Celebrating Life in Recovery

Givin' It To God

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Barry Steed, Mike Stone


Series Code: CLR

Program Code: CLR00060B

00:14 Welcome back!
00:15 So we heard from Mike, for one before God his wife just drugged
00:21 him to church.
00:22 I love that, I want to say to her, if you are watching,
00:25 good job, but the wife drug him to church and at Teen Challenge
00:30 and he said if You are real, have somebody on the stage
00:34 come down and talk to me, and watch the person leave the
00:38 singing group and come down to talk to him.
00:40 I just think that is amazing and it really is so God.
00:43 So now I have his pastor here and we are going to talk to
00:45 pastor Barry now.
00:48 Now I want to ask you, that you met him, is it pretty early
00:52 into recovery, or?
00:54 No, no, no, I met Mike about seven or eight years ago.
00:57 He started coming to the church
00:59 I was serving at.
01:00 We've gotten involved in a Ministry that he said awhile
01:04 ago that he still talks to addicts on a regular basis.
01:08 One of the ministries we have with our church is with NASCAR.
01:12 We take music in and do music in front of the fans.
01:16 You know I laugh, because I'm thinking they are
01:20 partying and screaming, so you have a crowd that is not
01:24 necessarily at the point where they are even thinking about it.
01:28 Absolutely not, that is the whole point of the Ministry.
01:31 Is we go into the Lions den and we set up and tell them to bring
01:36 their kids, their coolers, their chairs.
01:37 Not to ruin their weekend, but we take people, and Mike is one
01:43 of our great ones that he has such a report with those people.
01:45 Just like our God, when He comes into our life, whenever He
01:49 convicts, He didn't convict Mike that you are going to hell.
01:53 Your life is a wreck and if you don't come to Me, it's all over.
01:57 There is a real embracing and commonality he has
02:02 endured in suffering.
02:03 So what we are able to do with Mike and them is go into these
02:07 areas and we put on concerts and the crowds will go anywhere
02:10 from three to 7000 people.
02:11 We set up everything, but when the people come in we meet
02:15 them on their level, where they are at.
02:17 The street corners of their life.
02:18 Some of them are drinking and partying because they want to
02:21 had a good time.
02:23 Mom has sent them to the track with their drinks and they have
02:26 worked hard and you deserve it.
02:28 But a lot of people in the middle of that,
02:30 their wife has left them.
02:31 They are a broken person, so they are just roaming around
02:35 and the reason they are drinking is to try to fill the hole that
02:39 is in their life.
02:40 Their trying to use it as a super glue to put their
02:42 life back, or to forget about the broken life.
02:44 When we are taking people like Mike, that have their story
02:48 and Mike looks at one of these people, he is not looking
02:51 at them through religious eyes.
02:53 He is really looking at them through eyes of grace that God
02:55 has given all of us, through His Son Christ.
02:57 So we are able to just...
03:00 Well you know I have to say Barry, what is amazing about
03:02 that, it is amazing to me to watch somebody when they
03:05 look at you and you can see that they are looking at you.
03:08 They are not looking at your behavior, disgust them, or your
03:11 addictions are disgusting, but they are looking at you
03:14 and you know it is with compassion.
03:15 You know that they have been there.
03:17 Not necessarily that they have been there and been addicts,
03:19 they just have that grace in their eyes.
03:21 I've seen that were somebody is looking at me like that,
03:24 or looking at me with judgment.
03:25 With judgment I will shut off, it sounds like you guys
03:28 don't do that?
03:29 You definitely... Absolutely not!
03:31 Mike and the crew from River, what they do is they are able
03:35 to reach out and touch.
03:36 One of the old Saints said, heart to God and hand to man.
03:41 Even addicts, people who are hurting, they know very quick
03:46 if you are there to help them or if you are looking at them down
03:49 your nose at them.
03:51 Looking at them through eyes of religion, and it is one of
03:55 things that we find a lot in society.
03:57 Lot of people out there, Mike was talking about not being
04:01 able to read.
04:02 Mike is not going to be one who is going to quote
04:04 scripture at them like some people can.
04:06 What the world needs to know, is people want to know you care.
04:10 If you have heard the word of God and it is hidden in your
04:14 heart, it will come out.
04:15 out of the abundance of our heart, our mouth will speak.
