Celebrating Life in Recovery


Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Fred and Brenda Stoeker


Series Code: CLR

Program Code: CLR000003

00:10 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery
00:12 I'm Cheri your host.
00:13 Today we will look at the key to a successful recovery,
00:16 repentance, being sick and tired of being sick and tired.
00:19 Or in layman's terms, being sorry enough to quit.
00:22 Come join us this is going to be incredible.
00:52 Repentance is not a word that we hear much of anymore.
00:55 When I think about how to explain that concept of
00:58 repentance to most addicts, I try to tell them taking
01:01 responsibility for your stuff.
01:03 For once looking at your life from the perspective that maybe
01:08 it is your stuff, maybe you have sinned, maybe it is your fault.
01:12 For many of us, we think that is ridiculous.
01:15 That is ridiculous, you don't know me, this is not my
01:18 fault, and they want to explain to you why it isn't.
01:21 Before we go there are want to just say thank you for
01:23 coming to the café today.
01:25 We have Fred and Brenda Stoeker on the show today.
01:27 It's going to be amazing, but I want to tell you some things
01:32 that I learned about folks in recovery and repentance.
01:35 When I first heard that maybe this was my fault,
01:39 I thought wait a minute, I was not wanted from the day
01:44 I came out of my mother's womb.
01:46 My parents were messed up, not only were my parents
01:49 messed up, my mom was molested most of her life.
01:52 She was given up by her mom who was an alcoholic when she
01:55 was five, given to an aunt and that aunt's husband
01:58 molested her from 5 to 12.
02:00 She was trashed before she even started her family and
02:04 bringing kids into the world and all those things.
02:07 So when I think about fault and think of all that I want
02:10 to jump up and say hey wait, wait I didn't do it.
02:13 It wasn't my fault.
02:14 The more I work with people, the more I hear their
02:17 stories, I understand that.
02:19 I hear that so loud that I'm not saying fault in the same
02:23 way as the world says fault.
02:25 The Bible says, I really believe this, as Christ brought
02:28 me into place where it's says Cheri, when you walk every
02:32 day, the things that you choose today will help you to
02:36 either heal or stay in your stuff.
02:38 So repentance is understanding my stuff enough to where
02:43 I can step out of that.
02:45 I want to tell you a story about one of the guys I work
02:48 with, he came into the Ministry Center and God has given us an
02:52 international Ministry and I love it.
02:54 It's called True Step Ministries and I have this ranch
02:57 where we work with the kids of prisoners.
03:00 So we bringing kids that the parents are in prison and
03:03 try to teach them some normal stuff.
03:05 How to ride horses, do you know why we do that?
03:07 Is that we want them to learn how to take instructions.
03:11 How to trust something, how to respond to people.
03:14 So the horses are something that God blessed us with,
03:17 but there's all kinds of dynamics that happen with that.
03:19 So we have this ranch, and one day I'm standing at the
03:22 Ministry Center and I am doing some things.
03:24 This guy walks in and I thought he looked like a serial
03:27 killer, he just looked terrible.
03:31 I turned around I felt my pulse quicken.
03:35 I was homeless for 10 years, I am a street kid and not
03:40 much scares me, right!
03:42 I just want to tell you, I am not exaggerating, I don't get
03:46 scared too easy, but I turned around and this guy
03:48 had 15 facial piercings.
03:51 So Curly, just on his face, we're not going to his ears yet.
03:58 He had 15 facial piercings and they were sticking out
04:01 everywhere, he had them in his tongue, in his lip,
04:04 in his eyebrow and metal going straight through his face.
04:07 It was just crazy.
04:09 Then he had 8 or 9 earrings in each ear, huge earrings
04:12 those big gauged earrings.
04:13 He had a tattoo of a dragon starting from his head that
04:16 look like the fingernails of the Dragon were opening up
04:19 his skull and he had that all over his body.
04:23 And he came in and said someone said you could help me.
04:26 I'm like yeah.
04:29 But I don't want any of that Jesus stuff.
04:32 And I want to say that I'm being really nice because he
04:36 did not say it like that, you can use your imagination
04:39 on that, but he did not say it like that.
04:42 He was like right in my face, and I thought somebody
04:45 just as a joke at my house and because I'm a Jesus freak.
04:49 I love God more than I love anything else.
04:52 I know I have gotten life back, I have gotten hope.
04:57 Everything in me says if we could just get a sense of
05:01 who God really is, the world would be a better place.
05:04 There is a guy here saying that I want recovery but
05:07 I don't want God
05:08 I'm thinking how funny, who sent you here?
05:10 He tells me this story, and I have to tell you the story
05:12 because it cracks me up.
05:14 So he goes to Starbucks every single day, every single day
05:17 and there is this little girl that came in with her family
05:19 and she saw him sitting in Starbucks.
05:21 And she walked by and it was early in the morning.
05:25 They were going to get coffee and drop her off at preschool.
05:28 She walks in and her name is Rebecca, she is almost 5.
05:33 She walks in and she sees Jim, piercings, tattoos,
05:38 and she says mom, look at that guy.
05:42 And her mom was so embarrassed, oh hon, you don't do that.
05:47 You just don't point at people and say look at that guy.
05:51 You have to be polite especially when they look like serial
05:55 killers, don't do that.
05:57 So after they got out of Starbucks, her mom gave her the
06:01 lecture of what's polite and what's not polite.
06:05 But she's like mom, did you see him, he had things stuck
06:10 in his face, did you see the his head?
06:13 Yes, yes, yes and trying to explain to Rebecca why
06:18 people do that was really tough.
06:20 Her mom hadn't been exposed to a lot of that so she didn't
06:23 have a lot of good answers other than you don't point at
06:26 people, and you don't yell look at that guy across the room.
06:30 So the next time they came in her mom was actually
06:33 hoping that Jim wasn't there.
06:35 We call him tattooed Jim now, and Jim was there.
06:38 So Rebecca walks in and she knows she's going to get in
06:42 trouble if she looks at him.
06:43 So she wants to look to see if he is in the room.
06:46 But she also doesn't want to get in trouble,
06:49 so she walks in and she has gone her head down.
06:51 All of a sudden she's like, ahhh mom, he's there again.
06:56 And her mom said, oh stop, you cannot do that and her mom is
07:03 so embarrassed and they have to go through this whole
07:06 thing again outside of Starbucks I shouldn't say Starbucks.
07:10 Well you know coffee shop in America, so anyhow they get
07:13 through this whole thing again and she lectures her and
07:17 the next time they come in she so sure that she is not
07:20 going to look at this man.
07:22 She has got her head in her hands holding herself down.
07:25 And she's like I'm not going to look, I'm not going to
07:28 look, I'm not going to look, and all of a sudden she's
07:31 she doesn't yell she just waves to him.
07:37 And he waves back.
