Participants: Don Miller, Agatha Thrash, Wynn Horsely
Series Code: HYTH
Program Code: HYTH000170
00:01 Hello, I'm Agatha Thrash from Uchee Pines Institute
00:05 and I want to welcome you to "Help Yourself to Health"
00:10 You know, there have been times when I have thought
00:14 "I can eat this good thing and it won't be too much"
00:19 And then I eat another one and it IS too much!
00:23 Have you ever wondered why a person would eat too much?
00:27 Because it doesn't feel good and you don't want to do it.
00:32 Well we'll be talking about some of these things in the next
00:34 half an hour... maybe you'd like to join us. We hope you will
00:58 Welcome to "Help Yourself to Health" with Dr. Agatha Thrash
01:02 of Uchee Pines Institute.
01:04 And now here's your host, Dr. Thrash.
01:11 Babies usually do not overeat.
01:15 It's not until they get to be, oh... 3 or 4 years old
01:19 or maybe even 2 years old that they begin to overeat...
01:24 and that usually because mom has said, "Now, you can't leave
01:28 this table until you've cleaned that plate. "
01:32 And then they begin to realize that when they eat a lot,
01:36 that pleases mom.
01:38 And so they want to eat a lot...
01:40 And pretty soon, they begin to develop various things that
01:46 let you know that they're overeating.
01:49 Maybe they have intestinal problems or bad breath,
01:53 or they start gaining weight and they graduate into husky clothes
01:58 and pretty soon they get a double chin and then they get
02:01 skin problems and this lets you know that the baby
02:04 has been overeating.
02:06 But now, what about in adults?
02:09 Are there automatic cutoffs of the appetite for adults
02:15 as there are for children?
02:16 With a baby, newborn, he eats until he knows he's had enough
02:23 and then he doesn't eat anymore.
02:25 And you can continue to offer him the nipple again and again
02:28 and he doesn't take it.
02:31 Why do adults not do the same thing?
02:34 Why do they not realize that... "I've had enough, I won't eat
02:37 anymore. "
02:38 Well, there are several reasons for that.
02:41 Let me just describe a little bit, some of the controls
02:44 that we're now recognizing an adult has for the appetite.
02:50 First in the stomach, there is produced a hormone called
02:53 "ghrelin," you may not have heard of it.
02:58 Ghrelin is a hormone that signals the brain that we
03:04 need to have a good appetite.
03:06 And so, the appetite keeps going forward until you have
03:11 eaten enough to satisfy the appetite.
03:14 And that's one control of the appetite.
03:16 And there's another one...
03:18 When we eat, the blood sugar level goes up,
03:22 and, along with that, goes insulin.
03:24 Insulin stimulates the fat cells to produce a substance called
03:30 "leptin"... again, you may not have heard of that.
03:33 But leptin signals the central nervous system that you've
03:37 eaten enough and this is because of the complex
03:41 interactions of the food, the insulin, the sugar,
03:45 the ghrelin, the leptins and so forth.
03:47 All of these have to do with the control of the appetite
03:51 and it makes it a very nice system.
03:54 Now, what can interfere with this to make it so that
03:57 we DON'T have a good cutoff for the appetite?
04:00 The person just keeps on having an appetite and it never quits.
04:04 And even though they know they've had enough,
04:06 they still have such an enormous appetite and such an urge to eat
04:10 and the appetite is clamoring so loudly,
04:13 that they continue to eat.
04:14 What can make that?
04:15 Well, there are 2 big things...
04:17 One is that our great love of fats...
04:21 And if a meal is very fatty, then the fat tends to gum up
04:27 the works somehow with insulin and we aren't entirely certain
04:30 how that is.
04:31 We just know that a high fatty meal causes the cells to have
04:38 insulin resistance and somehow that messes up the works and
04:42 it can't signal the fat cells to produce leptin which then
04:47 would cut off the appetite
04:48 through the central nervous system.
04:49 So that's one thing... A heavy, fatty meal.
04:53 Then another thing that interferes with this system
04:57 is "fructose. "
05:00 Now fructose is a twin... almost an identical twin, to glucose.
