Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Ron Woolsey
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00040B
00:14 Welcome back, there was one thing said on the last session
00:17 that I just have to ask you to clarify.
00:20 Because you said something about Christian counseling
00:22 not being a good thing, a good experience for you.
00:24 You didn't mean all Christian counselors per se.
00:26 No of course not, I'm sure, I know there are many Godly
00:32 counselors - are really consulate this very minute.
00:34 He is so good, alright.
00:36 Very, very good counseling.
00:37 My experience at that time was disappointing to me and
00:40 that is why when I was working my way back, I did not
00:43 I did not trust because I did not know who to go to.
00:46 How do you find a good one?
00:48 Right and you hadn't had that experience.
00:50 So I want you to continue on and talk to us about the
00:56 fact that you are now bringing that whole Left Behind.
01:01 I love when you said that, that Left Behind thing that
01:04 your parents are giving you all the stuff and now you
01:06 finally opened up, first of all Steps to Christ.
01:08 So what happened, what was your next couple steps?
01:12 Well I could read Steps to Christ, I could read the book
01:15 Great Controversy until 2 and 3 clock the morning.
01:18 But you know Cheri, when you read these books, it
01:21 cultivates a taste for the Bible and spiritual things,
01:24 because there is scripture on every page.
01:26 So as it cultivated that taste I was able to start
01:30 opening the Bible and reading more and more to where I
01:33 was reading the Bible until 2 and 3 in the morning.
01:36 And using the other books as a reference and commentary.
01:40 I found my answers through the Word of God.
01:45 Share with me some of the things that you found it really
01:48 affected you, that really changed your life.
01:50 Well, there was a pivotal text that I had, I mean, I
01:53 have many texts in fact on my website
01:56 I have a featured article entitled
01:58 A Rainbow of Promises.
02:01 I have just a whole list of text, a power pack of
02:04 promise after promise after promise.
02:06 By the time you get through your praising the Lord because
02:09 you know, you can have victory.
02:10 Over anything - yes - not just this issue, anything - right.
02:13 Of course, my experience is to help people realize they
02:17 can have victory over anything.
02:19 But this is my experience, it is the road I came through.
02:22 I've had people come to me after hearing my story and say Pastor
02:25 Ron, if God can save you He can save anybody.
02:28 I'll say you've got the point, of course,
02:31 that's the whole point.
02:32 My testimony is my story, you have yours, and she has
02:36 hers, but the gospel is for everybody.
02:39 If we will look at our issues as sins issues,
02:42 the remedy is the same.
02:44 It is when we try to excuse our behavior as an acceptable
02:48 alternative lifestyle, or a genetic issue, or a
02:53 psychological thing, or I'm Italian, I'm supposed be
02:56 angry, you know, that type of thing.
02:57 If we deal with our issues as sin issues the formula is
03:02 all the same the remedy is all the same.
03:04 But I went to a pastor I had heard him speak, and I
03:08 was so blown away by his presentation because this
03:11 is where I got the rainbow of promises actually to start
03:13 with, and then I've grown it.
03:15 His whole sermon was one promise after another after
03:18 another as responsive reading.
03:20 I was so impressed I called him up when I found out
03:23 that he lived near where I was.
03:25 I went to visit him and told him my story, and I had
03:28 never told anybody outside of my life the story.
03:31 I thought he would fall over in a dead faint, but he didn't.
03:35 He evidently had seen it before, and he just, while I was
03:38 talking he just calmly turned in his Bible to
03:41 1 Corinthians 6 verses 9-11.
03:43 Okay, go ahead, share with us.
03:48 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit
03:51 the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators,
03:56 nor idolaters, nor a adulterers, nor effeminate, nor
04:00 abusers of themselves with mankind. "
04:02 "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers,
04:06 nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. "
04:09 Now when you read that you think, oh I'm in trouble.
04:12 Oh, I was squirming it nailed me 3 or 4 times.
04:15 On 3 or 4 different issues - yeah.
04:18 And then he said, he looked right at me and said and
04:21 "such were some of you. "
04:23 Amen - and he paused, "but ye are washed, but ye are
04:28 sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord
04:32 Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. "
04:33 And I was so uncomfortable, I sat there and did
04:37 another stupid thing.
04:38 What - I kind of snickered and said you made that up.
04:42 That's not what it says.
04:44 Do you know he did?
04:45 He said, let me read it again and I go oh no!
04:48 So he read it again - oh no! So he read it again.
04:51 Read it again - in the interest of time it is okay - yeah.
04:54 Yeah I think we read it again.
04:56 And he just nailed me.
