Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Buddy Williams, Bryan Myers, Lemuel Vega
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000106A
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:10 Welcome to "Celebrating Life in Recovery."
00:12 I'm Cheri your host.
00:13 We're gonna talk to two guys on this program
00:16 that has spent a good portion of their life in prison
00:19 and now they are going back in
00:21 and grab and hold of anybody who will listen.
00:24 It's gonna be cool.
00:54 Welcome back.
00:55 Today we're gonna be talking about some pretty heavy stuff.
00:59 We're gonna over some testimonies.
01:00 We're gonna listen to how God stand somebody up in ministry.
01:04 I am really excited that who is here
01:06 we're gonna interview Buddy, we're gonna interview you.
01:09 And thank you for being on the program,
01:11 and also Bryan who works with you.
01:13 But before we get there, I want to say something
01:15 that's I think really important in our journey.
01:18 Because when I first got into recovery I was serious,
01:22 I looked at all the issues and the fact that I had,
01:25 you know, junk, you know, I had look at and deal with
01:29 and drug addictions and I had to learn how to be social
01:32 and be normal and I am thinking normal,
01:34 I didn't even know what that was.
01:37 But, you know, after little while God looked at me and said
01:40 I really think through the Holy Spirit.
01:42 He said, you know what?
01:43 Are you plan at all,
01:45 you know, are you laughing at all, are you hanging out.
01:48 And He really took the recovery
01:50 and try to put it in perspective for me.
01:52 That we're gonna look at issues
01:54 through your journey with God.
01:55 You're gonna look at things
01:57 and you are gonna have to learn
01:58 different behaviors think different.
02:00 God renews our mind, changes all that kind of stuff.
02:04 But He's really gonna show you how to celebrate too.
02:07 And at the end of the program I want to show you
02:10 something that we put together for the churches.
02:12 Its called "Celebrating Life in Recovery" "Steps to Christ."
02:15 How do you go through all of this junk,
02:17 but remember to have fun, meet people,
02:21 form friendships to all the things
02:23 that God want you to do.
02:24 I took piano lessons, art lessons.
02:26 I ended up on taking biking and cycling and,
02:30 you know, doing stuff with my family.
02:32 And so part of recovery is to learn
02:34 how to do all that kind of stuff too,
02:36 it's not just looking at anger or fear or addition.
02:39 And so as you are doing this,
02:41 put in a lot of time to have fun.
02:45 And I love--I read in a book one time as I talked about it.
02:49 If you're driving down the street
02:50 and you're looking through your front window of the car,
02:54 you have a little rearview mirror, it's tiny,
02:57 but you really do have to look at what's behind you sometimes.
03:00 But if you just focused on that rearview mirror
03:02 you're gonna run into something,
03:04 you know, what I mean.
03:05 And this is same in recovery.
03:06 Now that you are getting your life back
03:08 and you're gonna have a great time doing that.
03:10 Every once in a while you're gonna look at your stuff
03:13 but don't get stuck there.
03:14 Because, you know, God says look at Me.
03:17 I am gonna really-- I am your advocate,
03:19 I am gonna teach you some stuff.
03:20 I am gonna teach you to laugh.
03:22 I am gonna teach you to be normal.
03:23 I am gonna teach you that there is a God in heaven
03:24 that cares about you and He's gonna restore,
03:27 redeem, and stand you up in ways that are unbelievable.
03:31 And so now, Buddy, that brings me to you
03:34 because I have seen just since we met,
03:37 just talking on the phone and meeting today
03:40 as that I have seen God do that in your life.
03:43 And so we're gonna find out who you are and,
03:45 you know, if you need to even start from the beginning
03:48 and then how God stood you up.
03:50 Well, well, I first of all want to say
03:53 I also thank you for allow me to be here
03:56 and it's just a blessing to be able to come and to share.
03:59 And I can definitely relate to a lot of people
04:04 that have lot of issues in their life.
04:06 I started off at a young age and I was--
04:11 had a very loving mother and my father
04:15 though he was a good guy but he was never around.
04:19 He was always locked up in prison in and out and then--
04:24 From the time you were really little?
04:26 Yeah, from the time I was really little.
04:28 So I don't really have a lot of memories of my father.
04:31 He was in and out
04:33 and then I remember a couple of times but,
04:36 you know, like one time I remember,
04:38 he had escaped I didn't know that.
