Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Tom Shepherd
Series Code: HPOV
Program Code: HPOV000039A
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00:15 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and this is Dr. Tom Sheperd
00:19 from Andrews University Seminary where he is the Professor of... 00:23 well, this is a long title, 00:25 Professor of New Testament Interpretation 00:28 and also the Director for the Doctoral Programs 00:30 in the Ph. D. in Religion and Th. D. which is in Theology, 00:37 okay, Doctor of Theology, and the series' title is: 00:41 Love, Marriage, Sex and Divorce according to the New Testament. 00:45 We have just been learning so much 00:47 and we appreciate Dr. Sheperd coming here because 00:51 Tom, we're learning as we go and this is... 00:54 I'd love to go to Seminary, 00:56 this is just such a fascinating thing 00:58 to sit here as your student. 01:00 Today we're going to be talking about three revelations 01:04 that set the pattern for our world's history, 01:07 Creation, Wrath and Righteousness, 01:09 specifically, 01:11 but we are going to be looking at Romans 01:13 chapter 1... is going to be... 01:15 grab your Bible because you'll want to follow along 01:19 and this is a topic that we're going to approach 01:22 if you will, and Paul speaks about 01:27 homosexuality in this... this is a very hot topic. 01:33 It is. 01:34 Homosexuality and same-sex marriage 01:37 are very hot topics today, 01:39 so, what does the New Testament have to say about this? 01:42 Well, there are several passages in the New Testament 01:45 that actually address this subject of homosexual practice 01:48 and as you said, it's a very hot topic 01:52 it's a topic where there is a lot of misunderstanding 01:55 and so we have to address it carefully, respectfully, 01:59 we recognize that all people 02:02 no matter who they are, what they do or have done, 02:06 they're all made in God's image 02:08 and we know that God loves all people, 02:10 the Bible does speak specifically about this question 02:15 and we want to look at it, the passage in the New Testament 02:19 that everyone turns to 02:21 when it comes to the subject of same-sex marriage 02:25 or same-sex relations, is Romans chapter 1, 02:27 there are some other passages as well, 02:30 several others, maybe, 02:32 but this is the most important one 02:33 that everybody takes a look at, 02:35 so, the passage, unfortunately, is often misunderstood, 02:40 misinterpreted, looked at in different ways 02:45 and has created a lot of dispute and debate, 02:49 so, I want to walk through this a bit slowly, 02:53 and place the discussion of homosexuality 02:57 that is there in Romans chapter 1 03:00 within its wider context 03:02 because if we just go and focus in on just those verses, 03:06 it's possible to misunderstand what Paul is saying, 03:09 okay? Okay. 03:11 So what we want to do is turn to Romans chapter 1 03:16 and we want to read verses, Romans 1 verses 16 to 23, 03:20 now you'll notice that in the verses 03:24 that I'm just mentioning here, 03:25 he doesn't even mention same-sex relations at all, 03:29 that's later, 03:30 first we wanted to understand well... 03:32 the context in which he is talking, 03:34 okay, so, Romans chapter 1 verses 16 through 23, 03:40 Romans chapter 1 and verse 16, 03:43 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, 03:46 for it is the power of God to salvation 03:48 for everyone who believes, 03:50 for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 03:53 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed 03:56 from faith to faith; as it is written, 03:59 'The just shall live by faith. ' 04:01 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven 04:04 against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, 04:08 who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 04:12 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, 04:16 for God has shown it to them. 04:18 For since the creation of the world 04:21 His invisible attributes are clearly seen, 04:25 being understood by the things that are made, 04:28 even His eternal power and Godhead, 04:31 so that they are without excuse, 04:34 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, 04:39 nor were thankful, 04:40 but became futile in their thoughts, 04:43 and their foolish hearts were darkened. 