Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Paul & Carolyn Rayne
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000226
00:29 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn, and welcome again to
00:31 Issues and Answers. Today we're going to be
00:34 talking about foundations for Christian homes,
00:37 and how to build up that foundation.
00:39 The Bible says in Joshua 24:15: "Choose you this day"
00:43 "whom you will serve. As for me and my house,"
00:46 "we will serve the Lord. " And we have back with us,
00:50 returning for, this has been several times you've been back,
00:53 but we're just really thrilled to have Carolyn and Paul Rayne
00:57 from Restoration International joining us again.
01:01 - Thank you. - Oh, it's a joy.
01:03 Tell us a little bit, for those who haven't seen you before
01:06 what is Restoration International all about.
01:09 Restoration International is just a small family ministry,
01:12 4 families in actual fact, with a real burden
01:17 to communicate to people all over the world
01:20 the need to take the knowledge that we have
01:23 of God and make it practical, make it work in the home,
01:27 make it come alive in the marriage, in the raising
01:30 of the children, in our interactions with those
01:33 around us.
01:35 So just bringing Jesus into the life rather than just
01:38 - into the head. - And how do you go about
01:40 accomplishing this in your ministry?
01:42 Well, Restoration International travels all over the US
01:45 and around the world. Probably our flagship
01:48 are the family camp meetings, they run from Wednesday
01:52 through to Sunday, 7 locations annually around the US,
01:56 and several overseas in Europe and down in the Philippines.
02:01 There we seek to bring the people apart from the busyness
02:05 of everyday life and really focus on what it means
02:09 to be a Christian personally in our marriage, in our families,
02:15 and then, also we have church seminars around the country
02:18 and around the world; not just my wife and I,
02:21 we have Tom and Alane Waters in our ministry also,
02:25 who travel extensively, and Edwin and Maria Nebblett
02:29 with their young people, they travel and their whole
02:32 - family speaks. - Wonderful.
02:34 Well, I know that you've been here before, and we've been
02:37 discussing some great issues. Today what we want to talk about
02:41 is "Foundations for Family Living", and actually,
02:45 as young as Paul and Carolyn look, they've been married
02:49 18 years. You cradle robber, you!
02:52 [Everyone laughs] Well, if I told you how old
02:54 she was when I married her, and somebody wanted to do
02:57 the math then they would figure out that we're no spring
03:05 I think it's Satan's Nr. 1 ploy to ruin families because that's
03:12 what the church is made up of, the church is a family
03:16 made up of smaller units of families, so it seems to me
03:20 that families are very much under attack today.
03:23 What would you say, as practical advice to those
03:27 who are out there looking to strengthen their family
03:33 We try to speak not just from what we've read in a book,
03:36 but from what we have found to be applicable and working
03:41 for us practically in our family and one thing that we
03:46 have really found that ties our family together,
03:50 it's a foundation of a family we believe, is daily,
03:56 and I want to underscore that word "daily", family worship.
04:00 Not that we're worshipping the family, but it's a time
04:03 in the morning before we set off into the busyness of the day
04:07 to come together as a family, read a Scripture or two
04:11 from God's word, maybe sing some songs together,
04:15 and certainly pray together, but just the time to come together
04:19 as a family, and share what we're going to be doing
04:22 in the day. It kind of ties a knot,
04:28 and we seek to do that at the end of the day as well.
04:32 Often times in a family dad's out the door because
04:35 he's got to be at work by 6, and mom's had a late night,
04:39 so she hasn't surfaced yet. We have found that if we
04:44 all make the effort bright and early, spend some time
04:48 with the Lord individually and then have family worship,
04:52 it's been a great blessing to our family.
04:54 It's something that maybe seems so small, "How can that be such"
04:58 "a blessing?", I encourage our viewers, try it,
05:01 and you'll know what we speak of.
05:04 We discussed this on an earlier program about your
05:07 personal devotional time and how you all handle this.
05:11 We're going to look at this again, and maybe cover some
05:13 other aspects because we're looking at the family
05:15 as a unit, and it really is true, the old axiom
05:19 that the family that prays together stays together.
05:23 What are some of the practical things for our viewers,
05:27 I'm going to start with you Carolyn, you have 2 children,
05:30 7 and a half, and 9 and a half. I know you've been doing
05:34 this with your children since they were very small
05:36 to encourage this habit of daily devotions.
