Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Keeslers
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000017
00:10 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recover.
00:11 I'm Cheri your host and today we are going to learn how
00:14 to live a life of recovery every day.
00:16 With meaning and joy and interest, so come and join us.
00:48 I love life, but for years I spent trying to figure out
00:53 recovery, I went to counseling, I went to groups,
00:56 I went to pastors and I got self-help books.
00:59 I wanted to be normal so bad that I got every book on the
01:03 shelf, I will go to the self-help section.
01:06 You know that section is growing every year.
01:09 I went there and found books on how to socialize,
01:12 books on how to speak to people, I have books on
01:15 Depression and how to deal with molestation issues.
01:18 How to get over memory stuff, how to deal with anger.
01:20 I didn't even know I was angry at first, somebody said
01:24 Cheri, I was born to drug addict parents, I was homeless
01:28 for 10 years, I was a strung out on heroin and when I
01:31 got into recovery the consular said were you ever angry?
01:33 I said no, he was like oh my goodness.
01:36 He thought I was in such denial, then he taught me that
01:41 I was angry and I was angry for year.
01:43 I thought I have a right to be angry now.
01:45 He said to start writing angry notes to folks, if they did
01:49 something to me write it down.
01:50 I would start not thinking I was that angry and I would
01:54 start writing and by the end of the letter my blood
01:57 pressure is up in my face is red and I had the veins
02:00 sticking out of my head.
02:01 I did all that kind of stuff, I took antidepressants,
02:06 I took herbs, I took vitamins, I changed my eating
02:10 habits and I learn to exercise.
02:12 I thought about learning to exercise.
02:15 I did every single thing and I found out after years
02:21 and years of just searching for how to do it myself and
02:27 that God has a plan.
02:30 This section of the show we are going to talk about the
02:34 Holy Spirit in recovery and a scripture for this series
02:38 is Psalms 51 and I'm going to read verse 10 today.
02:41 Verse 10 says "create in me a clean heart oh God and renew
02:45 "a right spirit within me, a steadfast spirit within me. "
02:49 I'm thinking creating me a clean heart.
02:52 I had never had that, I was molested all my life.
02:55 I was trashed all my life. I had issues all my life.
02:58 When somebody said act normal or think right,
03:03 what does that mean? I don't know how to do that.
03:06 I do not know what that means and so we are going to
03:09 talk today about the Holy Spirit and what He offers us.
03:12 I'm going to introduce you to the guests that are here,
03:15 to people that we are going to interview.
03:17 Jim and Lori if we are going to interview you today and
03:19 hear all about your stories, Jim I love you and I am so
03:22 glad that you are here.
03:24 Sam, thank you for coming. Heather, Curly - hi there.
03:27 - how are you doing? - I'm doing good, doing good.
03:30 You know you have been on other shows and when you're
03:33 on other shows all the tattoos that you had on your
03:36 face and neck and hands were much darker, but we are
03:38 working on getting those removed with
03:40 Dr. Steven Popkow in California.
03:44 So I wanted people to see. I'm getting lighter every day
03:48 and end the only fellow that can disappear and reappear
03:52 at the same time. So I have had four treatments on all
03:55 the tattoos that have been removed, neck and face.
03:58 We just started the eyelids, hands are going to come off,
04:02 the tattoos not the hands.
04:03 And I need those thumbs so it's come a long good.
04:09 I mean I haven't looked from when I started to now
04:14 because I want until the end, but from other people what
04:17 they are telling me it is a drastic change and
04:19 I'm getting lighter every day.
04:20 I went with you the first treatment and saw you when they
04:24 first did the laser that looks so incredibly painful.
04:28 Horrible, horrible I mean the pain.
04:30 The first treatment is the worst one, they still hurt
04:33 tremendously. - they actually take lasers?
04:36 It is the green laser and for the first three treatments
04:39 it is set four millimeter which is a big hit with the
04:43 laser and I have now switched it to 2 mm hits which is
04:45 more intense think it's in there to get the darker lines
04:50 out. It's bloody situation, at first it was more like a
04:54 burn, but now there is more blood involved.
04:57 The pain I have learned to tolerate it but it still hurts.
04:59 I don't scream as much as I did in the first session
05:03 when you were there.
05:04 I was there on the first section I and I have to tell you is
05:07 that when he hit especially your lips and a part of your
05:10 face, that the pain was so intense that I felt like it
05:13 physically hit me from across the room.
05:15 You had to scream on that one. Oh yeah it was just
05:19 painful and since this has been on 3ABN a lot of people
05:23 come up to me and tell me like hey, there is some other
05:27 products out there that you don't have to use a laser.
05:29 There is some cream you can put on your arm that is
05:32 supposed to make the tattoo go away.
05:34 I asked the doctor and he said don't use it has some
05:39 acid in their and it will burn your skin and leave a scar.
05:42 I even had this one fellow come up to me and told me if
05:46 you inject goats milk, if you inject goats milk into your
05:50 tattoo it will make your tattoo disappear.
05:52 I tried it. Did it work? No, it didn't do anything.
05:58 But I got rid of my lawnmower and I am eating a lot more
06:01 grass and I don't have the mow the yard as often.
06:03 I'm serious that's true story, the guy told me to inject
06:06 goats milk but you have to be careful here.
06:10 You do want to go to a doctor because there are other
06:12 people that are buying these machines that are not
06:14 doctors, and a tattoo shop around here a guy has a laser
06:18 machine and is a Piercist doing these tattoos using
06:23 a laser on these people.
06:24 I have talked to people and it is not working.
06:26 The doctor said you have to go through a doctor, so
06:28 anybody watching go to a doctor that is licensed to do this.
06:31 You can get scarred up or hurt, and infection,
06:34 you need to go to a professional.
06:36 Let me just ask you, why remove your tattoos?
06:40 What does that mean to you?
06:41 A chance to start over, once these tattoos are gone
06:45 I have to deal with everything that has been hidden
06:50 underneath them and it is a big old mess
06:52 let me tell you what.
