Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Kerry Laframboise
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000050A
00:10 Welcome to Celebrating Life in Recovery,
00:12 I'm Cheri your host!
00:13 Have you ever thought, I just do not know who I am?
00:16 Do you want figure out who that is?
00:18 We are going to talk about that on this program and
00:20 I just know that you will be blessed.
00:22 Come in and join us at the Café.
00:51 Welcome back!
00:52 I want to introduce you to a friend of mine, and I
00:54 want to really share a lot, everything about him, I want to
00:58 find what his past was like, I want you to hear about
01:02 his ministry, his job and all that kind of stuff.
01:04 So instead of doing the teaching segment first,
01:06 We're just going to start with the interview.
01:08 Man, I just know you're going be blessed.
01:11 So Kerry I just want to say thank you for coming.
01:14 I have been, the first time, I don't know if you
01:17 remember the first time I met you was a few years ago.
01:19 You were working in the Police Department and then I
01:23 met you again with a group at Saddleback Church where
01:26 you were doing the celebrate recovery thing.
01:27 Then I met you again where you are working with a
01:31 parolee, and each time I'm just saying who is this guy?
01:36 Who are you? So today I get to find out everything
01:38 along with the people at the Café, in the audience.
01:41 So welcome to the show and who are you?
01:44 Thank you very much and it's a pleasure to be here,
01:47 there's a lot of people who would like to know that.
01:48 My wife, my daughter's, my dog - Oh good so we'll
01:51 send them a copy of the show.
01:53 Ah, who am I?
01:55 I was raised in a home where we moved probably
01:59 3 or 4 times a year, from my earliest memories.
02:03 My mother was married several times.
02:04 She divorced my father when I was 2, and I didn't meet
02:08 him again until I was 10.
02:09 There was several men in and out of my life who
02:12 probably could have been potential fathers but weren't.
02:15 You know what's really interesting, because when I say
02:17 who are you, I would have never guessed that you had
02:21 even anything close to an at risk background.
02:26 That you moved a lot, and had all these men in your life,
02:29 and there was that instability, because every time
02:32 I have encountered you, your very solid in
02:35 God, very solid in who you are as a man of God with
02:38 integrity and so it shocks me when you say that,
02:41 it surprises me.
02:42 We think we know each other when we don't.
02:44 There is a whole lot of things in everybody's life,
02:46 because God's done incredible things in all of us.
02:49 Sometimes we realize it, and sometimes we don't.
02:50 And I see that in other people as well, were you
02:53 look at them and see them so solid and God is so
02:56 strong in them and then you start finding out that's
02:58 not where they started.
03:00 And that is not where I started.
03:01 I don't remember a lot before age 6.
03:05 But I remember a lot of physical abuse in the home
03:07 between my mother and her husband, whichever one it was.
03:10 Cheri: so she picked abusive men?
03:13 Consistently, and it wasn't until I became a teenager
03:17 that I got involved in that and stepped in and said don't do
03:20 this kind of stuff.
03:22 It was right about then, in my mid-teens,
03:24 that I started going for walks about midnight,
03:27 because I was just frustrated with my life
03:29 and what going on and I needed some answers.
03:30 I start going for walks and started hearing this voice
03:33 talk to me in the middle of the night, I didn't even
03:35 know who it was, but it was just as calming voice that
03:37 said you know what I love you and it's going to be okay.
03:39 It wasn't till I was about 15, and when I was 17
03:43 I moved to Boise Idaho and a Pastor sat down with me
03:47 and started talking to me.
03:48 And shared the love of Jesus with me, shared about God,
03:53 shared about the gospel.
03:54 And he said something that totally impacted me and has
03:57 impacted me for the rest of my life.
03:59 He said you have a purpose, you are not an accident.
04:02 God designed you for specific reason and you're the
04:05 only one that can do it, and I had never heard that.
04:08 And that got my attention.
04:10 And regardless of how many people are in and out of
04:12 your life, how crazy and chaotic everything was,
04:14 you said God knows where I'm at.
04:16 He has a plan for my life.
04:18 That gave me an anchor point, and from that point
04:20 forward I started allowing the men around me,
04:24 that were men of God, that were men of integrity,
04:26 to speak into my life.
