Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Ralph Sanchez
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000117B
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:13 Welcome back.
00:14 You know, when, when Ralph was talking
00:16 about just weaving the pattern with his dad
00:19 is that it felt like a volcano
00:20 and a lot of times in the domestic violence
00:23 regardless of the severity some people say,
00:25 that you have to have broken arms
00:26 and hospital runs to have violence
00:29 in if you with the family.
00:31 You do not, man, verbal abuses as intense
00:34 and definitely when you have that underline anger,
00:36 but it is like volcano that is just
00:38 you know the tensions there,
00:40 you know, it can erupt anytime and when it does,
00:42 you have that anger, you have that explosion.
00:45 So first you have the agitation
00:47 and then you have the explosion and then apologies,
00:49 then everybody tries to make it right again,
00:51 and the gilt and the shame
00:52 and then that agitation builds up
00:54 and its just conscious psycho.
00:56 And you saw that as a kid,
00:58 you intervened, not intervened
01:00 but it kind of God just put a little bit of I--
01:04 kind of truce with you and you dad.
01:06 So open up that relationship
01:08 and you both really are dying for that.
01:12 Your dad not knowing to how to get it
01:14 and you even making a valve at one point
01:16 that I'm not gonna open myself up to him,
01:19 realizing that you gonna have to do that somewhat.
01:23 Yeah, I mean.
01:24 We're gonna have a relationship with somebody
01:26 you loved with, you can it,
01:27 either not be there or show yourself down
01:30 which is good is, is as good is living in some extreme cases
01:33 or you gonna have to venerable.
01:36 And so God, so thankful that God,
01:38 there is a God, "A" and "B" that is a personal God
01:41 because without Him I've no doubt
01:43 this dysfunction never would have been solvable.
01:46 So, with that situation with your dad and the fact
01:49 that you intervened with him
01:51 or that God intervened with two of you,
01:54 so did it ever affect you
01:55 and any relationships you had apart from mom and dad?
02:00 Then I mentioned before that I had normally had I said
02:03 I will never do that in a kind of general way
02:06 but I had very specifically outlined
02:08 how my life would go.
02:09 Yeah. You even acted it out.
02:11 You know, to me when you said that I,
02:13 that's what I-- when you said that I thought
02:15 you know what, you didn't have the stories
02:18 where people had arms broken or the hospital,
02:20 but for get to act out,
02:22 I'm gonna actually practice not doing that
02:24 because I don't want to be that.
02:27 That showed me the level of abuse was pretty intend.
02:32 And ultimately the effective that had on me was intense
02:35 and not to go too far backwards here,
02:38 as I tried to work this out with my brothers
02:40 as recently as a couple three years ago,
02:42 before I confronted my dad on this--
02:49 they were, you know
02:50 the youngest brother was in diapers.
02:52 I mean, he may or not may or not have remembered.
02:55 My second to the youngest brother
02:56 says he has vague memories
02:58 but he never realized really how intense it was.
03:00 So I don't know how much of blocking there was
03:03 in this with them and how much was just age related
03:05 where they just not remembered--
03:06 They were too young.
03:08 With lot of people say, especially for a man is,
03:13 they intellectually lock off
03:14 close their heart down solid that you,
03:17 you are not gonna get to me
03:18 but then I don't know how to let you get to me
03:20 and I don't know how to feel truly joy,
03:22 laughter, love, any that kind of stuff
03:24 because I'm locked down and had been early.
03:27 And that intellectually locked heart.
03:29 I can go in my head
03:30 but I can't go in my heart or my feelings.
03:32 Which is exactly spells out the way I dealt with my dad
03:36 from the time I was born until just--
03:37 Just locked down.
03:38 Just locked down and you know, I talked to him and he,
03:42 you know, told me what he wanted me to do
03:44 more the longer I'd obey
03:45 I mean we had no relationship whatsoever.
03:48 Well, you know, I don't want to say value
03:52 because for me that's a big word
03:54 and that has got implied in it, but I promised myself,
03:58 I was just never gonna act like that
04:00 and I don't care and I imagine all the worst things
04:03 you know that a 12, 13, 14, 15 I can imagine,
04:06 that's are some pretty terrible things actually that turns out.
