Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jeffery Wilson & Rita Westphal
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000232
00:30 Hello I'm Shelly Quinn and welcome again to Issues and
00:33 Answers, hey we have got an exciting program today.
00:36 Something a little bit different, we are going to be
00:38 talking about women and wealth.
00:40 You know the Bible in Luke chapter 8:3 the Bible says,
00:46 this, Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager,
00:50 and Susannah, and many others who ministered to and provided
00:55 for Him, for Christ and His disciples out of
01:00 their property and personal belongings.
01:03 We're going to be talking about women and wealth and how
01:07 God would help us to acquire and to distribute that wealth.
01:11 I have returning, as a special guest, Jeff Wilson.
01:15 Jeff thank you so much for coming back.
01:17 - joy to be here. - Will it's a joy to have you and
01:20 you are the Director for the Planned Giving and Trust
01:23 Services for the General Conference of the
01:26 Seventh-day Adventist churches.
01:27 That is correct. - How many years again?
01:29 Let's remind our audience if they didn't see you before.
01:33 Well I started in 1999 at the General Conference and
01:36 became a Director in the year of 2000.
01:38 I am thrilled to know that your background as a Pastor,
01:42 you are also the Director of Youth in Illinois Conference.
01:47 So it is good to know the man who is overseeing the funds
01:52 of the Church, is a man of God. That is what we always hope for.
01:56 So thank you so much for returning. - thank you.
02:00 Now also with us today, is no stranger to 3ABN.
02:04 Rita Westphal, Rita thank you - nice being here.
02:07 Well it is a joy. - it is always a joy to be here.
02:11 You are precious, you know it?
02:12 Let me ask you something, you have never been on Issues
02:15 and Answers before have you?
02:16 - no, this is my first actually.
02:18 Quite often we see you when your husband, Leonard,
02:21 on 3ABN Today program because you all work with
02:24 the trust department for 3ABN. - In Loma Linda California.
02:28 And you have been doing this for how long?
02:30 About six years.
02:32 - So Leonard for 10 years and you've joined him four
02:34 years later. - 6 years.
02:36 It's a joy to have you. - we are very blessed.
02:39 Aren't we all? - very much. - aren't we all?
02:42 We are going to be talking today about some of the
02:46 financial partners that Jesus had during His ministry.
02:50 Jeff, why did you choose this topic?
02:53 Well it is interesting that in the last couple decades
02:57 of course women have become more involved in the business
03:01 world, in employment, and we sort of talk as if this is
03:05 something totally new.
03:06 But when you go out to the Bible times, in the text that
03:09 you read there in Luke four example,
03:11 you see interestingly enough many women were the financial
03:15 backers actually of Jesus' ministry.
03:18 One of the most thrilling stories to me in Scripture,
03:22 that I, it just amazes me every time I read it,
03:26 is a story of Mary Magdalene anointing Jesus' feet
03:30 for His burial.
03:32 And it is an event, Mary slipped into the room, she was an
03:38 uninvited guest, she was purposely not invited to this
03:40 feast that Simon had prepared to honor the Lord.
03:44 Who had healed him of leprosy, even though the Bible says,
03:49 he still didn't believe or accept Jesus as Lord.
03:53 But the Lord still worked this wonderful miracle in his life.
03:56 But Simon had not invited her there.
03:59 You know what, excuse me for interrupting,
04:01 something just hit me when you said that.
04:03 He was accepting Christ as Savior in sense because
04:06 He saved him from this horrible disease but he was not
04:09 accepting Him as Lord, how many people do that?
04:11 How many people go to Him and except Him as Savior
04:14 but won't accept Him as Lord of their life? Okay!
04:17 Well and the Lord even at the end of the feast tells
04:20 this parable about the debtors, the two debtors.
04:23 Even in that parable Jesus is appealing to Simon,
04:26 I think, to accept the Lord as Mary had done.
