Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Joe Bates, Melissa Bates
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00058A
00:10 Welcome to Celebrating Life in Recovery!
00:12 Today we're going to look
00:13 at one of the most important
00:14 things that you need to
00:15 know in order to recover.
00:16 Come on in and join us!
00:42 Welcome back and I told
00:44 you that this is the most
00:45 important thing in recovery
00:46 and I wasn't kidding.
00:47 What is really funny is to me is when God started to unfold
00:51 this to me, I said, oh stop!
00:54 This cannot be it.
00:55 I remember thinking that I have looked at, coming off of
01:00 heroin, I have looked at dysfunctional home stuff,
01:03 I looked at early molest, I have looked at anger.
01:06 In fact the anger issue just cracks me up is that
01:09 somebody earlier on said Cheri have you ever been angry
01:12 about anything in your past?
01:13 You know I have been homeless for 10 years and strung out.
01:15 My parents were addict's.
01:17 My mom tried to self abort with me, and all that stuff.
01:20 And I said, no I don't think so.
01:23 They are just like, oh man, she's such in denial.
01:26 So that I realized that even in dealing with anger,
01:29 I was angry for a year and all this stuff.
01:31 I thought I had done some really good work, and finally
01:35 God asked me to do the dishes.
01:38 I thought, are you kidding me?
01:42 Are you kidding me?
01:44 Because you know in my home, doing the dishes was like
01:47 punishment, doing the laundry.
01:50 If everybody was messed up in the house, if everybody is
01:54 on drugs and strung out, so who ever was going to get
01:59 punished had to do the dishes.
02:01 Or they had to the laundry.
02:03 Or they had to go into the bathroom, so when God told me
02:06 to do the dishes, I pouted.
02:07 I was like, what did I do?
02:09 He is like, you are asking for recovery.
02:11 So I am asking for recovery, I am not asking for the
02:14 dishes to be done.
02:15 So God started to slowly talk to me about simple things.
02:21 I thought can I just get someone in to do the dishes?
02:26 He was like, no, I want you to do them.
02:29 What was really interesting is that He started to work
02:31 on me about simple stuff.
02:33 Preparing meals, doing the dishes, vacuuming,
02:36 getting the laundry done.
02:38 One time, oh man I just hate to admit this stuff.
02:42 One time I had been married like 10 years, my husband
02:46 look at me one time and he teared up and said, Cheri
02:50 are you ever going to iron my shirts?
02:54 I said I married you because you had an iron.
02:57 I was hoping you would iron my shirt.
02:59 So which just like God coming in and saying these simple things.
03:05 So that is where my next guest comes in.
03:09 Is I was traveling and doing a church gig.
03:12 Melissa I got to stay at your house, right?
03:15 Yep! - First of all I want to say thanks for being
03:16 on the program.
03:18 Thank you.
03:19 I got to stay at your house, and I made a joke about
03:22 what God was teaching me.
03:23 About doing the dishes and I want you to tell people
03:28 what you said to me.
03:29 Because like it killed me, just the things that God
03:32 was teaching you.
03:33 Yeah you know it was just
03:35 that for so long my
03:38 house had been disorganized.
03:40 I just did not have any real
03:44 skills as far as homemaking.
03:46 I think it started out as a kid, my mom had just not
03:51 really been able to teach us about organization.
03:54 As you are talking to me about your mom, about how
03:57 crazy your home life was, your mom was in the background.
04:00 It is so funny, because she's in the background going,
04:02 it is so true and that cracked me up too.
04:07 You were so sweetly saying that, but she was saying
04:10 that Melissa is being nice, because it was
04:14 horribly disorganized.
04:15 Yeah, it was pretty bad.
04:16 My mom just suffered from depression and so she did not
04:22 really realize the house is disorganized, it is dirty,
04:27 we couldn't have people over.
04:31 I can remember as a kid, if we ever wanted to have a
04:34 birthday party we would have to have at my grandparents
04:37 house, or somewhere else.
04:39 We did not have people over to our house.
04:41 It was that bad?
04:43 So you really didn't learn anything?
04:45 No, no!
04:46 So I want to get away from that for a minute, the house
04:49 cleaning thing because sometimes I think we get stuck
04:52 on that thinking it is all about house cleaning.
04:55 But how did that, because you ended up getting rebellious
04:58 and getting into a lot of stuff.
05:00 So let's talk about that and then I want to bring it back
05:02 to the dishes because what cracked me up about God is
05:05 that when He said, it all relates.
05:07 If somebody is listening right now, and they are strung
05:10 out or dealing with sexual addictions, or drug addictions
05:13 and are just rebellious and angry, they are not going to
05:16 buy the fact that it relates to everything, the home life
05:20 and what it was like.
