Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Bob McKain
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000114B
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:15 You know, we are talking about environment
00:18 and all of that kind of stuff
00:19 and I was telling you difference
00:20 in a physical environment or going outside
00:23 and how beautiful that is, your emotional environment,
00:26 your work environment.
00:27 And, you know, Bob McKain,
00:29 I want to say welcome to the show.
00:31 Thank you for coming.
00:32 But do you remember what I'm talking about
00:34 when I said, I walked down the hallway
00:35 looked up at you and said hey.
00:39 You know, I do and at the time
00:42 when you did that I thought,
00:43 well, this is interesting because I was told,
00:46 I probably shouldn't manage nonprofit ever again.
00:49 Because you have just done it.
00:50 I just done it.
00:51 And it was not-- not that it wasn't good on your part.
00:54 Talk a little bit about that and say why would you say,
00:56 ah, I don't know?
00:57 You know, I think, I think it really truly is
01:01 trying to fit the square peg in a round hole.
01:03 I'm very much, very much into business,
01:06 corporate business
01:08 and that's what I understood, that's what I spend my time in.
01:11 You know, managed multimillion dollar projects
01:14 up to 40 to 100 people at a time in a test lab
01:19 and so going into a non profit it's a different thing.
01:24 Even when you say that,
01:25 there is a part in me that I just get tickled
01:28 because I think how funny is that
01:31 because not only am I saying do on a gig
01:32 and what you're doing, but we're so flaky.
01:35 You know, so I think even the nonprofit you came from
01:38 probably was a little bit more together than us
01:41 and but what was your process like, what did you do
01:44 because you eventually said yes?
01:47 You know, the fact is that I was looking, okay,
01:50 and I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do
01:52 and what I was going to do.
01:54 You know, it's-- you reach to the point
01:58 you don't know what you want.
01:59 You just don't know
02:00 where you are going to go next, right?
02:01 And so I had to think about this
02:04 because I was like, okay, great,
02:05 another non profit, I said I'm not going to,
02:07 I just can't do with another nonprofit,
02:08 I'm just not going to do it.
02:10 And for whatever reason I'm not really sure,
02:14 I think God just said, you know,
02:16 I really want you to do this and you can help them.
02:21 And so I think that's really why I came down to you.
02:23 Well, I found out within the first little while
02:25 when you said yes.
02:26 When you said yes and we both had to laugh
02:29 because it's like can we hire you,
02:30 we have not money, and you're like, okay.
02:35 You know, when you said yes, that was kind of incredible
02:37 but then I also heard about your prior job
02:39 where they outsourced the entire department.
02:41 So you had employment history where I think
02:45 you were getting hit in every single direction,
02:49 prior to coming to us.
02:50 Yeah, I would say so
02:52 and I think that's actually very typical for--
02:56 for a lot of Americans right now
03:00 that are in this age group in the 50 to mid 50s.
03:05 You know, for whatever reason the jobs are being off shored
03:09 and I really don't want to go into that,
03:10 that's a whole different thing.
03:12 But, you know, the truth of the matter is
03:13 many jobs have been off shored downsize whatever
03:16 and trying to decide
03:18 what you gonna do with your life,
03:19 you know, you got to, you gonna reinvent yourself
03:21 or you gonna try and go back
03:22 and do what you know how to do it
03:24 and search some place to do it.
03:25 Yeah, so that was really-- I just, I just had so much fun
03:30 because I'm looking at you when you finally said yes,
03:33 realizing what a gift you are to our organization
03:37 and the success you had to give us,
03:40 but also realizing that
03:42 we're addicts in recovery, we're flaky.
03:44 We're coming from broken homes.
03:45 We're dealing with kids
03:47 that are coming from foster placements.
03:49 We're doing prison ministries.
03:51 We're traveling to Thailand working with prostitutes
03:55 and here's this business guy that stumbles in.
03:58 So at one point I remember telling you.
04:00 I think I'd like you to read my book,
04:03 Miracle from the Streets to just
04:04 and I thought just get idea like who we are
04:07 and I handed it to you, and the look on your face.
04:10 What did you say? How you did?
04:11 What was that about for you?
04:13 You know, you handed me Miracle from the Streets
04:16 and I just, you know, I looked at that
04:18 and I said, yeah, whatever.
04:23 Thank you. Thank you.
04:24 I didn't see that thing,
04:25 stay for a while I was thinking,
04:27 oh, great, you know, here's my homework.