07:39 Her moms orders her coffee and her mom's girlfriend comes
07:42 in, and as her girlfriend comes in and they start talking.
07:46 Rebecca manipulates a little bit to get her hand free.
07:50 And she walks over to Jim and grabs his head
07:56 and said, did that hurt?
07:58 Let me count how many things you have on your face,
08:02 1, 2, 3, and she grabs his ear, 1, 2, 3, 4.
08:07 And she's doing all this counting, she's looking at his
08:10 tattoos, in she's looking on the back of his head and he has
08:13 this evil looking eye.
08:15 And she's like, can you see out of that?
08:17 She was wanting to know everything, did that hurt?
08:21 He said the one on the back of my head, that hurt bad.
08:24 She's talking on all of a sudden she realizes that my
08:28 mom is probably looking for me, and at the same time her
08:31 mom realizes she doesn't have a hand to Rebecca anymore.
08:35 She is panicked and she looks up at tattoo Jim and
08:41 Rebecca, her little beautiful child has got his head in
08:46 her hands and she panic's.
08:48 She says what do I do, do I run across the room and
08:51 grab my child and throw ourselves on the ground and say
08:54 God thank you so much he didn't kill her, or kidnap her,
08:58 or what ever, do I run outside, do I do whatever?
09:01 She said all of a sudden the Holy Spirit just relaxed her.
09:04 He said just wait it's okay.
09:07 So she watched what was happening and then Rebecca came
09:10 over and said mom this is tattoo Jim.
09:12 Jim this is mom.
09:13 They started having a relationship, every time
09:17 they saw each other, after that they would say Hi to each other.
09:19 It was really cool and she would leave and one day she came
09:24 in and her mom said you know tell Jim that you are going
09:28 home to your grandmother's for Christmas and you will
09:31 see him in two weeks.
09:33 She started crying, we can't do that.
09:37 Why not you love your grandmother, why not what's up?
09:41 We can't do that because who's going to spend
09:44 Christmas with Jim?
09:46 Her mom said Jim's family.
09:49 Then she said, loud in the middle of a coffee shop,
09:53 Jim doesn't have any family I don't think.
09:55 She cried, and finally they left and she said okay we
09:59 can go if we get Jim a present.
10:01 And they go to the store and get Jim a present and she
10:04 wrapped it, she doesn't know how to wrap she is just a little
10:06 kid and she crumpled some paper around and put tape
10:09 around that she runs in and runs up to Jim and says,
10:12 Jim I got you a present.
10:15 Jim said I started tearing up because not many people
10:18 have ever gotten me a present, especially lately.
10:20 I'm angry and I don't really let people in with those things.
10:23 This little girl is adorable and she handed the present
10:27 and he just took it and he held it.
10:30 She said no open it, open it.
10:32 He's saying no you should've done this.
10:34 She's like, open it, come on open it, she is so excited.
10:38 He opens it, and Jim likes to draw and it was brand-new
10:42 mechanical pencil. Brand-new, and he teared up.
10:46 He said I haven't teared up for ever, for ever.
10:50 As he teared up, he looked at her and he said the only
10:54 thing I could think of, I know her Rebecca,
10:56 she goes to my church,
10:57 She said the only thing I could think of is to ask him
11:00 if he knew who Jesus was?
11:02 So she said Jim, do you know who Jesus is?
11:06 He said if it would have been anyone else I would have
11:09 grabbed them by the face and slammed their face into
11:13 a brick wall, how dare anybody talk to me about God.
11:16 What has God done for me in my life.
11:18 He said there was so much rage and anger that welled up
11:21 in him that he could even stand it and this little girl
11:24 standing there in front of him and he said I just wanted
11:27 to bash her face in, but I realized I liked her and
11:31 I know she meant no harm.
11:33 And he said no I don't know who Jesus is.
11:35 Awh you got to meet Jesus!
11:37 She left and went to grandma's house.
11:39 She comes back, a couple weeks have passed, and she runs
11:43 and is hoping Jim is there.
11:44 He is there, hey Jim how was Christmas?
11:48 How is everything, you know what I thought about while
11:50 I was gone, I thought about my friend.
11:54 I have a friend named Cheri and she likes people like you.
11:58 So that is how he got sent to my house, she just sent him
12:03 over, and God told me, you know what, if I wasn't working
12:07 with him he would be sitting in front of you.
12:09 He wouldn't be here.
12:11 So I thought how fun is that and we took him on a mission
12:14 trip, a mission trip with us.
12:17 The next day I said, Jim do you want to go on a trip with us?
12:19 He said yeah, what kind of trip is it he said?
12:21 Well we go into a town and there's a lot of things we do
12:25 when we do Ministry and go into a town, we go to a legislative
12:28 group and talk to them, we talk to junior high schools.
12:31 High schools, we talk to the jails, and talk to juvenile
12:33 hall, and we end it by talking to the churches.
12:36 What churches I don't even care, you want us to speak call us up.
12:41 So that is our week laid out.
12:44 He said to me, I'll talk to that legislative group,
12:48 I'll talk to schools, and I want to go to juvenile hall
12:51 but I'm not talking to any crazy church.
12:53 I'm thinking what my going to do with this guy?
12:57 And he really is obnoxious and so I said, you know what
13:00 Jim if we work together, one thing you have to know is that
13:03 I am the boss, and you'll talk where ever I tell you to talk.
13:06 I thought he is either going to kill me, or he is going
13:09 to hear that, and he said okay but I won't lie to them.
13:13 I said no one not asking you to lie to anybody, but if
13:15 we are at a church gig, just tell them why you want to do
13:18 recovery, why is it you want to stop drugs?
13:20 Just tell them that, you don't have to pretend you
13:22 believe in God or any of that.
13:24 I have to tell you that within days he totally gives
13:28 his life to Christ, and I wish I could you the whole story
13:31 because it was so amazing.
13:33 But within days he is weeping, saying you know what?
13:36 I want to meet God, I don't want to be like this.
13:40 I am so full of anger, and then every time I turned around,
13:43 every single time I turned around he was crying.
13:46 I'm not very nice because I would say Jim, we have to go.
13:49 Was I too harsh, your not going to start crying are you?
13:54 He would say Cheri, shut up, just shut up.
13:57 It was so funny, but he cried about everything.
14:00 I asked him, why are you crying? He said I never cry what's this!
14:05 He said all of a sudden he would think about when he was
14:09 younger, he got beat by his father horribly, horribly.
14:13 His mother was beaten, and he was beaten and his dad was
14:16 so drunk most the time that Jim at 6, 7, 8 years old would
14:20 have to drive home for his dad.
14:22 He would stand him on the seat of the car with the
14:26 steering wheel in his hands.
14:27 He couldn't reach the pedals but his dad drunk would
14:29 press on the gas and you just keep the car or
14:34 truck in the road.
