Participants: C.A. Murray (Host), Cheri Peters
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000110B
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior.
00:04 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:17 Welcome back again.
00:18 The book for the season is a "Celebration."
00:20 And it's really interesting, C.A.,
00:22 because I don't know--
00:23 I am such an addict in recovery.
00:25 I really don't do anything normal,
00:28 you know, I'm finally growing up some,
00:30 you know, all of those kinds of things
00:31 but I feel like I am somebody's momma,
00:32 trying to teach the stuff.
00:34 But it's really good stuff.
00:35 So I am going to tell you acronym for CELEBRATIONS is--
00:39 every letter means something.
00:41 So C is for choices, E is for exercise,
00:44 L liquids, then Environment, Believe, Rest, Air.
00:49 And we talk about air like I try to figure out
00:52 it's not just you know,
00:54 that you know, like environment.
00:55 It's not that you just want to have
00:56 a nice environment and go out to a nice lake.
00:58 You want to have a nice environment in your head.
01:01 You know that craziness in your head or in your soul,
01:04 that guilt and shame
01:05 you want to clean that stuff up.
01:07 And so air the same way
01:08 as that you want to be able to say,
01:09 I want to be able to breathe and I wanted to fill my lungs
01:13 and be able to move nutrients or whatever through my body.
01:16 But I want to emotionally breathe too.
01:18 You know when we are in depression
01:20 our breath is shallow and all that kind of stuff.
01:22 So we're teaching it on different levels.
01:24 After air is T for temperance.
01:27 Who know what that means.
01:28 Temperance is that we are
01:30 you know, everything is kind of imbalance.
01:33 You know, we have to balance to our live.
01:35 O is for optimism, that you know,
01:36 hope does restore your bone.
01:39 I mean its like-- What about the I?
01:40 Oh, I is for integrity.
01:42 There you go. Wow.
01:44 Well, you know, integrity is tough one.
01:46 It's who are you really? Yeah.
01:48 You know, you're the same,
01:49 you know, in your home as you are on the outside.
01:51 And so it's just like, who are you really?
01:53 And if that matters, work on that.
01:55 You know just be able to do that with your recovery.
01:57 Again, you will never recover
01:59 if you don't get some of this stuff down
02:01 because you'll hold down to your journey for a while
02:05 but then you just relapse
02:06 because this stuff has to become real.
02:08 So optimism, nutrition is a big thing, social support.
02:11 I need to have friends, I need to know how--
02:14 if I don't know how to do it,
02:15 I have attachment disorders and bonding disorders
02:18 and all that kind of stuff, I am socially underdeveloped.
02:21 But what God said to me almost right away
02:23 is learn to let people in, learn to let people love you
02:27 and learn to love other people.
02:28 And in that there's healing that happens.
02:31 If I know you and I am in trouble
02:33 and you're my friend then you can stop and say,
02:35 hey, Cheri, I think you are in trouble.
02:36 And the Bible talks about if one man falls
02:39 and you have friends around you
02:41 they are gonna help you back up again.
02:42 Yes. Yes. Yes.
02:43 So social support is important. So all of those things work.
02:46 I am thinking on the converse, I guess it means sometimes
02:49 that if you've got some toxic relationship
02:51 you got to jettison those things,
02:52 you kind of let them go.
02:53 Yeah. Yeah.
02:55 And it's really tough, you know,
02:57 when I came off the streets
02:59 the one guy that I was with most of my life
03:01 was a guy name Tommy.
03:02 And I would say, in my life I loved him.
03:05 I had been with him forever.
03:06 And he didn't get off drugs and I left and went to school
03:10 and decide to find God,
03:11 and one day he shows up in my mom's house.
03:13 And he shows up and he's so high,
03:16 can't even hardly see in.
03:17 He looks at me and he says, Cheri,
03:19 I can't do this without you, you have to come back to me.
03:22 And I hear God say, walk in the house,
03:24 just walk in the house.
03:26 And I wanted-- more than I wanted to breathe
03:28 to walk right up to him and live with him.
03:30 And I knew that I would die with him if I did that,
03:33 and God says, you go in the house and shut the door.
