Participants: Wayne and Sherri Labins, Cheri Peters
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000009
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00:10 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery,
00:11 I'm Cheri your host and this is going to be one of the 00:14 best episodes ever and one of the hardest, you decide. 00:17 Come join us in the café. 00:45 I love who God is, I love the fact that He forgives us. 00:48 I love the fact that He knows every single thing about me. 00:50 It doesn't bug Him. 00:52 You know God's greatest joy, and I read this in Steps To 00:57 Christ going through the series Celebrating Life In Recovery. 01:00 In Steps To Christ in the chapter the Work And the Life, 01:03 it says that Christ greatest joy was to work with us. 01:07 To work with us, and it doesn't matter how wretched 01:10 we are, it doesn't matter all our character defects, 01:12 it doesn't matter about that kind of stuff. 01:14 His joy is to get us to see ourselves as we really are, 01:17 to hand it to Him and to allow Him to bring us back to 01:22 the place where we were created to be. 01:24 Who He knows we are and I'm thinking Amen! I love that. 01:28 I want to introduce the people on the set because I have 01:31 some people here that I just love. 01:32 I have Teresa, you are going to be with us and this is 01:36 the first time your with us, I want to say thank you. 01:38 Curly's your back again. 01:39 And I love you - I love you. -I love you! 01:41 And Jeanette, Larry, Wayne and Sherri you are back again. 01:46 But you were here before doing the radio show and not 01:50 television so now we get to hear you on television, 01:52 which is fun. 01:53 I've got to tell you when I first met Wayne it was so 01:56 funny, I'm at SoCal Camp meeting and they asked me 01:59 to be a speaker and it was like my first time of going 02:02 out into the ministry and I was so nervous. 02:05 Whenever I'm nervous and I think you know what I better go 02:09 shopping, get something cute to wear or whatever. 02:12 So I went out and got this outfit, and I'm prayed up, 02:16 I'm reading the Bible, and I'm asking God to bless us and I get 02:21 there and they're some heavy-duty speakers there. 02:24 Rojas was there, the youth speaker from the conference. 02:28 He is amazing, and we had a guy from Breath of Life was 02:33 there and they were amazing, and then me and I'm thinking 02:35 no way, and I'm so nervous. 02:37 So I get up and I remember getting up and just feeling so 02:40 nervous and so inadequate, and I'm such a mess. 02:43 Just a heroin addict in recovery who wants to hear that? 02:45 But I absolutely love God, so I get up and starting my 02:51 testimony and all of a sudden I feel the Holy Spirit, 02:53 all the nervousness goes away and I just feel like 02:56 I am blessed and so glad to be there. 02:58 And after I get done, I come down and Wayne comes up. 03:03 Do you remember what you said to me? 03:04 Wayne comes up and says to me, Cheri, come here. 03:08 I said what? And he said do you realize that your outfit 03:12 is totally see through it? Oh shut up! Shut up! 03:16 Don't even tell me that. I said totally see-through? 03:19 So the whole time I'm up there, I'm walking around, 03:22 finally getting over the nervousness, talking about who 03:26 God is and my outfit is see-through. 03:28 I'm thinking I'm dead, I'm so devastated, I'm thinking 03:32 I'm never going to show my face again. 03:33 I go to room and said you know God, first of all I have 03:36 to find somebody, we're at Camp meeting, I have to find 03:40 somebody with an extra slip. 03:41 Jeanette did you bring an extra slip? 03:44 She says I'm at Camp meeting, I didn't even bring a slip. 03:48 Why would I bring an extra one if I did bring one, 03:50 if I have one I'm wearing it. 03:52 You know, so I had to find somebody with a slip. 03:54 You don't want to go up again with the see-through outfit. 03:57 So the women's Ministry leader, who really does not want 04:00 me up there again with this outfit, 04:02 is trying to find a slip. 04:03 I'm in the room praying, God, You could have told me. 04:09 You could have told me, You are God and know everything 04:12 when I bought it You knew that it was see-through. 04:14 You could have gotten me a slip, You could have had one 04:18 just laying on my bed when I walked in the room. 04:20 Somebody forgot it in a drawer or something. 04:22 You know, and God said something through the Holy Spirit. 04:25 He said, Cheri aren't you glad that the robe of 04:28 righteousness isn't see-through? 04:31 And I am like, oh Amen! Amen! God covers us and He 04:35 never sees our sin again. He sees Christ. 04:38 He sees Christ's robe, He doesn't see our junk. 04:41 He doesn't see the stuff we struggle with. 04:42 He doesn't even see our relapses, how fun is that? 04:46 He doesn't see how twisted our mind is, none of that kind 04:49 of stuff, He sees Christ. 04:51 And I am thinking, Amen! 04:52 I'm going to tell you a story before I introduce you to 04:54 the main guest, but until then I want to say we have 04:59 incredible folks here on the set and you've met them. 05:02 But I want to tell you a story, I got this call, and I 05:05 can't even tell you what state because she really wants 05:07 me to be careful about people knowing this about her. 05:12 So I got this call from this girl's mother, 05:14 and I'm going to say from New York. 05:18 I'll just pick a state. From New York. 05:20 Her mom calls me and says, my daughter is a mess. 05:24 Absolutely a mess and I am afraid she will die, she will 05:28 not survive this, she is depressed, she suicidal, she is 05:32 angry, and she is not going to church anymore. 05:34 She is in my face and I can't even hold her anymore. 05:37 I can't even comfort her, she is so angry at me. 05:40 I want you to work with her. 05:43 I'm thinking, Oh! I don't know about anybody else even 05:47 in ministry, or in your friend- ships when you feel in adequate 05:50 when somebody ask you to do something like that for them, 05:52 I just felt overwhelmed. 05:54 I thought what if God is working with her already, 05:59 and for whatever then he will give us something to say, 06:01 but I can't do it if she is there and I am here. 06:04 So somehow we have to get where we are together. 06:07 In the same state. So I said, send her to me. 06:10 She won't do that, she won't even come, 06:13 she hates everybody and especially people in the church. 06:16 So I wrote the book Miracle from the Street and I said, 06:18 I'm going to sign the book and put my phone number in it, 06:21 and I want you to give it to her. 06:22 If she reads it then I want her to call me. 06:25 So let's just do that. Well she won't read it. 06:28 Just give it to her and pray like crazy that she 06:33 opens this book, because I really believe the book is 06:35 about God, it's a vindication of God's character. 06:37 It tells that God is bigger than anything we deal with. 06:40 So I wanted her to have the book and then call me. 06:43 So she gives it to her daughter, and I go on a trip. 06:46 I know that I take all these side things, but I got to 06:49 tell you I went on the strip and working with a guy 06:51 named Ron Halverson. 06:53 I don't know if anybody knows him, but he is awesome. 06:56 Like this gangster in recovery and now a Pastor. 06:59 He is fun, he's loud and some thing like me, how fun are you? 07:03 So anyhow we are working together, doing a Camp meeting 07:07 and I'm thinking Ron Halverson, and I am doing a Camp meeting. 07:10 You know what let's do it a little different. 07:12 And I had just ministered at a strip club with a stripper. 07:16 I had to pay a cover charge to come in and minister 07:18 with her, so I said what if we have a cover charge 07:21 at Camp meeting? And somebody says can you do a cover 07:24 charge at Camp meeting? I said you know I can do 07:26 whatever I want, I'm the speaker. 