Participants: Paul & Carolyn Rayne (Host), Hannah & Caleb Rayne
Series Code: HTH
Program Code: HTH00016A
00:01 Every parent knows that giving correction is a part
00:04 of the job, but our children need to see Christ in us
00:07 when we have to correct them.
00:09 Join us for another Happy the Home on today's
00:11 program entitled, "A Friend Loveth at all times."
00:37 Welcome to the 16th program in the Happy the Home series.
00:42 It's entitled "A Friend Loves at All Times",
00:45 and its Carolyn and Paul with you today.
00:49 We look forward to sharing with you.
00:51 You know, Carolyn, let me ask you a question
00:53 right up front. Do you think that role models,
00:57 when we're growing up, do you think good role models
01:00 are a help to us when it comes to our parenting?
01:02 Do you understand the question? Oh, definitely.
01:04 And I think they are. I don't think they have to be.
01:07 They are not essential. We could live without them
01:09 but they certainly help.
01:10 And you know as a girl growing up,
01:12 we were a very close family, and my observations
01:15 have been over the years that girls and their fathers
01:18 tend to have a particularly special relationship and that
01:21 was the way with my father. He was really my best friend.
01:24 Like I could tell him pretty much anything and so, you know,
01:26 as I grow up and got into those years where I was looking
01:30 for my husband who I would like to marry.
01:33 I was looking for somebody, kind of with the same
01:35 character quality as my father and I found him.
01:39 Thank you. I mean your dad and I really did get on.
01:41 You know in my upbringing as you know,
01:43 our viewers don't know, I was not raised as a Christian.
01:48 We went to church very infrequently,
01:52 really only when people were either hatched, matched,
01:55 or dis-batched. I'll let you figure that out.
01:57 But that's when I went to church.
01:59 But you know what held our family together was,
02:02 we did lots of things together, and we, my parents
02:07 would get upset with us sometimes and we were,
02:10 my brother, I, and my own sister were pretty rambunctious
02:12 I think. But you know, they at least spent quality time
02:15 with us and I'm very thankful for that.
02:17 But you know we have another role model, don't we?
02:21 We do. Our Father in heaven you know he parents us
02:24 and as we read through the Bible, in many ways in
02:27 which He parents us. So, He is our Father.
02:29 If you don't have a father-figured role model,
02:31 you have your Father in heaven. So viewers what we want to
02:35 do in this program, we got a couple of things that we want
02:37 to cover. It's entitled, "A Friend Loveth at all times"
02:41 and we are going to take a little bit of twist near the
02:44 end of the program, not so much of a twist,
02:47 but we're gonna talk about discipline,
02:50 and how to correct our children and then how not to
02:55 correct our children. But before we got into that,
02:57 we want to talk a little bit about what does God mean
03:02 to you? What is it about God that has drawn you to Him,
03:08 enough that you want to tune in and watch your Christian
03:11 television station? So, I've got a question for you and
03:15 I want you to ponder it, ponder in your mind and if
03:18 you've got a pen and pencil write it down.
03:20 Or this would be a good time to remind you of
03:23 The Connected Family, the companion book that goes
03:28 with this series. We are on chapter 16,
03:31 because this is program 16 and there actually we give
03:35 you an opportunity in the book, there we ask this same
03:37 question and we give you an opportunity to journal,
03:40 to write down your thoughts. Because then there is a
03:44 follow up part to this question, but let's talk about the
03:46 question first though. I'm gonna read it.
03:48 I want to get it just right. It says question number one,
03:53 what do you appreciate about God?
03:56 What draws you to Him? Let me say it again because
04:00 I want you to write it down. What do you appreciate
04:04 about God? What draws you to Him?
04:07 How would you answer that question, Carolyn?
04:09 Oh, without a doubt, that He is patient with me,
04:13 that He puts up with me and that He doesn't get irritated
04:16 with me because I don't do what I should as quickly as
04:19 I should do it. He is patient. Okay.
04:22 For me, I know one of the big things is,
04:25 I'm just trying to make sure that I say the right thing
04:27 at the right time. But I know for,
04:33 I like that I can talk to God anytime.
04:37 And when I talk to Him, He doesn't get bored of me.
