Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Aaron Bekkela
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000130B
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behaviour.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:15 You know, even when I tell that story
00:16 about Michel and the strip club owner
00:18 and my sister,
00:19 I could remember that moment of rage
00:22 and there's a part in me that says,
00:24 "Man, I'm glad it came up
00:25 because I didn't know it was there
00:27 and it allowed me to look at this guy and say,
00:30 you know what? I'm so sorry."
00:32 But it also allowed me to go to God and say,
00:34 "Man, I had no idea
00:36 that I had that much bitterness and anger
00:38 to a whole group of folks."
00:40 And repent of that
00:41 and God did some amazing healing.
00:43 It was absolutely amazing.
00:45 So if you get something that comes up,
00:46 don't get freaked out, just go to God.
00:48 But I wanted to say my next guest, Aaron,
00:52 and I can't ever pronounce your last name.
00:53 Bekkela. Bekkela.
00:56 And so I wanted... I love you.
00:58 But did Michael ever tell you that story?
01:00 He did. What did he say?
01:02 What was his perspective?
01:03 He... I think, probably similar to yours.
01:06 Just awkward, uncomfortable.
01:09 I think more than anything, he focused on the end result
01:13 and that it worked out really well.
01:15 I think it was his belief.
01:17 It was amazing to me at one point,
01:20 when he stopped and said,
01:23 "You know, I don't know
01:24 if any of the club owners said to you.
01:26 Please forgive me."
01:28 So I am on behalf of anyone that hurt you,
01:32 please forgive us.
01:33 And then that, you know, for God Himself
01:36 to help me to realize
01:38 that I needed to let go of that anger.
01:41 And it was just so powerful.
01:43 It was the entire studio,
01:44 you could see the healing in the entire studio
01:48 and him and I are friends to this day.
01:51 He went back and got his degree as a pastor
01:54 and is now working out there.
01:56 So I want...
01:57 Your story is a little bit different than his.
01:59 So tell us.
02:00 First of all, where did you come from?
02:03 What was your life like, growing up?
02:06 You know, growing up, it was...
02:08 For me I thought it was normal.
02:10 I grew up in a house, my mom was there all the time,
02:14 my dad was there sporadically.
02:16 But we had a house, I had shoes,
02:19 I had friends at school, what have you...
02:22 It wasn't until my adolescence when I realized,
02:25 maybe this isn't so normal.
02:28 At once I realized what dad was doing
02:29 and what the business was.
02:31 So talk about the business
02:33 'cause your family was very successful, owned...?
02:37 I don't even know how many.
02:38 I couldn't even tell you how many
02:40 because it would grow from one to the next,
02:41 someone gets old and such.
02:43 So, I mean, it just kind of evolved
02:45 or from one to the next.
02:48 So, you never numbered the strip clubs.
02:50 The business, family business
02:52 was dancers, bars, that kind of thing.
02:54 Right. He hadn't tell I ever knew.
02:56 That was from the time I was a little kid
02:58 until I understood what they were,
02:59 going through school and such.
03:03 So yeah, that was all I ever knew.
03:05 I remember the first time that I ever got any inclination
03:10 of what was going on was,
03:11 I went to work with dad one day.
03:14 And what it was, was he had bought a club
03:16 and we were painting.
03:18 So when I went in there, I don't know if I was 10 or 12
03:22 or how old I was but I remember going in there
03:24 and just thinking, that smell.
03:27 Just that...
03:28 The booze or the cigarettes or the perfume or whatever.
03:33 Just like really thick smell.
03:36 And even in the midst of painting, I mean,
03:38 your paint fumes there and stuff like that
03:40 but, I mean, it was just this really strong smell
03:42 and so as I aged and as I went on,
03:45 it was things like that where I realized,
03:47 probably not everybody knows that smell.
03:50 Right. And so anyway, yeah...
03:54 But I love what you're saying
03:56 'cause you said, "You know what?
03:57 As first, family wise, this was normal.
03:59 When you walked in my home, you would see a normal family.
04:02 Mom, dad...
04:04 On the surface for sure. Okay.
04:06 On the surface.
04:08 As again as I got older,
04:10 you know, lot of it was coming to
04:12 understanding that dad's not home.
04:14 He's gonna come home maybe once or twice a week.
04:17 It was very difficult for my mom.
04:20 As things went along, I originally, I thought,
04:23 "Man, mom, why don't you just,
04:25 I mean, everybody gets a divorce.
04:26 Let's get a divorce or whatever, you know."
04:28 And my perception of my mother from my adolescence
04:31 to where I'm at now, now it's like,
04:33 "Oh, my. What an amazing person.
04:35 Adorable and stayed there for the rest of us, you know.
04:39 And then they did ultimately get a divorce
04:42 but it was just a real range of emotions
04:45 going like through the high school years
04:46 and stuff like that.
04:48 Did you ever feel shame? Absolutely.
04:50 Okay, 'cause for me growing up,
04:51 I had that sense of shame all the time.
04:53 When did that happen for you and what was it like?
04:55 I think as I gained an awareness
04:57 of what the business was and what was going on and,
05:01 you know, for my guy friends, unfortunately, in our culture,
05:04 it was pretty much cool.
05:07 But I remember that sense of embarrassment
05:11 when you would meet somebody
05:12 or sometimes very active in sports.
05:13 So, you know,
05:15 I would get exposed to a lot of people
05:16 and so, "What do your parents do?"
05:18 Um, what do my parents,
05:20 you know, and so I would just say,
05:22 "Oh, my dad owns a bar."
05:23 And hopefully they would leave it at that
05:25 and not dig any deeper.
05:27 And... but yeah, once I never realized
05:30 that there was guilt and shame, even then
05:32 but, oh, yeah, absolutely, for sure.
05:34 Always hiding.
05:36 So do you know at one point,
05:37 so you're successful in school in the sports.
05:41 The club and your academics kind of weren't mixing,
05:47 you were able to do both.
05:48 At one point, you started working in the clubs
05:51 and so what was that like?
05:53 You know, I worked with dad a little bit
05:56 and then there was also my brothers
05:57 as you mentioned Michael,
05:58 there was two other brothers as well.
06:00 So, I mean, it was just kind of tangled and everything
06:04 or pretty evident, they're outdoors
06:05 and did a lot of hunting and such,
06:07 so that was just part of the conversation,
06:10 you know, and main part of what we did.
06:12 So, I mean, it was...
