Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Richie & Timari Brower
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000132A
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behaviour.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:11 When I met Timmy and Richie Brower,
00:13 I heard them say that their relationship was hemorrhaging
00:16 that they were bleeding to death,
00:18 and it caught my attention
00:20 because I knew what that felt like.
00:22 You're gonna love these next guests
00:23 and you're gonna love their healing,
00:25 it was amazing.
00:27 Welcome to Celebrating Life in Recovery.
00:29 I'm Cheri, your host,
00:31 and I just can't wait
00:33 to introduce you to my friends.
00:35 Come join us on the cafe.
01:03 Today we're gonna be talking about relationships,
01:05 marriage connection and somebody says,
01:08 "Why do we need to talk about that?"
01:09 Just look around you, because I really,
01:11 when I first came into the church
01:13 what I realized is that
01:15 I don't know if a lot of us really know
01:18 how to be ourselves, be in our own skin,
01:22 and then really step into relationship.
01:24 And as I started to learn that,
01:27 even with Brad and I.
01:28 And you've met my husband, he's adorable.
01:31 But, man, we had to go through a ton of stuff,
01:34 so I'm going to introduce you to our guest
01:36 right out of the gate
01:38 because I want to give them a lot of time
01:40 to share with you who they are
01:43 and what they learned about relationships.
01:46 So Richie Brower, Timmy,
01:48 and you have a ministry of your own that you do
01:52 and what's that called?
01:53 It's called Marriage Conversion,
01:54 and we travel and do seminars in churches
01:57 and events across North America.
02:00 And then we have online sites, websites
02:02 that we have where people can come and watch training videos.
02:06 We do live webinars and different things like that,
02:08 all supporting people in getting tools
02:11 to strengthen their marriages.
02:13 That's awesome.
02:14 Is that because you've always been such an expert?
02:19 'Cause I heard you speak.
02:21 I'm thinking that sounded so good,
02:22 but you know what?
02:24 I want to know,
02:26 we're gonna do a couple of programs with you guys,
02:28 but I want to know, Richie,
02:30 where did you come from
02:31 and how were you when you stepped into relationship?
02:34 Oh, mercy.
02:36 Well, where I come from.
02:37 I was an expert in marriage by the time I was 13.
02:40 I had read 13 books
02:42 on the topic of marriage and courtship
02:44 by the time I was 13 years old.
02:47 Because of where I come from. Okay.
02:48 So I come from a family,
02:50 it was a church attending family,
02:53 but my home was a home of tremendous chaos,
02:58 if you walked into your house
03:00 which no one was allowed to when I was a kid,
03:02 but if you did walk into our house,
03:03 you would have seen the house
03:04 that was literally full of trash,
03:07 mounds of garbage everywhere, magazines, books,
03:10 wrappers whatever.
03:11 And there were aisles through the garbage...
03:13 So actually from a hoarding family.
03:15 Yeah, just piles of stuff.
03:18 And there was aisles through the garbage,
03:20 but if you want to sit on a chair,
03:22 you'd have to follow the aisle through the trash
03:24 and then pick up a stack of magazines
03:25 or something on the chair and set it aside.
03:28 There was dishes in the sink.
03:29 They were always dirty.
03:31 There was never, would not never rarely
03:34 a warm meal on the table as a kid,
03:37 and so literally for me growing up, you know,
03:41 I wake up in the morning
03:42 and I had a cousin of my age
03:44 who was living in our home with us at the time,
03:46 and my daddy gone to work
03:47 and he would have made breakfast,
03:49 but he made an hour ago and it was oatmeal,
03:51 so by the time we got there, it's anything but appealing.
03:54 So food became a really big deal to me
03:57 because we didn't have it, so that was part of the chaos.
04:01 The other part of the chaos is that my family,
04:04 my parents, their marriage was in chaos,
04:07 and a lot of tension and strife.
04:09 And sometimes that would come out in conflict.
04:11 And so there was times
04:13 when things were thrown at each other in my presence
04:15 as a kid seeing that
04:18 domestic violence happening there,
04:19 and probably some of the most profound impact on my heart
04:25 as a kid came from how those fights would end
04:28 in the way the fight ended between my parents
04:31 would be with my mom
04:32 storming out the door and saying,
04:34 "I'm just gonna go kill myself."
