Participants: Agatha Thrash (Host), Don Miller, Rhonda Clark
Series Code: HYTH
Program Code: HYTH000234
00:01 Hello! Sleeping for some people is a chore
00:05 they dread it, for other people it's a great joy,
00:09 because they know they are going to go to bed,
00:11 get a good night's sleep, wake up the next morning refreshed.
00:14 If you have some mistaken ideas about sleep
00:19 or if you have difficulty sleeping, we invite you
00:22 to join us in this program, we'll have some tips
00:25 that may be helpful.
00:46 Welcome to Help Yourself to Health with Dr. Agatha Thrash
00:50 Of Uchee Pines Institute, and now here is your host
00:53 Dr. Thrash.
00:56 I remember one time when an OB nurse that I worked with
01:01 told me that she always dreaded night time,
01:05 she said she knew she could not sleep,
01:09 that she would go to sleep right off, but then she'd
01:13 wake up about midnight or one o'clock,
01:15 and then it was a long wait until she could get up
01:19 and start the next day.
01:21 I couldn't understand that kind of thinking
01:24 because to me sleeping is restful, to think about going
01:28 to bed is fine, I'm happy to do that,
01:31 although it is true that sometimes I don't want to leave
01:35 what I'm doing enjoying it so much, I don't want to
01:38 leave that so that I can get enough sleep but sleep can be
01:43 a misery for some people.
01:44 Now if you happen to be this kind of person
01:48 who has a problem sleeping then we have some tips for you
01:53 that may be very helpful, and I have asked Rhonda Clark
01:57 to join me in this matter of talking with you about sleep,
02:01 Rhonda I'm happy that you can talk with us today and be
02:04 with us on the program. - Thank you.
02:07 And you are going to talk with us about how to treat insomnia.
02:11 - Yes Dr. Thrash I happened to cross a very interesting
02:14 treatment recently and this is not something I have yet
02:17 had occasion to try, but it so interested me,
02:20 and it seems like it is based on good physiology,
02:23 I thought is was worth sharing with viewers who may want to
02:26 give it a try themselves.
02:28 This is a treatment called wake therapy,
02:31 and the principle behind it actually is to help increase
02:35 serotonin production, it was originally studied as a
02:39 treatment for depression, but the principles work very nicely
02:42 for someone with insomnia, most especially if you are the
02:47 type of person who has alterations between
02:51 periods of insomnia and then periods of time when you sleep
02:55 a great number of hours trying to catch up on your sleep.
02:58 The way that wake therapy works is that you stay up
03:04 all night, one night, you do not allow yourself to sleep,
03:08 you keep yourself busy, you keep the lights on,
03:11 you keep whatever you need to do to stay awake and active,
03:15 you do not allow yourself any napping during the course
03:18 of the next day, you should be physically active, spend time
03:21 out doors, and by the time bed time comes around the next night
03:26 the bed time should be early at least 9:00, and you should be
03:32 headed right to bed at 9:00 turning out the lights,
03:35 and trying then to go to sleep.
03:37 If you can't fall asleep, get back up, stay awake,
03:42 and make yourself stay awake, light on activity, this is
03:46 intended to try to reset the sleep cycle,
03:49 yeah! it's almost like fasting like we do for dietary purposes,
03:56 it's almost a fast of sleep, to help reset the clock
04:01 and they say that if you get back into sleep,
04:05 and sleep for a period of time, when you wake up
04:08 like the individual that you were speaking about the nurse
04:10 that you had worked with in the past, get up turn on the
04:13 lights, go and then eventually the theory is behind this plan
04:19 that you will become physically tired, mentally tired,
04:23 and your body will begin expecting this earlier bed time
04:26 and eventually you will be able to sleep for longer
04:29 periods of time.
04:30 - So let me review, the first thing that you do
04:33 is simply don't go to bed one night,
04:36 - Yes!
04:37 You stay up all night, but you do not allow yourself to sleep
04:40 Not even to dose the next day, you have to stay
04:43 physically active and on your feet long enough so you are
04:47 completely tired by the next evening.
