Participants: John Lomacang (Host), John Stanton
Series Code: HCL
Program Code: HCL120016
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00:01 Hello, friends, grab your Bible
00:02 and a friend and sit back 00:04 as we explore God's word together 00:05 on this edition of House Calls. 00:22 Hello, welcome to the best Bible program 00:25 anywhere in the world at this very moment. 00:27 If we didn't believe that we wouldn't be here. 00:30 And if we didn't believe that 00:31 we wouldn't both have the same name. 00:32 I'm John and you're John also, aren't you? 00:35 I certainly am. It's good to have you here. 00:37 It's good to be here. 00:38 We don't have the same last name but we're still brothers. 00:40 That's exactly. We are brothers with a different mother. 00:44 Brothers from a different mother. 00:46 From a different mother. Good to have you here, John. 00:47 Always good to have you in the saddle. That's right. 00:49 You know, you're moving around quite a bit. 00:50 You no longer in Idaho. 00:52 You're up in-- where are you right now? 00:53 I'm in Spokane, Washington. Now what are you doing up there? 00:56 Personal Ministries Department, director there 00:58 at Upper Columbia Conference. Wow. 01:00 Excited about helping people understand the ministry 01:04 they have on a personal level for Christ. 01:06 That's really good. Yeah. 01:07 And so all this experience in House Calls and pastoring 01:10 and all the other good stuff that comes along with it. 01:13 He is not only moving up North, 01:15 he's getting taller. You look tall. 01:17 I'm glad we don't do this program standing up, 01:19 'cause it will be quite embarrassing. 01:21 People tell me I'm tall, but he is 6' 10". 01:24 He always says 6' 9 ½" 01:25 but he never is barefoot. That's right. 01:27 Good to have you here today. What's our topic for today? 01:30 You know, we've got a topic that I'm excited about, 01:32 it's spiritual Babylon and we'll get to that as we do 01:35 always in the second half hour. That's right. 01:37 And excited about that program, 01:39 it's something that is affecting everybody today. 01:42 That's right and those of you who are tuning in, 01:44 we thank you for doing so. 01:45 Get your Bibles. Get you pens. 01:47 Get your questions together. 01:48 We'll tell you where you can send those in a moment. 01:49 But before we do anything else, we're gonna have prayer. 01:52 John, pray for us. Let's do that. 01:53 Father in heaven, we thank You so much 01:55 for this opportunity to open Your word and to study 01:59 and to come to know Your plan for us personally better. 02:04 And, Lord, even on a greater scale to understand 02:06 this world where we are today and where we're headed. 02:08 And so, Father, we just pray that 02:10 as we spend this time together, 02:12 You'll send Your spirit to guide us into all truth, 02:15 to teach us the things that we can know, 02:17 and to bless us during this time together 02:19 in Jesus name, amen. Amen. 02:23 Now, as you know, we always spend 02:24 the first half of the program on Bible questions 02:27 because you send us questions. 02:29 We go to our email website, which is technology nowadays, 02:33 download what we can. 02:35 And you've sent some pretty interesting questions. 02:36 And so, John, what's our first question for today? 02:39 I've got a question from India. India? Okay. 02:43 And let's see he is right now in a country in the Middle East. 02:48 So he's East Indian but he's working 02:50 in the Middle East. Okay. 02:52 And he has a question in regard to the breaking of bread. 02:56 As you know Jesus talked about the breaking of bread 02:59 as He met with His disciples in the upper room 03:01 and He says this, "Is it the last supper, 03:03 which Jesus had with His disciples 03:06 in speaking of the breaking of bread? 03:08 Or is it the breaking of God's word 03:09 when we talk about this as we gather together. 03:13 If not the last supper, 03:15 what does Jesus words mean in Luke 22:19? 03:19 This do in remembrance of me. 03:22 If it means the last supper, 03:23 do we have to do it every Sabbath 03:25 we get together? Please clarify." 03:28 As you know, communion is something 03:29 we do as believers when we get together. 03:32 And to avoid it becoming rout or routine 03:35 and losing its meaning, 03:37 we don't do it every Sabbath. That's right. 03:38 Or every time we get together to worship. 03:42 We do it in response to the command of Jesus 03:45 who said-- who commanded us 03:46 to do these things until He returned. 03:49 But He did in that upper room talk about doing these things 03:53 in the context of breaking bread. 03:55 But there is somewhere else in the scripture 03:56 that I think really kind of-- 03:59 it is the introduction of this topic 04:01 that Jesus is using into His body being broken, 04:04 into the wine there, the Jews representing His blood. 04:10 And for that let's go to John Chapter 6. 04:13 John Chapter 6, and I'm gonna read here 04:16 from verse 50--actually start with verse 48. 04:23 John 6 verse 48. 04:25 "I am the bread of life." Clear definition there isn't it? 04:28 Jesus is the bread of life. 04:30 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 04:34 This is the bread which comes down from heaven 04:36 that one may eat of it and not die. 04:39 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 04:42 If any one eats of this bread, he will live forever. 04:45 And the bread that I shall give is my flesh, 04:47 which I shall give for the life of the world. 04:50 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, 04:52 how can this man give us his flesh to eat? 04:55 Then Jesus said to them, well, so surely I say to you, 04:58 unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, 05:00 and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 05:03 Whoever eats My flesh 05:05 and drinks my blood has eternal life. 05:07 And I will raise him up at the last day. 05:09 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 05:12 He who eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, 05:15 abides in me, and I in him. 05:19 Clearly, a very complicated confusing subject 05:24 because, of course, if you follow 05:26 the story of Christ and the Pharisees around, 05:29 he always--at least they always try to confuse 05:31 the matter by taking him literally. 05:33 They take, you know, a literal approach to this. 05:35 How can he actually tear off His flesh and hand it to us 05:38 to give us His flesh to eat. 05:40 And cut His, you know, His body open, 05:43 drain the blood, and give us His blood to drink. 05:46 Well, there are some, there is specifically 05:48 one denomination in the world that believes 05:51 that communion is the literal body of Christ 05:54 and this is where they're taking those words from 05:56 and that is the Roman Catholic Faith. 05:59 It's called transubstantiation 06:01 which is the transference of the blood 06:04 into the actual body of Christ. 06:06 As Protestants we don't believe that. Right. 06:08 We believe he was speaking figuratively 06:10 as He did much of-- in many of the gospels. 06:14 And specifically in regard to the last supper, 06:18 He gave the disciples as he passed around the bread 06:20 and He passed around the Jews there. 06:22 He gave the disciples an example of what they should do. 06:25 And this is in fact what He is referring to there. 06:27 And what it is to do is to give them a rite, 06:31 a ceremony where they could draw near to Him, 06:35 declare and show their faith in Him 06:37 and their trust in Him, 06:38 so that they would keep their focus 06:41 on what was most important, not the things of this world, 06:44 not the things around them but on Jesus Christ 06:46 who was the source of their salvation. 06:49 And in fact one of the important aspects of this 06:55 and I'll just read this here real quick for those, 06:58 just to have 'cause it's really impactful. 