Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Damas Manderson
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000135B
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:13 Welcome back,
00:15 so we're talking about what happens
00:16 when there's trouble in paradise,
00:18 what happens when all of the sudden everything
00:20 that you have really fought for, worked for,
00:25 you felt like, you know, I've got all the right motives
00:28 because what you're saying is,
00:29 I did it all for what you believed at the time,
00:31 the right reasons and now you're living in the US,
00:35 you're trying to find help for your child who,
00:38 all the doctors are saying,
00:40 this is a rare case and she will not probably even survive
00:46 and you're just, wanted to scream.
00:49 How is Dina doing during all of this?
00:51 Oh, Dina.
00:54 First of all, she's absolutely amazing,
00:57 how she adapted her attitude
00:59 around the challenge immediately
01:01 and her attitude was very positive.
01:06 Obviously very traumatized by the, you know,
01:11 by the diagnosis and her view like mine was,
01:15 you can plan your life for the rest of your life
01:17 but in the twinkling of an eye,
01:20 your whole life is just
01:21 completely changed in front of you
01:23 and the way that Dina adapted to that...
01:26 'Cause she's saying, the reality was there for her
01:29 but she's not angry at anyone, she's saying,
01:32 how do we do this now?
01:35 She always smiles, she always laughs,
01:39 she had got brilliant attitude, she'd always smile,
01:42 she was up to the challenge...
01:45 I've been in your house. Yeah.
01:46 And she does always smile. She always smiles.
01:48 You know, you walk out feeling like, you know,
01:50 there is a strength that she has...
01:52 That I want some of that.
01:54 Oh, she has incredible strength and in fact,
01:56 her strength has impacted my life positively
02:00 through the challenging times.
02:03 Not so say we haven't had
02:04 our own personal challenges through this...
02:07 'Cause we have, we're not perfect.
02:08 Yet and all of that, you know,
02:10 Dina has stayed the same all the way through.
02:12 She smiled, she's always been up for the challenge,
02:15 she'll do whatever it takes to give Kennedy Rose, Miles...
02:17 What do we do next? Where do we go?
02:18 Yep, yes.
02:20 You know, just be proactive,
02:21 organizing the therapy treatments,
02:23 the doctor's visits, tracking down a pediatrician
02:27 who was an expert in the area of Cri-du-chat,
02:31 probably seen the most in his life
02:33 and that was 15, in America.
02:35 In his whole life, yeah.
02:36 In America, yeah. Yeah.
02:38 From New York to Indiana, he moved from New York.
02:41 She was always on the,
02:42 you know, she was just dedicated,
02:46 it's almost like she knew her purpose in life.
02:50 You know, she knew that if this is what was given to us
02:53 and if God had allowed this to happen,
02:56 then she was ready for it.
02:57 How do we do it? Yeah.
02:59 And so, on one hand, she's trying to look at that
03:02 but she's looking at you as your wife
03:06 because it's hard to hide from our spouse,
03:09 she's looking at you knowing that you are melting down.
03:11 That you are angry, that this is not okay with you,
03:14 I'm not gonna accept this, where do we need to go?
03:17 Where can we get help?
03:18 God, where are you?
03:20 So she's trying not to lose you in the process of all of this.
03:25 She's trying very hard not to lose me
03:28 and keep me focused
03:29 'cause she probably knew
03:31 a little bit more about me than I knew about myself.
03:35 And to be disrupted like that.
03:39 At no point in time,
03:40 did we think or consider that
03:42 Kennedy Rose wasn't part of our family.
03:45 She was completely embraced and loved unconditionally.
03:50 It was the challenges of,
03:52 no one gives you an instruction book
03:54 with the syndrome like this and says,
03:56 "Hi, you know, this is the step A
03:59 and then you can go to B."
04:00 There was nothing.
04:02 So we are literally finding our way in the abyss,
04:05 so to speak and Dina just, straight down the line, man,
04:09 she's just lots of love, lots of commitment,
04:12 lots of dedication, lots of research.
04:14 Do whatever it takes attitude and smile,
04:17 all the way through it.
04:19 And you're shutting down. Me, I'm angry.
04:20 Oh, good friend of mine, Robert Dickwell,
04:23 he had his own general construction company,
04:24 I say, give me a hammer.