05:08 Glucose will stimulate the production of insulin.
05:13 Fructose does not do so in the same way.
05:17 And so, if we take a lot of fructose, then the insulin
05:20 is not produced in the way that will signal the fat cells
05:23 to produce leptin which then signals the central
05:27 nervous system that the appetite should be cut off and
05:29 there is no more.
05:31 And so, fructose, which we find in a lot of foods today,
05:35 you can read the list of ingredients and you will
05:38 find those, and it's especially high in soft drinks.
05:43 So for people who have a problem with the weight,
05:45 they would be well-advised not to take the fructose-containing
05:51 drinks, or any other food containing fructose.
05:55 Cooks will recognize that fructose is also what is called
05:59 confectioners sugar... a very sweet powder used in making
06:05 frostings for cakes...
06:07 And that's why, when you go to a wedding,
06:10 you see the wedding cake there and it high with icing.
06:14 The icing is made from Crisco and confectioners sugar
06:20 mixed together about half and half.
06:22 Then they make this nice frosting and you eat the
06:26 high fat, high fructose food and you have no cutoff
06:31 for the appetite.
06:32 And so you could sit there and eat the whole wedding cake
06:35 all on your own... for the most part, unless other things
06:40 begin to get to your central nervous system and
06:43 make you feel sick.
06:45 Now, how can the person who is overweight learn what to do
06:50 so that they can lose weight?
06:53 Now I've told you a few things ... a few foods not to eat,
06:59 ...soft drinks, high fatty things, but there is much
07:03 much more to the problem than that.
07:06 In fact a much easier way...
07:08 and I have asked Dr. Winn Horsley, who is
07:10 my colleague at Uchee Pines, to assist me in describing
07:14 this matter to you.
07:16 This is Dr. Winn Horsley, who works with us at Uchee Pines
07:20 and you're going to tell us about foods.
07:25 Enlighten us... give us information that can help
07:29 with this problem.
07:30 Well, having been able to talk with you at other times,
07:33 I was just thinking how you've, in the past,
07:35 answered this very question you had about... what is it
07:39 that dampens or blocks this point of losing one's appetite,
07:46 of not having more desire for food.
07:49 And, I remember one conversation we had about popcorn... Oh yes.
07:54 And how popcorn... if one takes just the popcorn
07:59 that... you can enjoy it for a while but I don't think
08:05 that one would eat a gallon of that popcorn that
08:08 has ONLY popcorn... Yes.
08:10 But, you made the point about butter and other things added in
08:15 And the salt... butter and the salt... That's it.
08:18 And one might think it's more helpful putting in vegetable oil
08:21 but I think it's the same effect... The same effect.
08:24 Then it becomes irresistible... Yes.
08:27 And it does seem... Then you can eat a gallon... Yes, yes.
08:31 So in contrast to that, I remember what I saw in one
08:42 a supermarket little booklet that they had on foods.
08:46 There's one thing that stuck in my mind...
08:48 it had under apples that it has a substance in it
08:51 that actually suppresses appetite.
08:54 And the reason it rung a bell with me is that I've noticed
08:56 that since childhood...
08:58 In eating an apple or two, it seems to just be enough.
09:03 And perhaps there is some of that in a number of foods
09:10 when we eat them on their own and especially in the raw state.
09:14 There comes a point where you don't need anymore...
09:16 It's not that you're nauseated, you've just had enough.
09:19 You've had enough and you feel very satisfied... You do.
09:21 Nothing's clamoring, you don't feel an unrest...
09:25 you've just had enough.
09:28 I wanted to say something about this issue of diet
09:33 because one of the issues is that in my own family
09:38 it's something... that I remember my dad...
09:44 One of the things that he... he didn't struggle that much
09:47 with it but he was overweight
09:51 and so he would, at times, go on a diet.
09:55 And others, not just in my family, but many people
10:00 have gone on low-calorie diets for a period of maybe
10:04 8 weeks... maybe if they're really tough, even 4 or 6 months
10:08 And these diets, especially even the more restrictive ones
10:14 going down to 1000 or less 800 calories per day.