07:00 Sometimes, John, we get caught up in church, 07:03 looking around at others and what they are doing. 07:05 You know, gauging their life and where their faith is. 07:08 If we were to spend more time in response 07:10 to what Jesus is saying here, 07:11 thinking about what Jesus has done, 07:13 we'd realize it's not about us, 07:15 it's about what Jesus has done for us. 07:18 So partaking of him what he has the spiritual food to give us. 07:22 He pours His spirit into us. 07:24 He takes us and molds us and shapes us into His image, 07:30 remaking us, removing the sin from our lives, 07:33 putting righteousness-- His righteousness in us. 07:36 And it is in partaking of what he has to offer 07:39 spiritually that we become changed 07:42 and when we become changed in that way 07:43 we stop looking around at others, engaging the problems 07:46 and the issues in other people's lives. 07:48 So I say, you know, maybe when we're having problems 07:51 in church, we need to get back 07:52 to the focus of what communion was all about 07:54 and that is keeping our eyes on Christ, 07:56 partaking of Him, and abiding in Him 07:57 and not focusing on what the problems 07:59 are in the lives of others. 08:01 And so in this way-- in this respect 08:04 the question goes back here, 08:06 what is this referring to the breaking of bread? 08:09 It's coming together. 08:10 It's experiencing this communion rite, the ceremony. 08:13 Keeping our focus on Jesus and what He means to each of us. 08:17 And the fact that it's not about us. 08:19 It's about Him changing us and glorifying Him in our body 08:23 and everything we do in our lives. That's right. 08:25 You know it's a very interesting story in the Bible 08:27 when the Bible talks about the body 08:29 and the blood of Christ. 08:31 We know that our redemption would not be possible expect 08:33 for the broken body and the shed blood of Christ. 08:37 That is the covering 08:39 of our sinful flesh with His righteousness. 08:43 And there is no salvation outside of grace 08:45 through faith alone and the righteousness of Christ. 08:48 He covers us with His righteousness. 08:50 He covers our mortal body with His glorious body. 08:54 He covers our sinful human flesh with His sinless flesh. 08:58 But there is some comparisons the Bible gives 09:00 and, you know, when we talk about the breaking of bread, 09:03 obviously, the similarities that we find there 09:06 because all through the Bible, 09:07 there's bread talked about and when Jesus 09:09 referred to the fact that He was the true bread 09:11 that came down from heaven, 09:12 He was referring back to the food 09:14 that the children of Israel ate in the wilderness sojourn. 09:17 Also breaking of bread was something 09:19 that the apostles did when the New Testament 09:22 church was being formed in Acts 2 verse 46, 09:24 they continued daily with one accord, 09:26 breaking bread from house to house. 09:29 Not something done on one day of a week 09:30 but they broke bread. 09:32 When they ate, they also broke the physical bread of life 09:35 and the spiritual bread of life. 09:37 But I find there's a great comparison here 09:39 in First Corinthians Chapter 10 09:42 and then First Corinthians Chapter 11 09:44 where Paul once again addresses the issue of communion. 09:48 And Paul didn't have-- he had a direct experience. 09:52 His conversion was at the direct experience 09:54 when he knew that he was battling against Christ. 09:57 When the Lord says, 09:58 "Paul, why are you fighting against the goads? 10:01 Why are you kicking against the pricks?" 10:03 He says, "Why are you battling against me," 10:05 and he blinded Paul and when his eyes were restored 10:09 he was a man who saw it differently. 10:11 But there's something--there's some comparisons he makes 10:13 and I want to first look at First Corinthians Chapter 10 10:16 about the spiritual the food 10:18 and the drink is where I'm headed. 10:21 Now we know there was no baptism into Christ 10:24 but there was baptism nonetheless 10:25 because the Bible talks about the same journey. 10:28 Moreover First Corinthians 10 and verse 1, 10:31 " Moreover, brethren, I do not want you 10:33 to be unaware or ignorant," as the King James Version says, 10:37 "That all our fathers were under the cloud, 10:40 all passed through the sea. 10:42 All were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea." 10:48 And this is the food and drink. 10:50 "All ate the same spiritual food. 10:53 All drank the same spiritual drink, 10:56 for they drank of that spiritual Rock 10:58 that followed them and that Rock was Christ." 11:02 So they had to partake of Christ in the Old Testament 11:04 by faith and they partake-- we partake of Christ 11:06 in the New Testament by faith. 11:08 And so this communion service really the word commune 11:12 is a part of communion. 11:14 Communion, the fellowship of believers 11:16 that are communing with Christ, 11:18 is really what communion is. 11:20 Which is why Jesus says, abide in Me, 11:22 there's a communion-- Exactly. 11:24 Communion, so you have commune, communion, community. 11:28 A community of believers that are communing with Christ 11:31 in the service of partaking of His body and of His blood, 11:35 simply the emblems of His righteousness 11:37 in place of our sinfulness. 11:39 Now the other part here that I think is really important 11:40 to recognize is, Peter's words 11:43 where he talks about partaking of the divine nature. 11:46 That's right. Very good. 11:47 So eating the flesh of Christ, 11:49 eating and drinking His blood 11:51 is partaking through the promises. 11:53 Peter says, in Second Peter 1 verse 4. 11:57 Partaking of those promises and partaking them 12:00 of the divine nature that is the changing, 12:04 the only nature that can change us from within, 12:08 from a divinity standpoint, not putting divinity in us 12:11 but his character and everything that is partaking, 12:15 whether we can partake of that will make us-- 12:18 to make the righteousness of Christ shine through us. 12:22 Only He can provide that, only He can give us 12:24 that kind of spiritual nourishment, 12:25 that food that we can then glorify Christ with. 12:30 And, you know, John, you're opening a lot of doors. 12:32 One of the things we have a challenge with here is 12:35 John and I we think so much alike in so many different areas 12:38 and then the scriptures that we hear 12:39 and I know the Holy Spirit's at work here. 12:41 The Holy Spirit makes it very obvious 12:43 that He's at work here because the doors are opening 12:46 to greater understanding as we discuss these topics. 12:48 So thank you for your questions. 12:50 And so now as you pointed out partaking of the divine nature, 12:53 it takes me now to that text in Colossians 1:27, 12:56 where Paul says again, "To them God willed 13:00 to make known what are the riches 13:02 of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles 13:05 which is Christ in you." In you, real. 13:08 We drink the wine 13:10 which is a symbol of his shed blood unfermented. 13:13 We partake of the bread without yeast the symbol of no sin, 13:17 where it is going in us. 13:19 Once again Christ in us the hope of glory. 13:22 So communion is broad. 13:24 It's more than just a ceremony. 13:25 It is in fact taking of a righteousness 13:28 that we do not naturally possess. 13:30 Now let me open another last-- Okay, go for it. 13:34 'Cause it's now the Holy Spirit speaking 13:36 and we think of Jesus and His body 13:40 and His blood and dividing the bread, 13:42 which is His body, body broken for us. 13:45 But John once speaks of Christ as being the word. 13:49 So the bread also becomes the bread of life 13:52 in that He is the word of life. 13:54 So the bread often we speak of as being the scriptures. 13:59 So when you read, say Paul's other words, 14:04 here we go Second Timothy 2:15, 14:06 "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, 14:08 a worker who does not need to be ashamed, 14:10 rightly dividing the word of truth." 