06:54 - but God can do that as well as remove the tattoos.
06:58 - I know He can, God has taken this every step of the way.
07:01 - even with your plane flights,
07:03 getting you to California.
07:05 - yes two days ago I got a treatment and I didn't know
07:08 if I was going to go or not because I didn't have any
07:11 plane tickets, people have been helping me out, you have
07:13 been helping me out to get my plane tickets.
07:15 Other people have been coming up and helping me out.
07:17 I didn't know if I was going to go, I got up in the
07:19 morning and after having a pity party the night before
07:21 thinking here we go, I'm half way through this thing
07:23 and now it's not going to work.
07:25 I got up and got my Bible out, read the Bible and
07:28 prayed about it and within two hours I had my plane
07:32 tickets for the next one plus two more plane tickets
07:36 so I'm good to go.
07:37 Where I love God Curly, on another show I'm going to
07:41 just talked to you, because I think you are amazing
07:45 and what God is doing in your life is amazing.
07:47 And Jonathan we are going to talk about your testimony
07:50 today and your choices to come to God.
07:52 One of the things I would really like to hear is that
07:55 every single one of us has a journey.
07:58 And some it is very physical, you can look at Curly and
08:02 have to say, oh man, but all of us have stuff that God
08:06 works on, and the stuff is bigger than we are capable
08:10 of healing, it's bigger than I can understand.
08:13 Bible says lean not unto your own understanding because
08:16 you can't understand that but I will give you the Holy
08:19 Spirit and I am so glad that God sends the Holy Spirit to
08:23 direct us in our recovery.
08:24 And going back to the first part of my recovery,
08:27 I remember just feeling like I was working too hard.
08:31 I was reading all these books and doing all this stuff
08:35 and I finally said God, this should not be so hard.
08:39 He said it isn't.
08:41 I'm thinking, really because it feels hard to me.
08:45 The Bible says, this is the amplified in Matthew.
09:02 I was not feeling refreshed, I was not feeling rested.
09:07 I was not feeling that that was true and I remember
09:11 thinking, God you have to help me here.
09:15 We're going to listen as they go through the show and see how
09:21 God does that, there is a surrender to Him that I had to
09:24 do, I had to come to a place and say you know what God?
09:27 I'm going to give it up. I'm going to give it to You.
09:30 Curly do you remember when you said the
09:32 plane tickets were not there?
09:33 You wanted to pick up the phone and call everybody.
09:36 I want to figure it out, I want to go to another group,
09:39 get another book and God says that takes time away from
09:43 Me being able to pour into you.
09:44 If you come to Me first, I promise you I will lead you
09:49 into a direction where you will find strength.
09:52 I'm thinking come to You first, I want to do something
09:55 I want to figure this out and God finally lets me do it
09:58 and 10 years later and guess what I'm saying?
10:00 This shouldn't be so hard, but God says come to Me first.
10:06 I just want to say if you are dealing with anything,
10:09 go to God first, ask Him for the Holy Spirit.
10:13 Ask Him to baptize you in the Holy Spirit and we have
10:16 talked about that throughout this show.
10:20 God every day fill me up, every day.
10:24 I need guidance from You every single day before my feet
10:27 hit the ground, before I come up with a thought in
10:30 my head or a direction to go, fill me up.
10:33 Tell me, the Bible says I will tell you whether to go
10:36 right or left, and I am thinking I know whether to go
10:40 right or left, and He is like yeah,
10:42 look back at your life.
10:43 Which direction right or left?
10:46 Don't trust yourself at all, especially in the first
10:48 part of recovery, especially in the first part of
10:51 life changes, ask Him.
10:52 You know I don't even know how to think, God how do
10:54 I think, how do I do this?
10:57 When God finally says this is how you do it, this is how
11:00 you think how I found out that after I turned it over to
11:03 God, I thought I was going to grieve at some of the
11:06 things that were leaving my life, but He poured so much
11:09 into me that I started to like being in my own skin.
11:13 I started to like who I was, I started to laugh and it
11:16 wasn't put on, I could laugh out loud and it was good.
11:20 When God says I want to give you life, and life
11:23 abundantly, I want you to enjoy waking up in the morning.
11:27 I want you to enjoy hanging out with folks and we can't
11:31 do that with all our garbage.
11:33 I don't even know what my garbage looks like.
11:34 God says if you turn it over to Me, I will gently show
11:37 you what your garbage looks like and I will pour into
11:40 you My Holy Spirit and show you what health looks like.
11:43 What love looks like, what life looks like, and what
11:46 laughter and joy feels like.
11:48 I'm thinking man, I love that.
11:49 We are going to be right back and I'm going to introduce you
11:52 to Lori and Jim and Jonathan and we are going to find
11:54 out how God has worked in their life because every one of
11:59 us has a story and every one of us has something to show
12:03 about how God has worked in their life and who
12:06 God is in their life.
12:07 Stay with us it is amazing, absolutely amazing.
12:10 We'll be right back.
12:17 Think you've seen it all? Think again.
12:20 Cheri Peters is back for a second season of
12:24 Celebrating Life In Recovery with more lives
12:27 more stories and more miracles.
12:30 Watch the shocking, inspiring, and the incredible.
12:34 Check your local listings to find out when
12:36 Celebrating Life In Recovery comes to you and get
12:40 ready for another dose of reality, Cheri style.
12:58 This is my favorite part of the show when we get to
13:00 interview the guest, but before we go there I want to
13:02 finish off with what Matthew said.
13:04 He goes on to say in Matthew 11:28.
13:08 Not to learn about your molest or your dysfunction
13:11 or your fears or even how to be normal, He says learn
13:15 of Me for I am gentle and meek.
13:38 I thought how incredible that is.
13:40 God says that even with all of our stuff, with all our
13:45 junk, He says yoke up with Me and it will be easy.
13:49 We are going to talk with Jim and Lori now and I want to
13:53 say thank you so much for being here on the show with us.
