Participants: Agatha Thrash, Wynn Horsely, Don Miller
Series Code: HYTH
Program Code: HYTH000168
00:01 Hello, I'm Agatha Thrash, from Uchee Pines Institute
00:05 and we have a program for you today on "phytochemicals. "
00:09 It's a big word but it means something very simple
00:12 and very common.
00:13 The Lord put in all of the foods that He intended for us to eat
00:17 every nutrient that He intended for us to have...
00:20 ...all that will be needed to keep us in good health.
00:23 Listen to this from Genesis 1:29,
00:25 "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing
00:29 seed which is upon the face of all the earth and every tree
00:33 in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you
00:37 it shall be for food. "
00:39 And so we have here, the prescription that God gave
00:42 to man for his diet.
00:44 We hope you will join us for this program.
01:08 Welcome to "Help Yourself to Health"
01:10 with Dr. Agatha Thrash of Uchee Pines Institute.
01:13 And now, here's your host, Dr. Thrash.
01:20 We can have perfect confidence that all we need to preserve our
01:25 and to make us strong and cheerful can be found
01:29 in the food that God has provided.
01:32 Then we might say...
01:33 Well why is it that sometimes, for some reason,
01:36 we get a little nutrient deficient,
01:39 or perhaps we even find that what we have been eating
01:43 is not protecting us against some of those things that
01:47 afflict mankind at this time.
01:49 And so what we want to do is to study the chemicals
01:53 that God put in foods in the very beginning...
01:56 In this way, we can know what foods we may have
01:59 overemphasized because our modern palates
02:03 call for something that may not be the best for us,
02:07 or some of the refinements or manufactured products
02:11 that we have taken, have not been in cooperation with our
02:16 body's own physiology.
02:18 And so as we study these things,
02:20 we can know what we should emphasize in the diet,
02:24 and what things we should minimize.
02:27 So I've asked Dr. Winn Horsley, who is one of my colleagues
02:30 at Uchee Pines... he is one of the staff physicians there,
02:35 and he is going to be assisting me to talk with you about
02:40 I like this topic.
02:42 I like to talk about foods.
02:43 I like food.
02:45 And so I'd like us to just talk about phytochemicals...
02:51 a big word.
02:54 The very words that you said was what I was going to say...
02:57 that this, to me, is a very interesting topic.
03:02 Well, I'll make the point in a minute.
03:04 Maybe one should look at what the word means...
03:07 Does that make sense?
03:08 "Phyto" is a root that simply means "plant. "
03:13 And, "phytotherapy" is therapy with plants.
03:18 There are whole courses of study in Europe where they
03:23 study herbs and so on...
03:25 So phytotherapy is a well-recognized thing.
03:29 "Phytochemicals" then are chemicals that are in plants
03:31 and especially in foods...
03:34 Well, I see you've got quite a sheaf of papers and I've got
03:37 quite a sheaf of papers...
03:38 The subject is a big one.
03:40 And what we have is a small part of a huge library
03:46 on this subject of phytotherapies and
03:51 You know, I get the impression that this has really become
03:56 a major area of study in just the last 10, maybe 15 years.
04:02 I know that when I went through medical school, and even after,
04:06 that there really wasn't the same kind of interest now that's
04:11 impacting not just nutritionists
04:13 but doctors that are at all open to this area of the protective
04:18 chemicals that God has put into foods.
04:20 Yes, and as we study even one food, we can say...
04:24 well this food, I like it.
04:26 Say for instance, apples...
04:28 I like apples because they're high in boron.
04:31 Boron is good for the bones...
04:33 And, therefore, women ought to eat apples, because they are
04:36 good for the bones with the boron.
04:38 But then somebody else says...
04:40 But apples also have this principal that normalizes
04:43 the blood pressure.
04:45 Ah yes, so everybody who is susceptible to
04:47 high blood pressure, should be taking an apple a day...
04:52 that's good!
04:53 But then somebody else says...
04:55 But then there's a lot of fiber in apples...
04:58 Well yes, anybody who has... so we just, you know,
05:01 we go on and on...
05:02 It's not just one food has one property... Right.
05:05 You know, one could even ask...
05:07 why didn't this become a subject of study?
05:11 There was lots of science back in the 1950s and earlier...
05:14 And maybe one should clarify that when we are talking about
05:18 phytochemicals, we're not talking about the macronutrients
05:23 ...the BIG things that are in food usually.
05:27 I suppose one could use it that way, but that's not usually
05:30 the way the word is used.
05:31 It's not talking, therefore, about protein or fat,
05:35 or carbohydrate that's in food.