04:29 Yeah. And so...
04:31 And now she is my boss,
04:32 I have to at least glance at it.
04:33 I have to look at, you know, and so I did.
04:35 I did actually took it and I actually read it,
04:39 you know, I think was-- we had disk,
04:41 we have product that needed to get out.
04:42 I think I was burning disks and at that time, you know,
04:47 it was intensive enough,
04:49 it was just chewing up the computer time so.
04:51 I read the book straight through
04:53 from cover to cover while I was doing that.
04:55 And so, you know what?
04:57 This is my favorite part
04:58 because I feel like the Holy Spirit stepped in
05:01 and talked directly to you.
05:04 Really had nothing to do with my story
05:06 in particular though.
05:08 Can you share that with us?
05:11 You know, this is something we've been talking back,
05:13 you know, where we're going to go from,
05:14 you know, with this.
05:17 You know, the fact of the matter is
05:19 as you know,
05:22 when I say a lot of people are in the situation
05:24 that I found myself in,
05:26 it is a very difficult situation to be in.
05:28 And, you know, I think we're all trying to decide,
05:31 you know, what is going on,
05:33 am I really truly now worthless.
05:35 Am I really truly now unable to do the things
05:38 I used to do it.
05:39 And I remember hitting a distinct wall at one point
05:43 where I literally just could not do anything.
05:46 I couldn't do any of the things
05:47 I was capable of doing anymore.
05:48 I couldn't think.
05:49 Anything that you define yourself by?
05:51 Anything that I define myself by,
05:53 but not only that but any of the things
05:55 that I knew that I was capable of doing.
05:57 I just simply, I came to a point
06:00 where I wasn't smart enough, good enough,
06:02 anything anymore to do things that I needed to do
06:05 and that was a hard place to hit.
06:07 I mean I just couldn't process stuff anymore.
06:09 And, you know, I went through
06:11 a very huge depression state
06:18 to the point of-- I don't like to see this
06:20 but contemplating suicide
06:23 And a lot of especially,
06:25 you know, a lot of people don't like to say that
06:26 and when they say, you know, I just got hit,
06:28 I lost my job, they've outsourced,
06:31 they've whatever, I mean age group that
06:33 people are not even want to interview.
06:35 I've got all the stuff going on.
06:37 Man, I am just done.
06:38 You know, I am just done.
06:40 And, you know, it's really interesting
06:43 when you started to say that out loud
06:46 is I do hear that all over the place.
06:48 It's like, you know, where do we go
06:50 when our identity is just kind of yanked from us
06:53 and nobody is handing us something else.
06:57 You know, typically I think we do feel like
07:00 we're in this alone most of the time
07:02 and I think, I think what happen here is that...
07:07 God knew where I was at, may be I didn't,
07:10 but He certainly did
07:12 and I really wasn't looking for God.
07:15 At the time it's like, yeah, this God thing, whatever.
07:17 I'm here to do a job, okay.
07:19 And that's really the way I saw it.
07:21 That's so the way it was for you.
07:23 So funny, you were so business,
07:26 and I'm like looking at you saying,
07:28 oh, man, he is going to really understand how flaky I am.
07:31 Do you know what?
07:32 And I thought it was really funny
07:34 that God brought this whole thing together and for me
07:37 because I just got it so brand
07:40 is for me to being able to say,
07:41 God, what's Your plan here because I don't get it.
07:46 And so you're reading the book, you're doing, you know,
07:50 you read it through, Holy Spirit said what?
07:55 You know, really it just brought me to
07:57 the point of realizing that I think you said
08:02 and it really hit me that God was,
08:05 not only He's just crazy about me,
08:06 He was just like insanely crazy.
08:12 You know, to the point where you now just look at
08:13 and go house of hell, just insane it is that even for,
08:18 you know, me because when I look at the things
08:20 that were wrong with me,
08:21 I just said, you know, God, I don't know,
08:24 I don't even like me, how can You like me?
08:26 And, you know, for him
08:28 basically at that moment of time said,
08:29 you know, I'm so fiercely insanely
08:31 crazy about you, okay.
08:33 I sent My Son, I allowed My Son to pay your price, right?
08:38 And I'm like why would you do that?
08:40 You know why?
08:41 Because I love you.
08:42 And, you know, and really that's the message
08:45 I think that you give,
08:47 and, well, I though it was kind of hokey at first,
08:50 I really do understand that God is crazy about me.