04:40 Then he came around a couple times but he couldn't hang out
04:43 because, you know, the police were looking for him.
04:46 Then another time, you know,
04:48 he was finally arrested and then back in.
04:52 And then another time I remember he was on the run
04:55 and I'd never see him that time.
04:56 Well, yeah one time when he first left
04:59 he was on the run for like 13.5 years,
05:02 you know, he was wanted for escape and so I--
05:05 And if it sounds like it's really interesting
05:07 as what you said is even though he wanted to be in your life
05:10 he couldn't, because he knew that he couldn't show up
05:12 somewhere that was so obvious--
05:14 Right, and he made--right and he made some mistakes,
05:18 you know, so he couldn't come around his own family
05:21 he wanted to, but he couldn't.
05:22 Did you visit him in jail?
05:25 One time when I was kid,
05:27 I remember once like most places,
05:30 no--we, I didn't get to go see him.
05:33 But like I said, I was really little
05:35 and he took off and escaped
05:37 and I was just really like two-years-old,
05:40 when I first knew. Yeah, really young.
05:42 Yeah, two and three and four in that age
05:44 and then he escape for, he was going for 13.5 year,
05:49 so I've never got to, you know, see him then
05:52 but I think one time when he first took off,
05:55 a couple times he was in and out you know hiding.
05:58 But my mother she raised three of us,
06:02 me and my brother and sister and she did best she could.
06:05 She got saved, found the Lord
06:07 when I was about eight-years-old.
06:09 So before then, you know, the life
06:12 that I remember it wasn't very good,
06:15 you know, I was definitely just heard trying to raise us and,
06:19 you know, he was in and out
06:20 and then she raised us by herself, she worked hard.
06:24 God comes in the picture and the home is actually safer.
06:28 Yes. More stable.
06:29 Yes, and she's trying to do her best and work
06:31 and support three kids and is really hard over,
06:34 but she did very well and she got saved
06:37 like when I was about eight.
06:38 So then we started going to church.
06:40 You know, and that's at the age of 11
06:46 probably right around there I was in fifth grade,
06:49 the summer the fifth grade.
06:51 First time I really remember actually using myself I started,
06:55 you know, I smoked cigarettes already
06:57 but then I started smoking marijuana
06:58 and then it went on to other things
07:01 and before you knew that I was--
07:03 A lot of people will say fifth grade, no way.
07:06 But, you know, it's amazing to me how many really young kids
07:10 start to use especially like smoking
07:13 just experimenting with stuff.
07:15 Yes. And I started earlier
07:16 and I know many people start way before that age,
07:19 you know, but I started then and then before you know it,
07:23 you know its causing problems because my mother is real strict
07:27 and I would be sneaking out of the house
07:30 me and my little brother,
07:31 you know, I was a bad influence on him
07:33 'cause he's three and half years younger than me
07:35 and he's trying to follow me you know.
07:37 And so he started earlier than me, you know.
07:40 So I am doing things I shouldn't
07:43 and then for you know, what,
07:45 you know, I am getting in trouble.
07:46 I went to jail I was like 15.
07:49 I went 15 or 16 I went to the jail for the first time
07:53 but I was so out of it.
07:54 They thought that I had overdosed on something
07:57 because I was, you know, coming to.
07:59 And so they ended up taking me to the hospital
08:02 and they were gonna pump my stomach
08:03 but I guess they found out that I was just drunk.
08:05 I drink so much, you know, when I was
08:09 because I would always have to hurry and get home.
08:11 Everybody else could hang out but not me.
08:12 My mom is strict, so I had to get home so I thought
08:15 man, if I hurry and drink all this real quick
08:17 then I'll go home but see if you drink it too quick
08:20 then you can't function at all and that's what I try to do.
08:22 When you get toxic
08:24 I mean, you really actually poison ourself
08:25 and we don't even know it.
08:27 Yes, I should have been dead many times
08:28 just from the alcohol poisoning because I did it all the time.
08:31 So at early age I became drinker, you know.
08:34 I want to hang out with the crowd
08:36 and the people that I thought was cool I did what they did.
08:39 And so I started at early age
08:40 and I was hanging out with older people
08:42 and that became a problem
08:44 because where I was from
08:46 Wabash, Indiana is where I'm from
08:49 and they started early.
