Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Brian Shaul, David Allen
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00089A
00:11 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery, I'm Cheri your
00:13 host and today we're going to talk about some of the core
00:16 issues of trust, how to gain that again,
00:18 how to reconnect with people.
00:20 I have a couple friends with me they're going to share
00:23 their testimonies and it is amazing you have to join us
00:25 today, come on into the café.
00:56 Hello, you know this last year or so we have been
01:00 traveling a ton and well I guess we've been traveling a
01:04 ton since we started this whole journey with recovery.
01:08 We've been to Russia and Australia and New Zealand.
01:11 I want to say hi to all our friends out there, I know
01:14 that you are watching, I know you are working in your
01:18 own recovery and this season is just so exciting for me.
01:22 Talking about the underlying issues, like for a while
01:26 I talked about my issues being heroin and all that
01:29 stuff not realizing what my core issues were.
01:33 I never learned how to trust anyone, to love anyone.
01:37 I never let people in and never really went into anybody
01:40 else's life because I just didn't know how to do that.
01:43 I was so damaged in those areas and today it is going to
01:46 be exciting to cover those.
01:47 But before we start I would like to, there are people
01:50 saying Cheri I couldn't even imagine you doing a program
01:53 like this because you are so flaky, and they are right.
01:55 It is unbelievable, I am.
01:57 I want to show you how they keep me in line here so I want
02:02 to bring up our floor director, Ben will you come up?
02:06 Just to get a visual of who you are.
02:12 So if I get out of line too much they just arrest me.
02:16 I just get in trouble and then I know you are an
02:21 incredible floor director for one.
02:23 I just have to say you have blessed us, but on the side
02:26 you're a police officer. - yes.
02:29 So what is really funny about that to me is that this is
02:32 the first time I've seen you in uniform and we
02:34 worked together for years. - yes, yes!
02:37 So I'm just going to be saying yes, yes to you on
02:39 everything now, thanks.
02:42 Today's program we are going to be talking about those
02:45 core issues, those underlying issues.
02:47 What is really funny when I show you the floor director
02:51 is that he really keeps things moving in a certain way.
02:54 But you know what? Are underlying issues keep things
02:58 moving in a certain way and if they are negative that is
03:02 the direction we are going to move in.
03:03 If they are positive, if they are true, if they are
03:07 healing, oh man we get our life.
03:09 So I want to introduce you first of all to Brian.
03:13 Brian, the first time I heard of you it was during a
03:17 group somebody was running called bulletproof.
03:20 I love that, I mean I love that even with that kind of
03:24 visual with Ben up here, emotionally bullet proof that's
03:28 really what we want to look at today.
03:29 But first of all, excuse me, tell us who you are?
03:34 Where you come from, let's talk about who you are and
03:37 where you come from before we get into your ministry.
03:40 Well I'm Brian Shaul, I'm from Alaska.
03:44 We live about three quarters of a mile from Sarah Palin
03:48 so - no really - really - that's funny!
03:51 During the presidential stuff we always knew she was in
03:55 town all the important cars would come and park there.
03:59 All the secret police and stuff, they would block off the lake
04:02 so that no planes could land on her lake where
04:05 they fly out and stuff.
04:06 That's funny, and I can see you going out and cutting down
04:09 a tree. - yeah, yeah.
04:14 I grew up in Alaska, ya grew up and we had
04:17 a cabin out in the bush of Alaska and we would ride snow
04:20 machines out to because there's no roads out to it.
04:23 So that is kind of where it came from and I had a great
04:25 childhood growing up.
04:27 I'm jealous? Yeah, well those who didn't get
04:30 a great childhood should be jealous.
04:33 It is a platform we can build off for the rest of our
04:36 life, yeah it is a very important thing.
04:39 So I can just see you in a safe environment and parents
04:44 that love you. - yeah it was great.
04:47 As a teenager, I was about 18 and I had a head injury.
04:51 - what happened? I got hit with a softball just plain
04:55 softball no big deal, but I went into the hospital and I
04:59 was unconscious for two days and I woke up a different
05:03 person and I woke up with anger management problems.
05:06 A different person and back 20 years ago or longer than that
05:12 it was not as common for people to get treatment for it.
