Participants: Cheri Peters & C. A. Murray (Host)
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000097A
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior.
00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:06 may be too candid for younger children.
00:10 Welcome to "Celebrating Life in Recovery."
00:12 You know C. A., I get emails about this program
00:15 because whenever they see you, they know it's a new season.
00:18 And so we're going into our eighth season,
00:20 this is an incredible amount of stuff to celebrate
00:23 and so I can't wait to share all of that with you.
00:25 So come join us, I am looking forward
00:28 to every single guest this season, it's amazing.
00:58 Welcome to "Celebrating Life in Recovery,"
01:01 season number eight and I can hardly believe it, Cheri,
01:04 we're talking about season number eight.
01:08 This is a very special season,
01:09 a number of milestones will take place
01:12 during the course of this season
01:14 and I'm excited because this is, I think, the first full season,
01:18 if not the second, that you've had your husband,
01:21 sort of, with you in ministry
01:22 and we've seen kind of a little change in you,
01:25 you know, over the time
01:26 that he sort of joined you on this road
01:28 and it's been good for you, hasn't it?
01:29 Well, you know what's really hard about
01:31 having your husband with you?
01:32 As far as-- because I'm pretty strong,
01:33 I'm pretty loud, whatever and people see that.
01:35 But when I'm at home, I'm not.
01:37 You know, when I'm at home,
01:39 I really do submit to him and I think that
01:41 people when they come to our house are surprised at that,
01:44 but when they see us together they're surprised at that too.
01:47 And so as we're stepping out in ministry together
01:49 even when he shares some time with me here,
01:52 you could see the change.
01:53 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
01:55 There where two people that I always wanted to know.
01:57 I want to know what the husband is like
01:58 who married that person. One was Ellen White.
02:01 So I read the biography of James White,
02:03 he was a strong guy in his own way
02:05 and the other one was,
02:06 I want to meet your husband of Cheri Peters.
02:09 So we got to meet him, what a wonderful guy. Thank you.
02:12 Who has joined you in ministry and really complements you well.
02:16 Thank you. A classy guy.
02:17 Yeah, new christain--yeah. And you like him a lot.
02:18 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
02:20 So he does one of the shows with you?
02:22 You know, what was really fun is, we come on.
02:24 I had no idea, other than it's another season
02:26 and we're excited and we're lining people up
02:28 and I walk in and somebody said,
02:30 "This is your 100th program." Yeah.
02:32 And I'm like "Shut up, 100?"
02:35 And, you know, when I thought about that is
02:37 when we started this, what we had in mind
02:40 was that we wanted to help change the lives of people.
02:43 You know, people struggling with addictions,
02:44 especially quietly, you know,
02:46 you don't know what step to make,
02:49 what you're gonna do, all that kind stuff
02:50 and we really wanted to speak into that.
02:52 We wanted to kind of, you know, like in addictives homes
02:56 where nobody talks about the addiction or whatever,
02:58 we wanted to kind of break that out,
02:59 especially in Christianity, especially in the churches.
03:02 And so, but a 100th season.
03:04 I didn't know if we thought we were gonna--
03:07 I don't know what we thought.
03:08 Yeah, we didn't know if we were gonna get through
03:09 the first season, let alone a 100 shows,
03:11 but a number of things.
03:12 I think the first time we talked about sexual addiction,
03:14 I thought somebody was gonna like,
03:16 "I'm sorry, you're out of here."
03:17 We can't do that.
03:18 But everybody was incredible and what I want to say to,
03:23 definitely, people that are watching is that,
03:27 we are here because of you.
03:29 This program is, you know, it started out,
03:33 you know, talking to those in addiction and those that,
03:37 that were struggling.
03:38 I really had-- my heart's cry
03:41 is to say out loud that God is bigger than our issues,
03:43 my heart's cry is to say that there's nothing
03:46 that He can't change or heal.
03:48 And so we were here for that.
03:50 And then the first season we got emails,
03:54 lives being changed,
03:56 everything exactly what we thought,
03:57 people coming out of sexual addictions.
03:59 I gotta say too,
04:01 you know, there's a girl named Tina in Washington,
04:03 incredible meth addict.
04:06 She really was in and out of meth,
04:08 able to hold a job for a while,
04:09 then lost that, teeth falling out,
04:11 all that kind of stuff.
04:13 And we meet her, she starts watching the program,
04:16 she not only jumps into recovery
04:18 but the church falls in love with her,
04:21 raises money, fixes her teeth,
04:23 she runs our recovery program in her church,
04:25 changes this whole little church, this meth addict,
04:28 because of what she sees here.
04:30 So I want to say that this program
04:32 would not even be successful
04:34 if it wasn't for the fact of every person
04:38 that is gaining life that are watching.
04:40 Every person that is sharing this journey with us.
04:42 So in our celebration, I just want to say,
04:45 thank you. Praise the Lord.
04:47 You know, when we began this program,
04:49 a number of things.
04:50 We didn't know really where we were going.
04:53 You came with an idea.
04:55 We didn't know how much control we could exercise over you
05:01 and then we didn't know how much control we should exercise,
05:05 you know, we didn't know where to pull in the reins
05:09 or where to let you go
05:10 and just let you go and be Cheri.
05:12 And I think it developed over the first year
05:16 we saw that God was in control of you,
05:18 so we didn't have to be. Thank you.
05:20 We could relax and sort of breathe
05:22 because the Lord had the reins.
05:24 And the things that should be said were being said.
05:27 And the things that should be touched on lightly
05:28 were being touched on lightly
05:30 and the things that really needed to be promoted
05:31 were being promoted.
05:33 So we saw early on that God was in control
05:35 and that we could trust you with this
05:37 because your experience and the Holy Spirit was guiding
05:41 what was gonna be said and what was gonna be done
05:44 and the kinds of people that came through.
05:45 You think about the 100 shows,
05:47 we've had some wild and crazy people. We did.
05:49 We've had strippers, we've had pastors,
05:52 we've had, you know, we've had just across the board,
05:56 we have people strung out on heroin,
05:58 we have had perfectionist, we've had religious addictions,
06:00 we've had all of that kind of stuff,
06:02 and being able to look at all of those addictions
06:05 and knowing that one thing in common,
06:07 is it separates them from God and from having joy.
06:10 And how do you bridge that separation? Yeah.
06:13 Yeah, yeah and the Lord used you in a powerful way.
06:15 I need to say something to you early on, Cheri,
06:17 because we spent some time together
06:19 in Australia last year ministering. That was a blast.
06:21 And it was really, really powerful.
06:22 And I saw you in a different light.
06:23 We've seen you the manic Cheri,
06:26 you know, there's just the person in control
06:28 and just doing it.
06:30 But I saw you in more of a teaching--
06:33 I want to use the term "professorial,"
06:34 kind of like last year in Australia, where you--
06:37 You're not gonna call me out, are you? No, I'm not.
06:39 There people are like "What? We did what?"
06:42 No, well, you were, you were little more buttoned down,
06:44 you were little more pedagogical, can I say?
06:47 You were educating, you were professorial,
06:50 you know, you just you were teaching young people
06:52 and older ones too, I mean,
06:53 we had big crowds. About addiction.
06:55 And-- about addiction
06:57 and some of the more technical medical aspects
07:00 you drew on your nursing background,
07:02 your medical background, more than I'd seen you before.