06:13 Even if you weren't in the club
06:14 or actually working there,
06:16 there was still an awareness maybe,
06:18 would be the way to put it.
06:19 So as far as me actually starting to work,
06:23 I had decided to go a different road
06:25 and spend a short time as a police officer.
06:28 No way. And, yeah.
06:29 And it wasn't very long
06:31 but went through a few critical incidents
06:34 and I did find I performed well or whatever
06:37 but it really made me look as this is what I wanna do.
06:40 Well, then I have my father and my brothers sitting,
06:42 waiting the whole time like to essentially reel me in.
06:47 And what a lot of people don't understand
06:49 and though didn't understand that on any level,
06:52 when I found Christ either, is the money involved in clubs.
06:58 The money involved in drugs, the money involved in dance,
07:01 you know, and the sex trade industry
07:02 or in that kind of adult entertainment stuff
07:05 is off the chart.
07:07 It can be.
07:08 It comes and goes
07:10 but the overall average certainly is well above
07:12 what it should be for the job that's done,
07:14 that's for sure.
07:16 So, yeah, once I...
07:19 My brothers and my dad kinda stepped in,
07:20 "Hey, you wanna, you just come work with us
07:22 when I, you know, whatever."
07:23 And unfortunately, I made the choice
07:25 to go ahead and do that
07:26 and made the decision to transfer then,
07:28 so that would have been roughly...
07:31 Oh, mid twenties was when I...
07:33 So mid twenties.
07:34 And then if this is too personal,
07:36 you could just tell me but for that kind of exposure,
07:41 anything... I mean, did you get lost in anything,
07:44 sexual addictions, any that stuff
07:47 because, you know,
07:49 and so visually the things that you're seeing
07:51 is not typically what a teenager
07:55 or early twenties tends to see.
07:57 You know, I think I became pretty desensitized
08:00 to a lot of things.
08:01 I don't think I had any addiction issues,
08:03 any sexual addictions or any drugs.
08:08 I never really done any drugs or anything like that.
08:11 However, alcohol, was where I found,
08:14 would it be my giochi, would be my escape,
08:16 would be my...
08:18 And I wasn't so much with everybody else.
08:19 It was just by myself.
08:21 And that was something I carried with me
08:24 for the entire time I was there.
08:27 I could imagine
08:28 that you would be very fair in your job.
08:32 I think that when you came in
08:34 and now start working for the club,
08:36 you're the manager there now.
08:39 Just ran it like a business? Yeah, for sure.
08:42 You know, and again I think part of our culture,
08:44 that's part of it.
08:45 The perception is that of a, you know,
08:48 the city individual or this whatever, you know,
08:50 and that's not the way it is today.
08:52 Today it's, you know,
08:53 one of the biggest perpetrators
08:55 has his Masters degree in business, you know,
08:57 and, I mean, it's a suit and tie
08:59 or it's a regular guy, so to speak.
09:03 And yeah, I think, I fit that more pretty well.
09:05 I think I was very disarming to a lot of other people
09:07 that came in, you know,
09:09 and it's funny you mentioned that I had a...
09:11 I had a, over social media,
09:14 a message I came through
09:15 and it was one of the girls, saying,
09:17 "Why have I never apologized."
09:19 And so, of course, I sent it back, you know,
09:21 and I'd let her know through this whole process,
09:25 that's almost like the umbrella over all of it is,
09:28 "Yeah, I'm sorry."
09:29 Anyone's life that you effected and then it was negative,
09:31 I mean, you know, as you look back on everything
09:34 it becomes very clear.
09:35 So... It's a whole different thing.
09:37 But I love what you're saying, is that at one point,
09:40 people could say this is a city thing
09:42 and these are kind of really characters
09:44 that are kind of almost carnival workers
09:47 and druggists or whatever
09:50 but now they said, it is not true,
09:52 this is a business, ran like a business,
09:55 there is a lot of money in it.
09:57 And so, what you're saying is times have changed.
10:00 Even the girls that are seduced or drawn into the business
10:04 are drawn into different reasons
10:06 and they did maybe 30 years ago.
10:09 Oh, I think again not to keep beating in,
10:11 but our culture is changed, you know.
10:13 30 years ago, if you received
10:14 one of these lingerie magazines in that...
10:17 Male, people would have freaked out.
10:20 Well, now it is just like a, just going through the...
10:22 You know, I mean, it's common place.
10:24 So, yeah, I think they're very desensitized to it.
10:26 It's more accepted. So...
10:30 So you're working in the clubs.
10:34 At one point, you're questioning all that.
10:39 How did that come about?
10:41 Michael. Yeah.
10:42 Well, Michael would have been, maybe the symbolic point
10:46 but again my mother.
10:48 I think that whole time
10:50 she herself kind of transitioned
10:52 to a spiritual place when the problems were...
10:56 'Cause it reached a point while I was in high school,
10:59 where I would come home
11:00 and my mother would be crying or,
11:01 you know, and so that would be part of the...
11:03 She's like, I can't do this anymore.
11:04 Right, and I almost wondered if she was waiting
11:07 until I was out of high school, you know what I mean,
11:08 like what it was and maybe my dad for that matter too.
11:12 But it anyway...
11:14 She was always there,
11:15 always kinda had that nurturing nature to her.
11:18 Just a helping personality, you know.
11:21 So there was always that there but, yeah, Michael.
11:24 When we were up hunting and we're sitting there
11:28 and he is like, "So I got to ask you something.
11:29 I've never asked you do anything
11:31 but I'm asking you to do something."
11:32 And so at this point,
11:33 he's already going to school and everything
11:35 and so I'm sitting here thinking, "Oh, my..."
11:36 He's found Jesus. "What are you about to ask me?"
11:40 And so he just hands me a Bible and he says,
11:42 "Will you just read this book."
11:44 You know, and it was...
11:46 I always think back of Michael and I think,
11:48 "That was smart of you."
11:49 It's like, it's the number one selling book, it's ever,
11:51 you know, like kinda, trying to appeal to that,
11:54 the world beside of me
11:55 because that's kind of who I was.
11:57 "Okay, fine.
11:58 Michael, I'll read it," you know,
12:00 and I always joke with him.
12:01 I said, "Next time,
12:02 tell someone to start in the New Testament,
12:04 so that it's, maybe a little more relevant,
12:06 you're not getting stuck with the...
