Participants: Don Mckintosh (Host), Manjula Borge
Series Code: HFAL
Program Code: HFAL000171
00:49 Hello and welcome to Health for a Lifetime.
00:51 I'm your host Don Mackintosh. 00:53 Today we're going to be talking about a very serious subject. 00:56 We're going to talk about sexual abuse 00:58 and how it relates to children. 01:01 This has been a big problem recently in this country and 01:05 many places around the world it is a big problem. 01:08 Today if you are a young person watching or if you're a 01:11 healthcare provider or if you are someone that just sees 01:16 something that looks troubling to you, I know you're going 01:18 to find some things that will help. 01:19 Talking with us today is a psychiatrist from 01:23 Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, Dr. Manjula Borge. 01:28 Doctor, we're just glad that you could take the time 01:30 out of your busy fellowship. 01:32 You're doing a fellowship now in adolescent and child psychiatry 01:36 I understand there where you are doing the fellowship they 01:39 actually have a traumatic center that actually deals with this 01:43 very problem. 01:44 Yes, thank you for having me here. 01:46 At Allegany General Hospital we have a center for traumatic 01:50 disorders. 01:51 We see a lot of children who are abused in different ways 01:55 and give them help, give them support. 02:01 But even when I see patients I see a lot of children who have 02:07 been through different kinds of abuse. 02:08 It's really very devastating. 02:11 Imagine a child who is growing up and having a developing mind 02:17 and the adults role is to take care of them, to protect them 02:24 to teach them, to nurture them. 02:26 When this is broken, when this is destroyed and someone who's 02:31 in the capacity of helping and protecting the child, violates 02:36 the child in different ways be it physical, emotional, or 02:41 sexual the development of the child is not normal any more. 02:47 It goes in several different ways and children are affected 02:52 majorly by the different events that can occur. 02:56 It's a huge, huge impact that is placed on the developing mind. 03:03 Two things, while we go through this part of the program, that I 03:06 just want to say. 03:07 If you're involved in abusing a child, I hope this program 03:10 makes you so uncomfortable that you turn yourself in. 03:14 You need help. 03:15 If you're someone who's gone through abuse or experienced 03:18 that, I hope you find hope and help in the program today. 03:24 Let's look then at what the impact is of the emotional 03:30 physical, sexual abuse. 03:32 You might want to give some kind of definition but then 03:34 going into what the impact is, 03:36 what kind of damage does this cause. 03:38 Studies have shown that people who are abused they in turn 03:43 return and abuse - become abusers from what their 03:48 experience has been. 03:49 Like you mentioned earlier, it's very important to go and 03:53 get the help that they need so that they will turn out 03:57 to not abuse others. 04:01 In other words, this is a plea for help even for someone 04:04 that's involved - a perpetrator. 04:06 Absolutely. 04:07 You know there's a lot of resources, they can go and talk 04:10 to your doctor and things can remain confidential. 04:12 And you can get the help that you need. 04:14 How do we know when someone has been abused? 04:17 We don't want to get into all the details but how can 04:19 we tell when someone is being abused 04:21 physically, emotionally, psychologically? 04:24 What are the warning signs and symptoms? 04:26 There are several signs of a person who has been abused 04:29 may not react in what we call normal ways. 04:33 They might be more irritable, more anxious, certain things 04:38 that they do might not be normal. 04:41 For example: children if you see them playing they might not 04:45 play like a normal child would with other children. 04:48 They can also reenact their abuse. 04:51 For example: if they're playing with toys or with dolls they 04:56 might do the same thing that was done to them to that doll. 05:01 Those are all BIG warning signs. 05:03 Yes. 05:04 If a child is doing certain things that show that something 05:09 doesn't look right. 05:10 Or why is the child being so brutal like killing the doll, 05:17 or killing the soldier, or whatever? 05:19 So if a child shows symptoms like that you maybe want to 05:24 find out a little bit more. 05:26 It can be something that is just know about that they saw from 05:29 TV or learned about. 05:32 But one might want to ask if you see certain kind of 05:37 actions from the child that trigger some kind of suspicion 05:44 of abuse. 05:45 By beholding we're changed and they've been changed by what 05:48 they beheld or what's been done to them. 05:49 Yes, because a child who is not supposed to know certain things 05:54 and is exposed to that will probably show it out 05:59 in certain ways. 06:00 That can be a warning sign to parents if it's coming from the 06:05 family or from the neighborhood to find out what's going on. 06:10 Are there any statistics? 06:11 Who are the people most involved in abusing? 