Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Richie & Timari Brower
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000133A
00:01 The following program
00:02 discusses sensitive issues related to addictive behaviour.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:10 I'd like to introduce you to some friends of mine today.
00:12 They have been
00:14 through the very worst in a relationship
00:16 and struggle with all of that means
00:18 and the very best.
00:20 It's an absolute incredible story.
00:22 So welcome to Celebrating Life in Recovery with Cheri,
00:25 I'm your host.
00:26 And today, I pray this changes your life, your relationship.
00:31 Come and join us on the cafe. It's an amazing story.
01:02 I love going from week to week and bringing different topics.
01:05 This topic that we're talking about today,
01:07 and we've talked about before is marriage
01:09 and how do we get real enough.
01:12 You know like I got married
01:13 and I thought I was going to be all of that.
01:14 I was going to be the best wife,
01:16 I was going to really,
01:18 you know, I was just going to wow Brad with everything
01:21 that I brought to the table,
01:22 and then he started acting out a few times.
01:24 I'm like "Who is this guy?"
01:26 He does not deserve a wife like me, you know,
01:29 because we're so arrogant with that
01:30 and we're so damage and we all come
01:32 at relationships in different way.
01:34 And I remember God one time had me look at Brad
01:38 and I was thinking anything but,
01:40 I want to be a good wife at this point
01:43 and had me look at him and he said,
01:44 "What if underneath all that this is an Abraham
01:47 or Isaac and this is Moses,"
01:49 and he just doesn't know it
01:51 and he's got to see it in your eyes
01:52 and I'm thinking in my eyes,
01:54 I want to look in the mirror and say,
01:55 I don't think he's seen any of that and God said,
01:57 I want you to repent and I want you to look at him differently.
02:00 I want you to be different towards him
02:02 and I had no idea what that meant.
02:04 And so we're going to talk to some friends of mine today,
02:07 that I know have different stories
02:09 but similar experiences.
02:12 We're trying to figure out
02:13 how to be real in a relationship.
02:15 And I want to say Richie and Timari Brower,
02:18 thank you for joining us again.
02:20 We've had you on before.
02:22 I loved you since the first time
02:24 I saw you in the community doing the teaching.
02:27 And so, when I talked about that moment,
02:30 when we decided to get real in a relationship
02:32 and God confronts us about what we're thinking
02:35 and what's going through our head.
02:37 I want you to go there but first, Timmy, who are you?
02:40 And where did you come from long before you met him,
02:45 you know, because we all come from somewhere?
02:48 No, I thought similar to you coming into marriage
02:53 that this is going to be wonderful and great
02:54 and had no concept
02:56 that my past was going to have any impact
02:58 on our new exciting and bright future
03:01 that we were creating.
03:03 I came from a pretty dysfunctional background
03:07 but thinking it was really normal,
03:08 and this is just how family life is.
03:11 And my parents divorced when I was five,
03:14 and my mom and I moved to Hawaii from the West Coast
03:17 and I started travelling from Hawaii back to Seattle
03:20 to visit my dad every summer by myself when I was five,
03:23 because that's just normal.
03:25 And, you know, you make friends on the airplane and all that.
03:29 And what we didn't...
03:32 both of my parents got remarried really quickly,
03:35 and so the first time
03:36 I came back to my dad's life was different.
03:40 We were a farming family
03:42 and the family that had just splintered
03:45 had become a new family.
03:47 He had remarried.
03:48 They were now four kids and another one on the way
03:50 and I was plunked right down in the middle,
03:52 and it was kind of one of those scenarios
03:55 where there is a lot more kids
03:57 than there is care available and...
04:00 And even with you coming back, you know,
04:03 looking for whatever that image of you and being daddy's girl
04:08 and all that kind of stuff,
04:09 you're looking to move right back into that
04:11 and it's not spots not there anymore.
04:12 No, that spot was kind of blown up
04:16 and you know and I can say for my,
04:20 you know, then new stepmother.
04:22 I think she had a really-really rough road to hoe.
04:25 She was very isolated out in the middle of nowhere
04:28 with a whole passel of kids
04:29 and now one more that wasn't hers
04:31 and it was, it was a recipe for disaster.
04:35 There the food was not always
04:39 where it needed to be like on the table
04:41 that we doesn't have lot and it wasn't
04:43 because necessarily we were poor,
04:44 just no one was looking out for those kind of things,
04:47 and there was very little adult supervision
04:51 and so we got into a fair bit of mischief.