04:28 Mary was just as bad of a sinner, or maybe not
04:31 as bad of a sinner as Simon,
04:33 but he at that point hadn't excepted.
04:35 But anyway Mary had carefully managed her money, and even
04:41 today I think in most cases women are better managers
04:46 of money than we men are, it is true.
04:48 Women often look at money more sacredly than men do.
04:54 And to look at what money can do in touching lives and
04:58 making a difference rather than just dressing ourselves
05:03 up or doing things for the moment that have
05:06 no real lasting value, but anyway.
05:08 Mary apparently for a long time had been saving her money
05:13 because when we look the account there, the value of that
05:18 bottle of perfume, that alabaster box, that perfume had
05:24 come from way up in northern India.
05:26 It was very rare, very expensive, was equal to one
05:29 years wages and that was a significant gift.
05:34 She had been saving her money not knowing what for.
05:37 But somewhere along the line, as she saw things winding up
05:40 she was so grateful to the Lord for what, she had fallen,
05:44 the Bible says seven times.
05:46 Seven is a perfect number in the Bible, so she was the
05:50 ultimate sinner we might say.
05:52 You know sometimes we say I will give you three strikes
05:54 and then you are out, the one glad the Lord gives us
05:56 more than three strikes.
05:58 He gave Mary seven strikes, she would fall back into sin
06:01 and He would go and bring her back and forgive her and
06:04 restore her, she would fall back again.
06:06 Many times alcohol, tobacco, some of the things,
06:09 to get away from that is a long struggle, but the Lord
06:13 is with us through it all.
06:16 But she was so grateful for what He had done and now
06:19 the rumors were around that the religious leaders
06:22 were plotting Jesus' death.
06:25 And Mary did something very special.
06:28 Rather than bring flowers to the funeral,
06:32 she brought flowers ahead of the funeral,
06:35 do you know what I am saying?
06:36 - exactly. - Ellen White talks about, don't wait until
06:39 a person dies to talk, to say at the funeral what a wonderful
06:43 person they were, because that doesn't help the person.
06:45 But express that before they pass away.
06:49 Anyway, so she came uninvited and she, led by the Holy
06:56 Spirit, thought of what Jesus had done for her and she began
07:01 to weep, and she broke the box, and her tears and perfume
07:05 mix together as she anointed both His head and His feet.
07:10 She thought she would do this to tell the Lord how much she
07:14 loved Him and that she knew He was going to the tomb,
07:16 but she appreciated Him going through for her.
07:20 But what she of course had forgotten is the aroma of that
07:25 very expensive perfume.
07:27 People could not see her, she was probably bent down
07:30 very low, but the aroma filled the room and people
07:34 looked around, what is this?
07:35 Of course there was this great problem going around really
07:40 started by Judas saying, why this terrible waste.
07:43 You know the Bible says, the disciples were indignant.
07:46 Why was this not spent, sold to help the poor?
07:52 Jesus immediately stood between her and her accusers
07:56 as He had done many times before.
07:59 He said, of what Mary did, remember what she has done
08:03 will be told in memory of her wherever the gospel is
08:07 preached throughout the whole world.
08:08 I think it is Matthew 26:3, so as we talk about it today,
08:13 we are fulfilling a prophecy that Jesus made 2000 years
08:17 ago in telling that story.
08:18 My point is, she was a woman, she was saved by grace.
08:24 She encouraged the Lord's heart at the most difficult
08:29 moment of His life. - Amen!
08:31 In my minds eye I see Jesus hang on the cross a few hours
08:35 later and there was a stench of death all around Him.
08:39 There was a cursing, there was a swearing,
08:42 all His disciples had forsaken Him and fled.
08:45 I think it was very tempting for Christ on the cross to
08:49 come down, and the devil through his embassies'
08:52 was saying, come down off the cross.
08:54 Why throw your life away if there are people accepting
08:57 your sacrifice it would be worth it, but where are they?