10:19 Nobody can live in those for the rest of their lives.
10:21 That's right... you can take it for a while.
10:25 And so, you take it for a while and then when you go back
10:31 of course you're going back, you're suddenly relieved...
10:33 You are no longer in this concentration camp of
10:37 restrictive food.
10:38 What do you go back to?
10:39 You go back to the diet you always had...
10:40 and that's the very diet that made you fat in the first place.
10:43 You've already done a laboratory experiment
10:45 on that diet... That's right!
10:46 It's going to make you fat.
10:47 And in fact, this thing of dieting for a month or 2
10:52 or 6 and then going back to your regular form of eating
10:56 Actually diet is a general word that means whatever you're
10:59 eating, so whatever your plan of eating is now, is a diet.
11:02 But, we've used the word for diet restrictions.
11:06 So they do the restrictive diet and then back to their
11:08 regular diet and then, of course, they gain the weight
11:10 back and then they go onto another diet.
11:12 That's been called yo-yo dieting
11:14 because what happens to the weight?
11:15 It will go down, of course, when you restrict for a while.
11:17 And then, of course, as soon as you go back to your
11:19 regular diet, you go back up.
11:21 But the problem is... they've shown this, that it's not just
11:27 the loss of weight, and then the getting back to where you
11:32 were before... in fact, the person is worse off when
11:34 he returns... Usually fatter.
11:35 That's right!
11:36 When you do this rather severe restriction,
11:39 the tissue that suffers first and foremost is muscle tissue.
11:43 And so the person loses a fair bit of their muscle tissue,
11:47 but then when they put the weight back on,
11:49 when they go back to their regular way of eating...
11:51 It is fat tissue they put back on.
11:54 Not muscle so much.
11:56 That's exactly right.
11:57 They would have been better off not to have done this...
11:59 And then the cholesterol suffers under that regime also because
12:02 it tends to climb if they have the family type of history of
12:08 climbing cholesterol, the cholesterol will climb with
12:11 this sort of yo-yo thing.
12:14 You know, with respect to these things about diets
12:18 and you see books coming out all the time on this,
12:23 the focus is very largely on how much you eat.
12:28 It's on how many calories.
12:30 You know, you have every food item with the number of calories
12:33 it has in it...
12:37 So people work and work at this
12:38 and the number of calories
12:40 and how many calories have I eaten today
12:42 and whether I can have another piece of this or that.
12:44 And I think just from having
12:46 talked with people that have wide experience...
12:48 yourself and others...
12:51 that we really could and should change that focus
12:56 from how much,
12:58 in terms of calories,
12:59 calories measuring the energy or fat-producing
13:01 potential of food.
13:03 But instead of looking at that,
13:04 look at
13:06 what kind of food...
13:07 what food we're eating
13:10 that's one issue
13:11 and the other one is when we eat.
13:13 So... what and when
13:16 rather than how much... That's right.
13:18 If we do that
13:20 and we make the right choices,
13:22 we have to become specific about that.
13:24 If we do that,
13:25 amazing things happen.
13:28 Maybe before saying anymore about that,
13:30 let's get to the specifics.
13:31 What about the "what"...
13:35 the foods that are animal in origin
13:39 from eggs, dairy...
13:43 In fact, you just think about those foods...
13:44 those foods were made for tiny, new creatures
13:48 that need maximum nutrition for growth.
13:50 And maximum growth
13:52 in a short period of time... That's right.
13:53 They're not made for adults.
13:56 Those foods are going to promote growth...
13:58 but the only growth that adults can do
14:00 which is this way...
14:03 Those animal foods really need to be...
14:06 in fact, I'm going to say it...
14:07 not just restricted,
14:08 they need to be eliminated.
14:09 If a person is serious
14:10 about losing weight,
14:12 they need to go on a diet
14:13 that has no animal products. Yes...
14:17 I agree 100%... Okay.
14:19 It's the easiest that way...