04:46 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 04:49 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God 04:53 into an image made like corruptible men... 04:56 and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. " 05:01 Okay, so that's where we first go to... is these verses 05:05 now, let's get the wider, even bigger context of Romans 05:10 the book of Romans is about the gospel 05:13 that's why Paul starts off 05:15 and says that he's not ashamed of the gospel 05:16 it's kind of a thesis statement for the entire book, 05:19 Romans chapter 1 to 8, 05:21 Paul argues over the subject of salvation, 05:24 chapters 9 to 11, he will talk about Israel, 05:27 how does Israel relate to the gospel, 05:30 then when he gets to chapter 12 through 15, 05:33 he talks about practical applications of the gospel... 05:37 ethics for the Christian, 05:38 chapter 16 is kind of a close off of wrapping up 05:44 and greet all the people there in Rome. 05:45 Paul had never been to Rome when he wrote this book 05:48 but he's writing to a church because, actually, 05:51 he's planning to go as a missionary to Spain 05:54 and he's kind of like a... one of these itinerant, 05:59 you know, musicians who go, 06:01 so now... they'll give a concert in the church, 06:03 and when they give a concert in the church, 06:05 what do they do at the end of the concert? 06:08 They take up a little offering. 06:09 They take up an offering, right, so, Paul is actually... 06:12 wants their support, 06:14 and he introduces that very, very, carefully 06:17 in the beginning of the chapter, 06:19 of chapter 1 and then he comes back to it... 06:22 back in chapter 15 after he has shared this 06:25 wonderful gospel that has become... 06:26 this book has been the impetus of Revivals 06:32 throughout Christian history, 06:34 Luther was converted and changed through this book, 06:41 John Wesley was, other people, you know, 06:43 they have this wonderful experience from this book 06:47 so this is a fantastic book. 06:48 If you had nothing but the book of Romans, 06:50 you would understand God's plan of salvation. 06:52 Yeah, it's really, really beautiful, 06:54 now, he sets up his argument, it's in Romans chapter 3 06:58 that he's going to come in verses 21 to 26 07:00 to the amazing expression of 07:03 these five little power-packed verses 07:06 that explain the gospel really, very briefly, 07:09 but he has to get people ready for that 07:11 and he gets them ready by... 07:14 Romans 1, 2 and the first part of 3, 07:16 illustrating that the entire world is lost under sin. 07:21 Everybody needs help, I don't care who you are... 07:25 everybody needs help, 07:27 everybody is lost, it's only God who can save us 07:31 so he has to explain that to people 07:33 because... well some people, maybe, just didn't get it, 07:36 our world is a world of sin 07:41 and so we have hard time understanding "sin. " 07:43 When you only live in one culture, 07:45 and you've never visited another culture, 07:47 you don't understand your own culture too well 07:49 if you're a fish in water, 07:52 you don't know what "water" is 07:54 until they take you out of the water, 07:55 then you know what water is and you want it again. 07:58 Yeah... 08:00 So, because we live in a world of sin, 08:01 we sinners don't tend to understand how terrible it is. 08:05 That's good. 08:06 See, we don't quite get that so, chapters 1 to 3, 08:09 in chapter 1, Paul especially talks about the 08:13 Gentiles and what's wrong with them 08:15 and how they are lost and in great trouble. 08:19 In chapter 2, he will talk to the Jews. 08:23 so, Gentiles and Jews that's a common way of dividing 08:26 the world among Israelite religious thinkers, 08:30 it's Israel and the world... the Gentiles 08:33 and so he says the Gentiles 08:35 are going to destruction. 08:37 Well, everybody knew that, then in chapter 2, 08:40 he describes how the Jews also have problems. 