Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Cliff and Freddie Harris
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000004
00:10 Hello and welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery.
00:12 I am Cheri your host and today we will be looking at
00:15 the importance of coming out of hiding.
00:17 Saying out loud to God I am a mess.
00:20 Come in and join us.
00:49 The Bible says that he who covers his sins shall not
00:52 prosper, but whoever confesses for his sake walks away
00:55 stops doing it will have mercy.
00:58 That is in Proverbs 28:13.
01:00 I love that because when I first came to Christ, I'm a
01:03 mess, I'm a heroin addict, I was in a drug house trying
01:06 to kill myself, and I have so many different things that
01:10 were just were wrong.
01:14 There was nothing that I could pull from and say but
01:18 this part of my life is okay.
01:20 I came to God, and the more I brought to Him, the more
01:24 that I said to Him, you know I am such a mess here
01:27 and I need help here.
01:28 I never felt condemned, what I felt like is that He just
01:31 took all that and said, I love you and I can walk you out
01:35 of that, and I forgive you.
01:37 We're going to talk about this on this show.
01:40 We're going to talk about confession, we are going to
01:42 talk about what do I bring to God, what don't I bring to God?
01:45 What is God's response to what I put on the table?
01:47 It is so amazing, and if you get this you will not be
01:51 afraid to work on any of your issues.
01:53 But before we get started I want to introduce you to
01:56 who is at the café today.
01:57 I have some incredible folks here, some friends of mine.
02:00 Fa'asoa, and I know that you are in the seminary now and
02:03 going to be a Pastor so I'll call you Pastor Fa'asoa.
02:07 So now before you get your Pastorate, I want to confess
02:10 a bunch of stuff, No! I'm kidding.
02:13 Mark is from the Oklahoma conference, the treasurer,
02:16 the most important person at the conference, I think.
02:18 Leticia, you are a R.N. and married to Fa'asoa and just
02:25 not just had a baby, recently had a baby.
02:28 Susan I love you and we are going to be talking about
02:30 all your stuff on another show, I love that.
02:33 Cliff and Freddie Harris, I just want to say thank you
02:37 so much for coming.
02:38 Where actually going to do your testimony Cliff, and you
02:42 are going to tell us a little bit, or a lot about how God
02:44 brought you to place of healing.
02:48 Then, what you are doing with that, so I'm going to
02:51 be blessed by that.
02:53 Before we get into that, I want to talk to you a little
02:55 bit about confession.
03:04 You know I like that because when I met God, like I said,
03:08 I was such a mess and I'm strung out on heroin.
03:11 I was depressed, I was so done.
03:14 I had lived 10 years on the street and was involved in a
03:18 ton of different things and I didn't believe there was a
03:21 decent person on the planet.
03:24 I have to say that a lot because I was on the street for
03:30 10 years and if I'm in a Pastor or if I met a Doctor,
03:33 met somebody that was in a legitimate field, I met them
03:38 because of darker addictions.
03:39 I met them because they had either sexual addictions or
03:42 drug addictions, or they wanted to walk on the darker
03:45 side and those things.
03:47 I didn't meet a lot of people who are dishonest
03:48 about who they were.
03:50 So when I met God and realized that He just wanted me to
03:54 come to Him just as I am.
03:57 I know there is a song, and that might sound a little
03:59 trite to say, but He said come to me just as you are.
04:02 I was sitting, like I said, on a drug bed in a drug house
04:06 trying to kill myself and God was so incredible.
04:09 He really did look at me and said you are lovely to Me.
04:12 I was such a mess, I was such a mess and I remember
04:16 sitting there thinking what do you mean I'm lovely to You?
04:19 You know I was molested all my life, my father was caught
04:25 the first time when I was three months old.
04:26 There was never a time that I had some healthy stuff
04:31 growing up and from that going on the streets at 13 years
04:37 old, getting into drugs, had a pregnancy at 12 years old.
04:42 Lost some twins, got into stripping clubs in dealing
04:48 drugs and all that stuff.
04:49 I'm sitting there and feel like the presence of God is
04:52 there and He is saying, I adore you, you are lovely.
04:55 I'm thinking this can't be God because I would think
04:59 that God would be pointing His finger at me and saying
05:01 you know what, you are a mess.
05:03 You have to clean up and every thing about you is not good.
05:07 You are not good, that is what I expected God to say.
05:10 He didn't, He said I so love you, don't hurt yourself
05:13 anymore, you don't need to do this anymore.
05:15 I remember just feeling so amazingly loved.
05:19 I even got a vision from God that I was innocent in His
05:24 eyes and I started to weep because I thought innocent!
05:28 I've never been innocent, I'm angry and full of junk.
05:33 He said you know what? You have always been that way to
05:37 Me and I promise you, if you stand up and trust Me,
05:41 I will walk you into this relationship, this image
05:45 I was showing you.
05:46 I'm thinking, I would give anything, if what You're saying
05:49 is true, I would give anything.
05:51 I started to come to Christ and I remember thinking,
05:54 this was so crazy, I remember thinking I do trust You.
06:02 As I read the Bible, the Bible says God is going to give
06:05 me a new mind and the new heart and all that.
06:07 I do not have even one thing that I think about, and Cliff
06:12 you are going to know this is true and say the same thing
06:14 I am sure, but one thing I thought about that was normal.
06:17 The things that went into my head, this example, the first
06:23 time I went to church, I meet God, I turn it over,
06:26 I trust Him that He is going to help me in recovery.
06:28 I go to church and I'm sitting there and the offering
06:31 plate goes by, I think I really need some money.
06:35 I could really use that, and it took me five years to
06:39 let the offering plate go by without stealing something.