06:15 I think usually what studies show is people who are known 06:21 to the abused person. 06:24 Is this the person that drives down the road? 06:26 It's the person that's in their normal life. 06:28 Yes, well, you can have people even from the streets, 06:32 strangers who abuse people who cause rapes. 06:37 But usually if it's something that's going on within the 06:41 family situation, within the neighborhood, it's usually a 06:46 like a known person probably a boyfriend or even a spouse 06:50 or a parent can be the perpetrator. 06:55 For a professional, clinician, nurse, doctor, psychologist, 07:02 etc they're duty bound to report anything that they think is 07:09 suspicious. 07:10 If they don't they could loose their license. 07:11 They need to do that. 07:14 A school principal, a teacher - same thing. 07:16 They need to report that, if they don't then they're going 07:19 to be in trouble. 07:21 But what about lay people? 07:22 What should they do? 07:23 How should they relate? 07:24 I think lay people should definitely ask for help or find 07:30 out resources that they can get the help from. 07:33 Imagine if someone is going through certain abuse 07:37 you want to protect that person. 07:39 You want to prevent any further abuse. 07:43 So for a lay person I think it's important to contact 07:49 any mental health resource agency or any kind of facility 07:55 where you can find out and learn something more. 07:58 A lot of these places sometimes they don't even ask 08:01 who is the person reporting. 08:03 You don't need to be fearful of that. 08:05 At least once you report the authorities can come and 08:08 investigate the problem and find out what's going on. 08:13 I think one should not be hesitant to seek help to help 08:17 somebody who's going through a certain type of abuse. 08:20 I think it's important that you don't necessarily have to 08:26 know the abuse in 100% happening even if you suspect it but 08:31 you're not sure, you can report it. 08:35 The authorities will come and try to find out the details 08:39 of what is going on. 08:41 So even if you suspect certain physical abuse or danger 08:46 to a child or threat to the child's life or sexual abuse 08:52 one can report that and then it's up to the authorities to go 08:55 investigate if this is the case or not. 08:58 Let's talk about the impact this has on the children themselves. 09:03 What are the studies showing? 09:04 What is the impact for these types of abuse - physical, 09:08 emotional, and sexual? 09:09 One can just imagine what impact it has on the child. 09:15 I see a lot of patients who've been abused. 09:19 They are very devastated. 09:22 People who are supposed to protect them are abusing them. 09:26 I think children go through a period of where they mistrust 09:31 protectors. 09:32 It's not just they mistrust them, they even mistrust other 09:37 people like medical professionals and other people 09:39 who are trying to help them. 09:41 The trust is lost. 09:42 They think that you're not going to care or you're not 09:46 going to do anything about it or even if you care, 09:49 what can you do, the situation is hopeless. 09:53 This is happening because of my own loved one, 09:56 so what can you do? 09:57 I think there's a lot of mistrust involved. 10:01 a lot of feelings of basically hopelessness. 10:05 This is an environment where they're supposed to be protected 10:09 and kept safe and this violation is happening to them. 10:13 So they feel very hopeless. 10:15 Sometimes they even feel like nothing can be done. 10:17 If their father is abusing them and they tell their mom, 10:22 the mom is going to get more upset and more angry 10:26 so they might as well not tell them that. 10:30 They might as well not hurt the other parent. 10:34 Are they unaware that they are being abused? 10:38 Do they think it's normal? 10:39 Sometimes that could be. 10:41 If a child doesn't know what's proper, 10:46 what is right from wrong, they might think that this 10:50 is something that is supposed to be happening. 10:55 But I think that when the children talk in school 10:58 with their friends about what is going on, they can 11:02 find out from their teachers that this is something not 11:05 supposed to be happening and I think they can get the help 11:08 that they need. 11:09 So impact of them is: trust, hopelessness, fearfulness, 11:13 a sense of anxiety. 11:16 Is there any other impact? 11:17 Absolutely. 11:18 There is a lot of physical and emotional impact that the 11:21 child might have problems with physical complaints. 11:25 They might show it as having nightmares, night terrors, 11:29 and difficulty sleeping. 11:31 They might become very aggressive with their peers. 11:35 They might become threatening. 11:36 Just like how they are threatened during the process 11:41 to not tell anybody or to be quiet about it. 11:44 They in turn can become bullies at school and be very angry and 11:48 resentful. 11:49 So any drastic change here or building change would cause 11:54 you to think, "I need to check this out. " 11:56 What about this? 11:58 Sometimes people say, "Well, that child's lying. " 12:03 Do children ever lie about abuse? 