14:20 and a lot of times,
14:22 people will say, "Well I...
14:25 I like my meat,
14:26 I like my dairy products.
14:27 I can't live without cheese. "
14:28 And I tell them that
14:31 they can...
14:32 that there are some very good substitutes
14:34 And, we're going to be talking about that too.
14:35 Okay... Yes.
14:36 Now that step on its own...
14:38 if they will take that
14:40 step to a vegetarian diet...
14:42 I like the word "vegetarian"...
14:44 it's saying...
14:46 vegetarian,... it from
14:47 vegetation only.
14:49 Nowadays we use a lot the word
14:52 as though vegetarian can be
14:53 eggs and cheese, in addition lacto-ovo.
14:55 But a strict vegetarian diet
14:56 sticks just with vegetation.
14:59 When you do that, that's often enough
15:00 for the weight to start coming down.
15:02 That's fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts and seeds.
15:06 That's it.
15:07 And a wide variety... tremendous
15:09 And you leave off meat, milk, eggs and cheese...
15:12 So it's 4 for 4...
15:14 There you are.
15:15 So that's the first step...
15:17 is a total vegetarian diet.
15:19 That's the "what"...
15:21 "what" food to eat.
15:23 The next step is the "when. "
15:26 And the when of eating...
15:32 it should be first a good breakfast.
15:35 And a good breakfast should be early in the day.
15:39 We're not saying a brunch
15:42 or a lot of people,
15:43 the first meal they eat will be at noon or later.
15:46 No, eat early in the day,
15:48 not that long after you get up.
15:51 And then, the next point to make is
15:54 nothing at all until your next meal.
15:57 And so the very important aspect of the when is...
16:01 No snacking, not a peanut, not even juices...
16:04 No fruit juices.
16:06 Drink water...
16:08 Nothing at all until your next meal
16:10 and that should be at a time when the stomach
16:11 has not only finished its work for the previous meal but
16:14 has had a time to rest.
16:16 So 5 hours I think as being at least a necessary amount
16:22 and 6 is even better.
16:25 And this rest time is very important too for a
16:28 healthy intestinal tract.
16:30 The stomach will be more healthy,
16:31 we will have fewer diseases of the intestinal tract like
16:36 even cancer of the colon...
16:38 and gastritis and peptic ulcers are all less common
16:42 in people who have that rest period...
16:44 which means from 3 to, say, 4 hours for the complete digestion
16:50 of the meal...
16:51 and then a good hour for resting
16:54 before attempting the next meal.
16:56 Now you had something else to say...
17:01 The next thing, of course, is the next meal...
17:03 so that would be your midday meal.
17:06 If you want to call it a lunch.
17:08 Lunch, in I think many peoples' minds
17:10 is, you know, a sandwich or two.
17:13 But if we're making that a good, solid meal,
17:16 notice, I'm not talking about calorie restriction at all...
17:19 No... you haven't mentioned it.
17:22 So far it's been "what" and now it's "when. "
17:25 And so let's make it a good solid meal...
17:27 And so, I think the word dinner is a good word to apply
17:30 to this midday meal... I do too.
17:33 And so eat a good meal there and then again...
17:37 this same rule of nothing in between.
17:40 You finished your meal, don't eat the slightest
17:43 bit of any nutrition,
17:45 anything with calories in it.
17:46 There you can count you're calories... that's the time.
17:49 Yeah I bet, it's zero... it's zero!
17:51 Now, that that we've already described is very important
17:56 but if anyone that we're talking to is really serious about
18:01 wanting to lose weight...
18:02 Here comes the one thing that may seem hard,
18:07 and that is
18:10 should really not only be light...
18:13 if you really want to lose weight,
18:15 you should eliminate supper.
18:18 If you do that,
18:20 it's going to make the job just so easy.
18:23 AND... you make think of that as being a terrible suffering
18:26 you know... going to bed
18:27 with an empty stomach
18:28 as though you were some poor starving child
18:30 in Timbuktu or
18:32 somewhere, you know, in a concentration camp.