06:42 It was like you know 20 bucks who is going to miss it?
06:46 It was just like everything I thought about was bad.
06:51 And every single time I would cry, I would be in prayer
06:55 and just cry and say God, you know what?
06:57 Nothing, I can't even, the Pastor with say something that
07:01 I think could be taken a little in an off-color way.
07:04 I would be busting up and people were looking at me
07:07 like what do you think He said.
07:09 I said you don't even want me to say.
07:11 And just an example of that, there were soccer moms
07:15 watching a soccer game and I had a little girl and she
07:18 was just so cute, in soccer.
07:20 People with say Cheri, why you so quiet?
07:23 I was thinking because everything I think is a little
07:25 twisted, so I don't want to just say a lot of things.
07:29 They were saying no just say whatever comes to your mind.
07:32 They said, I just don't want to.
07:36 So they had a whole soccer team that got held up behind
07:40 a train, right?
07:41 So they get hold up behind a train and they are late for
07:44 the soccer game, everybody is waiting for them.
07:46 So when they got there, everybody ran out into the field
07:49 and people were talking on the sidelines about times
07:52 they had gotten held up and were late for some things.
07:55 I'm listening and trying to be normal.
07:59 When I try to be normal it's really funny, because is this
08:01 normal, or maybe this is normal, I bet this is normal.
08:05 I don't know how to be normal, I will have to forget that.
08:08 So I started laughing and somebody said what's so funny?
08:13 Oh you don't want to know.
08:14 Oh we want to know. I said no, no you don't.
08:16 Come on Cheri we want to know. I said okay.
08:19 One time I was stuck at a light, and I remember being
08:25 stuck there and sat there for the longest time.
08:29 I changed radio stations, I did whatever and then the
08:33 sun started coming up, and I thought I've been here
08:36 a long time, about six hours.
08:38 Somebody said six hours you are stuck at a light?
08:41 Well I was high on acid, they said what!
08:44 It was like all the normal moms was just like maybe
08:48 you shouldn't say anything.
08:52 But God was never like that, He said just tell Me stuff.
08:56 If you have things you need to share with Me, things about
08:59 drugs, inappropriate thinking, or wanting to steal from
09:02 the offering plate, or what ever.
09:04 I couldn't drive down the street after I got in recovery,
09:07 I had 42 traffic warrants for my arrest
09:09 when I got in recovery.
09:11 So for years and years and years I constantly looked in
09:14 my rearview mirror and if there was a police officer
09:16 there, and now you have to know I'm a Christian and
09:18 legit and doing everything right.
09:20 I got a nursing degree and went back to school, but if a
09:24 police officer pulled behind me, my heart would just race.
09:26 Oh I'm going to prison, this is terrible.
09:28 I wasn't even doing anything wrong, but God just said
09:32 confess it to Me, bring it to Me.
09:34 I'm not going to ask you to do like a thousand repentative
09:39 prayers about something, I'm not going to ask you to be
09:42 good for the next year and then I'll forgive you, I will
09:45 forgive you as soon as you bring it up to the table.
09:47 As soon as you bring it to the table I am not going to
09:50 make you spill your own blood for that.
09:53 I've already done that, you don't have to do it and I
09:54 promise you I will put My hand on you and heal you.
09:58 I thought no way, and I start bringing things to the table,
10:02 not the ugly stuff first, you know what I mean?
10:05 First of all I brought the drug addiction.
10:07 Oh no I didn't, I brought all my victims stuff first.
10:10 Things that were done to me, because it was
10:12 somebody else's fault, first I put molest, the fact that
10:16 my mom didn't love me, the fact that I never learned to
10:19 trust anybody, the fact that I had detachment disorders
10:22 and bonding disorders and didn't know how to socialize
10:25 because I'm underdeveloped socially.
10:27 And I put that stuff on the table and He would do this
10:29 incredible thing, He would clear the table and set this
10:33 banquet, the stuff wouldn't stay on the table very long.
10:37 I thought how did You do that?
10:39 So then I started putting the darker stuff on there,
10:41 the things I was ashamed about, the things that I probably
10:44 won't even share here in the café because some things are
10:47 between you and God.
10:48 That stuff I will put on the table, and I will put it on
10:51 the table with my hands shaking, I'm so afraid because
10:54 I can't stand it because if You don't accept me, I don't
10:58 know what I am going to do.
10:59 If You can't forgive this, I don't know what I'm going to do
11:02 when I put it on the table and I felt His smile.
11:04 I can forgive all of it, there is nothing that you have
11:08 or have ever done, then I cannot forgive.
11:11 I thought man, how cool is He! How cool is He!
11:15 I felt like that with every single thing.
11:18 One time I was driving down the street, and I was having
11:22 an incredible time with God.
11:24 I was loving Him and singing some worship songs and
11:27 I had the radio on.
11:29 The song came on 'I can only imagine', you guys know
11:31 that song? Café audience: yes!
11:32 I can only imagine, what will I do when I'm walking
11:36 with Christ, when I'm standing there and looking at Him?
11:39 How cool, will I be able to sing?
11:41 Will I stand in awe? Will I be silent?
11:43 Nobody that knows me thinks I will be silent, but I may
11:46 be, it's like you never can tell.
11:49 Then there is a line that they keep repeating,
11:51 Will I dance for you Jesus or in awe of You be still?
11:55 I was a stripper in a club when I was 13 years old.
11:59 I've seen some really dark stuff when I was young.
12:03 I started crying when I heard that line, I started just
12:07 weeping because I thought that was the worst part of my
12:10 past that I could think of.
12:11 Of course I am not going to bring that to heaven with me.