04:36 And then she'd get in the car...
04:37 Were you only kid, only child?
04:39 I'm one of three,
04:40 but I'm ten years younger than my nearest sibling,
04:43 so my siblings had gone away to boarding school
04:45 and so it was me, and I had a cousin
04:47 who she'd come to live with us for several years.
04:49 She was nine months younger than me,
04:51 so there was two of us and then it was just me
04:53 when she went back to her mom.
04:55 So my mom would make this statement,
04:57 this threat and she went out the door
04:59 and I don't remember this,
05:01 but my big sister said,
05:03 "She'd be gone sometimes for ten days."
05:05 She just go camping.
05:07 And have no idea did she kill herself?
05:08 Is she alive?
05:10 Is she coming back? Right.
05:11 This is before cell phones, so there's no way to reach her,
05:14 she just disappeared.
05:15 And so as a boy,
05:17 I had a reoccurring nightmare and it's interesting,
05:20 the nightmare was,
05:22 it was a night time along the county road near our home,
05:25 and I would have this dream of my dad ironically,
05:28 my dad stepping out in front of a full sized semi truck
05:32 in the dark and being hit.
05:34 And so there was just incredible chaos
05:37 and so as a boy that...
05:40 I can't imagine, I just have to say Richie,
05:41 I can't imagine that when you said,
05:44 I grabbed 'cause when you said,
05:46 I read all these books before I was 13,
05:48 I thought who,
05:49 no 13 year old reads all this stuff is that
05:51 you were trying to make sense in any way,
05:54 can someone give me some information
05:56 because I'm not going to survive.
05:58 That's right, yeah.
06:00 So there was just the sense of...
06:03 I don't know if I'm going to make it and I made.
06:05 My parents divorced when I was eight and a half,
06:08 and in many ways that was a relief.
06:10 I would have told you as a kid, it's better.
06:13 And so,
06:14 they decided that
06:16 they didn't want to drag me through a custody battle.
06:18 So I remember we lived in a home
06:20 where there was a wall part way down the stairs
06:23 of the two story home and I live,
06:25 my room was upstairs
06:26 and there's a wall that came part way down
06:28 and then the rest was open the living room.
06:30 And one night I heard them talking downstairs,
06:32 I wasn't asleep yet.
06:33 And I snuck down the stairs so I was behind that wall
06:37 and I'm listening to my parents
06:39 planning their divorce and they made a decision,
06:42 they didn't want to have a custody battle...
06:44 And no one had talked to you yet.
06:45 No, no one had talked to me.
06:47 So they're planning their divorce and they said,
06:49 "We don't want to have a custody battle,
06:51 so let's just ask Richie who he wants to live with."
06:53 I was eight and a half.
06:55 So that's what happened.
06:56 My mom took me to ice cream, went to Dairy Queen...
06:59 No way, you're talking eight years old
07:01 and in with ice cream in front of you,
07:04 somebody's trying to say,
07:05 do you love me or your dad more.
07:07 I mean because basically that's what
07:08 an eight year old is going to hear.
07:11 So an amazing thing happened,
07:13 this was one of the first instances
07:14 looking back on my life where I say,
07:15 God just showed up right there.
07:17 We're sitting in our little Volkswagen buggy
07:18 outside Dairy Queen
07:20 and I looked at my mom and I said,
07:22 "I want to live with dad."
07:25 There's no way that I don't know
07:27 how I came to that conclusion,
07:29 but it was absolutely the right decision.
07:31 I love both my parents
07:32 but my dad was the healthier of the two
07:35 at that point in their lives.
07:36 Because even with the hoarding
07:38 when you talk about all of the chaos
07:39 and all of the hoarding and the suicidal stop,
07:42 you saw that primarily from mom.
07:44 Dad would go to work, he would come back,
07:47 he was there for you more healthier.
07:51 Hard to say that anybody was really there
07:53 for any of us kids.
07:54 He had his own stuff going but he was healthier,
07:58 he was more balanced I guess at that point.