05:37 And, it's not even talking about the trace nutrients like
05:42 vitamins... where if a person or an animal, when they do
05:45 experiments, they give them a diet without a certain vitamin,
05:48 for a certain number of weeks or months and soon they'll
05:51 develop a deficiency disease or even die.
05:53 Here, we're talking about something that has a very
05:57 unique property... a phytochemical, in general,
06:00 is trace, but if you don't give it to the person,
06:04 they won't die soon, necessarily
06:08 they won't necessarily develop an obvious deficiency disease,
06:12 but what's been found is...
06:13 that as the years go by,
06:15 they can age quicker.
06:18 Or, they don't have that protection that would
06:23 keep them from cancer.
06:25 And so, one can see why,
06:26 in original studies on nutrition,
06:29 they just didn't show up early along.
06:32 Yeah... because it takes years sometimes or decades
06:35 for these things to develop.
06:37 And another thing that we find in the study of phytochemicals,
06:41 is that... it's the balance also...
06:45 it's not just that a nutrient is there, or the complex or
06:50 cluster of nutrients that join together to make a perfect food
06:57 for the body.
06:58 That also is a part of this whole picture of the study of
07:02 phytochemicals and makes it so fascinating.
07:04 I think that isn't taking into account enough even yet...
07:08 ...that it's not just any one, or even all of them saying
07:13 in that you'd take it different times but the
07:16 combination that interacts probably is having the effect.
07:21 So we know that our Father put all of these things in the foods
07:26 in the beginning, so that we would eat them more in the
07:29 natural state.
07:30 So we couldn't expect that if we take selenium and lithium and
07:37 and administer these in what we know to be
07:38 the daily requirement,
07:40 we can't get the same effect as we can if we take the whole food
07:46 This is before we started talking here, just thinking
07:49 about this whole issue of phytochemicals...
07:51 When you take it in well, you begin to see that it just
07:57 goes straight against mankind's tendency to want to analyze
08:02 and then willy-nilly play with foods...
08:05 Instead, we should treat it almost like a sacred thing
08:10 that God has put together just exactly what He wants and knows
08:14 that we need.
08:15 It's not wrong for us to cook things and to mix things
08:20 and sometimes we even peel or slice or take the heart of
08:25 something instead of the whole thing...
08:26 that isn't wrong but what is wrong is for us to
08:29 think that we can depend on supplying each little nutrient
08:34 and that's going to do the same work that God intended
08:38 when he made the whole thing.
08:41 And, you know, talking about how one food can sort of
08:46 become the prototype of health for a certain organ,
08:52 I would like us to talk about men's diseases.
08:55 We often don't do that.
08:57 We concentrate on women's diseases a lot...
09:00 But do you have any special information that you could tell
09:05 people about what would keep the prostate healthy,
09:08 and how to protect the prostate.
09:10 Maybe not just with foods, but with other things as well.
09:13 Well, we should maybe say a word about the prostate...
09:16 it's one of the issues of men's health that's right up
09:20 at the top.
09:22 Almost without exception, men, as they get older,
09:26 and from the age of sometimes even as early as 40 on...
09:30 and by the time of 60 years of age is reached,
09:33 I would guess it's way over 80% of men have trouble
09:36 with the prostate enlarging and starting to give
09:39 urinary symptoms.
09:41 And then prostate cancer turns out to be the most common cancer
09:46 in men and perhaps in humans.
09:49 I guess almost every man old enough will get it..
09:53 So, this issue of whether our diet can affect the prostate's
09:59 health is one of real concern.
10:01 Do you suppose that it's diet that determines whether...
10:05 since we can expect that all men will eventually get cancer
10:09 of the prostate, but so few men, relatively speaking,
10:13 die of cancer of the prostate...
10:15 do you suppose it's diet?
10:18 Or is it lifestyle or both that protects some men.
10:22 There is a fatal prostate cancer and a nonfatal prostate cancer.
10:26 What makes the difference?
10:27 They both look alike when I see them under the microscope.
10:30 Well, you know, on that issue,
10:33 we don't even need to guess or suppose because there has been
10:36 some good scientific study that has made clear correlations
10:40 between the diet that a man is following and whether he ends up
10:46 with prostate cancer and the risk of death from it.
10:51 Some of this study has shown things that could be suspected
10:58 by just the wealth of material that's out there about
11:00 diseases caused by animal foods.
11:03 And sure enough, all the animal foods...
11:06 meat, eggs, dairy products do tend to cause an increase
11:11 in prostate cancer.
