Participants: Pastor Stephen Bohr
Series Code: CGC
Program Code: CGC000035
01:12 Shall we bow our heads for prayer.
01:14 Father in heaven, as we open up your holy book
01:19 We realize more than ever, that we need the aid of your
01:22 of your holy spirit. We ask that you will be present with us
01:26 through that spirit, that gave us the word
01:30 Help us to understand and to receive what you have for us
01:33 Help us to have greater admiration for you.
01:37 We pray in the precious name of Jesus, Amen.
01:44 In our lecture for this moment, we are going to speak
01:48 about God's heavenly counsel.
01:53 We want to begin our study in the book of Job chapter 38.
01:58 I'm going to focus especially on verse 7.
02:02 I want to give you a little bit of background
02:06 about Job, before we read this verse
02:10 and the verses that surround it.
02:14 You know the story of Job.
02:17 Basically, chapter 1 and 2 tells us that Job lost everything that
02:22 he had. The only thing he didn't lose was his life.
02:26 He lost his health, servants and his wife turned against him
02:31 His friends turned against him. He lost servants,
02:35 he lost all of his animals, he lost all of his properties.
02:39 In a matter of minutes, he lost everything that he had.
02:42 That is the first two chapters.
02:45 Beginning in chapter three, Job starts complaining to God.
02:51 He starts asking God to explain the reason why he's going
02:56 through this period of crisis.
02:58 He says to God, I was a family man, I offered sacrifices
03:02 for my children, I used my riches to benefit the poor.
03:05 I clothed the naked. I blessed humanity.
03:08 I consecrated my life to you. So why is this happening to me
03:14 Please explain.
03:17 From chapter 3 to chapter 37,
03:21 God's only answer
03:24 is absolute silence.
03:28 This frustrates Job.
03:31 So, all throughout these chapters, 3 through 37.
03:34 Job is crying out for God to explain his suffering
03:40 and God says nothing to Job.
03:43 Finally, in chapter 38.
03:47 God is going to tell Job,
03:49 Job, now I'm going to ask the questions
03:55 and you answer me.
03:57 Lets read Job 38, beginning with verse 1.
04:02 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind
04:06 and said, Who is this that darkened counsel by words
04:10 without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like
04:14 a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
04:20 God is saying, it's my turn to ask questions.
04:23 Notice verse 4.
04:54 What is being described in these verses? Creation.
04:58 I want you to notice verse 7, this is the key verse
05:01 in this whole passage.
05:03 It says in verse 7.
05:05 that when God did all of these things, he laid the foundation
05:09 of the earth, he laid the measures
05:12 he laid the foundations and the cornerstone
05:17 it tells us in verse 7 something happened when He did that.
05:21 This is pre-creation or at the moment of creation at least.
05:38 Did you notice that when Jesus created this world
05:41 there were two groups that celebrated God's work?
05:45 One group is called the stars of heaven and the other group
05:48 is called the sons of God.
05:50 I don't think we have to look to far in the Bible
05:53 to understand who the morning stars were.
05:56 In Revelation chapter 12, we find that when the
06:00 Devil fell from heaven he drew a third of the stars
06:04 from heaven with him. It is explained there that the
06:09 angels of Satan were cast to the earth with him.
06:12 So, stars, the morning stars represent angels
06:16 you'll notice that the angels preexisted creation
06:20 because they sang at creation.
06:23 What about this group that is described as the sons of God?
06:28 Who are these sons of God?
06:31 I believe the best answer to that question would be to let
06:35 Job, himself tell us who the sons of God are.
06:38 Did you know that in two other places, in his book
06:41 he mentions the sons of God. Lets go in our Bibles
06:45 to Job chapter 1. I want to read quickly
06:48 through verses 1 through 7.
06:54 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job;
06:58 and that man was perfect and upright and one that feared God,
07:02 and eschewed evil.
07:04 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
07:07 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three
07:10 thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen
07:13 and five hundred she asses, and a very great household
07:17 so that this man was the greatest of all the men
07:20 of the east.
07:22 And he sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his
07:27 day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat
07:31 and drink with them. And it was so, when the days of their
07:36 feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them
07:40 and rose up early in the morning and offered burnt offerings
07:44 according to the number of them all: for Job said,
07:46 It maybe that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their
07:49 hearts. Thus did Job continually.
07:54 Now verses 6 and 7 are the key verses.