14:35 He would get to 60, 70, 80 miles an hour just to see
14:38 how much guts Jim had, and he said I was petrified all
14:42 the time, all the time.
14:43 He said when I grow up I will never be like my dad,
14:45 but he was exactly like his dad when he grew up.
14:48 He beat his wife, beat his kids and would get so drunk
14:51 and so high that he would come home to his babies.
14:54 I know Curly you have a three-week-old baby, his babies
14:58 would be crying, crying, wanted to be fed or changed.
15:01 He said, don't you know I have to get some sleep,
15:04 I want you to shut up and he was screaming at them.
15:07 Of course they cried more, he said the only way I could
15:10 shut them up is I would put a pillow over their face
15:13 until day passed out and then I would get some sleep.
15:16 He said in his relationship with Christ he would see that.
15:22 He would hear God say and I forgive you.
15:26 I forgive you, and he would weep, he wept.
15:30 I thought how amazing, repentance is to see it,
15:34 just to see it, and not to see it and do anything yet.
15:37 It's not about doing anything, repentance doesn't mean
15:40 that I see it and change every single thing and I behave
15:44 the rest of my life.
15:45 You know what? Jim still doesn't know how to behave.
15:47 He saw it and he asked God for His blood, Jesus cover me,
15:52 cover me I want to be saved.
15:54 So he sees it, and what is really amazing to me is that
15:57 I even sent him, he wanted to be baptized so I sent him
16:00 over to my pastor's house.
16:02 He came home and he said you know what Cheri?
16:04 He came to the Ministry Center, you're lucky I didn't
16:07 just take that guy and bash his face, he is a nut.
16:11 He is a nut and I know that if you truly knew what that
16:14 guy believed, you would not have him as your pastor, He is crazy.
16:19 I thought I love my pastor, what is he talking about.
16:23 I said Jim what did he say to you, sit down and relax.
16:26 He couldn't hardly relax, he was just screaming.
16:28 He said do you know the dude I accepted into my life, Jesus.
16:32 Yeah I know that dude.
16:34 He said that dude is three dudes in one, how crazy is that?
16:40 I thought how funny is that?
16:42 God in repentance in our first walk He is not
16:45 asking us for big things.
16:46 He's saying just see who you are and give it to Me.
16:49 Acknowledge that maybe it is your fault.
16:52 Turn to Me and I will so walk you into the rest of your life.
16:58 So we are going to come back right after the break.
17:00 We are going to come back and I'm going to introduce you
17:02 to Fred and Brenda Stoeker and you are going to be
17:05 blessed, absolutely blessed because some of us really
17:08 need to know, okay I understand.
17:11 I understand repentance, I understand now being sorry
17:14 enough to quit, but were now what, I don't know what to do.
17:17 So stay with us, we'll be right back!
17:25 We want to introduce you to a beautiful book called
17:28 'Steps to Christ', each program in this series is
17:31 based on a different chapter showing you how to become
17:34 a Christian and gain victory over your addictions.
17:37 'Steps to Christ' is our gift to you, free of charge.
17:40 Just call us at:
17:44 During regular business hours or write to:
18:08 Welcome back, I love this segment where I get to
18:12 introduce the guests.
18:13 Fred and Brenda Stoeker you have been on the show before
18:15 and we were blessed by your testimony.
18:18 Before we start, I want to ask the same thing that I asked
18:22 before, Fred can you tell us a little bit, in a nutshell,
18:27 your testimony so then I want to ask Brenda,
18:29 how she dealt with all that.
18:31 In college I just got hooked on pornography pretty deeply.
18:35 Then I was chasing women and had four girlfriends and I
18:40 was sleeping with three of them.
18:41 I was essentially engaged to be married to two.
18:43 So all I would say is that I was way off the path and it
18:47 was at that point that the Lord came into my life, caught
18:51 my attention and made me realize that there were some
18:55 things about me that needed to change.
18:57 You know even on the last show we did with you, when you
19:00 talked about, there was sexual addiction and pornography
19:04 in your family that came down generations.
19:06 I thought that was interesting is that generational
19:10 stuff was passed down.
19:11 Yeah that is very common, if you look at the average age
19:15 of when a young man sees his first pornography at 11.
19:19 That means half of young men see it before that.
19:21 I saw my first pornography, it was my dad's, he had it
19:24 underneath his bed, and I saw it at the age of 6 in
19:26 first grade so that's how things pass down.
19:30 People aren't careful, a young man sees it and gets his
19:34 heart captured, and then he starts the spiral just as his
19:38 father, and just like his grandfather.
19:40 Cheri: and the devil just laughs.
19:42 Fred: oh yes he laughs pretty hard I'm sure, but God gets
19:45 the last laugh as we turn to Him.
19:46 Cheri: I like that, okay so when Fred was dealing with
19:51 all the different things, pornography, his struggle,
19:55 his meeting Christ, and then he meets you, but you don't have
19:59 the same kind of background at all.
20:00 Brenda: that's right, right, our backgrounds were as
20:03 different as night and day.
20:04 I came for a very strong Christian home background.
20:07 A wonderful family and his was considerably
20:12 different, and tougher.
20:13 Fred: as a matter of fact, when I came into her family,
20:15 it was one of those almost spacey kind of thing.
20:20 I saw this family, first of all, all the sisters and
20:24 brothers, mom and dad, uncle and aunt's all lived within
20:28 2 miles of each other.
20:30 So not only was she growing up with her brothers,
20:33 she was growing up of all her cousins and they were all
20:34 as close as brothers and sisters.
20:36 When I went in there and I saw this family, I was shocked.
20:40 I remember saying to myself, wow, I didn't know
20:43 anything like this existed because they didn't do
20:46 what my family did.
20:48 My family spent a lot of time yelling at each other.
20:50 The louder you were the more right you were, that sort
20:53 of thing and when I got into this home it was peaceful
20:56 and people loved each other, people were kind to each
20:59 other, there was not the storminess and the pain.
21:01 I didn't know how to deal with it at first, all I did know
21:04 was that I wanted to be part of this, I want to graft into this,
21:08 I want to be like this someday.
21:10 Cheri: you had met God so you already had a sense of what that
21:14 felt like with the Holy Spirit, anyway stepping into the family.
21:17 But I had never seen it played out in real life.
21:22 It's not like I grew up getting beat, I didn't get sexually
21:26 abused, but there was a lot of verbal abuse
21:29 and a lot of pressure.
21:31 I grew up not feeling really loved by my father.
21:34 He thought I was a sissy basically and he thought
21:38 I was never going to be the man he was.
21:39 He was a national wrestling champion and honestly,
21:42 I guess I never was the man he was in the area of
21:45 wrestling, but it made very difficult in growing up.
21:48 I never felt accepted and when I saw her home I
21:52 really did feel excepted.
21:53 As a matter of fact probably the key moment, in my life,
21:56 in her family, was one I asked her dad for her hand
22:00 in marriage and he was on his deathbed.