09:00 They have all forsaken You and fled.
09:02 Don't give your life for nothing, and then I think the
09:05 aroma of that perfume, He caught a whiff of that.
09:10 You know how it is when you catch a whiff of something
09:11 that takes you back 40 years in your memory?
09:14 I think He caught a whiff of that perfume and He said no,
09:17 there is one, there is one who has accepted Me and
09:22 I will go through for one.
09:25 The Bible says that Jesus would have died for one.
09:29 He died for Mary, so I think that is why we all owe a
09:33 debt of gratitude to Mary taking a years wages, which
09:37 she could have spent on many of the things on herself.
09:40 They were many hard earned dollars, or denarii or what
09:44 ever it would've been at that time.
09:45 She did it for her Lord.
09:47 You know she could have also said, as some of the
09:51 disciples said, I believe in Jesus and I'm going to do
09:55 something good for the Ministry with this money, but I am
09:58 going to really plot out how I am going to use my money.
10:02 Rather what she did, she lavished this gift on Him
10:07 in such an extraordinary way because He lavished His love
10:11 on her, and so it was an act of complete abandonment.
10:16 Wasn't it? It was a beautiful story and what a contrast to
10:21 Mary breaking the alabaster box, Judas what was he busy doing?
10:27 As John Fowler says, Judas clutched the moneybox.
10:33 Mary gave the alabaster box. - Amen!
10:38 So there is the two ways we can deal with material
10:41 things, we can hold it to ourselves and what happened to
10:44 Judas, it's pretty sad.
10:47 It reminds me just briefly, I want to add a little something
10:50 I think you will appreciate particularly because you have
10:53 been a Youth Director.
10:54 Rita if you could've met this little girl,
10:55 you would have loved her.
10:56 There was this child, I was over the children's church,
11:00 Which was many years ago in my church,
11:02 we had a children's church.
11:03 I was the Director and teacher over that, and this precious
11:07 little girl and her family was very poor.
11:12 And she had collectively received from a variety of
11:17 relatives $100 for her birthday.
11:20 And she came, at the time we were taking the offering,
11:25 I was teaching the children the principle of tithing,
11:30 she put the entire amount into... and she told me.
11:37 She said, I don't want anyone to know, so do I need to
11:41 write my name on this because I'm doing this for Jesus?
11:44 And I told her, I said honey you don't have to give it
11:48 all. She said, He gave His all for me.
11:51 - that is wonderful. - now isn't that precious story?
11:53 Precious, precious little child.
11:56 There are many women that we see, now Mary's was
11:59 a lavish gift, what a one that maybe didn't
12:03 have something that?
12:04 Well sometime before this, Jesus wanted to give His
12:10 disciples and object lesson, so He took them to the temple.
12:15 They found a place to observe very close to the offering plate
12:20 sometimes people say the Lord isn't interested in our
12:23 gifts and all this kind of thing. But He is.
12:26 There He sat with His disciples and watched the rich
12:28 people come and they would change their large money into
12:33 small money and make a big production out of placing their
12:37 offering in the offering plate to say to everyone else
12:41 look how generous I am?
12:42 Then along came a woman, a poor widow woman.
12:47 She had only two little coins that were smaller than a penny,
12:52 and I think she was terribly embarrassed.
12:54 She knew it was an amount that meant nothing, it couldn't do
13:00 anything because it was so small, but the Lord was leading
13:05 her to make this gift out of gratitude for what the
13:08 Lord had done for her.
13:10 She slipped up and just drop those coins and tried to hurry
13:12 away, and the Lord said look at that,
13:14 He immediately pointed His disciples to that gift and
13:18 their heads were spinning, what that is nothing?
13:21 He said, she has given more than all the rest.
13:25 We say, how can it be? That God's accounting principles
13:30 are different than our accounting principles.
13:32 He was looking at what she had left, and he was looking at
13:36 what the rich people had left when they made their gifts.
