Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Jeremy & Heidi Summerlin
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00083B
00:13 Welcome back! Last week we had Jeremy and Heidi Summerlin
00:17 on the program and they talked about their testimony and
00:20 where they came from.
00:22 Jeremy talked about coming from some pretty intense meth
00:25 addiction, but even before that had some childhood stuff.
00:29 Heidi the same, so I want you to recap what you shared
00:33 last week so that it makes sense when we talk about the
00:36 healing you guys have done.
00:37 So Jeremy can you start, just where you come from and how
00:41 you got to a place where God said stop!
00:44 Okay, I came from an abandoned childhood where my father
00:50 left when I was seven and I was molested at around age
00:55 8 or 9 and a lot of pain for a little kid.
00:59 My heart was really hurt by a female at age
01:05 of 15, in the church.
01:07 This was a pastors wife that wanted to marry you?
01:10 Yes, correct. - got into a sexual relationship and was
01:13 going to leave the Pastor. The reason I want to say that
01:16 is because the first time I heard you say that I was like
01:18 no way because that is huge.
01:21 This was after your mom talked to back into the church?
01:24 Right! Yep. - you jumped into meth after that?
01:27 Yep, and immediately into meth and that
01:29 for 13 or 14 years.
01:33 Wow, your teeth look good! - thank you!
01:36 Laughing, I had a little work but not much at all.
01:40 Oh, because usually with that much meth, people don't
01:43 keep their teeth. - right.
01:45 - so you physically escaped a lot of the physical trauma
01:49 of your addiction, which must've been God's hand on you.
01:53 Exactly. - you guys met in his addiction, but talk
01:57 a little bit about where you came from before you met.
02:00 My mom and dad divorced when I was 10, 11-ish.
02:03 I was a surrogate parent to my three siblings,
02:07 younger siblings and was very promiscuous.
02:12 I was looking for that love, acceptance because my dad
02:16 was gone and I didn't see him.
02:18 I dabbled a little bit into meth, yeah!
02:23 - you had three kids by the time you met Jeremy?
02:26 No, by the time you met Jeremy how many kids?
02:28 By the time I met Jeremy I had just one, and then I had
02:32 two more before we got together.
02:35 - you talked about on the last program about 3 abortions,
02:40 during that time.
02:42 Early on! - yeah, early on, the reason I want to bring
02:45 that up is that at this point there is no healing from
02:48 any direction, just further junk, on further junk,
02:51 and on further junk.
02:52 You guys got together and it spun out
02:56 of control for awhile?
02:57 Um hmmm! - so who wants to share that stuff?
03:00 Go ahead! - well I would go to the store and leave for 2
03:08 days, sometimes 3 or whatever.
03:11 I was just going out and getting high.
03:13 - sleeping with other people?
03:15 Not so much, no, but it was using because it was my lover.
03:21 It wasn't really a sexual addiction, but I would be gone
03:28 and then I would just come home out of the blue.
03:31 She would be a wreck just wondering where I had been.
03:36 - I had driven around, called hospitals, called cop shops,
03:40 driven around places I knew he would go.
03:42 I was just thinking, there were a couple times I found him
03:46 and the look on his face was eke, she caught me.
03:50 Yeah it was craziness. - it's so crazy!
03:55 What is interesting to me was that in that craziness your
03:59 thinking, just don't look for me, I'm all right I'll be
04:02 home when I'm home. - actually yeah!
04:04 You are saying to him, I need someone to love me and this
04:08 doesn't feel like love. - Um Hmmm.
04:10 So the damage got more and more intense? - right! - Um hmmm.
04:14 During that craziness at what point do you look at each
04:18 other and say, I think we should marry?
04:20 You know what I mean, I'm thinking in my mind I can't even
04:24 put that together, it hurts me.
04:26 But at that one point, in that craziness, you guys decided
04:29 to marry. - we were feeding off of each other's,
04:32 I was heavy into my addiction,
04:35 and she was feeding off my addiction.
04:37 She needs take care someone. - right, so we were both.
04:41 - we were both married and divorced twice.
04:43 Where I worked in the law field I was able to divorce if
04:48 that is what was going to happen.
04:51 It was easy for me, so I was really pushing the whole
04:56 marriage thing, but we did get married until
04:57 3 years into our relationship.
04:58 He was out most of the night and came home with a ring.
05:03 I'm a wreck because he was gone for hours, but he came
05:07 home with a ring, so it was all better.
05:09 So how crazy is that?
05:11 Normal people will look and say, really, so he was out all
05:17 night, crazy, using meth, but he knew that you wanted to be
05:23 married, so here let's do it.
05:25 Did you go out that day and do it? - no - no.
05:29 We went to the courthouse, so it wasn't like this big
05:33 flamboyant wonderful wedding, but his mom was there and
05:36 his grandma was there and we just went to the courthouse.