08:13 Do the Sons of God come all the time to present themselves
08:15 Do they live in the presence of the Lord?
08:16 Not according to this, it says that they came on a certain
08:21 occasion to present themselves before the Lord
08:23 which means that they do not dwell where the Lord is.
08:29 Because they came.
08:30 It says, now there was a day when the sons of God came
09:04 Did you notice that Satan came to this meeting among the sons
09:08 of God? We have the strong impression that Satan claimed to
09:12 have a right to belong to this group, know as the sons of God.
09:16 he came among them.
09:18 The interesting thing is, that the story describes
09:22 Satan coming from a planet.
09:26 Planet earth.
09:29 I don't think we have to be too intelligent to figure out
09:33 That if Satan comes among this group,
09:38 called the sons of God, to present himself before God
09:41 and he comes from a planet,
09:44 It must mean that the other sons of God, that belong to the
09:48 same group, most likely also came from planets
09:53 Are you understanding what I am saying?
09:59 Now the first meeting ended, Job loses everything he had,
10:02 except that God didn't let the Devil touch Job.
10:07 So, now there is another meeting that takes place.
10:09 Notice Job chapter 2:1-2.
10:17 Notice carefully. Again there was a day when the
10:22 sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,
10:26 Now this is very important,
10:28 What did the sons of God do?
10:31 They came to present themselves before the Lord.
10:34 Would this mean, that they went back to where ever they lived
10:38 after the first meeting?
10:40 See its so simple They must have gone back to where they lived.
10:45 It says that they came on another day to present
10:49 themselves before the Lord.
10:51 Which means that they came to the first meeting,
10:53 they went back to where they lived,
10:55 and then they came back to the second meeting.
10:58 They don't live in the presence of God.
11:03 Notice once again, in chapter 2:2.
11:07 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou?
11:12 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro
11:16 in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
11:21 We find that the sons of God do not permanently dwell
11:26 in the presence of God. We find that God
11:30 off and on. We don't know how frequently, calls the sons of
11:35 God into his presence for a meeting.
11:38 We discovered that Satan who claims the right to be among
11:42 the sons of God, comes from a planet, planet earth.
11:45 Which would lead us to assume that the other sons of God
11:49 which belong to that group must also come from planets
11:56 Now we have another description of a heavenly counsel in the
11:59 old testament. I really don't now if I should go into it
12:02 because our time is so limited for these presentations
12:06 I would like to invite you. I'll give you the references
12:09 2 Chronicles 18:18-21
12:15 It is a rather long passage, but I want you to read that
12:18 passage, and you'll notice that you have the heavenly counsel
12:21 convening in heaven, all of the heavenly hosts are around God's
12:26 throne. God says, to all the heavenly hosts, Who is willing
12:31 to go and persuade King Ahab to go to battle
12:35 against the Syrians, so he gets killed in battle.
12:40 You'll notice that the heavenly counsel could not agree
12:43 on how it would be done.
12:46 It says that one said one thing and the other said another.
12:49 Suddenly, a spirit appears into the presence of the Lord
12:54 and he says, I'll entice Ahab to fight against the Syrians
12:58 so they kill him.
13:00 The Lord says, how are you going to do it?
13:03 He says, I will be a lying spirit
13:08 in the mouth of all his prophets
13:17 They will tell Ahab to go knowing well,
13:19 that he's going to be killed.
13:21 Let me ask you.
13:23 Does God use lying as a method to accomplish his purposes?
13:29 Do the loyal, faithful angels use lying?
13:32 They most certainly don't. Who was this spirit that was
13:35 present up there next to God's throne, who says, I'll go
13:39 down there and lead the prophets to tell him to go to battle
13:44 full well knowing that he is going to be killed.
13:46 It must have been Satan. I want you to notice, is
13:50 there is deliberation in the heavenly counsel concerning
13:55 earthly events.
13:58 We need to ask a very urgent question.
14:00 It's this, What was Satan doing in that meeting,
14:05 in the book of Job, and in the meeting in 2 Chr 18?
14:11 What was Satan doing representing planet earth
14:15 in that heavenly meeting?
14:17 Well, we've read this text in our first two lectures.
14:22 Luke 4:5-7, The Devil takes Jesus up to a very
14:27 high mountain. He shows him all of the kingdoms of the world.