14:13 So you have a clear, I believe, 14:15 intentional reference to the dividing 14:18 of the breaking of bread by the dividing of truth, 14:21 here to the life of Christ. 14:23 And the fact that He was the bread of life 14:25 but He also was the word. 14:26 So the words we read here also feed us 14:29 with nourishment with spiritual nourishment, 14:31 which is Christ also, His way of changing us 14:35 and shaping us into who He wants us to be. 14:37 So there's so much here, 14:40 you know, really there's no simple answer 14:41 to the question, John. 14:43 Real good question from Mayo. 14:48 What is actually meant by the breaking of bread? 14:50 That's right, so many things. 14:51 There's so many aspects to this. 14:53 And it's not just one 14:54 and similarly we find this with the other topics. 14:57 You can't just give one simple answer to this. 14:58 There's so much to it. 15:00 That's what I appreciate about the scriptures. 15:01 There's so much depth. 15:03 You can start the same subject, the same kind of topic 15:06 and still find more treasure there. 15:08 Yeah, the Bible is more like an artichoke than an orange. 15:11 It just continues to peel back 15:12 and when you get to the heart of it, 15:14 you'll see that Christ 15:15 has always been a part of a whole fruit. 15:20 Thank you for that answer, John, really wonderful. 15:23 I have one here it says, "Hello, brothers." 15:25 This is from Ian in Rhode Island. 15:28 "Hello, my brothers. 15:30 I know the scriptures only had one divine author 15:33 and therefore no contradictions. 15:36 With that in mind, would you please help me 15:38 to see the continued harmony between these two text? 15:43 It sure looks on the surface like a contradiction." 15:47 I'll read first-- Second Timothy 3 verse 12 says, 15:50 "Yes, and all who desire to live godly 15:53 in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." 15:57 But then the First Peter 3 verse 13, 16:00 "And who is he who will harm you 16:03 if you become followers of what is good." 16:06 Okay, now you have one that says, 16:08 if you live godly, you will suffer persecution. 16:11 And the other one says, whose gonna harm you 16:13 if you become followers of what is good? 16:16 So the question is that doesn't seem contradictory. 16:20 Well, you got to look at the two stories 16:21 and that's the whole component of what we read in the Bible. 16:26 You know, sometimes you read here 16:29 the goodness of one individual 16:33 and then you go further down in the story. 16:36 Let's look at Peter as the prime example. 16:38 Peter at one moment saying, 16:40 I'll follow you Lord wherever you go. 16:42 And next moment, he's denying his very connection to Christ. 16:47 And then speaks of the same person 16:49 but he speaks of him in two separate scenarios altogether. 16:53 What you have here are two separate scenarios 16:56 in which one is in the context of persecution 16:59 and the other one is in the context 17:00 of living that Christian life. 17:02 Now in the general sense if you are a good neighbor, 17:07 what this First Peter 3:13 is talking about, 17:10 if you are a person who does good 17:12 because Christ is abiding in you, 17:14 he's in essence saying, nobody is gonna bother you 17:16 for living a good life. 17:18 That's the context of First Peter 3 and verse 13. 17:21 If you become a follower of what is good, 17:24 nobody is gonna bother you. 17:25 That's what he in essence saying here. 17:27 But Second Timothy 3:13, Second Timothy 3 verse 12 17:30 is talking about the persecution 17:32 that Paul was presently going through 17:35 and he is writing to Timothy who is gonna take the reigns 17:39 after Paul passes off the scene 17:41 because in the very same scriptures 17:44 he said to Timothy my departure is at hand. 17:47 And he did not want persecution to 17:48 become a deterrent to doing what is the will of God 17:53 and the call of God on Timothy's life. 17:55 So he says, Timothy, this is just how it's gonna be. 17:57 That's the context of Second Timothy 3 and verse 12. 18:00 I've been persecuted so much 18:02 and he talks about all the stripes 18:04 and the imprisonment and the lashes and being ostracized. 18:07 He says, so don't let this be a--don't let this prevent you 18:11 from spreading the gospel because who ever lives godly 18:15 is gonna suffer persecution. 18:16 That's the context of the story. 18:17 So look at the stories in the full picture. 18:20 One is simply saying if you're a good neighbor, 18:22 if you live the right life, if you do what is good, 18:24 nobody is gonna bother you. And that's in essence true. 18:27 People don't bother individuals 18:29 that are doing good things for the most part. 18:31 However, because of the sinful world 18:33 sometimes bad things-- on many levels, 18:36 bad things do happen to good people. 18:39 And that's simply what the context of-- 18:41 not contradicting but simply talking about 18:42 two separate settings. 18:44 And the reality of it is as Jesus said, 18:47 if they do these things speaking of himself, 18:49 if they do these things that is persecute the green tree 18:53 that Jesus represents, what will they do to the tree 18:56 that doesn't bear fruit that represents us? 18:59 So that's-- simply the context 19:01 of both of these stories are different. 19:03 But the Christian will at some point 19:05 or the other be persecuted in one way, 19:08 like today for example, 19:10 John, let's look at the context of the modern world 19:11 today in which we live. 19:13 It seems like when the Christian takes a stand, 19:16 if a Christian says, I don't believe 19:18 in whatever the political issue 19:22 is it seems as though in the world, 19:24 the Christian is the one that's marked and derided 19:28 and persecuted and looked down on 19:30 because they take a moral stand. 19:33 In a very immoral society, 19:34 the Christian seems to be the one that's out of step. 19:37 So they do to some degree become the object of persecution. 19:41 However, in the community of believers 19:43 that same Christian goes home to his own neighborhood 19:45 or her neighborhood and they continue 19:47 to keep their lawn well, 19:49 be kind to the neighbors, nothing is gonna happen to them. 19:53 But simply the object of standing 19:55 for Christ will bring about persecution. 19:58 But living a godly life on a day by day basis 20:01 will cause you to live a life that is a good life. 20:04 That's where the church was headed in that day of Paul. 20:07 Anyway it was headed toward a very difficult 20:09 time of persecution. That's right. 20:11 Pagan Rome was really living a heavy degree 20:13 of not just insult and verbal abuse 20:19 but it began to be very shortly 20:21 right around Paul's time, a little after that 20:23 heavy physical to the point where Christians 20:26 were murdered by the hundreds 20:27 in the Coliseum and other things. 20:29 So Paul was helping the church understand 20:32 that together we will experience this kind of thing 20:34 as we live for Christ. 20:36 But individually, John, I think you'd a very good application 20:39 made there when you live right for God, 20:41 when you live a good life, 20:42 people just, they'll leave you alone. 20:44 They won't bother you. 20:45 They'll see you in fact as someone that's very upright 20:47 and they can trust. That's right. 20:48 And Christians have a very beautiful place to stand. 20:52 Christianity yes, the ultimate benefit 20:56 of Christianity is eternal life. 20:58 But the world has been a continual benefactor 21:02 from Christians being in this world. 21:04 People that are moral, people that are loving kind, 21:07 compassionate people that believe in service to others. 21:10 People that believe in bearing one another's burdens 21:13 at least that's what a Christian should be. 21:16 And, yes, there's a great benefit 21:18 to living a Christian life. 21:19 Truly, there's a lot of peace. 