Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Wayne Blakely
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000119B
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:17 Welcome back. 00:18 You know, I want to introduce you 00:20 to a friend of mine, Wayne Blakely. 00:22 He has a ministry called 'Coming Out' Ministries. 00:24 And Wayne, we've had you on the program before. 00:27 I don't know if I ever talked about 00:30 just the journey over the years 00:32 and all of the sudden your whole perspective 00:33 becomes different on what you've gone through, 00:36 what you want to say 00:38 and how you're gonna step out in ministry. 00:40 And so I want you to take us back to the beginning. 00:42 You shared it before so we're not going to cover it too much 00:45 but then what is your journey look like 00:46 and can you relate to anything that I just talked about? 00:49 Absolutely. 00:51 You know I have to touch first a little bit on that brokenness 00:54 and the different things that you are receiving from both, 00:57 your mother and from your father 00:59 and your experiences and your childhood 01:02 have a lot to do with how my beginning was. 01:04 And that was basically the people 01:07 that were around my natural mother 01:08 during her pregnancy over heard her 01:11 or they would ask her you know, 01:13 you are gonna have a boy or you're going to have a girl 01:15 and she's like, absolutely having a girl, 01:17 there's no way I am having a boy. 01:19 And she said that over and over and over again. 01:22 She was very adamant about it. 01:24 And so when she had me, 01:26 imagine, you know she was disappointed, 01:28 she was grief stricken, 01:30 there was no bonding and so in that 01:35 she still wanted me to be a girl. 01:37 And we were on an air force base 01:39 and so my father was gone most of the time on assignments 01:43 and he would come home and the neighbors would say, 01:47 we think that your son's being abused 01:48 and he will be like, well, mind your business. 01:50 I think you are just being nosey neighbors. 01:52 And what they found was he came home one time 01:57 from an assignment and found my arm in a sling 02:00 before I was two years old 02:02 and come to find out 02:03 my mother had broken my arm in two places. 02:06 So when, you know, 02:07 when you talk about your background sometimes 02:10 and I think that what people say 02:11 is just her disappointment of having a boy 02:13 but she was enraged by having a boy. 02:15 Literally violent, taking it out on you. 02:18 I don't want to touch this kid, feed this kid or whatever. 02:21 And people were trying to protect you 02:23 but you and her were the only ones in the home. 02:25 Right. Right. 02:27 And so it really to mind for a lot of people 02:30 right away that question, oh, can you be born gay? 02:33 And I am telling you, absolute, because of the set up. 02:38 You look at the pre-natal experience that-- 02:40 First of all, are you gay? 02:43 I am sorry. I am like, really, is that-- 02:45 We have to finish the interview, Cheri. 02:46 I'm sorry. Let's do it. 02:49 No, I am kidding. But not anymore. 02:50 Yeah. 02:51 What so-- what's really interesting 02:53 is that even with that kind of things 02:56 that you were saying that I think because of her anger, 03:00 her rejection, all of that stuff 03:02 is that from day one I defiantly wanted a girl. 03:06 Yeah. 03:07 I was set up and then, you know, just most recently, 03:11 and I even talked to you little bit about 03:13 it was the absentee father. 03:15 So I have the abuse by the mother 03:18 who is not making me want to go, 03:20 move towards a woman for affection 03:23 and then I have an absentee father 03:25 who's never there, he's never on the base, 03:27 so it's almost like being a single parent. 03:29 But the only thing I can began to identify 03:31 some kind of safety with this maybe perhaps a male, 03:34 when I come in contact with a male 03:36 I knew very young that I was attracted to men 03:40 probably because of the abuse coming from my mother. 03:43 I so didn't want to be around women, 03:45 they were not safe? 03:46 Right, right. 03:49 So in my earliest years 03:52 I began to find myself drawn to men 03:55 and wanting to be affirmed 03:56 and I wanted warmth and I wanted love. 03:59 I come to find out here 04:01 when we are born there's three things that we all want. 04:05 We want to be loved, 04:06 and we want to belong, and we want to matter. 04:10 And I didn't feel like-- 04:11 Any of those. Any of those. 04:14 And you know, like I just cringe 04:17 because I know some people watching the program 04:19 are gonna say, I don't want to deal with gay issues. 04:22 This is not primarily a gay issue. 04:24 This is a child that just never got to be safe. 04:27 It's a love issue. 04:28 And you know, like I-- because you are my friend 04:31 I've heard you talk about even your dad, 04:32 you were very protecting of him, 04:34 you really having dealt a lot with that issue 04:38 yet about him being gone and you know, 04:40 just like even saying that you know, 04:43 you never had the chance of laying on somebody's chest 04:46 and just being held even as an infant. 04:48 I sort of saw him I guess as I look at back at her 04:51 and trying to digest it all now about dealing with them-- 04:55 I dealt with the female aspect of it. 04:57 Now the male aspect, in some ways 05:00 I saw him as my savior 05:02 because he saw the abuse that was taking place 05:04 and put me up for adoption by my aunt and my uncle. 05:08 But it masked the fact 05:11 that I really needed to have connected to him. 05:13 Exactly. 05:14 And had not and did not even after the adoption? 