04:28 Before that I was very rebellious, very out of control
04:31 so it was an absolute miracle, in fact the reason I was
04:33 talking to this Pastor, is because I started spending
04:36 some time with this girl at this church I was going to.
04:38 I went to church my whole life growing up just to
04:42 impress people and show them how many Scriptures
04:45 I knew, and kind of perform and do the thing but not really
04:48 knowing even who God was.
04:50 So I went to this church and started spending time with
04:52 this girl, started getting in a serious relationship
04:54 going and this Pastor sat me down to tell me that the
04:57 relationship wasn't based on biblical principles.
05:00 That I was a risk for this girl and he didn't want me
05:03 to spend any more time with her.
05:04 It is the first time that a man stepped in my life and said no.
05:09 Cheri: Here's some boundaries.
05:11 Kerry: here's some structure we are going to put around you.
05:13 I fought it and when I got home I heard that same voice
05:17 saying, I want you to follow this man, and every man
05:20 that I place over you and let them lead you.
05:23 Let them guide you and direct you, so that was the
05:26 beginning of the journey when I was 17.
05:27 It has just been a constant journey since then.
05:30 There is a lot of things that have happened, a lot of
05:32 men involved, but God just began teaching me and
05:35 building things into me that were things of integrity,
05:38 and things of strength and foundation.
05:41 Stuff that I had never had before.
05:42 Cheri: what about your folks, your siblings, any of
05:46 that? What did they think?
05:48 When I first accepted Jesus my family listed me as the
05:52 black sheep - it's like what are you doing!
05:55 You don't need a crutch like that, that's what I heard
05:57 from my family, what do you need a crutch like that for?
05:59 Why don't you go drink with us, why don't you go party
06:01 with us, why don't you go hang out with us?
06:03 My mother, in a drunken stupor one night sat down with
06:07 me and said, I don't know you and I don't want you
06:11 around anymore, you go away and I want my son back.
06:13 Because God had so changed my life and since then my
06:18 mother has accepted Jesus and is serving God with all
06:20 of her heart, it's awesome.
06:22 Cheri: I love that, but it's really tough because
06:26 you know when you bring God into that chaos it's
06:28 like it confronts everybody.
06:30 It's like you turn the light on and all the darkness
06:32 looks even darker, people just want you to go away.
06:35 So it's not that you became a freak or anything,
06:38 it's just that you have brought in some reality
06:39 and it scares everyone - including me, I didn't know,
06:44 I do deal with that.
06:45 Because this is my family that I love and I want to
06:47 spend time with and they were all throwing up the walls
06:49 and just go away, go away and stop preaching.
06:51 Some of them are still that way, a couple of them,
06:54 but most of them have seen I'm the only one in the
06:56 family that has the same address for the last
06:59 20 years, still living in the same house and
07:01 live in the same town.
07:02 I have a full-time job, I have a career,
07:04 I have things for a long time for the rest
07:07 of my family didn't even have.
07:08 I'm the only one, in 3 generations that I know of,
07:11 that got married to one lady and stayed with her.
07:15 Cheri: that's amazing.
07:16 Kerry: and we have been married now for 28 years.
07:19 Cheri: so the whole generational thing, at least in
07:21 your life, has stopped, we're okay.
07:25 God has got His hand on us.
07:27 You know your sister has been through a lot lately.
07:29 Can you talk a little bit about that?
07:31 My younger sister, she was abused when she was very
07:34 young and she was very shy and withdrawn partially
07:36 because of that and some other things.
07:38 She discovered drugs, she discovered cocaine first
07:41 and then methamphetamine gave her boldness,
07:45 it allowed her to come out of her shell.
07:47 Of course later as the bondage starts putting its claws
07:51 in it and it began to control her life, and so we
07:54 prayed for her, talked to her, tried to draw her in
07:56 and she didn't want to have anything to do with God.
07:58 She got into a very tragic accident probably about 10
08:02 years ago, it was a motorcycle accident and she almost
08:05 lost her foot because of it.
08:07 Cheri: when you talk about almost lost her foot,
08:09 you're talking...