05:17 I think for a lot of people, I think me included, until
05:22 I start working in the nursing field is you don't realize
05:26 what happens with head injuries and your impulse
05:29 control and who you are, there is such a change.
05:32 They did a major study of a guy one time that got hit
05:35 through the eye with one of these spikes, he was working on
05:41 the railroad and he came out of that injury.
05:44 They said this guy was a church guy, a nice family Guy,
05:48 and he came out cussing and swearing, partying and left
05:52 his wife and went drinking and the personality change was huge.
05:56 What you are talking about is that I was different,
06:00 not just kind of different? I was a different kid.
06:04 What I noticed is that couldn't, one memory I have
06:08 during that time was that I was trying to dial our phone
06:10 to call my mom, she was working.
06:11 I needed something and I couldn't find it and I tried
06:15 to dial the phone for a half an hour.
06:17 I remember just crying, crying, and crying because I
06:19 couldn't even dial a phone and thinking to myself I
06:22 have got to hide the fact I'm not smart anymore.
06:24 - wow so instead of a talking freely with people you just
06:28 that shame came over you and all that?
06:30 Shame came in and I tried to be as normal as most possible.
06:33 Which worked for about six months or so until the
06:37 frustration and anger just started coming out.
06:40 Plus head injuries are very influence able and so if you
06:44 hear something is an average person you sort it out and say
06:49 no that is not right.
06:50 But when you have a head injury you become very gullible.
06:53 Right! Almost naive, you don't filter information
06:56 the same. - everything is in the moment to you.
07:00 Exactly, exactly so as I became angry, but good friends
07:03 that I had who were really positive people tended not to
07:06 want to hang out with me and didn't want to be around me
07:10 anymore so I tended to gravitate to the angry kids that had
07:13 the hard childhoods, that had a reason to be angry.
07:18 And so I started drifting in that direction and by the
07:22 time a year or so had gone by I was really in a bad place.
07:26 And you fit in? I fit in with them yeah.
07:29 And they accepted me, the good kids that had it going on
07:33 they were ashamed of me, including the girl I wanted to
07:37 marry, she wasn't comfortable with me anymore.
07:40 I wouldn't have been either, she knew me really well
07:44 before the head injury and she could tell
07:45 something had really changed.
07:47 What's really sad is that you are right, there is a certain
07:50 time that people would not have guessed that there was
07:54 a correlation with this injury.
07:57 I had been hiding it for six months, nobody understood
08:01 the change and because I was able, in a sense they did,
08:04 in fact I didn't really under stand truly what had happened
08:08 until I met my wife, and my wife said have you had a head
08:12 injury? I said no, not that I can remember.
08:15 - oh, so you didn't even put it together?
08:18 I didn't even put it together until years and years later
08:21 when I met my wife and she had worked in neural surgery
08:24 trauma in the hospital and she asked my mom.
08:28 Has he ever had a head injury, she said which time?
08:31 So is really interesting to me is that I am thinking a lot
08:34 of couples are sitting there watching this program and the
08:37 wife turns around and says have you had a head injury?
08:39 Is that the whole thing? - yeah probably!
08:43 I'm sorry. So we are laughing about this, but it changed
08:49 everything, and not only for one or two weeks it turned
08:55 the course of your life in a different direction.
08:57 And the kids I was hanging with were listening to a lot
09:01 of heavy metal music and I got into the satanistic music
09:06 that promotes Satan and within a year or so I truly
09:11 believe Satan was bigger than God.
09:12 It was, it was, I really became a very different person.
09:17 When you say that, because a lot of people aren't going to
09:22 realize what you are saying, it is that you are saying
09:26 to even the devil himself is that I want you in my life.
09:29 Oh yeah, I felt like having the devil, having the
09:34 influences - having control. - yeah and I had a demon
09:40 I called Yohon and he told me what to do.
09:42 That was safe for me because I couldn't make decisions on my
09:46 own after the head injury so for me it was a very safe
09:48 thing to have this friend that would help me make
09:51 decisions and when I realized where I was going I ended
09:56 up cutting two fingers off with a table saw because of
10:00 my head injury and not paying attention.