04:50 - Yes!
04:51 - Then you go to bed a little earlier.
04:54 - Yes, at least by 9:00, you want the sleep that you get
04:58 that night to be within those most important hours
05:01 before midnight, so plan to be in bed earlier than when you
05:05 normally would and hopefully you will be able to go to sleep
05:08 after one night of wake therapy.
05:11 - So the idea is to reset the circadian rhythm, -Yes!
05:16 or the sleep cycle. - Yes.
05:19 - Do you know what success rate they have had with it?
05:21 - I have no idea, they've had wonderful success with this
05:25 in individuals with depression, that's because during the hours
05:28 of wakefulness, serotonin production is increased.
05:30 But then in individuals who have periods of insomnia
05:34 alternating with periods of long hours of sleep
05:39 that is when their serotonin production gets all messed up
05:42 the production of other important hormones
05:44 get messed up.
05:46 - Now I suppose that it would be good if they were exposed to
05:50 sunlight, during their time of wakefulness as
05:53 much as possible.
05:54 - It was recommended in the therapy that maybe
05:56 light actually... - You know one of the reasons
05:58 for that is that melatonin is sort of primed by sunlight.
06:04 and melatonin can be changed into serotonin,
06:10 melatonin and serotonin, they are similar chemicals,
06:14 and so they are relatives and can be helpful,
06:20 and the serotonin is the good disposition, good cheerfulness,
06:24 good sleep hormone, neuro- hormone produced by
06:28 the nerves of the brain.
06:29 Well it sounds very interesting, I plan to give that a trial
06:35 for somebody who might like to give that kind of thing a trial.
06:39 Certainly there are a lot of people who struggle with sleep
06:43 they want to sleep, they pray for sleep, they work for sleep,
06:48 but they probably don't know how, so this might be
06:51 the answer to some people for their sleeplessness.
06:55 - Something to at least try.
06:56 - Thank you so much Rhonda I appreciate your research
06:59 on that and presenting that for us.
07:02 Well there are so many things that are helpful in
07:07 sleep fullness that I would like to mention a few.
07:10 One of those things that we can say is very good is certain
07:16 herbal remedies, one of those is cat-nip tea,
07:20 another is hops tea, both of those are relaxing,
07:24 they are a bit sedative, they don't get rid of pain,
07:30 but they do make the person sedate, vitamin D is also
07:36 very helpful as a sedative type of hormone.
07:42 Vitamin D is indeed a hormone, it is also a nutrient, but
07:46 it's a nutrient hormone, we get this nutrient hormone from
07:53 exposure of the sun, exposure to the skin to the sun,
07:58 and the pro-vitamin D changes to vitamin D, that helps us
08:02 in a number of ways, of course it helps the bones,
08:05 it helps people who have diabetes to be a bit better
08:11 in control of their diabetes, women who are pregnant
08:15 and get exposure to the sun-light it helps their
08:18 off spring not to have diabetes as frequently as others
08:23 who do not get this pre-natal exposure.
08:26 Then another herb that I find very helpful is St. John's Wort,
08:31 St. John's Wort is rather famous for it's helpfulness
08:36 in keeping people from being depressed.
08:40 Some research has been erroneously published saying
08:46 that it does no good at all, but I believe these people
08:49 have simply not had a good experience with the use of
08:53 St. John's Wort, it is quite helpful in cases of depression,
08:58 of course not the kind that is a psychotic type of depression.
09:04 And then as a sleep producer it can be used as a tincture
09:10 or as a tablet or as a tea, if it is used as a tincture,
09:15 then I would recommend for those who generally fall asleep
09:19 quickly, but wake up in a few hours and can't go back to sleep
09:23 I recommend for them that they take a half dose,
09:26 whatever the dose is on the side of the package,
09:29 take a half of that dose, one half dose before you go to bed
09:34 with the hope that you will prolong the time that you would
09:40 stay asleep the first time, then if you wake up say 12, 1, or 2,
09:46 then take the full dose, and go back to sleep.