08:51 There are lot of kids and I was just
08:53 hanging out with the wrong crowd
08:54 and I can't blame them but I chose to do what they did.
08:59 And then at early age I started getting in trouble
09:01 and I got in trouble another time for drinking
09:06 and then it went on, in and out for drinking.
09:07 So in and out of jail and juvenile, all that kind stuff?
09:10 Yeah juvenile, I ended up going to boy school
09:13 and then it was just internally for drinking,
09:16 you know, being a problem child I was what I became.
09:20 And so my mother she couldn't really do much with me.
09:25 She got married, you know, to my step dad
09:29 and he was real strict and so it was real strict in our home
09:32 and I was real rebellious.
09:34 You know, I wanted to do things my way
09:36 and I choose to do with my way so I got it my way.
09:39 I ended up going to prison.
09:41 Well, first of all
09:44 alcohol and drugs centers.
09:46 Buddy, I've to say that it's interesting
09:48 what you just said is like,
09:49 you know, I wanted to do it my way and I got it my way.
09:52 And so all of the consequences
09:53 for everything that you were doing
09:55 all the sudden its right there in your hands.
09:57 Okay now I'm in jail
09:58 and I am having to deal with all of this kind of stuff.
10:01 Right, so I ended up saying and thinking that I thought,
10:06 man, I don't want to go by these rules, I want to have fun.
10:08 Everybody else gets to go out and do all these, why can't I?
10:11 But my mom is a loving mother and tried to raise me right.
10:13 And she tried to raise me by the word.
10:15 And I just chose to rebel
10:17 because I wanted to be like everybody else.
10:19 So I was in and out
10:21 and then I went to couple treatment centers
10:24 to try to get away from prison.
10:25 I wasn't there to be serious
10:27 and I did the steps I tried the steps,
10:30 you know, but I wasn't opened up,
10:32 I didn't let it in my heart enough, you know.
10:34 I wasn't really ready.
10:36 You were just playing the system.
10:37 I was trying to play the system
10:39 because I didn't want to go to prison,
10:40 you know, and I was getting high there.
10:42 I was going on passes and came back and selling weed there,
10:45 you know, I was not serious.
10:47 And as soon as I was out,
10:49 you know, I mean the day I got out,
10:50 you know, I am drinking, you know, I was not serious.
10:53 I mean I was doing things in there even.
10:55 So anyway I ended up going on to prison,
10:59 I ended, soon as I got out of the drug centers
11:01 I would I ended up in prison then back out
11:04 as soon as I get out, I was back there.
11:05 What were the charges when you were going in and out,
11:07 because it sounds like you weren't robbing
11:09 or stealing or doing all that kind stuff.
11:12 Yeah, well first of all it's just alcohol,
11:15 you know, in the jail I was always just for alcohol.
11:17 But yeah, it came to where I started stealing for my habit.
11:21 I started just burglary,
11:23 you know, I wasn't robbing with the gun or nothing but,
11:26 you know, to me I say, this is all petty things
11:28 but you know it is serious.
11:30 I was stealing things and burglary,
11:32 so I, you know, I would go to prison
11:34 I was in there like two, three times
11:36 just for like theft, burglary, a bunch of burglaries.
11:40 And but while I was in prison,
11:42 while I was in jail my mindset was still to do the same things.
11:46 I still want to get high, you know,
11:48 and that's all my mindset was, was just to get high.
11:52 You know, it would-- I had a lot issues in my life
11:55 and if I got high it just kind of escaped everything else.
11:58 I didn't have to think about everything else.
12:00 Everything was okay.
12:01 Yeah, I didn't have to be responsible.
12:02 I just, you know, I would just get high
12:05 and then I would--
12:07 when I come down I get high again if I could.
12:09 So I was constantly even in jail
12:12 trying to think of a way to get high.
12:13 How do I get high? How can we get this in here?
12:17 You know, so we would always scam and try
12:19 and what we usually accomplish a few things and,
12:22 you know, we get in there and tried to escape, you know.
12:27 What's really interesting
12:28 as for some purchase is that even in prison
12:31 you've got somebody trying to make wine out of the fruit
12:33 and I mean that you were literally--
12:37 you can get high wherever you want it, get high.
12:40 I mean, it doesn't matter that you're behind bars,
12:41 doesn't matter about all that kind stuff.
12:44 And you know I want to ask you because it's interesting to me
12:48 that coming down was not okay with you.
