Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Rich Kollenberg, Susan Kollenberg,
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000051B
00:13 Welcome back!
00:14 Incredible, incredible testimony and how we can
00:20 literally get so far out there that it's not even,
00:24 I don't even think that we are acting human.
00:27 Our bodies are trashed, our minds are trashed,
00:30 body organs I'm sure are starting to shut down
00:34 with you guys.
00:35 And physically did you have any major crisis,
00:39 at that point were you in crisis in any way yet,
00:42 or that you knew of?
00:43 Susan: well the last time that I was arrested,
00:45 I had to turn myself into jail.
00:46 My hair was falling out, my teeth were falling out,
00:49 I had scabs everywhere and I was about 45 pounds
00:52 lighter that what I am today.
00:53 Cheri: wow,45 pounds... Susan: correct!
00:57 Cheri: because I was just thinking like Oh man,
01:00 that is a lot of pounds.
01:01 Susan: it is, it is.
01:03 So you can really tell, I probably look about 10 or 20
01:09 years younger than when I used to when it was using.
01:12 Cheri: it is absolutely amazing the damage.
01:16 Rich: we have had a lot of mouth work done,
01:18 this is a whole new front grill.
01:20 It's too funny, because you know we first come we are
01:23 a mess, our face is rotted, our teeth are falling out
01:25 and all that kind of stuff, and God just blesses us.
01:28 Susan: He does, He does!
01:30 Rich: He dumped a chunk of change into her mouth too.
01:32 You have to do those kinds of things once you get clean
01:37 and sober, those are the things that you have to start
01:39 taking care of, the things that you never...
01:41 Cheri: you know I love when you say you have to start
01:43 taking care of, I didn't even know that.
01:45 The person that brought me to Christ, Vegan,
01:47 vegetarian Adventist woman I thought it was going
01:51 to kill me to even stay at her house.
01:52 But her husband was a dentist and they literally
01:54 looked at my teeth and said sadly that I think that
01:58 your face has rotted, your jaw has rotted.
02:01 There is so much infection in that, that there is
02:03 no way you can keep your teeth.
02:04 I remember just crying, I'm 23 years old.
02:08 The stuff that I have done in my life has caused me
02:11 to be at this place and they decided they were going
02:15 to save my teeth, scrape jaw bones, fix things and all
02:18 that kind of stuff.
02:19 I'm thinking that God sets people in our lives that
02:22 will walk us into health even we don't have insurance,
02:25 we don't even know what needs to be fixed.
02:27 You are saying Susan, the woman at prison just said,
02:32 what is it that you keep doing this.
02:35 Susan: why do you keep doing this to yourself?
02:36 I said I don't know why I keep doing this, all I know
02:39 is that from the time that I can remember that I got up
02:44 and use drugs before went to bed I used them.
02:46 That was just my lifestyle, that is all I ever knew.
02:49 She say can I pray with you and I said, sure whatever.
02:51 She grabbed my hands and she prayed for me,
02:55 and I don't remember what she said, all I know is
02:58 that from that point on I have never had the
03:00 obsession to use drugs again.
03:01 Cheri: isn't that amazing!
03:02 Susan: gone immediately!
03:04 Cheri: and we don't do that, we don't step into
03:06 someone's life, and
03:07 I want to beg people if you're listening, if you're
03:09 the Café, if you're out there and you are listening.
03:10 If you feel that somebody has given you the privilege to pray
03:14 for them, pray with everything in you because...
03:18 Susan: it made a huge difference in my life.
03:20 So I started doing everything opposite, because God
03:23 put it in my heart you have to do everything opposite
03:26 of what you've done so far in your life.
03:27 So I went to AA meetings, NA meetings, I went to church,
03:31 I went to the school inside the jail.
03:33 I did everything I could and talked to my boyfriend
03:37 and said, you know what?
03:39 I'm done! I'm all done!
03:42 Cheri: When, because your not in jail, your
03:43 not in prison so what did you think when she says
03:45 she is done?
03:46 Rich: I tried to convince her, you know I'll continue
03:49 to use drugs and you'll never know.
03:50 She didn't buy that, and of course I couldn't
03:54 see really what was going on and she says no
03:57 I can't see you anymore.
03:59 Susan: because, I knew I was going to die if
04:01 I went out and I used drugs again.
04:03 This is my last opportunity to live and at that point
04:07 I wanted to live, so everything had to change.