22:02 He was destined to die a few months before we actually
22:06 got married, but he knew and I knew that whatever promises
22:10 I made that day he wouldn't be around make me keep them
22:13 or hold me to them.
22:14 He said something to me that no man had ever said.
22:17 He said yes you look like the kind of man that will keep
22:24 his promises, from the moment he said that, I said okay
22:28 maybe I haven't kept promises in the past, but I will keep
22:32 this one because when I get to heaven someday and follow
22:35 him there, I am not going to have turn my eyes away
22:39 when I look him in the face.
22:40 I'm going to be able to look at Frank, and say Frank
22:43 I did what I said I'd do and he's going to grin and
22:45 pat me on the back.
22:46 You see I want that, I want to be the kind of man that
22:49 keeps his promises.
22:51 That kind of trust, and that kind of heart was something
22:55 I had never experienced in a family before.
22:58 I have spent all the years since then, not only trying
23:01 to please God, but making sure I was keeping my promises
23:05 to her dad because I owe him a lot.
23:07 He raised a great daughter and I had made a promise.
23:10 That is absolutely powerful when I think about how our
23:14 words mean something, his words changed things for you.
23:18 Yes they did change things, totally.
23:21 It was wonderful that is all I can say.
23:24 You know Brenda, when all this started coming out as far
23:28 as Fred's addictions, his difficulty with porn and his
23:31 history of all that, how did that come out, and what did
23:35 you think, what did you do?
23:36 As I said earlier, I was very, very, very naive about men
23:40 and sexuality at how different they are from we women.
23:44 I remember him explaining some things to me and honestly
23:48 I thought he was making it up
23:50 I laughed, and I said you have to be making this up,
23:53 it's just too weird. Cheri: because he came and told you.
23:55 He told me about the struggles that he had been having.
23:57 He was explaining to me some of the ways the men are
24:00 different from women and how they can just look at
24:03 something and have sexual gratification just through
24:06 looking, you don't have to have any intimacy from it.
24:09 I honestly with, different things he'd tell me, think that
24:13 you men are all in a conspiracy, probably just all agreed
24:17 this can't possibly be true.
24:19 It was so different from what I understood.
24:21 I had to learn quite a lot on the differences between
24:26 men and women, this type of betrayal for women
24:30 is extremely painful.
24:32 It would be like, although he did not have an affair, it still
24:36 feels the same to women because we are so relational.
24:39 Men are different, they can be involved in pornography
24:42 or other things without necessarily affecting the love
24:45 they have for their wives.
24:46 Cheri: in their mind they're not cheating on you.
24:49 Brenda: right, right, we one time met a man and was
24:52 talking to him, I thought this illustrates it.
24:55 He was telling us about a friend of his that had been
24:57 involved in pornography and his wife was going to leave
25:00 him, he said what was the matter, all he was doing was
25:02 looking at porn, what was the big deal?
25:04 I could just see, this was it, we are so far apart in
25:07 understanding of the differences.
25:11 For women to be able to heal and recover from something
25:14 like this, we have to learn how men are wired.
25:17 How they are different from us.
25:18 Many times this behavior is caused by problems in the past.
25:23 Wounds may be from a father that didn't accept them.
25:27 Their looking for intimacy some where else and this comes in
25:29 as a false type of intimacy.
25:31 When you even say to him, when Fred said earlier that
25:35 he was not sexually abused, there was a part of me
25:39 that wanted to say, that is not true because at 6 years
25:42 old, when you opened up that magazine, that was so
25:45 abusive that it changed the everyday walk of his life
25:48 for years after that.
25:49 And I think we think of sexual abuse as being molested,
25:53 touched or whatever, not as leaving a magazine somewhere
25:56 were child can see it.
25:57 The abuse was there as a child.
25:59 Brenda: I think sometimes we women are not as well
26:02 educated and we may tend to think that they have a big
26:04 choice in this, and they are choosing to do this,
26:07 without realizing that there is an addictive tendency here
26:10 It's not necessarily about me, it may be something
26:13 he was addicted into long before I ever came along,
26:16 which is what I found out.
26:17 Cheri: so you never, you didn't go, and I'm thinking
26:21 into feeling depressed, you didn't think is the marriage
26:24 going to survive or not, none of that came up for you?
26:27 Well in my case no, because when I found out about it,
26:31 he was already well working through it.
26:33 Again I was so naive that I didn't really think
26:38 onto the next step.
26:39 Fred: it was really a naive situation for her
26:42 because she had no idea how my sexual sin was
26:45 affecting our relationship.
26:48 I had mentioned in the last program about the dreams
26:51 and being chased by Satan a lot, she had no idea how
26:54 that related to this.
26:56 She had no idea it was affecting our relationship, or that it
27:00 would have some impact on our, son, so since she didn't know
27:05 that, in some ways I did get a pass on it because she never
27:09 really panicked that much.
27:11 Now it also helped that I had already started fighting the
27:14 battle, it's one thing.
27:15 Cheri: how did you come out of that, because it don't
27:17 think we ever talked about that,
27:18 how did you come out of that, and decide to just do it?
27:21 I'm going to change?
27:23 We talked a little bit about the Maury Hill moment where I was
27:26 driving the road and slammed my fist into the steering
27:29 wheel, I'm just done with this.
27:30 Well in the aftermath of that then the Lord began to
27:33 take things I had learned years ago in school and began
27:37 to show me, look what you know about male sexuality,
27:40 remember what you learned at Stanford, this applies to the
27:45 covenant of the eyes.
27:46 One of the things I learned at Stanford for instance,
27:49 even as far back as the 50s, we knew that when men
27:51 would look at pornography they could draw direct
27:54 sexual gratification into their brains.
27:56 What the Lord was telling me, this is why you need a
27:59 covenant with your eyes, because if you are going to be
28:02 looking at the sensual things in your environment,
28:04 that is a lot like sex itself.
28:08 It's pouring it into the brain the same things that
28:11 are going on chemically in your brain when we look at
28:14 something, same things that are going on when we are
28:17 in bed with a wife.
28:18 So over time I got to know the names of the chemicals
28:23 involved, the adrenaline, and the dopamine and all the
28:28 other drugs that hit the pleasure centers when
28:29 we are looking and lusting.
28:31 Cheri: a lot of people don't know that, if you actually
28:34 did a Pet Scan, your brain is lit up.
28:36 Fred: it's lit up in a big way, and the other thing
28:39 a lot of people don't know, in fact this is
28:40 just a recent discovery.
28:42 Is that the male part of the lymphatic center is tied in with
28:46 sexual pleasure, it's actually twice as large in men
28:49 as it is in women.
28:50 One thing we know that it tells us that men and women
28:53 are going to be different because there is far more part
28:56 of the brain involved with it.
28:58 The main issued to me when I think about that is,
29:01 that is probably the reason we are more visual and why
29:05 there is a difference between us by nature.