08:54 What was really amazing to me, Bob, is that
08:58 when you left with the book, I knew that you,
09:00 I didn't even think you were going to read it
09:02 because I got that sense when I gave it to you.
09:05 And I'm again just smiling at God saying,
09:08 you know, God, what's up?
09:09 Why this guy?
09:11 And I immediately trusted your talent, your skills,
09:15 your business stuff and not that I knew
09:18 what you're going to do with them till it last,
09:19 but you know, I immediately trusted that.
09:21 But when I gave you the book I thought,
09:23 I wonder if he's going to even read it,
09:25 but the next time I saw you all of the sudden
09:28 what I saw was this kind of almost a softening up,
09:33 you know, that kind of pushing that hardcore kind of shell
09:37 was literally kind of broken somewhat
09:40 and soften and I thought, oh, what happened?
09:42 You know, and you can see it and I was like what happened?
09:44 And you started talking about that you got the thing
09:47 about forgiveness through the book.
09:48 Got the same thing about
09:50 God is crazy about us through the book
09:52 regardless of what we bring to the table.
09:56 That we have a God that's bigger than that.
09:57 That's right.
09:59 That's you.
10:02 So are you willing to go into any of your job?
10:08 You're like, I knew you are going to ask me that,
10:10 because, you know, what's really tough is
10:12 I knew a lot of your stuff,
10:14 but I know that this is really new for you I think that--
10:19 And what's interesting for a lot of us
10:21 especially when we've survived with our skills and talents
10:24 and been out in the corporate world
10:25 and all that kind of stuff.
10:26 When God said, you know what?
10:27 I'd like you to come out of the bondage emotionally
10:30 and can we look at these issues that you have chidden
10:33 your whole life so that you could be free.
10:42 So when I was about six,
10:44 I was sexually molested by a neighborhood girl.
10:52 I know that most people would think
10:54 that's every guy's dream, right?
10:57 And what they didn't realized that was something
10:59 that was affecting me so profoundly.
11:00 I had extreme anger issues, road rages, now,
11:06 you know, it's just not a problem for me.
11:09 You know, I'd just rather hit you than catch you,
11:14 that's kind of where I was at.
11:15 But, you know, what?
11:16 Like even though I knew that we might possible go into that.
11:19 This is really tough for you to even say aloud
11:21 because you weren't saying this to your family or anybody.
11:25 I looked at some of other things
11:27 that how are men affected by early molest
11:31 or sexualized behavior in that rage
11:33 and that anger was really common.
11:35 It was saying that will act out with our addictions
11:40 or rage or whatever, not even thinking that
11:44 it is associated at all with the early molest.
11:48 I would never have guessed that was a--
11:51 Yeah, you know, another, one of the other things
11:54 kind of manifested for me is sort of this
11:57 love hate relationship with women.
12:00 I obviously married, loved my wife,
12:02 I love my daughter.
12:04 There are women I will work with and trust,
12:07 but for the most part if a woman got,
12:10 you know, too close to me, it was not only get away,
12:13 it was just get away and then I would turn in,
12:16 I'd like to say, I turned into spot,
12:18 you know, just more emotional more, you know,
12:20 the more they came on just the more.
12:22 It felt manipulate a bit, felt like somehow
12:25 I've got to protect myself against you.
12:27 Don't play me like that.
12:28 Don't cry, don't use your tears,
12:31 but those were all triggers for you to go into rage.
12:35 In fact it's still there because right now
12:38 everything inside is just going...
12:40 But, you know, what?
12:41 I hear when you say that,
12:44 but I don't know if I abide as much as--
12:46 You know we've been working together
12:47 for how long now?
12:49 Little over year.
12:50 Little over year and I remember one time
12:54 talk about the time the computer thing
12:56 and your other gig
12:58 and the guy that was having struggles.
13:01 Oh. Yeah.
13:02 Because you have changed in so many ways,
13:05 even though you might not see it
13:07 as much as we get to see it.
13:10 You know, I have a buddy in...
13:12 Well, I say a buddy
13:14 because I really wouldn't have certainly called him a buddy.
13:17 'Cause you didn't like him.
13:18 Yeah, it was an acquaint instead I had.
13:20 I have the website that I run for--
13:24 If you ever watched movies like Shrek Cars
13:27 or anything like that, we call that 3D modeling.
13:30 That's why I've slide it, the kind it does that,
13:32 that's why I met this gentleman and because he was...
13:34 Let me just do a commercial here for the site.