08:00 So there was,
08:02 there was other things going on with dad
08:03 that those would surface later when I was an adult but,
08:07 so eight and a half, mom and dad divorced,
08:09 and now it's dad and I.
08:12 And so now I would come home from school, you know,
08:17 and my dad was selling Christian books door to door
08:20 and so he worked until 9:30, 10 o'clock at night
08:22 and I get home from school at 3:30, 4 o'clock.
08:26 And so the difference the time in between was time
08:28 that I was a latchkey kid, let myself in,
08:31 I'd cook supper for myself or if I, you know,
08:33 I had a wide repertoire, I could make toast.
08:36 Graham crackers and milk and I think mac and cheese.
08:40 So those were my options
08:41 and so that's what life looks like
08:44 until through sixth grade I lived with my dad
08:49 and was that was kind of how things went
08:50 through most of that time.
08:52 Did you realize at that time, Richie,
08:53 that you really learned to rely on yourself only?
08:57 No, I had no clue. Yeah.
08:59 You know as I became an adult
09:03 and started actually taking a look at my own story
09:05 in a way that I hadn't prior to that,
09:07 I realized that I actually made a vow,
09:10 not a conscious about it but I made a vow,
09:12 I will never be dependent on anyone but myself.
09:17 And I didn't realize I made that vow but I had,
09:19 and that's a tough vow to live with
09:21 especially when you end up choosing to be a pastor,
09:24 and you've made a vow to trust no one
09:26 which of course has to include God.
09:29 And so that,
09:30 that started having all kinds of implications
09:33 when I met this girl and we got married.
09:34 So how did you...
09:35 And so, Timmy, even hearing this story,
09:39 you're hearing this story,
09:41 for me it must still make you feel like,
09:45 "Man, I'm sorry for what you went through."
09:49 You bet, specially, you know, we have,
09:50 we have three little boys
09:51 and as I think of any of them
09:54 in even just one of those segments of his life,
09:57 let alone all of it, it's absolutely heartbreaking,
10:00 because I know that they couldn't handle it.
10:03 And I'm so grateful that they couldn't.
10:05 They're not supposed to...
10:06 Exactly, they're not supposed to
10:08 and it is both...
10:10 It's a testimony to God in Richie's life
10:12 that he is where he is now.
10:14 So how did you guys meet?
10:16 Usually how did you decide pastoral work, I mean.
10:19 Oh, well, you know,
10:21 I read those 13 books on marriage.
10:24 By 13.
10:26 By 13, yeah, you know, I actually...
10:29 because my dad worked for the church
10:30 selling Christian books and stuff.
10:32 I watched how that worked for him
10:33 and I made another vow,
10:34 "I'll never work for the church,"
10:36 was another vow,
10:38 I said, "No way no how."
10:39 But as I entered into junior high and high school,
10:43 I had the ability to talk
10:45 and people see that in young people they say,
10:48 "Oh, you want to be a pastor."
10:49 And I said, "No way."
10:53 But there came a day
10:54 after working at summer camp for a lot of years.
10:57 I love summer camp, I thought I can do that
10:59 and that was fun.
11:01 So working at campus staff,
11:02 there came a day on a beach in Australia,
11:06 where I was with one of my mentors and heroes.
11:09 We were on a tour,
11:10 he was speaking for youth invents and stuff
11:12 and we were doing drama.
11:14 And on that beach
11:16 he looked at me one night after the program
11:18 for the youth had finished there on the beach in Australia
11:19 and he said, "You know,
11:21 we could really use people like you in the ministry."
11:23 And that was the beginning and God used other men
11:26 that I love and respect to speak into my life and said,
11:30 "This is your call."
11:31 So I was a business major and college
11:34 and felt like God said,
11:36 "No, I want you to go and become pastor."
11:37 So I really and I don't want to spend too much time on this
11:40 because I know that, you know,
11:43 what we're going to discuss today.
11:45 But you said something that I think is crucial
11:47 for the church to hear is that
11:49 you had men that spoke into your life,
11:52 you had mentors along the way.
