Health for a Lifetime

Sexual Abuse With Children

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Don Mckintosh (Host), Manjula Borge

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Series Code: HFAL

Program Code: HFAL000171


00:49 Hello and welcome to Health for a Lifetime.
00:51 I'm your host Don Mackintosh.
00:53 Today we're going to be talking about a very serious subject.
00:56 We're going to talk about sexual abuse
00:58 and how it relates to children.
01:01 This has been a big problem recently in this country and
01:05 many places around the world it is a big problem.
01:08 Today if you are a young person watching or if you're a
01:11 healthcare provider or if you are someone that just sees
01:16 something that looks troubling to you, I know you're going
01:18 to find some things that will help.
01:19 Talking with us today is a psychiatrist from
01:23 Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, Dr. Manjula Borge.
01:28 Doctor, we're just glad that you could take the time
01:30 out of your busy fellowship.
01:32 You're doing a fellowship now in adolescent and child psychiatry
01:36 I understand there where you are doing the fellowship they
01:39 actually have a traumatic center that actually deals with this
01:43 very problem.
01:44 Yes, thank you for having me here.
01:46 At Allegany General Hospital we have a center for traumatic
01:50 disorders.
01:51 We see a lot of children who are abused in different ways
01:55 and give them help, give them support.
02:01 But even when I see patients I see a lot of children who have
02:07 been through different kinds of abuse.
02:08 It's really very devastating.
02:11 Imagine a child who is growing up and having a developing mind
02:17 and the adults role is to take care of them, to protect them
02:24 to teach them, to nurture them.
02:26 When this is broken, when this is destroyed and someone who's
02:31 in the capacity of helping and protecting the child, violates
02:36 the child in different ways be it physical, emotional, or
02:41 sexual the development of the child is not normal any more.
02:47 It goes in several different ways and children are affected
02:52 majorly by the different events that can occur.
02:56 It's a huge, huge impact that is placed on the developing mind.
03:03 Two things, while we go through this part of the program, that I
03:06 just want to say.
03:07 If you're involved in abusing a child, I hope this program
03:10 makes you so uncomfortable that you turn yourself in.
03:14 You need help.
03:15 If you're someone who's gone through abuse or experienced
03:18 that, I hope you find hope and help in the program today.
03:24 Let's look then at what the impact is of the emotional
03:30 physical, sexual abuse.
03:32 You might want to give some kind of definition but then
03:34 going into what the impact is,
03:36 what kind of damage does this cause.
03:38 Studies have shown that people who are abused they in turn
03:43 return and abuse - become abusers from what their
03:48 experience has been.
03:49 Like you mentioned earlier, it's very important to go and
03:53 get the help that they need so that they will turn out
03:57 to not abuse others.
04:01 In other words, this is a plea for help even for someone
04:04 that's involved - a perpetrator.
04:06 Absolutely.
04:07 You know there's a lot of resources, they can go and talk
04:10 to your doctor and things can remain confidential.
04:12 And you can get the help that you need.
04:14 How do we know when someone has been abused?
04:17 We don't want to get into all the details but how can
04:19 we tell when someone is being abused
04:21 physically, emotionally, psychologically?
04:24 What are the warning signs and symptoms?
04:26 There are several signs of a person who has been abused
04:29 may not react in what we call normal ways.
04:33 They might be more irritable, more anxious, certain things
04:38 that they do might not be normal.
04:41 For example: children if you see them playing they might not
04:45 play like a normal child would with other children.
04:48 They can also reenact their abuse.
04:51 For example: if they're playing with toys or with dolls they
04:56 might do the same thing that was done to them to that doll.
05:01 Those are all BIG warning signs.
05:03 Yes.
05:04 If a child is doing certain things that show that something
05:09 doesn't look right.
05:10 Or why is the child being so brutal like killing the doll,
05:17 or killing the soldier, or whatever?
05:19 So if a child shows symptoms like that you maybe want to
05:24 find out a little bit more.
05:26 It can be something that is just know about that they saw from
05:29 TV or learned about.
05:32 But one might want to ask if you see certain kind of
05:37 actions from the child that trigger some kind of suspicion
05:44 of abuse.
05:45 By beholding we're changed and they've been changed by what
05:48 they beheld or what's been done to them.
05:49 Yes, because a child who is not supposed to know certain things
05:54 and is exposed to that will probably show it out
05:59 in certain ways.