12:52 Being a normal, being in your right mind was not okay,
12:56 you just you know, I don't want to be clear headed.
13:01 I don't want to be normal,
13:02 I feel better when I've got drugs or alcohol in me.
13:06 I socialize better, I have more fun
13:10 and that's what we really tell ourselves
13:11 especially I think coming from a home
13:13 where you know, everything is crazy
13:15 and dad's gonna all that kind stuff is that,
13:18 you know, we want to feel better.
13:20 Yes, and that is so true.
13:22 But mainly for me it's just
13:25 that's what I would do just to escape
13:27 I didn't have to think about my problems.
13:29 I didn't have to think about not be in home.
13:31 I didn't have to think about all that.
13:33 You know, so I was,
13:35 you know, in school I just started at young age
13:37 and even at school I was doing,
13:39 you know, I went to school to get high
13:41 because my mom was so strict,
13:42 I didn't want to stay home I want to go to school.
13:45 So I go to school because there was party to me you know.
13:48 Anyway when I ended up going to prison
13:50 you know I was for stealing and burglary
13:53 and I ended up doing like few months here few months there
13:56 then it went to--I did almost three years straight and--
14:01 But every time I got out, you know, I would go right back
14:05 because I was doing the same old things.
14:06 I was never out very long.
14:09 I ended up getting like us 16 year sentence
14:13 two, eight years sentences in Wabash run in while
14:17 constantly we have to do one sentence then the next.
14:20 And I mean they're doing the same thing
14:23 because I learned at early age with the people I hung out with.
14:26 I would go to prison I would know--
14:28 I would hook up with the people that I knew
14:30 and they were doing those type of things.
14:31 So that's what I will do, that's what I need to do.
14:34 I learned early how to hustle in there and,
14:36 you know, how to get by and, you know, so I did that,
14:39 you know, I would try to manage things
14:41 to where, how can we get this in?
14:43 How can I get high?
14:44 How can I get money?
14:46 And that's the way I lived in.
14:49 For people that are not educated,
14:52 you know, it's oblivious that there are drugs
14:54 and that kind of alcohol in the prison system.
14:57 How normally, how common is that?
15:01 This very common especially years back well I was there,
15:04 I've been out six years now,
15:06 but while I was in there, it's very common.
15:09 That's what people did then you know, it may be,
15:11 they might have tighter hold on it now in most places.
15:15 But back then it was real common and,
15:18 you know, if you it's--
15:19 there is many different ways to get drugs in there
15:22 and that's just what we did.
15:23 We hustle whatever you can.
15:25 And I was addicted to that lifestyle even
15:29 and I just-- that's what I did.
15:30 Talk about that a bit,
15:32 because it's not that's not a chemical addiction,
15:34 but the addiction to the lifestyle is huge.
15:36 Most of us don't see that into way into recovery.
15:39 Right I-- 'Cause I like to hustle.
15:43 Yeah, I love that lifestyle, I loved to hustle.
15:46 I loved to be around that type of environment
15:48 that type of people that were doing those things.
15:50 And especially if you're hustling
15:52 and you have like if you got the stuff,
15:56 you know, you got power too.
15:57 You know and there's something with that power,
15:59 there's something that you just think,
16:01 man, I got, you know, I can do about anything I want in here
16:04 you know, because I know lot of people
16:06 wouldn't understand this but prison used to be fun.
16:09 You know, we would say, man, it isn't so bad
16:11 so the consequences if prison is so fun when we get out,
16:15 well, it wouldn't bother us to go do these things we use to do
16:18 because the consequences isn't that bad.
16:20 You go to prison, you go,
16:21 you're going there and you stay high everyday.
16:23 I mean you get drunk a lot,
16:25 you know, and you do these things that you can do.
16:28 You can do a lot in there that you did out there.
16:31 Even in that lifestyle is that when somebody says,
16:34 oh, you went to prison wow it's like a--
16:37 it's almost like batch of honor in some places.
16:40 Yes, a lot places. And so it's like--
16:43 it's a whole different mindset,
16:45 it's a whole different way of looking at it.
16:47 You get kind of little bit more respect,
16:51 you know, because I've been in, I've been in 10 times, 5 times
16:55 whatever but it's something that you actually get respect for.
17:00 Yes, and a lot people thing it's cool, you know.
17:03 And they think, man, you've been in prison and they go
17:06 and they think it's cool because they've been there.