04:09 If that happens and this is how I will handle it,
04:12 but whatever happens I will never bring
04:14 that home and take out.
04:15 I was always taken it out on the people
04:17 who are doing at me, whatever.
04:20 Well, not my family.
04:21 Not my family. Not my wife.
04:23 And then I turned right around and got married
04:26 and about three years into the marriage
04:28 I found myself doing exactly the same thing
04:30 that my dad was doing.
04:32 And I'm a not so sure, was the same exact pattern
04:36 but then again does it really matters?
04:37 Dad was bringing it home from work.
04:41 I'm not sure where it was coming from with me,
04:42 I think it was actually frustration
04:44 with a growing relationship, you know,
04:48 probably some very normal stuff going on there.
04:50 And the husband and the wife
04:51 are getting to know each other and all the real lives.
04:54 But you know we talked about earlier about that
04:57 we don't have a tool kit.
04:58 I don't have anything in my tool kit.
05:00 So you know, I'm established in this new family
05:02 but all I know was what I know.
05:05 Yeah. And you know, I even kind--
05:08 as I looked back it didn't realize I was doing this,
05:10 but actually did kind of reach out to help
05:13 for help to some family members,
05:15 one was my brother which I don't think
05:16 was crazy, but one was my dad.
05:21 Even you said that I thought, you what, you're kidding me,
05:25 but you know what, who do we return to,
05:28 who do I say, you know what, I'm in trouble I think?
05:32 I'm in trouble, and I could feel the anger welling up
05:34 and this before I ever raised a hand on my wife
05:38 and I could feel welling up and I just didn't know I had--
05:41 like you say I had no tools, I call vocabulary,
05:43 had no vocabulary to deal with this at all.
05:46 And I can feel this thing happening to me
05:48 and it was so powerful
05:50 and so and burdened me that I was just closed.
05:54 I wasn't even naive becoming the evil monster
05:59 I was going to secondary college
06:00 and naive to the whole thing.
06:02 I really needed to re-tell it to an object for party,
06:05 really badly right then and there.
06:07 Even if it was the pastor I need to shade all shame on it
06:11 right then and there just go say, I got this think,
06:14 I think I gonna do something bad
06:16 and I don't want to do.
06:18 And I need some help.
06:19 We need some help. I need help.
06:21 Then we need help. And--
06:23 But instead you decided to have help.
06:25 I really was left on my own so
06:27 and I don't want to make sound like
06:28 it was everybody else fault.
06:29 What I learn here ended up dealing it.
06:31 So but in the end, I ended up, you know pushing my wife,
06:38 I don't I never you know punched her,
06:42 kicked her or threw on the ground and kicked her.
06:45 But was and-- Pushing, yelling, verbal abuse?
06:48 Yes. Okay.
06:49 And when you, I mean real bad
06:51 and when you brawl at somebody at full speed like a lion back
06:54 or even I'm not dealt like one still.
06:56 I mean, there is a lot of inertia there
06:59 and there is three or four times
07:01 when I have ran at her full speed
07:02 I was just so anger and I shout on her.
07:05 And you know, you push somebody hard
07:07 when they come off of their feet
07:08 fly across half of a room and hit the wall.
07:12 They are bruised.
07:14 They are messed up just as surely
07:15 if I taken my fist in her.
07:17 There is no difference, maybe worse.
07:19 I remember one time, that we were into it
07:24 and my wife at the time, she is no longer my wife,
07:28 my wife at the time wasn't my mom,
07:32 you know she was not an unable person
07:34 but maybe she was, but not in the same way my mom was.
07:36 She was gonna standup to you.
07:38 Yeah, she was gonna take any odd thing
07:40 that comes from me or anybody else.
07:43 But you know, longer I think was a good think,
07:46 but at the moment in those movements
07:48 it was peeled to the fire.
07:50 One time I ran into the bathroom
07:52 during this thing and pushed her so hard,
07:55 she was standing in front of sink
07:56 and she flew across the bathroom into the tub.