05:38 You and the kids? - Um hmmm!
05:41 Did his drug abuse stop? - not right away.
05:46 So we have covered this already, but drug abuse continued,
05:53 your craziness continued and all that stuff spiraled out
05:57 of control, you eventually got to a place where God
06:02 was the answer, and even when you said that,
06:05 I'm thinking, oh good.
06:07 You know what I mean, it's about time.
06:09 You got to a place for God is the answer and moved into
06:12 that relationship, but the craziness didn't stop?
06:15 - No, exactly! - it got better?
06:17 Yeah, at times it got better.
06:19 When we first started going to our church, it is kind of
06:23 funny because we got this flyer in the mail that they were
06:27 talking about, what was that they were talking about?
06:30 Bad spirits or something, or the other side or whatever.
06:34 I thought they were promoting it,
06:35 so I threw the flyer away.
06:36 The next day we got another one, Jeremy read it and said,
06:39 no, they are against it.
06:40 So we said let's go and it ended up being a church,
06:43 it wasn't in a church building but when we went there that
06:45 is where I started finding the healing.
06:50 It was a very accepting church, a very nontraditional,
06:54 sitting around roundtables and was very relaxing.
06:57 In fact I think the first time Jeremy went there,
07:00 he was high. - I was, we were actually...
07:03 I'm a church member and Jeremy went there a lot high.
07:05 He would walk in and I would say Jeremy, get back into
07:09 the pastors office, are you high?
07:11 One time I remember saying to you, tell me if you remember
07:14 this conversation? He's like I'm not high.
07:16 He's like this and he's been up all night, so he is just
07:20 tired, his eyes are huge, and I'm not high.
07:22 I said do you have an accountability person here?
07:26 He says, I do. I said who, and I think he named some
07:29 like a Boy Scout out there.
07:31 I'm like, is he ever going to know that your high?
07:33 He is still playing me and all of a sudden,
07:35 he said, Okay, I'm high.
07:37 But the church you are talking about really does say,
07:43 come on in and sit down, let's work on stuff.
07:46 One thing you said to me, which was amazing,
07:50 during those times was that this is safe here.
07:54 It is really safe here, so the acting out was still
07:58 happening, in and out of the building it was still
08:00 happening, finding a church body that said, somehow
08:05 let's work this out.
08:07 Our Pastor is amazing. - absolutely! He is very real.
08:13 He is very now, yeah! - so you guys work together?
08:17 Did you work with the Pastor on your relationship ever?
08:22 Yes, one time we did, it wasn't very many sessions,
08:30 maybe 2 or 3. - Jeremy was just there because I wanted
08:34 him to go and it wasn't, - I think I, - I like the way
08:39 you say it so nicely, I threaten him, you better go.
08:43 The reason I say that is because some woman is out there
08:47 saying I know she threatened him.
08:49 It is true, when you are so desperate in those situations
08:53 and what is amazing in those situations, God is very much
08:56 involved and you know that you are going in the right
08:59 direction, but the desperation is still there.
09:01 I know we have all this junk still.
09:03 So you're with the Pastor?
09:06 Well I felt like I was, everything was pointed at me
09:12 and my addiction, and she was perfect.
09:16 - I was! - he was looking at me with here's your
09:20 problem, and you know what your problem is,
09:22 and you know what you have to do and I'm like,
09:25 how do I do that? I don't know how to do that.
09:28 So it scared me away, I'm like I do not want to
09:32 go back to that.
09:33 I love what you said because, the story I opened with,
09:36 I thought it was all about my Pastor when it actually was
09:39 if you talked about 50-50, I don't even know if it was
09:43 50-50 because I have all these rejection issues.
09:45 So you know it is everybody's issue, so you can't deal with
09:50 your addiction if you don't do with your codependency.
09:52 So you met with Pastor a few times, you started getting
09:57 involved in the church.
09:59 When did you get an idea that you could actually heal?
10:03 Ummm, it was probably when somebody in our church was
10:11 giving a class, I think it was, Return to Marital Intimacy.
10:16 Where you had to really dive into everything you
10:22 had done, I mean talking about everything from your past.
10:27 Moral issues, the abortion issue, the sexual relationships
10:34 that I had in the past, all that stuff.
10:37 We actually had to come head-to-head with that.
10:39 That is when I knew stuff was really starting to fester.
10:42 Right, so because I've been to that class,
10:47 I want to say that somebody will say again,
10:51 why do I have to look at all that?
10:53 If we could just say, God forgive me and I will give You
10:58 all this, I will accept Your forgiveness.
11:01 If we could give Him all that, that would be fine,
11:04 but most of us walk around and we don't give Him anything.