07:28 And so I said let's do a cover charge, and the cover 07:31 charge is you cannot come to Camp meeting unless 07:35 you bring somebody that is an absolute mess. 07:38 An alcoholic, a drug addict, a sex offender, somebody 07:43 that is porn addiction, somebody that is beating his wife. 07:45 You have to bring somebody, and people are like, 07:48 where do I find them? 07:50 While in your own family most of the time. 07:53 If you're not finding them there, and you can find them 07:56 in your church, go down to the Main Street. 08:00 Because in this town we were doing this Camp meeting in, 08:03 Main Street it heroin was drug of choice but a lot of addiction 08:07 People started getting into this, and started bringing in 08:11 addicts, and it was hilarious. 08:13 There was one girl that came in drunk every single time. 08:15 Her name was Beth, I love her and Beth if you are watching 08:18 you know that I love you. 08:19 But anyhow Beth comes in and Beth is drunk every time. 08:23 Half the time asleep and snoring like crazy in the front 08:26 row, the only time she came to was to say you know what 08:30 Cheri Amen! And I'm thinking 08:32 you're a little bit late on the Amen! 08:33 But anyhow, even the last day, the last day, 08:37 we are getting finished and people are really, 08:40 I'm watching addicts decide to step into recovery for the 08:44 first time in their life. 08:45 So absolutely amazing, but Beth comes, she had missed 08:49 one meeting, and she knows I'm flying out and she wants 08:51 to do a one on one. 08:52 She comes late at night and I'm with all the organizers 08:55 at Camp meeting, Beth is so wasted that she cannot walk. 08:58 Cannot walk, she has her keys in her hand. 09:02 I'd like to Um, I'd like to give Cheri a ride home. 09:06 cause I want to talk with her. 09:08 People are like you are not taking Cheri out of here 09:12 in your condition, and they are so serious. 09:15 It was like people around me protecting me. 09:17 You are not going with her. 09:18 I took the keys and I said, Beth how bout I drive? 09:20 Alright! We get into the car and go back to the Bed and 09:25 Breakfast I'm staying at. 09:26 It is late at night by this time, 1:30 in the morning. 09:29 I said, maybe I can walk her sober, we'll walk around. 09:33 She was so drunk that was not happening. 09:35 So we walked by the lake and around the lake, we walk out on 09:38 the pier, I finally think maybe I could just poof, 09:42 and I pushed her in the water. 09:43 It was freezing, freezing cold and she sobered up faster 09:48 than anybody I've ever seen. 09:51 And we got to do ministry and it was so fun, so fun. 09:54 Beth now is in recovery, and this has been a few 09:57 years, so it is amazing, amazing. 09:59 But anyhow I come home from that Camp meeting and I'm 10:02 checking my messages on the phone. 10:04 And guess who called me? Katie, I'm thinking shut up 10:08 how cool is that? She says, this is Katie and my mom 10:12 gave me your book and told me that you want me to call 10:15 you, and I don't care if you call me back, but whatever. 10:19 Here is my phone number and hangs up. 10:21 I'm like Wahoo, she called me, how fun. 10:24 I'm so thrilled, so I call her back. 10:27 I tell her I'm doing a weekend with Hyveth Williams, 10:32 I don't know if you know her but she is so awesome. 10:34 So high, Hyveth!. If you are out there, I want to speak 10:38 at your church, no sorry we are doing a show, right? 10:40 So anyway, I'm working with Hyveth Williams, and I tell 10:44 Katie, fly into Idaho, because that is where the ranch is 10:48 that I work at, so fly into Idaho and I will have some 10:52 body pick you up at the airport, and they will pick me 10:53 up in Baker, because I'm in Baker Oregon at the time that 10:57 she is going to fly in because I am a Pathfinder leader. 10:59 I don't know of anybody knows what a Pathfinder is, 11:02 but they have me as a leader. 11:04 So I'm doing this pathfinder event, somebody's going 11:06 to pick you up at the airport in Boise, 11:08 they will fly you in their private plane to Baker. 11:11 They are going to pick me up in Baker and then fly to 11:14 Medford Oregon and we are going to do a weekend. 11:17 You don't have to go to the meetings or anything, it is 11:20 just a way for you and I to hang out, but I will meet 11:23 you when you fly in. So she says okay. 11:26 Chris Chapman is somebody I work with that just buried 11:29 her son with a meth addiction, she is going to meet with 11:33 Katie in Boise, and I know the story is complicated, 11:36 but stay with me, because it is so fun. 11:38 So anyhow, Chris going to meet her at the airport and 11:41 get in the plane with a friend that works for the 11:44 Ministry that has a plane and they are going to fly us 11:46 to Baker and then flies us to Medford and a storm comes in. 11:50 A horrible storm, and the guy that flies the small plane 11:54 can't fly it because he doesn't have the right pilot's 11:57 license to fly in a storm. 11:59 So now instead of flying to Baker and to Medford, 12:02 we have to drive, so it is hours. Right, hours! 12:06 We are barely going to make it there for me to speak 12:09 at this weekend thing. 12:10 But Chris picks Katie up from the airport, Chris just 12:13 lost her son and tells Katie the whole story. 12:15 A By the time they get to meet me in Baker they are best 12:18 friends, Chris and her have cried together, they have 12:21 prayed together, they have loved on each other. 12:23 But you know what Katie says, my mom is crazy, 12:27 I have no problems, I don't know what she's talking about. 12:30 So I'm thinking, how funny is that because her mom is 12:33 ready to kill herself because she is so depressed over 12:36 her daughter, and the daughter is saying mom is crazy. 12:39 She is the cutest Italian kid, this girl was just as 12:43 beautiful, and kind of a smart aleck you can tell. 12:46 But I said are you sure there's nothing wrong? 12:48 You said nothing other than my folks. 12:50 So we started driving from Baker to Medford, right? 12:53 It is hours, this is going to be a trip that is hours. 12:56 Up through the mountains and all that stuff. 12:58 It was late at night by this time and I realize 13:00 I'm speaking at 7:30 in the morning, first thing in the 13:02 morning, never do that to an addict in recovery. 13:04 We don't like getting up early. 13:06 But anyhow, so first thing in the morning I'm the speaker. 13:09 So I realize I have to get some sleep, I had to sleep. 13:13 You know what? This is crazy, I can't talk to you guys 13:17 anymore and they were so funny, joking and having fun. 13:19 I got in the back seat and lay down, no matter what 13:23 you say I have to get some sleep. 13:24 They would say a joke or something and I would be up, 13:28 and do you think I just got up and said, oh that was 13:31 funny and laid back down? 13:32 I got up and talked and talked and talked, oh! 13:35 I have to go to sleep and I would lay back down. 13:38 So finally I said, no matter what you say, I am not 13:40 getting up, and you know Curly, you are funny, 13:43 you are so funny, and I know you would try to get me 13:46 with your jokes, and that is what they tried to do. 13:48 Kept trying, kept trying and kept trying. 13:50 So finally I thought, you know what I can even listen 13:53 to them, and I started to drift off to sleep and 13:56 I hear Chris say, did you see that? 14:00 That was the cutest thing I ever seen, how cool is that 14:04 and Katie said the same thing, that was so cool. 14:06 Chris, turn around, go back, oh man, did you see him. 14:12 Oh! He is so cute. 14:13 And I'm thinking I'm not getting up. 14:15 I'm not keeping up, you cannot get me up. 14:18 But then, the car started to turn around, 14:22 and I'm thinking you guys this is not funny, 14:23 we are going to barely make it. 14:24 And it is on such a small country road, 14:27 through the mountains that they literally had 14:28 to do one of these kind of turns, right? 