10:02 I was in the hospital and they were going to amputate,
10:06 in fact they put me under and said they were going to
10:10 amputate these two fingers.
10:11 I said well God, my life isn't worth anything to me anymore,
10:14 I'll give it to You.
10:15 Now that I've come to it because at that point I couldn't
10:19 do school, I couldn't do any thing, the only thing I did was
10:23 carpentry and with a head injury there is no chance of me
10:26 ever doing anything with school.
10:28 Without my hands I couldn't do carpentry and so that was the
10:34 end of my life as productive, me being productive.
10:39 Let me just ask you because a lot of folks that go in the
10:42 direction that you went into, because we are talking about
10:45 addictions and where it drives us, or leads us.
10:49 Is I fit in with this crowd, but now I fit in with this
10:53 really hard core alternative music, now I fit into even this
10:57 kind of satanistic group and now for some reason I want
11:02 to pull back. And the devil doesn't let us pull back.
11:06 True, I had my parents my older brother, my older brother
11:11 in the book I wrote Matthew is that he dies and leaves
11:16 a diary for the main character in the book.
11:18 My dad and my older brother, my older brother's name is
11:22 Matthew and I named the character that because my older
11:25 brother was so instrumental in me coming back.
11:28 And my dad was a carpenter and so Matthew is kind of a
11:31 combination of my dad and my older brother in the book.
11:33 The characters dad in the book is a psychologist.
11:41 The reason I did that is because psychology didn't help me.
11:44 I wanted to make the villain a psychologist.
11:48 I went through psychologists - with a head injury you
11:53 are asking someone to think and I can't think.
11:56 And he basically told me when I finally got to the, they said
12:00 well your conscious brain doesn't work like it used to and
12:04 so your going to be begging groceries, you are going to be
12:06 doing something like that for the rest of your life and
12:09 you are going to have anger management problems.
12:11 That is what they told me.
12:12 - and that is just the way it is.
12:13 And that is where they left me and to be extremely smart
12:18 and then all of a sudden one day as a sophomore in high
12:22 school, my mom was driving me to the University of
12:26 Washington Library to do research on aerodynamics because
12:29 I wanted to be an engineer that developed airplanes.
12:33 Specialty airplanes, that is what I wanted to do from
12:38 as long as I can remember so for me that was taken away.
12:42 I went from being extremely smart I had about a six minute
12:46 conscious thought process, I tested close to the genius range
12:50 in a lot of different areas and then one day boom.
12:53 I was ignorant, I couldn't even think.
12:59 So I understood what it was like to be very smart and I
13:03 understood what it's like - to not be able to dial the
13:06 phone? - exactly not to be able to dial phone.
13:08 The neat thing about that is that you tend to be around
13:13 these people that were not a good influence,
13:15 but my parents and my older brother stayed with me the
13:18 whole time. And to you parents out there I can't tell
13:22 you how much, how important it is to stick with your kids
13:25 even when they are going through something you do not
13:28 understand. - because we always assume that it's a
13:30 behavioral thing when sometimes like in your case
13:33 it was a physical thing, I have been injured.
13:36 But we make assumptions and allow - it is funny,
13:40 a parent came in, a person in the church, a respected person
13:45 came in and they didn't know I was listening.
13:47 They just tore my parents up one side and down the other.
13:51 Basically said you guys are bad parents and I came out
13:55 and I remember, I don't remember well because of my head
14:00 injury, but I like how dare you.
14:03 God was the perfect parent and He lost a third of the
14:06 Angels, hello! Now these people are coming to my parents
14:10 after they had done a very good job of raising me and
14:13 something had happened and I had gone bad, by that time
14:17 I had gone bad as far society and stuff is concerned.
14:20 They were telling my parents it was their fault?
14:24 It made me very angry, but I was angry about everything
14:27 else too. - so that was easy, I could play that real
14:32 easy, so you are saying you always had a lifeline with
14:36 your parents and your brother.
14:38 My mom was amazing and my older brother was amazing.
14:43 So now that turnaround what did that look like and how
14:47 did that start to happen in your life?
14:49 Well it look like me going to the Pastor and telling him
14:51 I had problems with demons.