11:06 We give Him superficial stuff that the church can point
11:11 out, like I will give you the meth, but I won't give you
11:13 the fact that I was molested as a kid at 7 or 8 years old.
11:16 That part of you that was so damaged at that time I am
11:21 still walking around trying to handle that.
11:23 So in this class, it says what are you still trying
11:26 to handle on your own?
11:28 When you start seeing it, it is overwhelming. - it is!
11:32 God definitely gives it to you in chunks,
11:36 because there is no way that we could handle everything
11:38 that we have done all at once, Jeremy and I are still
11:41 going through my codependency.
11:44 In fact it is full born right now, because I feel that
11:48 he is not completely healed, but he has gotten a good chunk
11:52 of healing and I can see him working in other people.
11:55 I am doing the same thing but still there is another part
11:58 that is still processing through the hurt.
12:01 He's looking good, and he's getting better, and he's
12:03 working out, and he's not using, and he's coming home and
12:06 then that codependency doesn't know what to do.
12:09 I don't have anybody take care of, and that is a panicked
12:13 feeling. - so when he does do something little,
12:15 it is huge to me, because I don't have the huge anymore.
12:18 He's like yeah, why you freaking out about that?
12:23 And you say the same thing to yourself, I don't know?
12:25 So let's go back to one of the major issues.
12:29 You had talked of the previous program, and you have
12:32 mentioned a couple times on this program the abortion.
12:33 A lot of people who are watching, have had abortions and
12:37 dealt with that, so what did God do?
12:40 How did God take you back to that place?
12:43 The abortion didn't set in the front part of my mind,
12:48 it was always something that was yeah a, okay, it happened,
12:52 but I was in public about it.
12:53 I wouldn't go around saying this is what I had done.
12:55 There was a class going on, in the town I was in,
13:01 and I decided to go.
13:02 I didn't know exactly what they were going to talk about,
13:04 but I wanted to go.
13:05 They touched on the abortion, and the guy said, if you have
13:11 ever had one, you will see those kids in heaven.
13:14 I just lost it, I just cried.
13:17 So what I had done, yes it was bad, but I'm forgiven for
13:23 that and I am going to see those kids again.
13:24 With the Holy Spirit in that moment, I don't think people
13:29 realize that moment is when you see the grace and mercy of
13:32 God and it's not this big thing, it's not drawn out thing,
13:36 but it actually goes right to that wound.
13:38 God says, give Me that, I died for that.
13:42 I think sometimes we think that Christ died, and do not
13:45 realize that He died for some pretty serious things.
13:47 That is a serious thing that He said, I died for that,
13:50 I want to carry that, you are done with it.
13:52 - yeah! - and you're done with it? - yeah I felt it
13:55 lift, even though we processed more later on, that was
13:59 a big chunk of it because I really felt it.
14:01 I didn't mourn for the loss, even though the second abortion
14:05 I had was hard, I didn't really feel it, I didn't mourn it.
14:10 But when that guy confirmed that I would see those kids
14:13 when I get there, it was like everything, all 3 of them
14:18 combined, - you just wept! - totally, yeah!
14:22 When I say, wept, you wept, and wept. - oh yeah!
14:24 I cried, and cried, and cried, yeah!
14:26 So what is really interesting is that in our healing,
14:31 for some of us, we think I can say, God I know that You
14:36 forgive me, I'm turning my life over to You, I'm being
14:39 baptized and all those things are incredible, but that deep
14:41 wound is still there and we don't know how deep it is.
14:43 We don't even know that the shame involved in that,
14:47 and until the Holy Spirit says, surrender that shame,
14:51 surrender that to Me.
14:53 Jeremy, were you there during any of the times she worked
14:58 with this particular issue?
14:59 Um, yes, yes I was.
15:02 So talk about that and what you saw in her heart?
15:05 It was actually the first time I had heard about it.
15:08 I didn't know, and when she came out and put it on the
15:14 table, my heart went out for her.
15:19 Because even as her husband, she is not even telling you?
15:23 - right, and I was like whoa, that has to be a lot to
15:29 carry on your shoulders and my heart went out for her.
15:36 Just seeing how she was hurting and I just wanted to,
15:42 I wanted to get a hold of her and comfort her.
15:45 - did you tell her that? - I believe so.
15:48 Do you remember what he said?
15:50 Guys don't remember that stuff.
15:52 I don't know, we had so much stuff,
15:54 I do not remember the exact words.
15:57 What I love about that is the fact that the people we love,
16:01 there are sometimes that in our recovery and our healing,
16:05 it is even being able to, with the people we love,
16:07 to show them those deeper wounds.
16:11 This is what I have been carrying on my own, by myself,
16:14 for this many years.
16:15 When you see in the eyes of somebody you love the fact
16:19 that they saw it, that they got it, and they are not
16:23 disgusted with me, and they are not turning away from me.
