Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Damas Manderson
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000135A
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:11 You know, there are times,
00:12 that there's trouble in paradise
00:14 and you question your very sanity,
00:16 don't think you're gonna make it and our guest today,
00:19 a friend of mine, is gonna talk about just that time for him,
00:22 it's amazing story.
00:24 Welcome to Celebrating Life and Recovery,
00:25 I'm Cheri, your host, come join us at the cafe.
00:57 We talk about changes in paradise, you know,
00:59 we're going to this whole season,
01:01 "Victory in Jesus."
01:02 The book is amazing,
01:04 if you want any other programs on the series
01:07 or you wanna go in depth about what we've talked about,
01:10 just go to the website called 3ABN,
01:13 go ahead and get the book.
01:15 On our website,
01:16 we'll post some of the stuff that we've covered
01:18 but on this particular chapter,
01:20 we're looking at a radical interchange
01:23 and as some people think radical interchange,
01:25 what does that mean?
01:26 Well, it's really obvious what it means
01:27 if you're heroin addict and all
01:29 and you've got to change your lifestyle
01:31 and you've gotta change, you know,
01:32 you're not relying on drugs and all that kind of stuff
01:35 but what happens when you're more...
01:38 And I hate to say normal
01:39 'cause I haven't met anyone normal yet.
01:41 I keep thinking I'm going to but, you know,
01:43 you're more acceptable
01:44 as far as this struggles that you have.
01:46 So, you know, I have been invited a ton of times
01:52 to New Zealand and I love, the people I've met there,
01:56 the ministries,
01:57 the folks that I've been involved with are,
02:00 they're off the chart, incredible folks.
02:02 And there's a girl that I worked with, Michelle,
02:04 and Michelle, if you're watching this,
02:06 I adore you, I adore you.
02:09 She is on fire for God,
02:12 she's really involved in a community,
02:15 if she see somebody that need to change,
02:16 she wants to kind of put some together
02:18 that is gonna help them.
02:20 So we're running our program, Celebrating Life and Recovery,
02:22 14 week program, we've done a number of...
02:26 Had it run in a number of churches,
02:27 Salvation Army, Assemblies of God,
02:30 the Adventist churches,
02:31 community centers, we've run it in prisons.
02:34 At one point, there was a 163 baptisms
02:37 at the end of one of the cycles of evangelism,
02:41 that one of the church uses.
02:43 So we would, I mean, we would...
02:44 Having a great time.
02:46 So Michelle invites me back, I fly in, I love her,
02:50 you know, we have this reunion, we go to It is Written,
02:53 which is another ministry that we work for there,
02:57 it's incredible
02:58 and this guy comes walking across the parking lot
03:02 and I have to say,
03:03 I looked at him and he was just,
03:06 there was a presence about him
03:07 that was so powerful as a man of God.
03:10 There was something that...
03:12 It just took me back, you know,
03:15 this is an incredible man I've got
03:16 but he looked beat up.
03:18 I mean, he looked beat up in ways
03:19 that I couldn't even understand and so then Michelle says,
03:22 "Oh, my brother is coming."
03:25 And I thought, "Your brother?"
03:26 'Cause I'm thinking and I gotta just say,
03:29 welcome to the program.
03:31 'Cause, you know, I'm talking about you.
03:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:33 So as you start walking up, Damas said, that I think,
03:37 you know, something is really seriously happening in his life
03:41 and I can see it in your eyes.
03:42 One of the things I noticed when we first met
03:45 is that you almost look like you were walking dead.
03:50 Do you know what I'm talking about?
03:52 I was the walking dead.
03:53 I said to you, "How're you doing?"
03:58 And I think you said, "Fine" at first.
04:00 I, of course, it's the polite thing to say,
04:02 "I'm fine, thank you."
04:04 And I kind of stepped into your space a little bit.
04:08 Just a little bit.
04:10 And I said, "How're you doing, really?"
04:12 Yeah, yeah, you kept to the chase and you,
04:17 yeah and I said what.
04:20 He said something like, you know, what?
04:24 "Today, I feel like dying,
04:27 I would love to just kill myself."
04:29 Your sister, everything in her changed.