04:27 And so after hitting, just went in,
04:29 bangs nails and knocked wood
04:30 and I was angry and he had to put up with me saying,
04:32 "What kind of a bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleeping
04:34 God would do a bleep, bleep, bleep,
04:35 after He performed a miracle with my..."
04:37 you know, and here's Dina just getting busy
04:39 to straight down with it in and at that point
04:45 Dina and I realized that
04:48 in order for our family to stay engaged as a family,
04:52 that there was no room for me to be an entrepreneur
04:54 or a businessman in America,
04:56 which is what I said to God.
04:58 What did she mean by that?
04:59 'Cause she's saying, you know, I can't have you, doing what?
05:03 Well, for me, it was like, "Hey, God,
05:06 this is your daughter that you gave to me.
05:08 So if I'm gonna step out in faith
05:10 and give America a go,
05:12 then I'm gonna lift up my arms
05:13 and I'm gonna say, 'Bless me.' "
05:16 Because I'm walking away
05:18 from my multimillion dollar business,
05:19 I'm sitting on the pig's back.
05:22 My wife is used to a lifestyle, you know,
05:25 "Come on, man, let's do this."
05:26 I can't have God drop a beat. Yeah.
05:28 "Yeah, come on, God, you owe me.
05:30 I mean, after all, you've planted her in my life."
05:32 That was my attitude.
05:34 And we say that now casually,
05:37 because you have really confronted that...
05:39 Oh, big time.
05:40 But that was your attitude. That was.
05:42 It's like, you know what, God?
05:44 I can't give back to you if you don't fix this.
05:50 It's like, you need me almost.
05:52 Yeah, it was my conditional love
05:55 to an unconditional loving Father.
05:59 He's so gracious.
06:01 So that was our journey.
06:02 So I started closing up.
06:04 I started getting really better
06:06 and really twisted
06:07 and so when Dina and I sat down and talked and I realized,
06:12 I did some homework,
06:14 so 80-90 percent of families end up in divorce
06:16 'cause they just can't handle the stress of it.
06:20 The normal child gets left behind
06:22 because all the focus is on the special needs child.
06:26 If you do stay together,
06:27 you normally just learn to exist
06:29 because of your crisis management everyday.
06:31 All the time, you put the fires out.
06:32 All the time.
06:34 Yeah, you know, I know what adrenal fatigue is,
06:37 your fight or flight just doesn't stop.
06:40 When your daughter...
06:42 You up four, five, six, seven, eight times at night,
06:45 just listening if she's breathing
06:47 because you wonder she's gonna spontaneously die,
06:48 that was Dina and I for seven years
06:50 before we finally gave it up to the Lord.
06:53 Yeah, I started to tarry and especially,
06:56 when I realized that, "Okay, I'm gonna...
06:58 Here's one for you, God."
07:00 I'm gonna be the responsible father and husband here
07:02 and I'm not gonna be an entrepreneur,
07:04 I'm not gonna build a business,
07:06 I'm just gonna focus on my family,
07:07 that's my duty,
07:09 that's my choice and that's my desire.
07:12 So there we go and...
07:14 I had a plenty of money in New Zealand, you know,
07:16 I'll just sell a couple of houses,
07:17 two or three years old, re-evaluate.
07:20 So once you've fixed this, I'll be fine.
07:22 I'll fix it.
07:23 I'll fix it. Yeah.
07:25 Yeah, we like to fix things.
07:27 Of course, two or three years into it
07:29 and we didn't even see any response
07:32 out of Kennedy Rose
07:34 that show that what we were doing was working.
07:35 At that point, I realized that we're in for a long haul
07:40 and at that point,
07:41 I realized that my identity was rapidly changing
07:48 and I started to discover who I really was
07:51 and I definitely was not planted
07:54 in my security in Jesus.
07:57 You know, and so I really,
07:59 when you start to see that all of the motives
08:02 that I thought were good,
08:04 all of the stuff I thought were spot on,
08:07 when God says, "Can I show you who you actually are?
08:11 Can I show you your character?" Yeah.
08:13 And He does it so graciously but it is a shock
08:18 and so what you're saying is I start to see that.
08:20 Yeah, yeah,
08:23 I see very clearly now that God is gentle,
08:27 you know, and if...
08:29 We got to be careful what we pray for
08:31 'cause if I asked Him,
08:34 " A once upon a time to reveal Himself to me as my Father,
08:38 so that I can put my trust and security in Him."