13:39 At this woman had given all and so I think in the
13:44 accounting records of heaven that little woman who gave just
13:47 gave two tiny, tiny coins may be the biggest donor in
13:51 heaven because she has inspired so many other people
13:54 to be generous.
13:56 She was giving up what she did not have,
13:58 she didn't have anything to give.
13:59 I am very inspired many times when I talk with people on
14:04 the phone, with our donors, and the tremendous amount of
14:09 love and sacrifice that is involved when they want to do
14:17 something for the Lord's work and they saved a lot in
14:24 order to be able to give some.
14:27 I remember this particular case that this older lady,
14:32 she was saying that they were not heating one part of the
14:37 house so they could save and give that money to the Lord's
14:42 work. - how precious, you know
14:43 that reminds me when you said sacrifice, and you said some
14:47 people think God's not interested in our giving,
14:49 Romans 12:2 says, present your- self a living sacrifice to God.
14:53 Sometimes the way I explain it to people is the monetary
14:58 gifts we give are the closest thing we have to
15:01 a living sacrifice, when you think about it because
15:03 we spend so much of our life to earn
15:08 what is keeping us, sustaining us.
15:12 Shelley money, life is a definition for money.
15:15 We exchange time for money, that is how we are paid.
15:20 So when we return money to God, we are saying Lord
15:25 You are the Lord of my whole life. - absolutely.
15:30 And when Jesus taught there on the sermon on the Mount,
15:34 He said you cannot serve both God and Mammon, or money.
15:37 When the Lord Himself look at the greatest counterfeit
15:41 for Him, the greatest Antichrist as it were,
15:44 it was money and possessions and things.
15:47 What is so amazing to me is that the Lord was actually
15:51 speaking in a developing country, He was in a very poor
15:54 country when He said that, it wasn't in the
15:57 United States of America.
15:58 It was a place where people were very poor, it was like
16:02 saying that maybe in India or some parts of Africa today,
16:06 when He said, you can't serve both God and money.
16:08 So the point is as you said at the beginning, money is
16:12 not the problem, it is our relationship to it.
16:15 The love of, so I might not even have money but if
16:19 I have love toward money, even the lack of it is going to
16:23 take place of God in my life.
16:25 You know with women, and our topic today is about women
16:30 and wealth, women today have come to the forefront in
16:34 a way that we are making more money and we are holding
16:38 more powerful positions and generating more income than
16:42 we have done in previous generations.
16:44 Now of course, when I think about women I always think
16:49 about Proverbs 31 wife and the Lord said, to praise her
16:53 in the city gates because she was very industrious and
16:57 she knew how to manage God's, she was a good steward of
17:01 God's money, and a good steward of her household.
17:04 But for these women who are controlling more than most
17:08 generations that have been before us, recent generations,
17:12 what do, what advice would you have for these women?
17:18 How do we, we are looking at God enabling us to make more
17:21 money, but what do we do with this money?
17:24 It is true that women are making more money than ever,
17:28 but it is also true that women outlive men.
17:32 So our work, Rita and my work and Leonard's work and
17:36 that of about 350 other of us in north America and the
17:40 world, is to encourage people in planed giving,
17:43 which means the final act of giving.
17:46 Giving through a will or trust or gift annuity
17:49 at the end of my life.
17:50 Well the reality is in seven out of eight cases, the
17:55 woman is going to make the final decisions.
17:58 In most cases. - is that because she outlives the man?
18:01 - because she outlives the man you see.
18:03 In most cases when the first spouse dies, everything
18:06 passes to the surviving spouse.
18:08 So in the ultimate case it's the women, for me that is good news
18:13 because women are more charit- ably minded then we men are.
18:17 I think it's good news for God's work and for the children
18:21 and others so in the final analysis women are going to
18:25 make those decisions.
18:26 So back to your question, it means that women more than
18:30 ever need to be understanding about making of money,
18:34 managing money, and investing money and resources,
18:38 and understanding as well as they can philanthropy.