04:18 When we speak to these people and we can speak to them
04:22 with our scars, that we can speak to them with experience.
04:25 They do not have to have the same testimony I have.
04:28 You know Mike's acid was his drug of choice.
04:33 His mind was the polifera of everything from cocaine to Meth.
04:36 So our scars are common.
04:40 It doesn't matter if they have just been abused, it doesn't
04:44 matter if they have been rejected.
04:45 We are dealing with a lot of people right now in the world
04:49 that probably if we will go back and check it, the source
04:52 of their hurt might have come sitting in the pews of
04:56 a church somewhere.
04:57 When they walk into the church that they are looked at
05:01 differently because we want them conformed before
05:05 they come in and that is not how our God, or Christ has set
05:09 this thing up.
05:10 He is the one that said come to Me as you are.
05:14 He'll change us, He washes us, He takes our sin and removes
05:18 it from us as far as the east is from the west, which is just
05:21 unbelievable thought.
05:23 To throw it into a sea of forgetfulness.
05:25 That is something that is supernatural because
05:28 we can't do it.
05:29 Now you was tell me about how long you had been sober
05:32 and clean and celebrating recovery.
05:34 I'm 18 years into it, but you know I can still remember
05:38 those things.
05:39 You can still remember the pain of being lost, of being stuck
05:42 and all that?
05:43 Absolutely! I tried in 1990, I decided I did not want to
05:47 live anymore.
05:48 So I decided in my life through a suicide attempt.
05:52 The whole reason now, looking back was never because of the
05:56 alcohol, it was never because of the drugs, mine was loneliness.
06:00 I tried it with alcohol, drugs, I traveled and played music.
06:03 I've been a professional musician my whole life.
06:06 Chasing the dreams of the world because in all honesty I grew
06:12 up singing gospel music as a young man.
06:15 I got to sing with some of the great gospel singers
06:18 in the country.
06:20 What the world seem to be offering was a lot more
06:24 accepting to me and how I was then what the church seem
06:28 to be offering me.
06:29 So whenever I found that place of alcohol and drugs, I was
06:34 trying to bring to myself this hole that people have talked
06:39 through the ages about, the God hole that you try to fill in
06:43 That's what our life is striving for.
06:45 This trying it with alcohol or drugs, a cigarette,
06:49 a relationship, and on March 1, 1990
06:52 whenever I woke up and I put aside all my drugs,
06:56 I decided that today that life had to change.
06:58 So after a suicide attempt you come out of that and that's
07:03 what your decision was?
07:04 I come out on that day, is Lord here I am.
07:09 If You are real, You are going to change this life,
07:11 or I'm going to end it because it wasn't that I wanted to die.
07:14 It was that I just did not want to wake up tomorrow the same way
07:18 I think that many people out there in churches, in religion,
07:23 good people without habits, many of them do not want to
07:26 wake up tomorrow with things the same.
07:28 The great thing about God I and what I have found out in my
07:32 relationship, and He is my friend, I am a Jesus
07:34 freak to the hilt.
07:36 I don't have, He is my friend.
07:42 That's as close to wrestling as we get.
07:43 I came to a conclusion where I have a relationship with Him
07:48 and talk to Him about my frustrations, how aggravated I
07:52 get at life being the same.
07:54 But with Christ my contentment is this, is that today, where I
07:59 am at, He is sitting here meeting new people and being
08:03 able to share and talk about Jesus.
08:05 Which is the whole point is talking about Jesus.
08:08 I can sit here and I know where He is and where I am at
08:15 right now is okay.
08:16 But I do not want to stay here.
08:18 Tomorrow has better things.
08:21 If I take up my cross daily and I follow Him, I'm not stuck.
08:26 It is a continuous evolution, like Mike said, it's knowing
08:29 Him more today, and not knowing about tomorrow, walking blindly
08:33 into it. We have heard great testimonies
08:35 today about that blind faith.
08:38 It is I can look into the eyes of Jesus, trust Him with all of
08:42 my desires that He put inside of me.
08:44 All of the things I was trying to meet with the toys and
08:47 the things of the world, is I have found out He put all
08:51 those desires in my heart, and He has an answer for all of them
08:54 The first time I read in the Bible when it says I actually
08:57 will give you the desires of your heart.