07:59 I think there was probably
08:00 the second or third time that that happened
08:03 and immediately after she landed in the tub
08:05 the way she landed she was all contorted
08:08 and I stopped and I looked at her
08:10 and for the first time I became aware
08:13 of just how lucky I would be, if she haven't broken her neck.
08:19 Exactly. I could have broken my neck.
08:21 Easily could have broken--
08:23 more easy than if I pondering her with my close fist.
08:26 I could have hurt way worse doing that.
08:29 And that probably was the beginning
08:31 of some kind of sobriety on this from me,
08:34 just the beginning.
08:35 You know, what's really interesting
08:37 and I've gotten to just say this--
08:39 because up until that point
08:42 for most people in those situations,
08:45 most people in domestic violence
08:46 is especially the perpetrator is it feels like
08:50 why do you keep pushing me like that?
08:52 Why do you keep making me do this?
08:55 And talk about that because that's every real
08:58 it's like I wouldn't do this if you wouldn't do this.
09:01 If you didn't--
09:03 Yeah, again I had and I apologies her.
09:08 I come across as I know it all and this bit really
09:10 by the time I was 15
09:11 I had this all these issues psychologically analyzed.
09:17 There wasn't an language, I think I was thinking that
09:19 and that was my excuse after the effect.
09:22 Because after these things happened,
09:23 I literally, physically felt ill.
09:26 You would be sick?
09:27 I mean sick, physically sick to my stomach.
09:31 And you know some of that was probably normal
09:35 from fire of fight mechanism they goes on.
09:38 But I think it was also a moral issue
09:40 and it was disgusting that would be weird.
09:44 And was disgustedly--
09:45 And I can't believe I'm every thing
09:47 that I said I wasn't gonna be.
09:51 There is something right there that kind of came up,
09:54 it's like I remember what it was
09:55 maybe it will come back to me, but yeah--
09:58 So she is lying in the tub,
09:59 you are seeing that realize the intensity of that.
10:02 And I just want to ask
10:03 because the children involved yeah?
10:05 Not yeah. Okay.
10:06 Now after, I wanted to know
10:09 when precious daughter was born I think,
10:14 and I could be corrected on this
10:16 and I'll happily accept it
10:17 but I think that the physical violence was subsiding or over
10:23 but the verbal damage was still going on.
10:27 So you are child grew up in the same--
10:29 In the form, the verbal damage is going on
10:31 and I was still physically violent
10:33 because I was picking stuff up and I mean, its felon--
10:36 how many felons he go through in six months
10:38 for you realize there's a problem.
10:40 So again another felon flies against the wall
10:42 and my little daughter, still on diaper,
10:44 she is probably two, comes down
10:46 and she sticks her hands on her waist
10:48 and she goes dad, what's going on?
10:50 You know, what I mean
10:51 and my wife and I had a terrible verbal fight.
10:55 She had gone out in a response
10:57 the all that I had phone in my hand
10:59 and I struck it against the wall
11:01 and there went another phone.
11:02 And that's you know when she had that response.
11:05 I remember at three, so sad that I couldn't say my mom,
11:10 I thought she was gonna be killed,
11:12 and I at three years old wanting to know
11:14 how I could stop them from killing each other.
11:17 And it just a horrible thing as a child to just say,
11:21 I have no power to stop these adults
11:25 from literally killing each other.
11:28 This was the hugest fear
11:29 between with my mother and father.
11:32 I lived this nightmare to be,
11:36 which was one with somebody
11:37 on a really, really hurt the other person physically.
11:40 And now it's in your own home
11:41 and that's how you're living.
11:42 So how do you-- where does any kind of sanity come in?
11:48 Because right now you're doing the same thing,
11:50 when you come out the door you guy all look good.
11:52 Because even the people you worked with
11:54 and I have heard someone says I had no idea
11:57 and they always look so normal.
12:00 Because you did the same thing that your folks did.
12:02 Yep. I was say so--
12:04 Same thing that every home
12:06 that is dealing with domestic violence tends to do
12:09 that every level, I have seen people
12:11 that have everything that have all other riches,
12:14 all other stuff, all of the toys
12:16 and then I have seen people in poverty
12:18 and they all tried to do same thing
12:20 when they walk at the door, lets look normal.