04:54 I think you could use the word and it...
04:57 When you talk about mischief and I don't know
04:59 if it's the same in your household
05:01 that it was in our
05:03 'cause sometimes we could be really cruel with each other.
05:05 Yes, that kind of mischief.
05:06 Yeah, 'cause sometimes when you hear that word,
05:09 you're thinking, oh, they played
05:10 or they threw rocks into a lake or they broke a window
05:13 but it's like when you get dysfunction
05:16 and you get kids that aren't supervised,
05:18 they can really terrorize each other.
05:20 Yeah and there was,
05:21 there was some domestic violence involved too
05:23 from the parental standpoint.
05:24 And so we were acting out the pain
05:28 that we were all experiencing of,
05:31 you know, we clashed, we didn't get along.
05:33 I came in I think kind of princess like, you know...
05:36 And everybody is a threat,
05:38 everybody else getting attention.
05:39 Exactly, exactly, and so it was just,
05:42 we were all pitted against each other
05:44 and we had moments where we really got along
05:46 but they were few and far between.
05:49 And so, I was kind of living
05:51 a double life of my summer life,
05:54 where everything was chaotic and bad and then my...
05:59 Laying out on the beach...
06:01 Really, yes.
06:02 In the light, I'm so jealous, I'm thinking,
06:04 I could see those two worlds, really different worlds.
06:07 Yes, they were and I did like my Hawaii life,
06:11 so don't get me wrong, I lived in Hawaii twice
06:13 and it's a good thing to live near water and beaches,
06:17 but it really created in my head
06:21 a very easy way to compartmentalise of,
06:24 you know, you act like everything is good
06:27 even when it's not.
06:29 And that kind of became,
06:31 I would say a theme for a good portion of my life
06:33 and I'm still repenting of periodically,
06:36 because I didn't know
06:39 that having a double life wasn't normal.
06:42 And so when we got married,
06:46 I thought having a double life was still normal.
06:48 So what's really interesting to me
06:50 is that you ended up doing that double life,
06:53 went to school, in college,
06:56 I know that you guys met at a...
06:58 Summer camp.
07:00 Summer camp and so,
07:02 but you could do that very well,
07:04 you could adapt really well.
07:05 You could disassociate really well.
07:07 You can turn around on a dime
07:09 and smile everything's fine really well.
07:12 And be pretty proud of it too. Yeah.
07:14 I mean it wasn't just how I do it.
07:15 It's like, oh, no, I did it
07:16 and I did it well
07:18 and there's a level of arrogance
07:19 that I could be that slick.
07:23 I guess the reason I'm kind of slowing down
07:25 in the story right here because I meet,
07:28 I have so many people that I love.
07:30 And when I first meet them, I can see that.
07:32 And I'm thinking,
07:34 I hope that God gets you to repent of that,
07:36 to walk away from that
07:37 because you could see underneath all of that stuff,
07:40 those masks that this is an incredible person,
07:43 but we don't know that, you know.
07:45 And so you're saying even meeting him,
07:47 I could wear that mask easy.
07:49 And I wouldn't say it was something
07:50 I did usually intentionally, it was like, oh,
07:52 I'm going to put on my happy face
07:54 it was just, you know,
07:55 when it's the lifestyle that you come from.
07:57 You know you don't, you don't notice it really
07:59 when you switch to you know being,
08:02 oh, I'm not happy but,
08:04 you know, everything is falling apart
08:05 but I'm going to look like everything is pristine.
08:08 And so, it wasn't something I consciously,
08:11 you know, set out to manipulate or deceive.
08:15 But I think that,
08:16 I think those of us
08:18 who grew up in a really dysfunctional home,
08:19 that's something that we kind of wear
08:21 a second skin without even realizing it.
08:24 And then we get into relationships,
08:27 it causes difficulty.
08:28 So you guys meet, you...
08:33 You're going to fall in love, you're gonna do it all right.
08:35 Of course, because we're good like that.
08:38 I love that because it's just what who we are.
08:40 Right, well, you're working for the Lord.
08:42 So do you have any other choice,
08:43 I mean than to have you happily ever after.
08:46 So we got married
08:48 and what we, what we didn't know
08:51 is that the past comes back to get you,
08:54 and I have a background
08:56 that includes incest and child abuse
08:58 and amongst all of that and you know,
09:02 you would like to think
09:04 that sexual abuse just goes away
09:05 because you're out of the situation.
09:07 And oh, if only that were true but it's not.