08:59 I wondered what that meant because in my depression I
09:01 didn't know what that was.
09:02 In my addiction I didn't know, I never had enough courage to
09:06 allow those desires to even develop.
09:09 God said don't even worry about that, I know what they are.
09:11 So it sounds with your testimony with your background, with your
09:15 love for Christ, you are in front of those folks at a NASCAR
09:19 race, or what ever because you know there are people sitting
09:22 there that if they could they would take themselves out? Sure!
09:26 That is what you speak about?
09:27 Sure! Well we give opportunities to be able to talk to someone.
09:33 You know many people truly put up the blinds in their life.
09:37 Even the ones sitting there right now, they have kept the
09:40 TV between them and church.
09:41 They can watch these programs through a TV, but as far as in
09:46 person they can't do it.
09:47 At these tracks when you stand up in front of people, you are
09:50 talking to people literally.
09:52 They have been to vacation Bible schools, they have heard
09:55 Bible studies, the stories of old and the great Bible stories
10:01 that maybe grandma told.
10:02 Or a sermon that mom had taken them to.
10:05 They have heard all that.
10:06 They have grown up in it, but something has happened to make
10:09 then put up that barrier, that they do not want to
10:12 hear it no more.
10:13 We come in, all the sudden standing in the middle.
10:16 The amazing thing, we had a great moment not long ago
10:21 in Talladega Alabama, when a man literally walked up,
10:25 with a beer in his hand, and he knew that he was walking
10:30 into 30 believers.
10:31 He had got beer on his shirt.
10:36 He might have a Budweiser, or beer hat on.
10:40 He came in there and what he'd done was he asked for prayer.
10:43 He said my family is falling apart, and my son is sick.
10:48 I need prayer.
10:50 What reached him was not, and I think we all know that it
10:54 is not the desire for a heart to see that is where they stay.
10:57 But I think that is probably how they came to Jesus.
11:02 Is I am not strong enough to change me, but if I can get
11:09 close enough to you, maybe you can.
11:12 So I think as believers in every walk, not even having the
11:19 testimony that me and you have, of the sobriety, and the clean.
11:23 But being delivered out of religion.
11:26 Being delivered out of depression.
11:27 There are people that are going to be, that are going to have
11:31 that armor on, that are going to come into our lives
11:33 and they are going to risk, if we do not condemn them,
11:36 and just say how do you come close to me, the Bible tells
11:40 me to shun this.
11:42 You know we have to be very careful.
11:44 I want to be what Jesus said.
11:48 Jesus was accused of something that was not heard of now
11:54 that the church is being accused of.
11:55 They said look at this friend of sinners.
12:01 He is eating with sinners, and tax collectors.
12:04 Look at Him, this friend of sinners.
12:06 Not friend of former sinners, this friend of sinners.
12:10 That is the identity I want.
12:13 I am sure enough that He is able to keep me.
12:16 He is able to keep me, and I'm covered.
12:19 You know there are some areas whenever it is sin.
12:23 Sodom and Gomorrah, I am not going.
12:26 It is whenever God speaks to us and says there's hurting people
12:29 that need Me.
12:32 That's when we can risk loving each other.
12:37 That I can risk loving you, you can risk loving me.
12:40 Not knowing that our churches our filled with people whose
12:44 hearts are just as dark as those people at the tracks
12:47 that never go to a church anywhere.
12:49 Theirs is just as dark, what we want to do is we want to get
12:54 in the way of their destination that they have set for
12:58 themselves, aren't we all in life's destination toward hell?
13:02 That's the destination that we have.
13:05 But the cross, and our Christ has stopped that and has
13:10 gotten in the way that if we do this right, we would have
13:13 to go around the cross. Right!
13:15 Now what God has done, He has allowed us through life and
13:19 relationships and ministries is to be able to get in the way.
13:22 Mike, he has done a wonderful job of getting in the way of
13:27 people who know about the cross, they know about church,
13:31 Be say I am not going.
13:32 I'm never going to go, the roof will fall in if I walk-in.
13:36 Even with that I have this woman that came up, she is in her
13:41 30s and she was so hurt, she would have killed herself at
13:47 the drop of a hat and had tried many times.
13:50 So she is finally brave enough to walk up to me, because I
13:54 tell my testimony freely and she, it gave her enough
13:57 courage to come up.