11:54 You're from this crazy home when you shut the door,
11:57 life is way different
11:59 but someone saw something in you
12:00 and gave you that time.
12:02 Yeah, and that's part of the gift
12:04 that God has given me through the church is that
12:07 there's been multiple people, men and women,
12:09 I adopted moms, I adopted men,
12:12 I never, I didn't call most of them dad,
12:14 but I've adopted people who just spoke into my life
12:17 in different seasons
12:19 and part of where the corner was turned in Richie's life
12:23 was when the parents of my best friend
12:26 first through third grade, my best friend.
12:28 His parents they agreed to take me into their home
12:33 starting with the summer after my sixth grade year.
12:35 So I went to visit for the summer
12:37 and I end up staying that became my home.
12:39 And I adopted them, they adopted me
12:41 and I called them mom and dad to this day
12:43 and they call me their other son.
12:45 And so somebody is now saying let me make dinner for you.
12:49 You know, this is not your job,
12:51 go play, do your homework.
12:53 Do your chores.
12:55 Clean your room.
12:57 All the things that you...
12:58 and I loved it, I had boundaries
13:00 and also my life starts to take shape and substance
13:04 and so I read these 13 books on relationship.
13:06 And now my adopted mom says,
13:09 "Hey, why don't come sit with me on the bed
13:11 and we're going to talk about,"
13:12 and she opens this book to me on Characters
13:14 and Personalities.
13:16 First time I ever heard about cleric,
13:17 phlegmatic all those kind of things,
13:19 and I start to learn about who God made me to be
13:21 and how I'm wired.
13:23 Now, we didn't talk about how my wounding
13:25 had affected my wiring at that point,
13:27 but I started getting a picture of,
13:29 whoa, I could do something in the world,
13:31 and that was really a turning point right there
13:33 in seventh and eighth grade.
13:35 And so I went into high school feeling like,
13:37 you know what, I am made to do big things.
13:40 And so I thought, you know,
13:43 I felt like I had a pretty normal
13:45 background at that point.
13:47 If you would ask me I would say,
13:48 no, I come from a normal family, you know,
13:50 I mean isn't that what everybody certainly looks like
13:52 and so...
13:54 I love when you say that
13:55 because even as I'm hearing your story
13:57 that we really do believe that we're normal
13:59 until we start looking around and saying,
14:01 "Man, that had to have twisted me."
14:06 Even for you when you,
14:07 when you talk about those trust levels
14:09 and vowing that you know I'm not going to trust anybody.
14:12 I'm going to take care of myself,
14:13 all of those things,
14:15 and each mentor in each relationship
14:17 really kind of put a chisel to that
14:20 and started cracking that open.
14:23 That's huge.
14:24 So did you guys meet in college,
14:27 and when did you meet?
14:28 He's very old, we could have never met in college.
14:31 We were never there at the same time...
14:33 Se, I didn't know he was that old.
14:34 Yes, he is very mature clearly.
14:38 No, we actually met at summer camp
14:39 because Richie just kept going back
14:41 until I got old enough.
14:44 We actually tell the joke that
14:45 we both started at summer camp the same year
14:47 because we did, the difference is he was staff
14:49 and I was a adventurer camper, I was eight.
14:53 Thankfully I have absolutely no recollection of that
14:56 because that would've been so scarring to have...
14:58 She took rock climbing for me.
15:00 But the girl that was teaching with him.
15:02 Oh, she was one of the big girls
15:04 and she was so pretty.
15:05 You know, when you're little and you're...
15:07 I mean, oh, my goodness
15:08 I have no recollection of him whatsoever.
15:11 But I did come back a staff of legal age
15:15 and that's how we met,
15:18 we just started talking
15:19 and we were both theology majors,
15:22 he had been, he was pastoring at that point,
15:23 I was a theology major, he was in seminary.
15:26 And we just started talking about big things
15:29 and big ideas and God
15:33 and just big few things
15:36 and not very many people talked like he talks.
15:39 He does have a gift of talking, he was right.