16:26 They literally, I can see in your eyes that you wanted to
16:28 move into her life, at that point, and be able to heal
16:31 her and help her.
16:33 To be with God and let her know that she is forgiven and
16:35 all that stuff, is then again that God says, another piece
16:39 of that is removed from you and given to Me.
16:41 So what we do in our healing, when we get that kind of
16:45 assurance from people around us, it's we surrender that
16:50 to Christ, we surrender that.
16:52 Everything the devil meant, I know you guys know this,
16:55 everything that the devil meant to destroy her with
16:57 with those decisions, is done.
17:00 God says I will redeem that, I will restore that.
17:03 This is absolutely the biggest thing.
17:06 I know that you had the whole molest issue, was she able
17:12 to go through some of that with you?
17:13 Yeah, we went through everything together.
17:15 - talk about that.
17:16 The molest wasn't really the hardest one, that one was
17:21 pretty easy because I think in my own heart I forgave that
17:24 person a long time ago.
17:26 The hardest one was with the pastors wife and when we came
17:32 upon that one I broke down and I cried like a 15-year-old.
17:38 I don't think I ever seen him cry like he did.
17:39 What did he cry, what was the main pain in that?
17:43 Do you remember? He was crying like he was 15.
17:48 I mean literally. - my heart was broken.
17:51 - because you loved her. For you it was real. - yeah!
17:56 It was totally real. - all I could do was hold him.
17:59 Just tell him I was there and let him feel it and cry
18:05 it out and then ask God to come in and heal that.
18:09 When you ask God in, because that is a huge thing to say,
18:12 God, tell me what I need to do with this pain?
18:16 Do you know what God said? What was that feeling like?
18:21 With God looking at that particular pain?
18:24 I remember a picture I got from my heart before.
18:30 Before God came in and healed that, it was like this mold,
18:36 this nasty looking mold, just nasty.
18:41 Afterward, it was this bright fluffy white heart,
18:46 He had taken that stuff, that junk off of there and
18:52 just threw it away, it just disappeared.
18:54 So literally you felt like the Holy Spirit gave you
18:57 an image, this is what your heart looked like,
18:59 and now it is clean? - Yeah.
19:02 It's huge. - and Jesus spoke clean to my heart.
19:08 Go ahead. - it was just a process we were going through,
19:15 working through, a person from church.
19:17 It wasn't like we just decided we were going to talk
19:20 about this, it was actually having sheets of paper that
19:23 we could write things on that happen to us, and we would
19:26 go through pray about it.
19:29 You're breaking that were you allowed Satan into your
19:34 heart, and into your life, so by taking that and feeling
19:39 that pain, you are taking back that ownership of that pain.
19:43 You're breaking that stronghold by giving it to Jesus.
19:48 Therefore Satan has no more bounds on that.
19:52 I love that because you are talking about Pastor Joe, right?
19:56 Pastor Joe one time explained to me, which I thought was
19:59 interesting because he's from an attorney or lawyers point
20:01 of view, is that we opened these doors to the devil.
20:06 The doors are open through hurt and anger and pain and
20:10 bitterness at all that stuff.
20:12 We open these doors and we actually have given him,
20:16 or covenant with him to give him that ground.
20:19 Then we pray, Satan can stand next to God and say,
20:24 I'm sorry he gave me that ground.
20:26 He opened that door, he's not even asking
20:29 You in that area of his life.
20:31 And what Pastor Joe sent me one time, I'm not sure if what
20:33 he said to you was that if God came into that area then,
20:36 it would be criminal interference on God's part.
20:39 It is like God has no right in an area that
20:42 we have surrender to the devil himself.
20:44 Joe would just look at you and say, please shut that door.
20:48 Repent of that and take responsibility and give it back
20:52 to God, because He is the one the covenant His blood for us.
20:55 When you visually start to see that, it's like oh.
20:59 I want to shut those doors, I want to take that and
21:04 say, God, I need You in those areas.
21:06 Those areas are too deep for me to carry.
21:09 Not only that but you can break a lot of the generational
21:13 pain that is passed down through the families,
21:18 which happens a lot.
21:20 Did you sense that, when you worked on anything,
21:23 is that you had stuff that you see in your family?
21:26 Talk about some of that.
21:28 Well I knew there was, I had known that there was
21:32 some pain in my family that had gone back
21:36 a few generations.
21:38 I know now that that is broken and it won't be passed on.
21:42 Any specifics? - There were sexual abuse,
21:46 which kept coming down the line.
21:54 The reason I say that is because Brad, I always look at
21:58 Brad as being the perfect one out of the two.
22:01 He's a Boy Scout and I'm the homeless drug addict.