05:40 What if someone is out in our audience who has children
05:44 who are in their teens and they've never had family
05:47 worship together, and they find that their children are being
05:49 attracted to the things of the world, and now they're saying
05:53 "I need to do this", what would you suggest, where would
05:57 - they begin? - What I wouldn't suggest
05:59 is that right after this program you sit down with your children,
06:02 say "Right, we're having family worship. "
06:05 What I would suggest is that you go to the Lord, you and your
06:08 spouse go to the Lord on your knees together and pray
06:10 about it first of all. I know it's the right thing
06:14 to do, but pray about how you can present this to the family.
06:19 Before you go further, I'm going to interject something to make
06:22 your answer even a little more challenging.
06:25 Let's suppose that one of our viewers is a woman who is
06:29 married to a non-Christian man and has teenage children,
06:33 she can't go to her spouse and pray together, so let's
06:36 - take it from there. - She takes it to the Lord
06:39 because He is her spiritual Father, she can take it
06:43 to the Lord and ask Him how should she implement this
06:46 in her family. I have a dear friend
06:49 who is in this situation, and I know that then my
06:52 encouragement would be that when you and the Lord,
06:55 you know where you're going, you know what you want
06:58 to achieve, then sit down with the rest of your family,
07:01 whether it's your entire family, whether it's just you and
07:04 the children because your spouse is not a believer,
07:06 and just talk about it as a family: "what are we"
07:09 "going to do? This is what I've found... "
07:12 And what we have found as parents is that the enthusiasm
07:14 will start here. If we generate the enthusiasm
07:17 you'll be amazed at how soon older children and younger
07:21 children will pick up and go with that enthusiasm,
07:23 and then you'll be able to ride on their enthusiasm,
07:25 but you must start it yourself. So what I would encourage,
07:28 we have found that works in our family is to make
07:31 it relevant to the ages that your children are.
07:34 So if you have teenagers, looking at the story
07:38 of baby Jesus probably isn't going to cut it for them.
07:43 They are looking at what kind of issues are prevalent
07:45 for a teenager today, and go into the word of God
07:48 together as a family, and look at these things together
07:52 as a family, drawing practical application for the ages
07:55 that the family is currently at. That is something that we have
07:59 found is a real key and a real blessing, and not only
08:02 as we do that we can give a blessing to our children,
08:06 but we can honestly say that every family worship is a
08:08 - blessing to us as well. - Another important point,
08:12 especially with teenagers, and it works with little children
08:17 as well, is to make the time of family worship short
08:22 and spirited. If you're going to start
08:25 family worship and say the father is involved, and he
08:28 says: "Okay family, we're having family worship now",
08:31 and he reads half of the book of Job, I can guarantee you,
08:35 though it's the inspired word of God, he's not going to meet
08:38 with much enthusiasm the next day.
08:41 Make it short and spirited; singing, that's what we like
08:45 to do. Singing is as much an act
08:48 of worship as is prayer. So the singing is something
08:51 everybody can enter into, and then just a couple
08:53 of Scriptures, maybe have the young people read,
08:56 or say "well, what do you want to share", have them involved.
09:00 When we first started singing together in family worship
09:03 it was just the 2 of us, when we came across
09:06 the idea of the need for family worship, and it was kind of
09:09 embarrassing. You're used to singing
09:11 in church in a group of people, but just 2 of you, or maybe
09:14 3 or 4, but as you get used to it you become more
09:18 comfortable with each other doing that, it becomes
09:20 a real joy and a real blessing in the family.
09:23 The blessings are had on the new ground that we've
09:27 entered onto, if we just want to stay on the ground that we're
09:30 comfortable in, then we're not going to experience any
09:32 of the blessings outside of that.
09:35 Well, you know what I like about what you said about
09:38 keeping it short is that, particularly if you're trying
09:41 to introduce this in a family that you've not made it
09:44 your practice to do, by keeping it short you'll keep their
09:47 interest, and as they become more interested they will
09:50 participate more, and if it goes a little longer
09:53 then they will grow into that, rather than trying to force
09:55 feed them something.