14:30 So they turn around and I get up and I said, you guys 14:33 this is not funny, we can't turn around. 14:34 And as I said that, I saw another car turnaround to go 14:38 back to the same spot. 14:40 So everybody turned around, and then the lights from 14:42 both cars went and did a spotlight on the cutest raccoon 14:46 you have ever seen in your life. 14:48 Just looking up at us, and he was adorable. 14:50 Adorable, kind of like a baby raccoon. 14:53 I thought how cute is that. Man, how cute is that? 14:58 So we are all saying the same thing, how cute is that? 15:01 So we end up looking at this raccoon and I realize as 15:05 I am looking at him that the whole bottom part of 15:08 his body is smashed, smashed. 15:10 He is trying to pull himself off the road. 15:14 No way, no way and so I end up, we get out of the car, 15:18 and this guy that pulls around with us in a different 15:21 car, he put his jacket on him and got the raccoon off 15:23 the side of the road, and we are looking at the raccoon 15:26 trying to figure out what to do. 15:28 Chris has just buried her son, you have to remember this. 15:30 But she says you know what? We have to give him to the 15:32 hospital, I said Chris, it's a raccoon. 15:36 And I know that is sad and all, but things get hit, 15:41 we are in the middle of nowhere and I don't know where 15:43 a vet is, and she is like I cannot leave this raccoon 15:46 here to die, we have to take it to the hospital. 15:49 So I said, you know okay. 15:53 So we now get back in the car and I have a raccoon on 15:56 my chest, and this raccoon is bleeding. 16:00 I have to tell you, bleeding and he is in pain. 16:03 He is afraid, I am not sure why he didn't scratch me up. 16:07 But I held this raccoon, I thought if I was dying what 16:11 would I want someone to do for me? 16:12 I thought you know, pray for me. Sing, just something. 16:16 It doesn't even matter what it is. 16:18 But as I am going, do that for me and so I started doing 16:22 that for the raccoon, I prayed, God I know this animal 16:26 is afraid, and I know that he is afraid and he's dying and I 16:31 can hear it in his breathing. I just ask You to bring 16:34 peace to him, and I started to pray. 16:36 I started singing simple things, because I can't sing. 16:38 Just sing humble myself in the sight of the Lord, 16:43 and I just started singing and as I'm singing 16:45 I'm hearing Chris and Katie talking in the front seat. 16:47 They are saying you know what, when he gets well, 16:51 Chris says, I'm going to adopt him, I'm taking him home. 16:54 This is going to be my pet. 16:55 And Katie is like, what are we going to call him. 16:57 I'm listening to them, and they said, let's call him 17:02 boo-boo, because he made, he got in front of a car and got 17:06 run over, boo-boo. I thought you guys are so creative. 17:08 You know so, anyhow they are talking in the front and 17:12 I'm telling them, you know what? He's not going to make it. 17:16 This raccoon is not going to make it, and they're saying 17:19 no he'll make it. 17:20 I said we will not be able to find a vet. 17:22 Well let's go to the emergency room now, 17:24 let's just go to a hospital, and I could see me now 17:27 walking in a hospital with this raccoon and saying, 17:29 excuse is there a Doctor in the house? 17:32 So I am thinking, you know okay. 17:35 So we end up driving further and further, we end up 17:39 having this real struggle with this raccoon. 17:42 But then the raccoon dies, and I held him for a long time, 17:46 because I don't know when life actually leaves something. 17:49 So I held him for a long time. 17:51 And I said, you know what? You guys, the raccoon is dead. 17:54 They cried, I mean they cried. 17:57 We got out of the car and found a place to bury this 17:59 raccoon and we are in the middle of nowhere. 18:01 We dug this whole, and Chris is going to do the eulogy. 18:05 I don't even know what we were thinking, but as we were 18:08 getting ready to put this raccoon in the hole we saw 18:10 a bear and I promise you, I looked up and there was a bear 18:14 probably 15 feet away from us. 18:16 I screamed and threw the raccoon and we ran to the car and 18:19 got in the car and drove away. 18:21 We saw ourselves with this raccoon flying through the air 18:24 after all that and couldn't stop laughing. 18:26 And then we didn't want to laugh because we thought 18:27 how bad, we shouldn't be laughing, that was a dead 18:30 raccoon. So every time we stopped laughing we just 18:34 started laughing again and I'm trying to stop myself. 18:36 I'm thinking is it wrong to laugh, but you know what 18:39 it was just, and all of a sudden I hear Katie and 18:44 she is sobbing, absolutely sobbing. 18:46 Her laughter changed, and now she is sobbing. 18:48 I said Katie, what is the matter? Are you okay? 18:52 I'm thinking the raccoon still, she said no. 18:54 My life is a mess, a mess and I feel like I'm dying 18:59 on the side of the road and nobody is picking me up. 19:01 Nobody is picking me up. 19:03 This show is going to be about God picks us up. 19:06 You have to hear me with that, is what I said is 19:08 that Katie you're in a car, stop you are in a car 19:11 with two women that are fanatical about God. 19:14 I would do anything for you to see the healing power of 19:17 God, the God I know. 19:18 I don't care what you have done, I don't care what 19:20 you have got yourself lost in, that God wants to reach 19:23 in and pull you up. 19:25 And he doesn't want to do that to hold to while you are 19:28 dying, He wants to pour life into you. 19:30 I promise you that God will be faithful. 19:33 So we will be right back, I want to introduce you 19:34 to the guest and I will tell you the rest of the story 19:36 about Katie and that whole thing because it is amazing. 19:39 Stay with us! 19:45 We want to introduce you to a beautiful book 19:47 called 'Steps To Christ'. 19:49 Each program in this series is based on a different 19:51 chapter showing you how to become a Christian and 19:54 gain victory over your addictions. 19:56 'Steps To Christ' is our gift to you free of charge. 20:00 Just call us at: 20:27 Welcome back, you know this is my favorite part of the 20:29 show and again, the show is hard, it is hard for me. 20:32 We haven't even got into the content yet, so you probably 20:35 don't even know what I am talking about. 20:37 I want to tell you that the last time, Wayne and Sherri, 20:40 you are going to tell us your testimony. 20:42 You are going to talk about what God has done in your life. 20:46 And the last time you and I did a radio show together, 20:49 I triggered for three months after that and got into all my 20:54 own stuff and thought I can't do this and all that stuff. 20:57 I remember just praying, and praying and saying, God 21:00 I can't do this and I didn't even want to e-mail, 21:03 I didn't want you to e- mail me and say something. 21:04 I didn't want to e-mail back, and someone else had 21:07 triggered during hearing your testimony and I was dealing 21:11 with them, I was dealing with some kids that had gone 21:13 through some issues and finally God said to me, in prayer. 21:18 This morning, that is how long it has taken. 21:22 But this morning in prayer what He said, Cheri I want you 21:25 to think about the worst thing you ever did, ever did. 21:29 The worst thing that God has come into my life and had to 21:33 work through with me, and He said, do you feel forgiven for 21:38 that? And I did, I thought I know I even teared up 21:42 because some of my stuff is horrible with 10 years on 21:44 the street and strung out on heroin and stuff. 