21:21 Great peace have they that love the law 21:22 and nothing shall cause them to stumble 21:24 and nothing shall offend them. 21:26 And--but, you know, ultimately it will come to the place 21:30 where it did in the past, persecution will arise 21:32 because the world will get so out of step with Christ 21:35 that they'll want to eradicate all who tend to live a life 21:41 that speaks against the road that they've have chosen. 21:44 And you mentioned something, John. 21:46 It's really interesting that you brought that up 21:47 because in the days of Paul they'll were between 21:50 the Church of Ephesus and the Church of Smyrna. 21:52 And when you look at Revelation, 21:54 the Church of Ephesus is the church that the first love, 21:57 the most glorious time of the church just budding. 22:00 They began to vein under the severity of persecution. 22:03 They began to lose their first love. 22:06 And then they got to Smyrna where it says, 22:08 I know your works tribulation and poverty 22:11 and so tribulation began to come in as Roman Emperor 22:15 Diocletian from 303 to 313 A.D began to persecute 22:19 and slaughter Christians that refused to step in line 22:22 with what Rome had established as the norm. Yeah. 22:25 That's what happened today. 22:26 There's a norm that the Christian doesn't accept 22:28 and in the political arena of today, 22:30 you know, with all these issues that are coming up 22:31 in political circles, the Christian 22:33 doesn't buy into it and they become 22:35 an object of derision and mockery. That's all right. 22:41 The retirement plan is out of this world. 22:43 What do you have? What more do you have for us? 22:45 I've got another question here. 22:46 It's in regard to Daniel Chapter 2 22:49 and the image that the king, 22:52 King Nebuchadnezzar dreamed about. 22:55 It says in the interpretation of Daniel 2 verses 31 to 45 22:59 the image of the head of globe, breast in arms of silver, 23:03 his belly in size of brass, his legs of iron, 23:06 his feet of iron and clay. 23:07 And then talks about, you know, defines the different kingdoms, 23:10 the head is the one king representing Babylon, 23:13 the arms were the two kingdoms Medo-Persia, 23:16 the belly are--and thighs are one kingdom of Greece. 23:20 Two legs of iron it says, one kingdom Rome, 23:23 feet of iron and clay being ten kingdoms and pointing out 23:27 specifically that they were ten toes to those feet. 23:30 If the head equals one kingdom, the arms represent two kingdoms, 23:34 belly one kingdom, then why are two legs 23:38 represented as one kingdom? 23:40 And the ten toes represented as ten kingdoms? 23:44 This seems inconsistent to me. 23:47 And then anyway just kind of, how do we answer this? 23:52 It seems to be another one of those apparent 23:54 contradictions or problems with scripture. 23:57 Well, there is something that is being mingled here 23:59 on this prophecy. 24:01 We know that Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 really go together. 24:06 They help to paint a very detailed 24:07 picture of these kingdoms. 24:10 What is represented by the medals 24:12 of the various parts of that image are represented 24:15 again by various or different beasts 24:17 in Daniel Chapter 7. That's right. 24:20 You don't find in Daniel Chapter 2, 24:22 I can't, so maybe you can help me find that, 24:25 that they were ten toes. 24:27 Now we know there were ten toes 24:28 'cause people have ten toes. 24:30 But it just says that they were toes 24:32 just like it says that they were legs. 24:35 We don't find two legs. Right. Ten toes. 24:39 So in Daniel 2 specifically we're talking about 24:43 legs and feet, okay. 24:46 You don't really get to specifics about these things 24:49 until you get to Daniel 7. 24:51 Daniel 7 speaks of legs 24:53 and in fact again doesn't say two legs, it just says legs. 24:57 And then you get to the ten horns 25:00 that were on the kingdom. 25:01 So that's where you start getting the ten 25:03 and I think we have over the years, 25:04 John, put the ten horns 25:07 ten with the toes being ten. Right. 25:10 And we would commonly refer to the feet 25:12 that have ten toes as being the ten kingdoms. Right. 25:15 It's kind of--it matches, it fits very well. 25:18 And I don't have a problem with that interpretation at all. 25:20 But the Bible isn't telling us two legs. 25:23 It's simply saying legs. 25:25 Now we know there are two because everybody has two legs. 25:28 This image was clearly an image of a man. Okay? 25:32 So don't look so carefully for the minutia 25:36 in trying to get every interpretation for everything 25:38 unless it's specifically saying something 25:41 that it wants you to have an interpretation for. 25:44 So if you can find two legs, 25:47 then I would say the argument is true. 25:49 We need to find two aspects of the kingdom of Rome 25:51 but you don't. These are legs of iron. 25:53 Rome is one kingdom clearly in Daniel 7 25:56 and the ten horns represent the ten aspects 25:59 that that kingdom divided into 26:02 during the fall of the Roman Empire. 26:04 So anyway that's the way I see it. 26:06 It sounds like maybe there might be 26:08 a little issue there but there absolutely is not. 26:11 That's right. Bible is consistent. 26:13 And, you know, when these visions were given, 26:14 you know, you find first of all Nebuchadnezzar has given 26:18 the overall view because God has spoken to Nebuchadnezzar 26:21 directly about his kingdom in Daniel Chapter 2. 26:24 Nebuchadnezzar has this dream. 26:27 Daniel interprets the dream because God gives him 26:29 understanding of the vision. And makes it very, very clear. 26:31 and the primary focus of Daniel 2 26:34 is saying to Nebuchadnezzar, 26:35 your kingdom is not gonna be around all the time. 26:38 There's gonna be a progression of kingdoms on the earth, 26:40 major kingdoms, Babylon is yours the head of gold. 26:44 And, as you know, the story Nebuchadnezzar 26:45 desired to live a much longer and keep his existing kingdom 26:49 permanently at the top of the realm of authority 26:52 but after that was a silver kingdom 26:54 then a bronze kingdom. 26:56 And, you know, if that were the only passes 26:58 but when you read Daniel 7, you go to Daniel 8 also, 27:01 you also Daniel 6 are the books 27:03 that begin to identify the components. 27:05 So when you say arms, you know, 27:08 the arms, it talks about the two kingdoms. 27:13 Medo-Persia, Medo and Persia. Medes and Persians. 27:17 So it talks about them in the context of the two. 27:19 That's exactly how 27:21 the progression of history unfolds. 27:23 So you clearly see that the one thing 27:25 that shows you there's a progression here 27:27 is because when the image is given 27:29 with the legs of iron and feet of iron and clay, 27:32 you have ten toes, 27:35 you also have ten horns which are ten kings, 27:37 showing the progression in Daniel 7 27:42 is there's now a removal of some of these horns 27:45 and a little horn comes into it. 27:47 So you don't have the image 27:49 of eventually seven toes. You see. 27:52 So there's once again showing the progression 27:54 as it is in your-- 27:56 this is what I'm showing you Nebuchadnezzar 27:57 and I'm gonna show Daniel this vision again 27:59 with the progression as it continues to unfold in history. 28:02 And Daniel follows a repeat and enlarged-- Exactly. 28:07 Perspective of prophecy here. 28:09 So what you read in Daniel 2 is gonna be further detailed 28:13 in Daniel 7 and in Daniel 8, and Daniel 9, 28:16 and you get all the progression here, 28:18 the repeating and the enlarging of that prophecy, 28:20 prophecy that occurs from just after Daniel's time 28:23 all the way down to the end of time. That's right. 28:25 And so remembering that also helps to see that, 28:28 you know, you're not covering the same aspects. 28:30 It's a broader perspective initially Daniel 2. 28:32 And then you're getting more detailed as you along. 