Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jerry Connell
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000210
00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome to Issues and Answers.
00:33 We have a very exciting topic to talk about today
00:36 particularly for those of you who are married
00:39 or are thinking about getting married.
00:40 We will be talking about keys to building relational intimacy.
00:47 We want our marriages to be like God ordained them to be
00:53 according to His divine purpose.
00:56 Before we begin, I want to share a Scripture with you.
00:59 I though this is kind of appropriate.
01:03 It comes from Songs of Solomon 8:6,7.
01:07 The Bible says: "Set me like a seal upon your heart,
01:11 like a seal upon your arm,
01:13 for love is as strong as death.
01:15 Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it. "
01:20 Isn't that the kind of relationship that you would like
01:23 to be experiencing with your spouse?
01:25 You can and God has the answers.
01:27 So today I'm very pleased
01:29 to introduce to you pastor Jerry Connell.
01:32 Jerry is a pastoral psychotherapist, he is also
01:35 a marriage and family therapist.
01:38 Jerry, you are from Lincoln, Nebraska.
01:40 That's where I live for 15 years now.
01:42 That's where you are living.
01:44 Thank you so much for coming and joining us.
01:46 It is very interesting to me that this is your topic
01:50 because we get so many questions, and I particularly
01:53 in going out and doing ministry, in women's retreats and revivals
01:57 A lot of people approach us about this.
02:00 What makes you an expert in this area?
02:03 I don't know that I would be an expert.
02:06 I've been married for 33 years, I've taken a lot of classes
02:11 in marriage and family issues, worked really hard to practice
02:15 what I preach.
02:16 But just again beside the classes, a couple of key things:
02:22 The relationship I had growing up with the person raised me
02:28 which happened to be my grandmother.
02:30 She was a mother person in my life, an awesome person.
02:37 Mother-son relationships influence to a
02:39 large extend a guy's
02:41 relationship, to understand relationships with females.
02:45 Another key was, when I got over being a workaholic pastor and
02:50 I could settle down and figure out what was driving God.
02:55 I could stop being a workaholic. That was many years ago.
02:59 I could actually spend time in my marriage.
03:02 As something that I suffered from too is I have that tendency
03:06 when you are in ministry is so easy to say:
03:09 "I'm doing it for the Lord, so
03:11 It must be right", but I understand what you are saying.
03:14 All of this training that you took is that the answer or did
03:17 your wife have an influence in making you a good husband?
03:22 I've got an awesome wife and as a wise person once said,
03:25 good husbands are not born, but created by wives who are
03:30 very patient and kind. Good wives are not born either.
03:35 Training and the books I've read, what I see coming in
03:41 my office, and the stories
03:43 I've heard when I end up working with.
03:47 Part of my training is in marital intimacy therapy
03:49 That really heighten my awareness also.
03:52 Have you noticed, just in general, it seems like people
03:56 are having more problems with intimacy in our days.
04:00 We talk so much about it, but still people have more
04:02 problems with their intimacy,
04:04 in the relationship with the Lord and with one another.
04:07 What do you thing drives that?
04:09 Definitely, it takes time.
04:11 We are such a highly driven society, we are over stimulated
04:14 by technology and so many things to do and places to go.
04:18 The relationships take time.
04:20 You usually put your emphasis where
04:23 your values and priorities are.
04:26 I'll get into this a little more as we get along in the program
04:31 today and share a lot of the insights that I think
04:35 the viewing audience will find incredible insightful.
04:39 Lets talk about some of the keys.
04:41 We cannot talk about all of the keys because they are so many.
04:46 There are so many good authors.
04:48 I don't want to defer some of the experts
04:51 that I have read their works
04:52 as well as some of their researches.
04:55 I don't believe in recreating the wheel.
04:58 But in the same time, when you put thousands and thousands
05:02 of hours of counseling practice over the years, you pick up
05:06 a lot of information as well.
05:07 That drives you to do more research and try to understand
05:10 so you can help.
05:12 Let me ask you a question to begin this.
05:14 Do you think that people have lost side of what Gods original
05:19 plan for marriage was?
05:21 I think that it is really key.
05:24 If we would were to go back to the beginning,
05:28 I've got such a high view of inspiration.
05:31 I actually really believe that the Bible is Gods word.
05:33 If God would be the God He is, He would give the instructions
05:42 Relationships are the most important thing in our lives.