04:41 He doesn't throw me out when I, you know, rehearsal
04:45 my woes and dismays with Him.
04:48 I like God because He listens to me.
04:51 Now there is a reason why we're sharing this with you
04:53 because we want to, we're gonna go on to another
04:56 question that builds on this. So it's important that you
04:59 answer these questions, if not on paper in the
05:04 Connected Family book, at least in your minds as you
05:06 watch this program. What'd be another thing that
05:08 draws you to God, Carolyn? That God understands me.
05:12 I can tell Him all kinds of stuff and He figures it all out,
05:16 and understands my heart even if I can't say in a way
05:19 that would be understandable. And maybe you like that
05:22 about God because sometimes you try to tell me all that
05:24 stuff and I am not quite as understanding, am I?
05:27 I mean that's for you. What you earn about?
05:29 I just don't get it. But I know He does get it.
05:32 He does get it. That's the important thing.
05:34 It doesn't upset Him that I don't say it clearly or
05:37 concisely or whatever. So, it upsets me.
05:39 Well maybe sometimes. Just being honest with you,
05:43 you know we are real people. We are not just on your TV.
05:47 We have a real life to live. Another thing that I like about
05:51 God is that when He has to correct me,
05:56 when He has to discipline me, when He has to say Paul
06:00 you're not going in the right direction,
06:01 somehow He does it in a way that I know He still there
06:07 with me. He still loves me. He has not fallen out with me.
06:12 That's important to me. So let me, let me move now
06:18 into the second question we want to ask you.
06:21 Is there anything you want to say first? No.
06:23 The second questions goes, it builds on the first question.
06:26 First question was what draws you to God,
06:28 what do you appreciate about Him.
06:30 The next question is how can I as a parent be to my children
06:37 what God is to me? So, if you said God was patient with you,
06:43 how can you be patient with your children?
06:46 So, Carolyn just, how have you tried to live out some of
06:51 these characteristics of God in the parenting of your,
06:55 two little rascals, Hannah and Caleb.
06:56 Well I probably like that God's patient with me because
06:59 I'm not naturally a patient person.
07:01 At least I thought I was. You know my previous
07:04 occupation, I was a midwife and nurse and midwife and
07:06 it was easy with my patience. Now I'm a parent and
07:10 it seems to be the hardest thing to be patient with
07:13 my own children. And so I've learnt the hard way through
07:17 hard experiences that prayer is absolutely essential
07:22 to be patient with my children. And then, you know
07:25 sometimes it seems like you've ask for the hundred times
07:28 and they don't seem to be to get it.
07:29 So, now a justifiable can be impatient.
07:32 But God is patient with us the hundreds time and
07:35 beyond and it's learning that I can be that way,
07:38 by faith in Him, connecting to His power in prayer
07:42 is essential and I found not be an essential ingredient.
07:45 So, for me what I find is if I can combine love for my
07:54 children with firmness which is what God,
07:57 I remember many, many years ago,
07:59 and we weren't planning to talk about this,
08:02 but I remember years ago that we'd been invited,
08:05 we've born and raised in the United Kingdom.
08:07 We'd been invited to the U.S to pick-up employment
08:11 here and I desperately wanted to do that.
08:14 Remember that? We had only been married
08:16 couple of years ago. Couple of years,
08:17 Your father had just passed away.
08:19 It was hard time for us. And I just, it was in me,
08:23 it was inside of me, I wanted to go and do this job and
08:28 move to America. And I remember praying God,
08:31 God you know its obvious Carolyn doesn't want it.
08:34 Change her heart, change her heart and there's
08:36 still small voice was coming to me.
08:38 Saying Paul, it's not her heart that needs changing.
08:42 It's you. I don't want you to go. And I wanted to go,
08:46 and I wanted to go and God was saying no, no, no
08:49 and I knew God was saying no. But I was still praying
08:52 that God change her heart. I wasn't saying change
08:55 my heart and you know God held the lines really firm.
08:59 And it was, it was very clear to me that He loved me,
09:03 but He was not gonna give me what I wanted and...
09:06 And ten years later He did changed my heart.
09:09 He changed your heart, He changed my heart and
09:10 we ended coming anyway for something completely different.