07:05 So you kind of switched gears a little bit
07:07 and became a teacher, educator, lecturer more than a host.
07:13 And I saw them accept that from you
07:16 and really be blessed by that
07:17 and I heard the comments, you know kind of thing.
07:19 So God has used you
07:21 and has given you enough breadth and depth
07:24 so that you can come either way,
07:25 if you need to be street, you got that.
07:27 But if you need to be college professor,
07:29 you got that too, so we thank you for letting the Lord
07:31 use your life to touch so many.
07:32 So you know, can I say that
07:35 my dream from the very first moment of recovery?
07:39 I mean, this is in 1979, for a long time is that
07:44 if every single church
07:46 could know the kind of the struggles of the addiction--
07:50 of the addict, know what to say,
07:52 how to welcome people in regardless of what it was?
07:55 And this last year we put together a program
07:58 and I have been teaching on that program
08:00 just because it has been my dream
08:02 and so can I show you what it is? Please do.
08:04 This is, this year we're talking about
08:08 not only "Celebrating Life in Recovery,"
08:10 the television program,
08:11 but we also wrote up a program for the churches.
08:13 And the program for the churches is from our first season
08:18 when we went through "Steps to Christ"
08:19 and we went through what is the foundations of Christianity
08:22 and how does that relate to our sexual addictions
08:25 and drug addictions and our rage and our anger
08:27 and all of that kind of stuff?
08:28 And so we ended up putting a 14-week program together.
08:34 Fourteen weeks, and every week
08:36 you're gonna look at something else, but not so much.
08:39 A lot of recovery programs really believe
08:41 you gotta look at the addiction and keep looking at it.
08:45 And I really think that God told me early on is,
08:47 "I want to teach you to celebrate life,
08:49 I want to teach you
08:51 the step away from all of that kind of stuff
08:52 and let me show you,
08:54 if you haven't been born into that,
08:56 if you hadn't chose-- made the choice that you had,
08:58 how would do you laugh, how do you speak,
09:00 how would you do all that kind stuff?"
09:02 And that's what I'm gonna teach you.
09:03 So not that we don't talk about the issues,
09:05 we actually show a lot of the testimonies in that
09:07 week-to-week program
09:09 that we have interviewed on this program.
09:10 But we go through
09:13 the Steps to Christ as a foundation,
09:16 what is repentance? What is prayer?
09:18 What is forgiveness?
09:19 What is all that kind stuff?
09:21 And I don't know what you're gonna think about this, C.A.,
09:23 but I was reading Steps to Christ
09:26 and I thought, you know, for some of the people I work with,
09:30 this is gonna be too-- the language is not current
09:34 and you know, Ellen White wrote it
09:36 and she's an amazing writer, but she wrote it years ago. Yeah.
09:39 And what's it got to do with recovery
09:40 and can I keep people here in this chapter?
09:44 And then I thought,
09:45 "I'll just put some recovery language in."
09:48 And I didn't realize, as soon as you say that,
09:50 people get nervous.
09:52 They get--yeah. Well, a little scared.
09:54 I called different publishing houses,
09:56 I called Ellen White estates
09:59 and I called n-number of different folks
10:01 and I said, you know, "Can I keep the anointing of it
10:05 and put it into recovery language?"
10:08 And they're like, "Well, it has no copyright on it."
10:12 So you really, you can do that,
10:15 but, ma'am, would you put it everywhere?
10:17 Like, would you write it all over?
10:20 This is Cheri's version of Steps to Christ.
10:22 So I want to say it is my version of Steps to Christ,
10:25 but I was changed by that book.
10:27 So I--you know, so what I did is
10:29 just put that in some recovery language
10:31 and the focus is Foundational Christianity.
10:34 And we've got the DVDs of the testimonies of our program,
10:38 leader's guide telling somebody how to run a group.
10:41 So this is a "How to" kind of manual? Yeah.
10:44 How you can take this into a--in your own church,
10:47 your own home, your own locality?
10:48 You know, they run it in prisons right now.
10:50 They ran it in New Zealand.
10:53 The New Zealand Christian foundation ran it three times.
10:55 And you know Joanne Davies, an amazing woman,
10:58 runs it three times and they had 100 baptisms. Wow.
11:00 She said over 100.
11:02 But you know, I'm just saying 100
11:03 because I like to exaggerate
11:05 and I'm trying to under exaggerate that one.
11:06 But she said over 100 baptisms
11:08 and she said what happened was she thought happened
11:10 what was amazing, is as people came in to the program,
11:14 got that foundational Christianity,
11:16 got to say out loud,
11:18 domestic violence is what we struggle with,
11:20 alcoholism is what we struggle with,
11:22 saying that loud with no shame, asking forgiveness,
11:25 walking through those initial steps,
11:27 she said by the time they came into the churches
11:29 they were healthy church members. Sure.
11:31 And they walked in the door and said,
11:32 "What can we do for you?"
11:34 Instead of "How can we lead the church?"
11:36 Because sometimes we're walking and we're such a mess.
11:38 These guys were not a mess and she said,
11:39 "That's what was so incredible about this program."
11:42 And I thought, you know what, every church should have that,
11:46 you know, instead of coming right into a Bible study,
11:49 let somebody kind of unpack their baggage first.
11:53 And this is a program that literally
11:55 unpacks your baggage first. Yeah.
11:57 In a way that you're not focused on the baggage,
11:59 you focus on foundational Christianity
12:01 but you're not ignoring the baggage either.
12:03 And so to me the 100th episode for the program
12:07 being able to add this resource for the churches,
12:10 I could die now. Yeah, this-- Not yet--
12:14 You know, and I'm not going to but you know what, I could.
12:16 It's just-- it's a good year for me.
12:17 A couple of things, Cheri, that occurred to me,
12:19 one, this is part of the natural evolution of the ministry
12:23 or the program of the ministry.
12:24 I really want to read--
12:26 I've read Steps of Christ any number of times.
12:27 I want to read it with a new language.
12:29 I read it when David Thomas rewrote Desire of Ages,
12:32 that great book and called it Messiah. Right.
12:33 And there were people who were a little leery
12:35 because you're gonna change this 300-year-old language,
12:39 but I think there are those who couldn't wade their way
12:43 because of whatever, couldn't wade their way
12:45 through the Steps of Christ.
12:46 But they will be able to wade their way
12:48 through something which is a little more contemporary,
12:49 which has the same anointing, carries the same thoughts,
12:53 but puts it in contemporary language
12:54 that someone can get through
12:56 and allow it to seep in and change their lives.
12:57 So I'm excited about it--
12:59 And you know just like
13:00 Mr. Thomas that did "the Messiah" is I ended up--
13:04 I'm not a writer in that sense, you know,
13:07 and so what I did is said "Who would I want to do it?
13:11 Who's the writer?"
13:12 And I called somebody that
13:13 I worked with at Pacific Press years ago.
13:15 And I said, "Would you do this for me?"
13:18 And she prayed and prayed and prayed.
13:20 Her name is Sophie Breeze and she put it together
13:22 and she would send it to us and I would write some stuff
13:24 and add some recovery stuff.
13:26 Then I would send it to a friend of mine,
13:27 Danielle Senate in Australia.
13:29 She would write some stuff,
13:30 Joanne Davies has already put something, you know.
13:32 And so it was a whole team that got together,
13:34 it wasn't one person that just sat down and did this.