12:09 But he did anyway, he gave it to me
12:12 and I ultimately did read it.
12:14 You know, 'cause I can...
12:15 What's really interesting is I even think of,
12:17 I see your mom and your mom
12:19 looking at these beautiful boys and knowing that,
12:21 each one of her sons is going to be lost in an industry
12:26 that she can't even,
12:28 she can't even hold on to her husband
12:31 and now her sons are going there.
12:32 I could imagine that she panicked with that.
12:34 Oh, for sure.
12:36 And one of my sisters was also a waitress and bartender
12:38 for a while.
12:39 So, yeah, it was very difficult for her.
12:41 And so Michael comes out
12:42 and just some how he's got to reach you guys.
12:45 Yeah, and he just...
12:46 He was smart about it,
12:48 he just kinda periodically so, you know, did you read that,
12:51 you know, and so I did.
12:55 You did, just opened up the book.
12:56 Yeah. Page one, started reading.
12:58 And it took me a while
13:00 but I did read it and it was...
13:02 I think at first it was just the history was...
13:05 I found it interesting.
13:07 If nothing else,
13:08 it was an interesting reading that
13:09 and I kept reading and kept...
13:11 The different stories I thought were interesting.
13:13 But for sure once I got...
13:15 I just gotta say.
13:16 And I'm trying to, I'm trying to let this just kind of
13:18 play out like it happened in your life.
13:22 But I just, I can't imagine what have indeed
13:25 when you were sitting there with a Bible
13:27 finding that interesting,
13:29 I think the angels rejoice it.
13:31 I think God himself or going like, "Come on."
13:34 You know what I mean is this,
13:35 what an amazing place for this man to be,
13:39 is that I'm in the Word of God.
13:41 It's not really...
13:43 Feels like it's not effecting me much
13:44 but I'm liking the stories.
13:46 Oh, yeah.
13:48 And, you know, I think that's the important part
13:50 as the Word of God, you know,
13:51 everything I had learned to that point
13:53 or been taught or...
13:56 It was certainly a very taboo subject
13:58 in my house with my dad's history and such...
14:03 Yes, anything Christian was not welcome in our house.
14:07 So, and at this point in time
14:09 my dad is essentially dying with cancer.
14:13 So, yeah, I mean, it was...
14:15 The way everything played out,
14:17 you know, by the time I got to the gospels
14:19 and I was reading 'em,
14:21 I was pretty well hooked, you know,
14:22 and Stacy and I, we were transitioning, moving
14:28 and we received a flyer in the mail.
14:30 And it was one of the evangelistic series
14:33 or whatever.
14:34 I don't know if you know Hoyer.
14:36 Yes. Hoyer was doing it, gifted speaker.
14:38 Very cool man.
14:41 And so we talked about it... On prophecy.
14:42 Yes, and that was part...
14:45 When I was in the New Testament,
14:46 I'm reading about
14:48 and I'm trying to connect these dots
14:49 and having a hard time
14:50 and then being back in work and just,
14:54 I mean, it was just a really crazy time.
14:56 So but we get this flyer.
14:58 You know, I have just said because our whole season
15:01 is going through a book on Victory in Jesus
15:03 and how amazing grace is and Romans 2:4, when it says,
15:08 "Don't despise the kindness of God,
15:10 or the forbearance of God."
15:11 'Cause as He's literally taking you through the Bible
15:14 and you're working in a strip club.
15:17 He is saving your life and somebody,
15:19 if we go and like, God doesn't do that.
15:20 Oh, yes, He does.
15:22 You know, and you just have to say,
15:24 "God, how cool are you."
15:26 I mean, absolutely says,
15:27 "I'll be right where you're at."
15:29 Right, It gave me a whole new perspective.
15:31 Everything that I had been told or heard,
15:34 that's not at all what I'm reading.
15:36 You know, and so when that flyer came, I asked Stacy.
15:40 I said, "Well...
15:41 So, Stacy is your wife? Right.
15:43 Was a dancer in the club? Correct.
15:45 And what is she thinking,
15:48 even with you going through the Bible,
15:49 she must be going like, "What's up?
15:51 What are you doing?"
15:52 She had a time in her life, when she was younger
15:55 where that she would tell you,
15:56 were like her best years
15:58 when she was younger with a grandma
15:59 she was staying with
16:01 and they would go to Church and so for her,
16:04 she was really okay with it.
16:06 And so when we get that flyer, I asked her,
16:09 "So do you think we're gonna ignite
16:10 and then see it
16:12 or should we go or should we, you know,
16:13 'cause I really wanted to understand it better,
16:15 that was where I was at
16:16 and I wanted to connect those dots, you know.
16:19 Daniel in the Revelation and how does this all work and,
16:22 you know, so we ended up going.
16:24 And it was interesting.
16:28 I love what you said to me one time about
16:31 this part of your journey, is that walking in the church,
16:34 you were like trying to hide your face.
16:36 Oh, yeah.
16:37 Like, I don't want anyone to recognize me.
16:39 Well, yeah, and then I stopped and I thought,
16:41 I don't see on a regular basis
16:43 is gonna be in here and recognize me
16:45 but, yeah, for sure, I mean,
16:47 it's just like...
16:49 I just wanna understand and then I wanna leave,
16:51 you know, and so while we were in there,
16:54 is this tall pastor sees us and it is, you just like,
16:58 "Stop looking at me
16:59 'cause now you're gonna come talk to me, you know."
17:01 And so, yeah,
17:02 one of the pastors at the Church
17:04 that was putting on the series is Jim...
17:06 Jim Moon,
17:07 he is a really good friend of mine.
17:08 Yup, Jim Moon came over and from there
17:12 then I met the other pastor Roger,
17:14 and before I knew it...
17:16 So... Well, hold up.
17:17 'Cause I know what Jim asked you,
17:19 what did he ask you when he walked up to you.
17:20 Oh, the same thing.
17:22 It's just like when I was a kid.
17:23 So... Instead of, what do your parents do?
17:25 So what do you do for a living?
17:27 And I literally turned and said,
17:29 "Will you wanna sit down for a minute."
17:30 And so we sat down and chatted about it.
17:33 See, you didn't decide to hide from him.
17:37 No, no, I didn't, I just...
17:39 But a lot of it was how he approached me.
17:41 I mean, it wasn't this condescending,
17:43 you know, stiff necked like,
17:45 oh, well, thanks for coming, you know, not at all.
17:48 I have never seen him judge anyone.