22:05 We went to Brad's fathers house after he died,
22:09 I was cleaning things out and we found a ton of porn
22:13 and videos and all that stuff and realized that through
22:18 the years, he was raised as a little boy in that
22:20 environment, a very sexualized environment.
22:22 All of a sudden he saw that from his dad, and he loves his dad,
22:26 it is not anything about his love for his dad,
22:29 but when he saw that, he realized that his sexual
22:32 issues stemmed from his dad,
22:35 whose stemmed from his dad.
22:37 The same thing is that you realize, I'm going in and ask
22:40 God, can You can break that from in our family?
22:43 In our family that's always followed us, sometimes it's
22:46 anger, sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it is depression,
22:49 but being able to say is, God it's done.
22:53 Somebody has to blink and I'm blinking.
22:56 I don't want this to follow our family anymore.
22:59 It is absolutely is huge and I think it's interesting when
23:03 talking to you guys is, do you feel when it's happening,
23:07 you almost see it, that it is done.
23:10 My kids don't have to deal with this.
23:12 - right! I can feel that, but there is still the pain,
23:17 the emotional damage that has done to the people it has
23:22 happened to in the family.
23:23 That makes my heart yearn for their freedom of that
23:29 emotional damage.
23:32 Were you able to go back to some family members and pray
23:35 with them, talk to them about what you are learning?
23:38 I've been able to talk about it, but bringing them to a place
23:43 where they are willing to surrender, I don't know if they
23:49 are quite there yet.
23:51 So tell me the work you have done, another thing you guys
23:55 had to work through, you are talking about a thing he
23:59 does with moral inventory.
24:01 That is a tough one, the decisions you have made in your
24:06 life, do they matter now?
24:10 Are you asking me that? Yeah!
24:12 I mean when we got to that, he was like you need to put
24:16 down everybody that you ever slept with on there.
24:19 I'm like, you're kidding me right?
24:21 Because there are some guys I don't even know their names.
24:24 To actually go through that, at first I was really
24:29 intimidated and scared, even though we knew him,
24:33 I knew I was with Jeremy, it was still scary to come
24:37 face-to-face with that, but I did it.
24:40 Afterward Jesus prompted me, standing in this beautiful
24:46 white dress, and said I was pure.
24:49 To hear that, to feel that was like, I was trashy.
24:55 So to actually feel that and hear that from Him was huge.
25:00 I see that in a huge way, as you confess right now,
25:05 is that God says until we surrender that stuff,
25:09 I think we just bury it further and further,
25:13 and further, and further thinking it is going away.
25:16 God says, I'm asking you to confess your sins and I am
25:19 faithful and just to forgive you.
25:22 Instead of confessing, we don't want to look at it again.
25:27 I don't want to see it again.
25:28 I don't want to do any of that, and we bury it.
25:30 It's interesting for Brad and I when he turned around,
25:35 at one point and said, I'm sorry for the women I've been
25:40 with in my life.
25:42 Would you forgive me, he asked for my forgiveness before
25:45 he asked God to forgive him.
25:47 I didn't realize I needed, I did realize I longed for him to
25:51 say that, to say I'm sorry.
25:53 I just cried.
25:56 - there was a healing moment, with Jeremy and I, when we were
25:59 in there that Pastor Joe asked how I felt about Jeremy
26:05 going out and not calling me or whatever.
26:08 How he does it is he leads us into prayer so he would say
26:13 it, and Jeremy would have to repeat it to me.
26:16 Jeremy repeated to me, and asked me how I felt,
26:19 just how did that make you feel?
26:22 I lost it, nobody had ever asked me how it made me feel,
26:26 how anything made me feel.
26:28 My dad leaving, me having to take care of my siblings,
26:31 they did ask me my opinion.
26:33 So that was huge, that was totally huge.
26:36 So I can tell it is still huge. - yeah.
26:39 What was your hearts saying about that?
26:42 Was like somebody finally cared? Finally saw it?
26:47 Yeah, it was like he was caring for me,
26:49 he's truly caring for me, yeah.
26:52 What's amazing, and I know you guys have felt that,
26:57 that moment where you realize that God actually wants to
27:01 heal my heart, God actually wants me to feel what
27:05 it feels like to surrender that to Him and feel the
27:08 freedom of being loved.
27:10 Is that a little scary at first?
27:13 Or does it feel like you just want to grab on?
27:16 It's like, I actually have somebody who loves me
27:20 unconditionally and even though Jeremy has been working
27:24 on my heart and still cares for my heart, there are things
27:28 that he does that it hurts.
27:30 He doesn't do it intentionally, but God is unconditional.
27:34 He never hurts, He's always, He gives me those clean
27:40 pictures, that your pure, I love you and it's so gentle
27:46 and nothing like I had ever, ever experienced.