05:21 So go ahead and tell about how it looked in your,
05:26 even early teens.
05:28 Well I can remember feeling smothered in my house.
05:34 For one thing we had a bunch of stuff, clutter,
05:37 but also my mom didn't want us to go anywhere or do
05:40 anything and so I felt smothered as a child.
05:45 So when I got to be a teenager and I realize that
05:48 I don't have to listen to her.
05:49 I left, I became a habitual run away from the time I was
05:54 about 15 until my 16th year, probably about a year.
05:59 And I hate to, I feel so heartless, what I laugh about
06:05 I think that you are just the nicest person.
06:08 Every time I have gotten to hang out with you,
06:12 you are the nicest person.
06:13 Your heart is huge and sweet and all that stuff.
06:18 I can't even imagine you being rebellious
06:20 and running away.
06:22 I know that you know when you talk, I can see
06:24 the tears in your eyes.
06:25 I can see that this was not an easy time, but you could
06:29 not stand it and I can see that when I look at you.
06:32 I think no way, there is no way.
06:34 You were out of control?
06:36 And no one could tell you what to do?
06:39 No nope, I pretty much did what I will wanted.
06:42 My boyfriend at the time was living in a crack house so
06:47 I moved in with him and we stayed there.
06:49 It was just a very dysfunctional life I guess.
06:56 Not a life for a 15-year-old.
06:58 Then when I finally, I was 16, I have been engaged once.
07:04 Then have been engaged again to someone else and I got pregnant.
07:09 That is when God really changed my life.
07:13 In what way, because you know how do you get, and a lot
07:16 of people don't realize, unless you have been there.
07:20 When you have so much damage, and you have so many lies
07:23 that you have told yourself, and that you have learned
07:25 from growing up with all this dysfunction, how does God
07:28 get through? How did He get through to you?
07:30 Well He just really at the time, before I started
07:35 rebelling, I had been baptized.
07:37 In grade school I had led a Daniel 7 Bible study
07:42 with other kids in my class.
07:45 You taught them?
07:46 Yep, we just all got together and said this would be
07:49 something interesting to study.
07:50 So I had a heart for God, but I just kept falling.
07:56 I just kept messing up and I thought at the time,
07:59 that I needed to be good in order to get to heaven.
08:03 That is what I had been taught.
08:05 So I realized I can't be good enough and I might as well
08:12 stop trying, so that is when I really rebelled.
08:16 I said, I'm going to live my life like I want to.
08:19 It feels good at the time.
08:22 Take God off the table, family of the table, I am not
08:25 going to listen to anything and I am not going to feel
08:28 guilty anymore.
08:29 Right, and so when they came back to God, He was just
08:32 leading me step by step.
08:34 Just baby steps you know.
08:36 I wanted my daughter to be raised in the church and to
08:39 know God, so that is what got me back into church.
08:42 You are about Cassidy, you're oldest daughter?
08:45 Yes! My oldest daughter.
08:46 She is amazing.
08:47 We are going to meet her on the next half.
08:49 So I started going back to church and God use that to
08:55 bring into my life people who taught me about
08:58 righteousness by faith, and how...
09:00 what did they teach you about that?
09:02 Because we are studying that this whole season.
09:05 Yeah, I know and when I was talking to my husband
09:07 about it, I said that was such a God thing.
09:10 Because it is something that is so near and dear to our
09:12 hearts that we can not be saved by doing,
09:18 we are saved by Christ.
09:20 Say that in a way that somebody that has never been in
09:24 a church before can hear you.
09:26 What does that mean?
09:27 Because that is why am have the hardest part is how
09:30 do you explain to somebody what righteousness by faith
09:32 means, because it sounds so churchy.
09:35 What really got to me is that Christ gave each one of us
09:41 a gift of eternal life.
09:44 Everybody, people who are strung out on crack or whatever,
09:47 they have eternal life.
09:49 It's like being a millionaire and having a million
09:51 dollars in the bank account and never using it.
09:53 Not even knowing it is there?
09:55 Well yeah!
09:56 I love that especially since I'm a heroine addict.
09:59 Not quite a crack addict, but when God said you have
10:03 eternal life and all that stuff.
10:05 The first part of eternal life thing scared me.
10:08 For one, I know, is that we have to receive it before
10:11 we can actually, if it is in the bank I have
10:14 to know it is there?
10:16 But I thought at first, you know eternal life, dealing with
10:20 all this stuff almost sounded like a curse.
10:22 So I had to be more than just the eternal life
10:25 that got you?
