is make an extra principal payment
24:30 on the car and made sure that I could do that in our contract.
24:33 We paid our car off nearly two years in advance
24:36 by doing that, and the same applies to the mortgage.
24:39 Oh yes, yes.
24:40 You can really cut that back.
24:41 Really, especially in the early years.
24:43 In fact almost 20 years in a 30 year mortgage.
24:46 It's very easy to make a second payment and save lots, and lots
24:49 of interest.
24:50 That's quite an incredible thing.
24:52 One other thing I wanted to tell you about, and this is just us
24:55 from a Christian perspective, is sometimes people will come
24:59 to you or me and want you to co-sign for them.
25:02 The Bible says you should never do that, Proverbs 6:1-5.
25:06 It says four times in the book of Proverbs, which is from the
25:09 wisdom of the wise man, who was also inspired by God.
25:12 Never co-sign for someone.
25:14 Now I have to always say this.
25:16 It's important as a Christian that we're willing to help
25:19 people in need, but we should not become responsible
25:22 for their debts.
25:23 Do you see what I'm saying there?
25:25 Sometimes people will come to you and say, Well, you say
25:27 you're a Christian and I need help.
25:29 The bank has the money but they won't let me get the money
25:32 unless you sign for me.
25:33 You might be willing to help them, but do not become
25:36 responsible for their debts.
25:37 You would not believe the stories that people have told
25:40 me about co-signing for their kids to go into business,
25:42 or to buy a car for someone, or whatever.
25:45 Let me encourage you, be generous, and be willing to help
25:48 people, but do not co-sign for someone when the Bible says
25:51 do not do that.
25:52 Excellent counsel.
25:54 Very briefly, we just have a moment left, but what about
25:57 filing of bankruptcy?
25:59 Well, bankruptcy is available for unusual circumstances.
26:03 Bankruptcy is not in the Bible.
26:05 Sometimes people take Deuteronomy 15:1 and say,
26:08 you know, at the end of every seven years you should forgive
26:09 the debt.
26:10 But real simple, the next verse in verse 2 says that God is
26:13 talking to the creditors, the lenders, you know, because you
26:16 should not charge interest for longer than seven years.
26:19 That's very interesting.
26:20 But from the person who borrows the money, we should do our best
26:24 to pay it back.
26:25 I tell people, don't file for bankruptcy because it's going
26:28 to ruin your credit.
26:29 It's going to be on your credit record for ten years.
26:30 Even some things, like you could read a business application,
26:35 have you ever filed for bankruptcy protection?
26:37 So that should be a last resort.
26:38 In my counseling, in 15 or 20 years of counseling,
26:41 I've only counseled two people to file for bankruptcy.
26:43 Both have been single women who've been left in the lurch
26:46 by a spendthrift husband who took off to Alaska, or whatever.
26:48 There was no way they could have paid off the bills that they did
26:51 not personally incur.
26:52 Do you see what I'm saying?
26:53 But just to do it because your credit cards are high or you've,
26:56 you know, those kinds of things.
26:58 I don't think it would be appropriate from a Christian
27:00 perspective, or from a moral perspective, for your fellow men
27:03 who have trusted you.
27:04 Now remember, it's available.
27:05 In certain circumstances I would recommend it.
27:08 Ed we're already out of time.
27:10 This program just flew by.
27:11 Ed thank you so much for coming to share what you have learned
27:15 from the Bible, and how you put it into practice.
27:18 It's been a pleasure to be here and I hope that the viewers have
27:20 gained some tips that would be helpful to them.
27:22 I know they have and I want to invite you back.
27:25 I know you're going to come back and do a couple more
27:27 programs with us.
27:28 So we encourage you to watch for some additional programs
27:32 with G. Edward Reid, author of It's Your Money Isn't It?
27:36 If you'd like to contact him you can go to our 3ABN website
27:40 and we actually have a link to his website that you can get on
27:44 to get these money principles.
27:46 Thank you so much for joining us.
27:48 And now may God's grace be with you through out the rest
27:51 of the day.