05:45 If we will do it right, obviously God would want to
05:48 give us some information to help us to do it right.
05:54 If you look to Gods purpose for marriage in Gen. 2:24,
05:59 it says its not good that men,
06:02 I like to make it a little more generic, people...
06:06 And that word is probably generic.
06:09 It is not good that people should be alone.
06:12 It is said that for that reason should a man leave
06:15 his father and mother and be united to his wife,
06:18 so the two of them should become one.
06:19 Gods original purpose for
06:21 marriage is that the two became one.
06:23 We know that it is not just physical or sexual oneness,
06:27 not just the wedding ceremonies.
06:31 Someone once said a wedding doesn't make a marriage.
06:33 We give you legal permission to make a marriage.
06:35 It is not what you do before that, but what you do
06:38 after that really sets it up.
06:41 I could spend a lot of time on that one, but that would be
06:44 another program.
06:45 Gods original intention was a very deep sense of closeness.
06:51 That's what He wanted. That was Gods original plan.
06:55 He didn't create us to be so frenetic the way to not have
06:59 time to spend time with each
07:00 other or bond with each other.
07:03 The objective for marriage in Gods mind is
07:09 to experience intimacy instead of loneliness.
07:15 That's an interesting thing
07:20 I've read in manuals in university and other books.
07:25 You may come to this conclusion too Shelley.
07:29 I've read lots of theology
07:32 for lots of years in theology in seminary: books
07:37 in psychology, in philosophy, and many other books in all
07:41 kind of areas.
07:43 I've dealt with human beings
07:44 thousands and thousands of hours of clinical work.
07:50 I've come to this conclusion that the deepest needs in human
07:58 experience, Shelley I'm talking about the
08:00 deepest need, in the human experience,.
08:02 is to deal with the existential issues of loneliness
08:11 In some ways, I can see just right now
08:13 you just introducing it this way, the marriage is kind of a
08:17 illustration of what our
08:22 relationship with the Lord should be like.
08:25 The church is Christ's bride.
08:27 This idea of experiencing intimacy in relationship,
08:34 this hall in our hearts that needs to be filled with love,
08:37 what we are looking for it, if we come to someone and learn how
08:45 to be one and be purpose thought in action with him,
08:48 That actually helps prepare us to have a more intimate
08:50 relationship with our Lord or vice versa.
08:52 I've been referred to experts and Id like to quote one of
08:59 the authors, Id like to use the research of Dr. David Ferguson.
09:02 David Turison or Chris Ahol Eternman who wrote a book of
09:06 how to...
09:09 Dr. Furgason, if I remember well,
09:11 has 2 doctorates from Oxford.
09:14 This is a person who is well trained, well read,
09:18 A Christian family specialist.
09:21 He articulates the best I've seen and I read a lot of books
09:26 by several Christian authors.
09:28 Let me explain it this way:
09:30 If you look at marriage in the beginning and understand
09:39 the concept there, you've got it
09:43 What we see in the culture now is definitely isn't it.
09:46 So if you go b back to the origins...
09:48 Lets look at man and marriage in the beginning.
09:55 What did Adam have?
09:57 He was in the garden, he had a nice home, he had good food,
10:06 The best of food, he had the food that God provided,
10:09 he had a good job.
10:12 He was C.E.O. of the garden; God placed him over
10:15 everything; he really was C.E.O. of the garden.
10:19 But what about spiritual mentor. Who did he have?
10:23 The Lord Himself.
10:25 It doesn't get any better than that. No.
10:27 When you have a nice home, good food, good job, and a
10:32 spiritual mentor other then God Himself, you would think
10:37 you've got everything.
10:38 And God said there is something missing.
10:44 I didn't say that, God said it.
10:47 That's an interesting concept.
10:50 This is a key to marital intimacy, key number one.
10:57 There is something in the human heart that even God can't feel
11:05 in Himself.
11:06 Because we use our senses, we need to touch and feel.
11:11 God said it is not good.
11:13 Everything else was good, but He said loneliness wasn't.
11:18 So you have to ask yourself another question:
11:21 What is marriage in its original form?
11:24 Marriage, God said it wasn't good that man should be alone.
11:31 So marriage primarily wasn't for
11:35 procreation, although that's an important
11:39 aspect of the marriage, if you choose to have children.