04:10 I was taught everything has to change.
04:12 Cheri: when God, I love the Bible, you know for some
04:15 people that haven't opened up the word of God yet,
04:17 I just beg them to open up the word of God because
04:20 there is a point where God says, I set before you
04:23 life and death, choose life.
04:25 For some of us that is so, it's like you look at that
04:29 and the concept is even huge, choose life, it is my
04:32 choice, and you're saying I'm making it.
04:35 If by telling you I'm sorry, I love you and you've
04:40 been in my life a long time but you cannot stay
04:43 here if you don't want to get clean.
04:44 Rich: yeah and then I took an inventory and that's
04:47 when inventory hit me.
04:48 I started looking back at the instances we had talked
04:51 about previously, you know how my life had been a
04:54 speedboat going through a 5 mile an hour zone,
04:57 leaving a wake of destruction.
04:58 The damage that I had done, not necessarily by
05:03 literally doing damage, but damage by abandonment to people.
05:08 You know you don't go see your parents at how much that
05:10 hurts them, or your sisters, or what not.
05:13 Just being a social ameba causes harm to other people
05:17 and you don't even realize it.
05:18 So this inventory is taking place and I'm thinking,
05:22 man I've had it all wrong.
05:24 And God said, you know what you've have, you have
05:26 had it wrong for 41 years...
05:28 Cheri: so did you hear the Holy Spirit, Ah, man I love that.
05:32 Rich: yeah, you've done it, you get it wrong now you
05:34 got to try it My way Rich, your way hasn't worked.
05:37 This is what your best thinking got you.
05:40 And what is really amazing to me is that you start
05:44 hearing the God of heaven, as soon as you are ready,
05:49 as soon as you can, the God of heaven just speaks directly
05:51 to you, not audible voice, but you know it's Him.
05:54 Rich: you know, and you know what's going on in your
05:56 life, and you know at that point in time you have to
05:59 make a decision.
06:00 He says, you can use drugs one more day you're going
06:04 to die, this is it, it's come down to this.
06:06 You look back on your life and you say I know it has
06:10 come down to this.
06:11 When you make that decision and you start telling
06:15 friends, I'm not going to use drugs anymore,
06:19 well of course naturally they say, oh yeah, right!
06:22 But you know in your heart that you have changed,
06:25 you're going to turn around.
06:26 You do not know how you are going to do it.
06:27 I will call her up and I say I don't know how,
06:31 I don't know what to do, and she'd say just pray
06:33 and God will help you.
06:34 So for 3 months I prayed a 3 word prayer, God help me!
06:37 Just God help me, and He was there for me.
06:40 Cheri: so you know it doesn't have to be complicated,
06:44 the prayer doesn't have to be complicated.
06:46 Rich: no, I can remember lying face down on my bed
06:48 screaming at the top of my lungs for God to help me that
06:50 last time, because I didn't know what I was going to do.
06:53 I do know how I was going to do it, all I know that
06:55 everything I had done up to that point was wrong.
06:57 Cheri: can I say something, and I don't want to say
07:00 this to convict anyone, well that's a lie,
07:03 I'm working on being honest I want it to convict
07:06 every one of you.
07:07 Sometimes if we don't look good enough, that people
07:12 don't want to take the time with us.
07:14 And I imagine you guys didn't look very good during
07:18 this stage, and so sometimes because nobody else is
07:21 taking the time, nobody else has the hope that we're
07:24 starting to develop in your heart, nobody else has the
07:27 confidence in recovery like God has for us.
07:30 You are doing this on your own.
07:31 Rich: yeah I don't know if you could get it in your
07:35 mind's eye 2 drug addicts now living in a shack that
07:39 have decided to give their life to God.
07:41 Cheri: I can!
07:43 Rich: and now how they would fumble along in their
07:46 life making these simple decisions that would be so
07:50 very difficult for them to make.
07:51 Susan: well the decisions where things that normal people
07:53 do on a daily basis.
07:54 Cheri: you got out of jail.
07:55 Susan: I got out of jail and told him that's it no more.
07:58 Cheri: you live in poverty... Susan: correct!
08:01 Because my mom was quite the enabler and so we
08:06 didn't pay bills or have driver license or insurance
08:09 or do any of the things that we should have been
08:12 doing our whole adulthood.
08:14 He had ran away from IRS and so was in a lot of debt.