28:34 And what's so wonderful about that 28:36 is because you don't need to know all the things 28:37 that don't pertain to your day. 28:38 The Lord says that in essence to Nebuchadnezzar, 28:41 I want to find a way to save you 28:42 and your pride right now is the big issue. 28:44 That was the whole thing within you. 28:45 You're gold and you think a whole lot about yourself 28:48 and I got to work with you and bring you down 28:49 to where you need to be 28:51 and eventually if you listen to my voice 28:53 and the last words of that king 28:54 was he extolled and exalted the God of heaven. 28:57 So I believe that Nebuchadnezzar was eventually saved. 29:00 He will be in the kingdom of the saved. 29:02 But then even as Daniel got more understanding 29:05 of the visions of what God had given to him, 29:07 he wanted to know more. 29:08 But God said, "It's not for your day. 29:10 Just write it down, seal it up 29:13 and at the time of the end more understanding will come." 29:16 And that's exactly how prophecy is a continually 29:19 unfolding artichoke of understanding, 29:22 just the top leaves for Daniel's day, 29:24 the heart of it for our day. 29:26 Anyway I think we've covered our time for questions. 29:28 We'll cover some more in upcoming programs. 29:30 However, if you have any questions 29:32 you like to send to us, 29:33 any comments you like to email us, 29:35 send them to housecalls@3abn.org, 29:38 that's housecalls@3abn.org. 29:41 And we surely appreciate everything you do 29:43 to keep this program going and growing. 29:46 And if you don't have email, some people don't, 29:50 you can send good old stamp and an envelop 29:53 to PO Box 220, West Frankfort, Illinois, 62896, 29:57 attention House Calls, thank you so much. 30:01 Now, John, lead in to our study for today okay, Babylon. 30:04 Big, huge, massive-- Spiritual Babylon. 30:06 Yes, huge massive topic. 30:10 You know, I think, we will talk-- 30:11 we'll start with Revelation 17. Okay. 30:14 Because clearly that's where Babylon is mentioned 30:16 in the context of last day prophecy. 30:19 That's right. Of end time prophecy. 30:21 What we see is a parallel rising 30:22 to oppose the saints of the end of time. 30:24 We'll start there and then we start to unfold it's meaning 30:28 through other parts of scripture 30:29 because I think it's one of the most distorted perspectives 30:33 that even within Christianity itself that must be clarified 30:39 if we're gonna understand prophecy correctly. 30:41 Who does spiritual Babylon represent? 30:43 And there are so many different views 30:45 and it's hard to even put them on one paper 30:49 how many different views there are of that. 30:51 But if we stick to some very basic important principles, 30:54 we will be able to unfold and see what spiritual Babylon 30:56 can represent or does represent. 30:58 And what it cannot represent 31:00 because of the basic rules of prophetic interpretation 31:04 and how the Bible interprets itself. 31:06 Yeah, this is a great topic, you know why, 31:08 because a lot of people in their communities of faith, 31:11 those churches that really don't make 31:13 a great emphasis in Revelation, 31:15 who don't talk very much about Revelation. 31:17 When you don't understand this particular book, 31:19 Babylon can mean all kinds of things 31:21 and it takes on a shadow of what it really could mean 31:25 when the substance is really contained in the Bible. 31:28 The Bible says a lot. 31:29 You don't have to guess about Revelation. 31:31 You don't have to guess about what Babylon means. 31:33 And so to understand the last part of the picture 31:37 that Revelation 17 gives us beautifully 31:39 and then Revelation 18 shows us 31:41 it's a dissolution and it's crumbling. 31:43 We've got to go through the Bible. 31:45 I'm glad, John, would you like to start with verse 1 31:48 and just built on that? 31:49 Let's just start with-- let's read verse 1 through 6. 31:53 And we'll go through that, okay. 31:54 And then we'll-- we won't necessarily break down 31:57 each aspect of that but then we'll start 31:58 to unfold spiritual Babylon. 32:00 So you see where it comes into play. 32:01 I'll go ahead and read it for you. 32:02 Sure, go for it. 32:04 "Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls 32:08 came and talked with me, saying to me, 32:10 Come, I will show you 32:12 the judgment of the great harlot 32:13 who sits on many waters. 32:15 With whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, 32:19 and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk 32:21 with the wine of her fornication. 32:23 So he carried me away in the Spirit 32:25 into the wilderness. 32:27 And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast 32:30 which was full of names of blasphemy, 32:32 having seven heads and ten horns. 32:35 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, 32:38 and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, 32:41 having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations 32:43 and the filthiness of her fornication. 32:46 And on her head was a name written, 32:48 mystery, Babylon the great, 32:51 the mother of harlots 32:52 and the abominations of the earth. 32:54 I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints 32:58 and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. 33:00 And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. 33:04 Wow. There's so much here. 33:07 And we probably should spend some time 33:09 on different aspects of this. 33:11 But, I think, maybe let's-- 33:13 before we break that down, 33:14 let's get the concept of Babylon kind of out there 33:18 really let's understand Babylon 33:20 and what it's referring to first. All right. 33:22 And for that I think we've got to go back to Genesis 33:24 to see where Babylon began from the very beginning. 33:29 As we are doing that, John, 33:31 gohead and see if we can get some-- 33:33 a launching point there. Okay. 33:35 With the Tower of Babel and we know where we're going. 33:38 But let me just say this 33:41 there are two kinds of interpretation of prophecy. 33:44 There's what the Bible refers to as a private interpretation. 33:49 Let me give you an example of a private interpretation 33:51 and it doesn't paint that in a good light. 33:53 Basically, private interpretation 33:56 is an interpretation that is done without scripture. 33:59 It's an interpretation that when you read something 34:02 like we just read your next step might be 34:05 to go to the newspapers or to go to some history books 34:08 and find maybe what kind of entity 34:11 or what kind of thing might fit the description of Babylon 34:15 and then you start saying, "Well, I believe, 34:17 it pertains to this or, I believe, it pertains to this." 34:19 And then you get lots of opinions. 34:21 Those are private interpretations. 34:23 What would not be a private interpretation or-- 34:26 instead would be a biblical interpretation 34:28 would be to allow the Bible to interpret itself. 34:31 What does the Bible say 34:33 that the characteristics of Babylon represent? 34:36 So once we define those characteristics of Babylon, 34:40 we define the fact that it is a woman 34:43 and find out what a woman represents 34:45 and do our homework in that regard. 34:47 Then we can start to see a list of what Babylon could be 34:51 and it'll help us find and determine 34:54 eventually then what it actually is. 34:56 But the Bible is driving the process. 34:58 So that's what we're gonna do now. 35:00 Right because you have to go back-- 35:02 okay, contain yourself. 35:05 This is a beautiful unfolding of the Bible's understanding. 35:10 We are living in the days of spiritual Babylon. 35:13 I want to just say that 35:15 and then I'm going to get on that diving board 35:17 and I'm gonna just spring myself 35:19 all the way back to the formation of Babylon. 35:23 After the flood, God made a promise to Noah 35:27 and all of the inhabitants of the earth, 35:29 He would never ever destroy the world by a flood again. 