11:14 One that sticks in my mind, because it's old fashioned
11:20 cow milk that's considered the perfect food,
11:23 this graph showed that when there was more than 2 glasses
11:30 of cow's milk
11:31 consumed per day,
11:33 the risk of prostate cancer
11:35 in that man went up quite sharply...
11:38 Well you know, that's similar to what it is with breast cancer
11:42 As certain animal products, especially milk, goes up,
11:47 the incidence of breast cancer goes up.
11:50 I have long suspected that there might be a relationship
11:55 between the factors that cause breast cancer and the factors
11:59 that cause prostate cancer.
12:01 Do you have an idea about that?
12:02 I think that there really is quite good evidence
12:05 and doctors have realized this
12:08 even in the treatment of, say breast cancer or prostate
12:12 cancer, it's well known that the corresponding hormones...
12:17 female hormones in a woman with breast cancer
12:20 and the male hormone, testosterone, in a man
12:23 with prostate cancer, are going to often, not always,
12:27 but the large majority of cases are, in fact, going to foster
12:31 promote the growth of that cancer.
12:33 And, therefore, if you can block that hormone's activity...
12:37 in fact they used to do surgery,
12:42 maybe it's still done...
12:43 of castrating a man with prostate cancer and then
12:48 your growth will be cut way down in the cancer.
12:52 Because the major testosterone source is lost... That's right.
12:55 Yes, I remember back when I was in medical school,
12:59 they were already doing...
13:00 in fact, that was one of the best procedures considered was
13:03 a prostatectomy with an orchiectomy at the same time...
13:07 so the testes and the prostate were both taken out
13:10 at the same time.
13:11 Now, on that issue, that's where these phytochemicals are
13:14 so interesting.
13:17 There are plant foods that have phytochemicals
13:24 that act as hormones.
13:29 They mimic the action of estrogen or of testosterone.
13:35 In general, they are quite gentle compared to the force of
13:40 one's own hormones... and, therefore, they're not going to
13:48 cause a tremendous effect.
13:50 And, in fact, the gentleness of their stimulation towards
13:54 that hormone activity, is a help because they will occupy
13:59 the site... the receptor site
14:02 where that hormone would act in your body,
14:04 and so they're blocking the hormone... your own hormone
14:08 that would stimulate more strongly
14:12 and so that they are then in fact damping, slowing down
14:17 that stimulation that you would get from one's own hormone.
14:20 It's interesting how our Heavenly Father looks down
14:23 through the centuries and knew that in this age,
14:27 with all the things that we have to make us have an increased
14:31 risk of cancer...
14:32 He gave us that protective thing with the plants.
14:34 He put into the plants that that would occupy
14:38 the stimulating site for cancer by our own very powerful
14:45 I'm thankful to our Heavenly Father for the way that He made
14:48 us and made a world for us to live in that was very
14:53 Should we mention one of those phytochemicals?
14:56 Why yes, I'd like it if you would.
14:57 In fact, we won't get through your list here... nor mine.
15:01 Well, you might have more than I do.
15:03 I didn't write down a whole lot but I thought we should
15:04 say one anyway... "lycopene"
15:08 Lycopene is one of these phytochemicals that has been
15:14 found to definitely help prevent and perhaps even
15:19 help when the cancer is present, to keep it from growing so fast.
15:25 I've heard of dosing like 15 to 20 mg 3 times a day
15:30 of lycopene which is found in tomatoes...
15:33 I'll tell you, instead of taking a little pill with 15 to 20 mg
15:38 of lycopene 3 times a day,
15:39 I would much rather eat the tomatoes.
15:41 Absolutely... a whole tomato.
15:43 No reason why you can't eat...
15:44 you don't have to eat just a little slice... ah no..
15:47 You can eat a whole tomato because they are only this
15:50 big... you know we always think of eating a whole apple.
15:52 Now you mentioned about the Lord does let us do some things
15:55 with food and cooking can, in fact, be helpful.
15:59 Here's a good example... Uh huh.
16:01 With cooking of tomatoes, it's felt that,
16:06 in fact, if anything, you release more lycopene.
16:09 And so, tomato sauce, as long as you're using other good
16:12 ingredients with it, is a worthwhile thing to use.
16:15 Yes, in fact, it probably makes it so that we can absorb it
16:20 And so the Lord instructs us that we should cook and
16:23 that we should grind and whatever we wish to but
16:28 He has made these foods for us very nicely.
16:31 Now I notice here that tomatoes are red and lycopenes are red...
16:37 What about watermelons and beets and some mangos
16:43 and some other tropical fruits?
16:44 Are they also high in lycopenes?
16:47 Dr. Agatha, you're asking because I think you've got the
16:49 answer... Yes, we don't have to take the pill.