14:32 He says to Jesus, all of these kingdoms and their power
14:38 I will give you.
14:40 They have been delivered unto me and to whom ever
14:44 I wish, I give them.
14:47 Who delivered this earth to Satan?
14:52 It was Adam. The reason why Satan went
14:57 to that meeting in heaven or went to those meetings
15:00 in heaven, representing planet earth is because, Satan had
15:05 taken over the representative role over this earth
15:09 He had sat on the throne where Adam was and he claimed
15:13 dominion over this territory.
15:17 The Devil usurped, or took away the position
15:22 of Adam.
15:26 We need to study a few things about Adam.
15:29 It's very interesting, In order to understand God's heavenly
15:33 counsel. We must take a look at Adam and God's original plan
15:38 for him. I'm not talking about Adam after he sinned
15:41 I'm talking about Adam as God planned originally for him
15:46 Turn with me to Luke 3:23.
15:54 Here we find a description of the genealogy of Christ.
15:58 I'm going to read the beginning of his genealogy
16:02 and then I'm going to read the end of his genealogy
16:05 It says there in Luke 3:23.
16:44 What is Adam called? Adam is called the son of God.
16:49 Was Adam the son of God in a special sense?
16:54 In a different sense then we are?
16:57 Of course he was. We are technically not sons of God.
17:01 We are sons of Adam. Sons and daughters of Adam
17:07 There is only one that can say they came out of the hands
17:10 of the creator. That was Adam.
17:13 Of course also Eve, that was taken from Adam.
17:17 In the strictest sense of the word, the only one who could
17:20 be called the son of God, is Adam.
17:24 Notice here that Adam is called the son of God.
17:30 Does that ring a bell, when you look at the book of Job?
17:33 Very Interesting. Who was the original son of God from planet
17:36 earth? It was Adam.
17:40 Allow me to read a statement we find in Patriots and Prophets
17:43 page 44.
17:45 Ellen White caught this point, she says.
18:15 She is quoting, Luke 3:38. She says,
18:18 He was placed as God's representative over the lower
18:24 orders of being.
18:28 Clearly we find Adam being called son of God.
18:34 There are some other interesting details about God's
18:37 original description and plan for Adam.
18:41 Do you know, that Adam was crowned in the garden of Eden?
18:46 Notice what we find in Psalm 8,
18:50 Which we read in a previous lecture. Psalm 8:3-5.
18:56 Here it speaks about the crowning of Adam
19:00 Psalm 8:3-5.
19:45 Allow me to read a statement we find in God's Amazing Grace,
19:50 devotional book by Ellen White, pg 44. She also caught this
19:54 point that we notice from scripture from Psalm 8.
20:40 We find Adam, the son of God, crowned to be king.
20:44 As a king, he represented planet earth.
20:50 I wasn't to read a statement that we find in the
20:54 devotional book, The faith I Live By, it is
20:58 also found in Patriots and Prophets, pg 48.
21:18 What was Adam? He was the father and representative
21:24 of the whole human family. In other words, Adam
21:28 was the representative,
21:31 the legitimate representative of earth.
21:36 Are you starting to get the interesting picture?
21:40 The son of God, crowned to be king, the realm
21:43 of his dominion, everything relating to the earth.
21:48 The birds of the air, the fish of the waters and the animals
21:52 that walk upon the land, all where the sphere of his dominion
21:57 and he is the father and representative of planet earth.
22:03 How was Adam garbed, how was he clothed
22:07 originally, before sin? Actually,
22:12 he was covered with a robe of light.
22:17 Like the garments that God wears. You know in the Bible
22:19 where it speaks about angels being clothed in white linen
22:22 and God the Father being clothed in white linen?
22:26 The white linen of the angels and of God, is a garment of
22:34 Do you remember the women of Revelation 12?
22:37 It says, representing the true church, she's clothed with what?
22:41 With the sun.
22:45 So, the garments are garments of light, but what happened
22:48 when Adam and Eve sinned? What happened to the garment of light
22:52 They went away and they saw that they were naked.
22:55 So, they took fig leaves to cover themselves, but originally
22:58 they were robed in white garments.
23:02 Allow me to read again a statement this is from Patriots
23:06 and Prophets, pg 45. See, we go to scripture and then we read
23:09 the spirit of prophecy.
23:12 Ellen White says this.
23:51 We find Adam and Eve garbed with garments of light.