09:50 Since most tinctures, which you might be taking if you
09:54 take it in the middle of the night, the tincture may be
09:57 not very good tasting, then you should drink some water
10:01 with it, now drinking water during the night is very helpful
10:05 because it dilutes the blood and by diluting the blood
10:10 it makes a condition that keeps the blood from clotting
10:15 inside a persons blood vessels, so that has a two fold effect
10:21 on your health, one is it promotes sleep,
10:25 and the second is it helps you not to get a stroke or
10:28 a blood clot.
10:30 Now St. John's Wort is said to cause people to photo sensitive
10:36 and that is true but apparently only if you are blue eyed
10:40 and fair skinned, now a lot of people are not blue eyed
10:44 or fair skinned, and these individuals apparently have
10:46 no problem in the sun after taking St. John's Wort.
10:50 I always tell people who are blue eyed and fair skinned
10:54 if I tell them they should take St. John's Wort,
10:57 I always tell them that it would be good for them to avoid
11:01 the sun, but up to now I've never had who has had
11:06 any problem with the sun after taking St. John's Wort
11:11 and I've recommended it for dozens of people.
11:13 So I think it's probably not the big problem that it has been
11:17 said to be.
11:19 Now another thing very good for sleeping is called skullcap,
11:23 another one is passion fruit, or passion flower,
11:27 this very nice herb is sedative it also produces sleep,
11:32 Valerian root, Valerian root is said by some to be extremely
11:39 powerful, possibly toxic, again I have not found it to
11:43 be so, but rather to be quite mild and to quite beneficial
11:49 in all ways and not at all toxic,
11:51 I've never had anyone who had the slightest toxicity
11:54 with Valerian root.
11:56 Some people will become allergic to an herb just as some people
12:01 will become allergic to a food, if they do then they should
12:05 simply stop using that particular herb or that
12:09 particular food as the case might be.
12:13 Now Valerian root has an organic acid in it named
12:17 Valeric acid, it's one of the nutrients just like
12:21 ascorbic acid is one of the vitamins,
12:24 a very important nutrient for us, and so this acid
12:28 is something that people could become allergic to.
12:32 There are many herbs, many many herbs that are
12:37 sleep inducers and if you have a problem sleeping,
12:40 you may want to combine two or three of these herbs, but
12:44 as a general rule a single very good herb is all you need
12:50 and in fact a single very good herb may be better than two
12:54 or three good herbs, because one may be much more effective
13:01 in calming the nervous system and doing exactly what
13:05 you need to have done.
13:06 I have asked Dr. Don Miller to join me and talk something
13:12 about circadian rhythms, I know that you have some
13:17 experience with jet lag. - Yes
13:19 - Jet lag has to do with our circadian rhythms,
13:23 circa meaning around like circus or circle, dia meaning
13:28 day so it's our pattern or our rhythm around a day.
13:33 - Well what do you know about jet lag?
13:36 - I'm an expert on having jet lag I don't know if I'm an
13:40 expert on talking about jet lag but I have had experience,
13:43 I know what helps me, I know some of the things that
13:47 will exacerbate the problems you have when you are in jet lag
13:52 Let's just first talk a little bit about circadian rhythm
13:56 type of a thing, our bodies run on a certain pattern,
14:00 or a certain rhythm, we have a circadian rhythm,
14:03 we have a weekly rhythm they are finding out,
14:05 we have a monthly rhythm, women are more familiar
14:10 with that than men, but we also have it ourselves
14:12 so there are many different types of rhythms.
14:14 Our body sort of peaks at certain points,
14:18 and then we have our low points of the day, our nadir's
14:23 which is called, which usually happens around 2:00 or 3:00
14:27 in the morning, one of the things I recommend when I teach
14:30 natural remedies at Uchee Pines or anywhere in the world,
14:33 is that at night time it is a time for darkness,
14:36 God planned it this way the lights are out.