04:33 I watched her lose the color in her face,
04:36 I watched her look at me like, you know,
04:38 I'm inviting you into work with the community
04:41 and my brother just said that and I didn't know that
04:44 and so I said, "You know what?
04:46 I want you and I just to talk for a minute."
04:48 And so you and I spent some time
04:51 and then I asked you to join us later.
04:53 Michelle even said, you gotta come out,
04:56 we need to talk.
04:58 And so tell me,
04:59 do you remember anything about that day
05:00 and the reason I ask you that, that was not long ago.
05:04 But I think that you were so lost in your depression
05:09 and your despair
05:11 that I don't think you were remembering a lot.
05:14 No, I was, you know,
05:16 when people say you're out to lunch,
05:18 I was out to breakfast, lunch and dinner.
05:21 I was gone and doing my best to try and keep it together,
05:27 I mean, I was completely beaten up,
05:28 I was severely depressed.
05:32 Tell us a little bit about what got you to that day,
05:35 'cause you were Very successful in your life.
05:38 Yeah. That one point.
05:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jeez, where do I start?
05:43 No, I start where my mother tried to beat me up
05:45 in the stomach and...
05:48 You know, tried to abort me and trying overdose on salt
05:50 which is really funny because 'cause I love salt
05:52 and I didn't find out
05:53 until I meet her at the age of 27,
05:55 when she confess that to me.
05:57 She probably thought I could dry up the fluid
06:00 or somehow get rid of this child.
06:01 Yeah, yeah, she would beat up,
06:02 I mean, people said, 'abortion.'
06:05 I've just realized that was attempt to murder.
06:08 So I suppose,
06:10 I wasn't exactly in a loving environment
06:11 for nine months.
06:13 So when I popped out, of course,
06:14 I didn't know any different and then my mother left,
06:18 you know, few years later and abandoned me,
06:20 so the fear of rejection,
06:21 the abandonment and feeling beat up,
06:23 was my entry into this world.
06:26 You were raised by grandparents...
06:27 And my grandparents... Different places...
06:29 Yeah, my dad's parents.
06:31 Jim and Pat Manderson they brought my sister and I,
06:34 which is an absolute blessing.
06:36 However, it didn't take away the pain
06:38 that I couldn't actually put a name to,
06:41 just wanting my mummy and daddy around,
06:44 you know, and so yeah,
06:46 just the beginning of my life was about,
06:49 I would be happy go lucky.
06:50 At school, I was known as the clown and...
06:52 Nobody knew. No one knew.
06:54 And I love what you're saying,
06:55 is that nobody knew any of this.
06:57 So you were really good at hiding everything.
07:01 You over achieved in a lot of different areas.
07:04 Yeah, the teachers would always say
07:07 that I was a very intelligent person
07:09 but I wasn't very good
07:10 at applying myself academically.
07:14 I shouldn't be proud of the fact
07:15 that I was the first student
07:16 to ever get kicked out of Bible class.
07:18 Were you? At school, yeah.
07:20 I think it still stands on this...
07:22 And I can't even believe 'cause your grandma,
07:25 in just when I first met her, she's like,
07:28 "Cheri Peters on 3ABN" and she's kissing me.
07:31 So she's very religious,
07:34 you were raised in that kind of environment,
07:36 went to, did you go to Christian school?
07:37 Yes. And kicked out of Bible.
07:41 Yes, for asking questions,
07:46 which I found out later,
07:49 I'm really happy to ask questions,
07:51 but yes, so anyway going from there,
07:53 just go through school
07:54 and yeah, just be the clown and be happy
07:56 and I wasn't the kind of person that would get outwardly angry
08:00 and take it out on other people.
08:02 Ironically, I would beat myself up internally.
08:06 In what sense, what did that look like?
08:09 Look, I don't need you put me down,
08:11 I can put myself down enough, thank you very much.
08:13 Right, so when you looked in the mirror...
08:15 Yeah, yeah, I didn't know who I was.
08:18 I didn't know my identity
08:19 as a son or as a man
08:26 or as a boy growing up.
08:28 What I knew is that I had these feelings
08:31 that I really couldn't put, I couldn't describe my feeling.
08:35 I say if that was probably, set up
08:38 to allow me to get depressed somewhere down the line.