08:43 So, he eventually comes in chapter 3, 08:45 quoting a long series of Scriptures, 08:47 you know, how, "wealth is an open grave," 08:50 you know, "the poison of asps is on their tongue" 08:54 and then they are... 08:56 "no man is righteous, no not one" 08:58 so everybody is lost and you look like, 08:59 like... "Well, then we're all just going to die. " 09:01 and then he says, 09:03 "but now, the righteousness of God is revealed, 09:06 apart from the law but justified too... " 09:09 and then he describes how salvation is through 09:11 faith in Christ. Shelley: Amen 09:13 So it's really beautiful but this section 09:16 is the set up for that, 09:17 and there's... there's a very interesting 09:20 characteristic that takes place in these first... 09:24 like four verses of the chapter that we've been reading, 09:28 in chapter 1:16 through 19, if you start with verse 16, 09:33 a verse that everyone loves, 09:35 "For I'm not ashamed of the gospel: 09:36 for it is the power of God for salvation 09:38 to everyone who believes; 09:39 to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. " 09:41 Then he begins a series of three... "for statements," 09:47 okay, "for this... for this... for this... " 09:50 okay, so in verse 17, 09:52 "For in it, the righteousness of God is... " what? 09:55 what does your Bible say? Shelley: Revealed... 09:58 "... is revealed from faith to faith:" 10:00 okay, so in the gospel, there is a revelation, 10:04 a revelation, now, we could say there are... 10:07 there are many ways or several different ways 10:11 for us to know things right, 10:14 scientists will study some kind of plant, you know, 10:21 and they'll test and do different tests on it... 10:23 on an animal or something, 10:25 we call it an inductive method of study, 10:27 they do an experiment, they see what happens, 10:29 they do another experiment they see what happens, 10:30 again... they keep going... they build up to... eventually, 10:33 what they call, "Law," you know, 10:35 like the Law of Gravity, 10:36 if you let something go, it will drop, 10:38 and you let... you know... all that... 10:39 to see what it is... it just happens, 10:40 all right, so, they start inductively with experiments 10:44 and they come up to some kind of knowledge, 10:47 some kind of Law, now, 10:48 there's another way of learning 10:50 or knowing things and that's by deduction, 10:52 so instead of inductive, "from below," 10:54 you go from above, 10:55 this is what happens in Geometry, 10:57 where you have these two parallel lines and you say, 11:01 we make this so we get a theorem, 11:03 now you use that and you build another theorem 11:05 you know, and you make these deductions 11:07 so you come from above, 11:09 and you come down to particular understandings, 11:12 I suggested that there's a third way of knowing 11:15 and that's what I would call... not inductive... but conductive. 11:19 Revelation? 11:20 Revelation, exactly, 11:21 if God did not want us to know Him, 11:24 we wouldn't know Him. 11:26 Yvonne: That's true, not by inductive or deductive... 11:29 You cannot by searching... find out God, says Job, 11:33 so, you have to... 11:34 this has to come from God Himself, 11:36 so He conducts it... as... 11:38 He gives the information in Revelation, 11:40 so, here is a truth that we would not know, otherwise, 11:44 but God reveals it and it's in the gospel, 11:46 the revelation of the power of God for salvation 11:50 the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel. 11:54 Read verse 18. 11:55 Verse 18, "For the wrath of God 11:58 is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness 12:02 and unrighteousness of men 12:04 who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. " 12:07 Okay, so, now, here's another revelation, 12:09 notice, "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven. " 12:14 So here, right next to each other, 12:16 you have two very interesting revelations. 12:18 Righteousness of God is revealed 12:19 and the wrath of God is revealed. 12:21 Right, and, we're not done, 12:22 there's a third revelation, that's in verse 19. 