03:35 And I turned around to walk to the house
03:37 and I told him, I can not stay out here
03:39 and you know what, I have to do recovery,
03:43 I can't come back.
03:44 And I turned around and he said,
03:45 would you at least hold me?
03:47 And God said, if you hold him, you will die with him.
03:51 And I said, I cannot.
03:52 And I walked in the house
03:53 and my legs collapse underneath me
03:55 and I fell on the ground
03:56 and I just wept and wept and wept.
03:58 So in those social things
04:00 that you learn to take care of yourself with,
04:01 is some of them is gonna be so hard to walk away from
04:05 but you gonna have to.
04:06 And then when you grab hold of somebody,
04:08 grab hold of people
04:09 that are fighting for the recovery,
04:10 fighting for the relationship with God
04:12 and doing the right thing, its you.
04:15 Absolutely it's you. Yeah, that is powerful.
04:17 And not to believe is from what at this point
04:19 I think optimism comes into the realization
04:22 that okay, its dark now
04:23 but it's not gonna be dark always.
04:25 You know you got to try to find some sunshine
04:28 and gravitate towards that.
04:30 I had to look at you know,
04:31 I had to look at God saying that,
04:33 you let me show you who you are
04:34 the day after resurrection.
04:36 But you know, sometimes the only thing
04:38 I can hold on is the day after resurrection.
04:40 I am not an addict in recovery,
04:42 the day after resurrection
04:43 I am not unwanted child, an abused child.
04:46 The day after resurrection
04:47 I am an incredible child of God,
04:49 innocent and beautiful beyond what I can imagine.
04:53 And sometimes that's all I can hold on to
04:54 but I hold on to that with everything in me.
04:57 But then because of my life
04:58 and my friendships are healthier
05:01 I can just laugh out loud with people
05:03 that I have in my life.
05:05 I have cool folks in my life.
05:06 I mean, I think you are awesome.
05:08 You know, our momma is awesome.
05:10 You know, we have just incredible folks around us.
05:12 So now we're gonna go into talk
05:14 about folks around us.
05:15 Yes. Yes. You know.
05:17 I interviewed a friend of yours.
05:20 Yeah, a friend and a co-worker.
05:21 Someone I have known a long time,
05:23 been at his home, eaten at his table,
05:25 know him well on a certain level
05:27 but found out a little bit more.
05:29 And of course, you know,
05:30 we use the term, man up.
05:32 You know, we use that terms
05:34 sort of pilots for the day.
05:36 He did so because he bought some dark stuff out.
05:38 And you worked with and talked with Ralph Sanchez
05:42 and it was really a powerful, powerful program.
05:43 Who is incredible about you know,
05:46 we're gonna look at a roll and we're going to use--
05:48 look at Ralph talking about
05:50 he was a perpetrator with domestic violence.
05:53 And but you know, what I--
05:54 I hope people dwell with that is he watched his dad
05:58 beating his mom his whole life growing up.
06:01 I mean, that's what he learned
06:03 and really just said, I don't want to be that.
06:06 And yet he became everything that he didn't want to be.
06:08 And we're gonna look at Tracy,
06:11 a friend of mine goes to the same church
06:12 and Tracy was just crazy, crazy.
06:16 Strung out on meths, staying up for days, party demons
06:20 and literally coming in by watching 3ABN, you know.
06:24 Found 3ABN, found Celebrating Life in Recovery
06:27 and the only thing that helped him to stay sane
06:30 during his journey back to God
06:32 was the fact that he could turn the television on and loud,
06:36 listen to somebody speaking the Word of God
06:39 and it really bought him back into recovery.
06:41 Wayne Blakley coming out of the gay culture
06:45 and trying to figure out who he is.
06:47 Who he is and is it--
06:48 I hate when people talk about coming out
06:50 of homosexuality or whatever
06:52 because I want to just say, shut up,
06:54 do you think that's all it was about?
06:56 And even with Wayne it's so clear,
06:59 his dad wasn't around,
07:00 he wanted a male to love him his whole life,
07:03 he wanted a dad to hold to.