08:41 So I would chase things,
08:42 I would try and chase happiness and...
08:45 And make it happen. Yeah. And make it happen.
08:47 And the end, you know, I left school
08:51 and I did an apprenticeship in carpentry.
08:53 And all I knew is I wanted to build my own house,
08:56 have my own flash car and a boat.
08:58 Yeah. And that was my desire.
08:59 And I'll be happy.
09:01 And I'll be happy and even then,
09:02 when I did my apprenticeship in carpentry,
09:04 I didn't really know what I wanted to do
09:05 but it was good that I was able to work with my hands.
09:08 And then, you know,
09:11 then I got introduced to the world
09:13 of summer camps in America in 1990
09:17 and that was the beginning of transformation in my life.
09:22 So how did you get from New Zealand
09:25 to summer camps in America?
09:27 I was, I walked away from the church
09:31 'cause I didn't feel loved and accepted there
09:34 and I ended up DJing in the number one night club
09:37 in Oakland for a little while and I didn't realize it
09:41 but that's where I found a fellowship,
09:42 that's where I found acceptance.
09:44 I belong there.
09:46 I belong and in the late '80s,
09:48 that was a pretty radical move
09:49 because the club that I DJed in,
09:53 was accepting for heterosexual and homosexual people,
09:56 so it really was outside the box.
09:59 And we all...
10:01 Heterosexual and homosexual, we all had one thing in common,
10:04 we desired to be accepted.
10:07 And so I fit in perfectly as far as that culture
10:10 and ended up DJing and...
10:14 So let me get it clear for somebody
10:15 that may not have heard you, is that sometimes they'll say,
10:18 "Well, if you were in a bisexual, heterosexual,
10:22 homosexual club, you're probably gay."
10:24 So you want to say, "I'm not gay..."
10:27 "I had the same issues as everybody there,
10:28 that we just wanted to belong, we wanted to fit in..."
10:30 Yeah. "We wanted to have fun.
10:32 and we didn't wanna think about not being wanted,
10:34 being rejected,
10:36 dealing with all that craziness and that place..."
10:39 Yeah. "Gave us that brake."
10:40 Yeah, thanks for clarifying that.
10:42 Now I didn't go in as a gay person or...
10:44 Wanting to even go down that road,
10:47 it was a place where it took my mates,
10:49 12 months to get me down there
10:50 and what finally got me down there,
10:52 is I see these beautiful celebrities
10:53 and models down there and I feel very safe.
10:56 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, "Okay."
10:58 "Oh, There you got me there."
11:00 And then I realized that we're all people,
11:02 we're all people on a journey
11:04 just trying to find out their place
11:06 and fit into society.
11:08 Trying to survive.
11:09 And I've got, still got some close friends today
11:13 who are gay and I support them very much.
11:17 Of course, in a "normal." whatever you say normal is,
11:20 that is not necessarily acceptable.
11:21 So that was another hit against me
11:23 as far as rejection and stuff
11:24 because I got called all those names.
11:26 I got too coward that I was that
11:27 because I associated with,
11:29 but something deep inside of me said,
11:31 "Don't let go of that.
11:32 Don't let go of the friendships that you've made.
11:34 Look beyond..."
11:35 Yeah, and I wanna just clarify another thing
11:39 and the reason I do this
11:40 is that I don't want to lose anybody
11:41 that's kind of listening but we, yeah,
11:45 one of my best friends has been in the gay lifestyle
11:49 most of her life
11:50 and she asked me what do I think about gays
11:53 and I said, you know what?
11:54 I have, it's not my issue
11:55 and I have a ton of other issues
11:57 but what I think is God is just trying to get us home.
12:00 He's just trying to save us,
12:01 He's just trying to get us in our own skin.
12:03 So if anybody's gonna judge anybody on anything,
12:07 it's gonna be God Himself.
12:09 Everyone else, really has all our own thing
12:13 that we're gonna have to kind of answer for us.
12:16 So you're in this club, you're deejaying,
12:19 you finally find a place to fit and what happened from there?
12:24 'Cause you've really got successful in your journey.