29:07 When it came back to the very beginning, all I knew is
29:10 that the Lord was telling me look, if you want to win
29:13 this battle, a covenant has to be in place where you
29:16 are not looking at the girl in the string bikini,
29:18 you are not looking at the receptionist when
29:21 she bends over at the office.
29:23 You need to begin to live the way I tell you to live
29:26 and that is to keep your eyes straight ahead where
29:29 they are supposed to be.
29:30 Cheri: and you know what I like because I have heard you
29:33 say this before is that if I, and you guys always talk
29:36 about men in their addictions, women have some stuff so.
29:39 As you look at something and it starts to draw you,
29:43 pull your eyes away from that.
29:46 We call that in the book, bouncing the eyes, it's in the
29:48 book, 'Every Man's Battle' my first book.
29:50 It's natural for a man's eyes to turn and look towards
29:54 the sensual woman walking into the room.
29:57 That is the natural thing.
29:58 I remember my son, a few years ago, went to a mall with
30:01 Brenda and his sisters.
30:04 Brenda: he was nine or 10.
30:06 Fred: I think he was 11 at the time, as I recall anyway.
30:09 Anyway, one thing we know it was before puberty and he
30:13 would have known a girl from a bale of hay.
30:14 I mean he just wasn't, but when they came back from the
30:19 mall an interesting thing happened.
30:21 He gave Brenda a hug and then he asked her a question.
30:24 He said, mom how do you get pictures of women in their
30:28 underwear out of your brain?
30:30 Brenda: I said go ask your dad.
30:32 Everyone's laughing!
30:34 I back-peddled fast.
30:36 Before she sent him down, she said what kinds of pictures
30:40 are you talking about?
30:41 He said well we were walking down the mall today and we
30:45 went by the secret store, which is that's the Victoria's
30:49 Secret lingerie store.
30:50 He said I looked into the window and from the moment
30:52 I looked into the window I have not been able to get
30:55 those pictures out of my mind all day.
30:57 And if you look at how the male brain is wired,
30:59 and actually the female brain can be trained this way.
31:03 There is a chemical release and Mary Anne Layden,
31:07 who is one of the foremost psychiatrist, psychologist
31:11 that are studying male sexuality in America.
31:13 She is from the University of Pennsylvania.
31:15 She made this statement recently that once that happens
31:19 in the chemicals hit the brain it locks that image into the
31:22 brain for ever, and that was Michael's first experience
31:26 of that maleness of his sexuality.
31:29 We need to understand that that is a very real issue.
31:32 One of the things that Brenda is saying, when women
31:34 to learn these things is that you can imagine that has a
31:38 big impact, if you have a young man that is growing up.
31:42 He was 11 at the time and now he is 15, he's been through
31:45 puberty, if there was no one around teaching him what to
31:48 do, no one around to ask that question, what's going to
31:52 happen to that young man in a sensual culture like ours?
31:54 It's almost guaranteed he is going to get hooked because
31:57 there is so much sexuality around.
31:59 What I say is not only do the women need to learn these
32:02 differences, but even the church needs to begin speaking
32:06 about this more because otherwise a young Christian man,
32:10 or any kind of man Christian, Jewish, any kind of man is
32:15 going to fall off that cliff into the pit before he even
32:19 knows what he is doing.
32:21 I would like your guys because you have spent so much
32:24 time in your healing, first of all talk about,
32:28 the show is about repentance and taking responsibility
32:31 for yourself and bringing this to Christ.
32:34 So talk a little bit about repentance and then talk about
32:37 what are some things you learned and maybe even that you
32:40 put in your book, Brenda, 'Every Heart Restored',
32:43 as far as what women can do and learn when you talk about
32:47 whether sex chillers.
32:50 I want to hear about all the because
32:52 I don't know anything.
32:54 Brenda: I would say just quickly and then give it back to
32:57 you here, that one of the main things that I have learned
33:01 about women being able to be restored and set free in
33:04 a problem like this, is number one what we have been
33:07 talking about, educate yourself on the differences
33:10 because then you can maybe begin to have mercy and
33:13 understanding that this is not just simply a deliberate
33:16 choice, there is addiction here.
33:18 The other thing is the spiritual aspect of it.
33:21 There has to be more transformation in your heart
33:25 because your emotions and self-esteem are shattered
33:29 with something like this.
33:31 You have to be able to rebuild yourself in a healthy way,
33:35 as God sees you, so often we feel worthless after this
33:40 type of thing and what I found was really good.
33:44 Was to begin to pour Scripture into my life.
33:47 I would take Psalms 139 and begin to just read that
33:52 a couple of times a day, pick it apart and see what it means to
33:55 me in a drastic, painful, hard time that Scripture talks
33:59 all the way through about how well God knows you.
34:01 How you are never out of His sight.
34:03 There is no darkness that is dark to Him.
34:05 You talk about darkness, you know that it's a dark place.
34:11 Cheri: it's interesting to me when you are in this spot
34:15 Scripture becomes more real.
34:17 Brenda: you must have it, it's the only thing
34:19 because it transforms your mind, it transforms
34:22 how you feel about yourself, and it transforms
34:24 how you relate to your husband.
34:26 Verses like Hebrews 12:7 through 11, James 1:2-4
34:31 2 Corinthians 12:9, they talk about enduring hardship
34:34 as disciplined, and the Lord is treating you to hope
34:38 that in hard times the Lord is still there.
34:40 He can use this time, if you are not transforming your
34:43 mind and having Scripture steadying you all day long,
34:46 you're going to fly off the handle and be so upset that
34:49 you can't even respond very well.
34:51 It strengthens you, the word, the Holy Spirit strengthens
34:56 and allows me to be able to look at him with God's motives
35:00 in mind more than my own.
35:02 Cheri: then say and I'm not going to let you do this,
35:05 I'm not going to be throwing anything on you right now,
35:09 I'm actually going to be your wife.
35:10 Fred: there's a couple things I would say to about the
35:14 word, a lot times we look at the word and we say okay,
35:17 this is how we are supposed to act so I'm going to conform
35:21 to the word and live according to what it says.
35:23 But the word also does something that transforms us,
35:27 it is the power of the word that does that.
35:29 Transformation is better than conforming because what it
35:32 does is it comes into your life and gives you the mind of
35:35 Christ so that you start thinking about your sexuality,
35:38 like Christ thought about His for instance, when He was
35:42 on earth, and even the temptations that are involved,
35:46 for instance for me start to dissipate.
35:48 A lot of people say you always so have these temptations
35:52 as long as you are alive because you're a guy.
35:54 Well I have not found that to be so.
35:55 What I have found is that as the word comes into my life
35:59 and transforms me, I begin to see my sexuality,
36:05 it is actually in its proper place and I own my sexuality
36:09 rather than it owning me.