04:57 And I just felt so small, "Know ye not that the
05:01 unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
05:03 Be not deceived:" let no one tell you otherwise.
05:08 neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor a adulterers,
05:13 nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. "
05:16 You can call it whatever you want, it is right there - right!
05:20 "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers,
05:24 nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God, and
05:28 "such were some of you. "
05:30 And then he turned it around - and said look at this.
05:34 I had to look at it and then he just, like a good
05:36 salesman, he sat there and looked at me.
05:38 Waiting for me to respond, I was speechless.
05:41 Finally, he said Ron, I don't have to tell you what to do,
05:45 do I? You know what you need to do.
05:47 I didn't go there to make a decision, I just went there
05:50 to open dialogue, I wanted information.
05:53 But I'll tell you Cheri, when I went home that night, I
05:56 was confronted by my partner.
05:58 He said, are you going to go for all that Jesus stuff?
06:03 I started to lie because I just didn't want to be confronted.
06:09 I finally said you know it would only get worse if I don't.
06:14 I finally said yes I am.
06:17 So I took a step, all hell broke loose.
06:21 He said, I feel like breaking things, and he went through
06:25 the house and just broke all kinds of things.
06:28 Throwing things, just demonic.
06:30 He was so devastated, he was so hurt, but inside, and I
06:35 was traumatized, but inside I thought did I really say that?
06:38 I just took a step and that was a step and it was on
06:43 that text, Cheri, there is power in the word.
06:47 And when you read these promises of God, they enable
06:51 you, they empower you to take steps.
06:56 Then you read another one and you act upon that one, and
06:59 you act upon that one.
07:00 I studied my way to freedom without ever going
07:03 to the counselors.
07:04 Now I am not saying don't ever go to one, because
07:06 I are one too now, you know.
07:08 Well, you know is what I want to say, as you read
07:10 through the Word of God, what is really interesting is
07:13 saying you know this is damage.
07:14 We are not going to bring all this damage into heaven or
07:18 into Christianity or whatever.
07:20 God is saying I want to hear you from that I'm not going
07:22 to condemn but I want you to clearly put it out there that
07:27 if you're lying, stealing, sleeping around with everybody.
07:29 If you're in lifestyles that are damaging to you,
07:32 God is saying stop.
07:34 Because I don't call that health and I'm never going to
07:38 excuse but I'm going to give you every single,
07:40 I'm going to love you into healing.
07:43 I'm going to love you ready to healing place.
07:45 Well, He's the Creator and the Re-Creator.
07:47 By the word of the Lord for the heavens made.
07:49 Can't He re-create the same way?
07:52 I mean through the Word can He not re-create us from the
07:56 inside out as we partake of His flesh, you know.
08:01 as we partake - I'm going to introduce you
08:03 to some of my friends that came in.
08:05 Just for the show, just to meet you to just be blessed by you
08:09 and what you are doing in your ministry.
08:11 First of all, I'd like to introduce you to KJ.
08:14 KJ, do you have something you would like share with him.
08:17 Before we even go there, I want to ask you to let him
08:22 know who you are first, share your testimony.
08:24 Okay, I would say that it parallels his somewhat.
08:27 In junior high was in love with one of my teachers.
08:30 I kept thinking this is so guilty a can't be this way,
08:34 oh, this is awful.
08:35 The older I got the more I was attracted to him more and
08:39 more and I finally acted out went into a lifestyle.
08:42 It was so comfortable, it was like oh this is where
08:47 I'm supposed to be.
08:48 And then I start drinking, and that was trying to kill
08:52 that guilt I was dealing with.
08:54 Because you're from a Christian home - yes.
08:56 An incredible Christian home, loving mom.
08:59 A loving mom, I would say there were issues in my family
09:03 that came along that I didn't know about all I got older.
09:07 My dad was an alcoholic and a full-blown alcoholic.
09:09 In a didn't know it, I did know why was getting hit or any
09:11 of those things.
09:13 So which is comfortable for me to be with women rather
09:16 than to go and be with men.
09:18 He might hit me, he might do that.
09:20 So I found that to be rather a comfortable thing.
09:23 But along with it came so many other issues that I just
09:27 didn't want to have.
09:29 It wasn't until, I think my major turning point was, you
09:34 just want a loving relationship.
09:35 There is nothing wrong with wanting a loving
09:38 relationship, God doesn't have any problem with that.
09:41 The problem is that it is not with women.
09:45 That was my turning point I would say.
09:48 And so Ron, what do you think because she is saying that
09:52 even coming to the point where she knew in her heart, KJ
09:55 in your heart you new it was the truth.