07:04 He never had that and had an abusive mom.
07:07 And his story was amazing.
07:08 So I want you to watch this.
07:10 And again, this was an incredible season.
07:15 I remember one time that we were into it
07:20 and my wife at that time-- she's no longer my wife.
07:23 My wife at that time wasn't my mom.
07:28 Yeah, she was not an enabler person
07:30 or maybe she was but not in the same way my mom--
07:32 She was going to stand up to you.
07:34 She's isn't gonna take any old thing
07:36 that comes from me or anybody else
07:39 which in a long way I think is a good thing.
07:41 But at the moment in those moments
07:43 it was fuel to a fire.
07:46 One time I ran into the bathroom during this thing
07:48 and pushed her so hard,
07:50 she was standing in front of sink.
07:52 She flew across the bathroom and into the tub.
07:55 I think that was probably the second
07:56 or third time that, that happened.
07:59 And immediately after she landed in the tub,
08:01 the way she landed she was all contorted
08:04 and I stopped and I looked at her.
08:05 And for the first time I became aware
08:09 of just how lucky I would be
08:12 if she haven't broken her neck.
08:14 Driving a car, driving to town and I'm just acting insane.
08:18 There's static all around my body,
08:20 I feel like something clinching in around my throat.
08:23 And I am wonder, how much power do they have?
08:25 Can they choke me up?
08:26 And my fear was that they were working for,
08:29 they wanted me to deathly afraid of them and they won.
08:32 As soon as I am afraid they are winning
08:33 because I am not thinking about God,
08:34 I am thinking about fear and them and--
08:37 I tried to wash the static off my car,
08:39 I tried to throw the floor mat out
08:41 because I could feel it was super heavy.
08:43 I knew the demons were on this and that,
08:45 and it just made me look insane.
08:46 And I passed four police officers
08:48 on my short driving into town and back,
08:50 I realize the devil setting me up
08:51 for a really dumb fall here, I am gonna go jail for...
08:54 So I come back home and the shadows--
08:56 as I pull up underneath streetlights
08:58 they are getting dim and dark
08:59 and as I turn my head
09:00 the shadows are moving slowly behind.
09:02 They are not behaving normally and they are taunting me
09:06 and I'm just you know, panic.
09:07 And so I think I got to call someone
09:08 or call the pastor or call my mom.
09:10 I called my mom, that's who I call.
09:12 And I called her and I said,
09:13 mom, I am under attack by the devil, pray for me.
09:15 And she just started praying so powerfully
09:17 and I just started crying, you know,
09:18 because now I had an accountability partner.
09:20 Now I can repent to God because mom's asking for me
09:23 and it meant something this time.
09:25 I wasn't so much a person
09:26 who could have been a gay activist
09:28 but I told my parents when I came back
09:30 I can be an activist for Jesus Christ
09:32 and if that means that I loose my life that way
09:35 I couldn't think of a better way to go.
09:38 And you know, that--
09:39 what an incredible saying this as you know,
09:40 what I am so passionate about this
09:42 and who God is and vindicating His name in this issue
09:46 that I can't shut up, I can't stop.
09:49 But here's the caviar to that, I hope this doesn't happen.
09:53 But I like to put this out there
09:55 for people to think about today.
09:56 Don't put me-- this is not about Wayne Blakley,
09:59 this is about Jesus Christ.
10:01 And Wayne Blakley is still human,
10:03 he's still fleshly, he's still tempted.
10:06 What if I had a fall?
10:08 Are you gonna run from me or you gonna run to me?
10:10 Run to help. Yeah.
10:16 Powerful, powerful.
10:18 And so contemporary and so now
10:21 and so wired world is and so what is needed
10:25 by society around us and in the church.
10:27 You got people who on their knees praying
10:28 and then getting up and doing some really dark stuff
10:30 because Christ never got through him and gotten in.
10:34 So we see that against other's hope
10:37 because if they can get heal, hey, I can get heal too.
10:40 You know, and we-- and you know
10:41 that we get those emails all the time.