06:00 That can be a warning sign to parents if it's coming from the
06:05 family or from the neighborhood to find out what's going on.
06:10 Are there any statistics?
06:11 Who are the people most involved in abusing?
06:15 I think usually what studies show is people who are known
06:21 to the abused person.
06:24 Is this the person that drives down the road?
06:26 It's the person that's in their normal life.
06:28 Yes, well, you can have people even from the streets,
06:32 strangers who abuse people who cause rapes.
06:37 But usually if it's something that's going on within the
06:41 family situation, within the neighborhood, it's usually a
06:46 like a known person probably a boyfriend or even a spouse
06:50 or a parent can be the perpetrator.
06:55 For a professional, clinician, nurse, doctor, psychologist,
07:02 etc they're duty bound to report anything that they think is
07:09 suspicious.
07:10 If they don't they could loose their license.
07:11 They need to do that.
07:14 A school principal, a teacher - same thing.
07:16 They need to report that, if they don't then they're going
07:19 to be in trouble.
07:21 But what about lay people?
07:22 What should they do?
07:23 How should they relate?
07:24 I think lay people should definitely ask for help or find
07:30 out resources that they can get the help from.
07:33 Imagine if someone is going through certain abuse
07:37 you want to protect that person.
07:39 You want to prevent any further abuse.
07:43 So for a lay person I think it's important to contact
07:49 any mental health resource agency or any kind of facility
07:55 where you can find out and learn something more.
07:58 A lot of these places sometimes they don't even ask
08:01 who is the person reporting.
08:03 You don't need to be fearful of that.
08:05 At least once you report the authorities can come and
08:08 investigate the problem and find out what's going on.
08:13 I think one should not be hesitant to seek help to help
08:17 somebody who's going through a certain type of abuse.
08:20 I think it's important that you don't necessarily have to
08:26 know the abuse in 100% happening even if you suspect it but
08:31 you're not sure, you can report it.
08:35 The authorities will come and try to find out the details
08:39 of what is going on.
08:41 So even if you suspect certain physical abuse or danger
08:46 to a child or threat to the child's life or sexual abuse
08:52 one can report that and then it's up to the authorities to go
08:55 investigate if this is the case or not.
08:58 Let's talk about the impact this has on the children themselves.
09:03 What are the studies showing?
09:04 What is the impact for these types of abuse - physical,
09:08 emotional, and sexual?
09:09 One can just imagine what impact it has on the child.
09:15 I see a lot of patients who've been abused.
09:19 They are very devastated.
09:22 People who are supposed to protect them are abusing them.
09:26 I think children go through a period of where they mistrust
09:31 protectors.
09:32 It's not just they mistrust them, they even mistrust other
09:37 people like medical professionals and other people
09:39 who are trying to help them.
09:41 The trust is lost.
09:42 They think that you're not going to care or you're not
09:46 going to do anything about it or even if you care,
09:49 what can you do, the situation is hopeless.
09:53 This is happening because of my own loved one,
09:56 so what can you do?
09:57 I think there's a lot of mistrust involved.
10:01 a lot of feelings of basically hopelessness.
10:05 This is an environment where they're supposed to be protected
10:09 and kept safe and this violation is happening to them.
10:13 So they feel very hopeless.
10:15 Sometimes they even feel like nothing can be done.
10:17 If their father is abusing them and they tell their mom,
10:22 the mom is going to get more upset and more angry
10:26 so they might as well not tell them that.
10:30 They might as well not hurt the other parent.
10:34 Are they unaware that they are being abused?
10:38 Do they think it's normal?
10:39 Sometimes that could be.
10:41 If a child doesn't know what's proper,
10:46 what is right from wrong, they might think that this
10:50 is something that is supposed to be happening.
10:55 But I think that when the children talk in school
10:58 with their friends about what is going on, they can
11:02 find out from their teachers that this is something not
11:05 supposed to be happening and I think they can get the help
11:08 that they need.
11:09 So impact of them is: trust, hopelessness, fearfulness,
11:13 a sense of anxiety.
11:16 Is there any other impact?
11:17 Absolutely.
11:18 There is a lot of physical and emotional impact that the
11:21 child might have problems with physical complaints.
11:25 They might show it as having nightmares, night terrors,
11:29 and difficulty sleeping.
11:31 They might become very aggressive with their peers.
11:35 They might become threatening.