11:42 It's not for recreational sex, although
11:45 that's both Old and New Testament
11:47 just good fun sex between husband and wife
11:50 That's not the primary purpose of the marriage.
11:52 It was to deal with
11:54 the existential issues of loneliness.
11:58 Now, later in the Old Testament, in Deuteronomy,
12:02 it talks about marriage being a covenant.
12:05 If you look to the biblical definition,
12:08 at least as I have come to understand it,
12:11 that marriage in its original form was a covenant
12:15 of companionship to deal with loneliness.
12:18 That's beautiful, but now let me ask you, because we didn't
12:22 really address this.
12:23 Talking about intimacy, can you explain, because so
12:26 many people nowadays seem to think that
12:29 if you use the word intimacy, that you're
12:31 talking about a physical relationship.
12:34 We're talking about something far
12:37 beyond just a physical relationship.
12:41 Would you like to give us a definition of what you mean
12:42 by intimacy?
12:44 We'll cover some of those again, but it is that deep, deep
12:50 closeness it's not just physical.
12:53 Anybody who has been married for any length of time at all
12:55 even they enjoy the physical intimacy.
12:58 It doesn't meet the deepest levels of the human experience.
13:02 The deepest level of the human experience is far beyond that.
13:07 Physical intimacy can actually do.
13:11 Sometimes, people try and
13:12 meet that need through physical intimacy.
13:15 That can take people into wrong directions.
13:17 So, if we are looking at God's original intent to have a
13:24 covenant of companionship, to do away with loneliness
13:29 what are some of the things that we do to sabotage
13:34 this intimacy?
13:36 There are a lot of things that the culture promotes.
13:41 Part of it again is when we get our sense of self and our values
13:47 through our work, through our busyness,
13:53 through our over involvement, through materialism.
13:57 There is nothing wrong in having some nice things as long as
13:59 they don't have you.
14:00 I want to answer to all of these questions, but I have to come
14:05 at it from a little different angle.
14:08 I want to lay down another key. "Ok"
14:11 When you start talking about intimacy, people go "ok" that's
14:21 for women, especially guys, that's for women.
14:24 We don't need that.
14:27 Wait a minute, if you say that, if I say I'm hungry
14:34 or I'm tired, or I'm thirsty I've got physical needs:
14:40 Right! You wouldn't look at me and say
14:42 Jerry you are really twisted aren't you.
14:45 You know, Why! Because to be hungry,
14:48 thirsty and tired are normal.
14:50 God said it is not good that man should be alone.
14:55 Relation intimacy needs are normal.
14:59 It is a part of what human being is.
15:02 Do you think that maybe one of the reasons that
15:05 God couldn't feel everything at Adams need is because Adam
15:10 was looking for someone who understood him as a human being
15:14 It seems like so many people want to be understood...
15:18 That is true, God understood Adam completely,
15:26 but it wasn't the same.
15:27 So people can be really spiritual and have a good
15:30 relationship with God, and still be be deeply lonely.
15:33 So another key: That is Adam did not have
15:43 the ability to meet his own need.
15:47 Now think about that for a minute.
15:50 With his job, with his house, with his food,
15:55 even with his prayer life,
15:58 his relationship with God.
16:00 He did not have the ability to meet
16:02 that other need: somebody else coming into his life,
16:06 to do it, to walk with him.
16:11 Let me go to another key then.
16:25 There is something I want to share with you today.
16:29 When I tell this to you, Shelley, I want to make you
16:33 a promise: once I tell you this and once the viewing audience
16:39 hears this, they will never forget this.
16:42 I want them to know. You will never forget this.
16:46 Once I tell you this, you are going think about this and go
16:50 huh, that is interesting.
16:52 And then you will think, yea that is
16:54 interesting, and then you are going
16:56 think about this some more and some more.
17:01 I've had people talked up to me after I've shared this with them
17:04 just in the foyer of the church the College view Church
17:05 in the college where I worked where I'm on Staff.
17:07 You know, Jerry, two years ago I was talking to you in the foyer
17:12 and you said, and he quoted me back,
17:14 and he said "man" that has changed me.
17:17 Spill it out!
17:20 I want to give you a little preamble first though.
17:24 I like you, believe in the second coming of Jesus.
17:28 I do!
17:32 I hope Jesus comes today.
17:34 If He doesn't come today, he will come tomorrow.