13:37 And we did it just because it is time.
13:40 Yeah. It is time.
13:41 You know we can do all kinds of education
13:44 with all kinds of programs,
13:45 but if we're not allowing somebody to say out loud,
13:48 "I'm scared." Yeah.
13:49 "I don't know how to get through this,"
13:52 we're in trouble. Yeah.
13:53 You know this season, I'm gonna do a little--
13:56 I thought I was gonna do more teaching
13:59 because I really believe that you know,
14:01 we've talked about you know, coming into detox
14:03 and coming off of drugs
14:05 and doing those kind of first initial steps
14:07 and making sure you surround yourself with people
14:09 and you know, turn it over to God.
14:12 What's the Holy Spirit?
14:13 Where are you gonna find your power?
14:15 Getting into the word.
14:16 We did all that kind of stuff,
14:18 but I wanted this season to talk about,
14:19 you know, there's some core issues,
14:21 some underlying issues that happen to us in addiction,
14:24 that we get trashed.
14:25 And we get trashed really at such a deep level.
14:28 And one of the guys that I had
14:31 heard an interview
14:33 with was a guy named Dr. Archibald Hart out of LA.
14:36 I don't know if you know of him,
14:38 but he wrote a book called "Thrilled to Death."
14:40 Yes, yes, yes, I've got the book.--
14:41 And he's powerful. He is powerful.
14:44 And his--he said there is an epidemic
14:47 right now in the US of people
14:50 that have trashed their pleasure centers in their brain.
14:53 You have a pleasure center and then you have fear
14:55 and love and other kind of-- there's a part of your brain
14:57 that has all that
14:59 and every part of your brain does something different.
15:00 But this pleasure center is a big deal. Yeah.
15:03 And we have, like the Bible says,
15:07 become seekers of pleasure rather than seekers of God
15:10 or lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.
15:13 And so what he talked about
15:15 is that people have literally trashed this pleasure center
15:19 almost like a drug.
15:20 We've stimulated ourselves,
15:22 we've ratcheted things up more and more,
15:25 even sexually we kind of kicked things up.
15:28 All our entertainment,
15:30 our online stuff or socializing 24x7, we're doing gaming.
15:35 Our entertainment is just you know,
15:37 like I'm watching things get blown up,
15:39 and aliens and all that kind of stuff.
15:40 And you know just to-- we just don't know
15:42 how to kind of relax our workaholism where you know,
15:45 we get all these gadgets so we could work less
15:48 and now we're working more.
15:49 I mean, he really talks a lot about that.
15:51 And so this season I invited him to be on the program.
15:55 And he was almost on the plane and then he cancelled.
15:59 Stop, I thought no way.
16:02 So you know, I want to even set it up,
16:04 even though we had to change gears.
16:06 You'll see that throughout each of the programs this season is,
16:09 I wanted to look at, you know, how do you reestablish
16:13 just kind of a normal thing?
16:15 How do you kind of kick back in to a normal life?
16:20 How do I enjoy simple things and friendships
16:23 and getting outside and-- Yeah.
16:25 Very, very, very important.
16:26 One of the things that I saw in this year
16:29 and that I--you just sort of mentioned one of the things
16:31 we need to recover from really is our own inertia.
16:34 You know there's this physical law
16:36 that says the body that's at rest tends to stay at rest,
16:38 the body in motion tends to stay at motion.
16:39 We're all in motion and we need to tap the brakes a little bit.
16:43 You know, we need to recover from our own life.
16:45 And you have some people on this year
16:48 whose lives were spiraling out of control,
16:51 they were just-- their own inertia was just
16:53 pushing them along this path and the Lord had to get in
16:56 and tap the brakes for them in some instances.
16:58 So we see that, that's a very important part
17:02 of this whole recovery thing to stop
17:04 and just take a look at yourself,
17:06 where am I going, what am I doing?
17:07 And let God heal all of those things. Precisely.
17:10 We're gonna see a couple of the programs
17:13 that we did this season.
17:14 Starting with the 100th episode,
17:16 a couple of my friends came in from Australia
17:19 and from California and heard their story
17:21 so I'm hoping you'll enjoy this.
17:23 Especially the first one we celebrated a 100, yeah.
17:26 That is so cool.
17:29 So I want you to know that
17:30 when we come to the end of the program,
17:32 when we do the close like we typically do,
17:34 I'm gonna invite camera people,
17:36 I'm gonna invite the administration,
17:38 I'm gonna invite C.A. who's our producer,
17:40 I'm gonna invite everybody up
17:42 and we are really gonna close this program with a celebration.
17:45 But right now I just want to say thank you,
17:48 thank you, thank you, thank you.
17:50 And keep watching. We're gonna break.
17:53 I'm gonna come back with our guest.
17:54 Our guest today is my husband
17:57 and I love that because you know,
17:59 when we first got married, I thought I had all the issues
18:02 and I thought I was gonna be dealing with a lot of stuff,
18:04 but he's had his own journey
18:06 and he's gonna share some of that with you today.
18:08 He's also a musician.
18:10 He plays in the Philharmonic and I asked him for this program
18:13 where we are celebrating,
18:16 if he would play something for us.
18:17 And he chose a song "To god be the glory."
18:21 Like, how cool is that?
18:22 Because that's exactly the truth in recovery
18:25 as I can't take any glory.
18:26 I'm not smart enough to take the next step,
18:29 but God is faithful in every step I had to take.
18:31 So and they pulled the ultrasound out.
18:33 And I'd had an ultrasound at 12 weeks.
18:35 So I knew what was like to see this little
18:37 you know, funny looking alien thing.
18:40 You know, this little legs moving around and little heart,
18:42 you know, beating and there's no heart beat
18:45 and it was-- I could see the baby,
18:47 but it was just still and I knew, like I'm not stupid.
18:52 This, you know, what's happened but it was like that
18:55 you know, because I had failed a lot of things in my life
18:59 but I thought I would never ever fail at being a mom.
19:03 And--so in-- even though I mean,
19:06 I kind of know that time for you,
19:08 I can imagine what it would feel like
19:10 because you had so much hope.
19:12 Oh yeah, I just stored an old fashioned cradle
19:16 and you know, I was just gonna love this kid you know.
19:20 And I'm saying to the doctor, "Tell me, tell me, tell me."
19:24 And she just was silent and I'm like, "Just tell me!"
19:28 like I yelled at her and she said,
19:29 "I'm sorry, your baby's died."
19:31 Every year, every year first year school,
19:34 first day of school,
19:35 I was over on the smart side and I felt good.
19:37 I had my folder all ready
19:39 because you have to get your paper
19:40 and your folders and your tab, you know English reading,
19:43 spelling, all these little tabs.
19:44 And everything was perfect and beautiful
19:46 and I'm gonna be smart this year, you know.
19:49 And I would sit over on the smart side
19:53 and then by the end of the week
19:56 I was back over here on dumb side.
19:58 And I think some kids even said,
19:59 "You don't belong over here." I said, "yes I do."
20:01 because I knew I was gonna be smart this year.
20:03 And-- Because you had all the stuff.
20:05 Yeah, everything was organized
20:06 and this year was gonna be the year. And--
20:09 You know, I even saw that you cheered up with that,
20:11 that pain is still part of you at times?
20:14 That I'm--I've always tried to fight that my whole life,
20:17 I don't want to be on that side
20:18 and I don't know how to get out of it.