23:57 Lets summarize what we have studied.
24:00 First, Adam is the son of God. As he was originally created.
24:06 Second, we find Adam crowned.
24:10 Third, we find that the realm of his dominion is everything
24:14 connected with planet earth.
24:17 Fourth, he is the father and representative of planet earth.
24:21 He is robed with garments of light.
24:27 Of course if he was representative of earth, that
24:30 means that if God ever called a meeting, who would go
24:34 representing earth? Adam.
24:36 Who represents the United States of America, if there
24:39 is a meeting? Like the G7 meeting, it is often called?
24:44 Who goes representing our country? The President of the US
24:49 He is ruler so to speak. He's not a king. He's democratically
24:54 elected, but he is still the ruler. He represents the US.
24:59 In the same way Adam was ruler over the earth,
25:03 and he represented this world.
25:07 Something terrible happened, Adam, we've noticed in chapter 4
25:12 Also by the fact, Jesus calls Satan the Prince of this world
25:17 Adam lost his throne, he abdicated his throne.
25:21 Satan sat on the throne and claimed the earth. That's why
25:24 when he went to the heavenly meeting, he says, I've been
25:28 roaming over the earth.
25:30 Patrolling, supervising my territory, is what he is saying.
25:35 He comes among the sons of God.
25:38 Now, if the original son of God was Adam
25:40 a creature from a planet. Who must the other sons of God
25:46 be? Is it possible that they are Adams from other planets?
25:52 From other worlds? I believe so.
25:54 Lets go to the book of Revelation.
25:58 Revelation chapter 4, lets examine
26:02 a few of the things we studied in a previous lecture.
26:06 Revelation chapter 4, I want to begin at verse 2.
26:12 Doors open in heaven, John is invited to go through the door
26:16 when he goes into the door, he sees there
26:20 a throne. Lets read on about it.
26:36 How many were seated on the throne? One.
26:39 Why only one? We studied this in our previous lecture
26:42 The reason why there is only one, is because the angels
26:46 have all left to pick up Jesus to bring him back to heaven
26:50 That takes place in Revelation chapter 5.
26:54 We find this throne, where God the Father is seated.
26:59 I want you to notice, verse 4.
27:24 What position are the elder in? They are sitting.
27:26 What are they sitting on? Thrones.
27:29 Who sits on thrones? Kings.
27:33 Unless you don't believe these are kings.
27:36 lets continue reading.
27:38 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats:
27:43 and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting.
28:09 Who wears crowns? Kings.
28:12 There are several interesting details in this verse.
28:15 We need to know that these are not angels. We are going to
28:17 notice this a little bit later, or more clearly.
28:21 These are not angels. In scripture, angels are not
28:25 portrayed as sitting. They are always in movement.
28:29 Fulfilling the missions of God. They are ministering spirits
28:33 They don't have any sphere of ruler ship.
28:37 and furthermore, in scripture it self, there is no reference
28:41 as far as I am able to find, to angels having crowns.
28:49 We find here, that these beings
28:52 are kings, they are seated on thrones
28:57 they must be rulers somewhere. They're garbed in white garments
29:02 We also find in Revelation 4, that they are creatures
29:07 Notice Revelation 4:9-10.
29:12 It says in verse 9, And when these living creatures
29:17 give glory and honor and thanks to him that sat on the throne
29:21 who liveth for ever and ever.
29:50 They are worshiping the one on the throne as the creator
29:53 which means that they must be what?
29:55 They must be creatures.
29:58 So, you have creatures that are crowned
30:02 Creatures that sit upon thrones. Creatures that are garbed
30:07 in white garments. They have come to this meeting
30:11 place. Where everything's being prepared for the arrival of
30:15 whom? For the arrival of Jesus Christ
30:20 We noticed in our previous lecture that in the midst of the
30:25 throne, there were four living beings.
30:31 Which we identified as what? As seraphim.
30:36 Commanding angels with six wings. If you read
30:42 Ezekiel chapters 10 and 11, you'll discover that the
30:45 cherubim are described in very similar terminology.
30:48 In other words, present there, awaiting the arrival of Christ,
30:52 were cherubim and seraphim.
30:57 Then, you remember in chapter 4, Jesus is
31:02 missing, right? He's not sitting on the throne. In chapter 4
31:06 are the angels there? The angels aren't there.