10:26 Well for sure it was that God loved me.
10:29 Let me clarify the cursing, because they do not think
10:31 of that now as a curse.
10:32 But then I was thinking about all my junk and
10:34 insecurities, my addictions, behavior and so what else
10:38 from that teaching got you?
10:41 Well just that God loved me no matter what, no matter
10:44 what I have done or was messed up with.
10:49 That He still loved me.
10:51 I was important to Him, so important that He gave
10:55 everything for me.
10:56 I want to ask if you got this sense,
10:59 the sense with God that He felt a sadness of the
11:04 hurt that happened in my life.
11:05 When I was out there doing all this kind of stuff,
11:08 I didn't feel like He came in and judge that.
11:10 I think He came in just like a wounded child and said,
11:13 I am so sorry you had to see that.
11:15 Or that you had to know that, or you had to understand
11:17 that about your own character.
11:19 I felt like it was different then what I anticipated,
11:22 God had to take it all.
11:23 Then He said, let Me pour into you what you need in
11:27 order to heal.
11:28 So He didn't even say that I want you to now behave,
11:31 but let Me pour into you what you need.
11:33 Man, so baby steps you took?
11:37 I took baby steps and God was leading me, He was able to
11:42 get us into a small group Bible study.
11:44 It was just amazing to be able to learn with other
11:48 Christians and to learn what the Bible really says
11:52 about our new life as a Christian.
11:55 What is really funny is that He took me into a Bible
11:59 study and I just felt like a fish out of water.
12:03 I am looking at all these normal people and trying,
12:08 in my mind, they are doing a Bible study and I'm thinking,
12:10 are you sitting normal?
12:13 Are you being normal, and I didn't even, it was like odd
12:17 for me to even learn how to sit.
12:19 Did you get that at all?
12:21 Uh, because I was raised in the church I don't think it
12:25 was that big of a stretch for me.
12:27 Through that small group Bible study, we had people
12:30 coming in who were drunk, into our Bible study.
12:34 I could tell was a little uncomfortable for them.
12:37 It was a little, not what they were used to.
12:40 But the fact that God works with all of us is amazing.
12:44 Oh yeah!
12:45 And that righteousness by faith, as God works with
12:47 all of us, to pour into us what we need in order
12:49 to take the next step.
12:50 Whether it is somebody coming back into the church,
12:53 or whether it is somebody who's never been in church
12:55 and coming in for the first time.
12:57 He knows just what we need.
12:58 Exactly, so you ended up coming into church, Cassidy
13:02 is in Sabbath school now doing the things, and you
13:05 probably cried just watching her do the church thing.
13:09 Yeah, yeah it was really just what I wanted for her.
13:13 The whole reason I went back to church was so
13:16 she could know God.
13:17 Because even when I was messed up, even when
13:19 I was in a crack house I still felt the presence of God so
13:23 strong sometimes, it is amazing He didn't leave me.
13:27 Because He doesn't ever leave you.
13:29 No, and at the time I even thought, wow, here I am
13:33 talking to somebody about God in this kind of a
13:37 situation, it was just incredible.
13:40 It's amazing because for a lot of people they think,
13:43 surely God leaves us because were so rebellious.
13:46 I think that God's heart breaks when He said I will
13:50 never leave you or forsake you.
13:51 I can't even imagine that there are things that we
13:55 probably could do to sever that relationship,
13:57 and the Bible talks about that.
13:59 But in my own walk in my own journey, I can't imagine
14:02 what it is because God has been faithful to me, even
14:05 though I have been such a rebellious, resistant hurt
14:10 thing, God says, we will get through this.
14:13 We'll get through this next thing.
14:15 So you fell in love?
14:17 Um hum, I did.
14:19 Met who?
14:20 My husband Joe and we actually met through work.
14:25 He wasn't a Christian at the time and I was just
14:28 coming back to Christ.
14:29 It was a tough situation at that time,
14:34 but we were able, he came to our small group Bible
14:37 study and he was able except Christ.
14:42 That cracks me up and we are going to have him on the
14:45 second half, because I thought he was always Christian?
14:47 He is such a man of God.
14:48 He is and he has been a blessing to me and to our family.
14:52 I know that for sure.
14:53 That's too fun.
14:54 I want to get back because we always have this time
14:58 limit on a program.
15:00 So I end up at your house, by this time you are married,
15:04 you are fully back to God, you have a couple kids,
15:07 a couple more kids and you have this incredible family.
15:10 The home feels amazing to me when I walk in.
15:13 It is just such a blessing, and yet you tell me it has not
15:17 always been that way.
15:18 No, no!