36:11 That is a dramatic difference but that only happens
36:13 through that transformation.
36:14 The other thing I would say is that, when Brenda was
36:17 going through the death of her mother a while back,
36:19 we talked a lot about how pain is pain, whether it's from
36:23 the grief of that death, or grief from sexual sin
36:26 throughout the marriage, it's really a mess.
36:29 One of the things I saw in her was the discipline she had,
36:33 she would put these Scriptures on Post-it notes and she would
36:36 actually carry those Scriptures with her during the day
36:39 where if she is in her car it would be on her steering
36:41 wheel, she was in the kitchen it would be on the window
36:43 in front of her so that she would be reading it all day
36:45 long and she would not forget what she read this morning
36:47 by two this afternoon.
36:49 Cheri: you know I work with this guy that was lost in
36:53 pornography, just lost.
36:54 He said I prayed and in my prayer God said, memorize
36:58 some Scripture and it will wash your mind as if
37:03 you were washing out a garment.
37:05 He said I started to and even the visual images that
37:08 have plagued him most of his life, started to leave.
37:12 Fred: I have experienced the same thing and people will
37:15 say, can you remember those images?
37:18 Well there are some images I can still remember,
37:21 they were very vivid back then and if I tell myself to,
37:24 I can make myself pull them up.
37:26 But I choose not to, I don't have those things
37:31 washing up all the time.
37:33 You see if those images are in there and washing up all
37:36 the time, they can serve the same purpose as actually
37:38 looking at a new magazine.
37:40 You can't have that, and God does not want that, and He
37:42 will want to wash that clean.
37:44 Cheri: what is amazing to me is that a lot people do not
37:46 understand the process of addiction.
37:47 We end up in our various addictions, we end up getting so
37:52 caught up with an object, or an event, that is not real
37:56 and we are looking to meet intimacy, or spiritual needs
37:59 with this object, or event, with porn or whatever.
38:02 God is saying let me teach you to do that in a real sense
38:06 and you will be blessed, I mean you will be blessed.
38:09 I will teach you how to laugh with a woman that you love
38:13 and have all those connections within you and be blessed.
38:16 You will be able to trust that God really does know what He is
38:19 doing, and I actually will be better off as He walks
38:22 me into recovery.
38:24 You said that earlier in the sense that this whole
38:28 recovery process is tied that way, the intimacy thing
38:32 is very interesting to me.
38:34 You were talking about drug addictions as well as I am
38:37 talking about sexual addictions, well there is a man that
38:40 I know, his name is Bill and he is the head of a drug
38:43 addiction center in Nebraska.
38:46 He told me once that just getting genuine intimacy into
38:52 his life is the thing that broke his addiction.
38:54 Because we know addictions are tied to false intimacy.
38:57 What he said was this, he noticed as he got stronger
39:00 and stronger into pornography, he was spending less and
39:03 less time with people, actual people.
39:05 He was drawing all his intimacy from those false spots.
39:08 He said he simply made one rule in his life that whenever
39:12 anybody asked him to do anything he would say yes.
39:15 So over the period of a month, whenever somebody asked
39:18 them to do anything, to go out and eat, go to the
39:20 convenience store, let's jump over there a need to get
39:23 something, he would just say yes.
39:24 The thing is that the last 10 days of that month he said,
39:28 suddenly he realized he had looked at porn for 10 days.
39:32 He realized it was because he was making those connections.
39:35 I don't think people understand the power of intimacy.
39:40 What I found in my own life is the greatest power is not the
39:44 power saying yes to go out to eat, or having relationships
39:48 with their brothers and sisters in Christ, but it's the intimacy
39:51 with God, and when that gets stronger it also helps to create
39:55 the transformation that keeps you from sin.
39:57 Listen to this study which I think is the most amazing thing.
40:01 I was working in the prison and a lot of times in prison
40:03 there are perpetrators, sexual addicts that are way out there.
40:09 There was a study that said, if a perpetrator, a hard-core
40:14 sexual perpetrator, child molester can connect in a real
40:18 sense with two or three people, the percentage rate of their
40:23 acting out is cut down by 95%.
40:25 It's that connection and then I went back to the Bible,
40:29 and the Bible says love one another, love one another.
40:33 I thought, wow God has always know we have to
40:37 connect with each other.
40:40 You know there is a basketball coach at one of the
40:43 universities in Iowa, that had to go to prison not long
40:47 ago for child pornography, and he said to me, I had went
40:51 out eat with him, he's out now.
40:52 I had went to eat with him a couple weeks ago and he said
40:56 that the hard part about coming back out is that while he
41:01 was in prison he had met a total of a hundred guys in
41:05 there in the sexual programs to help them get over it.
41:09 But he said if he really made connections with 3 or 4
41:12 that were really tight connections where they shared
41:15 everything and it really helped him to get stronger but
41:18 the moment you get out of prison and you are not allowed
41:21 to contact those people again for the next 3 or 4 years.
41:24 But what we're not understanding what's below that is we
41:27 are actually shooting ourselves in the foot, I think we
41:31 can get more these men on the right path by making those
41:34 connections, and of course in his case these men were
41:38 also Christian, it has the God factor.
41:42 The God factor is everything.
41:44 I'm going to ask if there's anybody here that wants to
41:47 ask a question of Brenda or Fred? Can I ask you?
41:53 Fred, what about women and their sexual addictions?
41:58 That is a great question, the thing about women and their
42:01 sexual addictions is that it is changing dramatically
42:04 over time, I mean men they have had this problem for a
42:08 long time, but if you look back into history, back in
42:12 the 70s when Hugh Hefner brought out Playgirl magazine
42:15 eventually it went defunct and belly up because there wasn't
42:19 that much interest for the women to look guys that way.
42:22 But what has happen with the MTV generation and then heavy
42:26 sensuality in Prime Time and movies is that we are seeing
42:30 a dramatic increase in women getting hooked
42:33 on porn for instance.
42:34 I know Christianity today, not too long ago had a
42:38 survey of their raters and 37% of them were regularly
42:41 looking at porn.
42:43 And when you look at the 30 and under most of the
42:46 statistics I've seen are generally somewhere around 50
42:50 to even 80% of women are regularly visiting porn sites.
42:54 Things are changing in the sense, with heavy sensuality
42:57 in our culture it is starting to help to rewire women,
43:01 or train them to use their visuality in the sexuality
43:05 process in ways that they really haven't in the past.
43:08 In terms of getting free from it, really a lot of the
43:11 principles are the same for women as they are for men.
43:14 First of all, you would certainly have to stop looking
43:17 at porn and stop bringing that sensuality into the eyes.
43:20 You would also do some of the same things,
43:24 get connected deeper with God so there is a more genuine
43:27 intimacy in your life.