10:42 We get I think people saying you know what,
10:45 I was exactly right there and heard you guys speak that.
10:49 And so somebody says, why do we do this program?
10:51 Why do we these shows? Why do we do these testimonies?
10:55 Are you kidding me?
10:56 Everywhere I go there are these wounds
10:59 and the only thing that's gonna get us out of that
11:01 is if we start saying to each other,
11:02 you know what, I've been there.
11:04 And this is what God did in my life
11:06 or this is where I am at right now.
11:07 And if we keep saying that out loud
11:09 then the world gets a message
11:10 that God is still doing miracles
11:11 and so is able to bring you out of those things.
11:13 You know, it's here, Cheri.
11:14 In my first church I pastored a fellow,
11:17 big guy, 6'5", 200 something pounds,
11:19 have this very thin, simple wife
11:21 who was uneducated when he married her.
11:23 He brought her to the States,
11:24 she went to school got her BS in nursing
11:26 and got her Masters in nursing
11:28 became a nurse practitioner, sharp.
11:31 So she wasn't the woman he married,
11:33 he married a servant.
11:34 He married somebody cook his food,
11:36 clean his clothes.
11:37 Now he's got a nurse practitioner
11:40 who's a sharp mind, much--
11:41 when he's thinking about it she's already said it.
11:43 So he resorts to violence,
11:45 he's wrapping her in the phone chord
11:47 and beating her with the plastic receiver
11:48 and all that kind of stuff.
11:49 And as a young pastor I simply was not equipped,
11:51 I didn't know.
11:52 And her dad was saying, well, this is your cross,
11:54 you got to stay there
11:55 and take that, that kind of thing.
11:56 And you know you get all this kind of stuff.
11:57 So there are people out there in churches
12:00 who are dealing with this stuff
12:02 and don't have answers as just-out-of-school
12:05 freshman pastor I didn't-- I didn't have the skills.
12:09 So this is very necessary and very powerful
12:11 and very important to what's going on today.
12:13 Amen. Yeah.
12:14 And you know when we do that the skills
12:16 we are good at it.
12:18 We are good at loving each other
12:19 when we know what to say
12:20 because we want to say the right thing
12:22 and we want to do the right thing.
12:24 You know, we talked about
12:26 all the different folks in this program
12:28 and I want to go over again
12:30 that we're doing a health message,
12:31 we're looking at it from a health perspective
12:33 because there are stages in recovery.
12:36 And we've talked about that before in the program,
12:38 there's you know, there's this stage of coming in
12:41 and just seeing you as you are looking at it
12:43 and trying to bargain with God.
12:45 You know what, if you get me out of this one,
12:47 I'll never do it again or whatever.
12:48 So there's initial one, if you get me out of this one
12:51 I'll take care of my liver,
12:52 if you find another liver for me
12:54 I'll be good, I won't drink.
12:55 But we do that whole bargaining thing
12:57 and then we step out and we try to educate ourselves
12:59 on the addiction and I'm what--
13:01 what has to our body and what's happen to us
13:03 so with our disconnect.
13:05 And then the next stage is that I may make comments
13:07 with the people around at me.
13:09 I may call up and say, you know what,
13:11 I am sorry that I ripped your car off, you know,
13:13 I am sorry that I slept with your wife or whatever,
13:15 I'm sorry about all that kind of stuff.
13:17 We do that on the stage and make it immense.
13:20 The next stage is we start to look out
13:22 maybe how our past has influenced us,
13:26 maybe what I learned, like Ralph Sanchez,
13:28 when he watched his dad beat his mom.
13:30 I learned some pretty twisted things
13:32 and so I start to look at that.
13:33 And in the final stage, the maintenance stage
13:36 is I start to take care for myself in establish,
13:39 a life worth celebrating, a life worth living.
13:42 And so maintenance part of that,
13:44 all of the part of recovery is important
13:47 but we forget that last part of it,
13:49 it say-- And that is simple stuff,
13:51 exercising, eating right, doing the things
13:53 that we're talking about on this program, drink water.