12:24 Verse 19 says, 12:27 "Because what may be known of God 12:30 is manifest in them for God has shown it to them," 12:33 so He has revealed, again. 12:35 All right, now where has He revealed this? 12:38 He has revealed this 12:39 in the creation of the world, in nature. 12:42 Okay, so we have three revelations. 12:44 We have the revelation of the righteousness in the gospel, 12:47 righteousness of God. 12:48 We have the revelation of the wrath of God 12:50 against all unrighteousness, 12:52 and we have the revelation of God's power in nature. 12:55 Which came first? 12:57 Power in nature. 12:59 Yes, revelation in creation, that was first. 13:01 Which came second? Yvonne: Wrath. 13:04 Wrath came second because sin came in. 13:07 Yeah, wrath came before He showed righteousness. 13:10 Then comes... the last is righteousness. 13:13 Paul flips them, inverses them, 13:16 and speaks of the last... first... 13:18 he speaks of the righteousness of God, first. 13:20 Why does he do that? 13:22 Because that's the theme of his book. 13:24 But he's going to illustrate how the world needs the gospel 13:31 you see, if we never recognize that we're sinners, 13:35 we have no sense that we need the gospel. 13:39 That's true. 13:40 Jesus said that it's the sick who need the doctor. 13:44 You know, if you're feeling well, 13:46 and everything is going well, 13:48 you know you've just run a marathon 13:50 and you know your cholesterol is low 13:52 and your... everything... you say, 13:53 "I'm feeling so good, I think I'll go see the doctor" 13:55 well, no. 13:57 Even if you've been treated for something previously, 14:02 like I recently was, 14:03 and then you've got a follow-up appointment, 14:05 but for the follow-up appointment, you're thinking, 14:06 "I'm feeling too good to go back to the doctor" 14:08 so you don't go. 14:09 So you go... when you're sick, see... 14:11 so people need to know that they're sick. 14:13 Now, if we look at these two verses, verse 17 and verse 18, 14:17 in some Bibles, verse 18 does not begin with the word, "For. " 14:21 Mine does. 14:22 Mine does as well, it's there in Greek, 14:24 it's kind of unfortunate when they remove that. 14:28 Sometimes they remove that saying... 14:29 "Aww, that's not really important 14:31 for the point that Paul is making," 14:32 I'm sorry, I'm afraid that it is, 14:34 because if you take it and just put it in Greek, 14:37 you see in Greek, they don't have to put the words 14:39 in the same orders as we do 14:41 because they... where they inflected the words 14:44 they could move the words around, 14:46 all right, so, actually the way that 14:48 Paul wrote it, goes like this, 14:50 if we were to literally translate it, 14:52 "Righteousness of God is revealed, 14:55 is revealed the wrath of God. " 14:58 Those are the two verses, okay. 15:00 So it's the chiastic structure... 15:02 It's the chiastic structure, A... B... B... A... 15:04 so, exactly because he put them in that pattern, 15:09 he wants you to focus and usually, 15:11 in a chiastic structure, the center of the chiasm, 15:14 A... B... B... A... the center of the chiasm 15:16 is the important aspect that you want to... 15:18 where he wants to catch your attention, 15:20 and that's the word revealed, there's a revelation 15:24 in fact there are two revelations 15:26 and they stand side by side 15:27 but they're antithetical to each other, 15:29 they're contrast with each other, 15:31 one is saving, and the other is damning, 15:35 one is about salvation... one is about being saved, 15:39 the other is about being lost, okay, 15:41 so these two are put right next to each other, 15:45 all right, it's interesting that most people 15:49 love the idea or are compatible with the idea 15:54 the righteousness of God, they're about His grace, 15:57 but they shy away from the idea of His wrath. 16:01 There are some people who focus on the wrath of God 16:06 rather than the righteousness of God, 16:08 and then there are other people 16:09 who focus on the righteousness of God 16:11 and deny His wrath, that's... either way... 16:14 It's interesting, one time I was asked 16:17 to give a radio program on heaven, and then I was... 16:20 later, I was asked to give a radio program on hell, 16:22 which one do you suppose got more phone calls? 