43:29 Also with friends so there's more genuine intimacy that
43:32 way, when I talk to women they are saying the same things,
43:36 I'm lonely, there is no man in my life, I go to even things
43:39 like self stimulation because it makes me feel better,
43:42 and even for a moment anyway it feels like I'm
43:45 connecting with a guy.
43:47 And that's still an addiction, and I'm connecting with
43:49 an event or an object, nothing that is real.
43:52 Also what I find is not just visual for them.
43:55 They will read a romance novel that are pretty hot and
43:59 racy and they are being attracted by relationship,
44:02 they are being attracted by the relationships and the
44:05 longing for the relationship and that's what gets their
44:08 engines going, which we would expect from women because
44:11 that is how they're built.
44:13 Being able to say that the bottom line is we have to
44:15 connect with each other and go back to love one another
44:18 and those needs will be met, if we honestly did that.
44:21 Any other questions, Marcia did you have a question?
44:25 Yes, is there any books or advice you have four young
44:28 girls to understand what the young boys are going through?
44:32 Yeah, one book that they are reading of course is
44:34 'Every Young Man's Battle' because in that book I talk
44:37 to the young guys about how they are built, how their
44:41 sexual makeup is, and I get a lot of e-mails from young
44:44 women that are saying thank you for writing this book.
44:48 Now I understand the pressures they're going through.
44:51 I have had lots of e-mails from teenage girls who are
44:54 saying, I have just thrown out all my wardrobe,
44:56 I realize now the things I wear was blowing them out.
45:00 So they start all over and I think that is really good.
45:03 The other thing is that Shannon Ethridge has written a book
45:06 called 'Every Young Woman's Battle' and that is a book
45:10 that talks about the female side of it.
45:11 I've interviewed Shannon and she's also written
45:14 'Every Woman's Battle' which is amazing, so all of
45:17 her material is absolutely amazing that we do have to
45:20 educate ourselves and that is what you were saying Brenda.
45:23 I would say to, with 'Every Heart Restored' the one thing
45:26 I have been so pleased to hear from people that have read it,
45:30 it's helped wives to understand how their men are different.
45:34 It has really helped give the men a better picture of
45:36 how wives are built, so they are understanding better
45:39 what kind of pain it is causing in their lives.
45:41 A lot of times they will write to us say, I wasn't able to
45:44 explain well enough how I felt, but the book explains it
45:48 so well that they read it together.
45:50 They are both getting a good picture from each
45:53 other of their differences and how that sin
45:56 is affecting each other.
45:57 'Every Heart Restored' I first wrote it with Brenda and
46:03 guess the publisher at first was wondering,
46:05 why you have nine chapters on male sexuality in the middle
46:08 of this book for women?
46:10 Really it is the key healing factor.
46:14 If they do not understand how men are built, they are
46:17 never going to be able to understand it is not their
46:19 problem is actually the guys problem and they can
46:21 actually step up next to them and help.
46:23 I love the fact that they are reading it as couples.
46:27 That is really how you have to approach this battle as
46:31 couples, at least that is the most effective way.
46:35 What you are trying to achieve is a match made in heaven, this
46:39 powerful unit, a man and wife living holy together, that is
46:43 what you are aiming at, and that is what God
46:45 intended from the beginning.
46:46 You know what I would like to ask is, I would like to ask
46:50 you, what are some really healthy things that you have
46:53 learned to incorporate into your marriage that has helped
46:56 you in your recovery?
46:57 Well I think one of the best things is for me to walk
47:03 in Ephesians 5:3 which is don't even have a hint of
47:08 sexual immorality in your life.
47:10 That means I need to really guard my eyes.
47:13 Cheri: that's movies, commercials, books,
47:17 Fred: one of the nice things is that Brenda has always
47:21 believed that anyway, but she has been, and as a unit
47:25 we have done this strongly so in our home, my boys for
47:29 instance, learn how to bounce their eyes without me
47:32 actually ever explaining it to them.
47:33 They would see me watching a game, a commercial with some
47:36 of those babes would come on, I would bounce my eyes away
47:39 and groan and they learned to bounce their eyes away and
47:43 groan too, and so over time they began to learn from the
47:48 example, so the first thing is to walk in it.
47:51 Fred and I have taught pre-marriage classes for years,
47:54 one of the most important things we tell those young
47:57 couples is, if you will guard all that you watch, get rid
48:01 of some of its primetime TV, get rid of a lot of the
48:04 movies that have inappropriate, get rid of all that stuff,
48:07 you will find yourself to have a very healthy, happy,
48:10 intimate relationship with your spouse.
48:13 It is very simple but very fulfilling and is everything
48:17 God gave it to be, it requires nothing except getting rid
48:21 of that and you'll be happy with each other.
48:23 Fred: that's praise right there because most people see
48:26 that is a big sacrifice, but in the end there is no
48:29 sacrifice to it because we find all sorts of things to do anyway
48:33 It's not like you have to be watching those things.
48:36 The best part though from a relational standpoint,
48:40 is that you begin to start meeting in bed spiritually,
48:44 not just physically.
48:45 You know what I was stuck in sexual sin, it's sin and
48:48 even though I couldn't see the wall between us, even
48:51 though it was not noticeable to Brenda, there was a wall
48:54 between us and the Spirit realm.
48:55 One of the first things I noticed on the other side
48:58 of purity, our times in the marriage bed
49:02 were dramatically different and it was because, I believe,
49:06 that our spirits were meeting in ways they weren't meeting
49:09 before and so what happened was I started to be focusing
49:13 less on things like how it does it feel, and what the
49:16 intensity levels were, whatever you might say and I was
49:19 entirely focused on the passage of the intimacy between
49:23 us, and how we were connecting one on one on more of a
49:26 one of emotional and spiritual level.
49:29 Cheri: don't you think that, I really picture, sometimes,
49:32 God up there saying, I can't wait for you guys to trust Me
49:36 enough that I can teach you this.
49:38 You will not believe how cool your sexual life or your
49:42 intimacy is going to be, but you have to let Me
49:44 teach you how to do it.
49:46 Fred: we grow up learning about sex in locker rooms.
49:49 From friends at slumber parties and all these sorts of
49:53 things, so we buy into all the lies that the American culture
49:57 or any other culture might paint for us which is that
50:01 we are, the more we take part in porn or we take part
50:06 in these racy movies, but more hot things are for us,
50:10 the more smooth things go for us,
50:13 in my experience it's the opposite, once you dump all
50:17 those things out, everything about the sexual process between
50:21 a husband and wife smoothes out.
50:24 I find it has been one of the great gifts and one of the
50:27 great blessings when you asked the question,
50:30 what things have you put in place, that is one thing we
50:34 put into place by taking only sensuality out of our home
50:38 and then that makes our intimate life stronger, which then
50:42 makes our relationship stronger, and makes me less likely
50:46 to want to act out or do something silly like that.
50:49 So it starts to strengthen you and starts to spiral you in
50:52 a good direction instead of a bad direction.