13:56 Do you know most of time
13:57 if you see me drinking anything it's water,
13:59 I don't drink sodas, juices, any of that kind of stuff
14:02 because I really found out
14:04 that if I am thirsty I can drink water
14:06 and it's not only gonna heal me
14:09 but it's gonna help me to think better,
14:11 my body to function better, all those kind of things.
14:14 And so maintenance part of our recovery
14:16 is to do the right thing.
14:18 Take piano lessons, take out lessons,
14:21 learn how to play golf, hit a bicycle,
14:23 I mean, all of that kind of stuff.
14:25 And so this is the time
14:26 when I am done looking at all that stuff,
14:28 I am starting to now look at what do I want.
14:30 The integrity issue came on, you know.
14:33 Yeah. Who am I really?
14:34 And if I am not that really,
14:36 what steps do I take in order to be that, you know.
14:40 If you not-- and who are you fooling?
14:42 You know, the Lord knows and you know in your heart
14:43 so why even waste the energy,
14:46 consume that you playing that game?
14:48 Just get real and get clean.
14:50 Is it harder to get clean
14:53 or once having gotten clean, to stay clean?
14:57 It's a good question.
14:58 But you know they say that-- and somebody says,
15:00 what do I do so I don't relapse?
15:03 And the answer to that is do absolutely nothing
15:05 and your pain will takeover and you will relapse.
15:09 Your dysfunction will takeover if you do absolutely nothing.
15:13 And so the main it says, is that the next step
15:16 if I am going to hold on to this
15:18 I have to learn to live my life in a healthier way.
15:22 And most of us don't know how to do that.
15:24 So it is harder to do that.
15:26 But in a sense it's so much more rewarding
15:28 because I all the sudden sit up straighter,
15:31 my relationships are more real.
15:33 When I laugh I hear myself
15:35 and it shocks me that it's so cool, it's so real.
15:38 And so that's the part of maintenance
15:39 that is worth fighting for is everybody wants a real life.
15:42 We all want to be normal,
15:44 we all want to have happiness or whatever.
15:47 What if this is way to get that?
15:50 It's huge. Yeah.
15:51 You can get used to misery
15:53 just because it's the known for you
15:55 because you did it for so long
15:56 but nobody wants to be miserable.
15:59 They want to be clean, they want to be happy.
16:01 It's just, I don't know the tools, I don't how.
16:04 And I think that's why this program
16:05 with over these nine seasons has been so valuable
16:08 because if we heard something
16:09 from the consumer, from the audience is,
16:11 I see that there are others and I see their path
16:14 and it let's me know that there's a path for me.
16:16 And if that's the only thing it does
16:18 that it is of inestimable value
16:21 because it shows other there's a way out.
16:24 And I am gonna fight to get that, I am doing it.
16:26 So the next role I love.
16:29 You know, there's Adam, Jim and Fran.
16:32 And so Adam, the first time I meet him,
16:35 we're talking away and it's just all good
16:37 and he's a gangster
16:38 and you could-- not typical background
16:41 but a typical background for a gangster.
16:44 You know, watching his mom getting beat,
16:46 not been able to help his mom, he's just a small child.
16:49 And then he says one day I'm--
16:51 if fighting with somebody and he got really vicious.
16:54 But one day fighting with somebody
16:55 and I looked at him and said, you know what,
16:57 tonight one of us is gonna die.
16:59 He hasn't killing someone.
17:00 And at that point I don't even know
17:02 what to say at that point.
17:03 But his joy of getting back to a point
17:07 where he becomes human again and can feel remorse in
17:10 any kind of way is absolutely amazing.
17:13 Jim talked about trying to kill himself
17:16 and he quoted suicide for years.
17:18 His only hope was in death because he knew
17:21 that death was gonna give him the way out,
17:22 the break that he needed.
17:24 And then Fran, my favorite.
17:26 Fran is our creative director at True Step Ministries
17:29 and she is so normal its ridiculous.
17:31 We put-- you put us together and she's been
17:34 she was born and raised in this incredible home,
17:36 she had-- she's the leader of our church.
17:39 She is the woman who does everything well.
17:41 She can do a sermon that will knock your socks up.