13:36 He is so good, unbelievable on the 3D stuff
13:40 that you've put together.
13:41 You just sold a train 3D model that you put together online
13:46 to somebody else is doing
13:47 some kind of motion picture promotion.
13:49 Yeah. So you really are good.
13:51 This is a real site with some incredible artist.
13:57 And I have to say, you know, I am just nullified,
13:59 these guys are incredible people,
14:02 but anyway this is how I met him and he is in Ireland
14:05 and I'm not going to mention his name or anything.
14:07 It's just we've had some extremely...
14:11 And I'm thrilled about, he is just a jerk in Ireland.
14:14 I'm sorry.
14:16 We don't want to mention his name.
14:17 Even he has got the same thing about me.
14:19 It was very mutual.
14:21 But, you know, because he was Wiccan
14:24 and I am a Christian, at least, you know, a sort of Christian.
14:27 So on every single level you guys are not.
14:29 We used to clash on everything, right?
14:31 And we couldn't agree on anything
14:33 and it was a complete--
14:35 We would talk for hours and it was like
14:37 screaming, yelling mad at each other, right?
14:39 And so I had not heard anything from him in probably,
14:43 I won't say may be seven eight months, you know,
14:46 and all of a sudden he is trying to call me on skype
14:50 I hate when that happens
14:51 because I just don't want to pick it up.
14:54 Yeah, and I did neither.
14:56 But something said pick it up and so I did.
15:01 You know, long story short,
15:02 we had a very long conversation.
15:04 You know, he was in a very difficult situation
15:07 and something that I really felt
15:08 he could have been suicidal over
15:10 and so, and I kind of picked that up
15:13 because of the messages he texted
15:15 as he was trying to call.
15:16 And so anyway we talked a long time.
15:18 I shared with him more I was at,
15:20 that's kind of what led into where I was at.
15:21 Shared with him your spiritual journey right now.
15:24 Spiritual journey right now, what I've just shared,
15:27 you know, what I just shared with you,
15:29 you know, about being molested as a child
15:31 and what it had led me to
15:33 and, you know, at that point in time
15:35 we really did apologize to each other
15:37 for being such jerks to each other
15:40 because we had been.
15:43 And then in the process of that discussion I just said,
15:46 you know, just imagine
15:49 if what we went through his cause just to do this.
15:52 Just imagine what it means for you,
15:54 you know, this person, this person and this person
15:56 what, you know, people that we had,
15:58 you know hadn't said we're dealings with
16:00 and at that point.
16:01 Because what you were saying is that
16:03 we don't know what people have gone through.
16:05 We don't know what happened to them in their life
16:07 and yet didn't it just, didn't it just surprised you
16:12 that you were speaking so compassionately,
16:15 so emotionally with some spiritual truth
16:18 because that's not like
16:19 what you were doing a week before.
16:20 No, no, I wouldn't have done that six months prior,
16:22 you know, six months prior
16:25 I'd just simply said, well, that's your problem, okay.
16:28 I don't have anything to share with you
16:30 or deal with you,
16:31 and it's funny the reason he did called me as he said,
16:34 you know, the reason I called you
16:35 because of all the people I know, you will be real, okay.
16:39 So anyway at that time notice like
16:43 all the light bulbs went out in his head
16:45 and he said, you know, I just can't believe
16:48 because I just can't imagine
16:51 what must have happened for those people,
16:54 and I've been so incredibly mean to him as well.
16:58 And so, you know, so all of the sudden,
17:01 you know, I'm reaching out to a guy who is Wiccan,
17:04 who I'd just normally wouldn't have dealt with.
17:08 And he really didn't trust your Christianity
17:11 because you were angry
17:13 and screaming and yelling or whatever.
17:16 And all of the sudden that change happen.
17:17 So you had when you were sharing with me
17:19 that skype conversation
17:22 and how unusual that was and you could hear yourself.
17:25 I also knew that friend, your wife is in the background
17:30 hearing you responded in a whole different way
17:32 to someone where it would have been anger
17:35 and now it's compassion and saying how cool is that.
17:40 What's happening? Yeah.
17:42 It definitely was different for me
17:45 because of all the things that I've gone through
17:49 which led to me to a point of doing the things
17:52 that I needed to do to protect myself.
17:54 And, you know, I think the part of the journey
17:58 I am on right now is learning
18:01 to allow God to take those things,
18:04 to take those things and own them.
18:07 And let him protect you.
18:09 Yeah. Yeah.