08:42 Now easy words...
08:45 Some way.
08:46 But I gave Him permission to really examine my life.
08:48 Even though scripture word says, search me.
08:51 Oh, God, yeah.
08:53 Search me and God says, "Really?"
08:56 Yeah, and He's so gentle
08:58 but it's like we have no idea
09:00 that the things that He has to kind of knock over
09:03 before He can actually get us to be real enough
09:07 to step into our own skin.
09:10 And Dina being as strong as she is, you know,
09:12 her quiet times are in the middle of the night,
09:14 when I would wake up and she's crying.
09:19 And you can't fix it. Can't fix it.
09:21 I don't know what to do.
09:24 I'm used to fixing things,
09:25 I'm used to creating an environment.
09:30 From scratch, something beautiful.
09:35 And I can't do it in my own home.
09:36 And I got really,
09:38 that was the beginning of stripping back
09:40 the layers of my life
09:41 and it hurts,
09:45 but you get to the point where you're in so deep,
09:47 you may as well see what the other side looks like.
09:49 You start to lose everything. I lost.
09:52 Damas to develop her was going fast
09:55 and Damas that had
09:56 "All this property investments and money in his bank"
09:58 was going,
10:00 every month, every year, for a total of 10 years.
10:04 And went from hero to zero in 10 years, by choice,
10:08 not by bad decisions, not by bad investments,
10:12 it was by choice.
10:14 I believed whole heartedly
10:16 that it's my family was more important than anything else.
10:20 And I remember that going through this I thought,
10:22 "Lord, I'm done.
10:23 I'm screwed.
10:25 I don't know how to bring my family back."
10:28 "I'm doing my best to be obedient,
10:30 it hurts like right now."
10:34 "Help, I don't even know who I am in your eyes."
10:37 When I saw you on that day at the parking lot at car port,
10:43 you were everything and you said,
10:46 "If I could kill myself today, I would be fine with that."
10:50 You were working at what job at that time?
10:53 So when we moved back to New Zealand,
10:55 back in...
10:58 End of 2013-14,
11:03 it was mainly because I was developing
11:04 some health issues in Indiana.
11:06 The environment there was getting to me and I set out,
11:09 end up pretty sick but I said the cancer would
11:13 because of the indicators in my body,
11:15 so they said, "Go back to New Zealand,
11:16 your immune system can't handle the mid-west environment,
11:19 you weren't born and bred here."
11:21 So it was the hardest decision,
11:23 to take my daughter away from her therapy treatments
11:26 and medical support.
11:28 My son, he's been there since the age of four.
11:31 And moved back for me,
11:33 we moved back to New Zealand for me and my health
11:36 and I'd secured what I thought was a really good job
11:38 where I was asked to develop a sub-division, a community
11:42 and the "mental health" for the government
11:44 where the philosophy was,
11:47 "It takes a village to raise a child"
11:48 and now that really got me
11:50 because I'm like, "Yes, it's all about family."
11:52 We moved family and then the God changes His mind,
11:55 He says, "It's too big for me to do right now, I'm sorry."
11:57 I said, "I just moved my family over,
11:59 I pulled my daughter.
12:02 Whenever I've finished with that conversation,
12:04 I thought I was low when I came to New Zealand,
12:07 I was dead after that conversation,
12:09 I thought I have just down..."
12:10 No money, no promises, no job.
12:12 No money, no promises, no job, no nothing
12:14 and I've just taken my daughter away from,
12:17 what took us years to get to the best
12:20 therapeutic medical support that she needed.
12:24 And the shame, the guilt
12:27 and just emotions that I couldn't even describe,
12:31 just hit me so hard.
12:33 So John knew that I was back in town
12:37 and I hadn't seen him for 15, 16, 18 years and of course,
12:42 he works at the Fiestum.
12:45 He's a CEO there...
12:46 Good friend, very successful guy.
12:47 Very successful guy and I was his first friend
12:52 when he first moved to Oakland, when I was like 16-17.
12:56 So we've known each other for a long time,
12:57 had some good times
12:59 and then we just didn't see each other for ever.
13:00 He finds out I'm in New Zealand,
13:02 rings me up and says,
13:03 "Hi, I know maintenance and stuff isn't your cup of tea
13:07 but my maintenance guy is going on vacation,
13:09 would you end up filling in for him for a while?