17:44 And then I found out in my interactions with her
17:48 that she's a religious addict and in denial
17:50 and she has to break that denial.
17:52 And I watch her do that.
17:55 And she's the one that I told you,
17:56 she's Bob's wife and she said,
17:57 you know what, maybe the cross was over killing on my behalf
18:01 because I didn't need the blood of Christ.
18:04 And so her coming back and needing that,
18:05 absolutely powerful program.
18:08 And I want you to enjoy this rolling.
18:09 But this-- these three really got to me.
18:13 Well, all of them got to me. Just enjoy.
18:20 I got real violent, really, really violent.
18:22 I just-- because all I felt from the moment
18:27 I woke up until the moment I went to sleep was hate.
18:30 I used to like sleeping because it was the only time
18:32 I can get rest from myself, other than that being high.
18:38 And so I really look forward to go and sleep in day
18:41 but I just-- I was so angry, and I grew up in you know,
18:46 in a place where that was okay.
18:48 It was okay to be violent.
18:49 It was okay to be you know, just go out there
18:55 and have the attitude that killer bee killed.
18:58 So explain that, some people they're gonna have no idea
19:00 what you are talking about
19:01 and some people they know exactly
19:03 because they've grown up in the same place.
19:05 Just growing up in a lower class neighborhood,
19:07 that's how everybody was.
19:09 You had to survive.
19:11 I get on a school bus, we lived in a well community,
19:14 the nearest ambulance was 30 miles north of me,
19:16 the nearest ambulance--
19:17 excuse me, hospital is 80 miles south,
19:19 it was nothing but woods and cow pastures
19:22 and so there wasn't a lot of people around.
19:24 I knew when I was gonna die, I knew where I was gonna die,
19:27 I knew how I was gonna die.
19:28 So I had that all planned out.
19:30 I got off the school bus, the bus driver said,
19:32 have a great weekend and drove away.
19:35 I went inside, I initiated my suicide plan,
19:38 I went into my bedroom, I wrote out my suicide note.
19:41 I grabbed my report cards, I went into the bathroom,
19:44 I got a drink of water
19:45 and I look at myself into mirror
19:46 and I'm thinking, I am looking at a dead person.
19:49 I remember looking at my eyes knowing
19:50 that I am gonna be dead within the hour.
19:52 I went into where the guns were kept,
19:55 I pulled out a 22 caliber rifle.
19:57 People sometimes have made fun of me, they've said,
19:59 why don't you used a larger gun,
20:00 you really didn't want to die.
20:02 Because that was the only gun
20:03 that I can smuggle out of the house.
20:05 If someone had not been at home
20:06 I would certainly used the larger gun.
20:09 I mean, that was how intense I was.
20:11 I had to admit that in my prayer time
20:16 there's never anyconfession, almost never.
20:20 I could think of anything to confess.
20:22 I mean, occasionally I have critical time
20:24 or sometimes I'm impatient.
20:27 I've never seen that. And-- Yeah.
20:30 I mean, so once in a while
20:31 there's some small thing to confess
20:33 but generally there's not.
20:34 And for-- if I were honest I would have to admit
20:38 that for me the cross felt like overkill.
20:44 So what do you mean by that, the cross felt like overkill?
20:46 Like did you have to actually go that far?
20:49 God had to pour out all of heaven
20:52 and Jesus had to die
20:53 because I am sometimes impatient?
20:56 You got to be kidding me. Wow.
20:58 That's worth-- I mean,
21:00 I don't think I had ever said that to myself consciously
21:03 but when I was really honest
21:05 looking inside that's what I saw.
21:09 Wow. Very powerful story.
21:12 Explain to me, Cheri,
21:13 you use the term before, religious addiction.
21:16 You know, religious addiction,
21:18 and I just say with that Fran says
21:20 what she calls it approval addiction.
21:22 And so what-- from the time she was little
21:25 she realizes she wasn't the cool kid,
21:26 that she never fit all that kind of stuff.
21:28 Even that her prom date asked someone else to go
21:32 and she thought that okay,
21:34 because I am putting the prom on.