14:38 I have found this to be my experience, even a bright moon
14:43 does not affect me, as long as it's the light that God gave us
14:46 but if we ourselves turn on artificial lights,
14:49 science is telling us it resets circadian rhythms.
14:53 So I agree very much with Dr. Thrash that when you wake up
14:57 in the night time to have to use the toilet, we always
15:01 recommend you try to replace at least five ounces of water
15:05 for what you just lost, which therefore keeps your blood
15:09 from becoming to thick preventing strokes,
15:13 heart attacks, and other things.
15:15 But when you are getting that water, don't turn on the light
15:19 as a matter of fact when you are going to the bathroom
15:21 don't turn on the lights as far as possible.
15:24 That's why there are certain things that are very important
15:27 for sleeping at night, you should have a dark room,
15:30 a cool room, a quiet room, and a neat room,
15:34 the neatness has a lot to do with many other things but
15:36 nonetheless that if you are trying to go to the bathroom
15:40 without turning on lights you have to make sure you are not
15:42 going to stumble over something that you left in the middle
15:45 of the floor.
15:46 - What about a little night light that just fits into a wall
15:50 receptacle, do you thing that would be acceptable?
15:53 - As long as it's one of those dark blue ones, or an amber one
15:56 I think it's the white light really that has the most effect
15:59 upon the brain, so I have one of those, matter of fact
16:03 they make these new lights now, I forget the name of them
16:05 but it's a very soft bluish light that will really fill
16:10 a room, at night time when you first turn off your light
16:13 you wonder is that thing on up there.
16:15 You see a very faint glow, but at night once you've gone
16:18 to bed and your eyes are completely dilated,
16:21 when you get up at night, then the light flows in but not
16:27 enough to damage your circadian rhythm.
16:29 Now it's when we travel over seas across time zones
16:33 is when we run into a major problem, because we are
16:36 going to be going into a time zone which is different
16:39 than where we came from and all of a sudden our
16:42 circadian rhythms are upside down.
16:44 Sometimes literally upside down, when I go to Japan
16:47 we are talking 12 hours, and that is upside down.
16:51 - That's for sure. - And it's hard really to make a
16:55 real effort to correct that, but there are some things we can do
16:59 1. A few days before leaving on the trip,
17:02 get everything done, back off, start getting as close
17:08 to the schedule as you are going to be on
17:10 when you get there, if you are going to be there
17:12 for a period of time.
17:13 When I travel, it's not one of these, you go there for a couple
17:16 of days or a week, it's go there for months at a time
17:19 and so I try to start going to bed earlier, because everywhere
17:24 is going to be time zone if I go to Japan, it's going to be
17:27 another time zone, but I usually go to Eastern Europe
17:30 and so if I can go to bed at 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening
17:34 and get up at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, I am almost
17:37 on their schedule.
17:39 - Do you do that an hour earlier on Friday, two hours earlier
17:45 on Sabbath, three hours earlier on Sunday and so forth or
17:49 is it like cutting off the dog's tail all at one time?
17:53 - It depends on what your schedule is, and many people
17:57 who have the problem with jet lag, it's because they
18:00 really travel for business, and their business has them
18:03 working up until the last minute, and they dash home
18:06 to the airport and they are gone, and they have had no time
18:09 for this, but it's good to sort of ease into this thing I think
18:13 just sit there and change your circadian rhythm an hour at a
18:15 time, rather than a big chunk at a time.
18:17 Otherwise you are in jet lag before you even leave.
18:21 - That's for sure.
18:22 - So if we do it this way and then I find for myself
18:25 it's much easier flying west than it is flying east,
18:29 because here's what happens, almost every time when you fly
18:32 east, you leave in the evening you fly all night which is a
18:36 miniature night, you arrive in the morning and you are
18:40 expected to do something.
18:42 - But you are ready to go to sleep.