16:25 The one on hell. 16:27 It did... it got more phone calls, 16:28 people tend to misunderstand this idea of the wrath of God. 16:35 Now, the timeline in Romans begins with Creation 16:39 then man rebelled in ungodliness and injustice, 16:43 and that brings the wrath of God. 16:46 So there's a history of revelation 16:49 that is intermingled with the history of sin and salvation. 16:54 So it looks like this, it goes, 16:56 Creation then you have the Fall, 16:58 where Sin enters in rebellion, 17:00 then you have Wrath revealed, 17:02 then you have Humanity going downward, 17:05 and then you have Righteousness revealed. 17:08 Right, so, intermingled with the three revelations, 17:12 is this whole sin problem of the human race. 17:15 How would you describe... 17:17 I have a definition for God's wrath, 17:19 how would you describe it? 17:21 Well, I'd like to hear your definition, what was yours? 17:25 Oh, I think, I'm trying to remember 17:27 how I wrote it in "The Grace Pipeline" 17:29 but that it was His holy reaction to sin. 17:32 It's a good way to put it, I agree, 17:35 I call it His holy anger against sin. 17:38 It's His reaction to the choices of rebellion. 17:41 Now, whereas God's love is eternal, 17:44 it's an eternal quality of His character, 17:48 God's wrath is a reaction to ungodliness 17:51 and therefore, it is temporary. 17:52 That's good. 17:54 When ungodliness is gone, 17:56 the wrath of God will disappear, all right. 17:59 Oh, well we see that over and over in the Old Testament. 18:02 Well, we tend to think of wrath as something ugly, actually, 18:05 something harsh, 18:07 it's an outburst of hateful emotion 18:09 but it's not like that with God, okay, 18:11 since He is the epitome of goodness and love, 18:14 anything ungodly is that which is badness and unloving. 18:17 For God to punish or remove such expressions... 18:21 expressions, no badness or evil on His part 18:25 when He removes that which is evil, 18:26 it's rather like a doctor cutting out a cancer. 18:29 So it's not unloving, it's a loving action. 18:32 Yeah, well, no one cries over the cancer. 18:34 That's true, that's true. 18:36 Now, sometimes I give an illustration of this 18:38 to my students to help them understand 18:40 a little bit about how God's wrath works. 18:43 Just suppose you were walking into a big supermarket one day, 18:46 and as you were walking there and you were getting close, 18:50 you really saw a big six-foot-five 18:53 250 pound guy coming out 18:56 and he's dragging a little girl behind him 18:57 and she's crying 19:00 and he says to her, 19:02 "I told you not to touch that candy" 19:03 and he slaps her across the face, 19:05 you're shocked and you're walking into... 19:09 well... the store, you know, 19:11 and you see this going past you, and you hear, 19:13 "You just wait till we get home" 19:14 and you forgot your cell phone, 19:17 you don't have your cell phone, how do you feel? 19:21 Totally helpless. 19:23 Totally helpless, okay, 19:25 and you're walking around the store 19:29 and you're buying your food, what are you thinking about? 19:32 I'm thinking about that poor little girl. 19:34 You're thinking about that poor little girl 19:35 and do you feel guilty at all? 19:38 Oh yes, I wished I could have intervened to do something. 19:41 Yeah, you wish you'd stepped up to him and said, 19:42 "You leave that little girl alone," right? 19:43 Yes. 19:45 Right, and you feel guilty because you didn't do that 19:48 or you didn't have your cell phone and you say, 19:49 "Why didn't I bring my cell phone, I'll call 911 right now" 19:52 I mean, what he's doing is wrong. 19:55 Now, what you feel is a sense of, 19:58 sometimes you call it, "righteous indignation. " 19:59 Yes. 20:01 Yeah, that is a human feeling or sense of something 20:06 that is like the wrath of God. 20:07 God's wrath is His holy hatred of sin, 20:10 you remove all the human dross, all the... 20:13 and you multiply it a million times 20:14 and you have this holy, bright, strong, hatred of sin 20:18 that just cannot accept 20:22 that sin will destroy the universe. 