08:11 Kerry: bones, muscles, tendons - everything - she was
08:13 walking around on a stump and her foot was hanging on
08:16 by a piece of skin, when they said you need to sit down.
08:19 So they took her to the hospital.
08:21 They knew she would never walk again, they didn't know
08:23 if they could put the foot back on.
08:24 But they did put the foot back on and she did walk,
08:26 and walks absolutely normal, totally healed
08:28 - that's amazing.
08:29 She got away from the addiction and started into
08:31 recovery, and started coming to church and
08:33 doing what was right.
08:35 Those old associations, and those old things begin
08:38 to draw her back and back she went.
08:40 Cheri: but when that happens don't you just want to
08:43 say no, don't you call them and don't you hang out.
08:46 And not that people are bad or good, but those will
08:48 suck you right back in, do not do it.
08:51 Don't think that way again, don't dress that way again,
08:54 and don't do all that kind of stuff, and I'm sure
08:56 because it was your sister, and I have had family
08:58 members of that has had to, and I just want to say,
09:00 Ah but what, you just can't stop them.
09:03 Kerry: I tried, I told her bad company
09:06 corrupts good morals, don't hang out with people
09:07 who are going to corrupt the standard you've got.
09:09 Of course I'm not, you understand I'm fine.
09:12 And little by little you see the eroding of those
09:15 standards and going back into that lifestyle.
09:18 So she did and was in it for several years.
09:20 Cheri: not wanting to talk with you or anybody at all.
09:23 Know if she was using, she would not hang around me.
09:25 If she wasn't using she would call and want to talk to me.
09:27 She was using a lot so we didn't talk very much.
09:30 About 6 months ago she got into a car accident where
09:35 she was thrown out of the car about 80 feet and she
09:38 landed, primarily, on her face.
09:39 So she broke like 86 bones an her face, broke her hip,
09:42 broke her leg, broke her collar bone, she just really
09:46 got messed up and should have died.
09:48 One of the first responders to the scene that found
09:52 her was holding onto her.
09:53 And this lady is not a Christian, but she heard a
09:57 voice saying, she's choking.
09:59 Dana had stopped breathing, stopped doing everything.
10:01 But she had a hold of her arm just squeezing and so
10:04 she turned her over and she started breathing again.
10:06 The blood and stuff came out of her mouth and she
10:09 basically saved her life.
10:10 They lost her 2 or 3 times on the flight
10:13 from northern Idaho to Boise.
10:16 When she got in the hospital she came to, out of the
10:19 coma, she knew that God had said, are you done yet?
10:23 I'm right here - and I just want to say something.
10:26 I know that you know this.
10:28 God did not cause the accident, didn't set it up,
10:31 It's just that He says, are you done yet?
10:34 You know God Himself I think at times says I can't
10:37 stand to see you even hurt anymore.
10:39 I can stand another drunk driving accident, or DUI,
10:42 or another child molested, or you in another bad relationship,
10:46 or all the sudden damaging your liver little bit more.
10:49 I can't stand it are you done yet?
10:51 Because I love you, and I feel like that is what
10:53 He said to her, are you done?
10:55 Luckily she said yes.
10:56 Kerry: she woke up from that and said I am done
10:58 and she is serving God.
11:00 She is walking, and going to church with us every Sunday.
11:03 Cheri: an her face looks - not my sister's face
11:07 from before, but she's beautiful - Amen!
11:09 You can see God's love shining out from her.
11:11 She is going through surgery still to correct
11:14 things, she has a few more big ones in front of
11:16 her but her heart is so in love with Jesus
11:20 - don't you just love that?
11:21 Yep - it's like oh, and that has got to be the best feeling.
11:24 I remember every once in awhile when I get to pray
11:27 with my family for what ever reason, there's a crisis
11:29 and they let me, I just almost tremble,
11:32 Oh, please hear God.
11:34 Turn it over.
11:36 Well it is interesting I talked to her about,
11:38 she wanted to talk to me, she said before I was
11:41 going to church because you was going to church,
11:42 I was doing the worship stuff because everyone else
11:45 was doing it because other people were doing it.
11:47 It wasn't my personal relationship with Jesus.
11:50 And now it is, He loves me and I love Him, this is
11:54 about Him and me, it's not about anybody else.