20:22 You know in looking at that clip,
20:24 we were celebrating not so much ourselves,
20:27 we were celebrating the lives that were changed.
20:30 You know, we were celebrating
20:31 the fact that God used the program
20:34 over these past eight seasons to really touch
20:36 and impact lives in a powerful way. Exactly.
20:39 Didn't you get a sense on that day
20:40 that you wanted to like reach in the camera
20:42 and just bring everybody?
20:44 If you've been touched would you be here with us?
20:46 And in my mind I did think of a number of folks
20:49 that have over the years.
20:50 There's a guy named Jamie in Australia that was severe,
20:53 I mean, heroin addict and every time I met with him,
20:56 because we've been to Australia quite a bit
20:58 and they loved the program over there
21:00 and every time I met with him,
21:02 he got--was looking worse and worse and worse.
21:04 And the last time I saw him I just looked at him
21:06 and his wife and said, "You know what?
21:08 I think if I see you again
21:09 and you're not in recovery, you will be dead."
21:12 And he got it and got in recovery
21:14 and he's doing that and I just thought
21:16 "Jamie, you need to be here, you need to be standing here
21:19 and just saying, 'You know, what?
21:21 I may look horrible right now
21:22 but I've been clean for three months.'"
21:24 You know, what I mean?
21:26 How cool is that. It's so amazing.
21:28 So it was an incredible celebration. It really was.
21:31 I was so into it except the only thing complaint
21:35 I have is that incredibly large slice of cake you gave me.
21:38 I'm gonna be celebrating life
21:39 in recovery from sugar addiction. Yeah.
21:42 But it was really good. It was a great day.
21:44 And Brad got to play trumpet. Yeah.
21:46 You know that was fun for me because I just love him
21:49 and it was just a cool time. It was.
21:53 You know when we started this season with even Brad,
21:56 we talked about forgiveness
21:57 and we talked about that this whole thing,
22:00 the underlying theme of this season is that,
22:04 you know, what did you chose to comfort yourself?
22:07 You know, that pleasure center. What did I choose?
22:09 And early on, sometimes we choose our anger.
22:11 And our anger motivates us.
22:13 Sometimes we choose drugs, sometimes we choose sex,
22:16 sometimes its perfectionism, eating disorders, food
22:19 and we're gonna cover a little bit of all of that
22:22 in these different shows.
22:24 But what was amazing to me is being able to look at it is,
22:27 like pay attention to what you chose
22:29 because when you get away from that addiction,
22:32 that little thing that drove you initially is gonna jump up.
22:36 "Hey, did you forget about me?
22:38 I'm the fear that drove you, I'm the anger that drove you."
22:42 And so it's like if you don't address that,
22:45 you're gonna relapse.
22:46 And so being able to say,
22:48 "don't de afraid to address that,
22:49 don't be afraid to say out loud,
22:51 you know, I'm afraid or I'm angry
22:55 or I'm, you know, have all of this junk,
22:57 I've never belonged or whatever."
22:59 Because if you hide those things,
23:01 you will seek pleasure, you'll seek to comfort yourself,
23:04 you'll seek something and most of the time
23:08 we're not smart enough to seek things that are good.
23:10 You know give me a cake.
23:13 You know that's very powerful and we saw that,
23:15 you know, okay, I can see a drunk and say,
23:18 "That guy is a drunk."
23:20 You know, okay, that's his band-aid. Yeah.
23:22 But mine may be judgmentalism or working myself to death
23:24 or you know, so everybody's got a band-aid,
23:26 you need to kind of see what's under there.
23:28 You know, before you just slap a band-aid on it
23:30 see what's going on down there with that wound
23:32 and get some real healing for that.
23:33 And it's very, very important and very, very crucial
23:35 and we saw that in a number if instances this year. Mm-hmm.
23:38 And what's really interesting is if that's not true
23:40 then the Bible is not true. Correct.
23:41 Because Bible says "The best of the best of you
23:43 are like filthy rags" and what God says,
23:46 "But I know that and I delight in you." Yes.
23:49 "I want to show you what it feels
23:51 like to stand up without all the garbage."
23:53 And that's why I think that all of heaven says,
23:55 "Would you just trust me?
23:57 Would you see the heart of God?
23:59 Would you see that fact that I know you?"
24:02 You know, I could imagine, C. A.
24:04 that you know God delights in you.
24:05 I mean, I've seen you kind of ministering to people
24:08 and I think God must be up there and like,
24:10 "I like that guy," you know.
24:12 You know and I know that He feels that way about me
24:14 because He knows where I've come from
24:16 and I think sometimes He just smiles.
24:18 And I think that, that's what we got to know in our addiction.
24:20 The next roll in that we're gonna have
24:22 I think its hysterical because between these three programs,
24:27 I think these guys have done 150 years in prison
24:30 and now they're standing up and trying to figure out
24:34 what drove me initially?
24:36 How do I surrender that?
24:37 And will you help me?
24:41 But he had to stay in hospital for 7 days
24:44 and actually on his day coming home,
24:47 he was supposed to get released this day
24:49 and he was supposed to come home,
24:50 you know, she had a massive heart attack
24:52 and we lost her that day.
24:54 And you were in your early teens.
24:56 Yeah, I was 18 by this time. Wow.
24:59 Yeah, I was 18.
25:01 And so did things get worse for you,
25:06 because you said like in high school
25:07 "I started planning gangs,
25:08 I started doing all that kind of stuff?"
25:11 Then-- I will say it did get worse,
25:13 everything became real to me at that time
25:16 because you know my mother did so hard in taking care of us,
25:21 you know, it was kind of like--
25:22 she was kind of like my refuge and my shelter.
25:25 So I would actually tell myself
25:27 that I didn't ever want to leave the house
25:29 so I didn't really want to take on too much responsibility.
25:32 So when we lost her, it was kind of reality hit
25:36 so hard that I will have to do something in order to,
25:39 you know, take where she left off. Right.
25:44 I got sanction for 5 years for the state of Kentucky.
25:48 I served about two of them before.
25:50 I'm a parole and you know all this emptiness inside
25:54 and I got to say that when I started selling
25:58 cocaine initially, it was because I was starving,
26:01 literaly lto death.
26:03 I would probably have starved on the streets
26:05 if I had not entered into that game at that time.
26:08 Because you were 16, left home,
26:10 didn't have a way to support yourself. Right.
26:12 And so you picked up what you knew. Right.
26:14 And so--but quickly it became something different.
26:19 You know, after the first 3 days of this out-of-town venture,
26:24 there was no longer a matter of doing it for my survival
26:28 because I needed to eat, but now there's--
26:30 and this how quickly it happened.
26:31 It became this quest for to be that guy. Right.
26:36 You know, I saw the potential in it, people liked me,
26:37 I was good at it and overnight I wasn't hungry
26:40 and overnight instead of you know
26:41 trying to get something to eat, I was trying to, you know,
26:44 be the producer of things to eat or something, you know.
26:49 I needed him at that time.
26:50 I was there, didn't know nobody way away from home
26:54 and I was just-- I was at the end,
26:56 you know, I said, "Man, I got to do something."
26:59 Because I could have kept going, but where was I gonna go?
27:02 How much further down can you go, you know?
27:05 I mean, I'll never make it home or I'll die.