12:27 Well, it actually,
12:31 what started me on my track back,
12:32 is I did a summer camp program
12:34 in the Blue Ridge Mounts of Virginia
12:36 and it was Christian,
12:38 the very thing I didn't wanna be around
12:40 but I ended up there.
12:42 The movies that we saw in New Zealand
12:43 were pretty good about summer camps,
12:45 you know, people got up to mischief
12:46 and had a little bit of fun and, you know,
12:48 push the boundaries
12:49 and that's why I felt summer camp was so perfect.
12:51 I'm just gonna act out and go skiing, waterskiing.
12:52 Where it's this fun. Yeah.
12:54 Yeah, and so I ended up at this camp
12:57 and that was the beginning of transformation of my life,
13:01 then I went back, I've got serious about business,
13:02 I mean, you know what?
13:04 If I wanna keep going back to the States
13:05 and giving my "little peace back"
13:07 or learning more about Jesus, then I need to.
13:12 Can I ask you, at summer camp,
13:14 what happened that all of the sudden,
13:17 got that attention of that kid, what happened that you're like,
13:21 you know, maybe there's something to this God thing?
13:25 You mean like,
13:27 what took me out of that environment
13:28 and enter into the camp environment?
13:30 Yeah, when you came back changed.
13:33 I came back changed, it was a battle.
13:37 For me, it was ten steps forward,
13:40 nine steps back.
13:41 Ten steps forward, 11 steps back,
13:43 ten steps forward, one step back.
13:44 That's been my journey in trying to discover who I am
13:49 and who I am in Jesus.
13:51 But that was enough to trigger me
13:52 into really entertaining
13:54 the entrepreneurial spirit in me
13:57 and I went on.
13:58 And when I meet Dina in '95, then I got really serious.
14:03 And Dina, explain who she is?
14:05 Dina is my wife and...
14:08 You fell in love?
14:09 Yeah, we fell in love,
14:10 I asked her to come back to New Zealand
14:12 to see if we're compatible for marriage
14:13 and eight weeks later, we eloped, that Christmas.
14:17 So we went back to the States and I asked her father
14:19 if I could marry her and he said, "Yes"
14:21 and then I said, "I got something to tell you."
14:23 And he said, "What?" And I said, "We're married.
14:26 But I'm glad we got the blessing first."
14:29 Of course, Dina's mother was upset
14:31 'cause she wanted the church, you know, the church thing...
14:33 In the white dress.
14:35 So one year later, we had it in America,
14:37 in La Porte, Indiana,
14:38 where my wife is from and we had a beautiful wedding.
14:42 I don't recommend doing it the way that we did
14:44 but, you know, we truly loved each other
14:46 and we're 20 years last year...
14:47 She's amazing. Twenty one years in August.
14:49 Yeah. Oh, she is amazing.
14:50 Yeah, yeah, to put up with me, especially.
14:54 So you guys get married, you get serious about,
14:57 you know, I really want to drive myself,
15:00 be successful.
15:02 Yes, and but the success, it was brilliant.
15:08 I mean, property development,
15:11 I started off buying and selling houses,
15:13 then I started renovating houses
15:15 and then I started doing speck houses
15:16 and then I went into,
15:18 going on to doing consultancy
15:20 and then doing little sub-divisions,
15:24 many sub-divisions.
15:26 And then I was able to consult other big developers in Oakland
15:29 and Oakland's the biggest city in New Zealand.
15:32 Things were going really good, I was very driven,
15:36 doing it for the right reasons, I thought...
15:39 You're right, successful in what you were doing.
15:40 And successful.
15:42 I got used to...
15:44 I loved the property development, I always,
15:46 having a wonderful relationship with Jesus
15:48 as I thought...
15:50 I got to just say,
15:51 I'm listening to your friend of yours one time
15:53 and because this is so far out of my realm
15:57 as far as thinking
15:58 but they were talking about developing some property
16:00 and so is John, John...
16:02 So John talked about developing property
16:05 and getting roads and water and all that kind of stuff
16:08 and if we could do this, this and this,
16:11 this five million dollar property,
16:13 ends up paying for itself and we could just move in there
16:16 and I'm like, "That is genius."
16:18 So it really is a different world.
16:21 But everything has to be considered
16:23 while you're improving the area,
16:27 how you're gonna get all that permits that you need,
16:29 all the roads that you need and all that kind of stuff.