17:08 So they get out and the people there around,
17:10 they just think its cool and it's definitely not cool at all.
17:14 And but I ended up is all these little things
17:19 that I say or little things that I did, they all added up
17:23 because, yeah I got felony here and I got a felony there
17:27 and then you get arrested again
17:28 and you're just trying to get the best
17:30 till you can with the system
17:32 and you got to fair of those felonies add up
17:34 because if you get three
17:36 which I had few then you can't get such good deal
17:40 because habitual comes into play.
17:42 So I'm in and out and I go in like three or four times
17:46 and then I get in trouble
17:47 while I'm in there for attempt to escape from the jail
17:51 and I ended up getting a four year sentence for that
17:53 and conspiracy to escape.
17:56 And so I'm always seems like I'm always into something
18:00 and then the next day, you know, I'm out,
18:02 I'm only out few days every time
18:04 but the last time I got out I was out five and half months
18:08 and that's the most I've been out since I was 17-years-old.
18:12 I've been out six months at that time.
18:14 So I'm out and I'm doing the same old thing.
18:16 You know, I mean I was in there doing it.
18:18 How you gonna quit out there
18:19 if you don't quit while you're in there.
18:21 So I get out, I'm out just a few days
18:24 like I said five and half months
18:26 I ended up getting in some more trouble
18:28 for a robbery that happened and some thefts, some things.
18:32 Anyway so I go back into the jail.
18:35 I'm still doing the same, having the same mindset,
18:38 I ended up at that time that's when I got the 16 years plus,
18:44 I have parole violations.
18:45 So I go in everything all my buddies were already there.
18:49 I've already been to all these prisons, you know,
18:51 because I got shuffled from this prison to that one
18:53 to that one that one that one,
18:55 you know, just a round of circle.
18:56 None of that is traumatic to you, none of it is big deal.
18:59 I've down this before I am just settling,
19:01 then I'm gonna do my time again.
19:02 I'm just hustling and getting by
19:04 and this is how I'm doing, I'm not thinking about future,
19:06 I'm not thinking nothing but just day-by-day getting high.
19:09 That was my mindset.
19:11 So I ended up going back and everything is already there,
19:13 all my buddies already there, so it's already set up for me,
19:16 so soon as I go in it's on.
19:18 You know, hustling and just constantly taking.
19:22 This my life, this what I do
19:25 and then I ended up while I am in there,
19:27 you know, I am hustling from here to there
19:29 and they just keep moving me to different places
19:30 because I'm under investigation
19:32 and they hear this and hear that,
19:34 but I was never they could never prove it,
19:37 you know, so they would just move me around.
19:39 And so this last time while I was in there,
19:42 I ended up getting in trouble.
19:45 I was at Pendleton Reformatory at the time
19:48 because I'd already got shift from another place
19:49 under investigation for drugs.
19:51 So only way while I am there
19:53 long story short I ended up getting arrested again.
19:57 Good friend of mine was arrested
19:59 for brining in LSD in the visitor room to me.
20:02 And then in the meantime
20:04 I've been under investigation, I didn't know it.
20:07 And a friend of mine that was in there
20:09 sent somebody to a house I had somebody on the street
20:13 holding some marijuana for me
20:16 and keeping some money for me and--
20:19 so he sent his brother over there with the wire on
20:22 and end up setting me up
20:23 and I was arrested from the prison
20:25 selling marijuana on the street from inside.
20:28 So I ended up getting arrested for all that
20:30 and they filled a breach on me
20:32 and since I would not corporate with them
20:34 because you know I was hardheaded
20:36 and that's just the way
20:38 I lived my life, you know, was it.
20:40 I felt like if you do the time, you know, you pay,
20:45 you know, if you do the time you do the crime,
20:47 you know, I mean if you do the crime,
20:49 you do the time, excuse me.
20:50 So you're just saying to them,
20:52 you know, we don't have to play here
20:53 just tell me how much time I have.
20:55 Right, just tell me what I got to do,
20:57 so I am not getting nobody else involved.
20:59 I am not ruining their life and that's pretty much what I did.
21:03 How much time did they give you for that?
21:05 I ended up getting another 20 year sentence
21:08 added on to the other 16 that I already had.
21:12 And so during this time I was just a miserable mess,
21:18 you know, I fought my case for three years.