27:07 People in there ODing and dying
27:09 and I'm thinking "Man, that's next for me."
27:11 Right. That is next and I knew it.
27:14 I love, you know, that particular segment with,
27:17 you know, those three programs, I thought it was so cool
27:20 because all of these men had been in and out of gangs,
27:24 in and out of the system.
27:25 And I wanted to just talk about Buddy.
27:27 Buddy was, you know, in and out of jail most of his life.
27:30 He was raised by a dad
27:32 that spent most of the time in prison,
27:35 escaped numerous times but couldn't some home
27:38 because of course, the police would go there first
27:40 and so that's kind of how he was raised.
27:43 If he saw his dad, he went into prison and saw his dad.
27:46 And so Buddy, when he gets in the prison,
27:48 the first thing he does is just look around and says
27:51 "How am I gonna get drugs in here?
27:52 How am I gonna deal?
27:53 And people running drugs for him on the street.
27:55 He cops a sentence in prison for like another 50 years.
28:00 And so they finally take him to a level 6 prison,
28:03 a new prison that is like in Tennessee
28:05 that is built against a mountain that he can't escape
28:09 and he's in solitary confinement
28:12 for probably the rest of his life
28:14 just about he's gonna be there and that's where he finds God.
28:18 How crazy is that?
28:19 And I'm thinking "God, how patient are you?"
28:22 And I know most of us don't have
28:23 that ridiculous journey like that.
28:26 But I think in some sense, we all have that journey
28:29 where God is just-- He's so kind of after us
28:33 and we run, and we hide and we're in these corners
28:36 and finally we just get tired and like, okay. Yeah.
28:39 I think particularly with these prison stories
28:41 and there are number of them.
28:43 And they're all very compelling.
28:45 One of the things I think it highlights is,
28:46 "If you're hard of hearing,
28:48 then the Lord will turn up the volume," you know.
28:50 And He'll increase the volume until you can hear.
28:53 And if you need a hearing aid He'll give you that too.
28:55 But sometimes the Lord has to take some
28:57 extraordinary measures just to get our attention.
29:00 And He did that in many of these cases.
29:02 You know, you're in level 6, you're in solitary,
29:04 you got a long stretch, that's where you find the Lord.
29:07 Well, the Lord's there too.
29:08 Can you hear me now? Yeah.
29:11 You know, can you hear me now?
29:13 And you know what's really interesting about even
29:17 because of this season what we're looking at is "now what?"
29:21 You know you're standing up, you're clean for the first time,
29:23 you're not running, you're not playing,
29:24 and you're not the guy anymore, now what?
29:27 What's that stuff that comes from your head
29:29 and from your heart that will not let you go
29:32 and can you surrender that to God?
29:34 And it was-- it's interesting
29:35 you can see that in these stories
29:37 that there's either fear
29:39 or abandonment or that sense of rage.
29:42 You know, life is not fair and all of those thing are
29:46 you know they really wrap around our soul
29:48 or wrap around our hearts and it's at that point
29:50 in recovery that God says, "That will kill you."
29:53 Forgive the people around you, let that go.
29:56 Even if you have to write down on a piece of paper,
29:59 "This is what I believe,
30:00 what does the devil want me to know or think about that?"
30:03 And the devil's strategy is to take you out
30:06 and then write next to it write what does God say?
30:09 And either look at in the word or shut your eyes and pray
30:12 and let the Holy Spirit say what I say
30:15 is you're my child.
30:17 This is a very important aspect
30:18 that you've touched on, you know.
30:20 Okay, what's been driving all these years is your rage,
30:23 your addiction, this get-over mentality
30:25 you know everybody you see as a mark or somebody get over.
30:29 Now you jettisoned all of that.
30:31 Now you're kind of this plain sheet of paper
30:34 with no writing on it, well, what do I do now?
30:36 You know, now I'm not trying to get over you,
30:39 I want to be honest with you.
30:40 Now I'm not trying to cheat you, I want to honest with you.
30:41 How do I run my life?
30:43 I'm out of prison, I've got a new start,
30:45 I got no skills or minimal skills.
30:47 All I got is Jesus, you know and I got to roll with that
30:49 because that's my reality now.
30:52 That's all I got, I don't have those tools,
30:54 those games I used to play.
30:55 None of that stuff anymore. I'm divested of all that stuff.
30:58 Now I got he Lord and so for prisoners or ex-prisoners
31:01 or those who will become ex-prisoners,
31:03 this season is important because it addresses that.
31:06 Exactly. You know, you see people who've come out.
31:08 I got to start all over again, how do I do that?
31:11 And, you know, what's really interesting about
31:14 a number of these guys or all of them in fact
31:16 that we saw on the roll in,
31:17 they're all doing ministry right now.
31:19 They're all reaching out to someone else.
31:21 Even there's two brothers that were in gangs
31:24 in most of their life and they lived in these areas
31:27 where you know there's crack houses
31:30 and a house would catch on fire, half of it burns
31:32 and you're in the lower income area, in Detroit
31:36 and you know they live where they walk by these houses,
31:38 nobody takes them down, nobody rents them,
31:40 people live in there and use drugs,
31:41 everybody knows that.
31:43 They're selling drugs on the street.
31:44 These kids jump into that, you know, as soon as
31:46 they're old enough to run anything
31:48 like sometimes 9, 10 years old.
31:50 And so they're going back to the hood and trying to say,
31:53 "Let's do a community garden"
31:55 and they're getting money from people like the mayor.
31:57 Let's write a grant
31:59 so that we can get these kids to do something.
32:01 Let's put a basketball court on that property
32:04 that had that burned out house.
32:06 And they're doing things that they knew that they needed
32:08 as a kid and I'm thinking good on you, for that.
32:11 How cool are you for that. Yeah.
32:12 And so it is that get up, surrender those deeper fears,
32:17 that stuff that drove you to seek after
32:20 whatever the comfort was and then ask God
32:22 "What are you gonna do with me?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
32:25 And you'll be surprised because He knows
32:27 what's on that blank sheet of paper.
32:29 He knows who you are. yeah.
32:30 He's known you since the foundations of the world.
32:33 He knows you the day after resurrection.
32:35 Don't define yourself about what happens here,
32:38 because He says, "Let me define you."
32:40 And that's the most incredible thing,
32:42 I think about this season is that
32:44 you know we're looking at is the core stuff.
32:47 How do I surrender that? How do I give that up?
32:50 That is very compelling and I need to say to you
32:52 because you spoke here recently and it was--
32:55 you were really anointed, it was powerful,
32:57 very powerful Sabbath morning message.
33:00 And after that one of the
33:02 participants in your program was in the audience.
33:04 And I was saying to him, you needed to hear that
33:07 because he's at that point.
33:09 He's out of prison, he has this history that's pretty bad
33:13 and he's aware of his history.
33:15 He's trying to free himself
33:17 from the consequences of his history.
33:18 He's leaning on the Lord, but he's hesitant about
33:21 going forward because he doesn't know
33:22 where Christ wants him.
33:24 And I think at the back of his mind
33:26 he doesn't know if Christ wants him in ministry.
33:29 Or if the church wants him. Precisely.
33:31 And I think listening to you said something to him
33:34 because it said-- it does say
33:36 "Regardless of what your history is
33:38 or where you've been or what you've done,
33:39 Jesus can use you.
33:41 And he can use that same history
33:42 to become a powerful testimony to his ability to reach down
33:47 and pluck people from the burning."