21:46 I think you know I did, I feel forgiven. 21:50 He said, do you feel like the blood of Christ has covered 21:54 that and My mercy and My Grace, and I said yes. 21:57 He said, don't be so arrogant to think that you can't 22:00 forgive Wayne and I thought oh man, I didn't even think 22:04 that was the issue. 22:06 I just want to say, I want to ask you to forgive me for 22:08 having that stuff, that no sin is different from another, 22:12 God looks at all of us as we are dying in our sins before 22:15 He pulls us out. 22:16 I want you to just talk to us about what is your story? 22:19 And before you get into it, will you forgive me? 22:24 Oh, certainly! - okay, good, good. 22:26 Well you talk about my story and testimony, there is no 22:30 reason to share a testimony unless it is going to be 22:32 a blessing to someone else. 22:34 Every person has a testimony that is unique. 22:36 This is a tough one, we shared years ago, we said 22:41 it was a tough one. 22:42 I am guilty being a child molester. - convicted. 22:48 Convicted child molester from 1992. 22:51 But praise God, He has delivered me from that. 22:55 I have absolutely no urges for molesting children anymore, 22:59 and that is only because of God. Only because of God. 23:02 Early on in my recovery there was times when I would feel 23:07 like you what am I going to be struggling this my whole life 23:10 long and the answer is yes, and the answer is no. 23:13 The answer is yes in that you have to monitor yourself, your 23:17 entire life, and there are things you cannot do any more 23:20 Wayne, you can not allow yourself to be around children 23:23 isolated ever, period. Okay - right. 23:27 Just like any addict, it is a day to day program 23:31 in recovery. - that's right!. 23:34 But just because the code of conduct is now set up in my 23:37 life, it doesn't mean that God doesn't bless and bring 23:40 people into our lives who need to hear this story. 23:43 They need to hear that it is possible to be in recovery 23:47 and not have those urges anymore. 23:50 We praise God, it's completely Him. 23:52 Because there is a lot of people struggling with this kind 23:56 of sin, even though their own molest, though own early 24:01 childhood stuff or what ever, but they struggle with this. 24:03 You are telling them, you know what? God is so good that 24:06 even to us, He frees us. 24:09 It's almost like you have to beg the church 24:11 to allow you to heal. 24:14 Sometimes, sometimes that's the case. 24:15 Some people can't handle it, and you know what? 24:17 That is alright. God says, He will not test us beyond 24:21 what we can endure, so even in those tough times, 24:23 I mean I tried to rent rooms in people's homes early on, 24:27 after I was divorced, and things were all set up and ready 24:31 to go, but I had to share with them this testimony. 24:34 I felt I owed them that courtesy. 24:37 Do you have to register too, right? 24:39 I have to register, it is a lifelong thing. Yes. 24:41 I owed them that courtesy and they said you know what? 24:44 We appreciate your honesty but we really can't handle 24:47 that, and I said I understand and that is alright. 24:50 God will provide some other way. And He has. 24:54 God has blessed, as we are willing to let God into our 24:58 hearts and save look, I'm trusting You here, because 25:02 no one else seems to be trusting me. 25:03 I need You to provide Lord, and He does. He really does. 25:08 He provides accountability partners. 25:11 That is really what I would like to emphasize during this 25:14 program is accountability. - Amen! 25:17 But first I want to say, even to the point of when you 25:20 say it is difficult for people to forgive you. 25:22 For one people trigger into their own stuff, like I was 25:26 a molest kid so people trigger into all that stuff. 25:29 Feel like, what if you reoffend, and all that stuff. 25:33 So people have a difficult time, but I remember 25:37 you telling me a story that even in your conference 25:40 where you worship, that they made some rules at Camp 25:44 meeting that were pretty intense, 25:46 can you talk about that? 25:47 Yes, interestingly enough we have been attending Camp 25:50 meeting for seven or eight years straight, 25:53 and been part of the Ministry there. 25:55 I have been an audio engineer at there and just love it. 25:59 It is high point spiritually throughout the year. 26:01 And we are pretty close with the conference leadership 26:04 too, but this last year, because they had some legal 26:07 issues with another situation, they made a new policy 26:11 that said anyone who is registered as a sex offender 26:14 they are not going to be allowed at the Camp meeting. 26:17 - so you can't even go anymore? - no, no I can't. 26:20 And then they realized, we didn't realize it applied to 26:23 you, and I said well I'm not asking you to make any 26:25 exceptions here at all, I just think you know what? 26:28 As a church, there is only one organization on the 26:31 planet that really needs to reach out to 26:34 everybody in their dirt and their junk. 26:36 We have got to be able to be protective of children, 26:40 absolutely, protective of our precious children but also 26:44 redemptive at the same time. 26:45 So there has got to be a way to have policies to make 26:48 sure that the children are protected when they are in 26:51 church activities, there is always two adults present, 26:54 there's always windows in the doors when their Sabbath 26:57 school rooms are in other rooms. 26:59 If we can take those precautions and still say, 27:05 you know what? We are going to use the tools to find 27:08 out who is suffering, or has suffered with these 27:12 addictions, and these problems and use Megan's law. 27:15 Use the tools that are out there to identify sex offenders. 27:18 If they want to participate in a church program, 27:21 praise God, we want them in the church safe, rather 27:24 than out side and offending. 27:27 But when you're saying in the church safe, we want 27:30 to teach people how to put in accountability programs 27:32 so that everybody is safe. 27:34 The kids are safe, the victims aren't triggering, 27:36 and the offenders themselves gets to walk in their 27:39 recovery, knowing they have accountability around them. 27:42 - that is right, that is right. 27:44 It's amazing, can I? Before we go there, because we are 27:47 going to stay on there, but I know that you married 27:50 Wayne after you found out about his sex offending stuff. 27:54 To me I am looking at you as another woman thinking, 27:57 what were you thinking? how did you do that? 28:00 And I want to say that not in an offensive way, Wayne 28:03 because I do love you, and I am sorry about my own 28:07 triggers when that happens, but I know that 28:10 you had to struggle with that? 28:12 Sure, I would have never at all, if anybody would have 28:15 said you are going to marry somebody who is a sex offender 28:18 because in my mind you never hurt a child, and you never 28:21 hurt an animal, those are my two babies. 28:25 So when I met Wayne, I thought wow, because we'd met 28:30 through Adventist singles and he seemed like such a nice 28:34 guy, but within the first week Wayne told me. 28:37 He said well Sherri before you get to know me with your 28:40 heart, I want you to know me with your head. 28:42 So he told me this is what I have in my background. 28:46 I have a Jail Journal that he wrote while he was in jail. 28:50 As he was coming to the Lord and stuff, so he had told me 28:55 but I want you to read this, take us home with you to 28:58 read, because I live in a different town than him. 29:01 So I took it home and was reading it, and about a month 29:05 after dating, well one of the main things I said, was 29:08 I was going to watch him, and the main thing you can do 29:11 is see how people are by their actions. 