14:52 I had demons I was struggling with.
14:55 Because when you tried to come out what happened?
14:56 Because demonic stuff, and I wish I could say that really
15:00 loud where people that are playing in that arena, when you
15:04 get done playing it is not as easy.
15:07 - you just don't back out of it. - you don't back out
15:09 of it and when someone says in a gang activity I'm going
15:12 to get jumped in a gang and do all this stuff and when I'm done
15:14 I'm going to come out.
15:16 The gang does not let you out.
15:17 And when you talk about a spiritual gang it is even more
15:21 so because that spirit stuff can follow you around no
15:24 matter where you are at, even in your most quiet times.
15:27 So how did you start to back out and what did that look like?
15:31 Well basically, I want to tell it accurately and it is
15:35 hard for me to remember details, especially about that
15:38 part of my life.
15:39 - you don't have to be accurate you're talking to me.
15:43 I'll just kind of weave through that, I'm sorry.
15:46 Well basically I took a baseball bat and punched all the
15:49 windows out of my house and wrote a whole bunch of
15:51 satanic stuff on the walls and got arrested.
15:54 They came in - it's almost like a helter-skelter thing
16:00 I just lost it. - yeah well I look back and I understand
16:05 the anger I had, and I understand where the anger was
16:09 coming, it was from frustration from not being able to
16:13 express myself and my dad was an authority figure.
16:16 The funny thing when we have a lot of anger and stuff
16:20 we react towards the authority figures and so I was angry
16:24 at my dad and was showing my dad how angry I was.
16:28 I look back - all the rebellion really gets, you usually
16:31 hit a family member or something or somebody that you
16:35 love, spouse. - yeah and so at that point in time they
16:39 were going to put me in jail for 3 year because they thought
16:42 I was going to kill my dad because of some of the stuff
16:45 and they weren't going to let me out.
16:47 But the Pastor came in and said hey this is a good kid,
16:50 this guy has never done anything wrong and he sat down
16:53 with me and worked through the demon issues with me at
16:56 that point in time and it was a struggle for years.
16:58 It's really tough, I mean it's really tough when we feel
17:02 we are such an enlightened society that when somebody
17:06 mentions demons we just want to say ahh I want to stay
17:11 away from that, but even within my church, the Adventist
17:15 church that Ellen White talked about rebuking demons and
17:19 that thing and it's not like there are demons behind every
17:24 bush, but there is a reality and there is a devil and demonic
17:28 activity and there is all that stuff.
17:30 When you come against it there is nothing else to do but
17:34 to say in Jesus name.
17:36 Oh yeah, and I notice that after I started working to
17:41 come out of that world, I noticed that my anger was
17:45 the gateway for Satan to come into my life.
17:47 I realized, - you had totally opened the door, gave
17:50 him some room. - oh yeah, after I gave my life to the
17:55 Lord, which I was very immature and when I did I didn't
17:59 understand what I was doing, but I was hopeless and
18:04 I had given up and I was ready to die.
18:06 I mean if I could have committed suicide at that point.
18:09 If I could have commit suicide at that point in time
18:16 I probably really would have.
18:17 Why I didn't, God had a plan for my life and He kept
18:21 me from doing that but later on as I worked with people
18:25 who were in that place I could definitely understand
18:29 why they were there.
18:30 You wouldn't shame them, of course you feel like this
18:34 but you will get through it.
18:35 Yeah, yeah - exactly.
18:36 At one point of time when I was doing a lot of ministry
18:40 I had 17 calls where it was like my daughter is going to
18:43 commit suicide and here's the phone.
18:45 I'm like oh thanks, but the Lord works through it and
18:49 the Holy Spirit is amazing and we were able to work
18:53 each one of those situations.
18:54 So now you are at a point in your own life where you are
18:58 bringing that, you are bringing yourself back to God.
19:01 We do know nobody was there for me, nobody understood my
19:04 problem and it took me six years to really study the
19:08 Bible and really look at psychology.
19:11 I studied psychology too because I wanted to understand
19:15 and I found about 20% of physiology fit with what the
19:19 Bible was teaching and the rest I had to set aside.