05:16 Right. Yeah, to some degree. 05:18 I saw him every couple of summers or something 05:21 but he was very withdrawn, 05:23 very quiet, it wasn't-- I might as well be-- 05:26 he might as well have been an uncle and not my father. 05:28 Right. 05:30 So you then jump out into a lifestyle, 05:35 not only a lifestyle because you did get pretty twisted. 05:38 I did. 05:40 And so you know, we talked about that, 05:42 jumped into prostitution, did all kind of stuffs and-- 05:46 but this how can I want to say on, you find Christ. 05:50 So bring us to that point and then the ministry 05:52 and what is your passion today? 05:54 We're talking about integrity, we're talking about change, 05:56 we're talking about a maintaining. 05:58 How do you maintain your-- 06:01 not sobriety but your absent your lifestyle? 06:04 Yeah. 06:05 Well, when I finally came back in touch with God 06:10 or when I really got in touch with God for the first time 06:15 He brought a lot of things to my mind. 06:19 You know, I was sitting in my bedroom 06:22 in front of my computer 06:24 and I was contemplating the fact 06:25 that all of my gay friends were dead now, 06:27 every last one of them. 06:28 And God said to me, so can you hear Me now? 06:32 And He also began to reveal a lot of things to me 06:34 and He says, you know what Wayne, 06:36 you've put a lot on Me. 06:38 You blamed Me for your hurt, you blamed Me for your pain, 06:42 you blamed Me for the dysfunction in your life 06:46 that you turned out this way. 06:48 You've laid all that on Me but really do you know Me? 06:53 Because you haven't really come to My love letter to you. 06:57 You haven't immersed yourself in the Word of God 07:01 and you haven't spend time with Me in prayer 07:04 and maybe you've been praying for the wrong things like, 07:07 I want to give you all the best for your life 07:10 because you're best interest are in My heart 07:12 but your prayer was, please, God, make me straight. 07:16 And Wayne, it wasn't about making you straight, 07:19 it was about building an intimate relationship 07:22 with Me as your father. 07:23 And loving you. And loving you. 07:26 And then realizing that it is possible 07:28 that at some point in your walk with Me 07:30 I might put in front of you 07:32 the one woman, the one woman. 07:34 I am not asking you to fall in love 07:35 with the entire female population 07:38 but in your walk with Me as you begin to trust Me 07:41 and know Me that I only want the best for you, 07:43 I have gifts lined up for you along the way. 07:45 Amen. 07:46 And so I invited Him in 07:48 and I said, I don't know how you can take me 07:51 knowing where I've been and I've been in the gutter, 07:56 you know, I've done every drug that I knew about. 08:00 I had slept with every man 08:02 that was willing to sleep with me 08:05 and looking for love in all the wrong places. 08:12 Even if I had landed on one man 08:15 as monogamous relationship 08:16 and been happy in that 08:18 it still wouldn't have been what God's plan for me was. 08:21 So the enemy doesn't care how he can you know, 08:24 get the deception across as long as he can get us across. 08:27 And so in coming back to Christ 08:28 I had to begin to recognize slowly 08:32 but surely what God's plan for me is, 08:34 what is that walk like today? 08:36 And I came back into a spiritual environment, 08:40 a Christian environment in a great state of adversity 08:46 you know, because the church leaders, 08:49 the congregational members 08:51 they had all these expectations of me that I had, 08:53 had on me before I walked away from the church. 08:57 In what sense, because you know, 08:58 I am gonna assume I know what you are talking about 09:00 but I don't want to assume in your sense. 09:01 Like when I am baptized and I go under the water gay, 09:04 that I come up straight. 09:06 That I immediately have an erotic desire for women. 09:10 That I am going to marry, 09:11 that that's gonna make me acceptable to Jesus Christ 09:13 that threw something like reparative therapy. 09:16 If they can make me feel the things 09:18 that I felt towards a man 09:19 and fell it towards a woman that, that will fix me. 09:23 Or what if it did? 09:25 And I started chasing all the women that I can find. 09:27 And sleeping with all of them? 09:28 Sure. So, now let's not think of me. 09:29 Because we-- and I love, 09:31 I love that what you are saying 09:32 because we're talking about integrity 09:33 and we're talking about who we are, 09:35 and we get lost in the issue, 09:36 whatever the hot button issue is. 09:38 What God is saying, you know what, 09:40 it is bigger than any issue 09:41 is that I've got this kid that has been rejected 09:45 even in the womb pretty much 09:47 and defiantly all his life was then adopted 09:50 then in the lifestyle that just beat him up 09:53 and he beat others up and then all the sudden 09:56 now I am trying to literally show who I am, who he is, 10:00 and we're trying to make it about an issue. 10:02 And God is just like, man. 10:04 Yeah, you know, I sometimes I am accused 10:07 of not being an advocate for gays 10:09 and I am thinking you know, 10:11 I am one of the biggest advocate for gays 10:13 that I know and that I want to help them come back 10:17 and give God another chance. 10:19 That they got alienated, they got ostracized, 10:23 they got shut out by people who were ignorant. 10:25 And in their ignorant did some terrible, terrible things. 10:29 I was victim of some of those things. 