09:10 And so I brought that in to our marriage
09:14 not even realizing it
09:15 because I didn't have...
09:17 We got married, we got engaged when I was 20
09:19 and married right after I turned 21.
09:21 And I was still in school,
09:23 Richie was recently out of seminary or pastoring already
09:26 and we didn't have the language to be able to wrap around.
09:30 Oh, oh, now what?
09:32 Right, because I know a little bit about your journey
09:35 and you decided not to,
09:38 you know, some people really do decide
09:42 I want to do it right
09:43 and we're not going to have sex,
09:44 and we're not going to fool around,
09:46 and we're not going to push those boundaries
09:48 before our marriage, so you did all of that.
09:50 We did, we were super careful
09:52 and I'd like to say all of that was for very chaste
09:55 and moral reasons, those were there too,
09:58 but I think that looking back
09:59 I think that there was a part of me
10:01 that was really, really afraid to even open Pandora's box.
10:04 And so, if we don't play there,
10:05 then I don't have to worry about it,
10:07 again not a conscious decision
10:08 but so I was really, really comfortable
10:11 having very little physical relationship
10:14 because it felt safer,
10:16 but then we got married
10:18 and all of a sudden Pandora's box is right there
10:22 and accessible and it opened with force
10:26 I would say on our honeymoon.
10:28 So let me just say because that's intense,
10:30 but did you know some of her background stuff
10:32 before you married?
10:34 Did you know about the abuse? Did you know about...
10:37 No, there were some indicators before we were married,
10:40 but I don't think either of us connected the dots
10:42 before we were married to say, oh, that means this,
10:46 so it was like what's that about.
10:47 And we knew that there were some things were messed up.
10:49 You know her family,
10:51 there's things messed up in mine,
10:52 and we just kind of thought that must be you know...
10:55 Love will make it all go away.
10:57 Yeah. I know.
10:59 And you know there's some truth about
11:01 but we've got to do the work.
11:02 Yes. Sure.
11:04 So, you get married honeymoon you said,
11:08 all the sudden everything now by force.
11:11 What do you mean by that?
11:12 It means that we didn't know that we just didn't know
11:15 what we didn't know and so you know
11:17 we found physical intimacy to be incredibly challenging.
11:24 You know it doesn't happen like the movies boy howdy
11:27 and that's even, I think that's true
11:30 just from an inexperience standpoint,
11:32 let alone when you add trauma to it
11:35 and so, you know,
11:37 when sex didn't work on our honeymoon,
11:39 it started a cycle for us of Richie feeling rejected
11:43 and abandoned and so, you know, his response to that
11:47 was to get angry and in the face of anger...
11:51 An abuse kid.
11:52 Yeah, I ran away emotionally and so,
11:57 but then that made him feel more abandoned
11:59 because I just rejected and left him.
12:01 And so then he would, you know, emotionally pursue
12:04 and then I would keep backing up
12:07 until the cougar hit the corner,
12:09 and then I would come out with force
12:11 because they do have a lot of words
12:13 and I did use them.
12:15 And even saying that
12:16 when someone says, for you, Richie,
12:18 I'm sure is that you are going to stay here,
12:20 and we're going to work through this
12:21 and you're going to hear me,
12:23 and you see in her eyes, she's already gone.
12:25 It is the craziest thing for a couple
12:28 to want to scream at each other like
12:31 this shouldn't be happening like this.
12:33 I love you, you love me.
12:35 We can work this out
12:37 but we're saying it in anger and in fear,
12:40 and nobody hears anybody.
12:42 Right. Yeah.
12:43 You were going to say something.
12:44 I was just going to say, you know,
12:46 part of what was has been so challenging
12:48 is that everything that I knew or thought
12:52 would be an expression of love
12:55 because of her background and her story was not love.
13:00 It didn't feel like love,
13:01 it wasn't received as love and so that,
13:03 you know, it just created this place
13:05 where I'm dealing with my own feelings
13:07 of rejection and abandonment touching my story,
13:09 and I'm trying to figure out how to love her in her story,
13:13 but I don't understand her story
13:15 and everything I try comes off wrong
13:17 and it's jut this incredible hopeless mess.
13:21 It is incredible.
13:22 I remember and the first time
13:24 that that I felt Brad's breath
13:28 on my neck
13:30 and all the sudden it triggered all of my abuse
13:33 and he was just leaning over to kiss me and just say,
13:36 you know what, I just love you and I was repulsed.