09:59 Many parents that I talk with say that there's this morning
10:02 battle in their home to get everybody up and out the door.
10:07 I've talked with so many who said: "I don't have time"
10:10 "for worship because it's just trying to get my children"
10:13 "ready for school and get them out the door".
10:17 What would you counsel with a parent that is wanting
10:19 to do family worship, but everything is so hectic
10:25 and at such a pace in the morning that they're saying:
10:27 - "How are we going to do this?" - The answer, believe it or not,
10:32 is in Genesis, the first book of the Bible,
10:36 "the evening and the morning were the first day,"
10:40 "and the second day, and the third day", you know
10:42 the creation story, so the evening, the day starts
10:47 at night, most people think the day starts in the morning,
10:49 but unless we've got to bed, and got the whole family to bed
10:53 at a reasonable hour, then we do find that those morning
10:56 hours, we leave it to the last minute to get up, we just
10:59 grab a cereal or a bit of juice and the idea of adding
11:05 even 10 minutes of family worship in there seems like
11:08 an impossibility. One thing that Carolyn and I
11:11 have learned is that 10 minutes in the morning is very valuable.
11:15 You think about the average morning, if you think you have
11:18 a phone call for 10 minutes in the morning, it's like I've
11:21 hardly got time for it, but in the evening 10 minutes is
11:24 nothing. What I'm saying is make it
11:29 a habit to go to bed a little earlier, that takes some
11:33 self control, that takes a commitment to the Lord,
11:37 "Lord, I'll be in bed by such and such a time",
11:39 which leads us onto one of the subjects we wanted
11:42 to talk about, and that is schedule.
11:44 So schedule a time for bedtime, then if you just get up half
11:48 an hour earlier in the morning, it opens up a chunk of time
11:52 for family worship, for some personal devotions,
11:55 and even for a hearty breakfast. So you do this with your
11:59 family; would you encourage people to actually have
12:02 their worship before breakfast, because if you leave it
12:06 to the end you're going to have somebody who's running late
12:08 and getting ready to go out the door, right?
12:11 That's exactly right, in fact, in our family we encourage
12:14 that if you're looking for good physical food for the day,
12:19 you need your good spiritual food for the day first
12:21 because you're going to get through the day without
12:24 your physical food, not that we go and starve ourselves,
12:27 but you're going to get to the end of the day if you never
12:30 took a bite, but often we don't think about: "will we get"
12:33 "to the end of the day if we never take a spiritual bite",
12:36 and we go through so many days starving ourselves spiritually.
12:39 So we encourage that in a very practical way in our family,
12:42 we have our personal devotions, our family worship,
12:45 - then we move on to breakfast. - That's good.
12:49 The reality of that is that we have tried in our family,
12:52 just through the push and stress of life sometimes:
12:55 "I'll tell you what, let's just have worship after"
12:58 "breakfast", and we've tried it about half a dozen times,
13:01 and I think we maybe did it once, it's just once you've
13:04 had the meal and you're into the cleanup and dad's
13:06 got to go, it just disappears, so do it before hand,
13:11 it works much better, the mind is clearer as well.
13:14 Excellent counsel. I was thinking as you were
13:16 speaking, I took care of my niece for a short time
13:21 about a year and a half, and she was a teen, 15, when I
13:26 first was caring for her, she was not in the habit
13:29 of eating a meal at the dinner table, so I found it very
13:33 difficult to get her to communicate with me.
13:36 When I suggested that we would start having all of our meals
13:39 at the dinner table instead of eating on the run,
13:42 at first she did not like the idea, so I just set a nice
13:45 table and sat down and after the first couple of times
13:48 of her sitting there, then she was the one who wanted
13:51 to set the table; sometimes maybe for a parent,
13:53 they may have to start just having that worship
13:56 in the morning and letting the children discuss how wonderful
14:00 the results were for them to see that there's a value
14:03 - to this. - It's new habit patterns
14:06 that we're really seeking to generate, and the Lord
14:08 is the only one that can give us that, but like I said before,
14:12 if we won't step outside of the ground that we're comfortable
14:15 with, then we'll stay where we are, but the Lord's calling
14:18 - us on to higher ground. - So families who are having
14:22 this devotional time together in the morning and scheduling this,
14:26 it sounds like this really would bring more unity and peace
14:30 into the family, what are some of the other pillars that you
14:33 see as holding a family together?