16:32 But it's high energy, high intensity
16:33 and what I hear you saying
16:36 is, "I was very good at that, I loved it."
16:39 If could say so, yeah, I was passionate about it,
16:44 the whole development mindset of looking at something
16:47 and then visualizing
16:48 what it could end up looking like.
16:50 And then you implement the systems
16:52 and the strategies to get from A to Z
16:55 and I love that whole process.
16:57 And I realize, being a visionary,
16:59 I could actually see the end product
17:02 but then I knew,
17:03 end products only works with good details to start,
17:05 you know, the fist step.
17:07 So that's how I, that's how my business grew
17:10 and I ended up being a sort of a conundrum in the industry
17:14 'cause I had the local knowledge,
17:16 I had the respect of well to do developers,
17:20 they're like my IP.
17:22 And so life was good and I've had, you know,
17:27 the Lord blessed big time, He blessed the skill set
17:30 that He gave me
17:32 and then I was able to implement it
17:33 and through that, it came into a lot of good investments
17:39 that I held on to, along with selling others
17:41 and so by 2003,
17:43 when my second child came along,
17:45 I was with a few million dollars
17:47 and that felt really good.
17:49 Everything is right. Everything is right.
17:50 I have the boat, I have the house,
17:52 I have beautiful wife, my children...
17:53 Actually, you know what?
17:55 I didn't do the boat and I didn't do the house...
17:56 You did not do the boat... And I didn't do the car...
17:58 You're wait...
17:59 No, I thought, "Well, I can wait."
18:01 You know, I'm on a role here...
18:02 You're in New Zealand.
18:04 Yeah... You need a boat...
18:05 I know, I was thinking that's crazy.
18:06 But I was, I suppose delayed gratification
18:09 if you want to quote.
18:11 I would put it back into investments,
18:12 I'll put it back into my business
18:14 and I was serious about creating residual income.
18:17 I wanted to retire early, so I could go about,
18:20 at that time, I convinced myself or I can just go
18:22 and minister any where in the world for the Lord.
18:24 But once I get to this... Once I get to this point...
18:26 Once I have this much in the bank.
18:27 Once I get that point, you know, and yeah,
18:31 and that's what I found myself doing.
18:33 Just been very focused.
18:35 You are and I know I push you
18:38 when I even have you talk like this
18:41 but did you have a specific number,
18:43 once I get this much in the bank,
18:45 I actually can then pull back
18:48 and work for God, do ministry.
18:52 I did but the goal post keeps changing.
18:56 So once I hit that particular million dollar figure.
18:59 Right, then it was two or five?
19:02 At that point it was five.
19:04 It just wasn't enough, I found myself thinking,
19:07 "Well, I can make that work more,
19:09 just a little bit more, just a little bit more."
19:12 So when, man, I hope this makes sense
19:17 but there are times in our lives
19:19 when we are driven to seek after power
19:23 or that kind of thing,
19:25 from a place of power listeners as a child,
19:29 I don't think it ever really gets mad.
19:31 Like you said, it keeps changing on you.
19:34 But as a child I'm wondering If do I fit,
19:38 does anybody want me.
19:39 And now I'm able to do this, make a difference politically,
19:43 people know who you are, all that kind of stuff
19:46 but it doesn't, it's not enough.
19:48 You know, there was always anxiety,
19:50 there was always journey with me in this,
19:53 my business model and I couldn't shake it.
19:58 And, of course, that would depend
19:59 to a little bit of depression every now and then
20:01 but nothing, nothing major,
20:03 I could deal, just push through it.
20:05 But it was never, I found myself in a place
20:07 where it was never good enough
20:09 but I could justify myself in saying,
20:10 "Well, I'm doing it for the right reasons."
20:13 You know, I'm wealthy enough to stop
20:16 and live of my investments but now I just,
20:19 "Okay, Lord, let's work on the next deal.
20:21 Shall we?"
20:22 And I was very good at convincing myself
20:24 to think that on the surface level,
20:27 it was, "I, okay?
20:29 It was acceptable."
20:30 Literally, I'm taking this piece of land
20:32 and providing homes for families
20:35 and Income for the city and, you know, I mean, it's...