18:10 Because He loves you, He is crazy about you.
18:12 What's so cool about that is that man
18:17 and I don't know, I probably should have checked with you
18:20 even before the program to ask you this next question,
18:23 but there was a time that I think that Brad and I
18:27 and you and your friend went out
18:29 and did Christmas lights or something.
18:31 We just decided we're going to go out
18:32 and you came in and then spoke to your son.
18:38 Oh, man.
18:40 Why don't you help me out a little bit?
18:41 Just being able to share with him,
18:43 may be even for the first time about your molest possible,
18:47 not that he was ready to hear you,
18:49 but even opening up in the sense saying,
18:51 you know, what, I need to share something about myself
18:53 and when you did that I was like, you know,
18:56 it's incredible how God...
19:00 Okay, so, you know, because of everything
19:06 that's happened in my life and, you know, it's been...
19:14 I'm not just sure where to, what to do with this.
19:16 You know, we just all messed up,
19:19 okay with this.
19:20 Exactly and you know how many people
19:22 that are watching are saying exactly
19:24 and I wish I hadn't and man when I think about mine,
19:27 it brings that shame and guilt or whatever.
19:29 And yet at this point in your journey back to God
19:33 or into a real relationship with the God.
19:35 You are saying even to the people around you is
19:38 I don't know how I'm going to do this but I am sorry.
19:42 You know we do things,
19:45 I guess I'll just say it this way.
19:46 We do things, we learn to survive,
19:49 okay, how we learn to survive
19:51 and based on things that happened to us,
19:54 that changes what we-- it changes what we believe
19:59 and that really does change how we react, okay,
20:02 and how we respond to things and
20:04 if we never find a better way to respond,
20:07 a better way to deal with those things
20:09 and we continue going on the way,
20:10 we've learned to cope.
20:12 And those things that we learn to cope with
20:15 often really hurt our-- the people closest to us
20:19 because they are close to us.
20:22 And, you know, and I just have to say
20:25 I hurt my son incredibly.
20:29 You know, because of the anger and,
20:32 you know, you don't have to beat somebody up.
20:34 You don't have to slam people up against the wall.
20:36 You don't have to be physically violent
20:39 to completely beat somebody to a pulp.
20:42 Yeah. Okay.
20:43 It's just, you know, verbally
20:45 you can just cheer somebody apart
20:47 and, you know, all those things add up
20:53 and they compound and I just have to say that,
20:55 you know, my son was at a point
20:57 where he was learning to deal with those things himself.
21:00 And he called me, I don't really remember
21:03 why he called me right now.
21:05 You know, but the thing of that is, is for the first time in
21:09 I can't remember when we had a very long conversation
21:14 where we opened up to each other.
21:15 And I was able to apologize to him for,
21:18 you know, the things that
21:20 you know, that I have done
21:21 and the reasons why I was the way I was.
21:24 And not that it makes anything right
21:26 but at least it provides a bases of other standing up.
21:29 Where you came from. A bases for healing.
21:32 You know, this is our foundation for healing
21:34 and man, it may not happen overnight,
21:38 but my commitment to you is that we're going to heal.
21:43 You know, I just-- I so respect your journey
21:45 and watching it and watching God,
21:48 you know, soften in and what I hate about
21:51 and tell me if this isn't true
21:52 that you take two steps forward and ten back.
21:56 It is definitely, it's a give and take.
21:59 You know, I really do feel like,
22:00 you know, some days you have those,
22:02 those incredible highs, that's where you know,
22:04 you know that God is working.
22:06 You know, the things are right.
22:07 You know, you are moving forward
22:09 and the next day it's like, you know, the devil, he just,
22:13 he knows every button to push and the next day,
22:15 you know, he pushes all 30 of them, whatever it is
22:18 and you're laying on the ground
22:19 wondered what just happened.
22:21 And you know, I think Satan did that
22:24 with us as an organization at one point
22:26 where we were all shocked.
22:28 But it's just a matter of each of us
22:30 are really going through a healing process
22:32 in incredible ways.
22:33 I'm so grateful that you're a part of the team.
22:38 I'm so grateful to be working with you.
22:41 But more than that it's fun watching
22:43 God bring you out of hiding.
22:46 Do you know what I mean?
22:47 It's like the part of you that has tried to protect themselves
22:50 and a part of you that,
22:51 that fell like the world wasn't safer that,
22:53 you know, what if you're going to hurt me,
22:55 I'm going to hurt you worse in that part of you.