21:21 I gave the lawyer right around $30,000
21:24 and he was supposed to work this all out
21:26 and I thought man I got it under control,
21:28 I'm gonna be out here soon
21:29 'cause I was about ready to go home
21:31 and I was rearrested, you know, got charges inside,
21:35 you know, for trafficking, and you know LSD
21:38 and that's a serious offence
21:40 and habitual and the marijuana deals, you know.
21:43 So anyway I'm ready to go home, my family is all excited.
21:46 I don't make it home
21:47 I ended up getting more time when I started with.
21:50 So anyway-- Twenty years?
21:52 Yes I got another 20 years sentence.
21:53 That's a long time.
21:55 Yes, but the thing is all that just sound so bad
21:57 and so terrible and you know it is.
22:00 You know because I let myself get into that mindset
22:04 that this is what I'm gonna do get high
22:06 and I didn't focused on nothing else.
22:08 But the thing about it is man the Lord turned that all around
22:12 because I wasn't trying to serve the Lord.
22:14 I wasn't, you know, I wasn't about the Lord.
22:16 That was the last thing on your mind?
22:17 Yeah, I didn't think about, I'll get with him later.
22:19 I'm getting high right now. Man, I'm having fun.
22:21 I only live once so let's do this right.
22:23 This is me, you know, and that was my mindset
22:28 and I got in trouble
22:29 and you know I was moved from this lock up to that lock up
22:32 and I just spend a lot of time not only the 20 years I got
22:36 but also had to loose all my privileges.
22:39 You know, I had to visit
22:40 through a little glass on a phone chain down like a dog,
22:43 you know, looking through my people if I got to visit
22:45 which my people blessed me with visits.
22:48 And everything was taking away from me you know,
22:51 and I lost time inside the prison also
22:53 because they got a time class.
22:55 Anyway I lost time there and then I had to go lock up.
22:58 I got a couple of years in lock up you know--
23:02 I love Buddy, because I know that you're still in your mind
23:05 and initially trying to hustle it trying to play it.
23:07 Okay, what I do now, I'm like locked down,
23:09 I'm on the phone, I got glass,
23:11 but you're still in your mind trying to go to
23:14 how am I gonna deal with all this.
23:16 Right and that was my mind is thinking,
23:19 you know, I am gonna make it out of sudden
23:21 it's gonna work out you know I had it all plan.
23:23 Give him all this money man my lawyer is good,
23:26 handle this isn't a big deal.
23:27 I am cool, I'll keep my mouth shut, man.
23:30 Just whatever I got to do, let's do it.
23:32 And there it didn't worked out like I planned.
23:33 My lawyer kind of worked against me
23:36 and I was supposed to not get much time with all that money
23:39 you know public defender could have got me better than that.
23:42 So he worked against me
23:43 and I ended up getting 20 year sentence
23:45 and then they took everything from me.
23:47 And I decided, you know, the same work
23:51 and this lifestyle I'm living is not fun,
23:53 it's not what I thought is gonna be.
23:54 I want to change my way,
23:56 but man, this is kind of tough here and I'm miserable.
23:58 And the Lord had been dwelling with me
24:00 because I was raised in church.
24:01 Remember from 8-years-old now,
24:03 you know, I was raised in church so I rebelled in,
24:05 you know, going on my way.
24:07 Because I was just thinking as you're talking
24:08 as what is God gonna do to get through to you?
24:11 Right and my mother is there praying
24:13 and I got tons people praying and so the Lord was in control.
24:16 You know He was gonna work it out,
24:18 you know, but I was hardheaded
24:19 and I had to go this route and that route.
24:22 But, man, He had a plan, you know, He had plan for me.
24:25 And so I ended up lost all my privileges like I said,
24:29 I moved from this place to that place
24:30 all the maximum-security places and,
24:33 you know, then one day they just told me to pack my stuff
24:37 and you know I said where am I going they wouldn't tell me
24:41 and I ended up getting moved all the way to Virginia.
24:44 I was about is over by Richmond Virginia, they took me there.
24:48 And you know they just took me
24:51 and moved me up all the prison
24:52 just called interstate compact
24:54 and took me to Virginia, up haul a whole system
24:57 because they said that they wanted to through me off guard
25:00 is what the words they use.