20:38 you know, I'm doing fair market,
20:39 I'm doing less than fair market value.
20:41 I'm actually doing society a favor.
20:43 I mean, yeah, I was really driven not to think
20:48 that my drive came from a very insecure place,
20:51 I didn't go there.
20:54 I learnt that afterwards but yeah, I felt completely...
20:56 I hope I wasn't the first one to tell you that?
20:58 You were.
21:00 I knew, you were gonna say that and it's really crazy...
21:03 You just wouldn't get away from me.
21:04 I wouldn't.
21:05 And what's really crazy to me is when you,
21:09 when I see the enemy just strategically drives us,
21:14 we are driven and we're driven by our anxiety
21:18 and our fear and whatever and it looks successful.
21:21 I mean, to me, I can't even imagine
21:25 the respect that you had in the community
21:27 and how successful it was
21:28 and how almost you could taste it
21:31 but not quite.
21:32 Not quite. Not quite, so what happens?
21:35 'Cause things start to turn. Things turn.
21:38 Well, in that process of getting into that point,
21:43 my son was born in 1999 and just quickly,
21:48 he was born and diagnosed with Down Syndrome.
21:51 And yeah, that was, that was...
21:54 I can't even imagine.
21:55 No, yeah, it took a long time and what was amazing
22:00 is our church stopped from the Friday night live program
22:04 and they all prayed
22:05 when we shared the news with them
22:06 and we're still at the hospital.
22:08 Cut that long story short, my son was anointed
22:11 and he is healed to normal today.
22:14 So I'm like, wow. Yeah.
22:17 You know, yeah, miracles do happen.
22:21 So talk to somebody,
22:22 I'm sure there was a good message
22:24 and something to learn from that
22:25 and maybe, I didn't quite get there at that time...
22:27 Right. 'Cause life continued.
22:30 But it was definitely a very real moment.
22:34 A very real moment.
22:36 When my son came out lifeless and then he was anointed
22:40 and he had cried for the first time
22:42 and that was like hours later and it was like the cry of joy,
22:44 it was like the cry of life.
22:46 I take him, I pick him up
22:47 and carry him over and give him to Dina
22:49 and it's like Dina and Miles were glowing.
22:52 And Miles, hours old, is able to lift up his hand
22:56 and started stroking Dina on the face
22:58 and to me it was saying,
22:59 "The comforter is with you, the Holy Spirit."
23:01 You know, Holy Spirit is in this room.
23:04 And we had that peace,
23:05 that transient little understanding
23:07 and I was like, wow,
23:09 and my mother was there and Michelle was there,
23:11 of course, Dina mom and I won't even forget that day.
23:14 It was, I walked away thankful and undeserving.
23:18 Well, get this, four years later,
23:20 life is good, business is going strong,
23:22 I'm at the pinnacle, you know, I'm in the position
23:25 where I can pick and choose what I want to do,
23:26 done the hard yards, victory for me.
23:29 Kennedy Rose is born, 2003 and she cries like a kitten,
23:35 you know, and that felt, "Oh, so gorgeous"
23:37 not realizing that she was born with a rare syndrome.
23:42 So they said to us that she has Cri-du-chat syndrome
23:47 which means cry of the cat, well, 5P minus.
23:50 And she's in the severe range of desolation,
23:53 so you can expect her
23:54 to have a maximum rate of mentality
23:56 of a three to four-year-child.
23:58 In her whole life? Right. Her whole life, max out.
24:01 Autistic spectrum, aggressive behavior,
24:03 she won't walk, she won't talk, you know,
24:06 she'll be tube feed, health and heart problems,
24:09 oh, and by the way, spontaneous death.
24:12 And I'm...
24:14 And you're standing there growing,
24:15 I can buy and sell most things,
24:17 I can literally change everything
24:20 but I can't change this.
24:22 Can't change this.
24:23 So I walked out of there thinking,
24:26 "Okay, anointing, yeah."
24:30 So had her anointed and nothing,
24:34 they get her anointed again, nothing.
24:36 Anointed again, nothing.
24:38 By this time I'm like, "All right, God,
24:42 are You in the lottery business?
24:44 "Because the last time I checked,
24:45 you healed my son.