11:56 She said that is why I know I will never go back
11:59 - I'm okay now - yeah.
12:00 That's incredible, so coming from that background
12:03 and watching, even some family member choosing to
12:07 still live in addiction and all that kind of stuff,
12:09 and even her coming out of addiction, is where God
12:12 lead you from as far as employment, as far as where
12:16 you met your wife and all that kind of stuff.
12:19 I met my wife before I got saved at church camp up
12:22 where I live - because you were just going - yeah.
12:24 And my mom said go to this camp, so okay I went to
12:29 this camp and met this cute young girl there.
12:31 Started hanging out with her and found out she was from
12:32 Boise, so see we move all the time and sure enough my
12:35 mom said we are going to move again, Boise, I say Boise
12:38 That's okay, so I went to Boise and found her again
12:42 and start going to that church.
12:43 That is where met that Pastor, that is where he shared
12:45 the gospel with me and then my family moved again.
12:48 I told my mom no for the first time.
12:51 Cheri: I'm not going this time - I'm not going.
12:54 We had a big fight, she was very angry with me.
12:57 She said you're going, I said I'm not.
12:59 I'm not going I can't.
13:00 So she said you find a family that will take you and you
13:04 can stay, because she didn't think I would, and I did.
13:06 God opened up the door for Christian family that was
13:09 going to that same church and they took me into their
13:11 home, I don't know why they did.
13:12 Because I was a rebellious angry kid,
13:14 I would've done it.
13:15 Cheri: and you know what is really interesting and
13:17 I got to say it here is that I can't imagine you
13:19 as an angry rebellious kid, so what did that
13:22 look like for you.
13:23 Because every time I have seen you, every time I
13:25 have come in and out of your life throughout the years,
13:28 you have been gentle and even almost quiet in the
13:32 way you come across.
13:34 So what did angry, rebellious look like to you?
13:37 With the lack of father figure, with the constant
13:40 moving and not building relationships, and not knowing
13:43 how to build relationships, because we're constantly
13:45 in a point of transition.
13:47 Constantly going to the new school were your the new
13:48 kid, so you know you're the victim,
13:50 you're going to have to walk to that whole thing again.
13:52 That and other things cause such a frustration and anger
13:56 that I was mad at everybody.
13:59 I was mad at the world, I didn't care about anybody.
14:02 I used to tell the guys on my caseload, when I was
14:05 supervisor on probation parole, if God had gotten a hold
14:08 of me when I was 17 I would have been dead or in prison.
14:11 I know I would have - right because you were going in
14:13 that direction - oh yeah.
14:14 So this family says, you know what you can stay here.
14:17 Set some boundaries I'm sure - they did, they set
14:21 some boundaries which I broke all of.
14:22 I start hanging out at this church, and hanging out
14:27 with this cute girl and this Pastor sat me down and
14:29 said it's all done, you have to be done with that,
14:32 you just have to.
14:33 So I went home, God told me to obey so I did.
14:36 I came back and he sat down and began tutoring me
14:38 and teaching me how to be a man of God.
14:41 He walked that pretty girl and I threw premarital
14:45 counseling and that's my wife - for 28 years.
14:48 One of the things that God did to do the gentleness,
14:50 it's I have 4 daughters and no sons.
14:53 So I live in a home with one wife, 4 daughters,
14:56 1 bathroom where we have been for the last 20 years
14:59 and God surrounded me with women so I would have
15:02 to be gentle, I would have to be calm.
15:05 He helped train that out of me if you will.
15:09 You talked a little earlier about probation parole,
15:13 what is that, what do you mean by that, and how did
15:15 God lead you into that direction?
15:17 That's was pretty fascinating,
15:18 I did a lot of different jobs.
15:19 I did a car washing job, did dish washing,
15:22 did all sorts of different odd jobs.
15:24 And then I got a job working for a company where I was
15:27 a liaison between some drivers for long haul trailers.
15:31 Pulling trailers all over the United States
15:33 from Boise Idaho.
15:35 I was working with them and one of the guys in the
15:37 church said, "hey the prison is hiring. "
15:39 We need to put in an application, I said I spent half
15:42 my life running away from cops, I don't want to be one.