35:33 But for whatever reason distrust continued to reign 35:37 in the hearts of those who came out of the ark 35:38 Ham, Shem and Japheth. 35:41 They had children and this distrust 35:44 continued to manifest itself in-- 35:47 well, if God doesn't save us 35:50 the next time this flood happens, 35:52 we've got to find our own means of salvation. 35:55 We've got to build something tall enough 35:59 that when the flood comes, we'll be so high up, 36:02 we'll be beyond the reach 36:03 of destroying waters of the flood. 36:06 So they decided. 36:07 And let me just go ahead and give you this 36:09 in Genesis 10, starting with verse 6, 36:13 "The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Phut, and Canaan." 36:16 Goes down the list and it continues in verse 8 36:19 "Cush begat Nimrod, and he began to be 36:22 a mighty one of the earth." 36:25 And verse 10 says-- and verse 11 says, 36:27 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. 36:30 Therefore, it is said, 36:32 like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord. 36:35 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel. 36:39 So when you think of the word Babel-- 36:42 it's actually said Babel. That's really the Babylon. 36:46 We don't say Babalon but it's actually the word Babel 36:49 and if you think of Babel, 36:51 when you follow the original word it's what babies do. 36:54 You don't know what they're saying. 36:57 It's Babel, what is he saying? 37:00 And when people talk too long, when people talk too fast, 37:03 he's just babbling. He's just babbling. 37:05 You know, and the Bible says avoid vain babbling, 37:08 that means, you know, when people say 37:10 What you say, that say, 37:11 blah-blah-blah, blah-blah-blah, babbling. 37:14 So what's happening one of the first symbols 37:16 of the introduction of Babalon or Babylon is Babel. 37:21 What actually happened now? Let's go to Chapter 11. 37:24 For a direct connection, the word Babylon is Babel. 37:28 The word Babylon in the Bible is Babel. 37:30 Exactly and what the people-- 37:32 and when you see here in Chapter 11 37:35 you'll see one of the first signs of Babylon 37:37 as they just kept babbling on Babylon. 37:42 And-- but let's just look at that. 37:43 That's not necessarily context but you'll see 37:46 that's one of the first things that happened 37:48 in the formation of this tower of distrust. 37:52 And it's the first piece 37:53 in the creation of this nation of Babylon. 37:57 That's right. That's right. 37:58 It's the ancient seed of Babylon is Babel 38:01 and what happened at the tower of Babel, Okay? 38:03 So, yes, it represents confusion and babbling on 38:06 and things like that but it is the first inception, 38:08 the beginning of Babylon, 38:10 which became Neo-Babylon in Nebuchadnezzar's day. 38:13 You want to read Chapter 11? 38:15 Since I just was kind of leading into-- 38:16 Yeah, I'm happy too. You want me to start with 1? 38:19 "Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. 38:22 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, 38:26 that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, 38:28 and they dwelt there. 38:31 Then they said to one another, 38:33 "Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly." 38:36 They had brick for stone, 38:38 and they had asphalt for mortar. 38:40 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, 38:43 and a tower whose top is in the heavens. 38:46 Let us make a name for ourselves, 38:49 lest we be scattered abroad 38:50 over the face of the whole earth." 38:52 I want to pause there. Right. 38:54 Because the first thing we notice here is that, 38:57 what you were saying there, 38:59 John, that mankind is taking the initiative 39:01 to build for themselves-- That's right. 39:03 To do for themselves not to rely 39:05 and trust on what God wanted to do for them. 39:08 So it says, let us build ourselves a city 39:11 and then it says let us make a name for ourselves. 39:16 That name is Babel. That's right. Confusion. 39:21 You'll find at the root of everything 39:22 that has to connect to Babylon, 39:24 there is our own. It's not Christ's. 39:28 It's not what He gives us but it's our own. Isaiah 4:1. 39:31 We will eat our own bread, wear our own apparel. 39:35 Only let us be called by Your name 39:37 to take away our reproach. 39:39 See we don't want everything. We just want your name. 39:42 And one of the first symbols of Babylon today you'll find is 39:46 we have to keep in mind they came out 39:48 from among a people that were saved through the flood. 39:51 So one of the first things you have 39:53 to keep in mind is Babylon, 39:56 the reason why it's confusion is because 39:58 when people looked at what happened after the flood, 40:01 they're saying this is confusing. 40:04 Isn't that the son of the one 40:06 that was just saved through the flood? 40:08 Isn't that the one, isn't that the son of one 40:11 that God just saved? 40:12 And so there's a confusion that exists there. 40:15 His city is a place of confusion. 40:16 But the reason why confusion is so much connected to Babylon 40:20 is what's gonna happen next. 40:21 Okay, you want to continue the story? 40:23 Yeah, and I want to add this one aspect, 40:25 if you think about the third commandment 40:26 taking the name of the Lord in vain-- That's right. 40:28 You have that very thing is take away our reproach Lord, 40:32 but let us use your name. 40:34 Or that the name takes away our reproach 40:36 for being what we are. 40:38 That is what the third commandment is addressing. 40:40 It's not just cursing. No. 40:42 It's one that takes upon the name 40:43 of himself or herself Christian 40:46 and then lives entirely opposite to the life of Christ 40:49 in what he would and the way he would live. 40:52 And so anyway so this is all the pieces. 40:55 This is the initial part to understanding Babylon. 40:57 It is very important. 40:59 We're looking for a people who don't mind 41:01 the name of Christ but they don't want to live 41:04 and really be in all aspects like Christ. 41:07 Right, but this is the Lego pieces of Babylon. 41:09 We'll see the formation of the city 41:10 when it comes to foration but go ahead. 41:12 Okay verse 5, is that we're at? 41:14 Yeah, "But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower 41:18 which the sons of men had built. 41:20 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one 41:23 and they all have one language, 41:25 and this is what they began to do. 41:28 Now nothing that they propose 41:29 to do will be withheld from them. 41:32 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, 41:37 that they may not understand one another's speech. 41:39 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there 41:42 over the face of the whole earth, 41:44 and they ceased building the city. 41:46 Therefore, its name is called Babel, 41:48 because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth, 41:52 and from there the Lord scattered them 41:54 abroad over the face of all the earth." 41:56 So one of the first signs, 41:58 if you're listening to that you'll see. 42:00 Wow! That's interesting, 42:01 one of the first check marks in the formation of Babylon 42:08 is the confusion of languages. 42:11 That's what came out of the distrust of God. 42:14 That's what came out of building 42:15 ones own platform of righteousness. 42:18 Ones own foundation of salvation, 42:20 not from God, but what did he do? 42:23 Confused the languages. 42:26 Now does that still exist today? 42:28 If you look at spiritual Babylon, 42:31 the reason why we use the word spiritual 42:32 is because Babylon had its inroads. 42:34 It affected the people of God. 42:36 As we continue unfolding the story, 42:38 we're gonna see the effect of Babylon 42:41 on the people of God. 42:42 And so we're gonna go to some of the major components 42:45 and when you look at what 42:47 the Bible leads us into right here, 42:48 I want to go to the Book of Daniel 42:51 because we see Babylon here. 42:53 Babylon is a great and powerful kingdom 42:55 that reigns in the earth. 