12:14 Through the Holy Spirit, He silently said, you will dance
12:17 for Me and it will be amazing, it will be holy.
12:20 I will give all that back and you will be full of joy.
12:23 I have forgiven you Cheri, let that go.
12:26 I thought God, how good are You?
12:29 So I want to say that we are going introduce you to the
12:32 guests and have a testimony, but I want to tell you:
12:42 you know what, have you ever heard of bankruptcy court?
12:45 In bankruptcy court is when you are overwhelmed with
12:50 bills, and you can afford to pay the bill's you have.
12:53 There are laws in place to step in and help you out.
12:57 I'm not suggesting bankruptcy, but listen to this analogy.
13:00 It's going to be weak compared to heavenly things.
13:03 I think it explains a lot.
13:05 In bankruptcy court if I come up and give you the credit
13:09 cards, and give you the debt and show you where I am
13:11 stuck at in medical bills and stuff.
13:14 The judge can only forgive what I have given them.
13:18 The laws say that they will, anything I give them they
13:21 will forgive, but if I forget some things,
13:24 those things aren't forgiven.
13:26 God says get this, all of heaven wants you to bring everything
13:32 to God, every single thing.
13:35 Everything that you think, everything you have done,
13:38 everything you have tried to hide in your life bring
13:40 it to God, do not let the devil play with
13:43 you with it anymore.
13:44 Don't let your own head play with you anymore.
13:46 God says, I want to take it from you, I want to forgive
13:50 you, and if you need it back, sometimes we have so much
13:54 damage, sexual damage and all that stuff.
13:57 God says I created you to be a sexual beings and I want to
14:00 give you that back, but let me clean it up and give it
14:03 back and you will be amazed, it's cool!
14:05 You won't have all that dark stuff with your addictions.
14:10 God says, I promise you that whatever you give to Me,
14:13 I will forgive, and a lot of times God says, I will
14:17 forgive you before it even comes out of your mouth.
14:19 I am waiting for you to bring it out.
14:21 I know what's there and I know it's keeping you tied up.
14:23 I want to forgive you.
14:25 So we are going to go ahead and break.
14:27 I want to introduce you to Cliff and Freddie Harris.
14:30 They are amazing and Cliff has been through some stuff.
14:34 Probably Freddie too, because she married him.
14:37 So stay tuned will be right back.
14:44 We want to introduce you to a beautiful book called
14:47 'Steps to Christ', each program in this series is
14:50 based on a different chapter showing you how to become
14:53 a Christian and gain victory over your addictions.
14:56 'Steps to Christ' is our gift to you, free of charge.
14:59 Just call us at:
15:04 During regular business hours, or write to:
15:28 A man that I have a privilege of presenting to you today,
15:31 has a long history of success in his field.
15:33 His accomplishments are many, first of all he is an honor
15:37 graduate from Colorado State Penitentiary.
15:39 Received his bachelor's degree in burglary in 1977.
15:43 He returned in 1983 and received a Master's Degree in
15:46 larceny and prior to completing his higher education,
15:50 he enrolled in numerous institutes, including the Denver
15:54 County Jail, Arapahoe County Jail, Adams County Jail
15:58 Lake Alford Florida County Jail, Long beach California
16:02 County Jail.
16:03 His Elementary School includes a Dallas City Jail,
16:06 Overland Ohio Jail, Denver County Jail,
16:10 and Aurora City Jail.
16:13 His professional experience includes 10 years as a
16:15 heroine addict, 8 years as a cocaine addict, with
16:18 20 years of marijuana use in 5 years of
16:21 amphetamines and barbiturates.
16:23 He is direct experience includes robbery, IV drug
16:27 addiction, burglary, extortion, assault and battery,
16:30 larceny, contempt of court, filthy language, trespassing,
16:34 and possession of narcotics, but
16:37 he comes to you today as a new creature in Christ
16:40 with 21 years of sobriety, a new wife and family,
16:43 owner of a home, President of a drug alternative program,
16:46 and an author of a book called 'Death Dance'.
16:48 It is my great pleasure to introduce to Doctor, Ah, well
16:53 maybe Doctor of all that junk.
16:55 Cliff Harris, I just want to say thank you for coming.
16:57 Thank you for joining us, and Freddie Harris, I want to
17:00 ask you, is all that true?
17:03 It's all true, but I met him after the fact.
17:06 Okay Cliff you have to tell us what's up.
17:09 How did all that start?
17:11 How did you get into sobriety with all that?
17:13 Well, I guess some of you are wondering where I became
17:20 a Christian, came into the church and was born and
17:24 raised, I'm a third generation of Seventh-day Adventist.
17:28 Cheri: no way!
17:29 You know my father always took us to prayer meeting,
17:34 and he always took us to Sabbath school.
17:37 I even attended Pine Forge Academy.
17:40 I have had cousins who are Presidents of Conferences.
17:44 I have a cousin who was a President of the Union.
17:47 But all that means nothing unless we have a personal
17:53 relationship with Jesus Christ. Cheri: Amen!
17:57 The bottom line, one thing I want you to get out of this
18:01 story is how much Jesus really loves us.
18:07 When we are not even thinking of a Jesus.
18:11 It's like Jesus who?
18:15 As a teenager I wouldn't let you smoke in my car.
18:20 I wouldn't let you drink in my car, but I ran with the
18:26 wrong group of guys, I wanted to be one of the fella's.
18:30 Didn't want to be left out, I can remember those guys
18:34 when they introduce that marijuana to me I got mad.
18:37 I got upset, what are you guys doing smoking that dope?
18:40 But I wanted to be part of, so I sucked on the weed.