08:19 Rich: I was in trouble with the IRS and moving every 2
08:23 years somewhere to avoid.
08:26 Susan: we were great runners, not marathon runners.
08:29 Cheri: so now God has got a hold of you,
08:30 you are realizing that I have to stay away from drugs,
08:33 I have to step away from that.
08:34 Were you successful, I mean did you slip,
08:38 did you relapse, did you?
08:39 Susan and Rich: no, neither one of us!
08:41 Rich: from the moment that I cried out to God,
08:43 He lifted the obsession for me to use drugs also and
08:47 that is when you realize this is it.
08:51 This is going to be different, I don't know how it's
08:54 going to happen, but it's going to be different.
08:56 Susan: and what God told us was I want you to search
08:58 for Me just as hard as you searched for your drugs.
09:01 That is going to be the key for you to stay alive
09:04 and to be clean and sober.
09:06 Cheri: you know I think that for most of us is huge
09:11 because we'll search out why were we like this.
09:14 Why did I get this way, and God says you know what,
09:16 health is more than not doing drugs.
09:19 It's finding out who I Am, who you are, what the world
09:23 looks like outside of these chemical dependencies,
09:26 outside of these addictions.
09:27 That is huge, so I would imagine that you were
09:32 searching in every single way you could.
09:35 Susan: and with the answers started coming from a
09:37 lot of different directions, we met a lot of people
09:39 coming in studying with us.
09:40 We were watching television and listen to the radio,
09:42 what ever we could to find who God truly was.
09:45 Cheri: so you were initially not watching
09:48 Christian television, and tell us about that
09:50 because I love this part.
09:51 Rich: well we were watching, we had this little
09:54 black-and-white 13 inch television.
09:56 One day I was convicted, I said Susan, we can't be
10:00 watching this garbage on TV anymore.
10:02 This has got to go, it is part of changing, because
10:06 of the violence and whatnot, it just wasn't right.
10:09 So I was flipping with the channels and we got 3ABN.
10:14 It was Pastor Doug Batchelor on there and he was
10:18 talking, hey come here and look at this guy.
10:21 What he was saying started to make sense and it was
10:26 interesting because we would go to NA meetings, and
10:29 there's another preacher on the radio that we would
10:31 listen to, and he was saying different things then
10:34 was happening on 3ABN.
10:36 So every time that we would get in the car we would
10:39 listen to this radio and then we'd say, well let's
10:42 see what 3ABN has to say about it.
10:44 So we would go back and we listen and one of evangelists
10:47 would be on there, you know Kenneth Cox, or one of those
10:50 guys and it would always get answered.
10:52 But it always answered what made sense,
10:54 it made perfect sense.
10:56 Cheri: and take you back to the Bible, this is
10:57 where the Bible says this.
10:59 Susan: You have to realize Rich was a class valedictorian,
11:02 but he could read at the end of his addiction.
11:04 Rich: yeah I had smoked my brain so she was reading
11:08 the Bible, so it was so important for us to have
11:10 somebody there to put the text up on the screen and
11:15 then interpreted it, and bounce it back with another text.
11:17 Then you say okay now things are starting to come
11:19 together a little bit.
11:20 I can understand this and it was so helpful.
11:24 Cheri: can you remember when you began to
11:30 feel alive, joy, happiness.
11:33 Rich: I remember one night we were laying in bed
11:36 giggling, for no reason.
11:38 Remember that, I don't know she remembers that,
11:41 but I just started laughing, and then she started
11:44 laughing and we couldn't stop laughing for about
11:46 45 minutes to an hour.
11:49 That was the first time I think that I had really
11:53 laughed, I mean you know when you're drunk...
11:56 Cheri: smoking some weed.
11:59 Rich: whatever, you are laughing but it's not a real
12:02 joy, I mean it's just another medication to crack
12:06 jokes or what ever.
12:08 Is just another way of medicating yourself because
12:10 you don't want to look at reality so make
12:12 everything funny and it's not real either.
12:14 So I could remember that joy that I was actually
12:18 free from something.
12:19 Cheri: when I want to talk to any kind of an addict,
12:22 I just want to assure them that that day is coming,
12:25 where all of a sudden you'll laugh out loud and you'll
12:29 like being in your own skin, and you'll all of
12:31 a sudden say you know God, How did You do this?
12:33 Rich: yeah, yeah you turn around and sometimes it's in
12:37 reflection, you look at something that you used to
12:40 do it no longer do and say wow, how did that happen?