27:49 I never had God ever in my life.
27:51 So to have something like Him in my life is awesome.
27:56 - And He's in those darker places too.
27:59 I think it would make sense if somebody said, He came in
28:04 and showed me that He loved me, as I was doing Sabbath
28:09 school class, if you know what I mean.
28:11 But He doesn't, He shows it as I'm trying deal with these
28:15 abortions, or the sense of not being loved at all,
28:18 or sleeping with someone and all that kind of stuff.
28:21 Like God is in your darker places, I know you and I want
28:24 to heal those places.
28:26 I want you to stand and walk away to those places.
28:29 I want you to surrender that junk to Me, and when you
28:34 do that, our recovery, our ability to stand up in Christ
28:39 and feel that joy of who He is, and who we are in Him,
28:43 that starts to wake up in us.
28:45 Did you feel that before you did this work?
28:49 Did you feel that to this extent? - No!
28:53 What was the difference? - My heart was in it.
28:58 Explain that more, because I want someone to know the
29:02 difference of why anyone go through the point of trying
29:05 to find out the stuff to surrender to God?
29:08 Trying to get rid of this stuff.
29:09 Well, from the heart, when I would try to do it, or talk to
29:17 her she would be in pain, I would want to talk at the head
29:24 level to her about that.
29:26 Trying to get out and rationalize it, that's what
29:30 would happen before. - all that, that's not logical,
29:34 that doesn't make sense.
29:36 - why are you getting mad it's just a piece of cheese.
29:39 Seriously, it wasn't about the piece of cheese, it was
29:42 about what happened 15 years ago that he is stepping on
29:45 that and not realizing it.
29:47 - right, and once I learned how to, I'm still working
29:52 on it, I haven't arrived.
29:56 It takes me a little time to actually step back and say,
29:59 okay she's in pain and let's find out why and then try to
30:03 drop into her heart and see were the feeling is coming from.
30:06 What's interesting is when you said you haven't arrived yet,
30:10 I have known you guys for a while now, and watching this
30:14 process with you is amazing because I feel like God finally
30:18 got you to the point where He is saying now,
30:21 let's get rid of this garbage.
30:23 It's almost like we all walk around with these suitcases
30:28 hanging all around us and we are trying to figure out
30:33 why does it feel so heavy all the time?
30:35 Why do I feel so burdened all the time?
30:38 God says because you are carrying all that, so the fact
30:41 that you guys are even starting to care for each other's
30:45 hearts, is absolutely a God thing and the Holy Spirit is
30:48 working in such incredible ways with you.
30:51 The reason I like covering this is because I pray for
30:57 anybody that wants to do this recovery.
30:59 Anybody that wants to literally walk away from all that
31:02 junk, is that you have to surrender the junk, confess the
31:05 junk, give it to God, do it with people that love you,
31:08 grab some support people around you and be free.
31:14 - that is one of the biggest thing is have people around
31:16 you that care about you.
31:18 My sisters and brother don't have God in their life.
31:24 They say they believe in God, but they don't have a church
31:28 family and so it is hard, not having my immediate family
31:32 beside me when I was going through all this,
31:35 but I had a church family.
31:36 I had this spiritual family that truly cared about what
31:40 was going on in my heart.
31:41 - when we talk about our addictions, we start to isolate
31:47 become, we break away from folks, in recovery we cannot
31:51 fully recover until we start to develop community again.
31:55 It is real scary because in a community you need to be
31:59 trustworthy, well I do not know how to do that,
32:01 You know what I mean?
32:02 When somebody says, I can't find anybody trustworthy,
32:05 I'm not trustworthy so it is like I know that and until
32:08 I get into my healing, I can't fully do that for you.
32:11 But if we both decide to heal together, we can be
32:14 accountable to each other in those very things.
32:17 I love what you said Heidi, it is like developing those.
32:21 Was that hard for you at first, because coming into
32:25 a church is new, and then coming into a church and
32:27 being real enough to connect.
32:29 When we started going toward church, within three or four
32:33 months I got plugged into children's ministry even though
32:37 I had never ever done it before.
32:38 It was totally foreign to me and I was learning more than
32:41 the kids were and that is why I learned some of the Bible
32:44 stories and things like that.
32:46 I then started 12-step with somebody there in the church.
32:50 Jeremy and I did the 12-step group and just slowly started
32:54 pickup groups and then marriage seminars and little things
32:59 like that that slowly, little bit here a little bit there.
33:03 I mean just three weeks ago God took away my identity.
33:08 And my identity was focused on him.
33:12 - I was fixing an addict, I was going to rescue.
33:15 God asked me to give it to Him and I cried, big-time cried.
33:19 I'm like, You are taking away everything I have ever known.
33:23 - since you were little girl you are always tried to
33:26 fix people and make it right and do all that.