12:23 I had a job for a while
12:24 where I went door to door fixing people's exercise gear.
12:28 And I could go into home,
12:30 and I could feel that there is domestic violence
12:33 going on in that home.
12:34 So there is order and usually its more than just
12:38 you know wife gets once in her whole upset
12:41 with husband and slaps
12:42 and we're talking pattern domestic violence.
12:47 There is something in the air.
12:49 And there is like a feel, because I grew up with it
12:52 and I lived it and I became a perpetrator
12:55 and did my part to perpetuate that social evil and so--
13:02 So now where does help come?
13:06 Help comes finally when--
13:09 For you where did it come? When Cathy and Emily laughed.
13:13 They said we are done? Yeah.
13:14 To save ourselves, to redeem anything
13:17 as far as our lives, we have to take.
13:20 Cathy was not gonna put up, again she was not my mom.
13:24 I think she was more my dad,
13:25 if you want to do psycho analysis then,
13:27 I think I married my dad.
13:29 But she was not unable-- That's all another show, Ralph.
13:31 It's a whole other show but it also walks in to
13:33 what we are talking about and think a little too.
13:36 So personality wise.
13:37 Personality wise, she was very contentious
13:40 which in this case worked out for everybody,
13:44 especially for her to begin with.
13:46 She worked with my brother and sister-in-law to
13:51 I got to get out from here what I'm gonna do.
13:54 I need a safe place.
13:55 My brother is a physician so he deals with this stuff sadly
13:57 frequently so he had mechanism, they found a shelter,
14:00 want a shelter for them to go to in another state
14:03 and they went.
14:05 It took me according to the chase a little bit,
14:08 two weeks to admit what was going on.
14:09 So I come back from a bicycle race
14:12 on a Sunday afternoon and nobody is home.
14:13 I can't think, well, that's not high unusual,
14:15 they often on the warm Saturday, go off
14:17 and do what they really want to do.
14:20 Evening comes its 9, 10, 11, 12 nobody comes home.
14:22 No calls?
14:23 I'm thinking, shall I call my in-laws
14:26 and see if she is over there across town.
14:29 And so I just let it rest.
14:31 By 3'o clock in the morning,
14:32 I wakeup in the middle of the night
14:34 and they are never gone all night,
14:36 there's not without me knowing where they up.
14:39 And so I'm in deep in my heart, I know what's going on,
14:44 but I'm denying even to myself.
14:46 And a whole another day goes by I go to work,
14:49 whole another day goes by and I get call from my dad,
14:53 my dad confronts me on this issue.
14:57 Isn't this some irony in that? Yeah.
15:00 Okay, I'm just saying.
15:02 I think that's a great irony that from ways
15:05 that we probably won't have time to even get to here.
15:09 Later that evening my uncle Rolf calls me,
15:13 my dad's oldest brother.
15:15 And he doesn't confronts me, but he never calls me
15:17 not that we don't like each other
15:19 but he just doesn't call me now that I'm adult for some reason
15:21 I'm no fun anymore or something.
15:23 And he just asks me, how I'm doing?
15:25 I'm saying, okay.
15:26 Lying to him and to myself.
15:28 And crossing my fingers
15:29 that somehow what's happening isn't happening.
15:33 The next day my brother, my physician brother
15:36 who has this-- he and his wife have assisted Cathy
15:39 and Emily to escape their circumstances.
15:42 And he calls me up and he hangs on the phone
15:46 saying nothing other than this is damn,
15:49 how are you doing?
15:51 He is waiting for me, you know to talk to the stuff
15:53 and so we be beat around this bush for a few minutes
15:56 and he just tells me at one point,
15:57 he says, look Ralph, I deal this all the time,
16:01 every week I deal with this and he says,
16:03 legally I am obligated to report
16:05 this stuff every time it happens.
16:08 And so when he says that
16:11 reality really begins to wash up.
16:13 I realize this isn't a mind game,
16:15 this is way bigger than OG
16:18 what people in the church kind of think about it
16:20 and this is way bigger than all that,
16:22 that's I'm not very at
16:24 but its seeping as just this is a big deal.