09:13 But you know, God combines love and firmness and
09:17 I learned love and firmness from a school teacher.
09:21 I didn't recognize it all. But I remember when I was 11.
09:25 I was just a little bit younger than Caleb.
09:28 And no, I was ten sorry, beg you pardon.
09:31 I was ten and I lived, my parents lived opposite the
09:36 school that I went to. It's just across the fence.
09:39 And I heard Mrs. Hall and she was out there on the
09:44 Ball Field with the kids and she could shout,
09:47 it's like you, it made me cringe I thought,
09:50 I hope I've never in Mrs. Hall class.
09:53 Did your parents ever shout? Yeah, they shouted.
09:56 But not like Mrs. Hall I mean. My parents never didn't
09:59 so that will be so sad to me. Oh! Yeah, my parent
10:02 shouted at me and they shouted each another.
10:04 And you know praise the Lord, they found the Lord now.
10:06 But you know, Mrs. Hall she frightened the life out of me.
10:10 And I remember we were in the main hall at the beginning
10:14 of the school year and they were reading out the names
10:17 of the students and whose class they were gonna be in.
10:20 I remember it. Paul Rayne here it is.
10:23 This is gonna be my teacher for the next year, Mrs. Hall.
10:27 I thought, oh no. The end of the world has come,
10:30 Mrs. Hall. But you know everybody,
10:33 nobody liked Mrs. Hall, but I was in her class and
10:36 I remember she held me accountable.
10:38 I remember one day, she said Paul Rayne if you don't know
10:41 your six times table you are not playing in the soccer team
10:45 this week. And she got my attention because I love soccer.
10:49 And it's like okay Friday I better know that and
10:52 I still to this day, I mean I'm really not that good at school,
10:55 but I know the six times table inside out,
10:58 backwards and forwards as I have to teach my children
11:01 math that has been one thing that,
11:03 well I know the other times table as well.
11:06 But this been the one that's just I don't have to think
11:08 about it it's there. You know, Mrs. Hall was kind
11:11 enough to hold us accountable but she loved us.
11:15 She had a gentle part to her nature but she was firm and
11:19 that's, I guess that's why I like that about God and that's
11:22 why I like to try and be that to my children.
11:26 You know, we wanna spend the rest of our time as we said
11:29 we were talking a little bit about discipline.
11:33 Oh, before we go on to discipline. I want to talk about
11:36 Malachi Chapter 4 and verse 6. We miss that little bit
11:40 out you know. It says that, if you were in earlier program
11:43 we covered this before, but this is so fundamental to
11:47 good parenting and we can't cover it enough times.
11:50 Malachi the last book of the Old Testament, chapter 4,
11:54 the last chapter verse 6. This is the last verse of the
11:58 Old Testament I think. It says Malachi Chapter 4
12:01 and verse 6: He, talking about God will turn
12:04 the hearts of the parents to their children,
12:08 and the hearts of the children to their parents.
12:11 And what I like about that verse is the order of reference,
12:15 as God turns our heart towards Him and then towards
12:20 our children. God will perform the miracle of turning the
12:24 children's hearts towards us. But parents,
12:28 if we are thinking that the kids of God will love us and
12:31 love God and we are not in love with God and not in love
12:35 with our children, we are hoping for the prophecy here
12:38 to be fulfilled backwards. It's us. The works starts in
12:43 parents first and then it starts to roll out in children.
12:46 And that couldn't be more true in the realm of discipline.
12:51 Because, well let's go through we are actually in the
12:54 Connected Family Book. We have this listed out and
12:57 we're gonna go through them on this program. We've got
13:01 seven basic guidelines for Effective Discipline.
13:05 So, Carolyn, why don't you kick us off with number one?
13:09 Probably this is one of the hardest stay calm don't get
13:14 irritated or angry, that's hard isn't it?
13:16 Because you know we don't like to tell our children off
13:19 correct them, discipline them and whatever and so we
13:21 don't tend to do until we're pushed the limit.
13:24 And so, the frustration starts building when we've asks
13:27 them to do some of they're not doing it.
13:28 We ask them again and they're not doing it.