10:31 So example, not that we need examples, 10:34 I am not trying to beat anybody up 10:35 but what's an example of what happened 10:38 because God has worked on you for a long time, 10:40 coming into a spiritual environment 10:42 or to a healthier environment 10:44 and somebody says or does what? 10:48 They say something-- 10:50 well, one of the first things that were said to me was that, 10:52 I don't know that your testimonies will be good 10:55 until three to ten years from now. 10:57 And that really hurt me 11:00 when I was coming back to Christ 11:02 because from what I previously known about God 11:04 because I had Christian parents that adopted me 11:08 and the studies that I had done as a kid was that I-- 11:12 from what I found in God's word 11:14 is my testimony was as good as the day 11:16 as I accepted Jesus Christ which would have been the same 11:19 for like Mary Magdalene. 11:21 But because of your background 11:23 is they want to make sure you don't fall, 11:24 you don't get tempted, you don't do anything 11:26 before you could say anything. 11:27 They don't require that from me 11:29 but they're gonna require that from you. 11:30 And I get the-- 11:31 Because when he says, have you ever been tempted, 11:33 your response is what? 11:36 It's one of the favorite questions 11:38 that I like in our Q and A today. 11:41 I am asked that question quite frequently 11:44 and I guess I've learned almost enjoying 11:47 my response and that is, are you? 11:49 Are you tempted? 11:50 Because why would God take my temptations away 11:53 and not take your's away? 11:56 And how can you judge me so harshly, 11:58 I am just trying to stand? Yeah. 12:00 I think that because we put this issue, 12:03 this thing that we refuse to talk about in Christianity 12:07 for so many years, 12:08 the thing that you don't talk about get's the crown. 12:12 And so it became, you know, the focus of like, 12:16 how could you possibly? 12:18 Where as when you're doing 12:19 something like there's a lot of other things 12:21 that either have gotten whitewash 12:23 or they are covered up and still other things 12:25 that we don't talk about today. 12:27 And the fact of the matter is that there's not any sin 12:30 that's not repulsive to Jesus Christ. 12:33 So it doesn't matter what I suffer today 12:35 and I find that when I speak in churches and schools today 12:39 that when I began to talk about temptation 12:43 that I start hitting some nerves with people 12:45 because they-- whether it's diet 12:47 or whether it's pornography, adultery, 12:51 same-sex attraction, no matter-- 12:52 Religions addiction. Religions addiction. 12:54 Workaholism. 12:55 Yes, no matter what it is. 12:58 If it's something that there's a barrier 13:00 between you and your real relationship 13:03 that's offered to you by Jesus Christ 13:05 you know, it's an atrocity. 13:08 You know it's something that we need to examine. 13:10 James 5:16 tells us to come together 13:13 and confess our sins one to another 13:15 and pray for each other 13:16 for the healing that is promised. 13:19 And the enemy, you know, 13:20 Satan is trying to hold this away from doing that. 13:23 And today it is about community, 13:24 it is about a love message, 13:26 but it's not about the love message 13:27 from like the flower powered era, 13:31 you know, there are things out there today 13:33 that are telling people that you are okay 13:35 just the way you are. 13:36 You know, there's a film out there today, 13:39 a film called Seventh-Gay Adventist 13:42 that is saying you know, 13:43 it pains me because when I watch this film 13:46 I see three same sex couples accept themselves 13:50 for who they are and say Jesus love me 13:53 just the way I am, so you love me too. 13:57 And there's so much truth to that. 13:59 Jesus does love you just the way you are 14:02 but He doesn't want to leave you there. 14:05 And so it's about an intimate walk with Jesus Christ today 14:08 and finding out what's His plan for me is. 14:11 And if I settled for what my feeling were 14:14 I would be robbing myself from a relationship 14:17 that I can have with Jesus Christ. 14:18 Because you are saying that He's capable of taking us 14:21 further than that in our healing? 14:23 Absolutely. 14:24 And as we settle-- 14:25 because we're settling this for as far as especially 14:27 our sexuality is like you know, 14:31 we are saying that, 14:32 you know, people should be ordained 14:36 that are same-sex, defiantly accepted in the church, 14:39 monogamous relationship, 14:40 marriage and all that kind of stuff. 14:42 And what's really sad for me 14:43 because to get into those issues 14:45 because I know I have friends that struggled with this stuff. 14:49 And so I don't want to-- 14:50 I want to say to the people that I love is man, 14:53 that I am glad it's not my issue 14:56 because those are very core issues, 14:57 that's who we are, it's our identity 14:59 and so being able to literally trust God with our journey. 15:02 Right. 15:04 You know, I just believe that 15:08 here's God's word's is to us for all time. 15:11 He says He's the same yesterday, 15:13 today and tomorrow. 15:15 I don't believe that God is a tricky God, 15:17 that He's gonna withhold from us 15:20 permissions to follow our feeling. 15:22 If it were okay for me to have this kind of love, 15:25 the kind of love you have for your husband, 15:27 if that was the kind of love 15:29 I should be able to have for another same-sex 15:32 attracted individual it wouldn't be fair for me 15:36 if God wasn't going to tell me about that 15:38 and then just maybe surprise me 15:40 at His second coming and say, 15:41 oh, you could had that relationship all along. 