18:42 What do I want to do? What does my children need?
18:45 What do others that depend upon me need?
18:48 And what are my goals in life?
18:49 What drives me every morning when I get up?
18:52 What part of God's ministry touches my life?
18:56 Media Ministry, education, missions, whatever it might be.
19:01 How can I get some help to prepare a plan that will meet
19:07 my goals and touch the future through my giving?
19:12 There is another side that I want to bring up,
19:16 and I'm talking directly to women.
19:21 We have a lot of potential, a lot of Christian women
19:26 have never developed their potential to make money.
19:32 Now I realize the importance of having funds to be able
19:41 to reach all kinds of places.
19:44 To be able to share in all kinds of ministries.
19:48 I see the importance of having the ability to work
19:52 and make money and know how to invest.
19:55 For many years, in all the generations never thought about
20:01 investing per se, the women especially.
20:04 They left that after the men, but now it is important that
20:09 women become wise, they catch the vision of what the Lord
20:15 can do with the money they may be able to share and become
20:21 really involved at a really deep level.
20:25 Getting involved in a way that they can like Mary
20:28 Magdalena, can collect enough that then they can
20:32 break it and give it all to the Lord's work - Amen!
20:35 Well it's an exciting time to be alive because in the 80s,
20:39 especially the 90s, there was this huge run-up in wealth.
20:43 We live today in the most prosperous time this world has
20:47 ever known. - in the United States we are so spoiled.
20:51 - Especially in the United States, yeah.
20:53 - We're so spoiled. - The interesting thing is that a
20:57 person who is careful in saving and managing their money
21:00 over a long period of time, can collect significant
21:04 resources to make an amazing difference in God's work.
21:08 And there's something that I just wanted to bring out in
21:12 this program because the last time you were here,
21:14 and he was here with your husband Leonard last time,
21:18 we were talking about the importance of wills and we did
21:21 dedicate the whole program to that, but for someone who
21:24 might not have seen that I was just wondering if you would
21:26 briefly touch on that because there are many women,
21:28 and particularly single women who think they do not have
21:31 to worry about a will. You have got to have a will.
21:34 If you are over 18 years old you need to have a will.
21:37 A will is a basic estate planning document and
21:41 everyone needs that will as you have said, that is of age.
21:45 Wills are scary things, people are afraid if they do their
21:50 will they are going to die. - superstition.
21:52 It's superstition because the reality is that those
21:55 who have wills actually live longer, up to 10 years longer
22:00 than those who don't have wills.
22:01 Probably their more prudent.
22:03 And they have peace of mind, they are not worrying anymore
22:06 because everything is in order you see.
22:08 They are the same people who wear seatbelts, who drink eight
22:11 glasses of water a day and so forth.
22:13 They are organized, but it is not a scary thing.
22:17 In our church we have planned giving trust service
22:22 departments that are ministries, in our Conferences, people
22:25 can pick up the phone and they could call our toll-free
22:28 number, they can get it on the website.
22:30 We have people who can help them, not to tell them what to
22:34 do, but to help them with the scary part, the legal
22:38 documents with all that legal language they don't
22:41 understand a whole lot.
22:42 But the lawyer is there to help them understand and make
22:46 sure that their wishes are met.
22:47 And Rita, just, we don't have time to go into a but just if
22:52 you will run through a list of some of the options,
22:54 the alternatives people have.
22:56 Well we have wills and we have trusts.
23:01 We will recommend a trust rather than a will because it
23:05 is more specific and it avoids a lot of the legal
23:10 probate and legal fees and court fees.
23:13 But we also have other ways that you can share in the
23:19 Lord's work with annuities.
23:21 We have also what we call a cash trust which is a fabulous
23:26 way to make money on your money and yet have more to give.