13:58 The only thing that she was able to say was
14:00 I'm still smoking.
14:01 I wanted to say are you kidding me?
14:03 But she was like I know this is going to get in my way
14:08 to even get in the building, yet if I don't get in the
14:11 building, I'm going to kill myself.
14:12 I'm thinking that somebody has to yell from the top
14:15 of the tallest church.
14:16 We have got to stop that.
14:18 Because people are dying and little things are stopping them
14:22 from getting help because they feel so judged.
14:24 They don't even get to the core hurt yet.
14:26 We stand, we have a tendency to stand across from the
14:31 sinners on this chasm.
14:34 This canyon, and we have a tendency to shout,
14:37 we have the answer.
14:38 Come to this side.
14:39 It is great whenever they describe our Jesus.
14:43 He describes himself as a shepherd.
14:44 Shepherds do not drive sheep, they lead sheep.
14:48 I think it is going to take, not everyone can do this,
14:51 whenever I became a believer March 1, 1990, there were places
14:56 I could not go that served alcohol.
14:58 I could not, for my sobriety, for my walk with the Lord.
15:03 I could not be around it whatsoever.
15:05 There came a day, there is not a time, it's when ever God
15:09 makes known in your heart that you can be, you're safe now.
15:13 That you are prepared, but now it is going to take some of us
15:18 to be able to cross the chasm to where these people are, and lead
15:22 them to Christ.
15:24 There is a reason why.
15:25 We have to do it, everyone can fish for men.
15:29 What we have talked about with our group, is I am an Evangelist
15:34 by heart, by call.
15:36 That is what I am now.
15:38 Saved by grace, I am, but I don't want to fish with
15:43 a cane pole, and I don't want to fish with a net.
15:47 I really do want to fish with dynamite.
15:50 What do you mean by that?
15:54 You know as an Evangelist, is that I heard you say awhile
15:58 ago, He's coming! He's coming!
16:01 The end could be now.
16:05 This show may never air.
16:08 If that is the case I have brothers and sisters who are not
16:14 believers and if I wait on just the opportunity to have the
16:19 one-on-one, which many people do that, and we have to do that.
16:25 I embrace those moments, still there is times I feel like going
16:29 out to make a big splash to get as many, and inform people.
16:33 I can't make their decisions, but we want to tell people that
16:37 Jesus saves them, He is crazy about you.
16:39 He knows every desire you have in your heart.
16:42 All those things that make you to, things that you do, He has
16:45 got the answer, He is the one that put them in there.
16:48 I didn't put that in there wrong.
16:50 I put it in there so you could find Me, know Me.
16:53 Look in my eyes and know that I love you.
16:55 Trust Me, hear My small voice, yet hear Me whenever I thunder.
17:01 So the thought of fishing with dynamite is going to be probably
17:06 more along the line of controversial ways of getting
17:09 into the face of lost people.
17:11 If I wait for them all to come to our church, if that is the
17:15 way that this is going to happen then I'm afraid that there are
17:19 going to be a lot of people not make it.
17:22 What is really interesting is I have a friend that is an
17:26 ex-stripper, and you will love this, I don't know how many
17:29 people can even understand this story.
17:32 She is getting ready to do a dance for someone, and she had
17:35 been studying the Bible with someone who had enough grace
17:38 to just say, let me show you some stuff.
17:41 She is getting ready to do a dance for someone and she said
17:45 God revealed to her who she was and she said all of a sudden
17:50 I feel like I did not belong there.
17:52 He did not shame her, He didn't do any of that.
17:54 He said you are a child of God, and you are beautiful, and I
17:57 love you and she walked out and never worked again.
17:59 But she was driving by a strip club one time, and she said
18:02 there are still people in bondage there.
18:05 I can't just drive by, so she made little gifts and put them
18:08 on every car, just saying you are a treasure of God.
18:11 She does 1700 gift bags a month now in Los Angeles to different
18:16 clubs, she doesn't go in.
18:18 She doesn't get tempted in all those ways again, but you are
18:20 right in that none of those girls are going to come
18:23 to a church, but now they do.
18:25 They leave the club and they are in the building, so there
18:27 are some people that are called to go out and say.
18:30 There are ones that are called to go out and do that.
18:34 The hands-on part of it, called to do what I do.
18:37 All of us are called to pray for those going out.