18:47 Marijuana is okay, have you ever heard of anyone dying
18:51 or OD ing from smoking too much weed?
18:54 No, marijuana is cool, marijuana makes you laugh at
18:59 everything, makes you eat up everything in the house.
19:03 Marijuana is okay, but pretty soon marijuana is not good
19:08 enough, me stick a needle in my arm?
19:14 I came from a Christian family, a Seventh-day Adventist
19:18 family but I've got 2 marks on this arm and I've got 2
19:23 marks on this arm.
19:25 And it will be there the rest of my life.
19:28 When you start doing heroine, this is how you look when
19:33 you do heroin, in the chair motionless,
19:40 don't want to move, just enough to bring the cigarette
19:45 up to your mouth, that is your high.
19:48 But pretty soon, has anybody ever been to jail?
19:51 Cheri raises her hand, Okay.
19:53 Let's take a room maybe half this size packed with men,
19:59 packed, no windows, no benches and there would be one
20:03 toilet in that corner.
20:06 How would you like to go to the bathroom with an
20:08 audience of this size?
20:10 You will brother if you mess around, and pretty soon
20:14 a man will holler on the loudspeaker, strip!
20:17 That means take off all your clothes, socks included
20:21 if you have any on, and you will wait another
20:24 4 or 5 hours before he processes you.
20:27 Changes because I want to feel good, because I want
20:33 to be one of the fella's.
20:35 I wanna to tell you just one little story of my son.
20:42 Every time I tell this it hurts because you have to go
20:46 back, it is not that you just sit here and tell
20:50 a story, you have to relive it.
20:56 My son was just 12 years old, he was just 12.
21:03 I was downstairs in the basement and I had a syringe
21:10 in my arm and he came running down the steps and he
21:18 stopped at the second step that made him eye-level
21:22 with me and he pointed his finger at me and said,
21:26 daddy that's what you went to jail for last week.
21:34 And I know it's nothing but the Holy Spirit speaking
21:36 through him saying, Clifford get it together.
21:39 I'm not ready yet Jesus, I have to get high one more time.
21:52 Do you know what it's like to live with a drug addict?
21:55 Your wife comes home from work and she goes in her
22:00 bedroom and shuts the door.
22:02 Your kids come home from school and they go in their
22:05 bedroom and shut the door.
22:07 And you are sitting in the chair out, looking crazy,
22:11 because I want to feel good.
22:15 Because I want to be one of the fella's.
22:24 You know I sold my daughters bicycle.
22:29 She comes home from school and her bicycle is gone,
22:32 but that's okay, your daddy, daddy.
22:40 When you do drugs brother, you're dead, you're dead.
22:46 Drug's become the number one factor in your life.
22:52 You don't care about your mama, you don't care about
22:56 your children, you don't care about your wife,
22:58 you don't care about yourself.
23:02 Nothing else matters.
23:10 To tell you how bad you get, I wouldn't tell this
23:14 for a long time, you know I even tried to sell the dog.
23:24 When nobody would buy him I threw him out of the car.
23:35 You see these two fingers, nothing but Jesus.
23:40 A guy shot me because I beat him out of his drugs.
23:46 When he knew I beat him out of his drugs, he came in
23:50 and went out to the car and got his pistol and came back
23:54 in and put his hand down like that.
23:58 He just brought his hand down a little further he would
24:01 have gotten me in the side, but Jesus, when we are not
24:07 even thinking about a Jesus.
24:10 I love you Clifford, I love you.
24:19 But you know what, I'm going to jump ahead a little
24:29 because there is a lot in this story, it's the things
24:35 you do to your children.
24:40 I remember one time I was out on bond.
24:49 My mother, she had cancer and she was dying.
24:59 My mother lived in Florida and I was in Colorado.
25:08 My ex-wife let me, I wanted to go see my mama,
25:12 I knew it was going back prison, I knew there was no way
25:17 you going to get probation, you have to go.
25:20 You're going, well I thought about it like this.
25:26 I got to go see my mama because what if my mama dies
25:31 when I am in prison, I could never live that down.
25:36 All these things go through your mind.
25:38 I come from a good mama, a good mama.
25:42 Well my ex-wife let the kids go with me.
25:49 I think I have maybe $20 to drive all the way from
25:53 Colorado to Florida to see my mother.
25:59 I drove there on a stolen credit card, got to Florida.
26:09 Went to jail there to see my mother.
26:16 You know what my mama said to me?
26:17 I'll never forget these words, never.
26:22 My mama, this is what my mama is telling me.
26:26 She is on her deathbed and do you know what
26:28 she said to me?
26:30 She wasn't angry, Clifford I wish you had never come
26:36 to see me because I knew you were still on that stuff.
26:41 This is what my mama is saying to me.
26:45 Your mother is telling you I don't want to see you.
26:52 Well, do you know I lived a double life?
26:59 I had a family, three children and I bought my home
27:04 when I was 21, my wife couldn't even sign because
27:09 she wasn't old enough.
27:10 You see I didn't start doing drugs until I was married
27:13 and had three children, didn't do nothing like that.
27:20 Because I wanted to do what my father did, my father
27:23 took care of the family, that was it.
27:28 I wanted to do it my father did, but got off track.
27:33 Satan grabs a hold, and you let him grab a hold.
27:38 Well I decided that I would
27:47 change my life and start
27:56 looking at myself, look where you are.
27:59 The second time a friend of mine, I want you to
28:06 understand this because I'm going to jump way ahead,
28:08 we don't have a lot of time and there's a whole lot of
28:11 stuff in between there.
28:12 You see are thing about our lives is about decisions.