20:24 So, it's going to step in and do something about it. 20:29 That's the wrath of God. 20:30 I like that. 20:31 It's not ugly, it's not evil, 20:36 it's actually a holy part of who He is, 20:39 He is the epitome of what sin is not. 20:42 He is totally different from that. 20:45 So, to understand how Paul develops this idea 20:49 of revelation of God's wrath, it's helpful to see 20:52 how He steps through the rest of the passage, 20:56 we have a graphic that people will be able to see, 21:00 Paul's thesis is in verse 18, we read that already, 21:04 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven 21:06 against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men 21:09 who by their own unrighteousness suppress the truth. " 21:11 Then he talks about what has happened, 21:16 why did this occur? 21:17 Because they saw that they did not praise God 21:21 or acknowledge God. Right, yeah. 21:22 They saw the revelation, they recognized the revelation, 21:26 they recognized God behind this. 21:28 Now, there are people today who want to say 21:31 that God is not there, 21:34 that nature doesn't reveal who He is, 21:36 but I'll tell you what, 21:38 the more and more we learn about nature, 21:40 the more we see about how incredible it is, 21:43 and life, it just leads us to say, 21:45 "Wow! there has to be something behind this. " 21:48 Now, that leads to result is... because they don't praise Him, 21:53 because they don't turn to Him, 21:55 then they end up losing the light, 21:57 and then he goes through 21:59 a series of causes and expressions, 22:02 causes and expressions... 22:03 we'll look at this in more detail next time 22:05 but it always starts with people, 22:08 it's interesting here, it always starts with people. 22:12 In verse 23, in verse 25 and in verse 28. 22:17 The people do something, 22:19 first they exchange God for idols, 22:22 next they exchange truth for a lie, 22:24 finally, people do not approve to have God in their knowledge, 22:28 so, in each case, the people do something first 22:32 and then, God responds, 22:35 and in each case, it was as he hands them over, 22:39 this is the expression of the wrath of God 22:42 that Paul is describing in Romans 1, 22:44 so they do something and then God responds, 22:46 remember we said that wrath is not a permanent 22:50 characteristic of God. 22:51 Shelley: It's a reaction... Tom: It's a reaction. 22:52 Shelley: Holy hatred. 22:54 Yeah, it's holy hatred so, first is described their sin, 22:57 then is described their reaction, 22:59 now, interestingly, 23:01 we'll talk about this more next time, 23:02 but interestingly, we notice, 23:04 that actually, the homosexual activity 23:07 that he has described is not the part 23:11 where they're doing something that God responds to, 23:14 it actually falls under the part of God's response, 23:17 and what happens after he hands them over. 23:21 So, it's a rather interesting twist and turn 23:25 so, there's... in each case... they exchange God for idols, 23:30 then they go into uncleanness and dishonoring, 23:33 they exchange truth for the lie 23:36 then they end up with dishonorable passions, 23:38 then they won't have God in their knowledge, 23:41 they end up with a disapproved mind, 23:43 and so that leads them down to the experience of what they have 23:48 at the end of this passage. 23:50 But then, what does it mean that God "hands them over?" 23:55 I mean, isn't He a God of love 23:56 and why would He hand them over to evil? 24:01 Yeah, now, that's the part that challenges us to think 24:06 more about what He... this means, 24:07 some people maintain 24:09 that God's wrath is passive in nature, 24:11 He just lets people have the consequences of their choices 24:16 but Paul didn't put it in the passive voice 24:20 and he doesn't describe it, 24:22 he actually describes it as an active part of God, 24:24 God hands over. 24:26 Paul actually presents it in these active terms, 24:29 God hands these people over to be ruled by evil passions 24:32 and we wonder, "Well, why... that's crazy, 24:34 why would a loving God, do that? 24:37 Why would He hand them over?" 24:39 What is going on here is God giving people 24:42 the result of their rebellion against Him. 24:45 They did not want Him... 24:47 so He gives them over to be ruled 24:49 by the passions that they've chosen. 