13:30 And we ask them again and finally we just kind of flip
13:32 the lid and blast on them and we're angry,
13:35 we irritated and all the rest of it and that isn't the way.
13:39 So, how we're gonna avoid that.
13:41 Well if we can catch the situation early enough that
13:45 our children have been asked one time and then we
13:49 deal with the situation rather than the tenth time when
13:51 we're just about at the end of our rope so to speak.
13:55 We would avoid a lot of that and when I chose that,
13:58 when I connect with the Lord, sufficiently to chose that
14:00 I avoid all those other things as when I don't chose that
14:04 and I find myself again and again and again and boom,
14:09 the fuse blows. That's real practical stuff.
14:11 Number two is, preserve our children's dignity.
14:17 In another words if they need correcting in a,
14:20 in front their brothers and sisters or in front of their
14:23 friends, don't rail on them right in front of all their
14:28 friends or their siblings. Because immediately these
14:31 two battles going on, they've not only got the
14:33 battle of what you're saying, but they've got the
14:36 battle of what of all these other people saying.
14:38 I remember going back to my soccer days,
14:40 I remember, in fact one of the earlier programs
14:44 I ended up in pretty emotional. Because I was talking
14:48 about that soccer game, if you remember where I scored
14:52 a goal actually. Your name was in lights.
14:53 The name was in lights. We did win that game if
14:55 you watch that earlier program,
14:56 but you know as we were training for that final,
15:01 there was one particular training session.
15:02 I don't know what was on my mind,
15:04 but I was just checked out and I remember on the
15:08 way home. My dad use to come and pick us up and
15:10 he used to obviously take us home,
15:12 but that particular night my friend Derrick was in the car
15:15 with us. And we were gonna drop Derrick off his house
15:18 and then we'll go in. And my dad laid into me.
15:21 He says Paul you were checked out and you were,
15:25 you know and my dad even say to my friend.
15:27 You know, do you agree with me,
15:29 and then my friend started saying yeah.
15:31 I mean it's like and I here I am, I'm 45 years of age.
15:35 That happened when I was 11 let's say.
15:39 I mean that is a long time. I can remember it to this day.
15:42 I felt humiliated. I felt resentful to my friend and
15:47 resentful to my dad, I mean, yeah what you're saying
15:49 it's true. But why you have to bring it up in front
15:53 of him? Why do you have to rail on me now?
15:55 And I know my dad wasn't meaning.
15:57 He was just looking for support.
15:58 He didn't have a bad heart in it.
16:00 He was hoping you be motivated I'd imagine.
16:02 Yeah, but humiliating our children into better behavior
16:07 is not a good motivation. We lose the battle,
16:10 not gain the battle. Right, now you know,
16:13 as we travel a lot giving seminars and our children are
16:16 with us we have to privilege that we travel as a family.
16:19 We minister as a family. And sometimes Paul and I
16:21 are in the pulpit together and our children are sitting
16:23 on the front row. That way we can see them.
16:25 We can have nonverbal communication and we're
16:28 parenting the whole time through the seminars,
16:31 eye contact. You know, sometimes we'll see them
16:34 just kind of messing around. I mean it doesn't happen
16:36 much these days, but it used to, a little bit.
16:38 And so we would be trying to communicate eye contact.
16:41 I can still remember and we try to avoid blasting on our
16:45 children from the pulpit that would be the humiliating
16:47 thing you're talking about. Right. I could remember
16:49 we were at church meetings and we were talking about a,
16:52 we were giving a marriage seminar,
16:54 and I've noticed that my children weren't
16:57 paying attention... Well, a marriage seminar really
16:59 is not very interesting to a child. I guess.
17:01 And so it was just two of us to get away backwards
17:03 and forward. And I observed that my children weren't
17:06 paying attention. There were just kind of getting
17:08 into messing around. This is just to say several years ago.
17:11 And so I was try to do the nonverbal like you know,
17:15 with my eyes, and I couldn't tell whether they were
17:19 choosing not to get it or they were just playing didn't
17:21 get it. So that really bothered me.
17:23 It's like, if they're choosing not to understand me than
17:26 we got a heart problem now. So, I'm totally zoned in on
17:29 that situation and Paul turns to me. He says so
17:32 what you think, sweetie? I think, think about what.