17:49 No, no, he is...
17:51 He is perfect for that too, for me to meet, you know.
17:53 So in the church building,
17:55 going through a Revelation seminar,
17:57 finally being open with,
17:59 even your background and nobody ignited.
18:03 Nobody. No, no.
18:04 Do you know what I mean that it was all good.
18:06 Right, right, you know,
18:07 and then from there I met Roger,
18:08 who was also one of the pastor there
18:11 and before all was said and done,
18:16 the series ended and Hoyer
18:18 and I have stayed friends since then,
18:19 we've hunted together and such
18:22 but then he left and was going on, where...
18:25 I forget where he lived it the time.
18:27 He's a little bit, little bit everywhere
18:28 but then I met Roger and ended up,
18:32 starting doing Bible studies with Roger
18:34 while I was running the club.
18:35 Still running the club. Still running the club.
18:38 And the reason I wanna say that
18:39 'cause I think it's amazing to me is that the...
18:43 Man, I know people that seven, eight, ten years.
18:47 God walked with them in their journey
18:49 before they started letting go of
18:51 some of the darker stuff and God was so faithful.
18:54 And so to me, sometimes we wanna jump in and judge
18:57 but God says, do not.
18:59 You will hurt them, you know.
19:01 And that's not how any of them were,
19:03 all three of those men were perfect.
19:06 They met me where I was at every time
19:08 and there were times where it wasn't
19:10 such a nice place to meet me.
19:12 It was...
19:15 While I had my mind, then I...
19:17 Stacy and I talked about it, you know,
19:18 like what do you wanna do when you grow up.
19:20 Well, what do we wanna do with the rest of our life
19:22 because this is not what we wanna do.
19:25 So we literally just sat down
19:27 and decided, well, if we're gonna back to school
19:29 or what would we do and if...
19:30 You know, just like, kinda like, you know,
19:32 big piece of paper, what do we wanna do, you know.
19:35 And so I just... I decided that day...
19:37 Well, both of us decided
19:39 we want to go back to school.
19:41 And so I was gonna go back to school.
19:43 I applied for school and was accepted.
19:46 We needed to kind of sell the house on the hill
19:48 and scale things back.
19:50 Nice house. Yeah, it was a nice house.
19:53 But scaling things back anticipating this change
19:57 and then I wanted to be legally severed
19:59 from the bars and everything.
20:01 I didn't want to have anything to do with them anymore.
20:03 So applied for schools, accepted,
20:06 had the house for sale and was working
20:09 with one of the bigger sharks in the tank,
20:13 I don't know how else to put it
20:14 that owns clubs.
20:16 Just thinking about
20:17 buying your clubs out, buying it out.
20:18 Correct, correct.
20:20 And so everything was going great, you know,
20:22 had it on a path where...
20:24 This is what we're gonna do.
20:26 I just have to say
20:27 'cause I think I kind of met you before then
20:31 but I remember at one point,
20:32 sitting there and listening to you
20:34 and talking about people
20:35 buying and selling clubs and stuff.
20:37 And I remember looking at you and thinking,
20:39 "Wouldn't it be funny,
20:40 if God just flipped one of these
20:42 and one of the clubs become a church."
20:44 And I don't think that we ever,
20:45 it was just something that I thought,
20:46 "Wouldn't that be so like God."
20:49 But this guy is not gonna flip it,
20:52 he wants to actually keep this...
20:53 He's gonna write a check and it's done.
20:54 Yeah and a big check.
20:56 Yeah, for me at the time, that was perfect.
20:58 I can start school now and then just get the house, you know,
21:01 like that would be fine, you know.
21:04 And because part of it for me, much like with Michael,
21:07 I couldn't force my brothers.
21:09 I couldn't make them,
21:11 if this is what they choose to do,
21:12 that's what they choose to do.
21:15 So for me it was as much as I had,
21:17 the thought crossed my mind too but I can't,
21:20 I couldn't force that round pig in this world.
21:23 So yeah, everything was going good and right
21:26 up until the time when the guy that was gonna do,
21:28 decided he didn't want to do it anymore.
21:30 And so the deal, so to speak fell through
21:33 and I was accepted to school I believe in 2013
21:37 and I didn't go back and for a couple of years there
21:41 because it just threw everything in a tale spin.
21:45 And you are saying, "God, where are you?"
21:47 Very much so... Was quiet as...
21:50 You promised me. Right.
21:52 Well, for me and I don't know
21:54 how else to put it other than like,
21:56 that wasn't part of the deal.
21:58 I'm doing this and I'm that, now, you know,
22:00 I'm upholding my end of the deal,
22:02 where are you?
22:03 I'm walking away from everything.
22:04 Right. Where are you? Where are you in all this?
22:06 You know.
22:07 And I think, I kind of started
22:09 telling you about it.
22:10 I had a moment where
22:11 I'm not a very emotional person.
22:13 And I had woke up one morning
22:17 and I had just had it and I was...
22:19 I went and I sat down in the shower,
22:22 I turned the lights off and everything
22:23 and I was literally just breaking down.
22:27 And I was really letting God have it and just that.
22:31 I upheld my end of the deal, where are you?
22:32 And very colorfully letting Him know
22:35 that I wasn't impressed.
22:37 Right. And...
22:39 But as it continued, I remember
22:42 literally just throwing my hands out
22:43 and telling Him, you do it.
22:45 Little more colorfully than that
22:46 but literally those words, you do it.
22:48 So I got myself together and I got out of the shower
22:51 and I just went on with my morning
22:53 like I normally would and I went out,
22:54 I turned the computer on and there were three mails.
22:58 I don't remember what the other two were
23:01 but part of the conversation with God
23:04 was that I wanted Him to make it very obvious.
23:07 I mean, like...
23:08 The direction. Right.
23:09 Like what do you want me to do, where do you want me to go.
23:11 A big white board with bright letters,
23:13 so I don't get this wrong
23:14 'cause apparently I'm not doing this right.
23:16 And I found that was the problem.
23:19 I'm not doing this right. Absolutely.
23:21 And when I got out of the shower
23:23 and I told Him, you do it.
23:25 I came out, I...
23:26 Later, I gone on the computer,
23:27 I haven't talked to the college in like a year at that point.
23:30 And one of the three emails was from school.
23:33 Are you gonna come to school or not?
23:34 We can only hold your acceptance open so long.