14:38 I think that we haven't necessarily really covered
14:40 the idea of a schedule because the schedule isn't just
14:43 to make sure that "I get my devotions", but for a
14:46 complete day for a family. We have found that it's been
14:50 such a blessing to our family, and particularly for our
14:53 children, to give them this stability and the security
14:56 that they have, is to know that "this is when we're going"
14:59 "to eat, and this is when I'm going to go to bed,"
15:02 "and I know that in my day mommy and daddy are going"
15:05 "to take family take with me", because we've scheduled
15:08 it through our day. So that is something that a lot
15:11 of people stand back in horror and say: "I don't want"
15:14 "to be scheduled, that's putting me in a box", but you know,
15:16 God is a God of order, and that is His character that is
15:19 in there, and we don't have a natural desire for it,
15:24 then I would encourage our viewers to ask Him to put
15:27 it there because it wasn't natural for us to want to say:
15:30 "Okay, we're going to got to be every time at this time"
15:33 "so that we'll get up every time this time... ",
15:35 and it's a step of faith to say that I'm going to do that,
15:38 but when you step out of faith and do that, then you see
15:41 the beautiful results coming into your family from
15:45 the stability that it gives. Now, we travel all over
15:47 the place, and our schedule is very changeable when we're gone
15:50 from home, but our children know when we get home,
15:53 "give us 24 hours to get unpacked and back to normal,"
15:57 "we'll be on schedule", and it gives them that stability
16:00 and security in the home.
16:02 You know, it's true that even teenagers that I've spoken
16:05 with, it seems that children want boundaries, they like
16:09 that security, it does give them that sense of security,
16:13 and they like consistency, don't they?
16:16 That's one thing I really want to encourage parents with
16:19 because in my experience, again, counseling with people,
16:22 I have found the sometimes, even I've had young people
16:25 come to me and say: "I told my parents I didn't like"
16:29 "it, and I would put on the outside it was a fight,"
16:33 "but really in my heart I loved what they were doing. "
16:36 So I want to encourage the parents,
16:39 even if you're meeting with a little resistance
16:42 there, they will thank you for it in the end, this is
16:44 the consistent scheduled life, the real battle is not
16:49 with young people, the real battle is with dad and mom.
16:56 If the Lord can work on our hearts, and we can bring
16:59 that into the children's life. Just to carry on on that topic
17:02 of consistency, not just consistency in time,
17:06 but also consistency in what is expected of the children.
17:11 You used the word "boundaries", what we like, as all people,
17:18 what we like about boundaries is that they don't move.
17:22 For instance, I don't know if any of our viewers have
17:25 had the chance to go to the Eiffel Tower in Paris,
17:29 I went on one occasion because we were born and raised
17:32 in Europe, and it has a boundary, a guard rail that
17:37 stops you falling all the way down into the city, and it's
17:41 nice that that thing is rock solid. You know it won't move,
17:45 so quite happily you can move around it within it,
17:49 within safety, and you know you can't go any further.
17:52 But what happens if we are not consistent in our parenting
17:56 is that we set boundaries, and we say to our young person:
18:00 "You need to be back home by 9", and they come in
18:05 at 9.30 and we don't say anything, and then the next
18:09 time they come in at 9.45, and we don't say anything,
18:13 then they come in at 11.00, and all of sudden we say
18:16 "No, that's not good enough. " Well, where is the boundary?
18:19 We need to be consistent, and the young people,
18:23 and our little children, they just thrive because they know
18:26 - where they stand. - In consistency, Carolyn,
18:30 have you counseled with people where the father says
18:33 one thing and the mother says another, what effect does that
18:37 - have on the children? - It's very negative
18:40 because then the child starts to manipulate the parents,
18:43 and then the child is running the home because the child
18:46 know "I go ask daddy when I want a certain thing,"
18:49 "and I won't ask mommy that question. "
18:52 I know because I did it as a child, I knew which parent
18:55 to go to to ask which question. I knew that ultimately my father
18:57 had the ultimate last say, but I knew I could go to my
19:01 mother with certain things or him, and it's very negative
19:03 in the family. So the question that we will
19:06 ask in what we encourage with those that we talk with,
19:09 is ask of your child: "what did daddy say?"