13:56 Thank you for having us.
13:58 I've known you for a couple of years now and been blessed
14:01 by your testimony and I have loved hanging out with you.
14:05 Lori I have to say that we met at Black Hills
14:08 - health and education Center - yes and I went there
14:11 to get healthy, who would have thought it?
14:16 I went there and you were working on staff doing what?
14:19 I was in the kitchen, assistant cook.
14:22 And you are teaching us how to cook. - yes.
14:25 Because I had no idea how to cook healthy, so teaching
14:28 us how to cook healthy and how to prepare stuff.
14:31 Every night I would get ready to go to sleep and hear
14:35 this knock on the door and it was
14:39 Lori, she would come in and tell me the most incredible
14:43 stories and then tuck me in and say prayer and leave.
14:46 I thought how fun is this.
14:48 So I want for people to get an idea what that was.
14:51 I want you to tell one of your stories, but I want you
14:54 to tell it like you told me because you are a good
14:57 storyteller. - okay.
15:00 You want me to tell the tree story first? Sangooma- yes.
15:03 This is actually Bill's Liversige story.
15:07 I love this story because this to me shows that God
15:12 people think that witnessing is this boring door to
15:17 door, meeting strangers and really scary.
15:21 But God has creative ways to get His message
15:24 across to other people.
15:26 Bill was a pastor, he was a missionary in Papua New Guinea
15:32 for 10 years and he said this is the funniest thing
15:35 that happened to him and was the most awesome,
15:37 one of the most awesome.
15:39 He was in what he calls a walk- about, he's from Australia and
15:43 with him was a man learning the ropes of being a missionary in
15:48 Papua New Guinea, the cultural does and don'ts.
15:52 Things they can offend and things they can get away with.
15:55 So here he is in Papua New Guinea and he said one thing
15:59 you noticed about the people of Papua New Guinea is that
16:02 they had their hair cut and their fingernails cut but you
16:05 never saw them doing it.
16:07 He said he was on this walkabout and the women,
16:13 by the way, had their head shaved bald.
16:18 The men in heathen New Guinea the bigger their wig,
16:22 the more wives they had, the bigger their wig the more
16:26 prestige that they had in the village.
16:28 So here he is walking with this man and here's a word he
16:33 never heard before, sangooma and he said it was said with
16:37 fear, he was wondering what was up with that.
16:40 He had never heard that word before.
16:42 So he is walking in the village and they came to this
16:45 clearing where there is a hundred men naked and covered
16:48 in pigs grease and they are dancing wildly.
16:53 Over in the corner is the little man who had the eyes of a
16:57 sorcerer and in front of him was what I call a primitive
17:02 rotisserie and you see the chickens in the grocery store
17:06 going round and round.
17:07 Well this was a sweet potato and on the rotisserie was
17:11 a sweet potato which is called a cow-cow.
17:13 When you cook it is called a mow-mow so when you are
17:15 hungry you mow-mow your cow-how cow.
17:17 In the sweet potato are fingernail and hair and a vine
17:23 tied around the middle.
17:26 As a sweet potato cooked, well Bill is a very bold,
17:30 well the Bible says God will give us boldness to go out.
17:35 He said what is happening here anyway?
17:37 And as this little man waddles over and he said in the next
17:42 village is a man who is very sick.
17:45 He is so sick, and his wife leans over and says what is
17:50 wrong? He says one word, sangooma.
17:53 She nearly starts crying because in heathen New Guinea
17:58 if you have something against someone you follow them
18:02 to the secret place in the jungle where they bury their
18:05 fingernails and hair and you dig it up and take it to
18:09 the sangooma man, he worked sangooma and they die.
18:12 Bill said as the sweet potato cooked the vine got closer
18:17 and closer and the sweet potato fell into the fire and
18:22 the little man waddles over and says the man is dead.
18:27 Bill said no way, you can't kill a man that way.
18:31 You do go to the next village and see.
18:33 So he does and sure enough he hears the wailing.
18:39 In heathen New Guinea they wail, it's an exaggerated
18:44 crying so he goes to the chief and says what's happening
18:48 here? He said a man is dead.
18:51 What time did he die? Same time. What did he die of?
18:55 What was the man's name? Same name.
18:57 What did he die of? Sangooma.
19:00 Bill said you could have knocked him over with a feather.
19:03 He is walking through the village after talking with the
19:07 chief, he loves gardening and they have 400 varieties of
19:11 orchids in New Guinea that are nowhere else in the world.
19:15 I bet that's beautiful. - they are beautiful.
19:18 He comes to this tree and the fruit of the tree
19:21 would take two men facing each other to go around
19:24 one piece of fruit.
19:25 Bill goes wow, I've never seen fruit like that before.
19:29 He goes to touch the tree and this little guy comes out
19:33 and says, don't put your hand on this tree.
19:36 He says why, it's just a tree?
19:38 He said oh no, this is the sangooma tree.
19:41 No one has ever lived who has touched the sangooma tree.
19:47 What he thought was fruit were smoked bodies and that is
19:52 how the sangooma man worked power over the people.
19:56 So Bill said it that is when he got first of two
20:00 very creative ideas,
20:03 and the man was with him was very cautious.
20:05 So much so that Bill couldn't believe he was going to be
20:08 a missionary in Papua New Guinea.
20:10 At this time they still had the pygmies, the cannibals
20:13 that would kill people and everything.
20:16 He said, let's put our sleeping bags under the tree
20:21 touch the tree and see what happens.
20:24 - could you believe everybody in the village was like!
20:27 No, nobody's ever done that.
20:29 No, he was just telling this guy.
20:31 The guy said you go right ahead but I'm not touching that
20:35 tree, and Bill said I'm kind of persuasive so as we put
20:38 our sleeping bags under the tree the kudu drums began to beat,
20:43 they didn't have telephones in the little village.
20:46 Um dee bum, bum, bum dee bum, bum.
20:50 And they would beat all night long.