42:57 And matter of fact, if you follow history, 42:58 it's the greatest city in antiquity. 43:01 There was no city ever like it. 43:02 That's why Revelation when it comes down to it says, 43:04 that great city because she made all nations. 43:08 Babylon had a position that when 43:11 Babylon's leadership spoke, all nations listened. 43:13 So you wanna dive into the Book of Daniel. 43:16 We're going through some of the prophets 43:18 but we're gonna go to the Book of Daniel. 43:20 Anything, John, as we're turning there? 43:22 No. It's good. 43:23 Let's go to Daniel. Let's go to Daniel. 43:24 And Daniel is the place where we look next. 43:30 Now I think Daniel 4 gives us a little bit of a concept 43:33 of how Daniel was built, how Babylon was built. 43:37 One of the things I want to connect first that we follow 43:39 because remember we read in Genesis now 43:42 the house of Shinar, the land of Shinar. 43:46 But now what you're gonna see 43:47 to connect it because people will say, 43:49 well, what does that have to do with Babylon? 43:50 Well, you're gonna see this very same word come up 43:53 again as we enter into the Book of Daniel. 43:56 Daniel Chapter 1, but then you'll see 43:59 the formation of the name started with Babel 44:01 but now it's in full city Babylon 44:03 and you'll still see in the same location 44:06 there was the land of Shinar 44:08 but now notice what the Bible says 44:10 in verse 1 and 2 of Daniel Chapter 1. 44:13 "In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim, king of Judah, 44:16 Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, 44:19 came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 44:22 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim, king of Judah into his hands, 44:27 with some of the articles of the house of God, 44:31 which he carried into the land of Shinar 44:34 to the house of his god and he brought the articles 44:38 into the treasury house of his god." 44:41 There is Shinar. In Genesis, the land of Shinar. 44:44 Now once again you see the land of Shinar, 44:48 where the house of their god's were located. 44:50 So it's connecting you to the tower of Babel, 44:53 the city of Babylon. Right. 44:55 Same location. Same location, exactly. 44:57 But the other thing you wanna also deduce from this 45:02 is the fact that and this you cannot miss this, 45:05 this is so powerful. 45:07 Understanding this next point is gonna show you 45:09 why there's a message in Revelation 18 verse 1-4. 45:12 The message there and we'll just touch on this 45:14 and reiterate this later on 45:15 when we build the story completely. 45:17 There's a message there that simply says this, 45:19 speaking about Babylon before it fell, 45:22 come out of her my people. 45:25 The Bible is gonna show you here, 45:27 what's one of the first things that happened here. 45:29 The king of Babylon went to Jerusalem, 45:32 the city of peace and took God's people captive, 45:36 in other words into slavery, into the land of Babylon. 45:42 Now the reason why they went there 45:43 is not because God wanted them to go there 45:46 but because of the way they began to practice. 45:49 The Lord was in essence saying, 45:50 you can't live like Babylonians in the city of Jerusalem. 45:54 If you're gonna live like Babylonians in disobedience, 45:57 you can live in the land of disobedience 45:59 not in the land of peace 46:01 that represents the holy place of God. 46:03 So we took them out of Jerusalem 46:06 to the land of Babylon and what did he do? 46:09 They were taken captive. 46:11 Third thing I think, 46:12 third thing is Babylon is a place 46:14 where the people of God are being held captive. 46:17 Spiritual Babylon is a place of captivity 46:19 for the true people of God. 46:21 Let's explain, John, here the spiritual Babylon, 46:23 we've used it several times. Right. 46:25 Literal Babylon would be what we're reading about in Daniel. 46:28 That started with a tower of Babel in Genesis 46:31 that is literal Babylon and actual city that exist. 46:35 We refer to Babylon in Revelation as spiritual Babylon 46:39 because it was the name given to a woman. 46:44 So it's not a city. Right. 46:46 Okay, this is an important thing to remember 46:48 because many people are looking for actual Babylon. 46:51 There was this whole era about 12 years ago, 46:55 especially it rose up in as Iraq 46:59 became a real enemy of the U.S. 47:02 and as we invaded Iraq for the first time 47:05 and then later on another time and people were thinking, 47:10 "Okay, now look, Babylon is gonna rise 47:12 because that's where the actual literal city 47:14 that it represents is based, that's where it was." 47:18 So we're gonna see Iraq is now the focus of this prophecy. 47:22 And we saw a whole bunch of teachings 47:23 come out as a result of that. 47:26 But that is private interpretation 47:28 because the Bible in the Book of Revelation is saying 47:30 that the Babylon the great is a woman. 47:35 It's the name given to the woman who has children, 47:38 who has daughters, and they are harlots. 47:42 So there're some definitions being given here 47:44 in regard to Babylon in the Book of Revelation 47:46 that are not representing a city 47:49 which is why we're calling it 47:50 spiritual Babylon not literal Babylon. 47:53 What you have to do when you're studying prophecy 47:56 is you look at the New Testament and what it represents 47:59 say in Revelation and you go back to the literal 48:02 meaning of that to understand spiritually 48:04 what it represents. Right. 48:05 So what is literal in the Old Testament 48:07 becomes your spiritual application in the New Testament 48:10 and this is the principle that we're following here 48:13 in Revelation Chapter 17. Right. 48:16 So that's to give you 48:17 a definition of spiritual Babylon, 48:18 not a total definition just as to where we are going, 48:21 why we're using that term. 48:22 And when you think about that, taking that to the next level, 48:26 when you think about what the Lord says 48:29 about Babylon this actual city. 48:31 It was a place that was destroyed 48:35 and it was not inhabited again. It was not inhabited again. 48:38 As matter of fact, Isaiah 13:19 says it very carefully here. 48:42 Isaiah 13:19 says, And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, 48:49 the beauty of the Chaldeans' pride, 48:53 will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." 48:58 And it talks about how it will be a place of jackals, 49:01 and the snakes and the scorpions will be there 49:05 it will never be built up again. 49:06 So when people try to apply Babylon to Iraq, 49:09 it's not the same thing 49:11 because the Babylon that God brought down 49:13 was never ever rebuilt again. That's right. 49:16 It was the kingdom that had only a certain 49:17 determined period of time and will pass of the scene 49:21 and never will be restored again. 49:23 As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, 49:27 does not exist again today. 49:29 Nor can it just simply apply to Iraq? 49:30 No, It cannot. 49:32 Because it doesn't apply to a nation. 49:33 It is represented by a woman. 49:35 And you know what--and, John, just a build off of that, 49:38 that's why it's so important to understand 49:39 the principle of interpretation. 49:41 When you follow the historicist principle of interpretation 49:44 you don't find Babylon existing 49:45 in the last days again in the literal sense. 49:48 You have to say, 49:49 hey, now that literal Babylon is past off the scene, 49:52 this has to be a spiritual application 49:54 or more specifically a prophetic application 49:57 which has the spiritual connection to it. 50:00 Right. So we're in Daniel one, 50:02 and we established the second aspect of it. 50:05 The thing-Daniel becomes the place 50:07 where the people of God are held captive, 50:09 as is in the case here in Daniel. 