15:41 And there was one night in particular
15:43 I remember it was raining,
15:45 I didn't have a cab in that week,
15:46 and we just sat on the steps as the rain came down
15:49 and talked about life
15:50 and what we want to be when we grow up
15:52 and we just we started deep almost instantly of, you know,
15:57 where is God taking us,
15:59 and what does He want from us
16:01 in exciting adventurous sort of ways...
16:04 What's incredible even as you're talking is that
16:07 it sounds like that you fully saw each other, you know,
16:12 and what you dreamed about, saw each other spiritually.
16:15 This is what I dream about.
16:18 This is how God has touched my life
16:19 and for whatever reason decided to share that with each other
16:23 and it was receptive.
16:24 Because some people would look at you and say,
16:26 "That's crazy, let's go rock climbing."
16:28 What are you talking about?
16:29 Yeah, we did that too, but yeah, we just,
16:32 we started off our pricing within our second conversation,
16:35 we went really deep really fast
16:38 and we've always dreamed together.
16:41 You know we can be in the depths of marital chaos
16:45 and be dreaming about helping marriages some day
16:49 and I really think...
16:51 After we get through meeting I'm gonna tell you.
16:53 Right, when that part is gone,
16:57 and so that has something
16:58 God has placed in both of our hearts big dreams.
17:01 We're always dreaming
17:02 and we seem to have given birth to dreamers as well.
17:05 So at that time, you guys really connect.
17:09 Now, you're working together in camp.
17:11 When did you know that more than likely
17:15 this is my wife,
17:17 more than likely this is my husband?
17:19 Well, we...
17:20 Well, I'll let you talk in just a minute.
17:22 We got through the summer from hell
17:24 is how we affectionately call it
17:26 and we figured
17:27 marriage could not possibly be worse than this
17:29 so we should consider it.
17:31 What made it so hard to get through?
17:35 What was difficult about that summer?
17:36 Well, that was our second summer.
17:38 We've been dating for about nine months,
17:40 long distance at that point,
17:42 and we just couldn't see eye to eye on diddly-squat.
17:46 I mean, I did like let's go this direction.
17:48 No, over there is the Promised Land.
17:50 I mean everything was different, we couldn't...
17:54 Which pretty wraps up,
17:55 pretty much wraps up how marriage went to...
17:57 For the first eight years, pretty much,
17:58 that does sum up that.
18:01 I think some, you know, control on my side
18:03 and jealousy and different things
18:05 in that environment with, you know,
18:06 all the camp staff and stuff.
18:08 There's a lot of communication, should have been some red flags
18:10 with all those 13 books I had read but...
18:14 Because I should have that information.
18:16 That's right.
18:17 But you know, and I've got to get back
18:18 because I think sometimes we forget
18:20 we're in the midst of falling in love
18:22 and seeing that, you know what,
18:24 I think this is my life partner
18:25 but then all of the stuff that we have been carrying
18:29 starts to kind of bubble up to the surface.
18:33 And we didn't even know that
18:34 what we didn't know at that point,
18:36 I mean we both thought we had pretty normal childhoods
18:39 and so we were coming into, you know,
18:41 do good things for God and for ministry,
18:43 he was kind of lucky to have us on his team...
18:45 Yeah, that's how we felt.
18:47 That's kind of how,
18:48 I mean we would have never worded it that way,
18:49 not quite that verbally arrogant,
18:52 I was not quite that really arrogant...
18:55 But, you know, how many people has God said,
18:58 you know what, that's cute
18:59 but we're going to have to work on that.
19:02 And if you really love someone,
19:03 you'll pray that prayer on their behalf
19:05 because he will be faithful to show up
19:07 and show you that, you're really...
19:09 He's really, really lucky
19:11 that he has a really good summer.
19:12 So during that summer
19:15 where everything was opposite
19:16 and you could see those opposites
19:18 just coming out like crazy.
19:22 I know that for you,
19:23 even the way you tell the story,
19:25 it was crazy making. It was.
19:27 Like I just want you to see that this is not making sense.
19:30 So I just want you to get it that, you know,
19:32 I'm the spiritual leader.
19:34 You know, whatever it is so give me an instant.
19:38 For instance what did it look like
19:41 and but you walked right into the relationship anyway.
19:44 Yeah, we did.