18:36 The person... everyone needs to realize this,
18:39 the digestive system adapts in a wonderful way
18:43 within not many days
18:45 to any regime you give it.
18:47 ...any reasonable regime.
18:49 People that eat their main meal at midnight...
18:51 they seem to be quite happy with doing that.
18:54 Dogs... pets that we feed,
18:57 often are quite content if you just...
19:00 many owners just give them just once a day their meal.
19:03 Two meals in a day is plenty enough... Yes.
19:06 And so, going without that
19:08 evening meal
19:09 the first time since you're accustomed to having it,
19:12 yes, you'll feel deprived.
19:14 But if you can just hold on,
19:16 think of people going through wartime
19:18 and the terrible hardships...
19:19 you can just bite the bullet for 2-3 days
19:24 of saying no to that clamor of the stomach
19:26 you'll find, after not many days,
19:29 that, in fact, you're not even hungry at suppertime.
19:31 Your digestive system works a little bit like a clock,
19:34 you can set it.
19:35 If you don't give it food at a certain time
19:37 and you're consistent,
19:38 it doesn't clamor anymore.
19:39 It is very definitely a timed process.
19:44 So we can time when we want to have appetite.
19:49 And then, if we are careful enough with it,
19:51 then it will cooperate with us on that.
19:54 You know, that simple a thing of just
19:57 going to a strict vegetarian diet
19:59 2 meals a day
20:01 and it's the first 2, not the last 2.
20:03 Just those items
20:08 in almost all cases
20:10 certainly in the vast majority of cases
20:13 is going to bring about
20:15 a tremendous change for anyone that's obese.
20:17 They're going to find that without even counting calories,
20:21 watching calories, etc...
20:22 that in between meal time,
20:23 that they're going to start losing weight
20:26 and they won't feel bad about missing supper once they've
20:29 gotten into the program.
20:31 Now one more point I want to make and that's this...
20:34 You mentioned that your father
20:36 had a problem with his weight...
20:40 I have met a few of the members of your family
20:43 and some of them are a little plump
20:47 but people tell me all the time
20:49 "Well yes, Dr. Thrash,
20:50 you can control your weight because you're a doctor. "
20:54 And Dr. Winn, you can control your weight
20:56 because you're a doctor...
20:58 But I know that your father was a doctor too
21:01 and your mother and everybody in your family is a doctor...
21:03 your extended family... they're all doctors.
21:06 This ideas of doctors having better control is just a myth.
21:09 It's a myth... Absolutely.
21:11 When we decide we want to lose weight,
21:13 the first thing to do is to pray about the matter
21:16 ask the Lord to help you to direct your program.
21:19 Thank you so much... You bet. Appreciate that.
21:23 Now I would like for us to discuss some things
21:26 about what you CAN eat.
21:28 If you're going to restrict what you do eat
21:30 and certainly if you don't have cheese,
21:34 it just seems to me that life would hardly be worthwhile
21:37 without cheese.
21:40 And so, if I don't eat dairy cheese,
21:42 what can I eat?
21:43 Are there other cheeses?
21:44 Why yes, there are many...
21:46 There are hundreds of other cheeses.
21:51 When you have dairy cheese, there are what... 5, 10, 15.
21:54 But with vegetarian cheeses, they are limitless.
21:58 They're just all over everywhere.
22:00 And my assistant, Lidia Seda,
22:03 who is from Uchee Pines.
22:05 She is a VERY good cook
22:08 and I'm always happy to eat at Lidia's house.
22:13 So you've got some wonderful things that smell good
22:16 and one thing is one of my very favorite foods,
22:20 I can see that it's macaroni and cheese,
22:22 or a similar dish of pasta and cheese.
22:25 Pasta and cheese, yes, these types of cheeses
22:29 are wonderful because they are filling.
22:32 And that's one of the things about having fat in the diet,
22:35 it's filling. It helps to satisfy.
22:38 And these types of cheeses that we have here
22:41 also are filling.
22:42 They're made out of nuts.
22:43 And nuts do have oils
22:45 with a natural source of oil
22:47 and also they're combined with fiber.