22:57 And I want to ask you, you know, is God--
23:01 How is God becoming more real life in your life?
23:03 Because that was the whole journey too?
23:06 You know, it is a daily-- it's a daily,
23:10 I don't want to say battle, just it's a daily deal, right?
23:14 And some days I know what's right on,
23:18 some days I don't, you know.
23:20 And the way I think the way it's happening though
23:23 is that even on a days where, you know,
23:26 I just failed again, I just, you know,
23:29 I drive down the road, the guy cuss me off
23:31 and you know, I fly in the rage
23:33 and I'm like, okay, where'd that come from?
23:35 Yeah, don't be cutting him off you guys.
23:38 I'm just saying.
23:39 We're trying to keep his temper down.
23:43 You know, but those times is like, you know,
23:46 I had an incident where guy cut me off here about,
23:49 I think it's couple of months ago,
23:50 it's been couple of months now.
23:53 That's good.
23:55 I get a phone call, like I didn't even go into a rage.
23:58 I thought good on you.
24:00 You know, I did, you know, this guy just he almost hit me,
24:05 it was in the middle of the intersection,
24:07 he ran a red light in--
24:09 while I'm in the intersection
24:10 and normally I've already looked,
24:14 I don't look again and something just said,
24:15 I really, you know, it was almost like
24:17 something is grabbing you, look, okay.
24:19 And here's this car coming down,
24:21 I mean I was able to hit the brakes fast enough that he,
24:24 you know, he got around me.
24:25 And I caught up with him and I was ready to
24:28 just rip him apart
24:30 and I turned around and looked and the guy just--
24:32 it was like, his head was hanging in shame,
24:35 he didn't want to look at me.
24:36 And I'm like, what a jerk,
24:38 you're gonna tear this guy apart,
24:40 he didn't even see the red light,
24:41 it was a mistake, he feels bad, you know.
24:44 And I remember pulling down the road and just thinking,
24:47 okay, I really have to repent because in my heart
24:51 I had already, you know, ripped his head off.
24:53 Yeah. So the journey is amazing.
24:55 I would say it's fun
24:58 and I just have to tell a story
25:00 that I was really taught is, you know,
25:04 you are working in a ministry,
25:05 we're doing all of these projects.
25:07 You've really come in and given us a framework
25:10 or structure that we can work in
25:12 that is so solid, it's so cool.
25:16 But I get really sick
25:18 and I'm going on a trip, I'm afraid
25:21 because for one I've been in the hospital twice,
25:24 I was really, you know, my whole intestines
25:27 were shutting down.
25:29 I mean it was a pretty serious thing,
25:31 and you came up and said,
25:33 I've put together a anoint team with--
25:36 we've a couple of pastors at church with the pastors
25:39 and I want to do that before you fly out.
25:41 And I thought, you know,
25:42 that is as much as in the last year
25:46 that I've seen God work with you as far as softening
25:49 and trying to kind of deal with anger
25:51 and that molest stuff and all of that junk
25:54 is then I've got this--
25:55 I see this man of God,
25:57 literally stepping up and saying,
25:59 you know, I'm not sure how I'm going to do it
26:00 if we need to do an anointing service.
26:03 And even your prayer, it was, you know,
26:05 just a powerful thing with Randy Maxwell
26:07 and Brian Yeager and yourself
26:09 and saying the prayer and then sending me off.
26:11 And so your journey to the heart of God
26:15 is being just delightful, really delightful.
26:21 It's right, I'm not quite sure
26:23 how to respond to that but thank you.
26:25 I'm gonna open it up for questions,
26:27 see I know there is a couple of people here
26:29 that know you really well,
26:30 so I'm gonna start with your wife.
26:33 So Fran, with what Bob is kind of covered this thing.
26:38 Do you have a question or a comment?
26:39 Have you noticed his journey?
26:43 Definitely I remember when he apologized to our son
26:48 and it was about that same time
26:49 I think that apologized to me as well.
26:53 And that was really the first time I knew
26:55 about the molest that was in his background,
26:57 he hadn't shared that even with me before
27:00 and it was a very eye opening thing for me to hear that,
27:06 that was at least part of what was behind
27:09 the anger that he has dealt with all of our married life.
27:12 And I can at least meet you the question I was thinking,
27:15 I'd like to ask you.
27:17 What would you give advice to women
27:21 who are in the relationship like that with a man
27:23 who is struggling with anger that way?