15:44 He's not a tricky God, 15:45 He loves us so much but let's dig into that 15:48 and find out what is that love. 15:50 And what if God is calling me to celibacy 15:53 same as He would for a heterosexual individual 15:56 who haven't found a husband or a wife yet. 16:00 Is it worth it-- 16:02 is it worth it to fall in love with Him 16:04 and no more intimately Jesus Christ 16:06 and His plan for me 16:08 or is that my choice to go ahead 16:11 and settle for what feel best to me 16:13 and the sacrifice eternity. 16:16 Amen. 16:18 So now I am gonna ask you because you know, 16:20 even for somebody that is single and choosing-- 16:25 to try to do it with the right way in relation 16:28 and all that kind of stuff 16:29 as we are talking about integrity 16:30 and how to maintain our recovery. 16:32 And so maintenance, I mean, 16:34 when you step out of a whole lifestyle 16:36 and you step out of you know the relationship 16:39 that you had and the way 16:41 that you learned to receive love or give love 16:45 you know, what does that look like? 16:48 It looks like this, 16:50 when I am tempted it's a reminder 16:53 that this is a cross that I carry 16:55 because every one of us are born with a fallen nature 16:59 that Satan has tried to impose a bunch of lies on us. 17:03 His first lie to me was of being unwanted 17:06 and Jesus is constantly saying to me, 17:08 but you are wanted, 17:09 you are loved and you do belong 17:11 and you can't keep going this way to get affirmation on that 17:16 because people might let you down 17:17 and have let you down 17:19 when you thought they did love you. 17:21 It's about this relationship 17:23 and that's the only one that saves. 17:25 And the only way I am gonna have that relationship 17:28 is if I am spending any kind of quality time with Him. 17:32 Amen. 17:33 But I am seeing you also develop friendships 17:36 so that you really get to laugh 17:39 with somebody in a healthy way. 17:40 So you know, and I know that now 17:43 we had Michael on the show and you guys are good friend. 17:47 You know, I am praying that you and I 17:49 become better and better friends. 17:50 You know whatever-- 17:51 because every time we were together 17:53 I just realize that I really do-- 17:55 I mean, I am just like you. 17:57 I liked who you are and your journey 17:59 and all that kind of stuff. 18:00 So you really need to start developing those things 18:02 so that you can have some flesh. 18:04 Right. 18:05 Well, God wants us to have community, 18:08 He wants us to be-- 18:09 well, He created us to be relative with one another. 18:11 And He think as all-- 18:13 as long as it continues to bring Him glory 18:16 that that's who He would have as you know, 18:19 get a grounding with. 18:22 You know, coming together and studying together, 18:24 sharing what-- you know, 18:25 Mike has shared with me things that he's learned. 18:28 I look to him and listen to him a lot about his walk 18:31 and the things that He has studied out, 18:32 the influences that God has given to him 18:35 and God has given me different ones. 18:37 My ministry is more to congregations 18:40 and to church leadership and Mike has a unique ability 18:45 to be able to reach out to all kinds of people, 18:47 mainly towards you know, youth and just has you know, 18:51 a real spirit of being able to communicate with others, 18:53 you know, really well. 18:54 So one of the things that you do 18:56 as first is your own recovery maintenance 18:57 is connection with another people. 18:59 The accountability. 19:00 Accountability. 19:02 What does that mean exactly? 19:03 Because somebody will say, 19:04 accountability, what does that mean? 19:05 Accountability to me is being honest with one another. 19:09 I am honest-- If I get on the phone with Mike 19:12 and he knows you know, 19:13 he'll get calls out of the blue sometimes 19:16 and I say, you know I am really struggling with this 19:18 or if he maybe hasn't heard from me for a bit 19:20 he might call me and say, 19:21 you know, I haven't heard from you for a while, 19:24 you know, what's going on? 19:25 You know, you are just been busy with ministry 19:27 or you know, what kinds of issues are you dealing with. 19:30 I have a small community group in my church 19:33 which I've been part of for the last four years 19:36 and they know the ins and outs of my life, 19:38 they keep tabs on me, they call me, 19:40 I call them, we pray together, 19:42 they support me, it's very beautiful 19:45 but yet the integrity is so key 19:49 and so important because people can get the idea 19:52 that I am like fixed, you know. 19:55 And I am still broken. 19:57 You know, and I guess even at the beginning 19:59 when I say that it's like whenever we lie to ourselves 20:02 that like even for me, 20:04 that I am fixed I accept the Christ, 20:06 I got baptized, I understood it all 20:09 and as I am with God He unfolds it, 20:11 and I didn't understand anything. 20:13 Even to this day I look at how He brings healing 20:17 and I think we really are-- 20:18 I don't know our sanctification process 20:21 is never a fixing process and so you know, 20:23 for you to say as I put people around me 20:25 so that I can do that journey and do that journey honestly. 20:30 Yeah. I get reminders. 20:38 I shared this with you, just trying not to do this. 20:42 That's all right. 20:43 I shared this with you already since I got here 20:46 but I get reminders you know, 20:47 all the time about my brokenness and you know, 20:51 it's the simplest of things sometimes 20:53 but on the journey here on the flight here you know, 20:56 I sat next to a man and his wife 21:00 and we were both I believe in short selves shirts 21:05 and my arm hit the arm rest about the same time his did 21:10 and there was this warmth of flesh next to me-- 21:13 and as you know today, my life today 21:16 is without any kind of physical affirmation of any kind. 21:21 My relation today is between me and Jesus Christ. 