28:20 See we as Christians, everybody, not just Christians.
28:26 We as human beings only have two choices in life.
28:30 Two choices, that is you are either on Satan's side
28:33 or on Christ's, that's all you got, that's it.
28:37 All human beings only have two choices in life.
28:42 Now which choice are you going to make?
28:44 What is it, it's decision time, do you understand?
28:49 A friend of mine named Jerome, Jerome comes to me
28:56 and says hey Harris we can pull this burglary.
29:00 I'm like no man, I don't want to do that because if
29:07 we get caught I'm going back to the penitentiary.
29:11 No man, we ain't going to caught, we've got this in
29:14 the bag, no problem.
29:17 So I have to make a decision now, he is telling me
29:21 you know your wife is looking at you crazy and you
29:24 need to take care of some bills.
29:26 Cheri, I'm over here saying tell him no, no.
29:28 And I'm like no man because if we get caught I'm going
29:35 back to the penitentiary and they don't
29:37 give you probation, no.
29:39 That being no problem, it took me three days to make
29:46 a decision, you think I'm thinking about some bills to
29:49 pay, I'm thinking about all the cocaine I could have.
29:53 Let me tell you, we did it and I made the wrong decision
29:59 in my life, the wrong decision.
30:02 Let me tell you we did it and the police came down on us
30:09 like you see on TV.
30:11 I will never, never forget it.
30:16 He had me lying down in a mud puddle, Colorado mud.
30:23 He had his foot on the back of my neck.
30:26 He had a shotgun at my head and every time I try to rise
30:29 up to breathe he'd shoved me back down.
30:34 Changes, because I want to feel good because I wanted
30:39 to be one of the fella's.
30:42 I said to myself, well here you go again Harris.
30:47 Here you go again and it happened exactly like I said.
30:54 I went back to the penitentiary and they gave Jerome
30:58 probation, and I don't want you to forget that name.
31:04 I said to myself, look at you Harris, here I was 20 years
31:12 do you hear me, 20 years of my life wasted for what?
31:24 Year's that I could never get them back, they are gone.
31:27 But I can't worry about that right now because I have
31:31 Jesus in my life now and I have to move on with Jesus.
31:39 You know what I did? I went into the penitentiary,
31:44 and you know the penitentiary is nothing like
31:49 no city or county jail.
31:53 When you going to the penitentiary they give you a
31:54 number up here, you know I refused to remember my number.
32:01 Had it right here on the clothes, I don't know it.
32:04 When you go back a second time,
32:07 they give you the same number again, same number.
32:14 Cheri: so what they are saying now is you are a nobody.
32:20 You know when I went in, I got to say this, you see it's
32:30 like this, when I went in I had nothing.
32:36 I had one pair of underwear, they were mine,
32:42 that was mine, it belonged to me.
32:45 They were holey but they were mine.
32:47 Do you hear me, that was all I had.
32:50 Cheri: I hear you but that's more information than
32:53 I wanted I think.
32:54 They were holey but they were mine.
32:57 Well I got to thinking, while I'm in the penitentiary
33:02 now, I'm in the there and my family, everybody in my
33:08 family are Adventist, everybody.
33:12 Nobody, everybody, I didn't want my family to
33:19 know, but they knew.
33:21 Well I called my sister, stole from her.
33:27 I called my sister, now they are getting ready to release
33:30 me, and I called my sister because once they release you
33:37 they want to know where you're going to stay, who you're
33:39 going to stay with, how many times you're going to the
33:42 bathroom, they want to know everything about you.
33:46 Cheri: it's very true. Clifford: it's true.
33:48 They want to know, well I called my sister.
33:52 My niece answered the phone and the first thing, she went
33:57 and got her mother, and the first thing my sister said to
34:00 me, she picked up that phone and she said I love you,
34:05 I love you.
34:09 Well while I was in the penitentiary I went to the
34:18 prison library, the only reason I went to the prison library,
34:23 there was a woman in there and I want to see the woman.
34:29 She was ugly but she was a woman.
34:35 Wanted to see a woman.
34:37 Cheri: I love you, did I tell you I love you?
34:42 Well when I went in there I found this book in there
34:46 called the 'Desire of Ages'.
34:48 Well I knew what the book was, I knew was a book on the
34:52 life of Jesus Christ.
34:54 I check the book out and brought it back to my cell and
34:58 put it on my table.
34:59 Never opened the book.
35:01 When it was time to take it back, I took it back and
35:05 check it right back out and brought back to my cell,
35:08 put it on the table and never opened the book.
35:11 It's Holy Spirit working, not that He wasn't working
35:15 before, but I'm hearing now.
35:17 Cheri: open the book.
35:19 You know I ain't opening the book.
35:24 So I got to thinking, I wonder who is the Pastor at the
35:29 church right now, I wonder what is happening at prayer
35:37 meeting right now?
35:38 Wishing I was at prayer meeting, because if I was at
35:41 prayer meeting I could go home after prayer meeting.
35:44 Do you understand what I'm saying?
35:51 Well when it came time to be released, I made a decision
35:57 while I was there, while I was there.
35:59 You know what, when I get out of here I'm going to go
36:02 to church, I'm going to go to church.
36:09 They released me early one Sunday morning.
36:15 Jerome came and picked me up,
36:16 you remember Jerome don't you?
36:18 Cheri: he got probation. Cliff: yeah!
36:20 Cheri: and it was his idea. Cliff: yeah!
36:22 Cheri: I hate that.
36:27 I went to my sisters and I got a whole week, now I made
36:30 a decision now is going to go church right?
36:32 Talk back to me ye all, am I right?
36:34 Yeah, I made a decision, I'm going to go back to church.