23:30 You see if you know how to invest your money wisely,
23:34 you can turn around and give more, and some people they are
23:40 not, they are scared even thinking about it, so they
23:44 keep the money in the bank,
23:46 or in a savings account or something like that when
23:50 actually that money could be producing a lot more money.
23:53 It could be turned around and put in the Lord's work.
23:57 Absolutely, and those annuities pays so much higher rate.
24:00 Depending on the age it can multiply your money.
24:04 Well we only have a few moments left and I want to get
24:06 into, because you were sharing earlier we me Jeff, some
24:10 of the stories of people who have been very stingy, and
24:13 some who have been very generous in their giving.
24:15 Well if I have a minute I would sure couple of stories
24:19 that are so thrilling to me.
24:21 There was a lady by the name of Mildred Terry.
24:23 Her husband died a number of years before, she had a very
24:30 humble little home in Washington, DC area.
24:33 She spent about 40 years as a registered nurse working for
24:36 the government and near the end of her life she came to
24:40 the General Conference and she asked if she could prepare
24:43 a will that would remember her home country which happened
24:46 to be the Czech Republic because her parents had
24:49 immigrated from that country years before.
24:53 So estate plan document was prepared for her.
24:56 Interestingly enough when she passed away, and as
25:00 I say she lived in a humble home,
25:01 but she managed her money well.
25:03 Her estate was $455,000 and it went to the Czech Republic
25:09 at the very moment it was needed.
25:11 The velvet curtain had come down and communism had
25:14 fallen and there was this great need for evangelism but
25:16 our church was very weak because for decades
25:19 we couldn't have any organized work.
25:21 Her gift funded nationwide evangelistic campaigns
25:27 in all the large cities.
25:28 They prepared five different Bible correspondence
25:31 courses, full-color courses.
25:33 They were able to provide the book of What Seventh day
25:37 Adventist Believe in 6500 ministers homes in the whole
25:40 country and the last time I heard more than 4000 people
25:44 have been baptized in that country.
25:46 Evangelism was started and spurred on because of the
25:52 gift of one woman, just one person.
25:55 And it came at the right time you see, she would not know
25:59 the time, our brethren and in that country did know the right
26:02 time, but it was right when the people were hungry for the
26:05 truth that this money came from one woman.
26:08 I think in heaven she's going to be like the widow with
26:12 two talents so amazed at the starry crown she is going to
26:16 have, but she said how did I win 4000 people?
26:19 And the angel will say let me tell you the rest of the
26:22 story of what happened to your estate.
26:25 God bless Mildred Terry.
26:26 Well in about less than a minute that we have, can you
26:30 tell us a little bit about Oseola?
26:33 Oseola McCarthy was an African American woman who had to quit
26:37 school when she was 7 or 8 years old to help her mother and
26:41 her aunt, iron and washed other people's clothes.
26:44 She saved a little money over a long period of time.
26:48 Near the end of her life she had saved $280,000.
26:51 She prepared a will and trust and she had her local church
26:57 and three relatives she wanted to remember.
26:59 But she gave $150,000 cash before her death to the
27:04 University of Southern Mississippi.
27:06 It floored the University, they were surprised for this
27:09 gift. - probably because most of her life they wouldn't
27:12 even let her on their campus.
27:13 She wouldn't have even been able to enroll there, she said
27:16 I could not get an education there but I want to help
27:19 other deserving young people receive an education.
27:22 So what one person can do is thrilling. - incredible.
27:24 So women and wealth, we are already out of time and
27:27 I'm so sorry Jeff I thank you so much.
27:29 - thank you for inviting me.
27:30 And Rita it was good to see you again.
27:32 - it's always good to see you.
27:33 For those of you at home, I hope that this has done
27:36 something to make you think, when we talk about women and
27:39 wealth you might not think you have any, but even like Oseola
27:42 just a little bit, the widow's mite can go a long way.
27:45 Now may the Lord continue to bless you and may
27:49 you live for Him. Bye-bye.