21:24 But that coming together of that warm flesh 21:27 hitting somebody else's warm flesh 21:30 took me back in my head 21:32 to that yearning to want to belong, 21:35 to want to be connected with someone. 21:39 And I understand those feelings. 21:41 So anyone who is watching you know, 21:44 please know a widow or a widower, 21:46 a same-sex attractive person, 21:48 a single person who is never married 21:51 who yearns for that physical warmth, 21:55 it's not wrong to want that 21:58 but it's only right 22:00 to do it in the way that God intended. 22:03 So you-- but I want to say again 22:05 as like when you said that bring people around you, 22:08 what I am learning through just connection 22:11 is that we are meant to connect with each other, 22:14 we are meant to laugh with each other, 22:16 we are meant to reach out and touch each other, 22:18 we are mean to sit there and like even say, amen, 22:21 that was funny and touch each other 22:23 without having those fear and if we don't-- 22:27 if as people come in as you come into the church 22:30 or I come into the church, if we don't do that, 22:32 that-- the enemy can so play us in those areas 22:36 because we are starved, 22:38 we're starving to death and God is saying, 22:40 if you are gonna chose recovery, 22:42 maintain recovery you have to start 22:44 bringing those things you're your life. 22:45 Because walls can get built instead of being broken down 22:49 and so it so important today, 22:51 especially when-- 22:53 well, any single individual you know, 22:56 that comes into the church that you know 22:57 they spend a lot of time as, 23:00 you know, single lonely individuals 23:02 you know, give them a nice warm hug, 23:04 let them know that they are loved and they are cared about. 23:06 And I liked the way you said, 23:08 let's not just make it a gay issue 23:10 because people are just afraid of that word even 23:13 but let say the widows, let's say somebody single, 23:15 let's say somebody that same-sex, 23:17 let's say somebody that's heterosexual, 23:18 let's whoever is that if you know that you know, 23:22 that somebody is not having that affirmation a lot 23:26 you are the body of Christ, a family of God. 23:29 Weave them into the church body, 23:30 make them know that they are part of it. 23:32 So is there's anything else? 23:33 You know, one of the things that you do 23:35 that I think really maintains your-- 23:37 or that I see from a distance that maintains your recovery 23:40 is the fact that you are very passionate 23:42 about educating people. 23:44 And so you know, 23:46 you and I ran into each other in Australia, 23:48 then you went to New Zealand 23:49 and you just got back from Africa 23:50 and you come to the United States. 23:51 So you are going all over the world 23:53 saying out loud is man, 23:56 this is my journey, sometimes I do it really well, 24:00 sometimes I don't but here's why I am passionate. 24:04 And so you know, that's got to help in this-- 24:07 You know, my favorite verse is Revelation 12:11 that says, 24:12 we will overcome him, the enemy, 24:15 Satan by the word of our testimony. 24:17 And the more I share my testimony, 24:19 the more I go to God's word and say, 24:22 yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right, 24:23 it all adds up, God, you are right. 24:25 I am gonna go tell some other people about this 24:27 because you've added, you've brought joy to my life 24:30 and helping me know that I am living 24:31 in according to Your will instead of my own. 24:34 So there's a lot of presence in word of your testimony. 24:36 What about the people that say, 24:38 you know what, can you just accept it, 24:40 sit down and shut up? 24:42 Oh, yeah. Yes, I do. 24:44 I am very familiar with that. 24:46 When before I got into this ministry 24:48 I think there were people 24:50 who really wanted me to do that, 24:51 they wanted me to just go sit 24:53 in the church pew and be silent. 24:56 I don't think that, 24:57 that what I have done is much for my healing that, 25:00 that was necessary and God had really inspired me 25:03 that we had been in the dark 25:04 so long on this that we as a church, 25:07 we as a people can't afford to remain in the dark. 25:11 I want to go home. 25:12 I want to get this whole thing over with down here. 25:15 We need to learn to reflect he pure love of Jesus Christ 25:18 to other people the way He did. 25:21 He ministered among prostitutes, 25:23 tax collectors, you know lepers. 25:25 I wonder if there was anybody gay there. 25:27 And today gays are the modern day lepers, you know. 25:31 We've got to learn to love, not condone and condemn. 25:36 And to Christians that's often like, 25:39 what do I do then? 25:41 Unless you personally have an intimate relationship 25:44 with Jesus Christ you don't have any water 25:46 to pour into somebody's empty glass. 25:49 And so it does go well beyond the scope of homosexuality 25:52 by all means today and I've been amazed 25:55 that God is taking me out of the gutter 25:57 and put me in the pulpit to share this with people 26:01 because I am happy that you want to learn 26:03 how to reach out and love and care 26:05 about same-sex attracted individuals 26:07 but I am also concerned very much about you 26:11 and the intimacy or the personal relationship 26:13 that I heard about as a kid, I wonder what is that? 26:16 I wonder what is that? What does it look like? 26:18 Yeah, yeah. 26:19 You know when somebody says, 26:22 you know when you of course were standing up for ministry 26:25 I just cracked up because one of the things 26:28 I thought was incredibly difficult is that it's a topic 26:33 that people have strong opinions about. 