23:37 And I remember just sitting back thinking,
23:39 "Well, it's not a white board and the bright letters
23:41 but it's black and white, I mean, it's...
23:43 It's pretty clear.
23:44 And what are the chances of that, you know,
23:46 because at that point of time I'm still acting like,
23:48 is this Steven,
23:49 I said, you know, what's going on here.
23:51 It's the hardest thing, Aaron, and I know that
23:52 like you're saying that, do the...
23:55 But the hardest thing is that we are not in control.
23:58 That we've tried to control it up
24:00 till this point and it got us exactly
24:01 where we're at and there's got to be a point
24:04 where we say to God, "Okay, I am done."
24:07 When so many says, "What is surrender look like?
24:09 What does it look like to finally say,
24:11 "The best of what I can do is not working.
24:14 You do it."
24:16 And then that was just too, you know,
24:18 and I think I started telling you
24:19 about my analogy
24:21 that I had in my head was that,
24:22 every morning I would walk out there
24:24 and God would be like
24:25 sitting at the table with a newspaper
24:26 and peer over and go, "Nope, not ready yet and keep going."
24:29 And I'm sitting here alone... He's not asking me a thing.
24:30 Wait a minute, I've done this and I've done, you know,
24:32 like all these things and it's not happening.
24:35 And after I read that email because that was it,
24:38 I wanted to go to school, we needed to get the house sold
24:41 and I needed to be legally separated from the business.
24:44 And so when I read that,
24:46 I remember sitting back and going,
24:47 "Well, that's one other thing, you know,
24:50 and me and all my boldness going, well,
24:52 we still have the house and we still have," you know.
24:54 So at that point in time
24:56 we had actually just listed the house again.
24:59 So we had people with...
25:01 This all occurred like say a Tuesday or Wednesday.
25:03 And you were at your new place and the other place was listed?
25:06 No, no, no.
25:08 We were still in our existing house
25:09 and so I have that email
25:12 and the shower on the same like Tuesday or Wednesday.
25:14 We listed the house, I believe it was on a Thursday
25:17 and people came to look at it Friday morning
25:20 and Saturday morning
25:21 and my realtor called me Saturday morning
25:23 and he said and I assumed you...
25:25 'Cause he still had to bring the fliers out
25:26 and stuff like that,
25:28 so I didn't think anything other.
25:29 We had listed it two summers previously
25:30 without a single offer.
25:32 So he calls me and says, "That's it, we're done."
25:35 A full price, just done.
25:38 And so now I'm really sitting there on road.
25:41 Okay, and so I called my brother
25:45 'cause, you know, being...
25:47 We weren't just in business together,
25:48 we were all friends, you know,
25:50 we still get along very well.
25:51 And so I called not Michael
25:52 but one of my other brothers, Rob,
25:54 and I told him, I'm like, you're not gonna leave this
25:56 because he knew the house had been listed
25:57 and hadn't sold
25:58 and he knew what I wanted to do and such,
26:00 so I told him and he was like,
26:02 "Oh, well, that's cool, you know."
26:04 He was like, "So what about the business, you know,
26:07 'cause you're serious about,
26:09 you wanna go back to school, you know."
26:12 Well, yeah.
26:13 I told people if I could reach their phone
26:14 and smack him in the back of the head
26:16 and be like, "What part?
26:17 Don't you think I'm serious about, you know."
26:19 And he says why I've been thinking about something.
26:22 And I said, "Well, what's that?"
26:23 And he's like, "Well, what if he own part of the building."
26:27 He says, "What if I give you the building
26:30 and I know that's not enough,
26:31 so I'll like make some payments to you or what,
26:33 you know, but you'll be legally severed, you'd be at,
26:36 you know."
26:37 And I told, I said, "Right it on a napkin."
26:39 So, I mean, in like 10 days, I went from...
26:43 Fine, you do it, which I think was the key.
26:46 I think that was same going, okay, sit down,
26:48 now we can talk.
26:49 And even 'cause...
26:51 I think we all go to that place of surrender
26:53 but it's not a surrender in words only,
26:55 it was a surrender to the core of who you are.
26:58 I am screaming, cursing, I am angry at God
27:02 and when I said, "You do it."
27:04 It was literally, you do it. And so...
27:06 There is some colorful language for sure.
27:08 And even when some one says, you know,
27:10 I've said that before, saying, you surrender
27:13 and actually surrendering is two different things.
27:15 And so when I think God says, you know what?
27:17 If you're serious
27:20 and you've given me control of your life,
27:22 I'll show you the plan that I have.
27:26 And He started keep doing every way.
27:27 So, I mean, there I am in like 10 days.
27:30 I'm going back to school, the house is sold
27:34 and now I'm legally out of the business.
27:36 Well, you know what? And you know this is true.
27:40 When you and I talked,
27:41 I as a ministry and I tried to raise funds...
27:44 Oh, yeah. We talked about it.
27:45 To buy that club 'cause I thought,
27:47 "Man, I wanna turn it into a Church,
27:49 a media center to help people
27:51 and I talked to everybody I could
27:53 and that was not God's plan but what happened?
27:56 What was the plan?
27:57 Well, and that was just it, you know, one of the,
28:00 maybe unique stories or sub stories
28:02 or whatever to this was
28:04 while I was still in the business.
28:06 I had a...
28:07 I don't remember her name,
28:09 I don't remember really what she looks like,
28:10 I remember she had dark hair and was probably around 20.
28:13 But the way the club was laid out,
28:15 up in the front was where there is an office
28:17 and many times when there is a shift change,
28:19 we would do the paper work up there
28:20 and often the girls would come and sit up there
28:22 and wait for the ride or what have, you know.
28:24 So while I was sitting up there and she told me.
28:29 She says, "Aaron, can I ask you something?"
28:31 And it's...
28:32 I felt like this trick question like,
28:34 "Okay, what do you wanna ask," you know, and she's like,
28:35 "Well, actually, I just need to tell you some...
28:37 I promised my mom and she said me
28:39 and some of the or she said her
28:42 and some of her lady friends at the Church
28:44 have been praying for you."
28:46 And so I'm sitting there, "Oh, my.
28:48 Don't ask me to go to Church,
28:49 like where is this headed,
28:51 you know, like what's going on here,
28:52 you know, and she is like,
28:53 "No, I just promised her I would tell you that,
28:55 so I told you that."
28:56 And I said, "Tell your mom thank you."