19:46 I'm trying to think of a good story...
19:47 Because it was a million years ago.
19:49 There was a bunch, you know,
19:51 I can think of, you know, there was, there was one.
19:54 There was one guy's staff who...
19:57 He just really, you know, he didn't like me,
20:00 we didn't get along very well
20:02 and so he made a point of being really friendly to Timmy,
20:05 and it just frosted my hide and she didn't really see
20:08 why that was a problem
20:10 so that was an example of this...
20:12 This gentlemen I had been friends,
20:14 well, he was yeah,
20:15 we've been friends at college
20:17 but Richie and I had been dating long distance
20:19 so like my normal relationships at school
20:21 weren't really affected by having a boyfriend.
20:24 And so that was it, and that was probably
20:27 the hardest transition of going into camp.
20:29 All of a sudden this person I'm dating who I do love,
20:32 he's here in the flesh.
20:34 And it was like, oh, oh, everything has to adjust
20:38 and it was rather earth quaking...
20:39 Hard adjustment but,
20:40 there was this weird thing
20:42 and neither of us can remember why we did this,
20:44 but going into that summer we made a rule
20:47 and the rule was,
20:49 we're not going to break up unless we both agree
20:51 that that's what needs to happen at that time.
20:53 And that summer I don't know how many times one of us said,
20:57 "I think we just need be done."
20:58 I'm done.
21:00 And the other one said,
21:01 "No, I don't think we're done yet."
21:03 I don't know were that really came from...
21:05 And we both abided by it which is really strange.
21:08 So he said, you know, you're right we need to quit.
21:11 Actually I don't think that now.
21:12 I think we need to stay together
21:14 and keep trying.
21:15 We can work this out
21:17 and he's like, "No, I don't think we can,
21:18 we can, we can."
21:19 And then, you know,
21:21 another few days, you're right,
21:22 we should just throw in the towel
21:23 he's like, "No, I see hope.
21:27 Seriously that's how it went the whole summer.
21:29 And we made it to the end of the summer still together
21:32 because we could never agree just to break up
21:35 and we decided to just try dating in the same state
21:39 just for giggles
21:40 and so I went out to do my undergrad
21:42 where he was doing seminary
21:44 and we started talking about marriage
21:47 because it couldn't be worse than what we just did,
21:49 we were so sure.
21:51 I love and I don't know
21:52 how many people are probably watching this says,
21:54 that's exactly what I felt like
21:56 but we go through this tumultuous relationship
22:00 and everybody's still talking marriage,
22:02 that just cracks me up.
22:03 Yeah, yeah.
22:05 Well, and we didn't have a whole lot of templates
22:07 at that point to know what healthy relationship,
22:10 what marital love should look like.
22:13 I mean I said neither one of us did.
22:15 And so we were kind of weaving a prayer in it through
22:18 and we didn't pray and we were very intentional,
22:22 we asked specific people in our lives after that
22:26 very, very bad summer.
22:28 We, you know, we said,
22:29 "Hey, we're thinking about marriage
22:30 and we really want to have a God honoring marriage
22:33 and so."
22:34 What do you think? Yeah, what do you think?
22:36 And these are people not inside of our family
22:37 who had worked with us in ministry together
22:39 and say, you know,
22:40 if you have any concerns at all anywhere,
22:43 we will either put our engagement on hold
22:45 or we will call it off completely.
22:48 If you say anything and everyone's like,
22:50 "Oh, we love you guys, we think you're great,
22:54 we just think you're going to do good things for God,
22:56 go forth, kids."
22:57 Okay, we shall go forth."
23:00 And then we were ready
23:02 and so we got married
23:04 and then we got into our honeymoon
23:08 which was...
23:11 That is not a honeymoon look face,
23:14 I'm just saying, it was like end.
23:17 And then all the things we didn't know,
23:20 we didn't know smashed us on the head like an anvil,
23:23 would that be appropriate?
23:25 Yeah, so we went off on our honeymoon,
23:26 I mean like a lot of young couples
23:28 we had, we had, you know, said,
23:30 we're going to save physical intimacy for marriage
23:33 and so we were excited about the honeymoon
23:35 and talking about how great this is going to be to connect,
23:38 you know sexually and we're looking forward to it
23:41 and so we leave our wedding day exhausted,
23:43 you know...