17:36 He will not come tomorrow, He will come next week.
17:38 If He comes today, I believe I'm ready.
17:41 Praise the Lord!
17:43 In fact, just so our audience knows how kosher I am
17:48 theologically, as a Adventist pastor.
17:50 I'm such a strong primarlinalist.
17:52 that I don't even eat post cereals.
17:54 But that's not what your going to remember.
17:59 Well you might remember that too, but.
18:00 Here is what I want to tell you that I know you will remember
18:07 from now until Jesus does come,
18:08 because I know what it's going to
18:10 do to you, once I tell you this.
18:11 After this big build up, I'm really expect something great.
18:17 This answers another question you asked me: do I live this.
18:23 Years ago, I came to this conclusion, even thou I believe
18:29 in the second coming of Jesus.
18:32 Life as we know it now,
18:36 this life, this thing we call life, I only get one shot at it.
18:41 And you do too. That's it.
18:43 This can lead at eternity and I believe in eternity,
18:48 but life as we know it now, we only get one shot at it.
18:52 Here is the punch line.
18:54 What I came to the conclusion years ago is that this is Cathy,
19:01 my wife, lifetime I'm using up.
19:06 The only chance she ever gets at it.
19:07 Wow! That is, That is very deep!
19:12 I want it to be good for her.
19:13 And it is my lifetime she's using up.
19:18 That is incredible!
19:20 And she wants it to be good for me.
19:23 That's incredible!
19:26 So when you have that as a foundation and understand that,
19:30 you want to build intimacy, because this is your journey,
19:34 this is your life.
19:35 You know I always think about
19:41 JD and I really do many good things for one another.
19:47 He is very sensitive to my needs and I to his.
19:51 I always try to make his life better.
19:55 But I've never stopped to think that I'm using up his life.
20:00 That is a very provocative thought.
20:04 Not one, that I'm sure it is registering on a certain level
20:10 right now, probably sink and deeper as we think about that.
20:12 What I find it does when people begin understand
20:15 that it affects their behavior.
20:18 That's excellent!
20:20 If people come to their relationship without
20:24 understanding, what kind of things are
20:26 you going to shift.
20:29 Let me just add a little side bar, because I'm a marriage
20:35 and family therapist, this is my children lifetime
20:40 I'm influencing.
20:41 That's good.
20:43 You deal head on with this issue that if this statement is not
20:53 that provoking to you, if
20:55 it's something that you're going, I don't
20:57 know what they was talking about, then aren't we looking
21:01 at a selfish nature,
21:02 selfishness will get in the way of this idea.
21:04 The Bible says to consider the other better then yourself.
21:08 So, if I consider Cathy better then me and she considers me
21:13 better then her, then you
21:15 approach each other with that level also on top of it.
21:18 The Bible teaches us a priesthood of all believers.
21:20 The task of the priest was to minister.
21:27 We minister to each other.
21:29 The Bible says to live with your spouse in an understanding way.
21:36 If I understand what she needs then I can meet those needs.
21:40 If I can dialogue.
21:43 So one of the other keys besides understanding
21:47 that it is your spouses lifetime that you are using up.
21:53 Is understanding what their needs are.
21:56 The only way you can will do that is by dialogue,
21:58 by talking, by asking.
22:03 One of the things I've done with Cathy over the years.
22:05 I've done it with my kids as well,
22:07 when I take them out to restaurants.
22:09 Daddy, daughter dates with my three daughters
22:10 and Father, bonding you know for my son.
22:13 But I don't do this every week or every month.
22:16 I say this because I don't want to be redundant.
22:19 But what do you think that a wife feels like then a husband
22:23 looks her in the eyes, and really locks on and says:
22:29 I want you to feel like you
22:32 are the most valuable person in the world.
22:34 What kind of things can I do
22:37 to help you feel even more valuable.
22:40 Many men just have a difficult time
22:43 even locking eyes with their wife.
22:46 You know why?
22:49 Barbara De Angelos says in her book
22:50 Intimate Moments for Lovers
22:51 she says that when you look in someone's
22:53 eyes, you are looking into their heart.
22:54 A lot of men have stuff in their heart that they don't
22:58 want their spouse to touch because it is too painful.
23:03 So the next key in dealing with relational intimacy
23:07 is if you can't do that, then you need to
23:10 deal with the stuff that's blocking that,
23:13 that's stopping you from dealing,
23:15 and often it's the hurt from childhood.