36:38 While I have a whole week to go before it's time to go
36:44 to church, the first Sabbath morning my sister comes to
36:49 me, and she says, Clifford are you going to Sabbath school
36:54 this morning? No, not going to Parkhill.
36:58 Not going over there because those people are going to be
37:01 asking me where I have been and what I have been doing.
37:04 I do want to hear that.
37:06 She didn't give me no lecture, she didn't say nothing.
37:12 Her and her husband just went on out the door
37:15 and went on to Sabbath school.
37:17 Now I don't care what you think, I don't care what you
37:22 think, I don't care what you think and I don't care what
37:27 you think, I know He didn't send Gabriel.
37:32 I know Jesus came to me, it wasn't that I had to see Him,
37:40 or I heard His voice, it was from within.
37:47 It was from within, in Jesus said to me, hey boy,
37:55 you know I have watched over you, I have been there for
38:00 you, I have protected you, now it's decision time.
38:05 Now if you don't take it, you know that
38:09 you are going to die.
38:11 You know I was ready in five minutes to get Sabbath school,
38:14 and I have been going to Sabbath school ever since.
38:19 And I want to say to you out there, when the Holy Spirit
38:23 speaks to you brother or sister, you better take heed.
38:29 You see I know, I know that if I had not gone to Sabbath
38:34 school that Sabbath morning, I would be dead today.
38:38 I would be dead today, you see because I was the kind
38:42 of drug addict like this.
38:44 If you're spending $50, I'm spending a hundred and
38:47 I am not giving you any of my drugs.
38:49 You see drugs to me was a job, everyday, every day
38:56 just like you go to work everyday.
38:58 Just like you go to your job to the conference
39:00 office everyday, right?
39:02 Am I right? Guests: yes
39:03 and you sit down there and do those numbers and
39:06 whatever you do, that is everyday right?
39:09 You have to be there are certain time, right?
39:10 Well every day I'm stealing everyday.
39:14 Do you know I have been arrested in just the Denver area
39:20 over 40 times, that doesn't include all them other places.
39:27 But I'm going to tell you something, Jesus is good.
39:34 Do you hear me? Jesus is good.
39:38 There is a lot in the story that I have left out.
39:40 Cheri: do you know what I want to ask you a couple of
39:43 things, and if anybody else has any questions.
39:45 I want to ask you did you get the sense when God finally
39:49 said, you know what Cliff this is decision-making time.
39:52 When Jesus said you have to decide and you got up and got
39:55 dressed, did you get the sense of how much He loved you?
39:59 Even through all that junk?
40:02 It wasn't so much Jesus and I wanted to pray and study the
40:10 word, my whole thinking was go to church, just sit down
40:18 on the pews, sit down.
40:20 I didn't want to be there, but people all knew me from
40:24 the teenage days, they didn't want me they are either.
40:29 I'm serious, this one lady she knew me in the first
40:34 Sabbath I'm there she comes up to me and says,
40:36 what you doing here?
40:39 I looked at her and said I'm doing the same thing you're
40:42 doing here, you see she wanted to judge me.
40:47 But Jesus says, you do the loving and leave the
40:51 judging up to me.
40:53 It doesn't matter if I go there 17 times,
40:56 you except me every time I come.
40:59 Jesus will handle the judging of me.
41:01 Do you understand what I'm saying today?
41:03 Cheri: I understand that more than anything.
41:05 So that was my concept, every time the church door was
41:08 opened, prayer meeting, Sunday morning meeting any kind of
41:11 meeting I'm sitting down, I'm in here.
41:15 Boom, just be here.
41:17 So does anybody have any questions?
41:19 Before the question I want you to see how we met.
41:23 He came to church, he saw me on Sabbath, that Sabbath.
41:28 He proposed to me on Sunday.
41:30 Cheri: shut up there is no way.
41:33 I said yes and three months later we were married
41:37 so with all this rebellion, coming out of jail, and all
41:41 that stuff, you meet him, and what made you think that
41:45 he was ready for marriage?
41:47 Because I had spent a year with the Lord, without dating,
41:49 and I just said Lord, if you want me to have a husband
41:53 I'll have one, and when I saw Cliff, He said he's the one.
41:56 And my son introduced us in the lobby of
42:00 the Denver Parker church.
42:01 One thing, when I got out, I knew not to get involved
42:08 with a female, don't even go there.
42:11 I remember her girlfriend, but I never saw her at church.
42:15 Her girlfriend try to talk to me and I was, no, because
42:19 I have to go this direction, this is what I got to do.
42:23 And if I get involved with a female that would take me
42:27 off track. Cheri: even an ugly one.
42:29 Even an ugly one.
42:30 Freddie: but I did know him, he's saw me in the Lord
42:33 impressed him the same thing, that I was the one.
42:36 The Holy Spirit told each one that that's the one.
42:39 That's why, I've been in Adventist all my life and
42:42 never drank, smoked, I would ever and out the front door.
42:44 But I just had peace and knew that this was the guy.
42:47 Because all of a sudden I think that he comes into the church
42:50 and you are so beautiful and had this incredible
42:52 background and God just said, you know what you guys are
42:56 together and that's how I think He blesses us with that.
42:59 Fa'asoa, did you have a question?
43:00 Yeah, I'm sitting here listening to Cliff and I am
43:04 thinking, Cliff I am that 12-year-old boy looking you in
43:10 the eye and probably in tears saying, daddy this is what
43:16 got you in jail.
43:18 Because your dad was dealing drugs.
43:20 You remind me so much of my dad.