22:49 So that the oil and other nutrients are combined
22:52 together with the fiber
22:53 and are released and are worked into the metabolism
22:56 a little differently than when they're in a concentrated form.
22:59 ...as mentioned,
23:01 the nuts, they have oils and then they have fiber..
23:05 Both of these are excellent for the cholesterol.
23:08 since they are vegetable oils... that's right...
23:11 and fiber.
23:12 And of course, animal products don't have any fiber...
23:17 Milk doesn't have any fiber
23:19 and meat, although it fibrous,
23:22 fibrous tissue is a protein,
23:24 it's not a fiber which is a carbohydrate... Exactly.
23:28 And what they are finding now with different types of studies
23:31 is that high fat diets also are conducive to
23:34 different types of cancers.
23:36 There was some research done at the Ludwig Institute for
23:40 Cancer Research in Toronto
23:42 and what they found is that individuals that were placed on
23:46 90 grams of fat per day
23:48 were more than likely to increase their risk of colon
23:54 cancer, than those that were on 30 grams of fat per day.
23:58 And the interesting aspect about that, Dr. Agatha Thrash,
24:02 is that a plain hamburger, some French fries,
24:06 and a donut, would equal 90 grams of fat.
24:10 ...And that's what many Americans eat.
24:14 So they are raising their chances of getting colon cancer.
24:19 Yes, that's a lot of fat.
24:21 And I can remember before I paid any attention to my diet
24:25 in my irresponsible youth,
24:27 that I would eat that at least once a day,
24:30 maybe even a couple of times a day... Exactly.
24:32 ...and feel good about not having eaten too much.
24:35 And so would I...
24:37 quite a few years ago, when I first arrived in Uchee Pines,
24:41 I know you know the story and some others know it...
24:43 that I actually weighed about a little over 200 pounds.
24:47 And now you weigh...
24:48 about 155... ah ha
24:51 You're a little taller than I am Yes, exactly.
24:54 So what I found was that as Dr. Horsley mentioned...
24:58 Just going on a sensible diet, a 2-meal plan
25:02 and getting some basic daily exercise,
25:05 not being excessive but being consistent
25:07 is the most important thing.
25:09 And not focusing so much on the weight
25:12 but focusing on having a good diet...
25:14 And having fun with your menus and discovery.
25:17 Well I'd like you to tell us,
25:19 very briefly, how you made these beautiful foods.
25:22 There are two of them.
25:23 Yes there are; one is the American cheese and...
25:27 This must be the American cheese...
25:29 This is the American cheese
25:30 and this one is the cashew cheese.
25:34 And, let us show you how to make these cheeses.
25:36 Let us show you with the ingredients here...
26:00 The dill seed is optional.
26:08 After that, you blend all your ingredients together
26:11 and you have your cashew cheese sauce.
26:13 For the American cheese is the following:
26:41 The carrot or pimento is to give it that cheesy color as well.
26:46 So you just put that all together...
26:48 the boiling water melts the Emes gelatin... Yes
26:52 Emes gelatin is a pectin-type of gelatin
26:56 which comes from plants and not the type of gel that comes
27:00 the hides and horns and hoofs of animals.
27:04 Animals... yes, it's a plant base instead of animal based
27:08 So then you can just pour it into a mold?
27:10 You pour it into a mold, place in the refrigerator
27:13 and let it sit for 2 hours
27:15 and then you can remove it from the mold
27:18 and it's ready to slice.
27:19 And make sandwiches... Make sandwiches... exactly.
27:22 You can make sandwiches then with this cheese and tomatoes
27:25 and lettuce and it's delightful.
27:28 You can use a little bit of the cashew cheese
27:30 to spread on the bread as a spread for the bread.
27:34 In fact, you can use that for a savory breakfast as well.
27:38 So you can easily see
27:40 that even without dairy cheeses
27:42 which have the growth-promoting
27:44 factors in them that make adults grow this way,
27:47 we can still live and still enjoy cheese.
27:51 We can say that the Lord is good and gives us plenty to eat.