16:28 And it's a big deal and its not
16:30 that I didn't realize it was big deal,
16:32 but it's bigger than the deals
16:34 I have that were bigger than it,
16:35 that's how the people perceive me
16:37 and reputation and all that.
16:39 And what's really interesting
16:40 that when your living in that day in and day out,
16:42 you can, that is your norm
16:45 so it began so look like its okay, not okay really,
16:50 but it doesn't feel life threatening,
16:53 it doesn't feel so abnormal
16:55 and then when your brother said,
16:56 is you like you know, this was wrong.
16:59 Yeah, so he just laid it right smack on the line.
17:03 I think even my mother call me at one point,
17:08 so but I think so text the better part of a have a week
17:12 or almost full week from neither
17:14 finally get to the point,
17:15 where I'm telling myself this is what's happened
17:18 and it takes a day from you really simulate
17:20 that and move on to now what,
17:24 if anything now where are they gone forever.
17:27 And so now that its-- the cats are out of the bag--
17:29 Because in with perpetrator
17:32 and what's really interesting in my own life
17:34 because I have been involved in situations with
17:37 and there was domestic violence is that
17:39 you wanted to say honestly from your heart I'm sorry,
17:43 I want to it again.
17:44 So that's first reaction comes up
17:46 is like I will change this time, I will get some help,
17:49 I will do all that kind of stuff.
17:51 But in you gut you know that maybe this is too late.
17:53 Oh yeah.
17:56 I'm not gonna be able to redeemed this.
17:57 That's right.
17:58 And that again take another couple of days,
18:01 they were Cathy and Emily were probably gone at least a month.
18:06 And it took me another few days to get to the point
18:11 where I was brooding past,
18:13 the feelings of urge all just do this apology or something.
18:17 I did, I still wasn't really aware of
18:22 the consequences of these actions
18:24 because I've never seen a consequences of
18:26 the actions before.
18:28 Right. And your dad-- your mom stayed.
18:31 She never left, she never took off.
18:33 So you know for you to have that woman
18:35 that says you know what, I'm done, I really I'm done.
18:39 I may love you but I have to take my child and leave?
18:44 So it takes other few days to get to the point
18:47 where I'm-- now since I cant figure out
18:49 what do we do from here I called by brother back
18:53 and I say, so what do we do from here?
18:56 And he said, I'm not sure he goes what do you want?
19:01 Took me another day to process that.
19:05 I really I love my family,
19:09 I was weird to be a family guy and really,
19:12 the realization that my family
19:14 could be taken away from me in an instant
19:18 and then to realize I'm the one who did that was,
19:23 was huge I mean that really,
19:25 it helped me to understand in a way I never could
19:28 I don't think otherwise probably unfortunately,
19:33 that how valuable that was to me.
19:36 And it took me several days to really evaluate
19:39 just how valuable is this.
19:42 What is this really meant to me?
19:43 You know, we usually break for question
19:45 and I'm gonna keep it here from in it
19:47 because I just want to-- you know everything
19:50 that you said I will never do, I will never be,
19:54 now you're sitting there in the quite of your house
19:58 by yourself saying I'm all that.
20:01 Where do you go for help?
20:02 I mean, how do you find the hand of God again?
20:05 How do you, how do you get into safe place for yourself?
20:09 Realizing at that time, that the chances of my never--
20:16 my wife or my daughter never being married to me again,
20:21 realizing that I could easily now take
20:24 that as forgone conclusion that I would be lucky
20:26 if I was even able to communicate with them again.
20:30 Because they could get restraining order?
20:31 That whole thing.
20:33 They could make sure that you never seen them again.
20:34 That's right.
20:35 And they had all of oddity,
20:37 they had evidence, they had everything.
20:41 But since anger had been part of my life
20:44 uncertainly trail that even at school
20:46 I got busted a few times, I would just blow up,
20:49 I would punch guys that were twice my size
20:52 and some times they would punch back
20:53 and that wasn't pretty either.
20:54 But just the fact,
20:55 this is my anger would get out of control,
20:58 so fast it was something I troubled with my whole life.
21:02 And so I, it was another stepping stone
21:06 and anger has been-- I can go back in another program
21:09 and show you literally like a ladder
21:11 this is been a life time of growth.