20:51 Bill said one of the disappoint- ments was he never learned
20:54 the language of drums, they probably wouldn't have slept
20:56 so well if I had learned it.
20:58 He said I'm a night owl and I function very well at night.
21:01 The next morning very early he hears voices, hundreds
21:07 maybe a thousand voices all around.
21:09 He said what is up with this?
21:11 It occurred to him that they were here for the ceremony
21:14 and that is when he got his second very creative idea.
21:18 He said I got another idea saying to the guy with him.
21:22 Like I said shut up because he heard the voices too.
21:25 He said no this is very good let's pretend we're dead.
21:31 So here they are, the chief sends this man over to see if
21:36 they are dead and Bill said the sleeping bag was pulled
21:41 over their heads, so the little guy puts his hand where
21:45 their heads would be, they're both dead.
21:48 Bill said how he knew I'll never know.
21:51 Anyway, the chief said no remove the calico because he
21:56 didn't know what a sleeping bag was.
21:57 So the man slowly puts his pig greased hand sliding it
22:01 over Bill's face and Bill said I did the first thing
22:05 I can think of, I sat up very quickly and went boo.
22:09 He said before you could snap fingers all those hundreds
22:14 of people were in the jungle and behind every Sago Palm
22:19 and every bush looking at the little guy.
22:22 No one had ever lived who had touched this tree.
22:25 Bill said we laughed and laughed and laughed for about 10
22:29 minutes, because the little guy that touched him jumped
22:32 about 6 foot in the air before he went into the jungle.
22:35 So now the chief comes out and he said the New Guinea
22:39 people have a wonderful sense of humor.
22:41 He came out and he goes, talk savvy with me one talk,
22:45 because he spoke their language, he said how is it that you touch
22:50 that tree and you are still alive?
22:53 He knew that no power, no spirit in his village could have
22:57 kept him alive from touching that tree.
23:00 He told them the story of PaPa who was on top, and Jesus
23:05 and told them the story of salvation and Jesus coming to
23:09 this world and dying on the cross.
23:11 He said we have to hold evangelist meetings.
23:14 He said they knew that our God was more powerful then
23:19 their spirits and now the sangooma man has no power in
23:24 the village and if you go there on Sabbath morning there
23:28 are people in their white robes and worshiping.
23:33 - so they're not naked? - they're not naked and they
23:36 are ready to meet Jesus when He comes.
23:38 When she came in and told me these stories, what was
23:41 amazing to me in that story was so incredible,
23:43 I realize for myself my years of damage or believe.
23:51 They believe so much that they would die when they touch
23:53 the tree that they died, and I believe so much that
23:55 I would never be well, I could never change, I could
23:58 never get over the attachment disorders and
24:00 bondage disorders and drug addiction or whatever until
24:03 I met a God that says you won't die, I can heal you.
24:07 Every story you told me, when you would leave the
24:11 Holy Spirit would just talk to me.
24:13 That is how we met is through your stories.
24:15 I'm like little kid, I would lay down and think,
24:19 where is she? I haven't heard her knocking.
24:23 So I just loved you, I loved your stories and someday
24:27 I'm hoping you will have your own show just telling
24:31 stories would be fun.
24:33 So Jim I want you to talk, I also heard your testimony
24:37 during that time in our you to tell us where you came from
24:41 and what was your walk with God like?
24:43 Because you had to give up some stuff too.
24:46 My mother was about 14 years old when she got pregnant.
24:52 She put my older brother up for adoption right after he
24:57 was born and from what I understand she basically went
25:01 from pillar to post as the expression goes, she didn't
25:05 have a lot of normalcy herself.
25:07 She got pregnant when she was about 16 and was in
25:11 Richmond Virginia and I was born about six months later.
25:16 I understand I was about 10 weeks early and when I was a
25:20 few months old. - you was born at home? - yes.
25:29 They found out I had cerebral palsy so I added that to a
25:34 long list of other crazy things that I went through
25:39 growing up and dealing with the CP.
25:41 When you were a kid with cerebral palsy did you need
25:46 assistance in walking? Are any of that stuff?
25:50 When I was very small I had night braces that did not
25:53 bend at the knee and then I had day braces that did.
25:57 I remember the night braces were very painful because
26:02 I had muscles spasms and issues with flexibility so I did
26:08 not like wearing those night braces.
26:10 Because your mom was a kid, how did
26:13 she deal with your CP? How did she deal with all that?
26:17 I think she thought he was basically normal that he will
26:21 outgrow this and he will be okay.
26:23 I guess in a sense you could say I turned out okay,
26:27 but it was not okay growing up.
26:29 It was tough, but there were a lot of things I had to go
26:33 through, a lot of growing, a lot of things I had to deal
26:36 with. - she had different people coming in and out of
26:40 her life because of her relationship addictions.
26:42 Was she a drinker, or did she have any of that?
26:44 As far as I can remember she did not have issues with
26:50 drugs or drinking until I was about six years old and my
26:55 mother married a man in the Virginia area who became what
26:59 I knew as my stepfather.
27:02 They got involved heavily in drinking and drugs and going
27:06 out at night and getting into trouble.
27:08 So when you were six what did you do at night?
27:11 I was left alone by myself and it got to be such a normal
27:17 for me thing that I would set the alarm and get myself up
27:22 make my own breakfast and get ready for school.
27:26 From what I can remember, one time when my mother and
27:31 stepfather got arrested for breaking into a place, they
27:36 didn't even tell the policeman that they had
27:38 a handicapped child at home.
27:40 - they got arrested and were in jail?
27:42 Right, and they didn't tell anybody.
27:45 I was a week, maybe two weeks by myself before
27:49 anybody figured it out.
27:51 You are taking care of yourself, getting all your meals
27:53 getting to school and doing all that? - right.
27:55 You did it? - right, I think the teachers got suspicious
27:59 because I didn't change clothes often enough.