50:54 We have a couple minutes and there was a term that I saw,
50:57 I think it was in your book Brenda.
50:59 About sex chillers, what is that? What does that mean?
51:03 It refers about the differences between men and women
51:07 and some of the things in men that chills the whole sexual
51:10 deal for the wife.
51:12 Some of the things we are that chills our women would be,
51:16 first of all we're very rebellious by nature.
51:21 Men tend to like to go their own way, and they tend
51:24 to go the easy way instead of God's way.
51:27 Because women are so global in their thinking,
51:30 and relationship is so involved with their sexuality,
51:34 that hurts the relationship so that hurts the sex life.
51:38 There are some other chillers, for instance less romantic
51:43 once marriage happens, where romantic as were moving towards
51:46 marriage but on the other side it's we get in the back of
51:50 the wagon for a nap so you drive.
51:53 The whole love relationship thing is not our focus anymore.
51:59 There are other ones, there are two but the point we
52:03 are making with the whole sex chillers section, is there
52:08 are differences that a man needs to understand.
52:12 You see one understand those chillers, I can stop doing
52:16 them, I don't have to be rebellious.
52:19 I don't have to be cold romantically.
52:22 I can start to work on those things, but the best thing
52:25 for Brenda is that when she sees those things are a
52:28 natural part of who we are, she can understand those to
52:32 work with me as well.
52:33 We have a couple minutes, in a couple minutes talk about
52:38 talk to somebody that is struggling, I don't know how to
52:43 get out of this, I don't how to change.
52:45 A wife maybe that is saying this is killing me,
52:49 I don't know if I could trust him again.
52:55 Brenda: I think for wives one of the hardest things is
52:57 that sometimes you have a husband that is very committed
53:01 to wanting to change, by then you are fighting a different
53:05 battle and it's not his battle to be clean, so to speak,
53:08 it's her battle to trust him again.
53:11 That is a real tough thing because he is feeling like,
53:13 oh boy I've never valued my marriage more, and she's
53:16 saying, oh boy! you've been living a lie forever.
53:18 Their seeing from totally opposite, he's saying, oh gee!
53:21 it's going to take three years to recover but I think
53:24 I can do it a little faster.
53:25 She is saying, well that sounds like forever.
53:29 So learning to trust is very difficult, your having to
53:32 watch your husband to see if he is having trustworthy
53:35 acts, is he doing things, is he asking me things of what
53:38 to do to prove to you that I am trustworthy again.
53:41 One of the main things that we look for as wives is
53:44 his patience as we heal and recover.
53:46 His patience is a deep indicator of his understanding of
53:51 the hurt and pain that he has caused.
53:53 Another indicator is actual repentance.
53:56 If he is impatient with her healing, he hasn't really
54:01 seen what he has done.
54:03 I just want to say that I have been blessed, I've been
54:05 so blessed and I thank you for joining us.
54:07 Thank you for sharing with us on your whole journey.
54:10 This is a really touchy subject, but I'm just blessed, and
54:14 I know that anybody watching this has been blessed too.
54:18 Stay with us, will be right back!
54:25 Amazing stories of real people in real situations
54:28 discussing issues that really matter.
54:30 The complete first season of Celebrating Life In Recovery
54:34 is now available on DVD and can be ordered by calling 3ABN:
54:37 Or order online at:
54:40 Hosted by Cheri Peters this season follows principles
54:43 from the book 'Steps to Christ'.
54:45 See for yourself, how God changed the lives of the
54:47 convicted, the accused, and victims of terrible crimes.
54:50 You won't want to miss a moment of these powerful interviews.
55:00 God is good to us.
55:01 I finally had to see that I have a choice to continue in my sin,
55:06 hurt, anger, addiction, or to repent, a gift from God
55:09 that brings with it life.
55:11 How can a man be just with God?
55:12 How can those lost in an addiction be made right?
55:15 The Bible says it is only through Christ that we can be
55:18 brought into harmony with God to holiness.
55:20 But how, let's look at Acts on the day of Pentecost when
55:24 convictions of their sins came out on the folks, they
55:27 said what do I have to do?
55:29 Peter said to them repent and another time in Acts
55:32 he said, repent and be converted that your
55:34 sins may be blotted out.
55:35 The book of Acts as people started to see their need,
55:39 the most incredible gift God offers us is the ability
55:42 to see ourselves, as we truly are, and without that we
55:45 would not even seek healing, so it is an important part
55:48 of recovery, regardless of your stuff.
55:50 Look at it, don't be afraid to fully look at it.
55:53 It is painful for sure, and I know it's painful.
55:56 Everything in me wants to rebel against that.
55:58 I don't want to see my character defects.
56:00 I don't want to see the fact that I'm lost in this or that
56:03 or that I have workaholism or perfectionism, or like
56:07 Fred and Brenda are talking about how their life was being
56:09 destroyed, about sexual sins that had been with him since
56:12 he was 6 years old.
56:13 I don't want to see any of that, but it is a necessary
56:16 part of healing, would you go to the doctor if there was
56:18 nothing wrong? No! But if you have a little pain in
56:20 your chest and Heh, I'm there.
56:22 If this is emotional pain, and God is a great physician, repent
56:27 it includes sorrow for sin and turning away from it.
56:30 We will not stop our addictions no matter what they are
56:33 unless we see the ugliness of them.
56:35 It's sinfulness, until we turn away from it in our heart,
56:38 and there will be no real change in our life.
56:40 There are so many who don't understand the nature of
56:44 repentance, so many feel sorrow that they have sin,
56:47 and even made an outward change because they feared that
56:51 they might get caught or in trouble or what ever.
56:53 If anyone knew about this it becomes scary as their
56:56 addiction takes over, but this is not repentance.
56:59 In the Bible sense they fear the suffering not the addiction
57:02 as sin, in fact many protect their addiction as if
57:06 it were their friend.
57:07 Even their lover, something that could bring comfort
57:10 for an escape, not realizing it brings slavery and death.
57:14 When an addict, rageaholic, sex offender, what ever fears
57:17 the loss, their spouse is going, leave them, they face
57:20 jail time and all that stuff.
57:23 They settled back into a normal thing as soon as that
57:26 repentance feeling ends, that is not repentance.
57:29 Repentance is when I look at it and I understand what God
57:33 says, I understand that this is not right.
57:36 I understand that:
57:43 and when you get there and surrender it to God,
57:47 God will fill you up and your life will never be the same.
57:50 It will never be the same, He wants to give us joy and
57:53 life abundantly and I just ask you to please trust Him.
57:56 Please trust Him.
57:58 Next time we will be talking about confession,
58:00 now that is fun, you know what?
58:02 It will be good stuff, so next time
58:04 Celebrating Life In Recovery, join us.
58:06 We'll be talking about confession and you will meet
58:08 some great folks, bye-bye!


Revised 2014-12-17