43:22 And you know I was sitting here thinking, I want to throw
43:26 this glass at you, I really do, but I'm not going to do
43:31 that because at two years of age I seen, when you asked,
43:36 when you asked about living with the drug addict.
43:39 I know firsthand what it's like to live with the drug
43:43 addict, and then I was thinking, Jesus has saved me from
43:47 my junk and Jesus is still working on my dad.
43:56 I shouldn't give up on my dad because Jesus doesn't give
43:59 up on us that easily, that quickly.
44:01 Cliff: Jesus doesn't give up on us, we give up on Jesus.
44:08 We push the Holy Spirit away, we have to choose,
44:13 He always has His hand out there for us.
44:17 All we have to do is grab it, it's simple.
44:21 We pray that your father will grab His hand one day.
44:24 Now one other thing I want to say to you, and put this in
44:29 the right perspective, my mother never saw the results of
44:34 her prayers, she never saw me get clean, she never did.
44:39 But she never stopped praying for me.
44:41 But my dad saw it, you see, and you understand?
44:46 My daddy told me one time when we were sitting at the
44:49 breakfast table, because I was the one out of all my brothers
44:52 and sisters, I was the one that took care of him.
44:56 And he said to me one time, Clifford who would have
44:59 thought that you would be the one to take care of me
45:03 after all the trouble you gave me?
45:05 Getting you out of jail and all that stuff and loads
45:09 of other stories, but he said your momma would've
45:12 been proud of you.
45:14 - My question Cliff, is what has become of your 12-year-old son?
45:19 I'm glad you asked that.
45:21 My children love me. Freddie: they never did drugs.
45:32 I have the best relationship with my children
45:35 and my grandchildren.
45:39 Let me tell you something about us males,
45:42 about us addicts.
45:44 We deal with this a lot in our program, because the men
45:48 they come in, this is one problem they will not let go of.
45:53 Do you know what that is? Their children.
45:57 Wife can go, momma can go, anybody else can go, but their
46:02 children, there is something important about their
46:07 children that they don't want to lose them, it's part of
46:11 them so they're always worried about their kids.
46:16 So that is something I treasure the most because my
46:21 daughter told me once, when she was married, that her
46:26 daughter was in the hospital.
46:30 And I was married to Freddie then, and my daughter said
46:33 to me, we was in the cafeteria of this hospital.
46:37 She said to me daddy I want you to go on with your life.
46:42 I don't want to get too close to you because I don't want
46:48 you to hurt me no more.
46:49 I didn't say nothing to her, I didn't give no, well I'm
46:55 going to do this and I'm going to do that.
46:58 None of that, I just lived the life, didn't do nothing
47:04 extra, I'd gave her no money and trying to convince her
47:10 no, all we have to do if you want to let somebody know
47:14 something, that's what witnessing is, live the life.
47:20 Because she saw the change in me, now it is daddy when
47:24 are you coming to get the kids, daddy when, you know.
47:27 Cheri: you can be trusted now.
47:29 You see now she can love me and that security is in there.
47:34 And that's what we addicts have to do, we have to get back
47:40 to having respect for yourself.
47:44 That is with God in the center of your life.
47:49 I still have drug addict behavior, look at me I'm kind of
47:53 fat, I've got it up there because of food.
47:58 To have to say to myself, Harris, because I weighed lot
48:03 more than now, I said you know what?
48:08 If you can conquer or the Lord can help you get off
48:13 those drugs can deal with food, you have became a food addict.
48:17 Cheri: because an addiction is an addiction, is an addiction.
48:22 But I want to say before we have other questions come up
48:25 before we leave my parents are addicts, Fa'asoa is that
48:29 every day I know and have so much faith that God is going
48:32 to do something in the family that I just keep them in
48:36 prayer, and is God walks me into recovery I pray like crazy
48:40 over them, but it's hard to forgive and pray,
48:44 and all that stuff.
48:46 If anybody out there has people around them that are
48:49 using, just pray like crazy.
48:51 Mark you had a question?
48:52 Yes I would like to go back to your statements about your
48:56 youth, you made a statement that was very interesting.
49:00 You were surrounded by family of Adventists, and yet none
49:03 of that did any good without a personal relationship
49:07 with Jesus, now my question is this.
49:08 I'm sure in our viewing audience we have many parents
49:12 who are trying to raise their children to be Christians.
49:16 They're conscientious, they are praying, can you give
49:23 them any advice about how to avoid the decisions that
49:28 you made, you said your parents were very conscientious.
49:33 Was there anything they could have done perhaps?
49:37 No, you see I get a lot of calls all the time from parents
49:44 parents or, this is a tactic that Satan gets on one of us.
49:50 If he can get one in the family, he has got everybody.
49:55 He's got the whole family, it's all in a combination of
50:01 things, because I had one lady one time tell me, I asked
50:06 her, she was telling me about her son.
50:08 She said she would give up her crown for her son.
50:11 Mark: yeah like Moses.
50:13 You don't give up your crown for your son, oh no, do you
50:17 see this girl right here, I love her to death.
50:19 But salvation is an individual matter.
50:25 And parents when their child goes astray, they get to
50:33 thinking, well what did I do wrong?
50:36 If I hadn't spanked them, maybe I didn't say the right word,
50:42 I should've done this or should of done that.
50:45 No, because you have done all you could do, and now it is
50:50 up to the child, you've raised them the best way you know
50:56 how, you tell me.
50:57 Not a one of us as parents, you have a young child and
51:01 you're going to make mistakes, we all make mistakes.
51:06 But still it is their choice.
51:10 I chose, nobody put a pistol up to my head and made me
51:16 do drugs, it was my choice.