24:47 Now you're not healing my daughter
24:48 and on top of that,
24:50 she's got a syndrome that is so,
24:52 it's just worst than Down's.
24:54 If you give me a choice,
24:55 I would choose Down's over this one.
24:57 I mean, my daughter can die anytime,
24:59 I mean, come on for real"
25:01 and I started getting angry,
25:03 my whole world started falling apart.
25:05 At that point, we were going over to the States anyway to,
25:08 I was gonna be Assistant Director
25:11 at a summer camp, Christian program,
25:12 in Virginia again.
25:14 I was very just addicted to youth, family,
25:16 restoration camps and...
25:19 And now when you say addicted,
25:22 I know that you loved what you did.
25:25 You believed in family,
25:27 you believed in all that kind of stuff.
25:28 So this was not that I did this just because I could
25:31 and it was that this is what you believed in.
25:35 Oh, yeah, I mean, any chance we could.
25:37 Dina and I and the family,
25:38 we were always at the time,
25:39 we would always go back to the States
25:41 and give our part back to youth ministries
25:43 and family ministries.
25:44 I believe in the core of the family
25:46 to have their happiness in Christ.
25:49 I just didn't realize that mine was quite superficial
25:53 until we had this, yeah...
25:58 Crisis. Yeah, the crisis.
25:59 You know, everything and what's incredible to me
26:05 is when you said, "Is it a lottery?
26:07 You know, where are you God?"
26:08 That kind of anger.
26:10 When you're saying to Him, "What's up with this?"
26:13 I was. You need to answer to me.
26:15 Yup, yup, which is the first clearer.
26:19 I know, but we say it...
26:20 But at the time, I mean, I had a hard time,
26:24 I mean, I went to the States and we did that.
26:28 Here I'm thinking, I didn't wanna go to America
26:31 to pursue medical treatments for my daughter.
26:35 So what ended up is going there for two month vacation
26:37 and doing the youth ministries.
26:40 I ended up in a search of medical support
26:44 for my daughter 'cause geneticist said,
26:47 "New Zealand is not big enough to support this syndrome,
26:49 we have eight documented of which four are alive today,
26:53 ever at the time and four have passed away."
26:57 And I went, if it's supposed to be,
27:00 you know, spontaneous death and sort of,
27:03 can happen but it's rare,
27:04 50 percent of the cases had died,
27:08 knowing that's not good enough for me,
27:10 I tried to get private help, no private help.
27:14 It's socialized medicine and stuff and probably,
27:16 it's just very busy.
27:17 And so my wife being American, we went over there to...
27:21 We'll find a specialist in the State.
27:23 In the pursuit of happiness, yes.
27:24 Yeah, and we ended up and when we went back,
27:28 we did the Virginia thing and I thought,
27:29 "I can live in Virginia."
27:31 So Virginia didn't have the base program and I said,
27:33 "Lord, I'll go anywhere in America
27:35 expect La Porte, Indiana.
27:37 Please not Indiana, I'm sorry." Well, guess where He puts me?
27:40 La Porte, Indiana. Absolutely.
27:42 And I'm like, "Okay, so I got from beautiful hills
27:45 and ponds and lakes and oceans to corn fields
27:47 and soybean fields."
27:50 Which was the beginning of my journey
27:52 of being completely and totally broken.
27:56 I would like to stop there and just and take a break
27:59 and come back because when you are at that place
28:04 and it's not broken 'cause I can't pay for this,
28:07 it's not broken 'cause I don't have the means,
28:09 it's broken 'cause I literally don't know
28:12 how to breathe next.
28:13 I don't know how to speak into my wife who is looking,
28:19 I don't know how to speaking to my family,
28:20 I don't know how to do any of that kind of stuff.
28:22 So we're gonna come back and find out what happens
28:24 because it absolutely is amazing.
28:27 But if you are struggling with wondering if,
28:30 "God, this is a lottery to you?"
28:32 What I learned bout God is He says,
28:34 "I promise you, I plan evil for no one,
28:37 this was not my fault, this was not my issue."
28:40 And so we're gonna come back
28:42 and talk a little bit more about that.
28:43 So stay with us, it's amazing, it's an amazing journey.