12:45 Rich: how did He do that?
12:46 Susan: and for me it's just being able to be
12:49 okay with who I am, and being able to accept my past for
12:54 what it was and to see how God sees me, and to be okay.
12:59 Cheri: you know do you feel that you have to go back
13:03 and understand every event?
13:04 Susan: no, I don't.
13:05 Cheri: because you know some people do and some people
13:08 need to at times, but I say look at the face of God
13:12 because we really have been given a new heart and a new
13:16 mind and I want to understand that one not my old one.
13:19 Susan: you know I'm almost come to the point where I
13:22 don't even know who that person is anymore.
13:24 It's that big of a difference.
13:26 You know God has changed me so much.
13:28 It's that big of a difference.
13:31 Cheri: what does your folks say?
13:32 Susan: you know, both of my parents have passed away
13:35 recently, but they weren't too sure.
13:38 They were happy that I was clean and sober, but then
13:40 we changed so much that we didn't do the things that
13:43 they used to do.
13:44 You know I wasn't smoking, I wasn't drinking, I wasn't
13:46 going to the casinos, I wasn't watching the TV.
13:49 So it was different for them to accept.
13:53 Cheri: so they wanted you somewhere in the middle where
13:56 you could do that but not get lost in your addictions.
13:58 Susan: exactly!
13:59 Cheri: and for an addict you can't do that.
14:00 Rich: no! Cheri: we have to be healthy.
14:04 Rich: yeah and a lot of times we have to go to that
14:06 extreme for our own protection, because we know if we
14:08 try to bend it half way it is not going to work.
14:12 Cheri: can you talk about what has been, not only
14:17 for us at the Café, but for anybody listening,
14:19 what has really been some of the key steps,
14:23 or the key things in your recovery.
14:25 The things that you say, you know what!
14:27 Pay attention to this.
14:28 Rich: you know one of the main things as I think back
14:32 now and when someone would ask me a question when
14:35 they are struggling with cigarette smoking, or what not.
14:38 I always reflect back on my life and I start here and say,
14:42 okay I came to God and cried out to God, right?
14:45 God lifted the obsession for me to use drugs.
14:48 About a year later, He tapped me on the shoulder and
14:52 says, Rich you know you are calling yourself a
14:54 Christian, it's time that you quit smoking.
14:56 Cheri: it took me forever to quit smoking.
14:58 Rich: okay so you see what I'm saying, okay so then
14:59 I quit smoking, but...
15:01 Cheri: and I get it from everywhere.
15:02 Rich: that's for sure.
15:03 Cheri: I smelled like cigarettes all the time,
15:05 I sprayed perfume all over me, I was like God take
15:08 this one from me, and He never did it easy
15:11 like the first part.
15:12 Like heroin He did easy, smoking and He said, I just
15:15 want you to feel how difficult it is for addictions.
15:17 Rich: the things we do, things we do
15:19 to hide our addictions.
15:20 So after that, after the smoking stopped about
15:23 a year goes by and once again I keep this little
15:25 tap on the shoulder, and you're not talking very well,
15:29 but you're not speaking quite right,
15:30 but you're giving your testimony,
15:31 but a lot of trash is coming out of your mouth.
15:33 I think you need to clean your mouth up...
15:35 Cheri: are you reading my mail, He tells the that too!
15:40 Rich: so all this is happening, right?
15:42 Yeah, okay, well that was a struggle but we got through it
15:47 and then of course a little while longer it goes
15:49 on and I think it's time you get baptized.
15:53 In a little while longer, what the point I'm trying to make
15:56 is at what point was I God's child?
16:00 It was all the way through, so your original
16:04 question I think dealt with what do you tell somebody
16:07 in those situations, when they are struggling and
16:11 their trying to deal with things.
16:15 Well you have to, I get enjoyment from looking back
16:18 and saying God was always with me.
16:19 I was always His child.
16:21 Cheri: so it sounds like what you're saying,
16:23 is trust the process.
16:25 Rich: exactly!
16:26 Cheri: where you may have God really on you right here,
16:30 He may leave the smoking for 2 or 3 years
16:33 because He's dealing with this.
16:34 Not that He wants your lungs to be trashed for that long,
16:36 but this right here is important.
16:38 And with me after 20 something years of recovery,
16:41 God says, You know Cheri, I want to work on your lying,
16:43 and I'm thinking what!