19:22 It took me about six years to go through that process for
19:27 myself and the way I got into sharing this with other
19:31 people was I had a close friend who had gotten raped.
19:35 She had all the same exact problems that I had for
19:40 my physical head injury, but I knew it was
19:42 from her emotional trama.
19:44 So I started teaching her these tools that I have learned
19:47 over the last six years and she recovered very quickly
19:51 from that and she gave me credit for helping her recover
19:55 from that, and I was like wow.
19:56 Now what tools, because during those six years what did
19:59 that look like? Because I am still at the point where
20:02 you are just coming out if you know what I mean.
20:05 So basically when I came and gave my life back to the
20:10 Lord I was a wreck and I didn't have tools to deal with life.
20:16 I couldn't interact with people, I was angry all the
20:18 time and I wasn't comfortable with people.
20:22 Some of us, especially were talking on this whole season
20:26 on personal inventory and four step.
20:28 Some of us we need specific tools, what exactly do I think
20:33 about it and so you are saying I'm in that place.
20:36 With a head injury I needed a very simple step-by-step
20:40 process and I'm sure one existed out there but I couldn't
20:43 find it so for me, especially after I helped that girl
20:47 come through the process I realize that this step-by-step
20:51 process needed to be developed.
20:53 I dedicated my life at that point to refining a process
20:56 to helping people deal with emotional trauma or physical
21:00 trauma or a lot of people deal with post-traumatic stress.
21:04 So let's talk about what tools you developed and how
21:08 that look in your own walk. In your own journey.
21:12 First of all when we have been heard we don't trust.
21:16 So basically I had to learn to trust all over again.
21:19 So that was the first tool that I had to develop for
21:23 myself. - and we talked about that even at the beginning
21:26 of the programs I didn't trust anyone.
21:28 So whether it is a head injury or an addiction or a
21:31 dysfunction or abuse, that is one of the big items.
21:35 Who do you trust?
21:37 The second concept that I found for myself that was
21:40 critical was the 3, 12, and 70.
21:43 As I was studying Christ's life and studying psychology
21:47 and studying all of these books it took me forever
21:49 because I read at about a third grade reading level.
21:53 Those that know me know it is painfully agonizing for me
21:57 to read, but I didn't have any options.
22:00 I needed to study this out.
22:01 So when Christ was here on earth He had three intimate
22:05 close friends, He had 12 disciples that were close
22:08 friends but not nearly as intimate as Peter, James, and
22:11 John and then He had the 70 that went out ahead of Him
22:14 to the cities and talked about him to prepare people.
22:17 What I found in my life is that I needed those three
22:20 intimate friends that I could trust.
22:23 If I trusted the wrong people, if I brought the wrong
22:25 people - you know wait I have to tell you because it is
22:28 really funny and I love the way God lead you in this
22:31 because people, I'll just mention myself for myself in
22:35 recovery when I knew that God said I want you to develop
22:38 those intimate relationships, my palms sweat.
22:41 Because we don't know how to do that, so trust is a big
22:44 issue but when you say now I specifically want you to
22:47 get those three people, develop those kinds of friendships
22:51 you're saying keep it simple.
22:54 For me it was three friends, and the reason for three,
22:58 I've struggled, I said one, it's hard to have one.
23:03 And I said why did Christ give us an example of three?
23:06 But you know what? One person can't meet all of your
23:09 needs, Christ can, and for six years I depended on Christ.
23:13 I developed a very intimate relationship with Christ
23:16 and He can meet your needs.
23:18 To tell an addict oh go built a relationship with Christ,
23:23 hello they need that bridge and we need to be that bridge
23:27 for them, but for me I had to develop those three intimate
23:31 friends because one person couldn't deal with all my
23:34 trauma, one person could not deal with all of my stress.
23:37 When one person got overwhelmed with who I was
23:41 - call the next one. - call next one and I laugh about
23:45 that now but we need three friends because one time one
23:48 day your friend may be having a down day too.
23:52 So we really need that 3, 12 and 70.
23:55 Then the next step that I found, I found a text.
23:59 Let me just go for the 12, join a group somewhere,
24:02 get into a Bible study or whatever.