15:44 He said no I really think the Lord is in this, we need
15:47 to go put in the application.
15:49 Well that rat, I don't even think he put in his
15:50 application, but I went and put mine in - that's funny.
15:53 I put my application in and they called me for an
15:55 interview, so I told them where I worked that out was
15:57 going to go for this silly little interview for a
15:59 little bit and I would be back, don't worry about it.
16:01 Because I don't want the job.
16:02 So I go to the interview and they want to hire me.
16:04 And I go back to my job and they say, we are really
16:06 glad the interview went well because we are going to
16:08 have to let you go - you are kidding me!
16:11 That's what I said, you are kidding me.
16:13 No, we looked at our records and we are in the red
16:15 and you are one of the last ones hired so we are really
16:18 glad you are going to go to work for the prison.
16:19 I don't want to go to work for the prison,
16:21 so I went to work for the prison.
16:23 Cheri: that is hysterical, don't you think God is funny?
16:26 Kerry: Oh, He's hilarious!
16:28 Cheri: to me I think God was just saying eventually he
16:31 is going to get that I set this up.
16:33 Kerry: Yep and I didn't, I fought it for awhile.
16:35 The whole 5 weeks I'm in the academy being training to do
16:39 handcuffing, arrest techniques, fire arms and all that
16:41 stuff, it's kind of cool training but I'm like what am I
16:43 doing here, this is not what I want to do with my life.
16:46 I had been doing a lot of evangelism while I was
16:49 doing those other jobs.
16:50 I would be on the streets on the weekend talking
16:52 to guys and telling them about God.
16:54 When I walked into the prison, my first day on the job,
16:57 some of those same guys were there as prisoners.
17:01 They thought I followed them in - exactly it's like
17:04 were you doing here.
17:05 So they started meeting me when I was on shift,
17:07 with their Bibles asking me questions because
17:09 they knew who I was.
17:11 As a state employee that gets a little bit interesting.
17:14 Cheri: it's really discouraged on to bring God into the
17:20 picture with all that kind of stuff - yes.
17:21 So I was in the lieutenants office and she said,
17:24 what are you doing with the inmates?
17:25 I said, I'm doing work crews, I'm helping, she said
17:29 that is not what I'm talking about.
17:31 What's this Bible thing?
17:32 Well they know me from before and they know
17:35 that I'm a Christian so they bring me their
17:37 Bibles and ask me questions.
17:38 Well you can't do that.
17:40 I said, with all due respect my job as a correctional
17:43 officer is to use my life experience to prepare them
17:47 for the outside and there is only one thing I'm good at,
17:50 and that is God, that is all I know.
17:52 So they are asking me something that I know and
17:54 I am answering their questions,
17:56 is that against the rules?
17:57 Come to find out that Lieutenant was
17:58 a back slidden Christian. - wow!
18:01 She was very concerned for me that I was going to
18:04 get ganged by the offenders and get disorientated and walk
18:07 away from God like she did.
18:08 I ended up helping her recommit her life to the Lord in
18:11 her office that day - that's incredible - and then she
18:14 was my most staunch protector from that point forward.
18:18 And God had you doing what you were doing and it's okay.
18:21 Kerry: as long as I stay within the policy of the
18:23 department - exactly - and so I did.
18:25 I was there for about 2 years and then I moved to
18:28 probation parole which is where met Max and
18:31 a bunch of other guys.
18:32 You know the first time I heard you say that you are
18:34 going from this environment to move in here, is that
18:37 you said that all of a sudden those same guys that are
18:39 in jail are right in front of me again.
18:41 It was because they started getting out on parole -
18:43 exactly- so I was there talking to them,
18:45 and I went here than they all started showing up here,
18:47 it was incredible.
18:48 And so for people who haven't seen the program with you and
18:53 Max who is Max and when you say that is where I met Max
18:56 Max Rivera is one of the guys that came out of prison
18:59 and on to my caseload, one of many.
19:01 But God did something different with Max and I,
19:04 He built a relationship.
19:06 When Max came out I talked to him like other guys,
19:10 I invited him to church, like a lot of other guys.
19:13 Max is one of the few that actually came.