11:36 Just like how they are threatened during the process
11:41 to not tell anybody or to be quiet about it.
11:44 They in turn can become bullies at school and be very angry and
11:48 resentful.
11:49 So any drastic change here or building change would cause
11:54 you to think, "I need to check this out. "
11:56 What about this?
11:58 Sometimes people say, "Well, that child's lying. "
12:03 Do children ever lie about abuse?
12:07 Well, sometimes children can do that.
12:10 Sometimes if a child is upset with the parent or some reason
12:15 they didn't get their way, if they didn't get their allowance,
12:18 or they were not allowed to go on a date and they've been
12:24 through a situation before where they were abused
12:27 and they got the help that they needed.
12:33 So they might look at this situation as, "Well, if I just
12:37 lie, I might get the help and I might be able to do
12:40 what I want to. "
12:41 So, you know, you can have instances where children lie.
12:45 But that's rare.
12:46 Yes, that is rare.
12:48 Usually kids who are abused, usually that's going on in the
12:54 family and maybe it's not just them.
12:56 It's probably the other siblings also.
12:58 It could probably even be the spouse.
13:00 So you can figure it out by just looking into... you have ways
13:05 of figuring out whether or not it's a lie or not?
13:06 Yes, you can get more history, more collateral history and
13:11 then find out.
13:12 I think sometimes kids if they do that and if they lie they
13:15 come out after some time and they will tell you
13:17 that they did lie about it when you were interviewing them.
13:21 So they'll come and say, "I did this just so I could have
13:24 this or do this. "
13:25 The perpetrator, the person watching, they probably
13:31 many times will focus while that person is lying and they
13:34 really play that up.
13:35 I'm sure they do that to get around and not be caught.
13:41 Let me ask this about those who are abusing others.
13:46 There was a large church organization that unfortunately
13:49 was involved and recently many people heard about this
13:53 where people in authority were abusing parishioners
13:56 But then they would be shifted and they would cover it up.
13:59 Now they're taking stronger measures.
14:02 I don't know everything about what that particular church is
14:05 doing, but I do know that some people say there is really very
14:12 limited amount of hope for someone that is actually
14:16 an adult that is abusing people.
14:19 They many times don't get over this.
14:21 They've been for years in treatment and then they go
14:23 right out and do it again.
14:25 Is there any hope for perpetrators?
14:27 Absolutely.
14:28 I think there is ALWAYS hope.
14:30 If one want to change their ways of whatever they've been
14:34 doing, be it even if they were abused.
14:38 You know a lot of people, like I mentioned, abuse others
14:40 because they themselves have been abused and if they look at
14:44 that as something that shouldn't have happened to them or how
14:49 could it and as a way of revenge of what happened to them.
14:54 on others.
14:55 I think that definitely there is always hope.
14:58 When one wants to and it matters if you want to help yourself.
15:06 That is an important aspect also because if you go to the
15:09 different clinicians and if you go to different people to get
15:11 the help and yourself don't want to necessarily change
15:16 or be helped then I think whatever one can do might not
15:20 be helpful to that person.
15:21 But if you want to get help or whatever addiction you have
15:26 there is definitely hope.
15:28 You go speak to your physicians and they can talk with you.
15:33 I think fear of not getting the help is a barrier that
15:38 stops people going and getting the help.
15:41 And also fear of the consequences of what
15:43 will happen.
15:44 But I think one needs to deal with that fear and one needs to
15:48 be able to put up with the consequences of what
15:51 you've done.
15:52 You never know that while going through that process of maybe
15:56 some things that you have done in the past will help you
15:59 and make you a better person and will teach you.
16:04 I think it's very important to go and get the help and
16:08 there is a lot of hope for people who hurt other people.
16:12 I really hope that if there is anyone in that situation to know
16:16 there is a lot of hope and a lot of help out there.
16:19 We're talking with Dr. Manjula Borge
16:22 She's a psychiatrist from Pennsylvania.
16:25 When we come back we're going to look at some hope
16:29 and some help.
16:30 We started talk about that now, not only for a perpetrators
16:34 but also for those who have been the recipients of abuse.
16:38 Join us when we come back.
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17:41 Welcome back.
17:42 We're talking with Dr. Borge from Pennsylvania.
17:45 She is a psychiatrist that is now doing a fellowship in
17:51 child and adolescent psychiatry.