24:03 The 70 is just your interest, the Church body,
24:07 or whatever, so you really can picture that.
24:10 I even did a crochet group for the 12 if you know what
24:13 I mean so it is being able to know that if I'm going to
24:17 specifically work on something I need to keep it simple
24:21 but make sure you do it. It will change your life.
24:24 My three very sacred, to illustrate the reason for the 12
24:29 I think part of it is that I had a great team in Alaska.
24:34 Pastor Tim is a good friend of mine and in the book
24:37 you will see Pastor Tim is the hero.
24:39 That is on purpose too, to honor him and the part
24:42 he played in my life.
24:44 Jeanette is really, another person, really but in their
24:49 life they had something happen and Janet really was
24:53 a counselor friend of mine and we talked shop a lot and
24:58 she retired, well she didn't want to talk shop anymore.
25:01 She wanted to talk about grandkids and so that's great,
25:05 that's wonderful but all of a sudden she didn't fit into
25:08 my three anymore and then Pastor Tim's wife got cancer
25:11 and he had to take the full load of ministry for both of
25:14 them because she was a Pastor as well.
25:16 And then I lost another friend at that same time.
25:19 I lost my three within a month.
25:22 But however in recovery one of the things you learn in
25:25 recovery is that those three are magical but the three
25:29 you develop and you can develop additional.
25:32 I had a healthy 12, I was able to reach out to some of
25:36 those 12 and was able to develop another three very
25:40 quickly, if I didn't have that 12 I might have been years
25:45 before I could have had three trusting friends.
25:47 That is an illustration of where the process of the 3, 12
25:53 and 70, some times things happen. - things happen and
25:57 it is nobody's fault, it is not a rejection thing.
26:01 It is going to hit all those buttons but know that as
26:05 people move and things happen in their life just develop it again
26:10 and do the next thing. And I love what you said.
26:14 As I said step-by-step, you have to have as an addict
26:17 or somebody with a dramatic brain injury, or as somebody
26:20 who has gone through post traumatic stress you have to
26:24 keep it simple and 3, 12 and 70 is helpful.
26:27 - what is the next one? - the next one is,
26:29 the truth will set you free. - oh yeah!
26:32 And what I found here - well you know for a lot of us
26:34 we don't even know what the truth is.
26:35 We just lie and manipulate.
26:38 Why did we teach trust first? Why do we teach 3, 12, 70
26:43 next? And now we teach about understanding the truth.
26:47 Because when you have a healthy three that you can trust
26:52 I'll guarantee you will have three ways of finding the truth.
26:55 Because they will tell you the truth.
26:57 And the Bible is our source of truth.
27:00 When we start talking about our pain, I have had even
27:04 recently, I have had people said Brian that is not
27:09 how it was, I'm like oh, ouch.
27:12 Then they took me through and showed me the truth about
27:16 this pain that I had and that I had caused it.
27:19 That person I was blaming for the pain maybe wasn't
27:24 responsible and so as I took responsibility for that
27:28 pain then I was able to find healing in that little
27:32 aspect of my life that I hadn't found it.
27:34 In recovery what is a gift for people to do is give you
27:38 correct perspective of what actually happened.
27:41 And for some of us - we need to be free, it needs to be
27:44 close intimate friends that can give you the right
27:46 perspective. - exactly because if we have a Pastor
27:48 who we have seen speak in front of a church and come up
27:51 and tell us honestly the truth that everybody can see,
27:54 we may not be ready to hear it.
27:58 Our friends, those close intimate friends they can take
28:02 us to that truth slowly, step by step and help us come
28:06 into that truth in a more reasonable way.
28:09 Awesome, we're going to take a break because I know you
28:12 brought in a partner, David Allen with you in ministry so
28:15 I am going to bring him up and tell us who he is and then
28:19 I would like both of us or all of us to come up here and
28:22 bring it to a close.
28:23 So we will see you again because I love what you had to
28:27 say about trust, there is developing those relationships,
28:31 there is really getting honest with yourself and that
28:35 truth and if we start doing that stuff as our recovery
28:38 becomes not easy, but definitely easier.
28:42 We will be right back, stay with us.