19:13 Our children will still do it even those we are training them,
19:16 it's within us as humans I think, to seek to get the best
19:19 angle we can, whatever our situation is, so they'll go
19:23 and I'll say: "So Caleb, what did you ask daddy?"
19:26 "Oh yeah... ", I say: "Then you have your answer. "
19:29 That self has to die within you because I might not
19:31 agree with him, but it's recognizing that the important
19:36 thing is to be consistent, and that is a foundational pillar
19:40 when we recognize how important that is, then later I can say
19:43 to him "Why did you say that? That wouldn't have been"
19:47 "what I would have said", and then in our couple communication
19:50 together, we can be talking about "Okay, so why did I"
19:53 "say what I did?" But keeping the consistency
19:56 there for the sake of the children.
19:58 - That's good. - There's yet another avenue
20:01 in consistency that I want to cover, and that is consistency
20:04 in standards. Often times daddy will say
20:07 "Children, take your shoes off", and then he looks down at
20:11 his feet and he sees he's got his shoes on,
20:14 maybe on the new carpet, or maybe it's muddy boots,
20:17 and we have sought, and we have found this gives
20:20 the children a great deal of confidence if they know
20:24 that mom and dad are willing to abide by the same
20:28 rules, I guess we could call them, the same standards
20:31 that the children are. So we don't have one
20:33 standard for them, and one standard for us.
20:36 Now, in some things obviously there's a different standard,
20:38 we don't all go to bed at the same time, mommy and daddy
20:41 go to bed later, but I think that's understood,
20:44 but where there's a principle that is binding on all members
20:46 of the family, daddy or mommy can't be exempt from that
20:52 because what does that do in a child's heart?
20:55 I'll tell you what it does, and it's pretty scary when I
20:58 realized what was happening. If we tell them to do
21:01 one thing, yet we do not do it ourselves, we're not consistent,
21:04 we are inadvertently planting the seeds of rebellion
21:08 in their hearts. No, they don't show up in
21:11 the early years, but sooner or later they see
21:15 the inconsistency and then they start to see inconsistencies
21:20 at church, and then they say: "Well, why can't I"
21:22 "be inconsistent", and then they say: "well, I know"
21:25 "the word of God's true, but I'm going off into the world",
21:28 and it's all because of those little inconsistencies in
21:31 the home. So consistency has to do
21:33 with time, and it has to do with standards, it has to do
21:36 with boundaries, it's a broad subject, we would love
21:39 to explore that a little further, but time won't allow.
21:44 I think that it's important for parents to remember as well
21:48 that children become who they behold, so if you're not being
21:51 consistent, if you're suggesting one thing and the child
21:55 does not do it, and yet you are doing it, the child is going
21:58 to rebel and they're going to become what they behold.
22:01 Now, in an ideal situation, we're talking about some
22:03 good things here, we're talking about family worship to bring
22:07 unity, having a schedule that is a set schedule,
22:11 standards that are consistent, being consistent parents,
22:15 not discussing their disagreements in front
22:18 of the children, but talking about that behind closed doors.
22:24 In an ideal situation, what other things do you think
22:28 would be good to bring more family unity?
22:32 I really want to express at this point that we're moving
22:35 on to the ideal, and if God opens the way, I would
22:40 encourage families to move out of the cities and move out
22:45 - into a country location. - Why?
22:48 "Why?" Thank you for your abruptness...
22:51 - ... Because; I'll answer it. - Go ahead.
22:54 By beholding we come changed, and if we are Christians
22:58 and we're seeking to live all for the Lord, to be prepared
23:01 for His return, and we live right in the middle of a city,
23:04 we will be changed whether we know it or not,
23:06 whether we choose to be or not, by what we behold,
23:09 and so will our children. So for us, we began to seek
23:13 the Lord earnestly to take us from the negative that we could
23:17 see around us, to a place that we could see Him;
23:20 and that country environment where you are beholding
23:23 the things of His creation rather than the devices
23:26 of men, is the ideal environment to raise a family,
23:29 to be as a family. There's nothing new under
23:32 the sun, all the way through the Old Testament you see
23:34 God's people out in the hills and all the trouble going on
23:38 down in the city. Abraham and Lot is just
23:40 a classic. Abraham was up there,
23:43 Lot was down there, Lot had to get out, he didn't want
23:45 to get out, and sometimes if work is there, and family
23:49 are there, it's a difficult thing.