24:52 Now, He hands them over but it's... 24:54 you could say it's rather 24:56 typical sense of Biblical justice. 24:59 Isn't that kind of though like... when, in Exodus, 25:04 Pharaoh had hardened his heart 25:06 but then it says that God hardened the heart. 25:09 Yes, God pushed him into a corner to make a decision. 25:13 Yes. 25:14 First Pharaoh active... then God responds. 25:16 Yes. 25:17 And actually, when you look at that whole story 25:19 of Pharaoh, God gave him ten chances. 25:21 Amen... 25:23 There were nine... he could have let them go 25:24 before losing his son. 25:26 So each time it got a bit worse, 25:27 it got a bit worse, it got a bit worse... 25:30 and each time, Pharaoh was just stubborn. 25:32 He just wouldn't give in 25:34 so this sense of judgment goes like this, 25:37 "The measure you use is the measure you get. " 25:40 Shelley: That's the Kingdom principle, Amen. 25:42 Yeah, this is not to suggest that these people are hopeless. 25:45 See, some people say, "Well, God hands them over 25:48 so that they'll just be destroyed by al of that," 25:50 no, no, remember, 25:52 you have to think of the wider context 25:54 that Paul is talking about, 25:56 he's talking about people who are lost, 25:57 why is he talking about people being lost? 25:59 In here, because of sin and because they... 26:02 they exchange the glory of God for something else, 26:06 it's something that they did. 26:08 So, what does Paul want for these people? 26:09 Shelley: He wants salvation... Tom: He wants them to be saved. 26:11 He says, "All have sinned 26:12 and have fallen short of the glory of God. " 26:14 So, he says, "This is happening, 26:16 so that they'll turn back to God. " 26:18 So "Why does a loving God let them turn over?" 26:21 If you've ever read C.S. Lewis' "Screwtape Letters," 26:25 it's kind of a... helpful little description there 26:28 where the Chief Devil is saying to the younger Devil, 26:30 and he says, "Don't push this guy too far 26:33 because if you do, he may turn to the 'enemy. '" 26:35 Tom: And, of course, in... Shelley: The "enemy" being God. 26:38 Tom: the "enemy" being God... he may turn to the "enemy" 26:40 and that seems to be exactly what happens 26:42 as so many times, people are pushed 26:44 and pushed and pushed, until they realize, 26:47 "You know, I can't make it on my own. " 26:49 You know, when you think about that, 26:51 that's... in Exodus... I mean, in the Old Testament, 26:55 God, often, when the Israelites, the Hebrew children, 27:00 when they were just rebelling against Him, 27:03 He would send Jeremiah or some prophet 27:06 some prophet that would preach and preach 27:08 and warn them of all the things He was going to do, 27:10 and when they wouldn't do it, 27:12 He would give them over to their own destruction for a while 27:17 and that always turned them back to Him. 27:19 Yeah, see, Jesus said that the harlots and the tax collectors 27:22 go into the Kingdom of God before you... 27:23 talking to the Pharisees... 27:25 see, harlots and tax collectors know they're bad, 27:28 they know that they need help, they need a Savior, 27:30 so that's exactly what's going on here in Romans, 27:33 Paul is describing the sinful world, 27:34 it's under the wrath of God 27:36 but there's a brighter day coming 27:38 if they will turn to the righteousness of God. 27:40 Okay, we're going to see 27:41 what this has to do with homosexuality, 27:44 in our next Program so please stay tuned. 27:46 Dr. Tom Sheperd, thank you so much 27:48 for being here with us again today 27:50 and we are so glad that you're joining us 27:53 and hope that you are really taking note 27:56 and learning what the Bible has to say about: 27:59 Love, Marriage, Sex and Divorce. 28:01 Now, our prayer for you is that 28:03 God will multiply His mercy, love and grace to you. 28:06 Thank you. |
Revised 2016-03-28