28:01 What's interesting to me is when you say that is that
28:06 there are kids that are doing that and nobody knows and
28:10 until all the sudden, like you said, didn't you wear that
28:14 same shirt all week long or whatever.
28:16 The child has to play it off, I met a child in her first
28:20 grade that was stealing food to eat so that stuff happens.
28:24 When you tell the story and you are saying this right now,
28:28 there is a part of me that says it is hard to believe
28:31 that people or kids are having to learn that.
28:35 You are very self-reliant.
28:37 Also he had a woman at the CP school, she is still in his
28:44 life, her name is Ingo Horvitz.
28:47 She lives in Richmond Virginia and see was the
28:50 occupational therapist at the school.
28:52 She has known Jim since he was four or five years old and
28:59 she said Lori I started taking notes on him and his life.
29:05 She has bought him things, she was very excited when we
29:11 were married and had our children.
29:13 We saw her this summer, we went to visit her.
29:17 She is so amazed, knowing his background.
29:24 So did you get any kind of Christianity,
29:30 any of that growing up?
29:32 No, when I was small I only heard about God in a negative
29:37 way as far as the swearing and that kind of thing.
29:40 No Christian training or anything.
29:42 So I really admire people that have the Christian home
29:47 and I am glad that everybody doesn't have to go through
29:52 what I did. - yeah, because sometimes when I started
29:56 listening to some of the more normal lives and heard
29:59 people talking about being loved and being wrapped up
30:03 and held as a baby, or loved on as a little kid and
30:06 there was a part of me that would tear up and say
30:09 I wonder what that feels like?
30:11 And the same with you is I wonder what that feels like
30:13 because you didn't know.
30:14 Well your mom loved you, she loved you.
30:17 By then he was raised by foster care.
30:19 - how did you get in foster care?
30:21 When I was about eight years old my mother and stepfather
30:27 were arrested, after they've figured out I was by myself
30:32 then they put me in foster care.
30:35 What were your foster folks like?
30:37 Most of them were very nice and I think they did the best
30:41 they could, I don't want to make anyone think they were
30:46 all bad or anything like that.
30:47 I never really felt part of their family.
30:50 When you say most of them, you were with more than one
30:52 foster family? - right, about eight.
30:55 - about eight! - yes. - oh shut up.
30:57 You poor thing, I just want to grab you and say I'm so
31:00 sorry, because there is a part of me that says God does
31:03 have to come in and change a lot of things, but the
31:06 damage that happened to a child that is not loved and
31:09 passed around and not belonging is absolutely huge.
31:13 There is something so to the core of who you are that
31:18 doesn't get nurtured or fed.
31:21 How did you survive those?
31:23 Well I think that God gave me a strong constitution and
31:30 determination, I think that is the only way to explain it.
31:35 - somehow He poured into you survival skills. - right.
31:39 Now I will have to admit that there were times that I had
31:45 pity parties and depression, having mixed feelings about
31:49 myself and my future, wondering how I was going to get
31:54 past my past and knowing my future looked bleak.
32:01 With that, how did you get to a point where things
32:08 started turning around for you?
32:10 When I was about 16 and I had gone through all these
32:13 foster homes, they had ran out of places to put me so
32:17 they transferred me from county care to state care.
32:21 - how come that does not sound good to me?
32:23 It's not because when you going to state care they have
32:26 to process you and you go to detention centers,
32:30 what kids know today as juvenile hall.
32:34 He became a juvenile case? No! I fell through the cracks.
32:37 I was basically a good kid but they didn't have
32:40 anywhere else to put me, they didn't have anywhere
32:42 to put good kids.
32:44 So they processed me by putting me through juvey and
32:50 then some of these other institutions.
32:52 Then what did Ingo do? - the women at the CP school?
32:57 Yes. - to me as far as human people go, humans rather,
33:02 she is definitely a hero to me.
33:04 - she was like an angel? - yes.
33:06 So when I was at one of these places, I'm going to get
33:11 teared up here, anyway I was at one of these places and
33:15 she found out about it and was so alarmed that I was in
33:18 this institution that she contacted one of the people
33:22 she knew was a lawyer, or a counselor and he started
33:25 trying to pull some strings to get me out of there and
33:29 get me into a halfway house.
33:31 This is a teacher? She was an occupational therapist.
33:36 So there were people along the way.
33:39 - when you see her tell her that we all love her.
33:43 I sure will. - you know it's interesting as you talk
33:46 that a lot of people in a number of ways fall through
33:49 the cracks and what you are saying is they didn't even
33:52 know where to put you because you had experiences that
33:54 you probably should have never had in your life.
33:57 On top of that dealing with cerebral palsy, dealing with
34:01 the fact that your mom was not around.
34:04 The broken home, but drinking, the drugs, and on top of
34:08 that my stepfather was very, not only did he neglect us
34:12 as a family, he was also very abusive.
34:14 Physically and emotionally, so I was a mess when God
34:19 finally got my attention.
34:21 How did He did your attention? Because that is my
34:23 favorite part of any story.
34:24 There is a book called 'the Hound of Heaven',
34:27 He's on us like hound because He wants so desperately
34:30 for us to turn around and see His face because I will
34:34 never let you go, and never let up.
34:36 I so want to teach you that I'm here and have you turned
34:39 to Me and so how did that happen in your life?
34:41 Well I guess I grew up with the mentality that if we
34:45 want anything in life we will have to get it ourselves.
34:48 That nobody, the world doesn't owe us anything.
34:52 - nobody is going to do for you. - right.
34:54 If you want something you're going to have to do it
34:56 yourself and so it was a pull yourself up by your own
34:58 bootstraps kind of mentality.
35:00 When I got to be about 16 or 17 and I had gone through
35:04 all these foster homes and gone through the institutions
35:08 and state care and got into a halfway house and got a
35:12 full-time job, by this time they tried to reunite me with
35:16 my mother too and that didn't work out.
35:19 We had so many issues, neither one of us had, had any
35:22 counseling of any kind and so we did not know how to
35:26 relate to each other.