18:43 - You are ready to go to sleep, and if you do,
18:45 you are going to wake up at 9:00 or 10:00 and you are
18:48 going to be laying there in bed saying where did all that
18:50 sleep go.
18:52 - And what about sleeping on the airplane when you
18:55 are traveling like that, does that benefit one?
18:59 - If I am going east, it would be best for me,
19:02 as soon as I got on that airplane to go to sleep,
19:06 because I am going to be seven hours behind them,
19:10 so if I can go to sleep at 6:00 or 7:00 I am almost catching up
19:15 with where there schedule's are, not quite, but it's going to be
19:18 close, but here is the challenge unless you have a window seat
19:22 you'll have people crawling over your body, and unless
19:26 you have a sign around your neck saying DO NOT DISTURB,
19:29 DO NOT FEED, or anything else, you have people waking you up
19:31 saying do you want this vegan meal that we prepared for you?
19:34 - What about eating at night while you are traveling?
19:38 Of course when you get there you may be just after they
19:42 have eaten their last meal so you may be 12 hours or more
19:46 without food.
19:47 - A little fasting never hurts anybody.
19:49 - And it certainly is helpful for jet lag I have found,
19:52 I have found that if you don't eat at all for a whole day
19:57 that I handle jet lag much better.
20:00 - Well they have some interesting studies
20:01 coming out of Chicago where they have a feast, fast,
20:05 feast, fast, prior to going on a trip
20:08 across a number of time zones.
20:10 One day they eat, we're not talking about feasting until
20:13 you can hardly move but, having a good solid three meals or
20:16 two meals in our schedules, on the fourth day before
20:20 you leave, the third day before you leave, it's a very light
20:24 meals, and then a feast and then a fasting type of a meal
20:27 not a total fast but I like the idea of a total fast.
20:30 Then you get on the airplane but you have to stay
20:33 well hydrated because it's very dry up there, you need to
20:37 stay well hydrated, and they when you get to your destination
20:40 if you are going to a place like you are flying east,
20:43 it's going to be daylight, get as much sun as you can.
20:46 Get out and do some exercise, I like to have nothing scheduled
20:50 my first day, I find many times that when you arrive
20:53 they want to feed you right away,
20:54 - Oh yes.
20:56 - And if you fasted the whole trip so far, that's not a
20:58 bad idea, but then you've got to get some exercise
21:00 no matter how tired you are because for me I want to
21:04 stay awake until it's time to go to bed, that I'm going to be
21:07 on schedule for the rest of my trip there and as fast as I can.
21:11 Coming back the other way it's an incredibly long day
21:14 and usually I stay awake because I don't sleep real well
21:17 in the airplanes, I land in America, it's already
21:21 this afternoon, by the time I get to Uchee Pines it's evening
21:24 and I can go to bed right then.
21:26 I will find that when I am in jet lag for at least a week
21:32 when I have flown west, I will want to go to bed
21:36 between 7:00 and 8:00 at night, I am very tired then,
21:40 and I will wake up at my 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning time.
21:43 When I fly the other way, it will take me, they say it
21:48 takes the body at least a month to recover from jet lag,
21:53 from all the effects that you don't even feel, but it will
21:57 take me at least two weeks to get over that feeling...
22:00 Like sometimes I think did I get some disease over there
22:05 what happened to me?
22:06 - Am I even going to be well again?
22:07 - That's exactly the feeling, will I ever feel normal again
22:11 it's a terrible feeling, but it comes with the business.
22:15 Here is what I find, if I'm doing everything that I can
22:18 I'm doing what God wants me to do, and I pray to God
22:22 all the time I am doing what He wants me to do,
22:24 He has mercy and He has grace that will cover me when I am
22:30 in these situations where there is nothing else I can do Lord
22:33 but fly to these countries, because this is where I believe
22:36 you are sending me, but if I am in that process,
22:40 fudging a little bit, and doing my own thing, His Grace cannot
22:45 cover me quite as well, God is a good God and He takes good care
22:49 of me and so I try to get sunlight when I need sunlight
22:53 darkness when I need darkness, and I find that in my
22:56 circadian travels and my jet lag travels I recover a lot
23:01 better than if I would just do anything I wanted.