31:09 There missing. You say, where is Jesus, where are the angels
31:15 The fact is, the one on the throne is praised, because he is
31:18 the creator. There is no reference to redemption.
31:20 But, when you get to chapter five, there are clear references
31:25 to redemption. Jesus appears and all of the angelic hosts
31:29 also appear, along with Jesus, because in chapter 5
31:33 Jesus arrives in heaven.
31:38 Go with me to chapter 5 and verse 5.
31:42 And one of the elders saith unto me,
31:45 Weep not: behold
31:50 the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath
31:55 prevailed. Prevailed over whom? Who did he prevail over?
32:01 He prevailed over Satan. Hath prevailed to open the book
32:06 and to loose the seven seals thereof.
32:11 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the
32:15 four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood
32:20 a lamb as it had been slain. What did it cost this
32:25 lamb in order to over come Satan? Was he scared?
32:30 Yes, he was. It says, a lamb as it had been slain.
32:35 having seven horns and seven eyes.
32:39 Which are the seven spirits of God sent forth to all the earth
32:44 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of
32:48 him that sat upon the throne
32:51 Now in chapter 5, Jesus arrives. If you go to verse 11 you find
32:56 all the angelic hosts around the throne and they are singing
32:59 honor and glory, not only to the one seated on the throne,
33:02 the creator, but they are singing honor and glory
33:05 and praise to Jesus Christ, because he is the redeemer.
33:11 Are you catching the picture?
33:12 And present there, are the 24 elders.
33:18 Now, there is another person missing.
33:22 In the story of Revelation 4 and 5.
33:27 If this is the heavenly counsel, where at a certain time
33:31 the sons of God, who are rulers, are crowned and are garbed in
33:35 white and are sons of God. They are invited to come on special
33:40 occasions to heaven. Among those
33:44 to those meetings, came Satan. Whom would we expect
33:49 to come to this meeting, that takes place in Revelation 4, 5?
33:55 Well if the 24 elders are the representatives of the world
33:59 which seems to be the case, when you look at the comparison
34:02 between Job and Revelation chapters 4 and 5.
34:05 You would expect Satan to be there, but the fact is
34:10 that Satan is missing in the story of Revelation 4 and 5.
34:17 Do you know why?
34:19 Because at the cross of Calvary, he was overcome.
34:24 Go with me to John chapter 12 and lets notice this.
34:28 John chapter 12, lets see if it all fits together
34:33 John 12 verses 31-33. This is just a couple of days
34:38 before the death of Christ.
34:40 It says there in John 12:31.
34:44 The following.
35:07 This is not the talking about the original casting out
35:10 of Satan from heaven. This is another casting out.
35:12 Did you know the Devil was cast out of heaven at the cross?
35:15 He was cast out as a representative of this world.
35:20 Notice how Jesus did it. Verse 32.
35:23 And I if I be lifted up from the earth will draw all men unto me
35:29 This he said, signifying
35:31 what death he should die
35:35 What is it that cast Satan out of heaven according to Jesus?
35:40 It was going to be, his what? His death on the cross.
35:43 When Jesus says, It is finished to his father,
35:46 he is also saying, He is finished.
35:51 His head was crushed.
35:54 Satan no longer represents planet earth.
35:58 Now, Jesus ascends to heaven and the human race has a
36:02 new representative.
36:05 That's the reason the new testament calls Jesus
36:09 the last Adam.
36:13 In 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and verse 45.
36:17 Jesus is called the last Adam, because Jesus came
36:22 to recover that which Adam lost.
36:28 He did that.
36:30 I'd like to read some statements here,
36:33 These statements come from several sources
36:39 The first is in the Gospel Herald, March 1, 1901.
36:43 Notice what Ellen White says. She caught this point
36:47 That no long could Satan go around representing this world
36:50 when the sons of God gather in heaven. Satan can't go there.
36:55 Jesus has taken the place of Satan.
37:00 It says there. Christ was to suffer in our behalf.
37:05 Standing at the head of humanity
37:09 as representative of the race. What was Jesus going to do?
37:14 He's going to be at the head of humanity as the representative
37:18 of the race. He was to work out the character which every
37:22 follower of his, is to work out.
37:25 Through the provision which he has made. His infinite sacrifice
37:30 his life and death on earth.
37:34 So, who is the new head and representative of planet earth?
37:37 It is the second Adam, Jesus.