27:28 Well, I think it's gonna be hard
27:31 to know unless I'm really willing to share
27:33 and I think the best thing that you can do
27:37 is probably just prove to them that you can be trusted
27:42 and the way I think to do that something that,
27:46 you know, I've seen it happen since I've been
27:49 working with True Step is that, it's nonjudgmental.
27:54 And you know, we're our own worst enemies.
27:57 We know what we've done wrong
27:59 and we know where we're deficient
28:02 and in our society it's not okay.
28:05 It's not okay for us to be unable to protect ourselves,
28:08 protect our family, and to be deficient in anyway
28:13 and especially for, you know, I think a lot of, you know,
28:20 older generation probably falling in this category,
28:23 may be a little bit more because we came from a very
28:26 can do self sufficient mindset,
28:31 so I think the nonjudgmental is very real part of it
28:34 because if we feel like we're going to be judged
28:38 again, you know,
28:40 because we're already judging ourselves.
28:43 I don't think we're going to be able to open up.
28:46 So judgment is that it's huge.
28:48 But let me just ask you this then because in a--
28:52 I read some research
28:53 and they said in this our generation
28:56 they are the most unhappy generation ever,
29:00 and I'm like, like really, like the boomers kind of thing.
29:04 And so I read the study and I thought why is that?
29:07 why would that be?
29:08 And we're pretty much one of the first generations
29:12 as somebody said, you could do whatever you want.
29:15 You could be president, you could travel the globes,
29:18 so they're not just doing farming,
29:19 they're not just generationally doing that kind of stuff.
29:22 All of the sudden everything opens up to them
29:24 and that's a big thing to give somebody
29:26 that you either fail or succeed but you can do it
29:30 and then what you're saying is the pressure of that
29:32 on top of having something that actually robs you anyway
29:36 but the pressure of that was too much.
29:38 So not being judgmental, what would you say to man
29:41 about opening up
29:42 because how can I not judge you
29:44 when I don't know what's wrong.
29:45 Do you know what I mean like, I don't know why you are angry
29:48 but I love you and stuff.
29:50 So what would you say to man, it's like,
29:52 would you tell him, tell someone?
29:56 I'm not sure if I can answer that question.
30:00 I'll just say for me.
30:03 I'd say the answer for me anyway
30:05 was actually taking the time
30:08 to sit down and do some reading
30:12 and let God actually get through to me
30:14 because, you know, there's other things
30:18 that enter into this, you know, I was actually never,
30:22 you know, my dad never really accepted me
30:25 or acknowledged me as a man and so I never got that as,
30:29 you know, at any point in my life,
30:32 so I think that those-- we just finally,
30:37 you know, we look at God the same way.
30:39 You know, however we see our fathers, we tend to--
30:42 And I think this is-- I think this is actually
30:44 something that is really wrong.
30:46 We tend to allow other people to define to us who God is
30:50 rather than allowing God to define to us who He is.
30:54 And so, we project everything that we see go wrong.
30:58 So, you know, if somebody claims they're Christian
31:01 and they do something wrong to us,
31:02 then all Christians are bad, you know, God is bad too.
31:05 And so I think that's really a problem
31:09 that we have in our society.
31:10 That original father wound, this is if I--
31:13 if I don't have that foundation
31:14 where I can be sure of that God is loving.
31:17 God cares about me. He adores me.
31:19 He not only thinks I'm confident
31:23 but He is equipping me because my father equipped me,
31:26 so if you don't have that
31:28 then you have to define that yourself.
31:30 And that's what we do it poorly.
31:31 That's right. That's a great point.
31:34 The question that you couldn't answer
31:36 if I could, if there was anybody
31:40 that's watching this program and they're saying that,
31:42 you know, I can relate to Bob
31:44 and I have that same kind of background
31:46 and I understand what he is saying
31:47 about that early molest or that damage
31:49 and you're lost in whatever, anger, porn whatever.
31:53 If you can open up to anybody, maybe just God initially
31:57 and then start opening up to your family as you heal.
32:00 It's going to bring you on a journey that will free you.
32:04 And so what's really hard to say is open up,
32:09 like in any 12 step program
32:11 and we're gonna talk about
32:12 after we come back from the break.
32:13 We're gonna talk about the one
32:14 that we put together as a ministry.
32:16 But in any 12 step program, the first kind of step is to--
32:20 I made you powerless.
32:21 You've done the best you can
32:23 and I'm still wanted to shoot the driver next to me.