29:14 People can say whatever they want, they can tell you 29:16 they love you, they can do whatever, or are not going to 29:19 do this again and I'm going to do whatever, but if 29:22 they don't change, or their behavior so I'm going to 29:24 watch him and how he interacts with his children, 29:27 because even though he had those he had his three children, 29:30 so I watched his behavior and it was very good. 29:34 But what was funny is about a month after dating 29:37 I was sitting on my bed and I was just thinking. 29:40 My mom comes in and she goes so Sherri, what's going on? 29:43 She said you look like you are thinking really hard or 29:47 whatever, and I was like well I was just thinking about 29:49 Wayne, she said, he just seems like a really neat guy. 29:52 So I'm like, you know all of us have baggage mom in our life. 29:56 She does yeah, and she goes well it is not like he's a 29:59 child molester or anything. 30:01 And I am like well mom, actually why don't you have a seat 30:06 over here and we talked. 30:08 And she was molested kid. - right. 30:10 And her father had died before she ever got to have the 30:13 talk with him or anything. 30:15 One of the neat things was she was able to talk with Wayne 30:19 and have a lot of closure on that, because she needed it. 30:23 She had so much guilt and she was one of the people that 30:27 just can find guilt and blamed herself for 30:30 a lot of things. So that was really, really good. 30:34 So you have watched him and believed in his recovery? 30:38 Yes. - and what is really funny is that when we first 30:42 met years ago, I think I watched you and believed in 30:45 your recovery, and so that is kind of fun. 30:48 - you asked me if you could kiss him. 30:49 - no, can I kiss him, I know he is your husband. 30:53 - you can kiss him on the forehead. 30:55 You know what I think, the reason I wanted to do that 30:58 is that my father molested me from three months old on. 31:01 I wanted somebody, it's like when somebody says well 31:04 molester's don't get well, I say that's gotta not be true. 31:07 Because I wanted my father to get well, I want for people 31:10 in my life that have hurt me in that way, I want them 31:14 to get well and not hurt anybody else. 31:16 So I was so discouraged and when I saw somebody actually 31:19 getting well, and really fighting for that and holding 31:22 onto Christ, I just had to give you a kiss. 31:24 I have to say I don't care what it takes Wayne, for us 31:28 get well. - Taking account- ability is what you said. 31:31 You saw somebody take accountability. 31:33 Taking accountability, stepping up to the plate. 31:35 You know victims need that, and it is a shame that your 31:39 father didn't admit even on his deathbed that you know 31:43 what? I did do this. 31:45 Because the victim says did I imagine it? Did it really 31:49 happen? Am I crazy? - Was it my fault?- Was it my fault? 31:53 There is no complete closure and healing available when 31:58 the perpetrator doesn't say yes I did it and I am sorry. 32:03 Can you please forgive me? 32:05 Now I say that understanding that with Christ all things 32:09 are possible, all things and He can heal our hearts. 32:12 But what a gift it is when a perpetrator not only changes 32:16 through Christ's strength, but then says to all his victims 32:21 I am sorry, can you forgive me? 32:24 And truly from the heart means it. 32:27 And that is why I am so blessed by you, I know from the 32:31 heart you are holding on to your recovery and you mean 32:35 what you are saying. 32:36 I'm going to open it up for questions, it's a little early 32:39 then we typically do but I'm going to open up for 32:41 questions, we are going to talk about your accountability. 32:43 That is my favorite thing about you guys is that you keep 32:46 yourself accountable and God is going to put you in a 32:48 ministry where you are going to say this out loud people. 32:51 You are going to get nailed, you know that? - oh yeah. 32:54 He promises not to test us beyond what we can endure. 32:57 But you're going to feel sometimes, did you remember that 33:01 God? And I say that I admire the fact that you are not 33:04 going to shut up, because you have gotten healed. 33:06 God is faithful to you. 33:07 So open up questions, Teresa, we're going to talk to you 33:13 first, do you have a question for Wayne? 33:14 When I was a teenager I was molested by my cousin for a 33:19 couple years, and I always feel guilty and I was thinking 33:24 why me? Why are you doing that to me? 33:26 What am I doing that, I don't know why feel like what am 33:31 I doing so you are trying to tease me, trying to touch me, 33:36 why? I never understand why he did that to me. 33:39 It has nothing to do with you per se, you didn't do 33:42 anything that brought that on. 33:45 The person, was he much older than you? - yes 33:49 - just a little bit older than you. 33:50 Okay, that person has the power, both physical power and 33:53 the mental power. 33:54 You weren't in a position, how old were you? 33:56 I was 12. - you were 12 and you weren't in a position 33:58 really to think clearly, Oh why is this happening at the time. 34:03 You were taken advantage of. Okay? You were an object 34:08 to that person, they didn't see you as a precious child 34:14 of God with a soul, with feelings. 34:16 That person somehow had to take the truth that you are 34:20 a precious real person and push it aside and treat 34:24 you as an object and how that happened for that person 34:28 you would probably have to go back deeper. 34:30 I don't know what happened in that person's life, 34:32 not that it excuses what he did in any way, 34:36 but you will probably find something in his background 34:39 that led to that. 34:41 I'm sorry, I'm sorry that happened for you. 34:45 No one deserves that, we have rights to our bodies. 34:49 No one has the right to touch our bodies without our 34:53 permission, we need to teach our boys, especially boys, 34:58 to be respectful of girls and of women. 35:02 That needs to be something we are intentional about in our 35:06 churches, especially our churches. - Amen! 35:09 You know Teresa, one of the things that I have learned 35:12 over the years is that it stays with us forever. 35:16 I mean it just so much pain with molest, and this violation, 35:22 there is so much pain and so much the stays with us. 35:25 I really believe, and I know that we are talking about 35:28 you and your healing but I really believe that God wants 35:32 us, victims both male and female to stand up and know 35:36 that He can restore that innocence within us. 35:39 He can also restore that sense of who we were before the 35:43 violation and we also have to surrender that to Him. 35:47 You know God give that back to Me, that was stolen from Me and 35:51 God wants to do that both for the perpetrator and 35:55 for the victim because it was never supposed to happen. 36:00 I want to now say Jeanette, Jeanette you are criminologist 36:04 and you have dealt with the subject in a number of ways. 36:08 Seeing both the victims and perpetrators, what do you 36:12 want to say? - First of all I want to talk about 36:15 accountability, I think it is a very good word and a word 36:18 that the general public needs to understand. 36:20 It is a mutual responsibility, this is not 36:22 a responsibility just for the perpetrator, but also 36:26 for all of us. 36:27 I grew up in New York City, and my mother was very, 36:31 very protective of who we stayed with and what we did and 36:34 what we wore. I think these things are very important. 36:37 I think we tend to just label the offender and 36:41 we don't label how the offense came to be. 36:44 Criminal justice perspective, criminals can't commit 36:47 crimes unless there is opportunity. 