09:57 I so want to be loved you don't even know.
10:00 And now I've got addiction on top of addiction
10:02 on top of an addiction.
10:04 I feel locked in here.
10:05 This is so true that we want to be loved and if we feel
10:09 unloved, I felt unloved by my father and by my brothers.
10:15 They put me down and called me a sissy, because
10:17 I played the piano.
10:18 Because I didn't do what they did.
10:20 You know, we want that affection from our same gender.
10:25 But we have to look for love and the parameters that
10:31 God has established.
10:32 It's like in the garden of Eden, people could say well,
10:35 but God created that tree.
10:38 How could that be bad?
10:40 Well, He put a fence around it, that's a spiritual fence
10:42 around it, and says don't go there.
10:44 I have learned that maybe KJ, you have learned this by
10:46 now to that when you are tempted in some of these areas.
10:50 You just simply say, well, that is on the
10:52 other side of the fence.
10:53 It is not an option.
10:54 God has given me a world of wonderful options,
10:57 that's not one of them.
10:59 You look for love in the right places, and let Him
11:04 develop that for you.
11:07 Now it doesn't come immediately either, you know - but
11:11 there's, what is real interesting to me because I have
11:13 been with so much dysfunction as far as my mom and dad
11:17 and all that kind of stuff.
11:18 Not knowing how to love, there is some healing that the
11:20 Holy Spirit does with us by teaching us for one, how to
11:24 pick out trustworthy people.
11:26 We'll continue to pick out mom and dad for the rest of
11:29 our lives if we don't learn some of those things.
11:31 There's some things to learn in that and what's really fun,
11:34 and KJ I know that she really experienced it.
11:37 What's really fun to me is when God literally heals us
11:40 and we start being in those safe places.
11:43 It's like no way, don't you just want to cry sometimes and
11:47 say how cool is it?
11:48 Yes - to be safe, to be in love - and that's the thing
11:52 you are talking about the church being able to pull us in.
11:55 Instead, oh, you are lesbian oh my, you know, I can't
12:01 sit next to you or talk to you or whatever.
12:02 Because they are afraid of you and they don't know
12:04 how to take it.
12:05 And it is that, it is that wonderful thing when you open
12:07 it up, the one text that sticks out for me, we all have one,
12:10 is I constantly prayed I want a way out of this lifestyle.
12:14 What I found is that God said, all right pickup James,
12:18 start reading James.
12:19 And I got down it wasn't very far, it says if you lack
12:22 wisdom, if any of you lack wisdom, just ask and He will
12:25 give it to you.
12:27 I have prayed for wisdom, the rest of my life.
12:29 I'll always pray for wisdom.
12:30 He gives us in Philippians 2:13 it says it is God that
12:35 works in us to will and to do.
12:38 He gives us the desire, the Holy Spirit gives us repentance.
12:42 Repentance is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
12:45 So, if we are willing to accept the gift He gives us the
12:48 desire and the ability to follow through on that desire.
12:52 God works in us - because in repentance, one thing
12:56 about repentance in my own life is not so much this issue.
12:58 And I have a number of issues in a glad I don't have
13:00 this one to but this issue is the fact that I want God
13:06 to show me the ramifications of what is hurtful about this issue
13:10 What is hurtful about sin, and when I see that I can
13:12 come to Him in true repentance and say I see it.
13:16 I see that this is not arbitrary not that You somehow want to
13:20 take something from me that is good.
13:22 You are trying to teach me, what is harmful about that
13:24 and how I get twisted in that.
13:26 We have one more a friend of mine has come in from
13:29 Pennsylvania, and I have to say that she is one
13:32 of my favorite people.
13:33 And Rosetta I just went to you thank you so much for
13:36 coming here, thank you so much for being brave enough to
13:41 just say out loud, who you are more you have come from.
13:45 So I'm going to ask you the same thing.
13:46 To give little of your testimony, and what do you think
13:49 about what Ron has said?
13:51 Well first of all want to thank you for the opportunity
13:54 to be able to tell my testimony, because that has been a
13:56 real struggle for me is to be able to be honest.
14:00 To be able to say, I always tell people if you only knew
14:05 me when I was twenty one you wouldn't want to be in the
14:08 same room with me let alone talk to me.
14:10 Because you were so angry and so damaged
14:12 that I wanted to die.
14:15 I drank to die, I drank to go into bars that were so
14:19 dangerous that people were getting stabbed.
14:21 I just felt that if they killed me and put it in the
14:26 newspaper, I was killed in a gay bar then I
14:28 gotten even with my parents.