23:06 - Now let me ask you have you ever heard of taking melatonin
23:10 for jet lag?
23:12 I have and I have even tried it, how did it work?
23:15 I don't really feel that much of a difference for myself
23:18 I feel like if I do the other things that are important
23:21 let my body build it's own natural melatonin by being on
23:25 a good schedule before, getting plenty of sunlight,
23:27 when I get to my destinations, when it's time to get up
23:30 and I find that my body will produce whatever it needs.
23:34 I remember one time I flew from Cincinnati to Tokyo
23:41 that's a long flight, we're talking about 15 hours in
23:45 in the air, within 2 hours of landing in Tokyo I've got my
23:49 first lecture, it's in the evening time.
23:52 They take me to a hotel, I unpack, take a quick shower,
23:58 I get dressed, they come pick me up, as soon as they
24:00 pick get in the vehicle, [snoring] I am comatose
24:04 they get me to... It was a health food factory that I was
24:09 speaking to all the workers, they get me there, and
24:13 grace kicked in I was wide awake I was alert,
24:16 I could look at the people, I could talk to the people,
24:19 my mind was working I could answer the questions,
24:21 it was wonderful, it was great, it was a solid two hour lecture.
24:25 Back in the vehicle, as soon as I'm in the vehicle, [snoring]
24:29 comatose again.
24:31 Drug me into my room, I got into my bed and went to sleep
24:36 and still but even with that it took me those couple of weeks
24:40 to finally get back to completely normal again.
24:43 But I've got to make sure that I get plenty of exercise,
24:45 drink plenty of water, get to bed on time,
24:49 do what I know to do, because God will not cover our
24:54 willful ignorance, our willful disobedience
24:57 of His laws of health.
24:59 - Thank you so much for talking with us about this
25:02 very important thing of circadian rhythms and jet lag.
25:06 With so many people traveling these days we do have a lot of
25:11 need for understanding about jet lag.
25:14 Now I have a few top points that I would like to make
25:18 concerning insomnia, one is that the definition of insomnia
25:24 that is any sleeplessness that interferes with our normal
25:30 pattern and that makes us feel not good when we are in the
25:35 next day.
25:36 It is estimated that 30% of our population do suffer from
25:42 serious insomnia, and more than 60% of our population will be
25:47 insomniac at sometime during their lifetime.
25:51 They may not be more than a week or a month, but during
25:57 some time they will suffer from insomnia.
26:00 There are two forms of insomnia, one is acute insomnia,
26:05 and that is the one that occurs when you have something to
26:09 worry about or something big that you are thinking about
26:13 and you think about that instead of sleeping, that's called
26:17 acute insomnia, but the chronic insomnia is the insomnia that
26:23 comes on and lasts for more than a month or two,
26:28 then you have chronic insomnia.
26:31 Chronic insomnia is far more difficult to treat than
26:35 acute insomnia, so when we are dealing with
26:39 chronic insomnia there are several things that we can do.
26:43 We should remember the herbal remedies, another is we should
26:48 remember always to eat lightly especially at the last meal
26:52 of the day, and I have discovered in treating patients
26:56 with insomnia that if the last meal of the day includes
27:01 no more than two items, let's say potatoes and some bread
27:07 just two items, that that nights sleep will be much better.
27:12 If the person wears no tight bands not even shorts
27:16 or panty bands around the waist that can also help them
27:20 a great deal.
27:21 Then another thing is some exposure to sunlight,
27:25 the last time the sun shined and since sun doesn't shine
27:30 every day, when it does shine you should make certain
27:34 that you do get out into it.
27:35 The Bible said that the Lord giveth His beloved sleep
27:42 that's sleep of several different kinds,
27:44 and one kind is the kind that we have at night,
27:48 so I hope that these simple tips that we have given you
27:52 will help you to have always a good night of sleep.