18:39 Or do Bible studies when they get in the building.
18:43 Absolutely there is ways, and we all have our part.
18:46 The one out there standing on the platform preaching the
18:49 gospel is not more important then the one that is backstage
18:54 who is just going to give the smile to an abused young child
18:58 who has never seen a smile.
19:00 You might be called just to work in a bus Ministry that when
19:04 that little girl walks in that has no one at home to run the
19:08 combed through her hair, that no one at home who is going
19:11 to say yes those colors go together.
19:13 That you are going to be able to stand at that door when she
19:16 walk seeing you can run your hands through her hair and say
19:18 baby you are beautiful.
19:19 Your beautiful! Those things, I preach it a lot.
19:23 From where I am at to the body of Christ, you've got to know
19:28 the importance of your words and your smile with a sincere
19:31 heart, getting in the way, rubbing elbows with the lost
19:35 people, listen, He set us free from that part where we can't
19:39 get real close to the Lepers.
19:41 He will keep us, we think that we can't go over and lay hands
19:45 on the dead and see them raised again.
19:47 The Bible tells us this.
19:49 So we can risk loving someone.
19:54 Someone risked loving me and I gave my heart to Lord.
19:58 I walked in and look at my mom and dad and gave up my band.
20:02 I told the band I don't know about being a Christian, but
20:06 I'm getting ready to follow the teachings of Christ.
20:09 I have always been so very of being labeled like some of
20:14 these that claim themselves Christ like when ever me and you
20:17 both know they are not.
20:19 No they are not Christ like, not the one in the Bible.
20:20 I remember that there is Mega churches all over the country.
20:25 On the day that I gave my heart to the Lord, mom said you need
20:30 to make this public profession.
20:32 You need to find a church, you need to do that, yes mom!
20:36 I know of this little church in Indiana and they are going to
20:40 church, just go to that.
20:42 I remember that she said I will call the pastor.
20:44 Whenever I drove up it was a little bitty church, and there
20:51 heavy, greasy haired ugly suited man standing in the back and I
20:58 knew right then that this guy loved Jesus.
21:02 Whenever I got out I had the long hair, trench coat, chains
21:06 and when I walked across that road he looked at me and said
21:10 you must be Berry?
21:11 That day, in that church, I waited for the call to the altar
21:15 and waited until everyone was done, it was empty and he said
21:20 is there anyone else?
21:21 With all consciousness, I stood up and wanted to shout it.
21:26 That is where I shouted it from, is this is my walk and I have
21:32 nothing I want of this world.
21:34 I give it all, I don't just give my sin, this is where a lot
21:37 of people mess up, we give our sin, we are real quick to give
21:41 Him our dirty laundry to clean it you know.
21:43 This is bothering me, this is heavy, that is when
21:47 He became my Savior, but I made Him my Lord
21:49 when I gave Him my trophies.
21:52 All of my talents, all of my good that I have ever done,
21:55 or thought about doing.
21:56 He became my king and I gave Him all the good stuff I had
22:01 because you see what I had good, this cleansed soul, this pure
22:04 white soul that my sins were forgotten by the King of Kings.
22:08 I walk in and said I have nothing else possession wise
22:12 that I need, but this thing that is now pure...
22:15 That you just gave me I'm giving
22:18 back to You.
22:19 That is the relationship.
22:21 As I have looked and get to meet the Mike's that God has
22:28 just radically smoked them, and he has laid his life open.
22:34 Now people that know Mike, people that know me,
22:38 is that it is not about the religion game, the religion
22:42 game is old, it's losing, it has failed.
22:45 Now what we have is this grace, we have this mercy, that
22:50 we get to walk in.
22:51 My number one thing that I preach to the young men and
22:55 ladies, the addicts and the misfits and all these people.
23:00 Which we were.
23:01 Amen! Which I love that.
23:02 even the Bible says, which you guys were.
23:05 So you know, I know how to
23:07 speak to them. Absolutely!
23:08 We get to tell them there is one thing that is unforgivable.
23:12 That is giving up.
23:14 He can't forgive giving up. Messing up He is really good
23:19 at forgiving and so as we walk this thing out, perfect
23:24 we are not yet.