21:14 Very miserable one in this regard
21:16 but at least there is growth.
21:17 And I began to work around, I began to wonder
21:23 do I go to a psychologist or a therapist.
21:25 Well, I stumbled into a place
21:27 they called Antler's we were willing
21:30 and they had a 12 step program there.
21:33 They mostly deal with alcoholics
21:34 but they also took in people
21:36 who were convicted domestic violence perpetrators
21:39 and I went and I joined that group
21:43 and that's how I began
21:46 to tangibly take care of specifically
21:49 with no borrows hold my anger issue.
21:52 So you know what,
21:53 always we have two programs to cover this but we don't.
21:57 So in the time that we have left
21:59 which is only like eight minutes or so,
22:02 what did you learn in that group?
22:03 What, you know, what was life changing for you?
22:06 Because change in the very core who you are,
22:09 from the time you were little.
22:11 And confronting what you became
22:13 and then coming out of that.
22:14 How did that happen?
22:18 It wasn't really, it was not therapy,
22:20 it wasn't psycho therapy, it was you know,
22:23 get to hit people when your mad or you are going to jail.
22:25 It was that kind of therapy.
22:26 Take go cave? Can I write that down?
22:29 Yeah, in my group I was the only one
22:31 that was there voluntary.
22:34 And I got there and I don't know
22:35 what I thought you know,
22:37 it made I'm somewhat naive in the world,
22:38 especially some of the programs are listened to of yours
22:41 I realize in some way that had lucky
22:42 but sadly some of the people
22:44 I've been responsible for don't have it so lucky.
22:48 And in that group
22:50 we used a technique called rational emotive therapy.
22:53 And I was been long time since I have gone through strictly,
22:56 but the bottom line is, its training,
23:00 its child-- I mean children should have this figure out,
23:02 now joining when you get mad you don't punch people,
23:05 you what I mean, those people get this figured out sooner
23:09 but this was what we learnt to do.
23:13 So let me just--
23:14 You know brought up earlier
23:16 that the idea that I'm asking myself,
23:19 this violence happens
23:20 and I wish you would stop making me mad
23:23 and in rational emotive therapy we learn specifically
23:26 that we are the ones that decide how we are gonna react.
23:29 Nobody makes me mad, nobody makes me happy.
23:33 And so that's one of the first thing
23:35 and what I wanted to say before we go that
23:37 because I really love
23:39 that approach to special domestic violence.
23:41 But if you want to go just on the biblical sense
23:44 what they say is, take every thought captive.
23:47 And so it's the same kind of thing is what you are thinking,
23:49 what are your lies, what are your errors,
23:52 what moves you?
23:54 And so with somebody that's strikes have violently is like
23:57 if they didn't do that, I wouldn't be mad
23:59 and what they do is making me mad.
24:01 So the first lie is, that nobody can make you mad.
24:03 That's right.
24:04 What are some other lies
24:06 that they were teaching you in that group?
24:10 Well, that was the biggest and most important one,
24:12 because it was interesting every time
24:14 the facilitator would throw that out,
24:17 Alvy was coming back with
24:19 and she is spelling it out for us, you know.
24:21 Nobody makes you feels this way
24:23 and they are going, well,
24:25 for me it's when she or he does this or that the other thing.
24:28 That's just makes me mad.
24:29 You know what I mean and we go through weeks.
24:31 Than I went through four months of this,
24:33 you know, four days a week
24:35 and we were three months into this
24:37 and these same individuals were going.
24:39 This just makes me mad, its make me made,
24:42 that mantra it, he, she makes me mad.
24:46 That little child makes me mad
24:48 when mom was in there for hurting her baby.
24:51 But my baby does this it makes me mad
24:53 and your looking at that person you're kind of going
24:55 they actually believe that.
24:58 And I'm thinking I actually believe that.
25:01 But, and being able
25:02 the most incredible moment for God to do for any of us
25:06 is to say that is not true.
25:09 You can, you know,
25:11 you can respond in a different way,
25:14 you take a breath and respond in a different way.
25:17 You can counter ten, you can walkout
25:19 and come back but to actually get mad
25:21 and physically throw something or hit someone,
25:24 you can't do.