19:14 He start coming church and started learning about God.
19:16 I'm not sure of all of his reasons for coming, but I
19:20 knew God was - I think he was playing you at first.
19:21 Kerry: it's a very strong possibility.
19:24 You know we had a saying with probation parole, our
19:29 bosses would say you have to be careful not get gamed.
19:31 And we know because we are around those offenders
19:33 all the time, they are going to game us, they are going
19:36 to game us a lot, but our hope is in gaming us and
19:40 doing those things they eventually see the
19:42 fruitlessness of that and the fruitfulness of
19:44 living a pro-social life.
19:45 You know I just have to tell you, I was interviewing
19:49 this guy that just got out of prison.
19:51 He said, you know I found out that the parole board
19:55 likes to have little certificates, you know they just
19:58 like to know you completed something and all that.
20:00 He said, So I took a Bible study class because at the
20:05 end of that they gave you your certificate and I was a
20:08 come in with this certificate and just know that I am
20:12 going to impress them.
20:13 He said, do you know God caught me, so I think that
20:18 what you are saying that during that time, regardless
20:20 of the game that you are aware of that, set some
20:24 boundaries and watch them grow through that.
20:26 Right, God says, that God's word does not return void.
20:29 It will accomplish what He sent it to do.
20:31 So I was hoping and praying that the seeds that we
20:35 were planting and those young men's lives, were going
20:37 to bear fruit, and in Max Rivera's life it did.
20:39 And several other young men's lives it did.
20:41 They heeded the call and start following God and
20:45 starting turning their life over.
20:47 Max's story is incredible, he's done phenomenal things.
20:49 He is on the governor's task force for gang related
20:52 issues in Idaho.
20:53 He led a Cin?co de Ma?yo?event where he did an outreach
20:56 in the parks to the gangs.
20:58 You know when you talk about Max and doing that,
21:02 this is a guy that was facing like 80 years in prison.
21:06 This is a guy that could walk off and leave you for
21:10 dead and not think twice about it.
21:12 And this is a guy whose whole family was Mafia involved.
21:15 You actually walked into this home and would mentor him.
21:19 So when you say he did this with the governor,
21:23 with Cin?co de Ma?yo?Day and the stuff I want people
21:27 get the feel of, and we're going to meet Max in the next
21:30 segment, but I want people to get a feel, this is incredible.
21:33 Absolutely, it's a miracle.
21:35 When you talk about the government's tasks force thing,
21:39 what is that about?
21:41 There is a gang issue in Idaho and for many years
21:44 Idahoans did not want to see that and they didn't want
21:47 to recognize it, but eventually they had to because
21:50 it had gotten out of control.
21:51 So now they are looking for solutions to how to
21:53 minister to the gangs, how to meet their needs,
21:55 how to deal with this gang issue.
21:57 Well Max Rivera today is a man who was part of the
22:01 gangs, but now it's a mighty man of God.
22:03 He knows Biblical principles and he knows what those
22:06 gang members need.
22:07 The rest of the programs that come up, although they
22:10 are good at dealing with some of the symptoms,
22:12 they can't deal with the heart issues
22:14 and Max knows that God can.
22:16 You know I go ahead and take a break because I want to
22:18 break and come back and talk about, for one I want to
22:23 talk about you in your take on why did he respond to you.
22:28 Why did he respond in such a way, why did he stand up
22:32 and how did he get the strength underneath him
22:34 and why did the other guys too.
22:35 And I know the answer to that, because I know you right!
22:38 But I want to talk about that, I want to meet Max.
22:40 I want to talk about some things that you maybe you can
22:44 encourage even the church to do that, it's a little different
22:47 when people come in the door and then I want to find out
22:49 what you are doing now because you have another gig now.
22:50 It is not probation parole - right!
22:54 So we are going to be right back, stay tuned and I
22:56 want you as you listen to this testimony, as you
23:00 listen to this story, as you hear from the
23:02 point of view of Kerry about these guys and
23:07 how God has moved in Kerry's life.
23:08 I want you just think about God and your
23:11 own life and just say, you know what I want the
23:13 same thing in my life.
23:14 I want you to move in my life the same way, well not the
23:17 same way you know what I mean.