33:50 And if that is the only message that this season delivers,
33:54 then it is message enough because it's powerful.
33:56 Yeah, it is. That's enough.
33:57 And, you know, this guy that you're talking about
34:00 came up to me after the sermon.
34:01 He's in tears, he's trying to turn away from everybody
34:04 because he's like 6'6" and he's like a refrigerator.
34:07 I mean, that guy is huge and he has to say,
34:10 "But I'm afraid." Yeah.
34:12 And you know what? How do you say that?
34:13 And that's where I think the devil gets us,
34:16 is that we're so afraid to say what the core issues are
34:20 that we're gonna keep ourselves in bondage.
34:23 Don't do that. Yeah.
34:24 And even the program that we've put together for the churches
34:26 is being able to say is that "don't do that."
34:29 We're gonna look at the stuff, we're gonna surrender the stuff
34:31 and you are gonna be free.
34:32 And that's just cool. Yeah.
34:34 The next roll in we're gonna look at--
34:35 let me think of who's on that.
34:37 Oh, you know, I love this one.
34:39 We're gonna look at Melody, Miracle Meadows,
34:43 which is a group of kids from an at-risk tratement center.
34:47 They always want to join us because they're just amazing.
34:50 And we're gonna look at G.A.P.
34:52 The G.A.P. program which is Grandparents As Parents.
34:55 And well you know we'll talk about that when we come back.
34:58 You'll enjoy this.
34:59 Melody lost like a 100 pounds, I love her.
35:01 Yeah, I love this program, Food Versus God.
35:04 In this corner we got food, in this corner we got God.
35:07 You know, and God's gonna win
35:08 and He surely won in Melody's life.
35:10 That's a great program. Exactly, enjoy this.
35:13 And I have to say, I married at 17 years old.
35:16 So I was a very, very young girl, very active,
35:19 I loved to run and play tennis and swim.
35:22 You know, I just didn't know how to stop.
35:24 And I never had a problem with eating too much food
35:27 when I was hungry. Right.
35:29 So then I get married at 17 years old
35:31 and that's when everything started to change.
35:33 You know your body is changing.
35:35 Here I am, you know, I got married
35:36 and I got pregnant right away after I was married.
35:39 And I went to this totally different life.
35:42 And you know I'm looking back on it now,
35:44 I didn't see it then, Cheri.
35:46 But here I am 17 years old, I'm married.
35:49 I didn't have access to my friends,
35:52 the people I went to school with--
35:53 Everything changed for you. Everything changed for me.
35:56 I became a woman who sat at home, watched TV,
35:59 had nothing to do till my husband got home.
36:02 And ate.
36:04 And what else there was to do? Yeah.
36:06 I was adopted at the age of 4.
36:09 Beforehand I was with my birth mother who was single
36:13 and addicted to drugs and alcohol and everything.
36:16 And she wasn't taking care of me.
36:18 There'll be often times where she passed out,
36:21 you know she just leaved me.
36:22 So you kind of were taking care of her.
36:24 Yeah, as a little girl.
36:25 And I'd been in and out of the foster program.
36:27 And there was the time where, you know, she was told that
36:31 she needs to complete the rehab program or give up me.
36:35 And she gave up me.
36:38 You know when you're saying that
36:40 it sounds like it's an easy thing to say
36:41 but it can't have been that easy to feel.
36:44 No, this actually took me quite a long time to actually
36:49 accept the fact that it wasn't my fault for the adoption
36:52 and to realize that you know God's using me for a purpose
36:57 and that my past is my past and I've to step forward.
37:00 And not till this last year, well half year
37:03 that I started working with myself
37:05 and getting rid of that past hurt.
37:08 You would have to have a grandmother right now
37:12 whose daughter is on heroin. Yeah.
37:14 And she has-- this daughter walked away
37:18 early part of December and left this 4-month-old with her.
37:22 And because the grandmother--now,
37:24 she's taking the kid to the doctor.
37:25 So she's building a paper trail.
37:28 But right now the daughter continues to get the support.
37:32 And when the grandmother went to the family services
37:37 they said, "We haven't heard from your daughter.
37:39 We don't know that she doesn't have the child."
37:41 She's like, "But I have the child right here," you know.
37:45 So until she could build a case
37:49 to say that she actually is taking care of the child,
37:53 then she can't even get food stamps or work
37:57 or just some of those basic things to take care of the kid.
38:00 And so when the grandmother contacted us,
38:04 United Way had suggested they call us
38:05 and she was just looking for a baby bed for the child.
38:11 You know, I love the kids from Miracle Meadows.
38:15 But you know, when they come on the program,
38:17 they are so young and so damaged
38:19 and they really do want to come on and join us,
38:22 but you can see that in their testimonies
38:23 and you know that you are stepping in the--
38:25 sometimes in the first part of their journey
38:28 and there's lot of people around them
38:30 trying to walk them into recovery.
38:32 And so when they tell the story,
38:34 sometimes you'll look at them and say, you know,
38:36 "Wow, there's so much damage, but man, they are being loved
38:39 and they're being brought to a place
38:41 where they can surrender that, they can talk about that,
38:44 they're finishing school, they're surrounded by people
38:47 that really adore them and know what that they're doing."
38:49 And I'm just crazy about these kids.
38:51 But the next program that we saw was
38:53 Grandparents as Parents
38:55 and a lot of these are adopted kids,
38:57 they're being raised by grandparents.
38:59 And so I put on Facebook, I just said
39:01 "You know, how big of an issue is that?"
39:03 You know and I couldn't believe that.
39:06 I think I got over a 100 people just saying,
39:09 I'm raising my kid's children or my daughter is in prison
39:14 or so and so is in rehab.
39:15 And so I went online and I just put the stats.
39:19 And two million kids plus are been raised by grandparents
39:23 in the United States because of addiction things.
39:26 And so when you say somebody is gonna grab
39:29 an addictive substance to deal with their pain,
39:33 a lot of these kids are gonna do that
39:35 because of the craziness in their home.
39:37 And so I asked, I call the program called GAP,
39:40 Grandparents as Parents.
39:41 I asked them, would you come on and talk to us about that.
39:44 And they came on and I just love them.
39:47 And I love what they're doing.
39:49 When I was pasturing, all my time in New York city,
39:53 I would dare say around 10% of my membership
39:56 was grandparents taking care or their children's children
40:00 for whatever reason.
40:01 Sometimes there was a divorce and there was,
40:04 you know, some acrimony there and the grandparents got them or
40:07 sometimes there was some incarceration issues.
40:10 All kinds of things like children
40:11 end up with their grandparents
40:13 and it's much bigger I think than people believe,
40:16 particularly in the cities and in the suburbs too
40:17 and in rural settings.
40:19 But there are some particular challenges when a person
40:22 who really should be kind of in the rocking chair
40:24 or a lazy boy, kind of taking it easy,
40:26 is actively raising a 10, a 12, a 15, a 17-year-old it's tough.
40:31 It's really tough, where you know,
40:33 one woman was on the program and she said,
40:36 "You know, I'm raising five of my grandchildren
40:39 from two different families."
40:40 One daughter is incarcerated with drugs,
40:43 the other one got murdered.
40:44 And, so, she's got these grandbabies
40:46 and she has some operations that she needs to have done
40:49 and she says, "I just can't stop to do those."