37:41 Signs of the Times, January 16, 1896.
37:45 We find these words.
38:10 Let me ask you. Who is the new king of planet earth?
38:13 Who is the new representative of planet earth
38:15 in the heavenly counsel? It's none less then Jesus Christ
38:20 Satan, the prince of this world, was cast down at the cross
38:24 of Calvary. Now, when ever there are meetings in heaven
38:28 Jesus represents this earth. He represents this planet.
38:35 So, who are the 24 elders of Revelation chapter 4?
38:42 I have no doubts in my mind, that by the characteristics
38:45 we have studied, that the 24 elders represent the
38:49 representatives of the unfallen worlds.
38:53 They're crowned because they are kings of their planets.
38:57 They sit on thrones because they are kings. They are garbed in
39:01 white. Just like Adam was when he was created originally.
39:04 They are the rulers of the worlds who where invited
39:09 to the inauguration of Jesus, upon his return to heaven.
39:14 Now, I know someone is saying, wait a minute pastor Bohr.
39:19 You are passing over a problem.
39:23 We need to solve this problem.
39:26 The problem is in Revelation 5: 9-10.
39:30 We have to deal with the problems also. Revelation 5:9-10
39:33 Do you know that traditionally in the Seventh-day Adventist
39:37 Church, the idea is, the 24 elders represent those
39:42 who resurrected with Christ.
39:45 Even the most resent books that you find at the ABC.
39:48 Teach that, the 24 elders are those who resurrected with Jesus
39:54 which we spoke about in our previous lecture.
39:56 Folks, it's not possible.
39:59 The 24 elders are there in heaven in Revelation 4
40:04 before Jesus arrives in chapter 5, with those delivered from
40:08 the grave. Are you understanding me or not?
40:12 Notice Revelation 5:9-10. This is where we have the problem
40:16 We have to solve it, because this morning after I presented
40:20 my sermon, or my lecture, I had someone say, Ahh, there is this
40:25 little problem. You said the 24 elders are the representatives
40:28 of the worlds but what do you do with this? I said, come tonight
40:31 He said, I can't.
40:33 We will have to get him the DVD.
40:36 Revelation chapter 5 verses 9-10.
40:41 It says there. Lets read verse 8, for the context.
40:46 When he had taken the book, notice this. The four beasts
40:51 and 24 elders. Did you catch this point?
40:55 The four living creatures, the 24 elders. Very important point.
40:59 Fell down before the Lamb, having everyone of them harps
41:03 and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
41:24 Were the seraphim's redeemed from the earth
41:26 from every kindred and tribe? Of course, not.
41:29 I asked that point for a purpose.
41:31 Notice what we find in verse 9.
42:27 What do we do with that problem? It seems to say that the 24
42:31 elders are redeemed from every nation on planet earth.
42:34 It seems to say that they are going to be kings upon the earth
42:38 This problem is not as complicated as it seems.
42:42 There is a problem in translation here.
42:46 The King James translators, miss translated verses 9:10.
42:51 By the way, almost every single modern version corrects
42:55 the problem in translation. Whether it's the NIV, the
42:59 New English Bible, Jerusalem Bible. All the modern versions
43:02 translate these two verses correctly.
43:06 The pronoun us, is not in the original.
43:11 It is added by the King James translators
43:14 For some unexplainable reason, in verse 10
43:19 in Greek, it says, They shall rein upon the earth
43:23 and they took the liberty of changing it to, we shall
43:26 rein upon the earth.
43:28 I'm not saying that the King James version is a bad version
43:32 what I'm saying is, no version of the Bible is perfect.
43:36 If you go to the Greek, in which the new testament
43:40 was written, it becomes very clear that the 24 elders
43:44 where not redeemed from every nation. They're actually singing
43:48 about the redeemed. The best translation actually says
43:52 in verse 9. And they sung a new song, saying thou art
43:55 worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof
43:59 for thou was slain and hast redeemed to God by thy
44:05 blood, out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation
44:09 Not us, but you have redeemed people from every sphere
44:13 of planet earth and hast us made
44:16 onto our God kings and priests
44:20 Not us, but you have made kings and priests, and then
44:24 they shall reign upon the earth.
44:28 Are you understanding what I'm saying?
44:31 Now, we solved the problem in translation.
44:36 We have a few more things we have to take a look at.