25:25 It's not okay. It's not okay.
25:28 And here is the wonderful thing about
25:29 during things God's way is its freeing.
25:33 In what sense?
25:35 That I'm not driven, nobody dictates to me
25:39 how I'm gonna feel, I get to choose that.
25:42 So you so, they are out of your life now
25:47 and I know that credits in some sadness for you,
25:52 some heartbreak for you.
25:54 But how are you different now?
25:58 Well, I want to share this,
26:03 because I think so far and I'm gonna continue
26:07 to learn my lesson from all of this,
26:10 but so far, I mean, we were married
26:12 for another 15 years after that
26:15 and one thing I want to say is,
26:18 I asked her several times over the next several years
26:21 after we reconciled and got back together.
26:23 She wouldn't even think about coming
26:24 until I had finished this program
26:26 and the paper was in my hand.
26:27 And mutually visited the facilitator
26:30 who was a trained psycho therapist.
26:34 It wasn't easy to get my wife and daughter back,
26:36 it was not easy at all.
26:38 At any moment I could have change
26:40 just because she fell like it
26:41 and she had every right to do that.
26:45 But 15 years after that, than the marriage dissolves
26:50 and this is what I want to say.
26:54 I don't think that I could dictate myself here,
26:57 but I don't think that she left primarily because of us.
26:59 We-- our relationship was a little distant
27:02 but there wasn't anything real in my estimation
27:05 really bad about it.
27:08 But there wasn't anything really good about it either.
27:09 It was just kind of there and I was traveling a lot.
27:14 But you know what, I think and the more I think about it,
27:19 the more I believe you,
27:21 that we could still be together,
27:23 if I had laid a foundation that she could have gone
27:27 through all the stuff she was going through
27:28 and she left.
27:31 And felt there was one safe place
27:34 and that place was her home and her husband.
27:37 And so, what you are saying is that
27:41 the damage that was done in your relationship
27:45 they never felt like safe place for her,
27:47 their was alway--
27:48 Yeah, no doubt.
27:49 And I believe that she forgave me.
27:52 You know, I really believe that and when she forgave me,
27:55 I then ask forgiveness from God.
27:58 So all the forgiveness has done but so as the damage.
28:02 And that damage, I mean, it's no less than
28:04 that I build a high rise building
28:06 and I forget to take care of one little corner over their
28:09 and it exposed to little more water,
28:11 the building may still last 20 or 30 years
28:13 but it was meant to last to 100 years.
28:16 But that one tiny little piece of the foundation erodes,
28:19 and it erodes and it erodes
28:21 without anybody getting there with a hammer
28:22 really knocking it around it
28:23 just the foundation begins to come lose.
28:27 And even with all people doing their best
28:30 that they could my wife, me doing the best
28:32 that we could with the pressure life puts upon us
28:35 and the challenge of being married,
28:37 still there was no foundation.
28:39 I corroded the foundation
28:41 when I brought violence into the home,
28:43 that's what I wanted to make clear.
28:44 I corroded that marriage relationship
28:47 permanently by bringing violence into the home.
28:50 You know, we are going to go out on a break
28:54 and come back to the close
28:55 and I would like you to come back
28:59 and you kind of talk to the guy out that,
29:02 that says you know I don't think she is making me mad,
29:04 they are making me mad and talk to him.
29:07 Because it is everyday that you bring damage into home
29:10 and you may not go back to fix it,
29:12 you may not be able to go back fix it,
29:14 even in your healing,
29:16 even in the fact that you know
29:18 that there is a God that forgives you and loves you
29:20 and Ralph, I know that about you,
29:22 you know you want to stand up as a man of God
29:24 and you want really do the right thing,
29:27 but he can fix us, it was always--
29:29 there was too much that happened.
29:32 We will be right back,
29:34 if you are in that situation now,
29:36 I'm gonna kind of tell, specially women
29:38 a few things about keeping themselves safe
29:41 and if it's a woman that's your abuser
29:42 I will tell the guys and then--
29:44 I'm gonna have Ralph
29:46 just give you some advice maybe.
29:48 We'll be right back, stay with us.