36:49 I think that we leave a lot of opportunity open out there 36:52 for children to be unattended, we leave them alone at 36:54 home, we leave them with the neighbor we don't know much 36:57 about, we send them on Camping trips that the Church has, 37:00 all male or all-female and we don't think about the 37:03 consequences or the accountability that goes on 37:07 there because we are so naive. 37:09 I think accountability requires that a lot of the 37:12 naive behavior dissipate and that we in this sinful 37:15 world we live in that we open our eyes because even with 37:18 Megan's law, even with all the registry. 37:21 Explain Megan's law, because a lot of people don't 37:23 understand what that is. 37:24 Well Megan's law is basically that they are required to 37:28 register, every time they move they are required to 37:31 register so that everyone in the community has public 37:34 record of where the sex offender are listed. 37:36 Although that might be well, there are sex offenders that 37:39 are not registered yet and they still live near you and 37:42 are offending, I think they are offending because Megan's 37:45 law is a double edge sword. 37:47 If we take the sex offender to the left is the one 37:49 we need to worry about, but what about the ones to 37:51 the right that hasn't been registered yet? 37:53 So I think what I am saying here is mutual accountability 37:55 where they are in a church setting, or you are in 37:58 a community, as parents, and I have a child myself, 38:01 I have to be aware of my surroundings. 38:03 I have to be aware that everyone from the cable Guy that 38:06 walks into the house with cables, anyone can be a sex 38:08 offender. - and women, sometimes we don't think of 38:11 women, it is not - the babysitter. 38:14 What about what she pointed out, your relative? 38:18 Did you report him? - no. - so how many of them in 38:22 our family that are not reported that are right there. 38:25 No let me just say, I just want to make a point where you 38:28 are saying Jeanette is that was somebody I worked with 38:31 before told me that they had their son a church and what 38:35 they would say to their son, he was probably three or four 38:37 years old and would want to go to the bathroom and they 38:40 were talking to a bunch of other adults and they said, 38:42 just run in there and go to the bathroom. 38:43 He was molested all the time in the bathroom at church 38:47 when the adults were in a meeting. 38:49 So just being able to say that as you're talking about 38:53 Wayne is accountability programs and that kind of stuff 38:57 is to in church not to be paranoid, because God doesn't 39:01 want us to live in fear or paranoia. 39:02 What He is saying is be smart, certain places attract 39:06 people that look for opportunities, and if there is 39:09 somebody trying to be healed, that person needs 39:11 accountability, but if there is somebody in there 39:14 that is not in healing and is acting out, if you have an 39:17 accountability program that is just there. 39:20 The children are not left under attended, that people 39:23 are aware of what is happening in the building and that 39:26 is a blessing, isn't that what you're saying Jeanette? 39:29 What I'm saying to everyone that is watching this program, 39:31 we have the tendency of beating the dead horse. 39:35 Yes he is a sex offender, yes he has paid his debt to 39:39 society and he served his time. 39:41 What do we do from this point on? 39:43 How can a person change if you are not given the 39:45 opportunity to change? 39:47 If you are eliminated from everything that is mainstream, 39:49 how will you ever know if you will reoffend? 39:52 It doesn't make sense, it's like chopping off arms and 39:55 legs and say walk, you can't do that. 39:56 You have to give the person the opportunity, but that 39:59 requires accountable people. 40:01 From a church perspective, looking at it from a Christian 40:04 perspective, I belong to a church and if I know there 40:07 is a sex offender in the church, whether they ask me to 40:10 be accountable or not, if I see them get up to use the 40:12 bathroom I may make the excuse used the bathroom myself 40:15 make sure where he goes, not that I'm going to stop him 40:17 from doing anything but at least that can be 40:20 accountable for he has been. 40:21 He's been to this room and he's been to that room. 40:23 I think that we are all responsible, we can't leave it 40:25 to just one person to be accountable. 40:27 What is really incredible with you Wayne, and what 40:30 you told me about your accountability program is that 40:34 there are some men that have contacted or said to you 40:36 I will be your partner, and when you go to the bathroom 40:39 what happens? I can just tap one of them on the shoulder 40:42 and say, hey, Tom or Ralph, I need to use the bathroom. 40:45 They know what that means - and they go with you. 40:48 That means follow me into the bathroom. 40:50 They are aware of that but what happens when people are 40:51 not aware, and I think that is a part. 40:53 We can't all walk around with a cowbell and say, hey, 40:56 I'm a sex offender, I'm making noise and bringing this 40:58 attention to myself. 40:59 I've had to counsel, by myself, in an office at night 41:04 a group of convicted rapists, and to me 41:08 everyone said did you have a gun? No I didn't have a gun, 41:10 I had common sense that the good Lord gave me from living and 41:13 being raised in New York City, what I did is I 41:15 kept their hands busy. 41:17 And at the end of the night there was one or two 41:19 that wanted to talk to me privately and I would keep 41:21 their hands full, can you carry these books for me and 41:23 you carry this for me and never when showing them there 41:26 was any fear because there really wasn't. 41:28 I felt protection from God. 41:29 I'm not saying that everybody should have that kind of 41:31 fearlessness, what I am saying to you is that you have to 41:34 use some common sense. 41:35 I had to say for the years that I did this, I never had 41:38 any incidents that I could ever say made me feel fearful. 41:41 But I think part of that has mutual respect, when that 41:44 person felt respected at that time and that there was one 41:48 smidgen of trust, they were required to fulfill that role. 41:51 That was what was happening. 41:53 I think when you're given trust Wayne, I think you feel 41:56 responsible for given that trust back. -Oh yeah! 41:59 So that is where we fall short, now I understand some 42:02 of the issues is contributed to you, but you have to 42:04 understand, Wayne wasn't the one who offended you. 42:06 We have the tendency of generalizing, if anyone type of 42:10 person did something to us, we can't say that everyone 42:13 that looks like that did the same thing. 42:15 I think it is also being able to identify, yes I was 42:18 molested, but it wasn't Wayne who molested me. 42:20 I know that he might have molested someone else, 42:23 and that is terrible, but he wasn't the person. 42:25 That is how you are able to cope with a lot of 42:27 the stuff, when you recognize this is not 42:28 the person who molested you. 42:31 What's really interesting about that Wayne it is even as I am 42:34 dealing with that, I realize a lot of my difficulty was 42:40 not being able to forgive that. 42:42 It was like what was left unfinished with me and so what 42:46 you are saying is he is not the offender. 42:47 I went to a church and they asked me to help them set 42:50 up an accountability program in their church. 42:52 So I went to the church, it was three churches and nine 42:55 offenders, registered offenders within those three 42:58 churches, and so it's like how do we keep everybody safe? 43:02 As I walked in what was really interesting, it felt like 43:05 half of the church were victims and half of the church 43:08 were offenders, I mean it was just like. 43:11 They were not speaking to each other, and one half wanted 43:15 me to say, you know what? He is wrong. 