25:02 Because they thought I was still hustling all this
25:04 and doing all this and so they wanted to
25:07 and there was you know they took it personal
25:09 because I wouldn't cooperate
25:11 and so they had move me so I go there
25:13 and I lose all my privileges again.
25:15 You know on the maximum-security.
25:16 Didn't know anybody?
25:18 Don't know nobody, but that's what I needed.
25:20 I needed to get away to works
25:21 because I thought I had to be somebody.
25:23 I thought I had to be cool and I had to hold this reputation.
25:27 But when I got to get away from everybody,
25:30 you know, I'm in a solitary cell
25:32 just with nobody around that I know
25:34 and just got to spend a lot of time to sit and think,
25:37 you know, and say man, this is what I want.
25:39 So they took me to super-max prison there at Level 6
25:43 and they're standing there with guns,
25:44 you know and shooting big rubber bullets
25:46 and these little pellets and I'm around all these people.
25:49 They brought all the lifers
25:50 because they blew a big hole out the mountain
25:53 and put this two super-max prisons there
25:55 and took all their lifers out there prison
25:58 and put them in there and--
26:00 So just said even if you break out
26:01 you just gonna run into a mountain.
26:03 Yeah we're way up in the mountains,
26:05 miles up you know and always hill police,
26:08 you know, down there and they were just opening up this prison
26:11 and they are serious, you know.
26:13 And so here I am.
26:14 I happen to get sent from Indiana
26:17 to there right when they open up these prisons
26:19 and so they raise the point levels,
26:22 you know, because you got it by point system.
26:24 If you got more points more trouble,
26:26 then you go to higher level prison.
26:28 So I just hit at that wrong time.
26:31 You know I got there and they open this up
26:32 they want to fill them up, so they raise the point level.
26:35 You know, so with all my trouble it raised my points
26:39 and it send me to Level 6 super-max prison.
26:42 And while I was there though the Lord knew all the time,
26:45 He knew what He had in mind.
26:47 And when I got there, I was in miserable mess
26:49 you know the buddy above me my guy above me had 3,000 years.
26:55 You know, and guys around me they just had so many years
26:57 and here I am you know little teddy bear,
26:59 you know I got you know I am not real bad person,
27:03 I'm just trying to get high.
27:05 You know, I am just want to get high and that's what,
27:07 that's all I want to do you know, so here I am
27:10 and man, I had to do a lot of thinking while I was there.
27:12 And I looked around, I said is this what I want?
27:15 Because this is my not future, if I can continue to hustle
27:19 because I go full force when I do something
27:21 and I thought real hard about.
27:24 Lord was dealing with me
27:25 and man, I just been, I broke down
27:27 while I was there after I was there while about nine months.
27:30 Man, I just said, Lord here you got me.
27:33 You got me, man, you got me, I give.
27:35 And you know to that is a huge moment
27:38 because everything led up to that moment as I am broken,
27:43 I am done, I can't even carry this anymore.
27:46 I don't want to and I don't want this to be my life.
27:48 Right hunting piece and Lord is--
27:51 You know, if you went to anywhere else
27:53 on the planet other than God.
27:56 They would say so I am so sorry but you got pay your time
28:01 you know that for everything that you did
28:05 but God doesn't do that to us.
28:06 It just an amazing thing is all of the sudden we turn to God
28:10 and what we get from God is
28:12 I am so glad that you have turn it over to me.
28:17 I love you and we'll be okay.
28:20 That's right and I needed Him at that time.
28:23 I was there, didn't know nobody, way away from home
28:26 and I was just-- I was at the end
28:29 you know, I said, man I got to do something.
28:32 Because I could have kept going
28:33 but where was I gonna go
28:35 how much further down can you go you know.
28:38 I'll never make it home or I'll die.
28:40 People when they were in ordeal and dying
28:42 and I am thinking man, that's next for me.
28:44 That is next and I knew it.
28:46 We're gonna take a break
28:47 because I know you brought a friend with you.
28:50 Yes. Also had a similar story.
28:53 I want to hear what Bryan has to say
28:57 and then I want to hear what you guys did with your journey
29:00 after you surrendered to God.
29:02 What does God do next
29:03 because right now it sounds little hopeless.
29:05 You're in a cell, maximum-security prison Level 6.
29:09 What does God do?
29:11 And what's amazing to me about what God does
29:14 as He steps in and changes everything
29:17 even when it appears incredibly hopeless.
29:20 So we will be right back, stay with us.