13:12 This is, I know,
13:13 that's probably insulting to your intelligence but maybe,
13:16 it would be good for you right now."
13:18 And I said, "I'll take it, I'll take it."
13:20 You'll take anything.
13:21 I haven't worked for anyone for 25 years,
13:26 it's all been about
13:28 what I've been able to do as an entrepreneur.
13:31 Outside of my apprenticeship
13:33 and a couple of recreational things,
13:34 there's always been, me.
13:36 So I was thankful for the job and I was just,
13:40 in a way laughing at myself and thinking, "Wow,
13:43 I'm changing light bulbs and I'm cleaning out toilets
13:46 and I'm mowing lawns."
13:51 And yet I was thankful,
13:53 I was actually quite happy to be doing that
13:56 'cause I was gone and I was so depressed
13:59 and so destroyed from the previous meeting
14:01 that I actually found it difficult
14:03 to even change a light bulb.
14:05 It was interesting to me...
14:06 When I met you,
14:08 when I say, it felt like I was talking to a walking dead guy.
14:13 When I looked in your eyes
14:14 and I thought and I just felt like,
14:16 God just stopped, it's like,
14:18 "I don't care whose around us right now
14:21 but I literally want to know what is up? How are you?"
14:25 And so when you said about, you know,
14:28 that you didn't think that you were gonna make it,
14:31 I think you even asked me at one point,
14:33 "What does God think of suicide and would I be saved?
14:37 I did, I asked you the question,
14:41 "Do Christians go to heaven if they commit suicide?"
14:44 And you said, "I'm not answering that question."
14:47 And I said, "You've already answered it for me, thank you."
14:51 Because now you have permission to go kill yourself.
14:53 I have permission to go kill myself.
14:55 The only thing I could think of at that point,
14:57 is you need to hangout with us
15:00 and I don't care how, you know,
15:03 your sister and I were going to her place,
15:05 we have community events one after another
15:07 and you need to get there and she looked at you and said,
15:11 "You need to come over.
15:13 We need to schedule some time together."
15:17 And we get in the car and drive away,
15:20 knowing that you're gonna come and meet with us later
15:23 but we get in the car and drive away
15:24 and she starts to just cry.
15:27 She said, "I brought you to the community
15:29 because there are so many people
15:31 that are struggling and dying and hopeless
15:35 and I knew that your ministry,
15:37 what you're offering would change lives
15:40 but I didn't think I brought you for my own brother."
15:43 And for her it was such a...
15:46 It was that time where
15:48 I could see her almost pleading with God,
15:52 "I can't lose my bother."
15:55 Yeah, I was there. Yeah.
15:57 I was ready and then you had to come along.
16:03 Do you remember
16:05 coming over to the house?
16:07 Look, I remember making it to the house.
16:11 I remember asking you about, you know,
16:14 suicide, that's it.
16:17 You know, you said, you could see to my eyes, you know,
16:19 there's these zombie movies out at the moment, you know,
16:22 I totally get the zombie factor
16:25 'cause to me that actually displays
16:27 what's actually going on in a lot of people's heart.
16:28 We're alive but we did...
16:31 There was even...
16:33 And what was crazy, you guys,
16:35 is when he walked into the room,
16:37 there was nothing about him that was connected with,
16:41 even what it was around him.
16:43 You know, I watched,
16:44 you have beautiful nieces, right?
16:46 I watched them come up to you and you could not feel them.
16:50 You know, he wasn't in the room
16:52 and the only thing I'm thinking is this,
16:54 I believe is an incredibly loved man of God,
16:59 that God has a plan for
17:00 and I felt that He has a huge plan for you.
17:03 And yet, you're disappearing and I'm praying like,
17:09 "God, what do we do?"
17:10 And I don't want to offend anyone, but God says,
17:12 "You know what? He needs to be anointed."
17:14 Yes. Right.
17:16 And I'm asking you,
17:17 "Do you know what anointing is?"
17:19 Oh, yeah, you anointed me, yeah.
17:22 So you had your son anointed.
17:25 Right. Yeah.
17:26 With healing. With healing.
17:27 You had your daughter anointed. Yeah.
17:29 And now somebody is standing in front of you saying that
17:30 your case is as severe.
17:33 And so I'm in two minds.
17:35 Okay. Yeah.