26:37 They really either want to hear it 26:38 or they don't want to hear a thing. 26:40 They are afraid that you are gonna come on to their husbands 26:42 or they are afraid of all other kind of stuff. 26:44 So you really have that wall to fight against. 26:47 But then I want to shout out to someone 26:49 is that even in elementary school people 26:52 are teaching that, oh, this is okay, 26:53 no matter what you chose is okay. 26:55 So in secular world we're been indoctrinated 26:59 in all kinds of sexual-- in a way sexually. 27:04 All the movies are sexualize, 27:05 all the commercials are sexualize 27:07 and yet as soon we walk in the church 27:09 somebody says, don't talk about it. 27:11 And I am like, really? You know. 27:14 And so when you said, 27:15 I am gonna go out and talk about it 27:18 I am thinking, man, 27:19 get a bullet proof vest and then good luck. 27:22 Do you know what I mean? I do. 27:24 So you know-- tell me what-- 27:29 some of the things that are your passion 27:31 and why can't you shut up. 27:35 You know because for so long-- 27:40 because as a child and as a teenager 27:44 and as an adult I was pushed further and further away 27:46 and I am going, this isn't what God has in mind, 27:48 I know this isn't what God has in mind. 27:50 And so when God calls me back 27:53 and I find that the 40 years 27:55 that I was wandering in the world 27:57 and I come back in and find that the church 27:59 seem to have been wandering for the same 40 years, 28:02 I cannot afford not to share the truth 28:05 and the love of Jesus Christ today. 28:08 I can't afford not to. He's convicted me. 28:10 I could never be a gay activist 28:13 because when I lived in the gay culture 28:15 I knew in my heart 28:16 it wasn't according to God's plan 28:18 but I just don't know what to do, 28:19 I didn't know the practicality 28:21 of the scholarly type of information I had. 28:23 Today I do. 28:25 And so I have to go and share that with people 28:27 and as I watch people get it 28:30 people stay long into the afternoon 28:32 and into the evening during the question and answer 28:34 period of the seminars that I do 28:36 and I see them get it. 28:39 It's just lights the fire under more passion for me 28:43 to want to go and help others. 28:44 Now I wasn't so much a person 28:46 who could have been a gay activist 28:48 but I told my parents when I came back, 28:50 I can be an activist for Jesus Christ 28:52 and if that means that I lose my life that way, 28:54 I couldn't think of a better way to go. 28:56 Amen. 28:57 And you know that-- 28:59 what an incredible saying this is, 29:00 you know what I am so passionate about this 29:02 and who God is and vindicating His name in this issue 29:06 that I can't shut up, I can't stop. 29:09 But here's a caviar to that. 29:11 I hope this doesn't happen 29:13 but I like to put this out there 29:15 for people to think about today. 29:16 Don't put me-- this is not about Wayne Blakely, 29:19 this is about Jesus Christ. 29:21 And Wayne Blakely is still human, 29:23 he's still fleshly, he's still tempted. 29:26 What if I had a fall? 29:28 Are you gonna run from me or you gonna run to me? 29:31 Right. To help. 29:33 Yeah, because we need to come around the person 29:36 who's hurting and pray over them 29:38 and lift them up and say, you know, 29:41 I don't know what the brokenness is 29:43 but I want to get you reconnected. 29:46 No, with Magdalene you know, 29:48 I love when Christ met the woman at the well 29:51 and even Magdalene, but he woman at the well, 29:53 when she says you know, she's asking for water 29:56 and he's talking about relationships 29:58 and she doesn't even admit her relationships 30:01 but He says, you know what, you've been married five times 30:04 and the guy that you are with right now 30:05 you are not even married to, 30:07 and He says that with such love for her 30:11 that it changes her life. 30:12 You know, wouldn't you love it 30:14 if it would have been a gay guy at the well. 30:16 Do you know what I mean? Yeah. 30:17 Because we can't pull from those things. 30:20 But you know, Magdalene all of the sudden is on the street, 30:24 she's been you know-- 30:25 or the woman that caught in adultery 30:27 pulled right out of bed and she's guilty as anything 30:30 and He says to her, go and sin no more, I love you. 30:34 And she can't help to follow Him 30:35 the rest of her live. 30:36 So we've got a God that says, 30:38 that I am looking at these issues, 30:39 these issues are not good, 30:41 what you're to your body is not good, 30:43 it's really harmful to you 30:45 but I understand that you were desperately 30:47 wanted to be loved and God is love. 30:50 And so really He is trying to say all that to us. 30:52 And so when you say that I can't stop, 30:57 I've got to continue to say that, 30:58 I got to vindicate God, this is not about me, 31:01 this is really about Him 31:02 and when I fall, please love me. 31:05 Because you know, with integrity 31:07 like even talking about my mom at the beginning of the program 31:10 and I am so afraid that you know, 31:13 as God teaches me different things 31:15 and I wanted to be honest with Him 31:17 regardless of what anybody else thinks about me 31:19 because I don't want to lose God in this process. 