43:17 He should not be here. He should be shot. 43:20 The perpetrators were wanting me to say to the other 43:24 people, is let me heal and I am only going to get through 43:27 this if God holds me, if I can stay in this building, if you 43:32 could love me and trust me, I so desperately don't want 43:35 to reoffend, and I saw that so loudly on both sides. 43:39 And being able to walk in, I took a breath and thought God 43:42 I don't even know how I'm going to present this weekend, 43:45 these seminars? And God said the same thing, 43:47 I love every one of you. 43:49 I don't want to heal one side and not the other. 43:52 I want to heal everybody. 43:53 And what was really interesting looking at these two 43:57 groups, I understand the triggering stuff, I understand 44:00 when you see somebody you know has that history and all 44:04 of a sudden every abuse that have ever hurt you in any 44:07 way comes into your mind, God says you know what? 44:10 A church cannot be healthy that way, we have to give 44:13 all of that to Him. 44:14 We have trust in Him with all that and accept healing on 44:18 every side, and I love, even with Jeanette said, is when 44:22 you and I become friends you actually want to be even 44:26 accountable to me in my victimization and I want to be 44:29 accountable to you and forgiving you and not having 44:32 you live over from what happened to me. 44:35 What do you think of that Wayne? What do you think 44:37 of all this stuff? 44:39 Well what I think is that God is finally bringing this 44:43 into the church, He is finally saying look, this has had 44:47 such a strong stigma for years. 44:49 It needs to be dealt with head-on. 44:51 - and said out loud. - said out loud. 44:53 It used to be alcoholism was something that had such a 44:56 stigma that people were embarrassed to check themselves 44:59 into rehab, we have to have people come forward even on 45:02 sexual addictions and sexual offenses. 45:04 And child abuse, if anything it needs to be child abuse. 45:07 They are the most innocent of all victims on the planet. 45:12 As the church hits this head on, it can finally get to the 45:17 point where all God's people can feel healing from both 45:21 sides of it, the victims, from the perpetrator side. 45:25 You know who loses? Satan! He has been winning 45:28 too long with this because he keeps it suppressed. 45:32 He keeps people afraid of saying anything, and that is 45:35 what is so diabolical about this particular sin. 45:38 It is kept under the rug for years and years and gets 45:42 passed on from generation to generation. 45:44 God is saying enough. I am bringing this out. 45:48 I need my church to be healed from this before 45:52 He can take it home. 45:54 You know what I would like to have you do is talk to 45:57 somebody watching that is a perpetrator and is hurting 46:01 children right now, what would you say to them? 46:04 What I would say, right now while this subject is 46:07 in your mind, do not turn off the TV. 46:10 God has an appointment with you right now, not with me 46:13 but with God. 46:15 You know what you have done, you know the look of fear 46:18 over your victims when they see you coming towards them 46:22 yet again, you already know what it is like to hurt 46:26 this child. Stop, now. 46:28 Make a choice in your mind right now, you have stopped. 46:33 Not next week, not next hour, today this second. 46:37 Get help, you need to find someone you trust. 46:42 If you cannot find someone you trust to share this 46:45 right now you need to go to Child protective services, 46:48 or some other agency. 46:50 They are there to help, you will go through certain 46:54 consequences but none of those consequences is compared 46:57 to hurting a child even one more time. 46:59 You have got to look at that as a balance. 47:01 Hurting a child more time verses maybe going to jail, 47:05 maybe losing your marriage, maybe losing your job. 47:08 None of that compares to hurting a child, 47:10 even one more time. 47:12 Right now, make that call to someone you trust who will keep 47:17 you accountable. - you know Wayne, what I have to say is 47:22 that I know that your passion to not be silent about this 47:28 issue and to be able to work with perpetrators and 47:32 encourage them to get a life, to get healing, and let 47:35 God bless you and bring joy into your life and not 47:38 secrecy and hiding and all that kind of stuff. 47:41 Think of the joy, put your mind in a minute where I am. 47:44 Nobody wants to emphasize with the offenders. 47:47 But think about what an offender feels. 47:50 They go through so much guilt, if they have a conscience 47:53 left and are not total psychopath, if they are have 47:56 a conscience left, they feel so guilty, so angry but 47:59 there is no outlet. There is no way - so filthy. 48:01 So filthy, so ugly. 48:03 In my case it was my daughter, two years old. 48:07 Now there was no penetration but the point is 48:11 she was still molested. 48:12 Her father, the one most responsible for taking care 48:16 of her, was the one hurting her. 48:18 Take all of those feelings and then know that society 48:23 just like you said would like to shoot you. 48:26 It is very difficult for anyone to say I need help, 48:30 very difficult. God says I see all of that and I know 48:33 all of that, you know what I sent my Son Jesus Christ 48:36 to take it on Himself, even that filth. 48:41 Jesus didn't do it, but He said I will take it because 48:44 I love you Wayne, I love you who ever it is right now. 48:47 I love you He says. 48:49 I will put it on Myself and I will die in your place, 48:52 but now can we be friends? I want to heal you from this. 48:55 Not partway, when Jesus said here to the blind man, 48:59 I will heal you, well actually next week, next year. 49:03 Now! He wants to do it now and use you to help someone 49:08 else come out of that junk too. 49:10 That is when God has triumphed and the devil he loses. 49:15 And that is what we want. 49:16 You know what is really funny is as you're saying that? 49:19 I never really thought about the joy you must feel when 49:21 God says I forgive you. I love you. I think you are 49:25 amazing, you are a man of God standing holy in the 49:28 presence of a holy God. - by God's grace. - man! 49:31 I wanted to point out that when you opened up you said 49:34 something about the fact that he pointed out to you on 49:36 that meeting that you were wearing an outfit 49:38 that was see-through. 49:40 When you think of addiction, and you think of triggers, 49:43 if that was the trigger for him or any sex offender, 49:46 think about some of the stuff we do. 49:49 We tend to point the finger at everyone else, but some 49:51 of the things that we do that trigger the people 49:54 that are dealing with these issues - exactly. 49:57 I think that we have, that's why mutual accountability 50:01 is so important because like I said, the criminal mind 50:04 requires opportunity, and opportunity is obviously 50:08 through triggers and leaving things unattended, 50:13 children unattended situations where you are scantily 50:16 clad, or inappropriately dressed, or just creating 50:20 situations and those are the things that I have concerns. 50:22 I see a lot of young people today even in the church where 50:25 very young girls are wearing very little into church, 50:28 not even the house of God gets respect and even from 50:30 a church perspective because I know in some states before 50:33 they even allow a sex offender to go to church, they have 50:36 to meet a certain criteria, and they had contact the Pastor 50:39 of that church to find out if it is okay, and who is 50:43 going to become accountable for that person. 