44:39 As we examine the heavenly counsel
44:42 Sometimes the best way to determine, who a group are,
44:48 is by studying, who they are not.
44:51 So, lets start disqualifying
44:55 the different groups that we know of in scripture
44:59 that exist in heaven and on earth.
45:03 Number 1, are the 24 elders the same as the 4 living creatures?
45:09 What are the 4 living creatures? They are cherubim and seraphim
45:13 So are the 24 elders cherubim and seraphim? No, because
45:18 in Revelation 4 and 5 they are distinguished
45:20 They are two different groups.
45:22 Are the 24 four elders part of the angelic host?
45:29 Maybe so, lets go to Revelation 5:11.
45:33 Revelation 5:11, they are not angels, not part of the angelic
45:37 host. Notice carefully, Revelation 5:11
45:42 It says that I beheld, and I heard the voice of many
45:46 angels, round about the throne and the living creatures
45:49 and the elders.
45:51 Are the angelic host distinguished from the elders
45:54 and from the four living creatures in that verse?
45:57 Yes, they are not cherubim, seraphim which are the leaders
46:01 of angels they're not part of the angelic hosts
46:05 They're not angelic beings.
46:10 What about those that resurrected with Christ.
46:13 maybe they are the ones who resurrected with Jesus
46:16 I've already mentioned that, that isn't possible.
46:19 because they are already present in the throne room
46:22 before Jesus arrives with those that resurrected
46:24 Are you understanding my point, or not?
46:27 The elders are already in heaven before Jesus arrives
46:30 with those that resurrected with him.
46:33 which means that, these beings were invited to the reception
46:36 of Jesus should arrive in heaven.
46:40 Somebody, might say, well Pastor maybe it's a different name
46:43 for an unnumbered host of the redeemed.
46:47 Again, nice try. In Revelation chapter 7
46:51 verse 13, if you go with me there. Rev 7:13.
46:56 We find that the 24 elders are actually distinguished
46:59 from the great multitude which no one could number
47:03 Revelation chapter 7, but lets begin at verse 9.
47:07 It says, After this I beheld a great multitude, which no man
47:10 number, of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues
47:13 Stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with
47:16 white robes, and palms in their hands.
47:19 Verse 13. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me
47:24 What are these which are arrayed in white robes?
47:28 and whence came they? Notice, one of the elders is asking
47:31 who are these great multitude? As seen by John. Would he ask
47:34 who is this great multitude, if he was part of the multitude?
47:38 Of course not. The 24 elders are distinguished from the great
47:41 multitude of the redeemed.
47:44 Someone might say, well Pastor Bohr, maybe their the ones
47:47 that are going to resurrect when Jesus comes. When he comes down
47:50 with a shout, with a voice of the archangel the trumpet of God
47:53 The dead in Christ will rise, they must be the 24 elders.
47:57 Won't work because the 24 elders were there at the Ascension
48:01 God's people won't resurrect until the second coming of Jesus
48:05 Someone might say, Pastor Bohr, what about the 144,000?
48:08 those that will be alive when Jesus comes, maybe their
48:12 the 144,000 with a different name.
48:15 Again, if you read Revelation 14:3. You'll discover that
48:19 the elders are distinguished from the 144,000.
48:24 These beings are not angels and they don't
48:28 fit into any category of human beings.
48:32 So, what are we left with?
48:36 They must be a different order of being.
48:40 They're not angelic and they're not human.
48:43 From what we have studied, they must be, the what?
48:46 They must be the representatives of the worlds. They must be
48:51 the Adams of the different realms all across the universe.
48:55 I'd like to read a portion of a passage that I read in
48:59 our previous lecture. This is found in the Desire of Ages
49:02 pg 834. Ellen White caught
49:05 This long before I did
49:08 There's not many people that have the same view that I do
49:12 of the 24 elders, but I believe that we have firm biblical
49:15 evidence and spirit of prophecy evidence for what I'm presenting
49:19 In Desire of Ages, Ellen White says this.
49:22 Speaking about the moment when Jesus arrives into the city
49:25 Pg 834.
50:14 By the way, who would those be in Rev 4?
50:19 The four living creatures. The 24 elders would be, what?
50:25 The representatives of the worlds.
50:26 Then Ellen White says this.
51:39 If the one seated on the throne is the father, as she identifies
51:42 If the four living creatures are cherubim and seraphim
51:47 If the Lamb, as though he had been slain, is Christ.