32:27 You know, I'm doing the best I can
32:29 and it's not helping me.
32:31 And so God, I'm going to finally turn it over to you
32:34 and accept you that I see a God that cares about me
32:37 and can restore me to sanity.
32:39 And all of those steps kind of our journey back to God.
32:42 And I'm watching you take all of those, Bob.
32:45 And I so trust your journey right now.
32:48 So I want to thank you for sharing that with us,
32:49 but that's the huge one.
32:51 You know, friend, great question.
32:53 I know, Bonnie, you had a question for Bob.
32:58 I'm Bonnie, and I'm from Oregon
33:00 and I really relate to Bob's story
33:03 because I struggled with anger misused to
33:06 and it seems like,
33:08 I can get up in the morning, have my devotions
33:10 and have a really nice time and I go on about my day
33:13 and next thing, you know, I come across something
33:16 and it sets me off and I'll be just gone so fast
33:20 and it makes you want to just say, well,
33:23 did I just waste my time.
33:25 Did I waste my time I spend with God
33:28 or how do you deal with that on these little things
33:32 and it's so hard to let go the anger.
33:35 Absolutely, it's tough to let go the anger.
33:37 It's also tough to let go the guilt
33:39 because we do feel guilty, you know,
33:41 because we tripped up again.
33:45 You know, for me what I'm realizing is one that
33:49 I'm not able to do it myself, okay.
33:53 I think that's one of the things
33:54 that I said I'm not smart enough,
33:55 I'm not good enough, I'm not strong enough.
33:58 And that was a really difficult realization for me to come to
34:02 because of all the things we've talked about.
34:05 And I think once you do come to that,
34:06 then where does that strength come from.
34:09 And I think the reason that it's difficult for us is
34:13 because we've learned how to respond to things and cope,
34:16 so that we can survive and we haven't truly,
34:21 we haven't truly come to a point that
34:23 we can rely on that strength of God yet.
34:25 We still want to jump over and go, let me handle this.
34:28 This one's mine, I got it.
34:30 Because we think we're better, right?
34:32 We think we're better and we're not.
34:36 And God is the only one that can give our power
34:40 and for the guilt thing, I'm still working on that,
34:44 but I do understand now that God loves me unconditionally.
34:47 That doesn't give me a ticket to go and do crazy things.
34:53 It just gives me the peace of mind
34:56 of knowing that He is going to forgive me
34:59 and He still loves me
35:00 and we're still going to take that journey together.
35:03 What's really interesting tune as you're talking.
35:06 You know, Bonnie, thank you for bringing that up.
35:07 But as you're talking, you know,
35:10 it gives you permission to count to ten too.
35:13 Do you know what I mean?
35:14 It's like, it gives me permission
35:15 through the Holy Spirit,
35:16 like you do with that drivers out,
35:17 even if it was a little bit down the road,
35:20 it's like, man, I saw his face, and I saw the fact that he--
35:23 you know he felt bad
35:25 and I'm ready to rip his head off
35:26 and I'm sorry for that,
35:27 so it gives us permission to really change the way
35:31 we typically respond when you took the skype call.
35:34 And all the sudden now you're ministering to him
35:36 instead of yelling at him.
35:39 Yeah. Powerful stuff.
35:41 Yeah, and it's.
35:42 You know, you have to give credit to God really.
35:45 There is nothing we can do except
35:47 I think as you said open up.
35:50 But, you know, what's really interesting is
35:54 that I don't know, Bob,
35:56 if you would have been as effective with us
35:59 an organization with the content
36:01 that we have to put together,
36:03 had not you read the book Miracle.
36:06 You know, if you read the book
36:07 and I also saw that God is crazy about you.
36:10 Saw that you're forgiven.
36:11 Saw all that kind of stuff and started you on journey
36:13 because your own journey brought to the pages even
36:17 and more honest-- more as honesty
36:21 that you can give to someone else which is cool.
36:24 We're going to take a break.
36:25 We're going to have a longer closing typically
36:27 because I want to show, I want to show the viewers
36:30 what we kind of put together as an organization
36:32 because I'm so proud of it.
36:34 But I'm also proud of your journey.
36:36 Was very cool. So we're gonna be right back.
36:38 I want to show you that recovery program
36:40 we've put together and we couldn't have done that
36:44 had we not had Bob come in and just organize us somewhat.
36:48 And he doesn't do it too much because of my palm sweat,
36:50 still very frightening for me.
36:52 Stay with us, we'll be right back.