23:53 For my wife and I, we prayed every single day
23:56 for 2 and a half years, "Lord, take us out from here",
23:59 and He did, God answers prayer in miraculous ways.
24:02 And as we minister, we have seen so many families
24:06 who have said "it'll never happen for me", and then
24:08 year after year as we see these families at family camp,
24:11 they'll come and say "You didn't hear from us for the last"
24:13 "9 months because this is what the Lord did... ",
24:17 and we could share hours here of different testimonies
24:20 of people that the Lord has heard their voices,
24:23 they've pled with Him to take them out of the city environment
24:26 - and the Lord has done that. - Wonderful.
24:28 For those who are still stuck, I'll just take a quick minute,
24:32 what would you tell the families that are stuck in the city
24:36 and they can't get out. How can they incorporate
24:39 some of those good values there?
24:41 Start where you are.
24:44 You don't have to be in the country to start implementing
24:47 family worship, it can happen on the 10th floor, or the 20th
24:50 floor, find a city park that's around there and just spend
24:55 some time with the children. That's one of the things
24:58 we didn't cover, but part of that schedule would be
25:01 scheduling some family time with the children.
25:04 Take them to the park, or if you've got young children,
25:07 just push them, if you've got older youth, then find something
25:12 that you can do together as a family: take a bike ride,
25:14 or whatever's a common interest.
25:17 We always try to keep it based around nature because that's
25:21 God's second book in a way, that's where we can behold
25:24 Him without necessarily having the Scriptures open in front
25:27 of us, but start where you are, God'll provide a way.
25:30 And would you recommend to parents that what their
25:33 children are watching on the TV, the music that they're listening
25:36 to, the number of Gameboys and electronic aids
25:40 that they have, what would you say according to that?
25:43 Well, you know, just as I've said, by beholding we become
25:46 change, and if you can't change out there for the time being,
25:50 you most definitely can change in here.
25:52 What we've start to do in our home was to apply the principle
25:55 of what sort of things were pure, true, lovely, honest,
25:59 and apply those principles to what was in our home.
26:02 You'll probably get rid of 50%, at least, of what's in your home
26:04 in terms of the things, the entertainments, the things
26:07 you read, the things you look at, what your children watch,
26:11 will start to change just within your own 4 walls,
26:14 and that will start to change what happens once the Lord
26:16 - is taking care about that. - But there's a key here,
26:19 it's called "the replacement principle", you can't just take
26:21 the Gameboy away, you can't take the TV away
26:25 because you'll set off a course that you might not be able
26:28 to stop, you've got to replace it with something.
26:31 The Lord's motto is "something better", and the best thing
26:35 that you can give your children is yourself: time with mom,
26:39 time with dad, time with the family, and then all of a sudden
26:43 they won't miss those things quite as much, if you
26:45 leave a vacuum, you're just generating a situation that's
26:49 going to be more difficult to deal with then the TV.
26:52 Yes, absolutely. Well, I think we've covered
26:55 some really lovely things, and very practical advice today.
26:58 I'm afraid that we're out of time again, but Carolyn,
27:01 I want to thank you, and Paul, thank you very much both of
27:05 you for the work that you're doing for the Lord,
27:08 we very much appreciate it, and we thank you for coming back.
27:11 Now, we're going to have you back yet again, so we're
27:14 going to leave our viewers with that tantalizing idea.
27:18 We're very appreciative of what the Raynes do for the Lord,
27:21 and I hope that you've enjoyed this program, and that you've
27:24 gotten something, an idea, that you can take before the Lord
27:27 and say, "Lord, help me to do this in our own family",
27:31 so we look forward to you being back again.
27:34 For those of you at home, we want to just invite you to tune
27:38 in next time, and until then, may the grace of our Lord,
27:41 Jesus Christ, the love of the Father, and the fellowship
27:44 of the Holy Spirit be with you, and remember: make God
27:50 the rock that you're building your family upon.
27:53 Thank you.