50:11 Daniel and Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 50:14 which are also known as Shadrach, Meshach, 50:17 and Abednego are taken as prisoners. 50:20 And also the third thing about Babylon 50:22 you'll find if you read Daniel Chapter 1, Babylon is the place 50:25 where the people of God are defiled 50:27 because the king tried to defile them with his meat 50:31 and his food, and his drink. Right. 50:32 So in essence there's the food and the meat 50:34 and the way of life in Babylon is not in harmony 50:37 with the way of life in Jerusalem. Right. 50:39 Completely out of harmony. Yeah. 50:41 Okay. Anything else you want to point up 50:43 before we go to the third application? 50:45 No, let's go to the third application. Let's shift. 50:47 Okay, now what I also want to point out 50:51 is the fall of literal Babylon. All right? 50:54 We're going to the major prophecies here. 50:58 Because now when Nebuchadnezzar died, 51:01 this wonderful city was taken over 51:04 by his grandson Belteshazzar, and he was the young man 51:11 who didn't understand and trust, all that was communicated to him 51:17 by the life of his grandfather. 51:19 The Bible uses the word father, but it was not father. 51:23 It was primarily grandfather. 51:25 And the night that this-I said Belteshazzar, I mean, Belshazzar 51:28 because Belshazzar was Daniel's Babylonia name. 51:32 When you go to Daniel Chapter 5, 51:35 you'll find as Daniel 1 pointed out, 51:37 some of the golden vessels of God 51:40 were brought into the land of Shinar 51:43 in the house of his god. 51:45 So they had these golden vessels, 51:46 which were primarily holy unto the Lord, 51:49 use for holy ceremonies in Jerusalem. 51:52 As the story goes on just before Babylon falls, 51:55 you find that Belshazzar has a feast 51:58 and he invites about 10,000 guests. 52:02 And the atmosphere is so frenzied that he decides 52:06 that he's gonna step over the line and do what God 52:10 does not allow anyone to do. 52:13 Okay, so what can we conclude out of that? 52:16 Out of the story here, what other aspect can we find, 52:19 John, about Babylon in its way of life? 52:21 Well, it says in verse 3 of Daniel 5, 52:24 "They brought the gold vessels that had been taken 52:26 from the temple of the house of God 52:29 which had been in Jerusalem, and the king and his lords, 52:31 his wives, and his concubines drank from them. 52:33 They drank wine, and they praised the gods 52:36 of gold and silver, bronze and iron, wood and stone." 52:39 They took the things of God and they began to use them 52:42 in their own ceremonies, 52:44 in their own pagan forms of worship. 52:46 And so what you have here is a mingling 52:48 of paganism with the things 52:50 that represent the God of heaven. 52:51 That's right. And so Babylon and part of its downfall 52:56 was the fact that it did that. 52:58 It didn't consider the sacred things of God as being sacred. 53:01 That's right. It didn't consider the things, 53:03 the clean things that God represented as being clean 53:05 but everything was clean, everything goes. 53:09 And so you find within this spiritual Babylon 53:12 now not just what we said earlier 53:14 them taking on the name of God to take away 53:16 their reproach or to have the system of confusing, 53:20 confused languages using words and things 53:23 that creates confusión and I would call 53:25 that a reference to more of confusing teachings. 53:28 That's right. Here you're having the vessels themselves. 53:31 The things that appeared to be God, 53:33 it looks like the temple things that are-should be used 53:36 in the worship of God but instead 53:38 it's being worshiped-or used in the worship of pagan forms 53:41 of idolatry and other things. 53:43 So these are the various aspects we're finding 53:46 that were part of Babylon in its downfall. 53:50 And spiritual Babylon has those very same aspects today. 53:53 That's right. And so that's the part 53:54 that we're finding here, a mingling of God's system, 53:59 His things, His teachings- His holy things. 54:02 His holy things with very pagan things, 54:05 Idol worship and other things that had come into the church. 54:08 We know shortly after the first century, 54:12 two centuries after Christ ascensión. 54:14 And in fact Paul referred to many of those things 54:18 has already that inequity, already had begun 54:20 to take place during his days. 54:21 So anyway, so we're starting to kind of unfold 54:24 here and I think in the next program 54:25 when we get to a point where we'll be able to show 54:28 what we're talking about here 54:29 in regard to spiritual Babylon. 54:31 But we're already seeing the elements of it here right now. 54:34 One of the ones that-one of the huge ones 54:35 that I'd jumped over and I want to go back 54:38 to very, very quickly, is in Daniel Chapter 3 54:40 because this is a huge one today. 54:42 Now just to put it in context, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, 54:48 and Azariah they would not consciously worship 54:51 any of the Babylonian gods. 54:53 As a matter of fact, they were quite a few run-ins. 54:55 But this one that's talked about in Daniel Chapter 3 54:57 is one that's most significant because when Nebuchadnezzar 55:01 made a valiant attempt to immortalize his kingdom, 55:04 he built an image of gold, 90 feet high and 9 feet wide. 55:12 And he said that he wanted all nations, 55:14 all representatives of all nations gather 55:17 there in the plain of Dura to bow down and worship. 55:22 But it was really interesting, John, 55:24 how he wanted to attempt this worship. 55:26 He used music to cause people to worship a false god. 55:33 He used music to introduce a false sense of worship. 55:39 A false method of worship to people that would not worship. 55:45 So he said well, when the music is played 55:48 and you'll find this in Daniel Chapter 3. 55:51 Daniel Chapter 3 verse 5, "At the time you hear the sound 55:56 of the horn, the flute, the psaltery, the symphony 56:00 with all kinds of music, you shall fall down, 56:03 worship the golden image 56:04 that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up." 56:07 Now what you have to get here is King Nebuchadnezzar 56:09 was not a religious man. 56:11 He was a political leader with religion. 56:14 So it's a religio-political system, 56:16 driven to force worship that does not belong 56:22 to the images that they established. 56:24 So the other thing that comes out in Babylon, you'll see this. 56:26 Babylon has a false system of worship. 56:29 Babylon has an image of worship that represents the god's 56:33 that are connected to that particular image. 56:36 And then the other thing we have to keep in mind 56:39 through much of the music incorporated nowadays, 56:42 there's a worship that has entered the church, 56:45 that does not connect us to the worship of the true God. 56:48 So we have to be very, very careful with the way 56:50 that music is being used sometimes, 56:52 to lead people to worship a false god. 56:54 I think next time we're gonna start 56:56 transitioning into who this woman is. 56:58 It is the big key part that helps us 57:00 understand today what spiritual Babylon is. 57:03 And then it will start to make sense 57:04 why we're referring to worship and music and other things 57:08 that are happening within spiritual Babylon 57:11 and what that actually represents today. 57:14 What is it? That's right. 57:16 And so we'll get to that. 57:17 Yeah, three sons 57:19 in the beginning Ham, Shem and Japheth, 57:21 three Hebrews Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego 57:25 and three messages of the Three Angels. 57:27 We'll comeback and continue this on another program 57:29 but until we see you again, may the Lord bless 57:31 your life as you walk with Him. |
Revised 2014-12-17