28:58 I knew it was nice gesture or whatever
29:00 but at that point in my life it was like,
29:02 okay, yeah, that's great.
29:03 Will see you tomorrow morning.
29:04 Yeah, didn't mean anything to you.
29:06 Right, or so I thought.
29:07 You know, and then I remembered years later
29:09 and 'cause she mentioned the church by name
29:12 and so after, you and I have talked about that
29:15 and some of those different things,
29:17 it's a huge Church in the area
29:18 like a congregation of like 10,000 or 12,000
29:22 or something, I mean, it's a big church.
29:24 And so I went and I thought, Well,
29:26 I'll go talk to that pastor and let him know,
29:28 you know, hey, wanna your prayer groups
29:30 or what, you know,
29:32 just I don't know and so yeah,
29:34 one conversation led to the other or whatever
29:37 and after I approached him about it,
29:39 we started just kind of fishing around with it.
29:42 What unbeknownst to me at that point in time.
29:46 One of, like he's number two pastor there,
29:49 I'm not sure there's structure or whatever
29:50 but the lead pastor was Derin, I talked with him,
29:55 what unbeknownst to me
29:57 Rob and one of the other pastors, Mark,
30:00 were like this close to come or approaching us there
30:03 at the club to see if they could...
30:05 They wouldn't bother business
30:06 but they just wanted to come and pray in the parking lot.
30:10 And so when I went there and I talked to him
30:12 and then as things went on and progressed or whatever,
30:15 one step kind of led to the other
30:17 and before we knew,
30:19 we were kind of formulating a plan like
30:21 how could we do this,
30:22 you know, I, of course, had my grand scheme and idea
30:25 but, you know,
30:26 the long and short of it was it happened.
30:29 I love the fact 'cause you brought some pictures
30:31 of the whole transition from this Church,
30:35 or this club, strip club,
30:37 been in this area for how many years?
30:39 Since '89.
30:41 Since 1989, is now transitioning...
30:45 Transitioned. Into a House of God.
30:47 It's up and running.
30:49 I got to go a few weeks ago
30:51 and just stand in the lobby and just think,
30:55 "Man, God, how amazing are you."
30:59 So in the very neighborhood
31:00 where people would drive by
31:02 and know that this was destroying lives.
31:06 Now in that same neighborhood, it's changing lives.
31:10 For sure. And that's a lot of it too.
31:12 I mean, Rob's vision of it was,
31:16 he had gone to a different church
31:17 away from his church and that was just his...
31:20 He just...
31:21 He wanted to reach the ones
31:24 that nobody else wanted so to speak.
31:26 He wanted the most broken, the most...
31:29 That's where he was at, you know, and if you go there,
31:32 I don't know if you were there
31:33 while there were having a service,
31:35 I mean, he'll be up there in a Harley shirt
31:36 or a Bronker shirt
31:38 or I mean, he has the epidemy of greeting someone
31:40 where they are at.
31:42 Amen. And yeah, and was just...
31:44 I would like to wait for questions
31:46 because after we get a few questions,
31:49 I know that Stacy, your wife is here,
31:51 there is a friend of mine here
31:52 that has struggled with his own addictions,
31:55 I want to see if they have any questions for you
31:57 but then I wanna come back and say,
32:00 'cause now you are an incredible man of God.
32:04 Raising the family, you did go to school.
32:07 So I wanna kinda cap all of that off
32:09 'cause it is an amazing miracle.
32:12 So I wanna open up and I know that, first of all,
32:16 I'd like to talk with you Donald
32:18 because I know that your struggle
32:20 has been in the area that he's talking about,
32:23 so do you have any comment or question for Aaron.
32:27 Aaron, I just wanna say,
32:28 praise God for what you came over,
32:29 I used to be one of those, I mean,
32:31 I would sit in the seat and watch the dancers
32:33 and I'd actually participate in those clubs
32:35 and how God brought me almost,
32:37 nearly destroyed me and my sorrows going
32:39 and God showed me where I was heading.
32:41 And I thought, if we kept on that path,
32:42 I would have definitely ended up some where horrible.
32:45 I knew I would end up in jail.
32:46 I could have been up there and this is was just bad so,
32:49 I really wanna say, I'm proud of what you did,
32:52 that takes a huge step to
32:53 and a commitment to listen to God, trust Him
32:56 and know He's gonna provide for whatever you need
32:58 and get you out of the mess so, praise God for that.
33:00 Thank you Donald and Aaron.
33:02 Both Donald and his wife were really lost in addiction.
33:06 And their whole transition
33:08 coming out of those sexual addictions
33:10 and all of that stuff.
33:12 To me it was amazing
33:13 when they decided to burn all their toys,
33:15 burn all the pornography and let God have control.
33:18 So, you know, what do you...
33:21 Do you have anything to say to him as some of the...
33:23 As a guy sitting in the seat.
33:25 You know, I do.
33:27 And I appreciate your words
33:28 but I think
33:31 it's easy to focus on the women in a business
33:34 and justifiably so,
33:35 I certainly don't mean anything other than that.
33:37 But I think in that gets lost, the men that are in it
33:41 and to the path that goes down too,
33:46 it's just as bad, it's just as awful,
33:47 it's just as degrading...
33:50 The families that were destroyed.
33:51 Absolutely, you know, pay rent or for a kids birthday
33:56 or go the club or, you know,
33:59 I could tell you a story about one man
34:00 in particular that...
34:02 The day I met him was doing really exceedingly well
34:07 and the last I heard about him was,
34:09 you know, where you were headed.
34:11 He did go to prison
34:13 and we're talking about a family man
34:14 that literally blew everything
34:19 he had in and around the clubs
34:21 and stemming from the clubs or whatever, you know,
34:24 and it doesn't mean that happens to everybody.
34:26 But it happens. But it happens.
34:28 And it's so...
34:30 I'm happy that a male would ask a question
34:33 because it's a big part of it to you for sure.
34:36 I know, there is a part of man.
34:39 I'm sure a part of you,
34:41 there's sometimes just wants to scream out
34:43 to anybody, I'm so sorry.
34:45 Oh, absolutely.
34:46 And that sense of, I'm so sorry for the injury that I've caused
34:51 and literally knowing that you have to surrender
34:53 that to God
34:54 because Jesus is the only one that can pay that price.
34:56 You can't pay it. All I can do is change my life.