23:45 That's a tiring day. And hungry.
23:46 Yeah and hungry,
23:48 and we're off on our honeymoon
23:49 and everything fell apart the first...
23:52 What do you mean?
23:54 Well, sex didn't work for us and we don't know why,
23:57 we read the books.
23:59 So now, I mean I'm in 20 books but we, we...
24:02 So we've read the books
24:03 on how sex is supposed to work in marriage and all that...
24:05 And I've seen the movies
24:07 where all the sudden everybody is just,
24:08 it's all that...
24:09 Well, we didn't want marital counseling
24:11 and he warned us.
24:12 Okay, it's not going to be like the movies.
24:14 Thank you.
24:15 Okay, we are ready then.
24:16 So that's all it really takes
24:18 it's not like the movies and biology will take over.
24:20 Okay, we're ready then. Yeah.
24:22 But, well, biology didn't take over,
24:24 now we understand that.
24:25 But it wasn't the way that most people would expect
24:28 and so it literally did not work
24:30 and there was pain instead of pleasure.
24:33 And so that touched
24:34 all kinds of things inside of me
24:36 and all kinds of things inside of her
24:38 and so the way that our honeymoon
24:39 ended quite literally was...
24:41 I remember one evening
24:43 we were on an island destination
24:44 and we're sitting on a beach
24:46 beautiful sunset over the ocean.
24:48 And we're watching this sunset,
24:50 Timmy on one end of the beach and Richie on the other.
24:54 And that's how we started marriage
24:56 and we went into our marriage
24:58 so we had the summer from hell,
25:00 and now we have the honeymoon from hell,
25:02 and now we go into the first year from hell.
25:05 But I'm already pastoring...
25:08 So I have a district that I'm a part of...
25:09 And even when you say that
25:11 because most people don't know that as a pastoral couple
25:14 when you walk in everybody puts their smile on,
25:17 we got our suit on,
25:19 you know how was your honeymoon?
25:20 It was great.
25:22 Let me show you some pictures
25:24 and you're walking back into the house saying,
25:26 what have I done?
25:28 Well, and it wasn't that we necessarily, I know,
25:30 what have I done,
25:31 like we weren't committed to each other.
25:33 We just, we didn't have any idea
25:35 what was the way forward.
25:36 I mean is there a way forward
25:38 and because we were already in ministry,
25:40 I was finishing college,
25:42 Richie was pastoring and I was commuting to school.
25:44 But we didn't, we didn't even know
25:46 how to ask for help.
25:47 We didn't know where to ask for help.
25:49 Who do you ask when you're the ones
25:50 who are supposed to be the, you know,
25:51 religious know it alls.
25:54 You know, where do you go and what do you do,
25:56 and we were at a complete loss.
25:59 So what that meant is we were trying really hard
26:01 reading more books because we're both readers.
26:04 You know, we're reading books
26:05 and we're trying to figure it out,
26:07 but we have no tools.
26:08 We don't even know how to put language around
26:11 what's happening to even tell someone about it
26:14 and yet we have to go out
26:16 and put on our happy ministry faces
26:18 so it was literally a...
26:20 I would like to say
26:22 this is a great time for us to take a break and come back,
26:25 because what I'm seeing is with everything
26:30 that you've described
26:32 as described as far as childhood,
26:34 all of the thing that led to this,
26:36 you're happy ever after,
26:38 all of the sudden is in question
26:40 and you are screaming out who do I talk to.
26:43 And we have taught people in ministry
26:45 to kind of just live in silence with that stuff,
26:49 and I know that that's not what you did.
26:52 So if you are at all looking at your own relationships
26:56 while they're talking is like good for you.
26:58 Good on you for that.
26:59 If you are, you know,
27:01 someone that is struggling,
27:03 just stay with us,
27:04 because this is actually an incredible ending.
27:08 And not even ending, because we're not done yet,
27:10 but this is just an incredible journey
27:12 so stay with us.
27:13 We'll be right back.