17:36 'Cause you wanna die. I wanted to die.
17:38 I honestly believed that the only way
17:41 that I could find peace in my life.
17:43 And it's not like I wanted to die,
17:45 I had run out of every other option that I knew of, to live.
17:51 And I actually thought I was doing my wife,
17:52 my son, my family, everybody,
17:54 I honestly believed that I was doing everyone a favor,
17:57 if I just put my miserable life at end
18:00 'cause I was just a pain.
18:01 I was a waste to my family, I actually had nothing to give
18:07 and I became contained with that,
18:11 I figured that...
18:12 I remember at one point grabbing your face,
18:14 "That is a lie."
18:17 And I know that you're looking at me like,
18:20 "What do you mean?"
18:21 Yeah, yeah, exactly. That is a lie.
18:22 I couldn't comprehend that.
18:24 You are a man of God, God is not done,
18:27 you need to come back,
18:29 you need to get back in the game.
18:32 You need to find or allow Him
18:34 to really speak hope into your life
18:36 and when we did the anointing,
18:38 what was amazing to me
18:39 'cause I know that you were just like,
18:41 "I don't even know."
18:42 We do the anointing and I think God Himself
18:45 gave just the words of who you are
18:48 and that He hasn't,
18:50 He sees you and He knows what is happening
18:53 and He feels that pain with you
18:55 and praying and as you walked away, for me,
19:02 God is saying, "Thank you, thank you."
19:06 And that was 18 months ago.
19:09 That was. Right.
19:10 So 18 months ago... 18 months ago.
19:12 What's happened in the last 18 months?
19:16 You know...
19:17 Are you ready? Okay.
19:19 'Cause, you know, I'd love to say somebody says,
19:21 "Oh, that was 10 years ago, that was 18 months ago."
19:23 This was 18 months.
19:25 I am in awe to think that 18 months isn't a long time,
19:29 especially with where I was at
19:31 and so after you anointed me
19:34 and I was full of sarcasm and like,
19:37 "Yeah, whatever, God has a plan for my life, yeah."
19:40 From that, I was then invited to go and check out
19:43 a parent child camp in Northern California
19:48 and I thought,
19:50 "Great, I'm gonna spend some,
19:51 I will get the courage to spend some time with my son
19:54 and if I can't get pass this,
19:58 after Cheri's anointing, you know,
20:00 being this wonderful vessel of God,
20:03 then we'll see."
20:05 And so I actually went to this camp as a guest,
20:07 now I've never been a guest at a camp, in 25 years.
20:10 I've always been on the other side
20:11 providing the environment for people to find Jesus.
20:14 You know, and so, very unique to me
20:17 and I went there with an agenda.
20:19 I know Camp Ministries,
20:21 I know everything that goes on and I'm gonna bust this one.
20:24 I am gonna bust God
20:26 and everyday that I did something,
20:29 I'm not one of these people
20:31 that got zapped by the Holy Spirit and go,
20:33 "Hey, victory."
20:34 I wish I was.
20:36 Right. I wasn't.
20:37 It was transformational.
20:38 Everyday something happened
20:40 and as I'm doing high ropes with my son
20:43 and stuff and where they're working to build,
20:45 to work as a team,
20:46 it's about challenging relationships.
20:47 Right, as you're connecting with Him.
20:49 As we're connecting with Him, He got me through a challenge
20:51 when I says, "I can't do anymore, son."
20:52 He poured himself out and this is where
20:55 the parent became the child
20:56 and the child became the parent.
20:58 And he says, "Dad, I believe in you, you can do this.
21:01 I know you can." I'm like...
21:02 I love that, are you kidding me?
21:04 My son, I'm like,
21:05 this is my cool, calm and collected phlegmatic son,
21:08 you know, he just cruises in life,
21:09 'cause that's the way he handles special needs,
21:11 you know, and he's like excited,
21:12 "You can do that, you're so close."
21:14 We ended up being one of three parent childs
21:17 at that summer to make it to the end.
21:20 And I was exhausted and you know what?
21:21 Something happened inside my brain.
21:25 Whatever it was,
21:26 it actually let me know that I was truly valued...
21:29 That I was truly loved...
21:30 But you're not done yet.
21:32 And I'm not done yet
21:33 and my son saw something in me that I didn't.