33:29 I'm battling, who am I, what is my identity?
33:31 Who am I? Finally He took away that false identity of
33:36 having to take care of everybody else.
33:39 So now He is going to show you who you are? - Um Hmmm!
33:44 I want to tell you that I think you are fabulous,
33:47 and I know you do not know that fully yet.
33:49 That is what I think it is incredible about God is that
33:52 we do not even know who we are, yet we hold on to this
33:55 false identity from all this pain and God says,
33:59 it is hard for Me to rip them out of your hand.
34:03 This is not about you, this has never been true and yet
34:07 I want to bless you with everything.
34:09 I want to give you the desires of your heart, but your
34:12 heart is so locked up and stuffed with, you know when
34:15 somebody says, that it's a miracle when He parted the sea?
34:17 I think it's a miracle He opens a heart up.
34:21 And recovery is about that, God wants to open our hearts
34:25 and heal us completely.
34:27 I'm even starting to invite people over to the ranch,
34:30 to my place and walk them through this process just to
34:34 say let's free you up.
34:35 It really is simple because it is a simple command,
34:39 confess to one another, pray for each other so that
34:42 you can healed, it really is confessing all that junk
34:45 and not hiding it, don't let it sit in there anymore
34:48 because it festers.
34:49 Like you are saying, you have mold on your heart in that
34:51 first image, and God said you weren't supposed to have
34:54 that, and let Me heal you.
34:56 I'm going to open up for questions, because I know there
34:59 are questions in the café, but I don't want to stop,
35:02 I love you guys, I love you guys.
35:04 So we are going to open up for questions,
35:06 does anybody have a question?
35:08 My name is Karen-Lyn and I can just so relate to your story
35:11 because I was raised a people pleaser too, to the point
35:15 that I don't even know who I am.
35:16 I came from a very, very strict family so law was
35:18 something I had to learn to live with.
35:21 Now I was brought into the church this way and I looked at
35:25 God as a law, trying to keep the law and now I am finding
35:28 out that God really cares about me and what is in my heart.
35:31 I'm not supposed to be keeping the law, I'm supposed be
35:34 following Him, and I don't know how to do that.
35:36 How did you learn to surrender that, because I find myself
35:40 still wanting to work for His pleasure, or to please Him
35:43 and I don't know how to sit back and let Him do it.
35:48 I can say, fortunately for me, I wasn't brought up in
35:52 the church, so I didn't know the laws.
35:55 I actually started with the heart.
35:58 It never was a legalistic issue with you? No!
36:01 I did go to church and people would say, why aren't you
36:03 wearing a dress?
36:04 Or you can't smoke, because I was a smoker back then and
36:06 I went through Bible studies.
36:08 - asking where is the ashtray?
36:10 Yeah, and I finished the years worth of Bible studies and
36:13 said I ready for baptism, and they are like well you have
36:16 to kick the smoking habit first before we can baptize you.
36:19 I'm thinking wait a minute, you just taught me all this
36:22 about how God's love is so, this is it and now you are
36:26 telling me all these rules.
36:30 To me, the little I know, and again I came from a similar
36:34 background, not a church background.
36:36 What I have seen is that it is really difficult for
36:41 someone in the church to look at that balance between
36:47 grace and the law, because the law is not bad.
36:51 Paul said the law is not a bad thing,
36:54 there is nothing wrong with the law that I couldn't
36:57 keep it, but there is a balance there.
36:59 I think what happened is that we don't really see the
37:02 love of God, or the heart of God towards us, it is hard
37:05 for us to do anything because that is the response we have
37:08 towards the law, and with somebody that is raised in the
37:12 church what I can encourage them is to start asking every
37:17 day for the Holy Spirit and asked the Holy Spirit
37:19 to help me to fall in love with God,
37:21 help me to see the heart of God.
37:22 I think in that we really start to really,
37:25 I'm surprised, I thought I was finally going to get well
37:29 and healed and filled up and fit in when God comes back
37:33 and I am in heaven.
37:35 And I think at one point, when I was working with Brad
37:38 on an issue, and I looked at him and he so loved me,
37:41 and I so felt that.
37:42 At that moment I felt so full, and I heard God say,
37:47 I want you well now, I want you laughing out loud now.
37:53 I just wanted to weep because I had no idea that
37:56 Your healing was for us now.
37:58 So I think that if you are raised in a real legalistic
38:01 environment, if you were damaged in that way, it is really
38:04 harder, but you have to fight to see the heart of God.
38:07 Ask the Holy Spirit to show it too, because I don't
38:10 think we have it in ourselves to get that image.
38:12 It has to be an image given to us by the Holy Spirit.
38:15 - absolutely, and the works part comes with the
38:18 relationship, it naturally comes.