17:38 And I actually got off the pulpit. I said I'm sorry,
17:41 but I've got to take care something and I went down
17:43 to the children and I said children please you know
17:47 what you should be doing upfront here.
17:48 Other eyes are looking at you not us and anyway
17:51 it was dealt. We didn't humiliate them in the pulpit,
17:54 but you know. We've had to do that on occasions.
17:56 We've had to, and in fact people have said to us that
18:00 is even more powerful than what we're saying is when
18:02 they see us taking care of things with our children.
18:05 But we're trying to do that in a way that is not humiliated.
18:08 We try to do it in a friendly way.
18:09 Yeah. So, number one was stay calm parents,
18:13 that's gonna take every bit of a connection you've got
18:15 with God. Number two was, preserve our children's dignity.
18:20 When you come to correct them which will surely happen,
18:22 it's better to take them somewhere.
18:24 If you are in a public setting take them off to different
18:28 room or the bathroom or somewhere don't do it right out
18:31 in front of everybody. What's the number three,
18:32 Carolyn? Number three is asks questions.
18:35 You know so often we think we know,
18:37 and for the most part we do. You know, you can walk in
18:39 to the room and there is a mess and you know who is
18:41 the culprit, right off? And probably nine times out
18:45 of ten you're right, but there's that one time when you go,
18:49 you know I go and lay into Caleb. Caleb, son,
18:51 why did you do this... and all the rest of it?
18:55 It was nothing to do with Caleb. It's like, oh.
18:58 Well, I've been there that's happen to me and you know
19:01 it's good for us to learn the lesson ask a few pointed
19:04 questions so that you can get down to the nitty-gritty
19:07 of what's happened before you have to go tackle it.
19:10 And also asking questions, sometimes the mischief
19:13 happens when we're not in the room.
19:15 And so you come in and you haven't got a clue what
19:17 happened, ask some questions don't say anything
19:21 about point. You've got to process the answers and
19:24 then you can comeback to it. But don't jump in with
19:27 both feet. I remember saying to Caleb one time,
19:29 Caleb, I'm just being honest with you.
19:32 Caleb what are you doing riding your sisters bike?
19:35 You know you shouldn't. It's my bike, daddy.
19:40 Oh, sorry. All right, better ask some questions.
19:44 Is that your bike, Caleb? Yes my bike.
19:47 Okay daddy stay quite. Don't put your foot in it.
19:49 So, number four keep the correction brief and
19:54 to the point. You know one thing our children don't need,
19:59 the point they've done something wrong is a great
20:01 long lecture that takes 15 minutes, because then they
20:05 start to.... and then you've lost them.
20:11 And you are there in all your earnestness trying to
20:14 develop it, trying to make it sinking, and the more you
20:17 try to make it sinking, the more tuned out they are
20:20 until it's like, oh mommy, oh daddy,
20:23 when will you be quiet. Not that they would say that
20:25 or maybe they would, but keep it short and to the point.
20:29 And the important part we do, the next point number five
20:33 what have you got down for number five, Carolyn?
20:35 Prayer, very, very important. We need to be praying
20:39 ourselves and we need to be praying with our children
20:42 and teach them how to pray in a situation.
20:44 So, if I'm inflammatory situation where I'm likely
20:48 to kind of lose it. The best thing for me to do is to say
20:51 children you need to be praying right now,
20:53 whilst I go away and pray. Let the situation defuse.
20:57 Now if your children are really little and they haven't
20:59 yet learned how to do that then that's exactly what we
21:02 do with our children. We would sit down when they
21:04 were really small and we put their hands together
21:06 and we would pray and have them repeat the prayer
21:08 after us, dear Jesus please forgive me for you know
21:13 saying bad things or whatever was they did.
21:15 Please, give me a new heart. Please give me a new
21:17 heart and they would, they would pray those very
21:19 words when they were very small as they go older
21:22 and they could pray we would say,
21:24 you know Caleb and Hannah, you need to go away and
21:26 pray about and we would tell them what it was.
21:28 Now at the ages that they are, we will say you know
21:31 what Hannah you need to go and pray.