31:23 Another point to make on integrity too, 31:25 I often have people say to me, 31:27 well, Wayne, you know, really needed a Savior 31:30 because you had a really broken life, 31:32 you know, you were sleeping around, 31:34 you were in prostitution, 31:36 you didn't have a monogamous 31:39 sanctified honorable relationship 31:42 that Jesus would want you to have. 31:46 And I get confused by that 31:49 because God loves every single gay person 31:53 as much as He loves every single straight person. 31:56 There is you know, God loves us all the same. 31:59 But I have to redirect that question 32:02 back to the Word of God 32:03 which again is His love letter to us. 32:06 Where can you go, where can you say 32:08 that this is what God's plan is for me? 32:11 If it's not there, it's not something 32:13 that I can hold comfort in and it's not there. 32:17 It's just not there. 32:18 And so we're just telling a lot today 32:20 about a monogamist relationship being-- 32:23 a same-sex relationship being pleasing to God 32:26 and there's no evidence of that in God's word. 32:28 So I just urge people to look beyond them. 32:32 And what's really funny about that is I ended up 32:35 with a couple that came for prayer 32:38 and they were in their 70's, a beautiful couple, you know. 32:41 And at one point we're gonna pray 32:43 and God says, ask them if they are married. 32:46 And I thought, oh, stop. Of course they are married. 32:48 You know, they are like 100 years old, 1,000 years old. 32:50 I mean, they, you know. 32:51 And so I said to them, are you guys married? 32:53 And they turned red looked down and said no, 32:57 we were just living together. 32:59 And so you know, again, it's like it's not-- 33:02 it's got-- they got to pay attention to that, 33:05 you know, just living together is not what I wanted for you, 33:09 I really wanted you in this one flesh kind of relationship. 33:12 And it's not judgment, you know, I get accused of this 33:16 and I think we all get a little bit of that 33:18 living as Christians today. 33:19 If we are pointing people to the Word of God 33:21 I've heard people say to me, 33:23 oh, you just judged me, you know. 33:24 No, no, no. 33:26 Actually where the truth is in God's word 33:29 and that's what actually convicted in my heart, 33:31 I am only drawing you to God's word 33:33 so that you can hear from God yourselves 33:36 about what He sees is been honorable 33:39 or dishonorable to Him. 33:40 And the more you fall in love with Him 33:43 the more you are gonna want to obey Him 33:46 or do His will instead of your own will. 33:48 It's tough. 33:50 I mean, I am not going to paint any rosy picture on it 33:52 that says, oh, this all feels good. 33:55 We get this idea that as Christians 33:56 they have this smooth road. 33:58 Really it's pretty rocky. 34:00 I might tell people the streets of gold 34:02 are in heaven and not on earth 34:04 you know it's the reward after this 34:06 but we've got to cling on to Jesus in this process 34:09 and believe and have faith. 34:10 And faith is often without feeling 34:13 and sometimes our feelings are screaming and yelling at us 34:16 and saying, yeah, you know, 34:18 if you have 20 minutes with that man 34:20 and could lay on his chest and hug him 34:23 and you would feel like you belong 34:25 and you know what-- and 30 minutes later 34:28 you would be al empty again, you know, it just isn't there. 34:32 And what's more, 34:33 it isn't there from the stand point 34:37 of what God's word is directing you to. 34:40 And I want to honor God. 34:41 We're gonna open up for questions 34:42 but I want to just say 34:43 that when you said 20 minutes with that man, 34:46 I think 20 minutes you know, 34:48 I am shooting up heroin 34:49 because my addiction is different 34:50 but we just want to get relieved, 34:52 relief from the loneliness of the pain we feel 34:55 and God says, the only way 34:56 you truly gonna get that is with me 34:58 and I promise you, 35:01 if you walk with Me in integrity, 35:03 walk with Me in honestly and let Me change your life 35:06 the you'll start having changes in your very desires. 35:09 So we're gonna open up for question. 35:12 I want to go with, Michael, you first. 35:15 You know, because you-- you know Wayne. 35:17 What do you think of some of the stuffs that he said? 35:19 Well, you know, my question for you, Wayne, 35:21 is so in this ministry that we've been doing together 35:26 we've seen each other through a lot of progress 35:29 and a lot of challenges. 35:32 And so, Wayne, what I really like to know from you 35:35 is what is your greatest challenge now 35:38 and also what is your greatest joy? 35:44 I would say right now the greatest challenge to me 35:48 are individuals that I see that are rejecting the truth, 35:54 that come to me with a counter truth 35:56 or a truth that they have accepted for themselves 36:00 but that doesn't match up biblically 36:02 and yet it's not my job to convict. 36:04 And so I pray over those individuals 36:06 and hope that God will get through, 36:09 I hope that their hearts are not harden 36:13 and that they let the Holy Spirit 36:14 speak to their hearts. 36:16 The greatest joy is in seeing somebody get it 36:21 and give their lives over to Jesus Christ 36:24 and let Him become leader in their life, 36:26 realizing that the road ahead 36:28 you know, may not necessarily be all leveled out, 36:31 that there's a lot of uphill 36:33 that He will carry them through 36:35 and that they have the support of people 36:37 who are walking this road along with them. 36:40 So let me just ask you 36:41 because when you say someone get's it, 36:43 I know that you went to a college in Australia, 36:46 I think you went to Avondale and you also did something 36:49 with a television station there. 