12:07 Well, sometimes children can do that. 12:10 Sometimes if a child is upset with the parent or some reason 12:15 they didn't get their way, if they didn't get their allowance, 12:18 or they were not allowed to go on a date and they've been 12:24 through a situation before where they were abused 12:27 and they got the help that they needed. 12:33 So they might look at this situation as, "Well, if I just 12:37 lie, I might get the help and I might be able to do 12:40 what I want to. " 12:41 So, you know, you can have instances where children lie. 12:45 But that's rare. 12:46 Yes, that is rare. 12:48 Usually kids who are abused, usually that's going on in the 12:54 family and maybe it's not just them. 12:56 It's probably the other siblings also. 12:58 It could probably even be the spouse. 13:00 So you can figure it out by just looking into... you have ways 13:05 of figuring out whether or not it's a lie or not? 13:06 Yes, you can get more history, more collateral history and 13:11 then find out. 13:12 I think sometimes kids if they do that and if they lie they 13:15 come out after some time and they will tell you 13:17 that they did lie about it when you were interviewing them. 13:21 So they'll come and say, "I did this just so I could have 13:24 this or do this. " 13:25 The perpetrator, the person watching, they probably 13:31 many times will focus while that person is lying and they 13:34 really play that up. 13:35 I'm sure they do that to get around and not be caught. 13:41 Let me ask this about those who are abusing others. 13:46 There was a large church organization that unfortunately 13:49 was involved and recently many people heard about this 13:53 where people in authority were abusing parishioners 13:56 But then they would be shifted and they would cover it up. 13:59 Now they're taking stronger measures. 14:02 I don't know everything about what that particular church is 14:05 doing, but I do know that some people say there is really very 14:12 limited amount of hope for someone that is actually 14:16 an adult that is abusing people. 14:19 They many times don't get over this. 14:21 They've been for years in treatment and then they go 14:23 right out and do it again. 14:25 Is there any hope for perpetrators? 14:27 Absolutely. 14:28 I think there is ALWAYS hope. 14:30 If one want to change their ways of whatever they've been 14:34 doing, be it even if they were abused. 14:38 You know a lot of people, like I mentioned, abuse others 14:40 because they themselves have been abused and if they look at 14:44 that as something that shouldn't have happened to them or how 14:49 could it and as a way of revenge of what happened to them. 14:54 on others. 14:55 I think that definitely there is always hope. 14:58 When one wants to and it matters if you want to help yourself. 15:06 That is an important aspect also because if you go to the 15:09 different clinicians and if you go to different people to get 15:11 the help and yourself don't want to necessarily change 15:16 or be helped then I think whatever one can do might not 15:20 be helpful to that person. 15:21 But if you want to get help or whatever addiction you have 15:26 there is definitely hope. 15:28 You go speak to your physicians and they can talk with you. 15:33 I think fear of not getting the help is a barrier that 15:38 stops people going and getting the help. 15:41 And also fear of the consequences of what 15:43 will happen. 15:44 But I think one needs to deal with that fear and one needs to 15:48 be able to put up with the consequences of what 15:51 you've done. 15:52 You never know that while going through that process of maybe 15:56 some things that you have done in the past will help you 15:59 and make you a better person and will teach you. 16:04 I think it's very important to go and get the help and 16:08 there is a lot of hope for people who hurt other people. 16:12 I really hope that if there is anyone in that situation to know 16:16 there is a lot of hope and a lot of help out there. 16:19 We're talking with Dr. Manjula Borge 16:22 She's a psychiatrist from Pennsylvania. 16:25 When we come back we're going to look at some hope 16:29 and some help. 16:30 We started talk about that now, not only for a perpetrators 16:34 but also for those who have been the recipients of abuse. 16:38 Join us when we come back. 16:40 Have you found yourself wishing that you could 16:42 shed a few pounds? 16:43 Have you been on a diet for most of your life? 16:46 But not found anything that will really keep the weight off? 16:48 If you've answered yes to any of these questions, then we 16:52 have a solution for you that works. 16:54 Dr. Hans Diehl and Dr. Aileen Ludington 16:57 have written a marvelous booklet called, 16:59 Reversing Obesity Naturally, and we'd like to send it to you 17:03 free of charge. 17:04 Here's a medically sound approach successfully used 17:07 by thousands who are able to eat more 17:09 and loose weight permanently 17:11 without feeling guilty or hungry through lifestyle medicine. 17:15 Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington have been featured on 3ABN 17:18 and in this booklet they present a sensible approach to eating, 17:22 nutrition, and lifestyle changes that can help you prevent 17:25 heart disease, diabetes, and even cancer. 