16:45 And I'm shocked and it is really funny to me that an
16:49 addict would be shocked with that but I'm shocked and
16:51 thinking you mean exaggerating, He's says, we call that lying,
16:54 but I think it's amazing that He says, I will work on
16:59 one thing at a time and some of these things to an
17:02 outsider may not seem important at all.
17:05 They may say the smoking is more important then this
17:08 person learning that their loved and God said, oh no,
17:11 this person needs to know their loved.
17:13 The smoking will be easier.
17:15 Rich: Maybe the smoking is the manifestation of why, the way
17:19 they feel, you have to fix the first part, before the
17:22 manifestation can go way.
17:24 Cheri: exactly, I'm going to open up for questions.
17:26 I know there is people in the cafe that are dying to
17:29 ask you some things.
17:30 Were going to start here with Pastor Ken.
17:32 I'm Pastor Ken, and by the way I have a question
17:35 because in my past I relate a lot to both of you
17:39 in the fact that I was on Meth for 25 plus years.
17:42 I know the thing that I got out of it was such a high,
17:47 such an adrenaline rush, and such a powerful power.
17:51 And getting off of it in your recovery, my question is,
17:56 what have you replace that with?
17:58 You can't just, Meth to me is so powerful you
18:01 can't just stop doing it.
18:04 Something has to replace that, some kind of energy,
18:07 so for both of you what is that?
18:10 Rich: well like she was saying, and this is something
18:14 we both agreed on and it is why I think there is a
18:17 success story here is because God put it in both of
18:21 our hearts that we had to find the real deal.
18:23 We had to find Him, we had to search for Him and then
18:27 once we began to find Him we needed share about Him.
18:31 About what's been going on in our lives.
18:34 How He changed our lives.
18:35 How He's helped us and He's always there for us,
18:38 and He's always been there for us.
18:39 So it's been one constant search for the
18:42 true character of God.
18:44 When we found the real God of the Bible,
18:45 that's what did it.
18:47 Cheri: what I love is when somebody says, that sense of
18:51 power, it is always an illusion of power with the drugs.
18:55 When you come into a relationship with Christ,
18:58 when you come into that and realize the significance
19:01 of who God is and the power of that.
19:04 The significance of who you are in Christ and feel that
19:07 for the first time you are going to be laying in bed
19:10 laughing in out loud.
19:11 Rich: yeah, and you actually feel, I fit in,
19:14 I fit into the human family now.
19:16 Susan: and I think also the power was being able to go
19:19 and tell people exactly what God had done in our lives.
19:22 And to be happy about it, when I tell people I'm a
19:25 3- time felony they are, just their jaw drops,
19:27 but it is incredible how God can take you where
19:30 you were and change you completely.
19:32 Cheri: when I look at the church, and I know for
19:35 some churches, it's especially little addicts,
19:38 they don't want little addicts up there giving their
19:40 testimony, do you know what I mean?
19:41 But we need to, at any stage in our recovery we
19:45 need to be able to talk to somebody and say out loud,
19:48 isn't God amazing.
19:49 I remember reading one time in the Bible and I was
19:52 reading about Mary Magdalene and the demoniac.
19:55 I'm thinking when I get to heaven I'm having lunch
19:57 with those guys and saying, isn't it cool that we
20:00 are like right here, and we belong here.
20:03 It's amazing!
20:05 I'm going to find out if there's any more questions,
20:07 Angela you had a question.
20:09 Yes I do have a question.
20:11 I would like to know, this is a family question by
20:13 the way, I would like to know you do have any children
20:16 together, or from a previous relationship?
20:18 Rich: you know we kind of got together and talked
20:23 about it, we couldn't take care of ourselves.
20:27 So we thought, we agreed we wouldn't have children.
20:31 We got married at what age, I think I was 42...
20:35 Susan: I was 35, and we were barely able to take care
20:40 of ourselves, so neither of us have any children
20:42 from a previous marriage.
20:44 I wanted to, but we just got to the point where we
20:47 could barely hang on ourselves.
20:49 Rich: we had depression going on, I remembered for
20:52 the first 2 years she sat and stared into space.
20:55 And cried every day, every day and after that happened,
21:01 I went through the same kind of metamorphosis.
21:04 So we found out that we had to get on a regiment of
21:08 exercise, and the proper food, that is why the health
21:11 message was so appealing to us.