17:54 She has to deal, unfortunately, with people that have gone
17:58 through significant abuse - physical, emotional,
18:01 and sexual abuse.
18:02 You've been talking about the problem and what
18:06 the impact can be.
18:07 Now we want to talk about the treatment.
18:08 We want to talk about help and hope.
18:10 What kind of things do you as a clinician do?
18:13 What can we do?
18:14 What can those listening do to get the help that they need?
18:17 Now we're talking not about the perpetrators, although we
18:20 talked about that a little bit, but we're talking about those
18:23 who have been abused.
18:24 I feel very privileged to work with people who have been
18:31 abused and have been violated.
18:34 I think that being in a position where I can be of help and
18:39 support to them it just makes me very happy.
18:43 I feel fortunate to be in that position to work with people.
18:48 What can people who have been abused do about it?
18:53 I think number one is going out there and seeking help.
19:01 I think that's an important step that one can take.
19:04 Because if one stays with the guilt and all the suffering that
19:08 they're going through and feel that there is nothing they can
19:11 do about it or it's just so impossible.
19:13 That is a huge problem.
19:17 It's more devastating.
19:18 Absolutely.
19:19 If you don't know what kind of help is out there, I think you
19:24 cannot be benefited from it.
19:26 So let's say you're a 5 year old or a 7 year old, you're just one
19:28 of these little children, tell someone, tell an aunt,
19:33 tell an uncle, tell them to go get some help.
19:35 Sure.
19:36 If the unfortunate situation if it is happening with your own
19:41 parent or parents then you can tell your family members or
19:47 you can tell your school teacher.
19:49 Pastor, school teacher - just tell someone.
19:51 Sure.
19:52 I think that that is a very important step one can take
19:56 in healing themselves by going and seeking for help by
20:01 telling someone.
20:02 That just opens a huge area of where you can get help
20:08 and be supported.
20:09 I think coming out with that and asking for help is important.
20:13 You don't have to explain exactly the details because
20:16 once that you ask for help they'll get to that.
20:20 They will refer you to the right person so you might not
20:23 want to explain the whole detail if you don't feel comfortable
20:26 with that person.
20:28 But at least if that person can hook you up with the right
20:31 facility to get the help, then you can go and discuss that with
20:35 your psychiatrist who will keep things confidential
20:38 but of course like you mentioned before in cases of abuse
20:42 confidentiality has to be breached because the right
20:45 authorities have to be informed so that this will be prevented
20:49 from further happening.
20:51 You talk about seeking some support from the community
20:54 and the family.
20:55 Of course the family is involved sometimes that's
20:57 not possible, although an extended family...
20:59 But what kind of things can a community do or a family that's
21:03 not involved do to support someone that's gone
21:06 through abuse?
21:08 I think community is very important and as community
21:10 I think we need to be not be judgmental.
21:13 We shouldn't look at the person and start saying, "Well, it's
21:17 probably because of how they were or their bad behavior or
21:21 different things they have been through. "
21:24 Blame the person who's abused for their abuse is not good.
21:28 Is what you're saying?
21:29 Yes, yes.
21:30 We have to be very, as a community and as Christian
21:34 people, we need to be very supportive of the people who
21:38 have been through difficult situations.
21:41 We need to understand where they're coming from.
21:44 Sometime they can be upset with us when we're trying to
21:47 help them.
21:48 They might be rude to us.
21:50 They might be like, "Ok, why are you trying to do this,
21:52 I don't need your help. "
21:53 I think we as Christians need to understand that.
21:56 We need to be supportive no matter what response we get
21:59 from that person.
22:00 Because once a person starts seeing that you are
22:04 understanding of them even though they were mean
22:08 or rude or abrupt with you that builds trust.
22:12 That builds trust and then probably they are able to
22:15 open up more to you and get the help that they need.
22:19 So being supportive, being understanding no matter how
22:23 the person reacts to you is very important.
22:26 So a listening ear from an authority figure because their
22:29 authority figures has been abusing them and they need to
22:33 have them re-established a confidence in a person that's in
22:36 a position of authority.
22:38 Sometimes we just need to listen.
22:42 We just need to not say much and just be there and listen.
22:46 That is also very important.
22:48 What specifically should we avoid?
22:49 What are the taboos?
22:50 You said judgmentalism and some of these other things.
22:54 but are there any other things to avoid?