51:53 If the innumerable host that is singing are angels, because
51:57 she interprets them as angels.
52:01 Must we also expect to find in this passage the identity of the
52:05 24 elders? Absolutely.
52:08 Whom does she say they are?
52:11 She says the representatives of the unfallen worlds
52:15 the sons of God.
52:20 He points to the tokens of his triumph
52:36 You know the interesting thing is, God makes decisions
52:39 in heaven by consulting his heavenly counsel.
52:44 There's an interesting reference in the book Story of Redemption
52:49 There Ellen White explains when Satan
52:53 who was Lucifer at that time, was rebel rising in heaven
52:58 and he was spreading rumors against God, turning the
53:01 heavenly beings against God.
53:02 It got to a point, where God gathered
53:04 the heavenly counsel, which would be the representatives
53:08 of the worlds, and the angels.
53:12 He said, this is what's happening, it's being done in an
53:17 underhanded way, but this is what's being done.
53:19 What do you suggest we do?
53:24 Do you know what the counsel said?
53:26 Expel him from heaven.
53:29 The decision to expel Lucifer from heaven was not a unilateral
53:34 decision by God. It was a decision made
53:38 by the heavenly counsel. God works by committee.
53:48 Is it that nice?
53:50 You know as a Pastor I've learned that I can't make
53:52 unilateral decisions, I have to have backing of the board.
53:59 So God, before he make any decision regarding this earth
54:03 important decision he gathers the heavenly counsel
54:08 to decide what is going to be done.
54:13 I need to conclude this, I want to just mention
54:17 that the 24 elders are mentioned
54:22 in six chapters
54:26 of the book of Revelation.
54:30 The first reference is in Revelation 4, and I want you to
54:33 notice the relationship. The first chapter the 24 elders are
54:36 mentioned is chapter 4. They are praising the one on the throne
54:39 because he is the creator.
54:42 Jesus hasn't arrived yet.
54:45 They are found in chapter 5. In chapter 5,
54:50 they are praising Jesus
54:55 because he is the redeemer.
55:01 See, they were invited there before Jesus ascended
55:03 they're there for the celebration when Jesus arrives.
55:07 To welcome the commander home.
55:10 You know, there are four other places in Revelation
55:14 were the 24 elders are mentioned I just going to mention them
55:16 very quickly. Revelation 7:13, which we read.
55:21 Where the great multitude without number is found in front
55:24 of the throne of God.
55:27 In other words, they have been redeemed.
55:29 They're in heaven. Are we going to meet the 24 elders someday?
55:33 Are we going to meet the representatives of the worlds
55:35 Yes, because when the great multitude is there, the elders
55:37 are there.
55:40 Next place they are found is Revelation 11:16-17
55:44 We don't have time to read all these verses, but I want to.
55:47 Revelation 11:16-17, it speaks about the moment when Jesus
55:50 Christ receives his kingdom at the end of time.
55:54 Present there, once again, are the 24 elders.
55:58 They are mention in Revelation 14:3.
56:02 In revelation 14:3, we find a description of the 144,000
56:07 they are standing on Mount Zion, they're victorious
56:10 They have overcome the beast his image and they refused the mark
56:15 Now they are victorious on Mt. Zion, and along with them
56:19 are the 24 elders.
56:22 The final reference is in Revelation 15.
56:26 There we find a great multitude in heaven. By the way, the Lamb
56:29 is there, the four living creatures are there,
56:31 the one who is seated on the throne.
56:33 All of the beings mentioned in Rev 4 and 5
56:35 are there.
56:39 They are singing a song, in honor of God.
56:44 No longer is he the creator only, not the redeemer only,
56:48 but has judged the great harlot, who persecuted God people.
56:53 He has delivered God's people from their enemies.
56:57 Now they stand in heaven, victorious along the 24 elders
57:02 singing praises to the one who is sitting on the throne.
57:07 The good news is, very soon we are going to meet the 24 elders.
57:11 Isn't this good news? We'll be able the beings from other
57:14 worlds. Some people are bent out of shape because Ellen White
57:17 Says that she once spoke to someone from a different world
57:21 It shouldn't bend you out of shape, we find in Revelation
57:23 6 and 7, that John is speaking to one of the elders.
57:27 Isn't God wonderful? Praise the Lord.