15:19 And only because, as I said that God is really working on
15:21 me doing the dishes.
15:23 So tell me, let's just talk about what we ended up going
15:27 into at that point.
15:28 Well what had happened to me is that I realized that I
15:32 did not have any skills as far is being a homemaker.
15:37 In your heart wanted to do that?
15:40 Yes, my heart wanted my kids and my husband to have a
15:43 place like it was a sanctuary for them.
15:45 I felt like, ahhh this is just so not a sanctuary.
15:50 So when I got pregnant with my first son, we had a hard time.
15:59 I got morning sickness very badly,
16:00 my husband calls it the dark days.
16:05 It was like the entire house just went under.
16:08 So after that experience, after I had had him,
16:14 I realized I needed help.
16:16 I have been told by several people about Fly Lady.
16:22 So I said know I do not need that.
16:26 At first I was resistant to it and then I finally
16:29 just got to the point where I needed it.
16:31 Okay so now come because I know what you are talking
16:34 about, because you shared with me, and I learned about
16:37 Fly Lady and what that is all about.
16:39 Tell us a little bit about that Ministry and what is
16:42 the acronym "fly" means?
16:44 Finally Loving Yourself, is what fly means.
16:47 At first when I had heard about Fly Lady,
16:50 I thought she was like a fly, a house fly.
16:53 And I felt like, what is she going to bug me all day
16:56 to do my housework?
16:57 What is that all about?
16:59 I'm so not going to call her, I don't need that.
17:02 Yeah, but what I found out that it is Finally Loving
17:05 Yourself, I was just like, yeah!
17:07 That is really true, we are, we can finally take the
17:11 time to do a we need in an organized way.
17:14 So you start talking to me about how this Ministry
17:20 taught you to how clean your house.
17:22 I'm like, I am beyond help.
17:26 You don't even know.
17:27 What is funny is that you did that and you just shook your
17:31 head, and I'm thinking can I do strangle you because
17:33 you didn't even know.
17:34 I look at it as punishment, it is punishment to me.
17:38 When somebody says I go into my kitchen and the kitchen
17:42 looks horrible, I want to walk out and say I don't want
17:45 even to go in there.
17:46 When I go into my office, everything is piled up and
17:48 I don't want to go in there.
17:49 So it is like don't even tell me, and you are saying,
17:53 just try it, just try it.
17:55 I think you even slipped me a little piece of paper
18:00 with the website, here's the website, so just try it.
18:04 Tell me what it did for you, you ended up getting
18:08 involved with the Ministry that their primary
18:12 belief is, that when you finally learned to love
18:16 yourself and create for yourself a home that you
18:20 will heal in all kinds of ways.
18:21 So how did that unfold in your life?
18:24 When did you actually buy it, that this may be
18:27 part of the issue?
18:28 As soon is I got on the website and actually looked at it.
18:30 I was hooked because she just,
18:33 Marla the Fly Lady, she really brings it to a
18:40 level you can understand.
18:41 It is just like a good friend talking to you.
18:44 What does she say?
18:45 While she talks about baby steps.
18:47 15 minutes a day and you do this one thing for a month
18:54 until you have a habit.
18:55 Why don't you go into your living room for 15 minutes
18:58 and just throw out old magazines.
19:00 Yep, Yep!
19:01 Don't even think it, just set a timer.
19:04 Do not work beyond that 15 minutes.
19:07 So really is baby steps.
19:09 What is interesting about this Ministry is that one of
19:12 the things, when you tell me about it, and I looked on
19:17 site, is that Marla had some issues, had some house
19:20 being a mess and disorganized, and all that stuff.
19:23 She had some issues and decided to do some healing her-self
19:27 and then somebody said would you help me?
19:30 She said okay and she got a few more people that wanted
19:33 help and pretty soon she started a little website and now
19:37 she helps 200,000 people every day to do the right thing,
19:43 today throw a magazine away.
19:46 Clean out your sink, and 200,000 people worldwide.
19:49 I think it is amazing.
19:51 So let me get back to you.
19:53 So you start doing simple things, and the first thing
19:55 she says it is clean out your sink.
19:58 Right, you are supposed to shine your sink.
20:00 You are supposed to take all the dirty dishes out that
20:02 are probably sitting in your sink.
20:03 You are supposed take them out and
20:05 set them on the counter.
20:06 You're supposed to fill up your sick with hot water
20:08 and some bleach and let that sit for a while.
20:10 Then clean your sink and shine it up.
20:13 That is it?
20:14 That's it.
20:15 Don't stress about, that's it.
20:18 So I tried it, my goodness.
20:21 You tried it before you left my house.
20:22 Oh I shined your sink, that's right.