50:45 They can't just walk right into church, they are 50:48 required in some states to actually be notified if 50:50 they are going to be there. 50:51 Yes there is a lot of red tape that goes along with the 50:56 scarlet letter, and I think even to the house of God 51:00 some people had to wait two years before they are eligible 51:02 to be able to be in a church setting, in a park, 51:06 in a library, in a movie theater. 51:07 They are not allowed to go into places where children are 51:10 at, mostly because the irresponsibility of some parents 51:13 letting young kids go to places unattended. 51:15 I think that is something that we as a society need to 51:18 take responsibility as well if we're parents of young children 51:22 not to let them go to certain places in this day and age 51:24 alone and unattended. 51:26 That is an incredible point Jeanette. 51:27 It's very important amusement parks, Disneyland, places like 51:31 these were children going to bathrooms unattended and 51:33 they don't know what's there in a place where there is 51:35 just a lot of people there from all walks of life and 51:37 they can't put a sign in Disneyland 51:40 don't have sex offenders here. 51:42 That is a playground for sex offenders, would be a place 51:45 like Disneyland, yet parents let their kids run amok 51:47 in a place like that. 51:48 And I want to say, even with that, it sounds like if 51:52 we could do what the church is called to do and just 51:56 keep a safe environment that I don't have to keep you 51:59 from Camp meeting. - right. 52:01 - because I want you to hear these 52:03 incredible speakers, I want you to be there. 52:05 I want you to be blessed by that, I want you to get 52:07 stronger on your feet and if we keep pushing you out, 52:10 pushing anybody out, if I am an addict and nobody wants 52:13 me there than I am not going to be able 52:15 to stay in my recovery. 52:17 So the same time as saying is being able to say that 52:20 please don't, don't exclude me from these things that 52:24 are going to give me life. - that's right! 52:26 If we do, we do it at our own hurt because sex offenders, 52:29 if they are wanting recovery, I realize many do not. 52:35 That is sad. - you do. - praise God. 52:37 I love that. - praise God for that. - Amen! 52:40 But if they are wanting help, if they are wanting to be 52:42 a part of a church family, and I see church because again 52:46 it is the one organization on the planet that really needs 52:49 to rise to the occasion here. 52:50 It needs to say, you know what? There for the grace of 52:53 God, God. - exactly. 52:55 If they want healing and recovery, we have to find a way 53:00 that protects the children again, but also is redemptive 53:04 in the way we reach out to them. 53:05 If we do not, they end up what? Once they're released 53:09 from jail, they end up recidivism is so high for this 53:13 offense, it is so high because the depression comes in, 53:16 the fear comes in, oh am I going to do it again? 53:18 Once you get over that boundary of, well I just might 53:23 as well do it, that is so dangerous. 53:25 We have to not only go through therapy, learn the walls 53:32 they need to be erect against opportunity. 53:35 You said the opportunity, can't have opportunity you 53:37 can't have an offense. Okay? 53:38 You have to have that there, but they also have to have 53:41 Christ, because without Christ there really isn't any 53:45 full accountability and recovery. 53:47 And I have to say we are running out of time. 53:49 I can't even believe it, and I love you and I want to 53:52 thank you for your being so brave. 53:54 I want to thank you both for coming on the show. 53:56 I want to thank you for your ministry and I wanted to say 53:59 you know what I will pray for you whenever I think about 54:02 you and I want to ask you to never be silent. 54:04 Make sure that we get this point. 54:07 Please stay tuned because this is not it. 54:10 We will be right back! 54:16 Amazing stories, real people in real situations, discussing 54:19 issues that really matter. 54:21 A complete first season of Celebrating Life In Recovery is 54:25 now available on DVD and can be ordered by calling 3ABN 54:28 or online at 3ABN.org hosted by Cheri Peters. 54:31 This season follows principles of the book 54:34 'Steps to Christ'. 54:36 See for yourself how God changed the lives of the 54:38 convicted and the accused and victims of terrible crimes. 54:41 You won't want to miss a moment of these powerful interviews. 54:49 So what have you decided? Remember I told you it was 54:52 going to be one of the best shows. 54:54 And a really think it is the best episode because 54:56 we have to bring this stuff out in the open. 54:58 We have to believe that God is bigger than our junk. 55:01 And we can't believe He is only bigger than our junk 55:03 if our junk is small, we have to believe He is bigger 55:06 than all of that. 55:07 That Christ took on everything, and He took on everything 55:10 to reconcile us back to God because that is the only thing 55:14 that brings Him joy, that is what the whole thing is 55:16 about is bringing us into a place of healing. 55:19 I have to ask you Wayne, is what ever happened with your 55:22 daughter was there reconciliation there? 55:24 Praise God there was, she was only two years old when 55:28 I molested her, and she has no real recollection of it. 55:31 She was told about it later in therapy and it was tough 55:35 for her, but she was only nine at the time. 55:37 It was later when she was 11 and going through puberty 55:41 that it really hit her hard and for three years she cut 55:44 off communication with me, my wife and my whole family 55:48 actually, but praise God we have been praying seriously 55:51 ever since this all started and I became a Christian. 55:56 She came to the Lord in 2005, will actually she came back 56:00 into our lives and with talking with us she and I had 56:05 a conversation where she heard me take full 56:08 responsibility for what had happened. 56:10 And she yanked my hand to the sky and said you are the 56:12 best father in the world. 56:14 And you know what? She finally got it, she didn't get it 56:18 at nine as much, she finally had the real healing that 56:21 she needed and praise God she is in the church, 56:25 she is a part of our life, and she's a blessed 56:28 16-year-old daughter now. Yes I do. Always have. 56:32 You know what is really interesting to me is as 56:35 God heals us, as He comes into our lives, He really does want 56:39 us to stand up and help someone else. 56:42 We were talking about God using other people or standing 56:49 up and bringing reconciliation, bringing healing, bringing all 56:52 that stuff, but He does that for a reason. 56:55 He says when you get it, when you finally get it I want 56:58 you to stand and help someone else. 57:00 I want you to go out, for me I work with addicts, people 57:03 who are strong on different things, people who have 57:06 came out a life of dysfunction and try to encourage 57:10 them to surrender that to God. 57:11 Wayne, his ministry right now, his love is to work with 57:15 perpetrators, we looked at Jeanette and she works with 57:19 people coming out of all kinds of lifestyles. 57:22 God says, you know what? I want to heal you so that 57:24 you can bring that healing to someone else and I don't 57:27 want you to be oppressed by that, I don't want you to 57:30 in fear of that, I want you to accept healing and I want 57:32 you to be blessed, I want you to be filled with joy, 57:35 I want you to know that I am absolutely crazy about you. 57:38 Until next time remember that God is crazy about 57:41 you and me too! See you next time. |
Revised 2014-12-17