21:35 You know, they're just enjoying
21:37 there in the dance, I am putting it on.
21:39 And she would do things, she was the smarter kid,
21:42 she was the one that-- was more together.
21:44 I know what I am saying,
21:45 I can actually run things and put things on
21:47 and organize things and so I don't have to worry about
21:52 or get in touch with how lonely I am,
21:54 how much I've missed.
21:56 And so she went from that to running proms
21:59 and that kind of stuff to being the best in religion.
22:02 She could give the best sermon,
22:03 she could give the best
22:04 as far as unfolding the scripture.
22:07 She can do so well, C.A., that you would say to her
22:09 after she was done with the sermon is like
22:11 how did you get all of that from that verse.
22:14 Good on you.
22:15 But she does it in order to get that, good on you.
22:19 That's amazing.
22:20 And not that she consciously does it
22:22 but religion and work and those kind of things
22:25 really get her to where she doesn't feel her need
22:29 for interaction towards connection.
22:30 So real need then is approval
22:32 and the vehicle to get that is doing religious stuff
22:35 so people say, oh, you are really, really great.
22:38 That kind of stuff. Exactly.
22:39 And not even realizing that.
22:41 And which really interesting a better religious addict
22:44 is when you break denial on that
22:46 is that you feel some sense of, did I use God?
22:49 No, no, no. You were that-- our damage is so intense.
22:54 Why we chose addictions are so intense
22:56 that we will choose whatever works.
22:58 And religion works for some people
23:00 but it's not gonna work for long if it's not real.
23:02 And God said, let me break denial
23:04 not to cause you pain but just to make it real.
23:07 With the religious addict, their children usually act
23:11 just like drug addict children.
23:12 They'll start drinking, they'll start running away,
23:14 they'll start doing all that stuff.
23:15 And Bob and Fran kids had all that,
23:18 they got in trouble in that way.
23:19 And so even thought it was religiously looking all good
23:23 is why the kids acting out.
23:25 Well, because it's addictive.
23:27 I think we can see, Cheri,
23:29 that this is a powerful series of programs
23:32 that really follows into trajectory of the eight years
23:36 have preceded as far as Celebrate
23:38 Life in Recovery is concerned
23:39 but also take us into a new level, a new arena
23:43 and not just-- I am not gonna do this,
23:45 I am not gonna go back but I am gonna forward
23:47 in a very strong and positive way.
23:49 And it really think about, I am gonna think about it.
23:51 I am gonna intentionally structure my life
23:55 in a way that I can maintain my recovery.
23:58 Intentionally I am gonna get up.
24:00 And it's ridiculous when I think--
24:01 when I talk to health nuts
24:03 they say, get up and drink a couple glasses of water
24:05 in the morning and I am thinking,
24:06 I don't want to, I want a pastry, give me a donut.
24:09 You know what I mean?
24:10 But if I do that I am in trouble.
24:12 So even when I don't want to do the right thing
24:15 I am gonna do the right thing
24:16 because I'm finally understanding and knowing
24:20 that if I am gonna do long term recovery
24:22 I am gonna have to change not only the desires
24:25 to do the wrong thing, I am gonna change
24:27 the desires of what tastes good,
24:29 what is good, all of that kind of stuff.
24:30 Yeah. Yeah.
24:31 And not to get preachy but 1 John 1:9 comes to mind.
24:34 I was talking to some the other day.
24:36 If we confess our sins
24:37 He's faithful and just to forgive.
24:38 Well, forgive is good, and it's necessary.
24:40 But if He left you there
24:42 He haven't done anything for you.
24:45 And to cleanse from all unrighteous.
24:47 So I get forgiveness then I get cleaned up.
24:49 And that's what this occurs to me
24:52 is that we got the forgiveness,
24:54 we got to pass other way now I need to get clean
24:56 so I can go on in the future.
24:58 And that's crucially important.
25:00 We're gonna take a break, come back for the close.
25:02 And you know what,
25:03 I think we just need to wrap all this up
25:05 because it's good stuff and I am gonna
25:06 sound like your momma when we come back.