16:53 And let's say you're sensitive to tomatoes... is all lost?
16:57 You're not going to be able to get lycopenes because
16:59 unfortunately you're sensitive... No, you can
17:03 eat a lot of other things.
17:04 You can eat tomatoes, or ANYTHING that's red.
17:07 And a lot of things that are red are just absolutely
17:11 wonderful to the palate as well.
17:14 I'd like to come in with one other thing that has a
17:18 fascinating story to me with regard to prostate cancer.
17:22 This time, it's probably not lycopene.
17:28 It's a phytosterol... that is one of these phytochemicals
17:35 that acts like a hormone...
17:38 Sterol... I would think that sterol would be one of the
17:41 steroidal-types like estrogen and testosterone... Yes.
17:46 Yes, those steroidal... phytosterols
17:50 Phytosterols and this was with respect to red clover... Ah yes
17:58 Red clover has quite a lot of this in it.
18:00 Now the story is this...
18:02 A doctor in Australia must have had some symptoms
18:07 of perhaps a lump that was felt in his prostate.
18:10 He had it checked out and a biopsy showed it was cancer.
18:16 For some reason, there was a delay until the definitive
18:19 surgery was done.
18:20 During this time, he went ahead and took,
18:24 I guess on a hunch... he had an idea that red clover might do
18:28 something and he took a concentrated extract of
18:32 red clover for those days or weeks until the surgery occurred
18:37 When they did the surgery,
18:39 and the pathologist looked at what should have been
18:41 ...you know, necrotic or... not necrotic... it should have been
18:45 cancer cells there...
18:46 Instead what was seen was a whole ream of dead necrotic...
18:53 that's where I want to use the word... the dead cells
18:55 And, as a result of that, there has been quite a spark of
18:59 interest that has ignited over the issue of whether, in fact,
19:03 red clover or other sources of similar phytosterols
19:08 might be very useful for prostate cancer and perhaps
19:11 breast cancer, since the two have similarities like that.
19:15 Yes, there is a product on the market,
19:19 I believe called, is it "Promensil"... that's the one.
19:22 ...That we have used for men with prostate cancer.
19:25 And, you know, it's interesting that those cancer cells
19:29 actually died with this nutrient ... Yes
19:32 So there are nutrients that build and there are nutrients
19:35 that will not allow certain cells to grow...
19:38 Or maybe they act as a restrictor of the blood supply.
19:45 Every tumor, every cancer has to produce its own blood supply,
19:49 has to grow it's own blood supply.
19:51 And some of these "phytochemicals"
19:54 will cause an inhibition or a closing down of the specific
19:59 blood vessels that supply the cancer...
20:03 and when there is an attempt to increase the growth of
20:09 blood vessels by the cancer, there is an inhibition of this
20:14 so-called "angiogenesis"
20:16 or the building of blood cells.
20:18 Yes, in fact we have recommended and worked with people using
20:26 a substance that has been extracted from
20:29 what's called "bindweed. "
20:30 Oh yes, bindweed.
20:31 I think there is a fair bit of that around
20:33 and it does the very thing that you describe.
20:36 It inhibits that growth of blood vessels that are required
20:39 by a tumor or a cancer so that the cells will stay alive.
20:43 Do you know if they have discovered what it is
20:46 in bindweed... what that phytochemical name is?
20:49 No, I don't recall the name.
20:51 I don't know that either but the term "bindweed"
20:54 is sort of catchy, you know,
20:57 and so I remember that one very well.
21:00 I thought, just one little point there...
21:02 People think of cancer as... of course, it is a terrible thing
21:08 but they think of it as a monster that there is no
21:11 release from and as those cancer cells are as though they're
21:16 But the facts are, that actually cancer cells are weaker
21:19 than our normal cells... Yes
21:22 When a fever is undergone,
21:26 if there's something that puts a stress on cells, often it's
21:29 the cancer cells will die first rather than our own good cells.
21:34 If a person fasts, the cancer cells will suffer first
21:38 before our own...
21:39 So, are you thinking then of something like fever treatments
21:44 or fever baths?
21:45 Exactly... I think that this has to do with a number of
21:48 natural treatments that are used and it's just simply a
21:52 fact that the cancer cells are more susceptible.
21:55 So if we bring, let's say the mouth temperature
21:59 up and up and up, as far as a patient can comfortably
22:05 or maybe a little uncomfortably tolerate it...
22:08 we should be able to heat the cancer up enough so that its
22:12 cells become much more vulnerable to damage,
22:16 than one's own cells would.
22:18 In fact, one's own cells won't begin to get damage until
22:22 we're above 110...