34:59 Well, even coming here, you know,
35:01 going back through the pictures or whatever,
35:03 I'm years removed now
35:06 and it was like putting on like a coat
35:10 of guilt and shame again.
35:11 Just kind of walking through it,
35:13 I'm okay with it now in that sense
35:15 where I have a much better grasp on it now.
35:18 But yeah, you know,
35:19 and then you hear something like that for sure,
35:21 you know, you just...
35:22 Anyone's life for you effected poorly,
35:24 yeah, I'm sorry.
35:26 But let's make steps to make sure
35:28 it doesn't happen again.
35:31 And even for, you know,
35:33 in the Bible when there is a place where,
35:36 you know, Christ himself says,
35:37 "Can I change out your filthy garments
35:39 and give you a robe of righteousness,"
35:41 that we literally are covered in this
35:43 robe of righteousness
35:45 and this is from all of our past
35:47 from anything that has followed us
35:49 from generational stuff.
35:51 And so, I'm so proud that you're here and Donald,
35:54 thank you so much for that comment.
35:56 And Stacy, you know, that I love you.
35:58 So Stacy, you're Aaron's wife, do you have anything
36:03 that you wanna add to what he said
36:04 or any comments for Aaron?
36:08 Possibly just make a comment and say couldn't be more proud.
36:11 I was always so very proud but,
36:13 I mean, I...
36:15 Just when I feel like
36:16 I couldn't be more proud of the husband
36:18 that I have, I am every day.
36:21 So because of who he is and where he's come.
36:24 How he responds to God. Yes.
36:27 How he responds to you as you're...
36:30 He was always good to me but, I mean,
36:32 this is just above and beyond.
36:35 You know, when you say that, Stacy, most people would think,
36:38 "Oh, in that business,
36:39 he probably was abusive and horrible
36:42 and this life is probably good but you're saying
36:44 he was always a good guy.
36:45 Always up lifting, always a good father.
36:49 But I think, you know,
36:52 you can't run a business like that
36:55 and raise a family.
36:57 The two don't go together, so, you know,
37:00 getting out of that
37:03 and then doing something that you can,
37:05 when some may ask you, "What do you do for a living?"
37:07 Or I was asked that question all the time.
37:11 That was an uncomfortable spot to be put in, to have to say,
37:15 "Well, you know," or a dance around that kind of thing
37:19 and just not answer it straight forward
37:22 but now I can answer that question.
37:25 You know. Amen.
37:26 You know, I love you. I love you too, Cheri.
37:28 You know, I love you like a sister.
37:31 I feel the same way about you.
37:33 That is cool, so now you've got people around you
37:37 including your wife.
37:38 This is I'm so proud of who you are.
37:41 And so, you know, I know that when you saw that email
37:44 and you're talking about a, you know,
37:47 this is from a Christian college
37:50 and you were going to take what?
37:52 I got into counseling.
37:54 I got my Masters in counseling and went through that program
37:57 which was really good too.
37:58 You know, what that that cracks me up,
38:00 it cracks me up 'cause any club owner
38:02 that I ever worked for, from 13 years old on,
38:05 they are good counselors.
38:08 'Cause we come in all stoned and high and full of drama.
38:12 You have to talk astounding
38:14 and get us to work.
38:15 So you've been counseling your whole life.
38:16 One of the questions on, when the application was,
38:20 has anybody ever told you, you should be.
38:23 And it was like, "Do I have to tell you
38:25 who told me how it should be be."
38:27 But yeah,
38:29 you deal with a lot of things, I mean it.
38:32 You see a lot of 'em
38:34 not so good aspects in life for sure.
38:37 And I love how God does this with us
38:41 but when you start to step into the education
38:45 and a different job and counseling
38:47 and having a different kind of hope for the future.
38:51 What was that relationship like with you and God?
38:53 What did that feel like? It was good.
38:56 It was just really liberating to finally be doing...
39:01 One of the other questions on that was, you know,
39:03 why do you wanna do this?
39:05 And for me it was a simple answer
39:07 because I wanna become the tool I was supposed to be.
39:10 And I wasn't really sure what that looked like
39:12 at the time.
39:13 I wasn't sure,
39:15 I can't remember if it was Jim or Hayor,
39:18 maybe even Roger, one of 'em like
39:20 have we ever thought about and like no.
39:22 I am not a pastor sort of thing, you know.
39:24 And but I thought, yeah, but I do wanna help people.
39:29 I do wanna... I wanna make a difference.
39:31 I wanna do something more, you know,
39:33 Stacy mentioned it
39:34 would being a family man and I appreciate what she said
39:37 but I did my best
39:39 but at it's best it wasn't good.
39:42 When my daughter had her career day at school,
39:46 that was pretty telling me.
39:49 And it was one of those real wake up calls of like,
39:52 wow, if you...
39:54 This is wanting you,
39:55 "Dad, come and tell 'em what you're doing.
39:56 Come and present that career day."
39:59 And, you know, as I sit here and say about it,
40:01 I think about, yeah, and that's her...
40:02 That awareness was setting in for her too.
40:05 Just like it did for me
40:07 and now she doesn't have to grow up with that,
40:09 she doesn't have to...
40:10 She doesn't have to be part of that,
40:12 you know, for her just therapist,
40:15 or, you know whatever, I mean, it can just be...
40:17 Even now it's just like, man, whatever.
40:19 For me that's huge. That's huge.
40:22 You ended up getting the degree in counseling,
40:24 became a therapist.
40:27 And so everything
40:34 in your family's changed,
40:36 everything in your life is changed
40:38 and what's really fun for me
40:40 is your family has always loved you.
40:44 So they are proud of you watching you stand up,
40:47 the club is flipped
40:49 and is now a Church, the community,
40:52 everything is changed
40:53 and so again what does that look like,
40:56 what does that feel like,
40:58 what kind of things are you getting at work?
41:01 Do you have anything that you say, you know,
41:03 what God gave me this scripture or thus,
41:05 this thing that really kinda solidified it for me.
41:09 You know, it's good.
41:11 But one of the things in reading the Bible
41:14 for the first time 3 as a 36 or 37 year old.
41:18 I tried to meet people
41:20 where they're at to the Nth degree.
41:23 I don't bring it up, I don't know anything.
41:24 But if they do
41:26 and there is ways you can bring it up.
41:27 I can't say that I don't bring it up 'cause I do
41:30 but there is...
41:33 What I learned from it was just that.