40:51 Mm-hmm. And so it is tough.
40:52 And as grandparents, they don't get financial aid
40:56 the same way as a parent would.
40:58 They are not recognized in a lot of different categories
41:01 and so they are raising them on like retirement funds
41:04 or those kind of things and so they're really--
41:07 it was really cool to give that voice and just to say,
41:10 you know, we see you and God Bless You.
41:13 Okay. Who would think?
41:15 And I salute you for that.
41:18 And let me-- I'm just very happy
41:20 what God is doing with your life, you know, really.
41:23 I mean, just I don't get a chance to say that and,
41:24 you know, between, you know, our paths cross a lot
41:27 but not for long stretches of time. Yeah.
41:29 But who would think, you know, to put a program on
41:33 grandparent parenting in a Celebrating Life
41:38 and Recovery kind of format?
41:39 That's almost like I forgot, who's gonna address that issue?
41:42 Who's gonna talk about that?
41:43 And yet there are hundreds of thousands of grandparents
41:46 who are doing just that.
41:47 Where's their voice? Who's gonna speak to them?
41:49 And that's what we did this season,
41:50 we addressed that issue, well done. Thank you.
41:53 And you know, we've had grandparents
41:55 just in tears saying thank you. Yeah.
41:57 They, you know, they want to be seen.
41:58 "You know, we have our own recovery issues
42:01 because of this now."
42:02 It's huge. Yeah.
42:03 Thank you C.A. That was way cool.
42:05 I appreciate that, I'm a grandparent now.
42:07 And I--I must say I have limited capacity.
42:10 I'm not the prototypical grandparent.
42:13 My wife has, she is excellent, Erma is just great.
42:17 I--couple hours, 4 to 5 hours, maybe overnight
42:20 and then I kind of, I fatigue a little bit,
42:22 but she's got stamina.
42:24 So for all you grandparents out there, God Bless You.
42:26 Watch that show because you'll get some pointers,
42:28 you'll get some tips and you also know that you're not alone.
42:31 There are hundreds of thousands of people just like you
42:33 who have been called on an ongoing basis.
42:35 I get to send mine home,
42:37 you know, but on an ongoing basis
42:39 to raise their grandchildren.
42:40 It is not tough, our prayers are with you.
42:42 And even, you know, what was really interesting
42:44 before we go into the next roll in is
42:46 what I thought was incredible is just to be able to
42:49 look at the camera and say to the church,
42:51 if you see a grandparent with kids,
42:53 the lot of times they're not telling you that
42:54 they're raising these kids.
42:57 Love on them, invite them home,
43:00 you know, ask if you need any help,
43:02 that kind of stuff, be aware of the people around you.
43:05 Because we all kind of walk in and we look good.
43:09 And we look good. Yeah.
43:10 The kids look good. Right.
43:11 Everybody's hair is done. You know, what I mean?
43:13 But you don't know what trauma or drama preceded all of that.
43:15 Exactly, and so you know, my plead on this segment,
43:21 on this season is for us to look at each other.
43:25 Yeah. Look at each other.
43:26 Because the best of the best of us have issues, you know.
43:29 And we have issues that where lot of times
43:32 I'm not gonna tell you about and God--
43:34 but God doesn't say that, because He says,
43:35 "Confess to one another, pray for each other,
43:37 love one another and kind of unpack all that stuff,"
43:41 but we really haven't gotten that part of it.
43:43 So this season I'm praying that we get that part of it--
43:45 Praise the Lord. With each other.
43:47 The next roll in that we're gonna see is Ashley David
43:52 and I got a cancellation on a program and I thought,
43:55 "What am I gonna do?" The cancellation was like the.
43:58 You know, we're setting up, people are behind the cameras,
44:01 the cancellation happened
44:03 and Shelley walks down the hallway,
44:04 you know, it was lucky it wasn't you.
44:07 It was Shelley walks down the hallway and I'm like,
44:09 "Shelley, would you be on the program?"
44:11 So we had Shelley Quinn come in and I was blessed by the honesty
44:17 of what she presented to us of her own journey.
44:19 So enjoy this.
44:22 And I was so broken, I walked out to--
44:24 there was a bridge near the mall at where I'd been.
44:28 And I stood on the bridge and it was--
44:30 I don't how far above the water it is,
44:32 but it's one of the New York City bridges
44:34 and I was gonna jump off.
44:35 Right then and there I had decided
44:38 and I started arguing with God, of all the things.
44:41 I'm arguing with God about "Why I'm gonna do this?"
44:43 And I'm telling Him, "God, it's not you it's me, really.
44:47 It's not your fault." I don't want you to feel
44:48 bad about this. Yes.
44:50 "It's not your fault that I'm gonna commit suicide.
44:51 You didn't do anything. This is on me.
44:53 I just can't make it work anymore." Yeah.
44:55 And I heard God in my head going, "Don't, don't do it."
45:00 And I'm like "You don't understand.
45:03 I can't do it anymore, I'm tired."
45:05 And I said, "God, I need a different life."
45:08 And He goes, "If you don't do it,
45:10 I'll give you a different life."
45:12 And I'm standing there going, "Well, what have I got to lose?"
45:17 You know, and I go "Okay, God,
45:19 you're gonna have to fix everything,
45:21 because I've just completely messed it up at this point."
45:24 No, I just-- You haven't killed anybody.
45:26 At that point, right. Yeah.
45:27 And it wasn't for the lack of not trying,
45:31 you know, what I mean?
45:32 If a car-- if somebody took off--
45:33 And one thing you just say that, so casually.
45:37 It was--it is-- That was the lifestyle.
45:39 It is through that lifestyle you are somewhat desensitized
45:43 to the inhumanity of it, of what's going on.
45:46 So I mean I don't say it in a cavalier way,
45:48 but I did deal with it and it wasn't in my mind like
45:54 I know how people think today
45:56 what you were referring to normal people
45:58 because I've been around with lot of normal people now
46:01 and I know they think differently
46:02 because they don't understand how could you do that.
46:05 Right. So how could you even think that way?
46:07 If somebody was somewhat reluctant to give me
46:12 what I was taking, I would, you know,
46:14 you would attack him and assault him.
46:16 You know, I don't want to get too graphic,
46:18 but you would actually-- No, no, you're setting this out.
46:22 I'm not leaving without it.
46:24 And I must take everything I need to take to get it."
46:27 So if you want to, you know, how far do you want this to go?
46:32 And I've used a phrase before,
46:34 you know, when I would be doing robberies at time,
46:36 you know, telling people, you know,
46:38 "Let's not have this be a homicide.
46:40 You know, don't cause this to be a homicide.
46:43 Just get this stuff up." Just relax.
46:45 I just kept trying to be perfect and my mother would tell me,
46:49 you know, "You never needed me as a child.
46:52 You've always been perfect
46:53 and that's why I love your sister more.
46:56 So when she would have these episodes,
46:59 any animosity she felt toward my father came out to me
47:03 and it all ended up on me.
47:05 So you get this barrage of stuff that's like--
47:08 Oh, yeah, Because I mean, you know, I'm,
47:10 I mean it doesn't,
47:12 I don't want to paint a horrible picture of my mother,
47:14 but I've been pulled around the house
47:16 by the hair on my head,
47:18 I've been pretty, you know, things would get very intense.