22:24 and so we could bring maybe a person's mouth temperature
22:29 up to 103 or 104 degrees and expect that maybe the internal
22:35 temperature might be 105 degrees...
22:37 And, at least in the laboratory, it has been shown that cancer
22:42 cells taken up that high, even above 103, often will die
22:47 and will almost always, that cell will be unlikely to
22:53 reproduce itself.
22:54 And then, of course, the other big factor we are doing
22:57 when we raise that temperature is we're adding a tremendous
22:59 stimulus to the immune system... Yes..
23:01 ...which can then attack too
23:03 We are not defenseless against cancer... That's right.
23:06 The Lord has given us such cells as the natural killer cells.
23:11 And, these cells are quite capable of seeking out and
23:17 attacking the cancer cells.
23:21 Now in a certain class of foods,
23:24 the so-called cruciferous foods, the cabbage and bok choy
23:32 and radishes and turnip greens and broccoli and brussel sprouts
23:36 LARGE FAMILY!
23:37 There are some cancer inhibiting or cancer destroying properties
23:46 sulforaphanes and all that indole group,
23:51 the indole carbinols and the like.
23:53 All of these can have a benefit in cancer.
23:58 Do you have any special word on that?
23:59 Don't ask me for many names but there is one that has
24:04 stuck in my mind from soy... Ah ha
24:08 And this one is "genistein"... Yes
24:12 I believe there's another called "daidzein"
24:15 And these I don't believe are so linked to steroid activity
24:23 but instead they're strong antioxidants that will also help
24:27 fight cancer.
24:29 Now an interesting thing about the soy protein
24:32 is that soy protein has fairly recently been shown
24:38 to be protective to the kidney.
24:40 And so individuals with kidney problems
24:44 and sometimes people with cancer and other diseases
24:49 also have kidney problems like with diabetes, they
24:53 may have kidney problems, and the soy protein has been shown
24:55 to be actually protective for them.
24:59 That was very interesting to me
25:02 to see that there is this effect of soy protein...
25:06 because when you have kidney failure,
25:08 the standard rule has been way down on protein...
25:12 You know, barely enough to sustain life... Yes
25:16 But here, they've done experiments and shown that
25:18 the function of the kidney actually improves with the use
25:22 of soy protein.
25:23 Yes, so a vegetarian diet can indeed be used then
25:27 for a kidney problem... Definitely.
25:28 I wonder if it's the protein, or if there is another of these
25:33 amazing little phytochemicals that God puts in foods...
25:37 In any case, it works with the soy.
25:39 Yes it does. It works.
25:41 And that's, of course, the thing that is most helpful.
25:45 Now, there's another food that many of us like a lot...
25:51 And, what do you know about the phytochemicals in garlic?
25:55 You know, there's a host of them in garlic too
25:58 Now again, how many names are there?
26:01 You know, there's a whole list and every week some new ones
26:04 coming out and a lot of them with LONG names...
26:08 And I don't have many names at all.
26:10 I remember "allicin" is one of them. Yes, allicin.
26:13 And there's another one that is of interest to me...
26:17 It's called "ajoene" that's in garlic... Yes
26:20 And I believe that is the main anticoagulant
26:23 component of garlic.
26:24 And, when we speak of garlic, we're not talking about just one
26:28 There are a number of medicinal properties of garlic.
26:32 I think a lot of people have heard about it
26:35 fighting infection.
26:36 It's an antibiotic in its nature but it actually helps.
26:40 They've shown that in animals that have cancers,
26:43 garlic will somehow promote the immune system,
26:48 or will somehow work in there and I don't think
26:50 it's completely understood how... that's right...
26:52 that it will fight the cancer.
26:54 And there are several other effects of garlic.
26:56 All of them probably mediated by these phytochemicals
27:00 You can see very easily why the ancients considered it
27:04 to be the food of the gods.
27:06 They also called it the "stinking rose," and it does
27:10 have some stinking properties especially on the breath.
27:14 But nowadays, you can get some of the properties in the
27:17 deodorized forms of garlic which are quite common today.
27:22 If we did like the East Europeans,
27:25 everyone eats garlic and no one worries about a garlic smell...
27:28 In fact, if you don't have garlic on your breath,
27:30 you are considered to be a little bit gauche, maybe...
27:34 ...not in with the in crowd.
27:37 So, as we think about these wonderful things,
27:39 I'm just sorry out time has run out to talk about
27:42 all of these wonderful things that God has produced
27:46 and has put in the foods to make it so that we can
27:49 be healthy and happy
27:51 and of a good frame of mind.