13:41 And both of us knew at that moment
13:43 we're in trouble and none of us had words,
13:45 and so that's what you're saying,
13:47 it was that that real
13:48 that it was not what he was saying,
13:50 it was not what he was doing until the anger came in,
13:53 but it was like all of this stuff is triggered.
13:55 Yeah, I know Richie was, he was being tender,
13:57 he was being thoughtful, he was...
13:59 I mean we were both inexperienced but I mean,
14:03 but just entering into that arena
14:05 which I had so purposely chosen to stay out of.
14:09 And again unconsciously
14:10 so I didn't know that the freight train was coming
14:14 and so that really set us up
14:16 for years of that cycle of reject,
14:21 and Richie feeling rejected and then abandoned
14:24 and then angry, then me retreating.
14:27 And we just did it back and forth
14:30 and that became our crazy cycle of what we do
14:33 when we don't know how to do better.
14:35 And when you say crazy psycho,
14:36 because I know that at the same time
14:39 being in ministry,
14:40 you're still going to the church
14:42 and doing those gigs,
14:43 you're still ministering,
14:44 all of that kind of stuff is still happening.
14:47 And yet inside this is like a storm
14:51 that is, it won't go away.
14:52 That's right.
14:53 Well, and what's sad I think is sometimes in the church
14:55 we have this idea
14:57 that if you're a good Christian that,
14:59 that none of that, none of that stuff will happen.
15:01 It won't, it won't be there, God will just take it all away.
15:06 And so that,
15:07 I think I don't know
15:08 if anyone intentionally taught me that,
15:10 that's just kind of what I picked up
15:11 being living in churchy environments.
15:14 All I have to do is better devotions,
15:16 pray more, have good faith.
15:18 Right, exactly.
15:19 If I do those things,
15:21 my problems will magically disappear.
15:22 We'll love each other well,
15:23 we'll go out and save the world for Jesus and we didn't...
15:27 Did I tell you I love you
15:29 even when you say that kind of stuff
15:30 I feel, I just love you
15:32 because I know that you don't believe
15:34 that now but at that time everything in you believe that.
15:37 You bet.
15:39 And that's where early programming of oh, okay,
15:42 I don't know how to deal with the chaos that is true.
15:44 So I will just put on my ministry face
15:46 and we will go and act like
15:48 everything is very pristine
15:50 when in reality
15:51 we are falling apart and this is,
15:54 you know, we've been married for three weeks,
15:56 you know, I go back to school
15:58 and think oh, yeah, that's good.
15:59 And I was a theology major...
16:00 How was your honeymoon?
16:02 It was great no,
16:05 but of course you don't say that...
16:07 To anybody. To anybody at all.
16:10 And so that, I said we just had years
16:12 of really committing to do better
16:15 but not having the tools to know how,
16:17 we had no idea
16:19 how to make a transition because between
16:22 where Richie came from, you know,
16:23 which was a lot of chaos as well and where I came from.
16:26 We both had a lot of dysfunctional habits
16:29 that we didn't know weren't right.
16:30 We believed a lot of lies, because how can you.
16:34 You can't come out unscathed.
16:35 You know this idea of resilient children
16:37 is both completely true and not
16:39 because resiliency suggests
16:41 that you're going to go back to your original state,
16:43 it doesn't happen...
16:45 Because it wasn't in the original state.
16:47 There wasn't something that was healthy.
16:49 Exactly and it even changes your DNA and your biology,
16:50 I've been reading neuroscience slightly
16:52 and it's really amazing
16:53 but, you know,
16:55 you can't go back to the original state
16:56 so you bring all of that with you
16:59 both habitually as well as the, you know,
17:02 what you saw modelled
17:04 and when you bring it into marriage
17:05 and go yeah, let's do a good job...
17:08 But you know even and I know that both of you know this,
17:12 but I want to say this out loud
17:13 because it's we start to even say, okay, I get it.
17:19 We just need to talk to each other.
17:21 But we're talking to each other through our dysfunction.
17:24 So you're not hearing the things she's saying,
17:26 you're not hearing a thing he says
17:28 and everybody is triggered even more by that
17:30 all just wanting to dialogue
17:32 so it really is.
17:34 When we talk about we have an enemy
17:35 that is very strategic in saying,
17:37 you know what, you think you're going to be one flesh,
17:39 hello, you know.
17:41 So we have an enemy that says, I'm not...
17:42 It's going to be like
17:43 you're talking two different languages
17:45 and I love what you guys say,
17:47 because you say and for years we were in that vortex.