14:30 That was my way of getting even for all the hurt.
14:33 I ended up going through, sexual abuse when
14:38 I was very young at 7.
14:40 I grew up in an alcoholic - but somebody, I know you
14:42 some I'm going to jump in, when somebody says sexual
14:44 abuse, you were raped as a little girl.
14:47 By a number of kids down the street - three guys - right.
14:50 And I don't want to offend anyone, but that is huge.
14:54 So when you stepped away from really any sex at first,
14:58 either male or female - couldn't even identified male or female.
15:02 The only way I could tell the difference between a man
15:05 and a woman, was that woman had long hair
15:07 and men had short hair.
15:08 Then eventually, I don't remember what age it changed, I
15:12 could finally said that women have breasts and men don't.
15:15 But at first you would even let them have a body.
15:17 No, nobody, it was so bad, plus the physical
15:22 abuse I was getting at home.
15:24 Verbal abuse, I went for adult treatment for adult
15:28 treatment for alcoholics, and they told me that they
15:30 never read, when they wrote four types of abuse, I just
15:35 wrote all of the above.
15:36 They said they never heard such a story, but the good
15:41 news is that God, in His mercy said, when Christian
15:46 would say to me that you need to be broken, I would just weep.
15:49 Because I was already beaten, and it wasn't until God
15:53 finally said in my heart.
15:55 He said Rosetta, you are already broken, I want your
15:58 pieces, let me have them all your pieces so
16:01 you can have wholeness.
16:02 So, you are jumping into this lifestyle.
16:05 Somebody gets you to a meeting, and I want you to tell them
16:09 about that because it just cracked me up to think you're
16:12 lovers mom was a Christian and just loved on you forever.
16:16 She just loved me to death, and I finally said to her.
16:18 Why did you do that, why did you love me?
16:20 She said what you were the best thing she drug home yet.
16:23 So was kind of like this lost puppy that finally got
16:26 rescued, and this woman loved me.
16:29 All I knew was I couldn't understand why she cooked
16:32 funny, didn't understand why she didn't do things on
16:34 Saturday, all I knew was when I looked in her eyes she
16:39 had something I didn't have.
16:41 If there's one thing I know of a person, at least in my
16:44 experience the lifestyle is, I knew I was going to hell.
16:47 I knew I was a sinner, what I didn't know was how
16:51 do I get out of here?
16:52 How do you get out of here and this woman loved me.
16:55 So you end up at a meeting go ahead and tell me about that.
16:58 I was at a meeting in Michigan, Camp Meeting and I can
17:01 remember going by and I'm saying to my friend, what these
17:04 people don't smoke.
17:05 They don't drink, I mean, there's miles of tents, and
17:07 I'm like unbelievable, you know.
17:10 I'm just like right there, I smoke, I drink, I do joints.
17:15 Anyhow we get to the meeting, and here's
17:19 H. M. S. Richards, Jr. is preaching.
17:21 On the last night I had been there every night and on
17:24 the last night. He is standing up there, and I'm on the
17:28 balcony, because it was so crowded everybody was there.
17:30 He's saying. I'm not going to stop because he feels
17:34 impressed - I'm having an altar call - he is.
17:36 There is someone here that is supposed to come forward.
17:39 I'm up in the balcony, I'm hanging onto the railing, my
17:43 hands are turning yellow because the blood is not there.
17:45 I mean, I am gripping and my heart is feeling like it's
17:49 coming out and I'm yelling no! no! no!
17:52 I look at my friend, a you know, what we need to do?
17:55 I am oh no, and finally, it seemed like forever to get
18:01 my hands off the railing, and he waited.
18:03 Because I had to go up the back of the balcony and down the
18:07 steps and up this aisle.
18:09 He says that he is going to pray for every person that
18:13 came forward, I don't remember how many it was.
18:15 We were the last and when we came, we told him
18:19 what struggles we had.
18:20 And if ever in my life I ever met Jesus, it was with that man.
18:23 Because he didn't judge you, you said,
18:25 we are in the lesbian lifestyle.
18:27 He just wrapped his arms around us.
18:29 I mean, my head is in his armpit, and he just prayed and
18:33 prayed and asked God and he promised to send material to
18:35 help us, and he kept his promise.
18:38 From that time on, it was just amazing.
18:41 I landed up in the little church, and there was little
18:44 lady I sat next to and I wore slacks.
18:47 One day just said it's okay for you to wear slacks.
18:50 She checked the Bible, she said, as long as
18:53 they are not men's pants.