23:18 I deal with that with men and women all the time.
23:20 Dealing with the stuff, you know
23:24 the Bible says in Eph. 4:31,32 to put away all bitterness,
23:28 rage, anger, harsh words, slander, and malicious behavior.
23:31 Instead, be kind to one another, tenderhearted
23:36 But you see you cant be kind to one another
23:38 and tenderhearted if you have
23:41 anger, and malice and hatred,
23:43 and you are using harsh words.
23:45 Or even it doesn't necessarily have to
23:48 be somebody that is coming
23:50 from a malicious standpoint, but maybe somebody that's
23:53 been deeply wounded.
23:54 It may be a trust or commitment issue.
23:58 Hurt people hurt other people.
23:59 That's good, yea, that's true
24:01 So, that's another key, another key is to deal with.
24:05 Again this is my plea for the men and women
24:09 who are going to be watching this.
24:12 Is it's your spouses lifetime.
24:14 So, whatever you have to do clear away the pain,
24:18 so you can actually bond.
24:20 Because that's what God wants for people and wanted marriage
24:24 to be originally it's a covenant of companionship.
24:32 Jerry I just know in my heart that there's going to be
24:36 somebody watching the program today who is sitting there
24:40 saying: I don't know what he's talking about.
24:41 Or some man, some woman who is saying:
24:45 I don't get it when your about this is my wife's
24:50 life and I am using up.
24:51 How can we reach that person to say:
24:54 Please tune in again see this, or help
24:57 understand what you are trying to say that you really do have
25:02 not only a responsibility, but an accountability
25:05 before God, as the husband or as the wife, to put the other one
25:11 before you and to meet their needs.
25:13 In doing so it is not that you will become a doormat
25:17 and you are laying yourself out, but that by you having
25:21 this generous giving heart, you
25:24 are going stir something in them.
25:27 Then you are talking about training up a husband, I found
25:31 in my early marriage (my husband
25:33 is admittedly, he was a commitment phobic),
25:35 and the first year we were married
25:37 was difficult, but the more loving and committed I
25:40 would show myself to be to him, the
25:42 more he learned he could trust
25:44 me and wounds from his past were kind of washed away.
25:47 Soon, this loving person that I
25:50 knew I was marrying really immerged.
25:53 Because there was something, I think he was
25:55 kind of fearful, rather fearful of meeting
25:57 all of my needs, because
25:59 he wasn't sure I was going to stick around.
26:02 What can you say we only have a little over a minute left,
26:07 what can you say to someone
26:08 how do you reach a wife who is saying,
26:11 I wish my husband would listen to this.
26:14 Or a husband who saying I wish my wife would listen.
26:17 What's the key to understanding this?
26:21 I think the key Shelley, is for people to, once they understand
26:29 the concept, it's going to just start working
26:31 on them, and working on them, and working on them.
26:34 Then, they are going to want to do something about it.
26:38 Read some good books, there's lots of good books
26:40 on intimacy out there, in Christian books stores,
26:43 on amazon. com, and by mused.
26:45 But the other thing is to be able to
26:48 then start sitting down and talking
26:50 together about what the experiences growing up,
26:53 about the wounds.
26:54 Just listening to each other it will be amazing for them
26:58 to see what that does.
27:00 Because you have to deal with the hurt
27:01 inside, in order to really heal
27:04 and in order to let your spouse get close to you.
27:06 If you don't do that, you will probably won't let your spouse
27:09 very close to you.
27:10 Praise the Lord!
27:11 I hope that the viewers have been blessed,
27:14 as I have been today.
27:15 I just want to say that it is possible to have
27:18 a wonderful relationship.
27:19 I've been married nearly 20 years and my husband and
27:22 our marriage is so wonderful.
27:24 I thought it could never be this good, but it is.
27:28 And so we hope that you will take this to heart today.
27:32 I want to thank you so much for watching,
27:34 but take this advice to heart.
27:35 And Jerry, thank you so much for coming today
27:38 and opening this topic.
27:40 I think it is an important one.
27:41 For our viewers now at home,
27:43 I pray that you will put this into practice.
27:47 Sit down with your husband or wife, look them eye to eye,
27:50 share your past and get closer to one another
27:53 and to the Lord.
27:55 Thank you.