20:25 It was like I walked in and I said, now look at that sink.
20:30 But what is really interesting, it is almost like, and
20:34 this is what is weird for us addicts, or as damaged folks.
20:37 I don't care for damaged is depression, anger, addiction,
20:40 sexual addiction, stealing, gambling, whatever it is.
20:43 Workaholism, workaholic shine half your sink.
20:49 but anyhow when you start doing the simple things,
20:53 all of a sudden there's junk that comes up to the surface
20:56 you realize this stems from all the clutter in my life.
20:59 Never feeling like I had a place.
21:01 There were some real issues come up, some root issues
21:06 come up, so as you are shining your sink did any of
21:10 those root issues come up for you?
21:12 Yeah because I hate doing my dishes, that is one of the
21:16 things I just hated doing.
21:18 You know, and laundry that was another big thing for me,
21:21 is I just hate those two things.
21:23 So I really had to put myself, my wants aside and say
21:28 I'm going to do this.
21:30 I'm going to do it for, because I know it is good
21:34 for me, but also because I know it will be a
21:36 blessing to my family.
21:37 And one of the things that Fly Lady says is housework
21:39 done incorrectly, still blesses your family.
21:42 And that is what I wanted.
21:44 Say that again, that's cool!
21:46 Housework done incorrectly, still blesses your family.
21:49 What I am finding when I work with a lot of people coming
21:53 out of jail's, coming out of rehab centers, out of all
21:56 that stuff, is that we do not know how to set up a home.
22:01 Nobody set up a home for us and that could curse us our
22:05 whole life or we can baby step and just change that.
22:10 And the baby step for this particular Ministry was shine
22:15 your sink, clean out your sink.
22:17 But not just clean it out, not just clean it out,
22:21 what is hysterical and it sounds so simple, but not cleaning
22:25 it out, shine it up, get a toothbrush if
22:28 you have to and get every single thing shined up about it.
22:32 I want this to look like it could go into a
22:35 Better Homes Magazine photo.
22:37 So I got into it, which is ridiculous, ridiculous.
22:41 But I got into it and what was really interesting, is the
22:44 Holy Spirit started telling me do little tiny things.
22:48 One of the little tiny things was the fact that you
22:51 were punished with housework and therefore
22:54 you do not want to do it.
22:55 I thought well okay.
22:58 So you are going to heal every time you do it.
23:01 I am thinking it oh man, I don't want to do it.
23:05 I know, and I heard God even say, I know.
23:08 So tell me, because you didn't stop at the sink.
23:11 No, and usually I think that is her trick because you
23:15 just don't stop at the sink.
23:16 You see the sink looking good it spreads to the counters,
23:20 and you just start to get rid of junk.
23:22 You start to get rid of the clutter.
23:24 That really is so freeing, that you are able to get rid
23:33 of all that junk.
23:34 It feels like almost a spiritual or emotional junk too.
23:38 I'm cleaning all that out.
23:40 I don't need this, that I can trust in God to take care
23:43 of me, if I ever need then again He will provide it.
23:47 I don't need to keep it.
23:48 That's huge, you actually then went beyond on that and
23:54 just started to organize your day, your calendar,
23:57 talk a little bit about that.
23:59 Do you know where your insurance information is?
24:02 I do, we have got our, one of the things that Fly Lady
24:06 teaches us is about a Control Journal.
24:08 You put all this information into one spot so you got it.
24:13 In case you need it, like an emergency or something.
24:17 So we have all of our emergency phone numbers in the
24:20 Control Journal, we have our blood types, we have our
24:23 doctors names, number, everything.
24:27 Oh you know I haven't gotten there yet?
24:29 Oh you are going to love the Control Journal, we do.
24:32 Then we wrote down like routines come because another
24:35 thing that Fly Lady teaches is that morning and evening
24:40 routines, which eventually it gets so habitual that
24:43 you do not even have to think about it, you just do it.
24:46 So that has been a blessing for us too.
24:49 Okay we are going to come back, we're going to go
24:51 on break and come back.
24:53 I want you to meet the entire family.
24:55 And please if you think this is just about housecleaning,
24:59 housekeeping or cleaning the sink or whatever,
25:01 it is not at all.
25:04 I'm so surprised how damaged we are, how much we don't do
25:08 for our families and our selves in our home, that when we
25:12 start doing it, God through the Holy Spirit starts changing
25:15 us in ways that we will never go back to old addictions.
25:19 It is weird that He does that with the kitchen sink.
25:22 It is amazing to me so I guess spirituality is all that
25:26 including the kitchen sink.
25:27 So we will be right back, stay with us.