18:55 And she just, God sent me there, she was tone death and
19:00 the only voice she could hear was mine.
19:02 She was getting ready to leave the church, but she
19:05 searched her Bible to make sure that it was okay that
19:08 I could be there.
19:09 But you know, I just want to say, for one, I am so
19:13 thrilled that you're here.
19:14 I'm so thrilled that you here, so thrilled that you let
19:17 go of the railing and came up.
19:19 I'm so thrilled that God has brought you to this place.
19:22 Ron, you know, what they are talking about when you talk
19:26 about just being petrified, coming out of this lifestyle.
19:31 It is like will be Church even open their doors.
19:34 Does God even want me back.
19:37 So when you get that sense for the first time, not only
19:40 does He want me back, but I think He's calling.
19:42 I think He is waiting just for me, I think He will not
19:45 go on with this until I hear this and the joy that
19:49 comes in our heart.
19:50 That is huge! - it is and we need to realize the
19:54 church, I heard this said in Romania were we do mission work.
19:57 One of our dear friends over, said Pastor Ron the
19:59 church is a hospital.
20:01 Yes, the church is a hospital, and you have people of
20:04 all levels of health and illness within that hospital.
20:08 If we would look at it that way, we would welcome anyone
20:12 to come for help and healing.
20:15 And some people are terminally ill, some people are
20:19 chronically ill, some are just in with a sniffle.
20:22 But we help them and if they need surgery they get
20:26 surgery, they go to the recovery room.
20:28 Eventually, they need to come out of the recovery room.
20:30 Go to nursing school and come back and work.
20:33 So we need to realize in John 8: verse 36, I think.
20:39 It says when the Son sets you free, you are free indeed.
20:42 We can be healed, we can be healthy in the Lord.
20:46 We can be strong for other people and help them
20:50 come out of their illnesses, their spiritual illnesses.
20:55 But God delights in doing what He has done for you
21:00 Rosetta, He delights when all heaven rejoices when
21:04 someone like you repents.
21:06 I me that is just thrilling.
21:07 I remember when I was baptized, I remember thinking all
21:10 heaven is having a party tonight.
21:13 Right now because of me, and I was someone who had felt
21:16 so worthless, and so unimportant so insignificant, and to
21:22 realize Jesus does not want to spend eternity without you.
21:27 He will miss you if you are not there.
21:31 And that is why He has done what He has done and
21:33 why He is doing what He is doing.
21:35 I need to share this quote to if I may - yes.
21:38 "Through all ages and in all nations. Those who believe
21:41 that Jesus can and will save them personally", it is
21:46 very personal, "from sin are the elect and chosen of
21:50 God. His peculiar treasure - isn't that amazing.
21:54 They obey His call, they come out from the world and
21:58 they separate themselves from every unclean thought
22:01 and unholy practice. "
22:03 That's what Jesus wants to do for each and everyone of
22:06 us - I heard people say, and it might be
22:10 around that same quote.
22:11 Is the very folks that we are, the more damaged you are,
22:16 the distance you come to come back to God, and to be
22:21 there with Him, that those folks are going to be sitting
22:24 at the very feet of Jesus in heaven.
22:26 And I'm like, I don't go how true that is, but I like that.
22:29 Because I'm going to be right there, do you know what I mean?
22:32 I'm so grandiose I'm thinking that
22:33 I'm going to be just right there.
22:34 But God is not so put off by us that we are going to be
22:38 just in the crowd, but God says your name.
22:40 I know every single time you stood up.
22:43 I know when you stood up and fell down.
22:44 I know when this grips you again and you finally let it go again.
22:51 I just want you to know that I am there, every moment of
22:55 this recovery, every moment of this journey, every time
22:57 you stand up and you are thrilled.
22:59 Man I'm a woman of God, instead of I think I'm a
23:05 lesbian, or heroine addict, I think I have a porn
23:08 addiction, I think I am the man or woman of God,
23:10 standing in the presence of a holy God and belonging here.
23:13 How cool is that!
23:15 We should not let the nature of our temptations define
23:18 who we are, because Jesus was tempted in all points like
23:22 as we are, yet without sin.
23:25 We're done, thank you for joining us.
23:27 Thank you for having me - thank you for being brave
23:30 enough to share this testimony.
23:31 Thanks for the opportunity.
23:35 We are going ahead and take a break and come right back
23:36 Stay with us!
23:38 But weren't you grabbed by this and wowed by this?
23:40 When ever I see that God is no respecter of our damage.
23:44 He says, if you are damaged in any area step up,
23:46 cause I'm ready.
23:47 We'll be right back!