17:52 Actually we want to do better but we didn't know how,
17:54 I mean like we used to talk about the communication thing.
17:57 It was so bad when we first got married.
17:58 Again, things you don't know aren't normal.
18:00 I have a radio in my head
18:02 and when conflict starts to rise
18:04 so does the volume of the radio in my head.
18:06 I can feel, I can hear full symphonies,
18:09 full orchestras and his voice would just go away.
18:12 So you dissociate really well.
18:14 I'm a pro learning to repent of that too.
18:17 And, but, so he would come to the end of a conversation
18:20 that had been highly conflictual
18:22 and he be like, and he like, did you get it.
18:23 Have you like, oh, I'm in trouble
18:25 because I had no idea we just talked about it.
18:28 I just, I wasn't, I wasn't, I went to my calm place
18:31 which again, I learned really early
18:33 that's the safe place to be chaos can go.
18:35 But if you go into the calm place in your head,
18:37 you're going to be okay.
18:38 And, you know, I'm looking at you, Richie,
18:40 knowing that you spent your life alone
18:42 wanting to connect and feeling like
18:44 you're not good enough, I'll never be good enough.
18:47 So when she disappears, you are alone.
18:49 Yeah, it just felt like, well, when we tell our story,
18:52 you know, I talk about how when I met her,
18:55 I felt the aloneness begin to leave
18:57 and I thought oh,
18:59 I could never be alone again,
19:00 that could not be my reality
19:02 and then we got married
19:04 and I found myself right next to her,
19:06 but completely alone, and it wasn't just me,
19:08 she was alone too.
19:10 And the amazing thing was we were great actors.
19:12 So while all of this was going on,
19:14 I remember we went to some meetings one day,
19:16 and a good friend of ours saw us comes through the doors
19:19 this meeting any comes and he's had his hand and says,
19:21 "Oh, you two are just the perfect couple.
19:24 You're just the perfect couple."
19:25 And we've just been fighting in the car and we were,
19:29 you know, as Timmy said,
19:30 you don't know what you don't know.
19:32 We were trying to act, we just were good actors
19:34 and we were playing the part.
19:36 And you've learned it your whole life,
19:37 your whole life.
19:38 The whole life set you up for this role.
19:40 Yep. Yep.
19:41 But this role kills us. Yes.
19:44 So you are alone. You're feeling hopeless.
19:48 You're trying to do this by yourself.
19:49 You're working harder probably doing more jobs,
19:53 setting up more ministry things,
19:54 because I don't know what to do here.
19:57 So what happens?
19:59 Well, we start church planting
20:01 because that's a very peaceful...
20:03 That's exactly what you should do next.
20:04 That's exactly what we should do next
20:07 and it was completely providential
20:09 what God did.
20:10 It started out with a negative conversation
20:14 which unfortunately much impetus
20:17 can come from negative conversations
20:19 but which is like
20:21 you just need to get a job, okay.
20:23 I was in school, he's like you need to get a job,
20:24 I'm like fine, I'll get a job then.
20:27 And with that attitude and head bubble and...
20:31 And so I found a job at a homeless shelter
20:34 for women children non-denominational.
20:37 And I was going to go save a different world,
20:39 because this world wasn't working,
20:41 and I got there and didn't know
20:44 that I had real issues with women.
20:46 I didn't know that.
20:48 And now I'm working in an environment
20:49 where literally there's roughly 60 women and that's all.
20:52 So I'd just say just for women to me
20:55 because a lot of people don't touch on this
20:57 is when we're damaging and families that break up
21:00 and divorces and all that kind of stuff.
21:02 I don't think we realize all of those women issues
21:06 and mother issues and that disconnect
21:08 and God is saying,
21:10 "You surrendering yourself to me,
21:12 and I have to go to all of those places
21:15 and get you to trust me to open that up,"
21:17 and so for him to set you up
21:19 where you are surrounded by women, that is...
21:22 I'm just proud of God,
21:23 I want to kiss him all over the face.
21:25 I want to say how do you do that where you,
21:27 it's not a forced healing.
21:30 But he says, "You're asking for healing
21:31 and I'm going to have
21:32 to take you through some painful places."
21:35 And he put such beautiful amazing women in my face,
21:39 in my face.
21:41 And I mean literally
21:44 you know ones who would say,
21:45 "Honey, let me just pray for you,"
21:47 and would go like this and they want to hold my hands.
21:49 Yeah, it's like, well, I'm good.