38:20 It becomes a promise, the Commandments become promises.
38:25 The closer the relationship you have with Jesus, the more you
38:31 won't do those things.
38:33 - the more you desire to please God and He fills you up
38:35 with a Spirit that steers you in that direction.
38:38 Just an example with that, and tell me if you guys are
38:40 getting that, because Brad and I are sure getting this.
38:44 As I start to see Brad trying to win my heart literally,
38:48 like you are saying, sometimes it is hard for me to get
38:51 from my head to my heart.
38:52 But when Brad does that, I want to do everything for him.
38:56 I want to go in and cook, and I'm not that good at it.
39:00 I want to go in and do anything because I love you and
39:05 I want you to know that and I want to be
39:07 such an incredible wife.
39:08 At one point I thought this is the first time in my life
39:11 that Proverbs 31 were it actually made sense to me.
39:14 I want to do that for him, and I think it's the same
39:17 thing with God and our love for Him, and the response
39:21 to what God requires of us is that as I see His heart to
39:24 me, I want to say that the Commandments say, don't lie,
39:28 don't steal, don't do all this stuff and
39:30 I want to do that for Him.
39:32 I want to change because I love Him so much.
39:37 His heart is so amazing towards me, so it is a responding
39:41 in a whole different way.
39:42 The law hasn't changed at all, but I have changed in
39:46 every way, it is an incredible, incredible thing.
39:49 Is there any more questions?
39:51 Tammy I know you had a question.
39:53 This is the first time I have really maybe tried to
39:59 understand what codependency is so I would like to just
40:02 know where the line is drawn between helping someone,
40:06 and helping them in their codependency?
40:09 What is helping or what is hindering?
40:11 It is a great question. - it is!
40:15 Codependency is doing it for myself.
40:19 It is like it feeds my addiction - I need to be needed.
40:25 I need to be needed and also it is not in a healthy way.
40:29 I mean I was covering things up for Jeremy, I was telling
40:33 people he was this wonderful guy and dah, dah, dah.
40:35 He was out dealing dope, so I was always covering up for
40:41 him - making excuses for him - making excuses.
40:44 Even to the point were someone deep in codependency issues
40:48 will almost sabotage any kind of healing that happens.
40:53 I don't know if you can recognize yet what sabotaging
40:57 is, talk a little bit about that?
41:00 You can't let him get well because if he gets well
41:02 then you have nothing to do.
41:04 Well it was like when he would stay out all night and
41:05 then come home, all I would do is badger him.
41:07 Why did you do this? Why did you do that?
41:09 Instead of God telling me I need to be humble and to say,
41:12 okay, I'm glad you're safe and home, is there anything
41:16 I can get for you and go about my day.
41:18 While he was out it would just eat at me the whole time.
41:21 That consumed me, totally consumed me, above my kids,
41:25 and above everything.
41:26 Where he was and what he was doing consumed me.
41:29 Helping him would be making him coffee, or making him
41:34 breakfast in bed and it not be a condition,
41:37 something that he had earned.
41:40 For women who would say, are you kidding me?
41:44 Making him breakfast in bed, he's been up all night.
41:46 So even setting boundaries, like helping him would be
41:50 setting boundaries for him instead of just staying angry
41:54 and trying to make him make it right.
41:56 With a codependent it is that you are consumed with making
42:02 it right, and he has to make it right, right now,
42:05 and nothing is right so you stay in this craziness and it
42:07 keeps happening until the addict will usually go out and
42:10 use again and a codependent becomes very angry again,
42:13 and the kids are not even being fed.
42:15 When you look at the situation, the situation is crazy
42:18 even though it looks like the person that is helping,
42:22 Heidi, is doing the right thing.
42:24 She is just trying to get Jeremy, which is the meth addict
42:28 to stop acting out, in reality is that both of them are
42:32 dysfunctional, both of them are feeding off each other.
42:35 Neither one can get well until both of them made
42:38 a commitment to get well.
42:40 A codependent is the hardest one to point out because it
42:44 looks like, when people are saying Heidi, look what you
42:47 have to deal with, look what you are putting up with.
42:49 You really want to hold the codependent, because you think
42:53 they are doing all the right things when in reality there
42:56 is no right thing being done in this home until God
42:59 finally got your attention.
43:02 - Right. -Um Hummm.
43:03 Man am I glad He got your attention.
43:05 We are going to go ahead and take a break.
43:06 We are going to come back and I would like to invite Heidi
43:09 and Jeremy back just to close out the program with me.
43:12 I'm so proud of God, sometimes we act like fools, but God
43:16 just says, you know what I am bigger than that and if you
43:19 trust Me, I will free your heart up and we'll show you what
43:22 it feels like to be loved and to be safe.
43:24 We will be right back, stay with us!