35:27 We were so much alike but we had so much pain with some
35:29 of the issues that we didn't know how to deal with it.
35:32 Not only with ourselves, but with each other so it was just
35:37 a compound that never went anywhere.
35:39 And then there was the step father, the second stepfather
35:41 that despised the ground that Jim walked on.
35:44 - he came later, he was very jealous.
35:45 - was a jealous of you, were you a lot of work because
35:49 of the cerebral palsy? - not really.
35:52 So it wasn't that because you have learned to
35:54 take care of yourself totally. - right.
35:55 But he was so attached to my mother that anytime I took
36:02 away, so it was an interference.
36:05 Anyway, when I was 16 or 17 I had gone through all these
36:10 institutions and halfway house and everything and an
36:15 attempt to reunite with my mother I was working in the
36:20 Pennsylvania by then, at a processing plant.
36:23 Here I am a vegetarian working in a meat plant,
36:26 a meat processing plant.
36:27 - how did you do that? It made you more vegetarian!
36:30 Yeah, yeah definitely, I could tell you stories because
36:32 there are folks probably say that will never give up
36:35 meat but if I could tell you stories,
36:36 you would change your mind.
36:38 I heard some of the stories they're disgusting so go
36:41 on with the story.
36:42 I was working at a processing plant and there was a girl
36:45 there about my age, 16 or 17 years old, named Debbie
36:48 she was a member of the Mennonite Church.
36:55 She started sharing Jesus with me.
36:57 What she was saying just started sinking in.
37:03 Jim I have to ask you this because in my own life, when
37:07 I started to realize, as a neglected child, that there
37:11 there was a God and He loves me, it was so cool.
37:15 When you started to realize that there is a God and you
37:18 can turn it over and you don't have to carry it all
37:22 yourself, how did that feel?
37:24 It was awesome because I had a lot of issues and a lot
37:29 of weight on my shoulders.
37:30 I was at the point, I came home from work one day.
37:34 I worked from 6 p. m.. to 2 a. m. shift, can you imagine
37:39 that? Then I came home one morning after working and
37:43 I was sitting there on my bed in the dark and looking
37:46 out the window thinking I didn't really want to kill
37:50 myself but I was at the point where I didn't want to go
37:53 on living the way I was.
37:55 I realized I had tried everything as far as trying to
38:01 take care of my self and get past my problems and get over
38:05 my hurts and all this, I was like I can't do anything more.
38:09 I've gone as far as I can go and it's not good enough.
38:12 I heard this still small voice, Jesus loves you.
38:16 I argued with it a little bit, no, nobody loves me.
38:20 Yes, Jesus loves you and finally I said okay.
38:24 I knelt down by my bed and I didn't really know how to
38:28 pray but I prayed the simplest way I knew how.
38:30 I said Jesus if you love me, I'll give you all that I am
38:34 and all that I have, it's Yours.
38:36 - come into my life, and really it's fun to think
38:39 about that is that God doesn't care we don't know how to pray,
38:42 He says just talk to Me.
38:43 If you want to kneel down, kneel down because it's a cool
38:46 thing to do, but if you want to stand up, if you want to
38:48 do back flips was talking to Me, just talk away.
38:51 I asked you to, you wrote a song, 'A Still Small Voice',
38:55 I asked you if you would sing that and I would like you
38:59 to sing that and tell us about the song, about why
39:05 you wrote it, and what it means to you?
39:07 It is amazing, the first time I heard it I just hummed
39:11 the whole time, I couldn't stop repeating it because it
39:15 was so incredible, so we are going to go ahead and
39:17 have you do that.
39:19 Ben is going to go ahead and bring your guitar over.
39:24 Start telling us a little bit about the song
39:27 while he does that.
39:29 Okay the song is called, 'A Still Small Voice'
39:31 and it is based on what I told you of my testimony.
39:37 But it is primarily based on the story that took place
39:42 before the song was written.
39:44 I was at a one-day workshop, and I couldn't even tell
39:48 you what the workshop was all about.
39:49 In the workshop the host gave everyone pieces of paper
39:55 and gave us pencils and said what I want you to do is
39:59 draw a line down the middle and I want you to put all
40:04 your good points on the left and all your and all your
40:09 bad points on the right and I want
40:12 you to be painfully honest.
40:13 No one is going to see this paper, not even me.
40:16 I want you to write all of this down, I think the reason
40:19 he did that was so he could tell how well we knew
40:23 ourselves and so that is what I did.
40:25 Needless to say one side was nearly full and hardly
40:30 anything on the other side.
40:32 That is what I thought when you said that, oh man I would
40:34 have a blank one side, especially during the first part
40:37 of recovery. - right and I thought, sometimes I thought
40:40 back and thought it would be fun if I still had that
40:42 piece of paper, but I don't think I have it anymore.
40:45 Everybody at home probably made that paper for themselves
40:49 and put the line down and realized that on their one
40:52 side, the negative stuff fill that up.
40:54 So I totally understood what you said.
40:56 What is really neat is when you thinking about the fact that
41:01 I don't have that list anymore is that I do not need to have
41:03 the things on the list either because
41:05 I can give them all to God.
41:07 So go ahead and sing the song for us.
41:08 Thank you.
41:18 Sometimes I get discouraged,
41:22 feel down and sort of blue.
41:25 The still small voice behind me,
41:29 says Jesus died for you.
41:32 Sometimes I start complaining,
41:36 when things don't go my way.
41:39 A still small voice behind me,
41:43 says I'll walk with you today.
41:49 Sometimes I lacked self-confidence,
41:53 have poor self-esteem.
41:56 A still small voice behind me,
41:59 says my strength can intervene.
42:03 Sometimes I tend to put things off,
42:07 don't know what to do.
42:10 A still small voice behind me,
42:14 says I will see you through.
42:19 Sometimes I'm independent, a proud and selfish man.
42:26 A still small voice behind me,
42:30 says behold my feet and hands.