21:51 Yeah, I'm great, thanks,
21:52 you can pray on your side of the room.
21:54 And of course, I didn't go of course,
21:57 but inside I'm going...
21:58 I don't know how to be touched,
22:00 I don't know how to open up that way.
22:01 Well, certainly not like that,
22:02 I mean this whole mixing of spiritual relationships
22:05 and real life thing I've never tried
22:07 that before and it was, it was messing with my facade
22:11 because if my thought is, my facade is pristine,
22:15 and then now you're trying to enter past that,
22:17 what does that do and that created,
22:20 I would say more chaos at home
22:22 because it disrupted me and I didn't know what to do.
22:26 And so, you know,
22:27 I came home more disrupted
22:29 and that did not help our relationship.
22:33 There was so much pressure with,
22:36 you know, what was going on in her story
22:38 and then our church plant was harder than I had thought.
22:41 We've kind of been the golden children
22:42 so everything we touch would turn to gold
22:44 in this project...
22:45 No, it's not.
22:46 It was hard work and it was not taken off like a rocket ship
22:49 and so everything was just a pressure cooker
22:52 and crushing us both in our own areas
22:55 of brokenness and woundedness,
22:57 and we had no idea that's what was going on
22:59 but that's what was happening.
23:00 That was happening and it's really interesting
23:03 when God starts to allow you to get touched by someone
23:07 and then you feel a little taste
23:09 of what intimacy would be like
23:11 and now you wanted in your home.
23:15 But we didn't have that and we...
23:18 I wouldn't say that, yeah,
23:19 we didn't know the depths of what we didn't have
23:22 because our templates were so broken.
23:25 You know we sometimes make a joke, you know,
23:27 sometimes those red flags that come up.
23:29 They've been broken off at the bottom
23:31 so they can wag as much as they want.
23:32 You're never going to see him
23:34 because they're not there anymore.
23:35 And so, you know,
23:38 we found ourselves working really hard
23:41 and really trying to love well.
23:43 I mean I can say we had no tools
23:45 but we were determined and I think,
23:47 if I were to say that if there is anything
23:49 that God infused into us during that season,
23:52 it was just perseverance because we tried everything,
23:55 we read so many books, we were so determined.
23:58 I think I can truthfully say, we turned over every stone
24:01 trying to figure out is there a better way
24:03 or is this really all there is to hope for.
24:06 And so what you are saying is that man,
24:10 we have to heal, it has to be real.
24:13 And I love you know because, Richie,
24:15 we talked to you on another program
24:16 when you talked about,
24:18 you eventually grab some mentors
24:19 did all that kind of stuff.
24:20 These women were life changing
24:23 and so God really started to change things
24:25 but you said something at one point
24:28 about contempt and anger and those kind of things
24:33 because those are some real big things bitterness
24:35 where all the sudden,
24:37 I'm looking at you and I hate the fact
24:38 that I have to confront all this and it's your fault,
24:42 because we tend in relationships
24:43 to really blame each other, you're crazy.
24:46 You brought all this stuff.
24:48 And so, how do you get past that stage
24:50 because I know you're not there now.
24:52 It's true, we're not.
24:54 You know, it look different for both of us.
24:57 Like for me,
24:58 for a lot of our marriage we just kind of,
25:00 we agreed that Timmy was really the issue right,
25:02 because of her past and stuff
25:04 and there was really very little light
25:06 on my story for a lot,
25:07 first eight and half years of our marriage.
25:09 And so, I don't know
25:11 if I would have been thinking
25:13 about this word contempt is that how I felt
25:15 but I definitely was very comfortable
25:17 and happy to believe
25:19 that it was all her issue, right.
25:21 Because this wasn't something
25:22 and we're going to break and then come back
25:24 but this wasn't something that you pretended to believe,
25:28 it wasn't that you were in denial
25:30 and hiding this from her
25:31 that you literally felt this was your issue.
25:34 If you got your stuff together, we would be okay.
25:37 So we're gonna take a break
25:39 and I want to say for any couple
25:40 out there that is saying right now me too, that's us.
25:45 You know that kind of thing is that, it is amazing
25:48 when we can break denial and say,
25:50 "God, can you fix this."
25:52 And if you shut your eyes right now and just say,
25:54 God, can you fix this, you will hear the sweetest yes,
25:58 you ever heard.
26:00 And so we would be right back because I want to hear.
26:02 I want to let you see the rest of their journey
26:05 and what God Himself could do in a relationship.
26:07 It is absolutely amazing. Be right back.