41:36 Especially in this culture,
41:38 you know, when I was growing up,
41:39 being the rebel didn't mean going to church
41:43 but in this teenage that's kind of what it is.
41:45 I mean, it's a really sensitive subject, you know,
41:47 so but it's for generally speaking,
41:49 yeah, it's been good.
41:50 It's certainly a much more
41:52 positive healing sort of approach...
41:55 So what I'm hearing you saying
41:57 is that God for you demystified the Bible
42:00 and made it very real
42:01 and when you actually share that with someone,
42:04 it's not that you share a scripture
42:06 but you share principles of God
42:08 that can make it real not offensive
42:10 and meet some where they're at.
42:12 And so that's part of your counseling.
42:13 Absolutely. I don't want...
42:15 I feel like people will ask me, "So, you're a Christian."
42:17 And I have a really hard time saying, "Yes, I'm a Christian."
42:21 Because I feel like in our culture
42:22 that's like saying,
42:23 "So you're favorite color is blue."
42:25 And to me it's like that's a big deal,
42:28 to just to say it boldly,
42:30 "Yeah, I'm a Christian."
42:31 Well, what I would say is I aspire to be,
42:33 I'll find out one day if I am.
42:37 And so for me, I guess I take more of a laid back approach,
42:40 you know, I think it's been kind of effective though.
42:43 I think there's people that I'm able to talk to
42:46 because of it,
42:47 that maybe wouldn't be as open with others
42:50 or maybe not as open with them right away, you know.
42:52 So then do you have an example?
42:54 Can you think of something,
42:58 so at time when you saw that play out.
43:03 For sure.
43:04 I think a good example would be, you know,
43:07 of an indirect consequence if you will.
43:11 Well, I was going through...
43:13 Michael had,
43:14 Michel was out and already doing his thing.
43:16 I was in that process of and while that happened,
43:22 my other middle brother Paul started having like...
43:27 He didn't know how to explain it
43:28 but he would go telling to one of the other clubs
43:31 and he's like, "Aaron, I can't do it anymore.
43:34 I get there and it's all but a panic attack.
43:36 It's like, the best I can do is go and sit in the office...
43:39 He can't even hardly breathe. He couldn't do it.
43:40 He could not do it anymore.
43:43 He and his wife went out to visit her family,
43:46 pretty sure they already lived in Nevada at that point
43:49 and this is a really short summary
43:53 and you have to understand
43:54 we're talking about a man who'd been in the business
43:56 for the better part of 30 years.
43:58 And a very handy guy, I mean, I...
44:00 Never did I worry about him after he got out of the club
44:03 but that's a really challenging thing to do
44:06 something like that for that long, I mean,
44:08 for me I was getting a degree and I was hopefully get a job,
44:10 you know, for him here's where I want to back.
44:14 Well, he went out to Nevada
44:16 and put an offer in on a house while he was out there.
44:19 And I don't remember if it was like
44:20 right before he left or when he got back or whatever
44:23 but he found that it was accepted.
44:25 So now in about a 10 day period for him too,
44:28 he went from helping run a club to
44:31 I'm not only quitting my job, I'm leaving the State.
44:35 And so at the time when that was happening,
44:39 him and I were in communication and of course,
44:41 I just encouraged him
44:42 and he said something to me that,
44:44 it even kinda chokes me upright,
44:45 earlier when I thought about it.
44:47 He says, "You know what, Aaron.
44:48 He looked up the town that he was moving to.
44:51 He said I looked online,
44:52 there is 27 jobs there and I need one of 'em."
44:56 And I was just like, oh, my, you know,
44:57 'cause he has a little boy
44:58 and he wanted to make sure that he...
45:00 You were like, "Friend, go."
45:01 Yeah, but, I mean, just for him to...
45:03 I was like, "Oh, that's so awesome."
45:04 So that left my one brother Rob left in the business
45:07 and so I think the ripple effect
45:10 if you will or if there is, I mean,
45:13 I was only the tool that I wanted to be in it.
45:16 But I felt like God was able to shine through with all that
45:19 and now today my other brother
45:21 through the midst of all of it
45:23 and it's kind of an interesting part
45:24 why I still had part of the building.
45:27 And that's how I was able to go to that church
45:29 and talk with Derry
45:31 and everything started going, you know,
45:32 because had I just got off a bit,
45:34 that would have never happened either.
45:36 And so when in the midst of all of that,
45:39 my other brother finds out he has throat cancer.
45:42 And is starting to have some of these thoughts about
45:44 what do I...
45:45 And I said, "Roby," 'cause he's like, "What I do,
45:48 if I get out of the business, what am I gonna do."
45:49 This is all I know. Right.
45:50 And I looked at him and I said, "Roby, what do you wanna do?"
45:55 For the first time, you know, what do you wanna do?
45:58 Now what does dad want us... What do you wanna do?
46:01 You know. And he was like, "Why?
46:03 Would like to get out," you know,
46:04 and so that's one is like...
46:06 So what do you think if, you know,
46:07 and then it kinda started going in the direction
46:10 it ultimately ended up in but so, yeah.
46:12 Right now, today none of us are in the business anymore.
46:15 You know, when...
46:16 And I think that,
46:18 we really don't think that when God steps into a family
46:22 or when God steps into our life
46:23 and somebody decide to fight for the survival,
46:27 for the recovery,
46:29 we don't think what's gonna happen
46:30 to everybody around us.
46:32 And it's not ours to think,
46:33 I think it would be overwhelming
46:35 but God does says, "I promise you.
46:37 You start this battle and everything will change."
46:42 And your family, I love...
46:44 Even hearing it 'cause I know that everybody really change
46:48 or some in your family that are still in the business?
46:52 No. No.
46:53 Nieces, nephews...
46:55 Nobody is in the business anymore.
46:56 How crazy...
46:58 That doesn't mean that it can't happen in this culture
46:59 or whatever, I mean,
47:01 you're saying nieces and stuff like that,
47:02 I mean, it's...
47:06 At least they have an example other wise.
47:09 Absolutely, we're gonna take a break
47:11 but I want you to come back
47:12 because I wanted you to talk about kind of
47:15 that's everybody wants to have somebody they can blame
47:18 and somebody that's in the sentence,
47:19 somebody that's making in and somebody that's not.
47:22 God doesn't even look at it that way.
47:24 Never has, never will.
47:25 So we're gonna be right back.
47:27 Stay with us, Celebrating Life in Recovery.