22:56 Jumping to conclusions where you think that this person is
23:03 not saying the truth because of how they are, because of their
23:06 history of lying so they're probably not saying the truth.
23:09 You know you don't know that.
23:11 You need to make sure.
23:13 You need to get the right kind of help so that people will
23:17 investigate of what's going on.
23:18 Ok, for the person that's been abused 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 year old
23:23 whatever, is there hope?
23:26 Absolutely.
23:27 You talk about getting help but what's the hope?
23:29 Once again there is hope.
23:31 Once you talk with somebody or the right professional,
23:36 or another clergy, or whoever, you need to realize that it was
23:40 not your fault, it was not their fault of what has happened.
23:45 So once the people are able to realize that it was not their
23:48 fault and they don't need to be dealing with all that
23:51 guilt, resentment and hurt, so that opens up a whole new
23:56 ways of healing.
23:59 Once you are able to do that for yourself, once you're able
24:03 to forgive yourself AND the person that has done that to you
24:07 that just is such a huge healing process.
24:11 As a psychiatrist you're telling me that
24:15 forgiveness is important.
24:17 Yes, forgiveness is very important.
24:20 If you don't forgive it breeds a lot of hatred, resentment,
24:23 anger, and anger turned inward is depression.
24:29 And then you turn that all inside and then you get
24:32 depressed and you suffer worst consequences.
24:36 You suffer some consequences of all that build up inside -
24:42 hurt and guilt and anger.
24:44 Whereas if you are able to free that and forgive that person
24:49 who has done that to you, you find a new hope which is
24:53 indescribable.
24:55 You find that new hope, that new reassurance that you can
25:00 go on with your life.
25:01 You can go on to have families, to have kids and be supportive
25:05 of them rather than abuse another person like you've
25:08 been abused.
25:10 So you can be able to do that once you forgive someone
25:14 who has done that to you.
25:15 Now you've talked about some exciting studies as well.
25:19 I want you to talk about those.
25:20 But first, two things I want you to talk about:
25:22 1. Setting boundaries with the person that has abused you.
25:26 2. Resilience - the good news about resilience.
25:31 I think it's very important.
25:34 I think a person who is abused is usually afraid of you going
25:39 and telling authorities thinking that they will get in some
25:41 kind of trouble and it will become worse because if this
25:45 is coming from your own parent, let's say.
25:48 I think that it is important that a person that is being
25:52 abused realizes that, that it is important to do that.
25:56 If you don't do that then you're not going to be able to get out
26:00 of that situation.
26:01 The boundaries are not necessarily set by you,
26:03 I'm not saying that.
26:04 You turn them in and the people that are professionals
26:07 will set the boundaries.
26:08 Sometimes they put people away, sometime they do this...
26:10 but being comfortable with the fact that there
26:12 needs to be boundaries set.
26:13 Absolutely.
26:14 Sometimes children who are being abused need to realize that
26:17 maybe if it's going on in the family and maybe if the other
26:21 parent is not going to be supportive that there are
26:24 foster homes, there are group homes where the child is taken
26:27 out for a period of time and kept in a safe environment
26:30 so that the abuse will not continue.
26:32 Resilience - quickly, what's the hopeful news about
26:36 resilience studies?
26:38 Being knowledgeable about what has happened to you
26:42 and that it shouldn't have happened and being able to
26:46 realize that.
26:47 Being able to forgive the person is very important and this
26:52 brings resilience in a person.
26:53 So the forgiveness is key?
26:55 Absolutely.
26:56 It is very freeing.
26:58 It frees you from the hatred, the guilt, the anger that you
27:03 have against this person.
27:05 It not only getting help for yourself and forgiving yourself
27:09 but forgiving the person brings out a whole new area
27:14 where you feel very freed and very positive
27:17 and are able to move on with your regular life.
27:20 We've been talking with Dr. Borge.
27:23 She's a psychiatrist.
27:24 Thank you so much for joining us.
27:26 I want to close today with a Bible thought and it's found in
27:31 Ezekiel 18.
27:32 It talks about someone who's gone through a traumatic
27:34 situation and it says this, "He sees all the sins that
27:37 his father has done and considers them but does
27:40 not do likewise. "
27:42 We hope that if you've been through a traumatic situation
27:45 you be able to consider it and understand it.
27:48 But by God's grace, through His power, through the right
27:51 help you don't have to do likewise.
27:54 May God bless you today.


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Revised 2014-12-17