51:19 Cheri: but you know I think a lot of times parents would
51:22 love the answer to that, Mark, is just saying know if you
51:25 do these five things your child is going to work out just
51:29 perfect, and I want that answer too because I have a 17
51:33 year old but there is no magic thing to do or not to.
51:37 It's just a matter of each person having their own
51:41 testimony to walk out.
51:42 You can train to people the same way and one will
51:46 go totally opposite, I never understand that but you
51:50 can train them exactly, but like you said it's
51:52 back to choices.
51:53 So Susan did you have a question?
51:55 Yes I'd like to ask the question, when was it that
51:58 you really knew you hit rock bottom, that God was knocking
52:02 on your heart, letting you know that this is enough?
52:08 I think it all began when I first was arrested for the
52:12 second burglary for the time I was going back to the
52:17 penitentiary for the second time.
52:19 When I really looked at it, and going through all this
52:25 stuff and going back into the penitentiary for
52:29 the second time, for what.
52:31 And when I went into the penitentiary for the second
52:34 time, guys were coming up to me saying hey Harris we've got
52:38 some weed over here, man let's get high.
52:40 I'm like no, no thank you, that's the reason
52:42 why I am in here now.
52:44 You see it was all about I know that I'm beginning to look
52:50 at 20 years of it, I knew there was something better than
52:55 where I was, to be in this situation I'm in.
53:00 It just wasn't good and I knew something better could go
53:04 on the rest of my life, better than beside
53:06 in and out of jail all my life, not having any
53:11 money, I used have a beard out to here, hair on my head,
53:14 and keep the same clothes on, can you hear me?
53:18 Same clothes on me for two to three weeks at a time.
53:22 Would not even change them, would not take them off.
53:26 Underwear crusted.
53:29 Cheri: that is more information than we need.
53:32 No you have to look at this, seriously you have to look
53:37 at this as sin, sin is ugly, I don't care what degree we
53:44 put it, it's ugly without Christ, sin and life is ugly.
53:50 Cheri: a you know I want to say time has gone by
53:53 us too fast in a wanted to say thanks so much for
53:56 being on the show.
53:57 I know that all this stuff that you dealt with God
54:01 has been faithful in your life and in your family
54:04 and in your Ministry.
54:06 So I'm praying and we have you back on so we can hear
54:08 all about the Ministry.
54:10 Clifford: oh sure I would be glad so much.
54:11 We'll be right back stay with us,
54:13 Celebrating Life In Recovery
54:21 Amazing stories of real people in real situations
54:24 discussing issues that really matter.
54:26 The complete first season of Celebrating Life In Recovery
54:29 is now available on DVD and can be ordered by calling 3ABN:
54:33 Or order online at:
54:36 Hosted by Cheri Peters, this season follows principles
54:39 from the book 'Steps to Christ'.
54:40 See for yourself, how God changed the lives of the
54:42 convicted, the accused, and victims of terrible crimes.
54:46 You won't want to miss a moment
54:47 of these powerful interviews.
54:56 Welcome back, in 'Steps To Christ' It says that your
54:59 mass your sin has deadened moral perceptions the wrongdoer
55:03 does not even discern the defects of his character or
55:06 realize the enormity of his evil he has committed unless
55:09 he yields to the convincing power of the Holy Spirit.
55:12 He remains in partial blindness to his sin.
55:15 His confessions are not sincere or earnest to every
55:19 acknowledgment of his guilt, he adds an apology or an excuse
55:23 of his course declaring that if they had not been for
55:26 certain circumstances it would've happened, if I didn't
55:28 have my parents weren't such a mess this
55:31 wouldn't have happened.
55:32 If I wasn't molested this would've happened.
55:33 If I didn't do drugs this would happen.
55:36 If I didn't have all this stuff thrown at me,
55:38 it wouldn't have happen.
55:39 You know what, I felt the same way, I used to say the same
55:42 thing and I read in the Bible which was hysterical to me.
55:45 I read in the Bible in Genesis where it says that Adam
55:48 and Eve starts out perfect.
55:51 God created them perfect in this garden
55:52 and it's so amazing.
55:53 He walks up to this tree and this snakes says, hey baby,
55:58 have an Apple and he convinces her you're going to be
56:02 wiser, your can be prettier, or whatever it is.
56:05 He seduced her and she takes the Apple.
56:06 Then she says her husband oh man, hey baby, have an Apple.
56:11 So all this stuff happens and then God comes and
56:15 immediately Eve says, you know what the snake made me do it.
56:18 He convinced me of all this stuff.
56:20 And Adam says the woman that You made for me, she made me
56:24 do it and it is like everybody blames everybody.
56:27 Finally it's like, you know what, God I think it's Your
56:30 fault and God says no, no, no.
56:33 You know what I want to help you, I want to help you.
56:36 I want to transform your life, I want to give you
56:39 forgiveness, all you have to do is tell Me hey I'm sorry.
56:44 I'm a mess I need your help.
56:46 I'm in jail again, I hit my wife again, I'm looking at
56:50 porn again, what ever it is.
56:52 I'm angry again, I'm critical again or whatever.
56:54 God says you know what, just tell me.
57:02 Okay, I did it, I need help, you need to be free from
57:06 this junk in the Bible says:
57:16 it is so amazing for me to think about a God who created
57:20 everything, a God that put everything into existence and
57:24 says you know what I want to heal you.
57:26 I theme text Isaiah 57: 18 it says I know all your stuff
57:30 I know all your junk and I want to heal you anyway.
57:33 So you know what I'll see you next time.
57:34 Next time we'll be covering some topics on steps to
57:37 recovery, but until then remember, always remember that
57:40 God is crazy about you, and me too.
57:43 Come back again!