17:27 Call or write today for your free copy: 17:41 Welcome back. 17:42 We're talking with Dr. Borge from Pennsylvania. 17:45 She is a psychiatrist that is now doing a fellowship in 17:51 child and adolescent psychiatry. 17:54 She has to deal, unfortunately, with people that have gone 17:58 through significant abuse - physical, emotional, 18:01 and sexual abuse. 18:02 You've been talking about the problem and what 18:06 the impact can be. 18:07 Now we want to talk about the treatment. 18:08 We want to talk about help and hope. 18:10 What kind of things do you as a clinician do? 18:13 What can we do? 18:14 What can those listening do to get the help that they need? 18:17 Now we're talking not about the perpetrators, although we 18:20 talked about that a little bit, but we're talking about those 18:23 who have been abused. 18:24 I feel very privileged to work with people who have been 18:31 abused and have been violated. 18:34 I think that being in a position where I can be of help and 18:39 support to them it just makes me very happy. 18:43 I feel fortunate to be in that position to work with people. 18:48 What can people who have been abused do about it? 18:53 I think number one is going out there and seeking help. 19:01 I think that's an important step that one can take. 19:04 Because if one stays with the guilt and all the suffering that 19:08 they're going through and feel that there is nothing they can 19:11 do about it or it's just so impossible. 19:13 That is a huge problem. 19:17 It's more devastating. 19:18 Absolutely. 19:19 If you don't know what kind of help is out there, I think you 19:24 cannot be benefited from it. 19:26 So let's say you're a 5 year old or a 7 year old, you're just one 19:28 of these little children, tell someone, tell an aunt, 19:33 tell an uncle, tell them to go get some help. 19:35 Sure. 19:36 If the unfortunate situation if it is happening with your own 19:41 parent or parents then you can tell your family members or 19:47 you can tell your school teacher. 19:49 Pastor, school teacher - just tell someone. 19:51 Sure. 19:52 I think that that is a very important step one can take 19:56 in healing themselves by going and seeking for help by 20:01 telling someone. 20:02 That just opens a huge area of where you can get help 20:08 and be supported. 20:09 I think coming out with that and asking for help is important. 20:13 You don't have to explain exactly the details because 20:16 once that you ask for help they'll get to that. 20:20 They will refer you to the right person so you might not 20:23 want to explain the whole detail if you don't feel comfortable 20:26 with that person. 20:28 But at least if that person can hook you up with the right 20:31 facility to get the help, then you can go and discuss that with 20:35 your psychiatrist who will keep things confidential 20:38 but of course like you mentioned before in cases of abuse 20:42 confidentiality has to be breached because the right 20:45 authorities have to be informed so that this will be prevented 20:49 from further happening. 20:51 You talk about seeking some support from the community 20:54 and the family. 20:55 Of course the family is involved sometimes that's 20:57 not possible, although an extended family... 20:59 But what kind of things can a community do or a family that's 21:03 not involved do to support someone that's gone 21:06 through abuse? 21:08 I think community is very important and as community 21:10 I think we need to be not be judgmental. 21:13 We shouldn't look at the person and start saying, "Well, it's 21:17 probably because of how they were or their bad behavior or 21:21 different things they have been through. " 21:24 Blame the person who's abused for their abuse is not good. 21:28 Is what you're saying? 21:29 Yes, yes. 21:30 We have to be very, as a community and as Christian 21:34 people, we need to be very supportive of the people who 21:38 have been through difficult situations. 21:41 We need to understand where they're coming from. 21:44 Sometime they can be upset with us when we're trying to 21:47 help them. 21:48 They might be rude to us. 21:50 They might be like, "Ok, why are you trying to do this, 21:52 I don't need your help. " 21:53 I think we as Christians need to understand that. 21:56 We need to be supportive no matter what response we get 21:59 from that person. 22:00 Because once a person starts seeing that you are 22:04 understanding of them even though they were mean 22:08 or rude or abrupt with you that builds trust. 22:12 That builds trust and then probably they are able to 22:15 open up more to you and get the help that they need. 22:19 So being supportive, being understanding no matter how 22:23 the person reacts to you is very important. 22:26 So a listening ear from an authority figure because their 22:29 authority figures has been abusing them and they need to 22:33 have them re-established a confidence in a person that's in 22:36 a position of authority. 22:38 Sometimes we just need to listen. 22:42 We just need to not say much and just be there and listen. 