36:52 And I know that there were young folks 36:54 that said you know what, 36:56 my whole life I've dealt with this silently, 36:58 I've dealt with this like in shame. 37:00 I've never been able to talk out loud 37:02 and they get to out loud to somebody, 37:04 I have this struggle and you can allow them 37:08 to walk through this struggle. 37:09 So are you saying that, 37:11 that's such a joy for you, keeps you going? 37:13 It is but the first-- yes, it is. 37:17 And it's rare, it's so rare because on the other side of it 37:22 you know, I've been through 37:24 what you said that you've gone through 37:27 and I know that God loves me and I know that God is fine. 37:31 I mean, let's look at Jonathan and David in the Bible 37:36 and so I am sure that God is fine 37:38 with same-sex relationship. 37:40 And so they-- often the arguments 37:43 that will come up that will grasp 37:45 at something to hold on to, 37:47 please, God, let me just the way 37:49 I am because I don't want to budge from how I feel. 37:53 When the analogy that's been given doesn't hold up 37:56 because it wasn't a sexual relationship 37:59 it's one-- and people sometimes-- 38:01 So because what you are saying is, 38:02 you are using Jonathan and David 38:04 as if it was a sexual relationship 38:06 and you are like, wait, wait, wait, 38:07 they were just good friends. 38:09 Right, to justify how they are today 38:11 and I don't need to change, I am happy just the way I am. 38:15 So unless somebody wants healing, 38:17 unless somebody is wanting to find a way out 38:20 I can't force them to come out. 38:22 I don't want them to come out against their will, 38:25 it won't do anybody any good 38:27 and I know that in my own life, in my own struggle 38:31 I would have been just like them 38:33 and I would have been listening 38:34 to somebody like me and going, yeah, right, 38:37 I am glad it works for you. 38:39 And so only the Holy Spirit can touch that soften heart, 38:42 it's on up to me to do that. 38:44 But you know what's really-- what's incredible to me 38:47 and I want to go with even with-- 38:50 you talk about the joy, Michael, 38:52 is the fact that you know, for-- in my ministry 38:55 when I get somebody that calls me 38:57 that is struggling with the same-sex issue, 38:59 I turn them over to you guys or turn them over to somebody 39:02 I know that is doing that ministry 39:03 because I know there sometime they just need to say out loud, 39:06 man, I just want to process this for somebody 39:09 and everybody is afraid of the issue. 39:12 And so the fact of you're not being afraid of it 39:15 has to bring some joy to you, it's like, I am not even afraid 39:17 and I'm really glad that you called. 39:19 Yeah, the joy is there. 39:22 When I get emails or phone calls 39:24 I am joyful because I know that, 39:26 oh, I have one right now that has divorced himself 39:31 from Christianity many years ago. 39:33 But when I found it in an article of mine 39:35 that I wrote three years ago, 39:37 why would they even been looking for my article 39:42 and today declares themselves as atheist 39:45 but now says that maybe there some reason 39:48 for them to become my friend 39:50 because they can-- I believe that the Holy Spirit 39:53 is involved in this communication, 39:56 there is so much bitterness 39:57 on the other side of this communication 40:00 but there still this sort of reaching out 40:02 which was the name of the article that I wrote. 40:04 Reaching Out. Yeah. 40:05 Okay you know, we have another question. 40:07 I think David, you had a question? 40:09 Oh, yes. 40:10 My name is David, I am from Illinois. 40:12 My question, well, I struggle with porn 40:16 and being with a lot of females 40:19 so it's like to say anytime God brings us close 40:23 and bring us in choose and show He love you 40:25 but did you think you would still have that struggle? 40:29 You think it was-- you know, if it's over with-- 40:32 well, once the brought you in? 40:34 You know, that-- what an excellent question. 40:37 God did amazing thing for me 40:40 and that the first four years of coming back to Jesus, 40:47 He really put that on a backburner. 40:50 I was so focused on Jesus 40:52 and I am still focused on Jesus today 40:55 but I will say that the temptation-- 40:57 and somebody recently said this to me, 40:59 the further you get into God 41:02 the stronger the temptation 41:03 the stronger the fight will come from the enemy. 41:06 And I am very aware of that fight today. 41:09 And so even more it drives me 41:12 to the foot of the cross and says, 41:14 I must maintain this relationship 41:16 with Jesus Christ and I pray to Him. 41:18 I said, please don't ever, ever let go of me 41:20 and I know you won't but please make sure 41:23 that I don't ever let go of you 41:25 and that I keep you know, claiming this promises, 41:28 Psalms 91 lately. 41:30 I know you should check it out, 41:32 I can dwell in the shadow of the moist high 41:35 that I am sheltered in the feathers of His wings. 41:40 Which is incredible. 41:41 We're going to come back, 41:43 I want you to continue on that 41:45 is what keeps you in recovery, what kinds of things you do? 41:48 You talking about Psalms, you talking about other things 41:51 but we're going to come back 41:52 and would you join me for the close? 41:54 Absolutely. Okay. 41:56 We'll be right back. 41:57 We're talking about integrity 41:58 and we're talking about passion, 41:59 we're talking about coming out of things, 42:01 homosexuality, drug addiction all of that. 42:04 So stay with us, we will be right back. |
Revised 2015-01-08