42:34 Sometimes I asked why he cares for me,
42:37 and how I need to know.
42:40 A still small voice behind me,
42:45 says because I love you so.
42:55 Amen, Amen the fact that God took every single negative
43:00 that you wrote down He said let me just tell you the
43:04 truth about that negative.
43:06 I love you and I died for you and I will walk you through
43:09 that because that is amazing.
43:11 So when you turned it over to God what were the changes
43:16 in your life, what was the changes in yourself personally?
43:22 I had to learn social skills, feeling comfortable being
43:26 around other people. - wasn't that the hardest thing?
43:30 Yeah. - I think normal folks that know how to do that have
43:33 no idea how it is. It is so tough.
43:36 To even say how do you walk under a conversation and just
43:39 join in, I had no idea.
43:41 Learning what is appropriate to say or do, and I know
43:47 several years ago I somehow got involved in door-to-door
43:53 selling and that was such a turning point for me.
43:56 When I was very small, like two, three years old, I was so
44:01 afraid of people, so backwards socially that I would burst
44:05 into tears if I was approached to quickly by a stranger.
44:09 So God just said let me let you practice this so you are
44:13 okay. - I learned that it is not all about me,
44:17 but about what Jesus can do through me.
44:20 What's amazing to me too is the more I learn somebody's
44:24 testimony shared with me, who they were as a kid and how
44:28 God has led them, I feel such a love for them.
44:31 Even as you are talking and share that I feel such a
44:34 love for you and the things that you have overcome in
44:37 your life and how you let God lead.
44:39 As we open up and share with people, we get
44:43 closer together not further apart.
44:45 I think the devil convinces us, don't say that because
44:48 people will think you are strange, it is not true.
44:54 We end up gaining a love based compassion for what
44:59 people have gone through, how cool is that?
45:02 I'm going to jump way up because you guys got married and
45:04 that's probably a great story for another show.
45:07 I want to meet your son, you have a son now that I've met.
45:10 He told me some stories of how he found God.
45:13 You know where to go with this.
45:17 He was 13, I think it was really a neat time that he
45:26 heard God's voice, he heard the voice of the Holy Spirit.
45:29 That was in 1999.
45:32 - hey let's let Jonathan tell the story.
45:34 Jonathan. - well at this time I was doing door-to-door
45:40 sales or mega-booking.
45:42 There is this program where they didn't allow you to have
45:49 any CD players or any type of music.
45:52 My daughter would die, if you took her music
45:56 away she would die.
45:57 We were highly isolated, it was just crazy.
46:03 So during this time I was like really upset and I didn't
46:09 want to do anything but I had to because at that program
46:14 my parents were there and it would be really embarrassing.
46:19 - you were selling Christian books door-to-door.
46:24 This one day I went out and I was going down this
46:30 one street and I saw this house and I was thinking
46:35 I don't want to do that house because it had
46:36 a beware of dog sign.
46:38 It had a big fence around it and I was thinking I'm not
46:41 going to do that house.
46:43 - I want to live past today.
46:44 Yeah, really so I went up to one side of the street and
46:49 kept thinking no I'm not going to do that house.
46:53 There was this voice in my head that kept saying you need
46:55 to do that house.
46:57 So I got to the house and I was no I'm not going to do
47:02 that house, so I passed the house and got it a few houses
47:06 down and couldn't believe I was going to do this.
47:10 I turned around and went back to the house.
47:13 - because God never lets up, if He impresses you to do
47:16 something He will not let up.
47:18 That is right! So I got back to the house and went
47:22 through the gate and I was like, I'm crazy for doing this.
47:28 So I got to the door and I knocked on it and there was no
47:32 answer, then this huge dog comes running around the house.
47:37 He was probably German Shepherd up past my waist.
47:43 I was freaking out -and knocking on the door I'm sure?
47:51 I was shaking inside, I was going bonkers, but outside it
47:59 was like I was calm still.
48:01 This dog is on the porch and was barking and growling the
48:07 entire time, but there was like a wall or a line
48:11 he couldn't go past.
48:12 So I was standing there, it seemed like forever, it was
48:18 like 10 minutes or something and I was knocking and
48:23 knocking and knocking and waiting.
48:25 Something kept telling me you need to wait.
48:28 I was like well I've gotten this far in the dog hasn't
48:32 attacked me so I might as well listened to the voice.
48:36 So finally this little elderly lady comes out
48:42 and she has this look of shock on her face, amazement.
48:45 You're the first person that hasn't called me ahead of time,
48:52 that hasn't been mauled by my dog.
48:55 I was amazed by that, but I didn't show it to her I just
49:03 went ahead with my canvas being the salesman I am.
49:09 I canvassed her on the Great Controversy and Peace Above
49:18 the Storm and she ended up getting those books.
49:22 That was a real blessing for me.
49:24 - you probably got them because she knew that God's hand
49:27 was on you, you were alive still at her door.
49:32 So is that when God became real to you?
49:33 Yes, I mean I was like wow how can He keep dogs from me?
49:42 All this stuff was happening, how else would I hear
49:50 a voice in my head about going to this house?
49:53 That was kind of a spiritual high,
50:00 but I still wasn't won over yet.
50:07 I remember you tell me you really got a lot of good stuff
50:11 from Pastor Dan at Black Hills when you moved there with
50:15 your folks. - yeah, in between that time
50:20 I was just crazy and wouldn't listen.
50:25 You're just arguing with your folks. - yet I would listen
50:28 to them but we moved to Black Hills and it was like
50:32 Green acres out in the middle of nowhere.
50:36 At first I didn't like it but it started growing on me.
50:42 Then our neighbor Pastor Dan and Patsy and his two sons.
50:50 I became friends with their children so during Friday
50:56 afternoon's he would start having youth meetings and we
51:02 will go over there and sing out of the hymnals.
51:04 Then we would have Bible studies with a group and it
51:10 started getting me closer, but I didn't notice it yet.