22:46 That is also very important. 22:48 What specifically should we avoid? 22:49 What are the taboos? 22:50 You said judgmentalism and some of these other things. 22:54 but are there any other things to avoid? 22:56 Jumping to conclusions where you think that this person is 23:03 not saying the truth because of how they are, because of their 23:06 history of lying so they're probably not saying the truth. 23:09 You know you don't know that. 23:11 You need to make sure. 23:13 You need to get the right kind of help so that people will 23:17 investigate of what's going on. 23:18 Ok, for the person that's been abused 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 year old 23:23 whatever, is there hope? 23:26 Absolutely. 23:27 You talk about getting help but what's the hope? 23:29 Once again there is hope. 23:31 Once you talk with somebody or the right professional, 23:36 or another clergy, or whoever, you need to realize that it was 23:40 not your fault, it was not their fault of what has happened. 23:45 So once the people are able to realize that it was not their 23:48 fault and they don't need to be dealing with all that 23:51 guilt, resentment and hurt, so that opens up a whole new 23:56 ways of healing. 23:59 Once you are able to do that for yourself, once you're able 24:03 to forgive yourself AND the person that has done that to you 24:07 that just is such a huge healing process. 24:11 As a psychiatrist you're telling me that 24:15 forgiveness is important. 24:17 Yes, forgiveness is very important. 24:20 If you don't forgive it breeds a lot of hatred, resentment, 24:23 anger, and anger turned inward is depression. 24:29 And then you turn that all inside and then you get 24:32 depressed and you suffer worst consequences. 24:36 You suffer some consequences of all that build up inside - 24:42 hurt and guilt and anger. 24:44 Whereas if you are able to free that and forgive that person 24:49 who has done that to you, you find a new hope which is 24:53 indescribable. 24:55 You find that new hope, that new reassurance that you can 25:00 go on with your life. 25:01 You can go on to have families, to have kids and be supportive 25:05 of them rather than abuse another person like you've 25:08 been abused. 25:10 So you can be able to do that once you forgive someone 25:14 who has done that to you. 25:15 Now you've talked about some exciting studies as well. 25:19 I want you to talk about those. 25:20 But first, two things I want you to talk about: 25:22 1. Setting boundaries with the person that has abused you. 25:26 2. Resilience - the good news about resilience. 25:31 I think it's very important. 25:34 I think a person who is abused is usually afraid of you going 25:39 and telling authorities thinking that they will get in some 25:41 kind of trouble and it will become worse because if this 25:45 is coming from your own parent, let's say. 25:48 I think that it is important that a person that is being 25:52 abused realizes that, that it is important to do that. 25:56 If you don't do that then you're not going to be able to get out 26:00 of that situation. 26:01 The boundaries are not necessarily set by you, 26:03 I'm not saying that. 26:04 You turn them in and the people that are professionals 26:07 will set the boundaries. 26:08 Sometimes they put people away, sometime they do this... 26:10 but being comfortable with the fact that there 26:12 needs to be boundaries set. 26:13 Absolutely. 26:14 Sometimes children who are being abused need to realize that 26:17 maybe if it's going on in the family and maybe if the other 26:21 parent is not going to be supportive that there are 26:24 foster homes, there are group homes where the child is taken 26:27 out for a period of time and kept in a safe environment 26:30 so that the abuse will not continue. 26:32 Resilience - quickly, what's the hopeful news about 26:36 resilience studies? 26:38 Being knowledgeable about what has happened to you 26:42 and that it shouldn't have happened and being able to 26:46 realize that. 26:47 Being able to forgive the person is very important and this 26:52 brings resilience in a person. 26:53 So the forgiveness is key? 26:55 Absolutely. 26:56 It is very freeing. 26:58 It frees you from the hatred, the guilt, the anger that you 27:03 have against this person. 27:05 It not only getting help for yourself and forgiving yourself 27:09 but forgiving the person brings out a whole new area 27:14 where you feel very freed and very positive 27:17 and are able to move on with your regular life. 27:20 We've been talking with Dr. Borge. 27:23 She's a psychiatrist. 27:24 Thank you so much for joining us. 27:26 I want to close today with a Bible thought and it's found in 27:31 Ezekiel 18. 27:32 It talks about someone who's gone through a traumatic 27:34 situation and it says this, "He sees all the sins that 27:37 his father has done and considers them but does 27:40 not do likewise. " 27:42 We hope that if you've been through a traumatic situation 27:45 you be able to consider it and understand it. 27:48 But by God's grace, through His power, through the right 27:51 help you don't have to do likewise. 27:54 May God bless you today. |
Revised 2014-12-17