21:34 And not tell them what the problem is.
21:37 It happened this morning. No it was yesterday morning.
21:41 Yesterday morning. Yesterday, it happened yesterday
21:43 we had to ask Hannah to go to her room and pray.
21:46 We didn't tell her what for. She knew.
21:48 She, but the Holy Spirit is communicating with the hearts
21:51 of our children. She came back and she said I'm really
21:53 sorry for and she expressed what that was.
21:56 But this point number five is not so much.
21:58 It is that the children need to pray, but it's that we
22:00 as parents need to pray, because until we are connected
22:03 with God whatever we do in form of punishment or
22:08 consequence which is the next thing we're gonna
22:10 talk about. We are not gonna hit the mark if we are
22:13 all agitated, how come, if the devil is working through
22:16 us and we go all mad and we're gonna you know give
22:19 our children some kind of correction how is the devil
22:23 gonna get rid of the devil, is not.
22:25 So, we need to be in Christ. We need to be calm.
22:28 That takes us right back to number one.
22:30 The last point, number six is, I'll read it for you here.
22:33 I'm reading straight out of the Connected Family Book,
22:36 give consequences for wrong behavior.
22:40 So, that means we spank with daylights out of them. No.
22:44 But the... you know they are natural consequences,
22:48 in the parenting world, in the adult world.
22:51 If I'm driving too fast and I get caught by the policeman,
22:57 he's gonna give me a ticket. And this actually happened.
23:00 We were doing a good deed for some friends if you
23:02 remember. I suppose I can go public on this.
23:05 Sometimes we forget that we're actually on television here.
23:07 But we'd help somebody move a piano and then we ran
23:10 to a store and we got a bit behind the rest of the party.
23:13 They needed us to help get the piano out of the truck
23:15 at the other end. So we would drive in a bit
23:17 faster to catch up. We're going through the high
23:19 street of our local town where we go to church,
23:22 where it's a 25 mile an hour limit and we were doing 37.
23:26 So, the officer told me and we sat there,
23:29 and you know he pulled us over and you know he says
23:32 give us your license and your insurance and all of that and
23:34 so I gave it to him. And Caleb or Hannah in the backseat,
23:38 they said what's going on daddy and I say daddy is getting
23:41 a consequence for driving too fast.
23:44 In fact if you remember one of them said,
23:45 drive away daddy, drive away.
23:48 Well, he's not here now, drive away.
23:49 Yes drive away, I said children that will,
23:52 end up in jail, only make it worse believe me.
23:55 So, that our children saw daddy get in the consequence
23:59 if you drive too fast you get a consequence in real life
24:02 adults. So, that can translate into our parenting.
24:06 Well, some simple ones you know and we're not about
24:08 to get into the best way to spank your children and all
24:11 of that kind of stuff, that's not what we're gonna
24:12 talk about. But some simple things would be.
24:15 You know if a child takes too long to do something,
24:18 and you have a schedule and we're gonna be talking about
24:20 that in future program, if they take too long to do
24:23 something they miss out and what was gonna be
24:25 happening thereafter. And not show consequence for
24:29 dulling and laziness or if a child cannot control their
24:32 mouth and they're constantly mouthing off in ways
24:35 they shouldn't, we ask our children to be silent for
24:38 a while. What would you mean by a while, a day,
24:40 a week or half an hour or what?
24:42 I mean, we don't want people....
24:44 No, a number of minutes, okay, depending on how much.
24:48 Right, and sometimes we've had Caleb be quite as
24:50 a half an hour. Yeah. So, those are just some of
24:54 the guidelines. Number seven the last one is
24:57 in all of these we have got to show that we
25:01 love our children. If we come across as bugged and
25:05 irritated and I don't like you right now,
25:08 then it's not gonna produce the repentance,
25:11 the change of heart that we need to see in our children.
25:14 So, I know we have gone through those kind of quick.
25:16 We will go through them in a couple of programs time
25:19 when we do the review. But we encourage you get hold
25:21 of that Connected Family and you can go through those
25:24 one by one and think about that.
25:26 We're gonna take a break now and we'll be right
25:29 with you for the challenge for today's program, join us.