51:16 So basically I started doing personal Bible studies
51:22 with them and he invited me to do that and
51:24 I started doing that.
51:26 I eventually gave my heart to God and was baptized.
51:33 I think like Jim when you were talking about your whole
51:38 testimony too is that God worked in your life, with
51:42 you guys being married and that is an incredible story.
51:47 What we don't have time and then God was working on your
51:51 son and that still small voice is speaking to every single
51:56 one of us, every single one of you.
51:58 And now is leading you Jonathan to closer walk with God.
52:02 I know there is questions today and I would like to first
52:06 start with Sam, Sam do you have a question?
52:08 Jim you mentioned the Mennonite young lady who was the one
52:15 who introduced you to Jesus. Briefly if you could tell us
52:20 how did you become a Seventh-day Adventist Christian?
52:26 Well after I surrendered my life to the Lord while I was
52:30 living in Pennsylvania and working at this processing
52:34 plant, I moved back to Richmond Virginia where I was
52:38 originally from and got a job in a nursing home.
52:41 The nursing home was actually walking distance from a
52:46 local Seventh-day Adventist church and I worked in the
52:50 kitchen washing pots and pans.
52:53 Would you wash my pots and pans?
52:55 - after the show. So my supervisor at the nursing home
53:00 was a Seventh-day Adventist and she started sharing
53:05 with me about the Sabbath and some other things in the
53:09 Bible and she'd learned that I was a new Christian and
53:13 didn't have a church home.
53:14 She invited me to church and as soon as I got my first
53:19 Sabbath off where I work, because people have to eat,
53:24 on weekends too so I started going to church and I knew
53:29 from my first Sabbath at church that this is where
53:31 God wanted me to be.
53:33 So you were studying all those issues?
53:35 Right I started going and kept going to church and one
53:39 Sabbath I just told the pastor well, when are you
53:42 going to baptize me?
53:44 What I love and we have less than a minute.
53:48 But what I love about your whole story and listening to
53:52 how God has led, it is that all of heaven really took you
53:55 on an adopted you.
53:57 It says we are adopted into the family of God and joint
54:01 heirs with Christ and for some of us that means everything
54:05 because we don't have a home, we don't have family, we have
54:08 been put from place to place and you will no longer be put to
54:11 another place, you are for ever in this family.
54:15 I think how cool is that.
54:17 Do you have anything else to say? Just quickly.
54:21 My only regret is that I didn't get to know the Lord
54:26 sooner, but I don't dwell on that, I dwell on the fact
54:32 I have the Lord now and He is awesome and that
54:33 He is bigger than any problem I have.
54:36 I can let go of my past and live in the present
54:39 but look forward to the future.
54:41 Amen, I love that and like you said the regrets about not
54:46 having God sooner, somebody used to tell me that.
54:48 They said if one day Cheri you are going to look at your
54:53 past and not regret any of it, not want to change any of
54:57 it, I thought are they crazy, are they absolutely crazy?
55:01 Did you hear about my past?
55:03 Now today, I wouldn't change anything because it really
55:06 makes me who I am, I can sit in front of people that have
55:10 hurts and dysfunctions and I know what they have been
55:13 through, I know what they feel, I know their abandonment
55:16 issues and I know there is a God in heaven that says
55:19 I am bigger than that.
55:20 I will walk you every step of the way and I promise
55:23 you will be healed and I love that so I wouldn't change
55:26 a thing, we will be right back stay with us.
55:34 Cheri Peters uses the book, 'Coming Of The Comforter'
55:37 as a guide for the second season of Celebrating Life In
55:40 Recovery, written by Lee Roy E. Froom is a 320 page book
55:44 that offers every sinner the knowledge that the
55:47 Holy Spirit is available to all.
55:49 3ABN now offers this book to you for a suggested donation
55:52 of only $13 postpaid within the US.
55:55 Call 3ABN at 618-627-4651 or go online to 3ABN.org.
56:16 I love the way God leads us, I love the way He speaks to
56:19 us, I love the Holy Spirit and that still small voice
56:23 that Jim sang about when he reassures us of our recovery
56:27 and reassures us of His love for us.
56:30 His presence in our life and I'm going to read my favorite
56:33 text Jeremiah 29:11 and has been from the very minute
56:36 I got into recovery.
56:38 When someone first read this to me I wept like a baby
56:41 because it says, "for I know the thoughts and plans that I
56:44 "have for you" and I'm thinking nobody has plans for me.
56:48 Nobody has thoughts of me, my mother didn't even want me.
56:51 She tried to self abort six different times.
56:53 It says right here that God, God has plans for me.
56:57 He has thoughts of me and it goes on to say that "his
57:01 "plans for me are for peace and not for evil to give me
57:06 "hope and a future. " And verse 12 says, "then you will
57:09 "call upon me and you will come and pray to me and
57:13 I will hear you. "
57:14 I just love that and you know everybody here in this room,
57:17 everybody here watching I'm sure has felt that sense
57:20 when they have called on God and He has heard them
57:23 and spoke to them.
57:24 And 13 is one of my favorites, and you have to hear this
57:28 part because it says, "then you will seek me, inquire of
57:33 "me as a vital necessity in your life and find me when you
57:37 "search for me with all your heart. "
57:39 "And I will be found by you. "
57:42 I love the fact that God says, search for Me, expect Me
57:46 to speak to you, expect for Me to lead you in because
57:50 I have plans for you, I have a future for you,
57:53 I have prayers for you and one more thing I want to read
57:56 and it says the measure of the Holy Spirit that we receive
57:59 will be proportionate to the measure that we desire or in
58:02 the faith that we exercise for it.
58:04 Ellen White said that, if I'm not seeking
58:08 God for that kind of recovery, if I am not seeking God for
58:11 that kind of healing. I won't find it.
58:13 If I seek He will give me as much as I need in order to
58:16 get into recovery, so I'm going to beg you to seek after
58:20 God and until then remember God is crazy about you.
58:23 And me too, see you next time.