21:35 So that was the anointing and then this experience,
21:38 it was an unleashing,
21:40 it was, it's time to come out of the closet, so to speak.
21:43 And my journey has gone from strength to strength
21:47 ever since then,
21:49 I now know that my identity is I truly believe
21:54 and I'm convicted that I am the son of the high living God.
21:58 And that Jesus is not only my Savior,
21:59 He's my big brother.
22:02 As a consequence of that, my life has gone,
22:06 I hate in so many different ways that...
22:08 I saw and I've gotta say,
22:09 I saw you even switch seats with God,
22:12 it's like, I was driving my whole life,
22:15 I'm gonna switch seats with you and let you drive.
22:17 You know, that's the deception,
22:19 you know, there's a ministry in that
22:21 because we are actually
22:23 very good at justifying our actions
22:26 and actually we genuinely believe
22:27 that where we are at,
22:28 in our relationship with God and,
22:30 you know, for a lot of us, we're okay, we're at.
22:33 In my particular case,
22:35 I wore the mask so well
22:38 that I actually formed around it
22:41 and when I realized,
22:44 when I was stripped of everything
22:45 and when you saw me,
22:47 I was not only stripped, I was actually, dug my grave,
22:49 I was ready to jump in it.
22:52 So I now have an appreciation for mental illness,
22:54 I totally get people that suffer from depression.
22:58 They really truly believe that suicide is a option.
23:01 Yeah, yes.
23:02 And float with that. Yes, float with it.
23:04 Find comfort in that. Yeah, yeah.
23:06 And so now, to be on the other side,
23:08 to know that my identity is in Christ,
23:10 that my identity is in my Father God,
23:13 that I am part of the royal kingdom.
23:16 That's not just a theory to me,
23:18 that's not just something that I read in the Bible,
23:20 you know, it's not something that
23:21 I read in the inspired Word of God,
23:23 I am that person...
23:24 You know that.
23:26 I feel it, I sense it in the way
23:28 that God is leading in my life.
23:31 For example, 18 months down the track
23:34 and there are three of us, families, okay?
23:37 So, you know, Steve, Natalie and Davis.
23:38 Right. Yeah.
23:40 And, you know Connie...
23:41 Three families that so believe in family,
23:44 believe in healing...
23:45 Believe in God, they wanted to be real,
23:47 they're not satisfied with the superficial.
23:50 No, no, and of course,
23:52 John and Debbie Marshall,
23:54 the three families, we've got together
23:56 and there was an opportunity to purchase
23:59 a property and it's...
24:02 I think I can share this with you
24:04 for the sake of showing how good God is.
24:06 And He's God through
24:07 the good times and the bad times,
24:09 He's good.
24:10 So even before you say that,
24:12 I just want anybody to picture New Zealand.
24:15 Picture this beautiful place with beautiful beaches
24:21 and land and all that kind of stuff
24:23 and you have a opportunity
24:24 to now do whatever is that you
24:26 wanted to do in the superficial...
24:29 You can do it in reality now. Yes, yeah.
24:31 Connected with God and so what happens?
24:34 So what happens?
24:35 First of all, back track, get back from America,
24:38 then we had five minutes,
24:40 five months to implement the first ever a,
24:42 parent child Christian camp in New Zealand,
24:45 it went down flawlessly.
24:47 And we had CEOs,
24:49 like the CEO of New Zealand
24:51 and other big companies,
24:52 down through the President
24:53 of one of the biggest gangs in New Zealand.
24:56 Amen. The Black Power.
24:58 And so if you wanna put it this way,
25:00 I know we're all probably vegetarians here
25:02 but I'm gonna use a meat and thing.
25:03 So if you're filet mignon or if you're a lamb chop
25:06 or if you're a New York strip or whatever you are,
25:10 you go into the grinder
25:11 and everybody comes out as hamburger.
25:13 Yeah. We're all equal.
25:15 Because everybody that come to this,
25:16 they all had one thing in common,
25:18 they wanted to beat a relationship
25:19 with their children.
25:20 So we're gonna break right now 'cause I'm gonna break a way,
25:23 we're gonna comeback in for a close
25:24 because you gotta hear this,
25:26 absolutely amazing,
25:29 how God turns it around and He can't turn it around
25:31 unless we get it and we finally say,
25:34 "Okay, I surrender, I will trust you."
25:37 We'll be right back.