21:13 Cheri: I want you to stay there for a while because
21:17 for a lot of us, I mean coming into this church, one
21:20 of the things that blesses us more than anything is
21:23 when somebody says, here have a glass of water.
21:27 You know, have a cantaloupe, do something and not
21:30 realizing that the nuro-chemical repair that happens
21:33 with just being out in the sun, learning how to
21:35 breathe and eating right.
21:37 Rich: yeah learning how to do all those things,
21:38 of course we have to be taught to do that.
21:41 I know if I want to get depressed all I have to do is
21:45 stop eating flax seeds, stop exercising, and start going
21:49 to bed at weird times and getting up at weird times.
21:52 3, 4, 5, 6 days I will be a mess.
21:56 Susan: and for me it was just drinking water,
21:59 It still is just drinking water.
22:01 It's just something I never did and so it's a hard
22:04 thing to keep my body hydrated.
22:06 Cheri: so you learn a lot about taking care of yourself
22:10 as you stepped into your relationship with God.
22:13 Not only who God is, which is amazing, but who you are,
22:18 how your body was created, how to take care of it.
22:21 Rich: right, and socially too, we never had any social
22:24 skills, it took us 4 or 5 years before we would invite
22:28 somebody over for dinner.
22:29 Cheri: I would introduce people like, Hi, my name is
22:32 Cheri, the first suicide attempt I had was when
22:33 I was 8 years old.
22:35 And they would look at me like, alright.
22:37 But we don't know how to do any of that.
22:40 Rich: we don't know how to make small talk and have
22:43 somebody over and eat at talk about normal things.
22:45 Cheri: so it was 5 years before you invited somebody over?
22:47 Rich: yeah, after we were married.
22:49 Cheri: and did you just decide after 5 years,
22:50 I'm going to have some of the over?
22:51 Rich: know the guy forced his way, he didn't force
22:54 his way, he's a wonderful Pastor, young Pastor that
22:56 we really hit it off with.
22:57 He took great care of us and he invited himself over,
23:00 he said you know I'm going to come over for lunch,
23:03 and we said okay.
23:05 We got all excited, and we still had sheets hanging
23:08 on the windows, no furniture, but it worked out well
23:12 and now Susan does a real good job at entertaining
23:15 people at our home now.
23:16 Cheri: God has blessed you with that.
23:18 Susan: yes He has.
23:20 Cheri: one thing that I know about recovery is
23:22 that as God gets us to the point where we can stand up,
23:25 He says now let me show you what your natural gifting
23:28 are because we don't know what they are, we don't know
23:31 anything but how to get some good dope.
23:34 Rich: the funny thing, God I think has a sense of humor
23:37 in regards to the fact that when we started going to
23:41 church I was falling asleep all the time.
23:43 So the Pastor there said, you need to teach Sabbath school.
23:47 Okay, and they made her in charge of health ministries.
23:52 So here is a guy...
23:53 Susan: it was a church of like 8 people.
23:54 Rich: not many people but still here's 2 addicts,
23:57 one guy can't read, now he's teaching Sabbath school.
24:00 Someone that has damaged their body all their life is
24:02 now in charge of health ministries.
24:04 Cheri: you know I wish we had a ton of time but we
24:08 don't, and I know that you God has accepted you
24:11 into Ministry where you are not only working with
24:13 addicts trying to educate the church.
24:15 Trying to get people to look at health things.
24:17 Working for Amazing Facts, I mean the story actually
24:21 unfolds in an incredible way.
24:23 Would you ever consider being on the program again?
24:26 Rich: oh sure, by all means.
24:28 Cheri: thank you so much for paying attention to God,
24:32 for being here, for sharing with us who you are and
24:35 what God has done in your life.
24:36 And thank you for taking time to fight for your
24:39 recovery every day doing the right thing.
24:41 Rich and Susan: thank you so much!
24:42 We are, I'm going to have a break, stay with us.
24:45 I want to kind of bring this whole thing to a close,
24:48 because there was a lot that was said today.
24:50 There was a lot that I want you to think about.
24:53 If you are stuck in addiction I want you to just
24:56 have the courage to just say, like Rich was saying,
24:59 God help me.
25:01 And you can say that for as long as you need
25:02 to say that, and God says, it doesn't have to
25:04 be more complicated.
25:05 I will pay attention every time you say it.
25:08 We will be right back, stay with us!