23:26 You know what is really interesting to me is
23:29 that surrender where I said God I'm going to give you
23:33 all this stuff and when I finally got overstressing about
23:37 the drugs and alcohol, I almost heard heaven say, I am
23:40 so glad you are finally getting over this because now
23:43 I want to show you how cool everything else is going to be.
23:46 I thought it was all about the work of recovery, He said no,
23:49 I know your talents, I know how it is
23:53 going to feel for you to laugh without using anything.
23:56 When you can stay present in your life with the people
23:59 all around you.
24:00 I didn't know any of that stuff and God said wait until
24:03 I show you that.
24:04 I have, in 1990 I gave my heart to Jesus, in He has worked
24:08 with me and I have been a basket case and Angel after Angel
24:12 probably has quit saying, I don't want to be assigned to him
24:17 Whenever I gave my heart to the Lord, one thing that I said
24:22 well Lord I will do anything for You, but I don't want
24:25 to be a pastor.
24:26 I don't like pastor's, they are pastor's.
24:30 Well I'm a pastor now, and an Evangelist, but since then
24:34 this 28-year-old guy, in the back of a 79 van,
24:40 in White County Illinois, who was deciding I do not want to
24:44 live anymore, that was going to take a pistol and end life,
24:48 as I know it, He has taken that guy who no one counted
24:52 as good for anything.
24:55 I am a pastor at a wonderful church, I serve a wonderful
24:58 congregation, I have a beautiful wife and four daughters.
25:03 I have preached in Nicaragua, I have preached in Amsterdam
25:07 Holland, I have preached in Botswana, South Africa,
25:11 Zimbabwe, I have been all around the world to preach
25:14 this message gospel that has changed my life.
25:16 To a people who do not have any clue about the alcohol
25:20 in the drugs that we talk about.
25:21 I have found in India, what an amazing thing just to
25:26 know this God in my heart.
25:28 To talk to a people that do not believe the Bible.
25:31 But when they look in your eyes and hear your story
25:34 and they hear your passion, all of a sudden they want to
25:37 know who I know.
25:38 They do not want to know what I know, they want to
25:42 know who I know.
25:43 So the reason I can celebrate what we are doing is that
25:49 it is not over yet.
25:50 If the party is over then this would be a let down for now,
25:55 but it is not.
25:57 Tomorrow is another great opportunity to be able to meet
26:02 people we have never met before.
26:03 To preach a gospel to a young person, to a kid tonight.
26:06 I get to go and we've got a bus of kids that we are busting in.
26:11 Tonight I get to go to talk to these little people who do not
26:16 know all of the love that God's giving them.
26:20 We get to do it through a hamburger, or through macaroni
26:24 and cheese or what ever it is.
26:26 That first of all we show them that we care,
26:28 and then they will listen to us.
26:30 Being able to say you know what, I have been scarred.
26:33 I've been hurt, I've been broken and...
26:37 And all of them have been scarred, hurt and broken.
26:40 I don't care where, especially all of them have when they can
26:46 say what happened, how did you get fixed, and that is
26:48 when you share.
26:49 It is truly the surrender.
26:51 You was talking about someone turning on the TV.
26:54 They are scanning the program and tonight they have
26:57 stopped here, and what they have done is they have probably
27:00 already asked the question that Mike asked.
27:03 Okay God, if you are real, say something.
27:07 Maybe right now, in fact I'm going to believe it,
27:10 that right now that someone somewhere is just broken.
27:15 They do not want the religion, they have chased a lot of
27:18 different paths, and they think that they have come
27:22 to the end and there is no hope.
27:23 And they do not want to wake up tomorrow the same.
27:25 They do not have to, they do not have to!
27:30 I hear the preacher coming out.
27:31 They don't have to. They don't have to!
27:34 We are going to be right back, and when we come back I want
27:37 to end this with the pastor, but I also want you to have
27:41 prayer for us, and anybody out there that has just got to
27:44 that point and says I don't want to wake up the same.
27:47 I don't care if you are in the building and everybody around
27:51 you thinks you are fine.
27:53 Everybody around you sees you every week and think you don't
27:55 need prayer and you are fine, but right now you are saying
27:58 I do not want to wake up the same tomorrow.
28:00 We are going to come back for prayer about that.
28:01 And know it that you do not have to.
28:03 It is incredible, the gospel is incredible.
28:06 We will be right back! Stay with us!


Revised 2014-12-17