47:22 You know, Cheri, one of the themes
47:23 that have sort of weaved its way through
47:25 all of the programs this year was pulling off the patina,
47:28 taking off the mask,
47:29 not being afraid to say I'm afraid.
47:32 Not being afraid to say sometimes I cry,
47:34 sometimes I feel very alone in a crowed room,
47:38 I have this big bad persona, but under--
47:43 there's a song "The Warrior is a Child,"
47:45 you know, deep inside this armor
47:47 that I'm just a human being
47:48 who's gotten hurt and trying to heal.
47:50 And that's very, very real.
47:52 And I think that in what God says is
47:56 "I want you to know that you have to be that real."
48:00 And when we talk about emptying self,
48:02 you know, you empty that out,
48:04 I think that we are sometimes unclear about what that means,
48:07 but it's just get to the point
48:08 where the core issues are the core issues.
48:11 Because if I'm even going to a doctor
48:13 and I'm just telling him all the superficial stuff,
48:15 he can keep trying to get to heal me.
48:19 But eventually he's gonna have to know,
48:21 "Oh, it's my heart."
48:22 You know, and God says, you know,
48:24 these core issues are really a big deal."
48:26 You know, in that segment we're talking about,
48:29 Ashley is a friend of mine from church and,
48:31 you know, we were talking and she's, you know,
48:33 she's raised by her grandparents, you know,
48:35 she's in and out of different things,
48:37 she's got step family, she's doesn't fit in anywhere,
48:40 she gets so angry by the time she goes to school
48:44 that she's thinking nobody is gonna accept me that,
48:46 the people don't accept her.
48:48 Because you're angry and you're you know,
48:49 you act that way and you're mad at us
48:51 and we didn't do anything and so then she gets angrier
48:54 and she doesn't fit in and then starts doing drugs
48:57 and then she gets into this whole culture called vampirism.
49:02 Have you heard of that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
49:04 And so you know, where literally
49:06 they are drinking each other's blood
49:08 and cutting each other and so now
49:10 not only does she not fit in, but she's getting
49:13 deeper and deeper and deeper into this kind of satanic
49:17 subculture and so you know, how does she come to a place
49:21 that she gets free of that?
49:24 And you know, God just says, you know,
49:26 we want to look at the behavioral stuff.
49:28 We really want to come in and say,
49:31 you know, well, you can't do drugs
49:33 and you can't drink someone's blood.
49:34 You know, there are clubs that you can go in and order blood.
49:39 I mean, it's just bizarre how big that culture is,
49:41 but you can't do that or you can't do drugs
49:44 or you can't beat your wife or you can't whatever.
49:47 But you know, for her, the bottom line as soon as
49:50 things started dropping away and she realized
49:53 that she was going to trust God,
49:55 is she was so afraid and so--feeling so unloved
49:59 and like I don't belong anywhere
50:01 and first of all God had to fill--fix that wound
50:04 and then she had to step into a church
50:06 and trust that the people around her
50:08 are going to help her with that wound.
50:10 You know, it's interesting because
50:12 in this particular segment,
50:14 you had two individuals who because of the lifestyle,
50:18 you know, you can look at some individuals and say,
50:19 you know, bad, Ashley, bad, bad, no drinking blood, you know.
50:22 You know, it's bad, bad, it's very bad.
50:25 Or we can say, what's driving this?
50:28 Where's the real pain? Because this is just a band-aid.
50:31 You know, this is Satan reaching out
50:33 and taking your dysfunction
50:34 and using it for your destruction.
50:37 Let's get to the real issue.
50:38 And she found that,
50:40 you know, she came in timid and she praised God,
50:44 came to a fellowship that accepted her as--
50:47 people bring, you know, we've talked about this.
50:49 Well, people bring junk. People bring stuff.
50:51 Nobody comes in whole. yeah.
50:53 And we can't sit back and say,
50:54 "Oh my God, you bad, bad person."
50:56 We gotta say "How could Jesus
50:59 use me as an instrument to help you?"
51:02 And that's-- How can I speak life into her?
51:03 Precisely, yeah.
51:05 The next one is David Casey, you know,
51:06 and you talked about that and you know he's out of prison,
51:09 he's been in and out his whole life.
51:10 The longest he was out was couple weeks at a time
51:13 and he's got so much rage that his power is his rage.
51:16 And now the Bible says, "Don't be angry." Yeah.
51:20 What? What do you mean?
51:22 Because that's where I got my power.
51:23 That's why people respect me because I'm angry.
51:26 Right. I could take them out.
51:28 And, yeah, now God is saying,
51:29 "I want you to surrender that to me."
51:32 And now he has to say,
51:34 "But underneath that anger is fear.
51:37 Even though I'm a big guy,
51:39 people pay attention when I walk in the room,
51:40 but I've got this stuff" and that's the healing.
51:43 The deep healing is gonna be that.
51:46 Shelley, you know, I know her and I love her
51:50 and you know, she is just an
51:52 incredible woman of God in ministry
51:54 and but you know, she was raised with her mom
51:57 with mental illness, she dealt with perfectionism,
52:00 always had to be perfect and do the right thing
52:03 even to the point of having to look at God and say,
52:05 "God, do you expect that of me?"
52:08 And when I let go of that perfectionism,
52:12 what do I do? yeah.
52:14 Who am I? Right, yeah.
52:15 And you know, and we're thinking,
52:17 "No it's good that you're working so hard."
52:18 Well, it's not. It's not.
52:20 You know. Yeah, yeah.
52:21 It probably looks better than me slamming heroin,
52:24 but we're in the same bondage.
52:25 Yeah, but it's still dysfunction, it is. Yes.
52:27 You know, so go back to David, just a little bit.
52:32 In listening to your description of the show
52:36 and also in talking with him on a couple of occasions,
52:40 it's like Samson's strength was his hair
52:44 and when his hair was cut, he had no strength.
52:47 David's strength was his rage. Yeah.
52:49 And now, when you come to the Lord,
52:53 the Lord--that's the first thing He takes away.
52:54 He takes away that anger.
52:56 So now you don't have any strength.
52:57 You have no motivation.
52:59 And I thought about that, here's this really huge guy
53:02 who is intimidating just by his form,
53:05 but he said it "When I went on a prison yard,
53:07 nobody messed with me." Yeah.
53:08 Didn't say anything to me.
53:10 It was like this guy will just take you out.
53:11 He will kill you.
53:13 So now he didn't have that rage,
53:14 so now where does my life force come from?
53:17 Where does my energy to get up
53:19 and face the challenges each day,
53:20 because it's not rage anymore.
53:22 Now I'm surrendered,
53:23 so now I got to get a new motivating force.
53:26 And I've got a really tap into the power of Jesus Christ.
53:29 And that's where he finds himself, you know,
53:32 sort of making that connection-- Amen.
53:34 To tapping into the power of Jesus Christ and I told him,
53:37 when we talked on Sabbath, I said,
53:39 "God's got something good for you, man.
53:40 Just walk with Him, it's coming, it's coming.
53:43 Let the Lord use you." He's showing you who you are.
53:45 Yeah, he was showing,
53:46 because he doesn't know who he is now.
53:47 I've been a prisoner all my life,
53:49 I've been the big dog.
53:50 Not a big dog anymore, I'm just a servant of the Lord.
53:52 That's a different role for him. Child of God.
53:54 Child of God, yeah.
53:55 We'll be right back, stay with us.