Participants: David Shin and Steve Wolhberg
Series Code: BOF
Program Code: BOF000041
00:15 I like to welcome you to Battles of Faith,
00:17 my name is David Shin and I'm here with
00:18 Steve Wohlberg who is the speaker and director
00:20 of While Horse Media based in Fresno, California.
00:22 He is the author of several books
00:24 and has done extensive research on this topic of
00:26 the Supernatural from a Biblical perspective and
00:29 it has been quite a journey hasn't it through
00:31 the series of thirteen. Yes, it has been a great
00:33 thing with you. Yes and its been.
00:35 Program to program. Yeah, so it's quite
00:37 educational as I have learned some things
00:40 about the pillars of the other side in the
00:42 Supernatural and I understand that we're
00:44 going to New York today by web introduction to
00:46 set the stage for what we're gonna be talking
00:48 about today. That's exactly right.
00:50 This is a series we've given the title of the
00:53 series Magic Ghosts and the Bible and today we're
00:57 going to really on the ghosts and a historic day
01:00 in history which was March 31, 1848 back in
01:04 New York when what is called spiritualism was
01:08 given its birth. It was a birthday of modern
01:11 spirituals and I like to put up on the screen here
01:14 a marker that is actually the date where people
01:16 can go see it. And there it says, I'll read it.
01:19 The birthplace of modern spiritualism by the
01:22 spiritualists of the world, it was erected on
01:25 December 4, 1927 in commemoration of the
01:28 Advent of modern spiritualism. This is in
01:31 front of the home of Fox Sisters. There it says
01:35 March 31, 1848 and at the bottom there of that
01:38 monument it says " There is no death
01:41 and there are no dead." Now, let me give you a
01:45 little bit of background on that marker.
01:47 It was a very significant historical night.
01:51 March 31, 1848 the famous Hydesville
01:55 cottage was now inhabited by family,
01:57 The Fox Family. They have moved in, there
02:00 were two girls Margaret and Kate and a lot of
02:03 strange things have been happening in that home.
02:05 There was a window rattling, there were loud
02:08 thuds going down the pantry stairs, lot of
02:11 strange noises and bumps in night. Well, that
02:14 particular night, March 31, the two girls these
02:17 sisters, one of them was 10 years old, the other
02:19 one was nine years old and they were in bed and
02:22 there was a loud pounding on the walls
02:25 and they just sprang out of bed and one of the
02:28 girls Kate began to clap her hands and she
02:32 clapped her hands five times and then a knocking
02:36 occurred on the wall five times. And then her sister
02:40 held up five fingers and then there were five
02:44 knockings as well. And then one of the girls
02:46 responded and they said look Mr. Splitfoot that's
02:49 the name that they gave this ghost.
02:52 They said Mr. Splitfoot can both see and hear.
02:55 Can hear how many times we clap and he can
02:58 see how many fingers we have in our hands.
03:01 And this was actually the beginning of a whole
03:04 series of rappings and communications from
03:07 this ghost that claimed to be the spirit of a dead
03:09 peddler that the ghost said I had been murdered
03:13 and its bones were now underneath the cellar at
03:17 the bottom of the house and later on they did do
03:19 some excavations and some research and they
03:21 found that lone behold there were bones down
03:23 there that they hadn't previously found that
03:26 were hidden behind a wall. And as the news
03:28 began to spread these two young girls began to
03:30 go on on tour. They began to travel around
03:33 the country and they began to speak and give
03:34 public lectures and talk about how the other side
03:38 had spoken and this was supposedly proving that
03:42 the dead weren't really dead and that they are
03:45 out there and that they can come and talk to us.
03:47 And that was the birthday and the beginning
03:51 of movement that has been known as
03:53 spiritualism in our world. Now, let's go back to that
03:56 monument. If we can put that back up on the
03:59 screen again. That monument is today in
04:03 front of the Hydesville memorial park.
04:06 In New York it remains as a witness to the
04:08 birthplace of modern spiritualism and it says
04:10 they are the home of the Fox Sisters and again
04:12 look at the model at the bottom there.
04:14 This is model of modern spiritualism that there is
04:18 no death and there are no dead. Now, that is an
04:23 amazing doctrine. It's the foundation of the whole
04:28 idea that you can talk to the dead.
04:31 They believe that the dead aren't dead and if
04:33 the dead aren't dead then why can't the dead come
04:35 back and communicate with you. Now here's a,
04:37 here's a big question. Where did that doctrine
04:40 originate. The idea of that there is no death and
04:44 if there is no dead it is the basis of occultism
04:48 and spiritualism, where did that idea come from?
04:52 Well, let's go to the Bible. Let's find out. Yeah.
04:54 We go back in our Bibles to the book of Genesis.
04:57 Genesis describes the beginning of the world.
05:00 It describes how God made this planet and
05:03 everything in it in six days how he rested on
05:06 the Seventh Day. He made the world as a
05:08 beautiful place it was just perfect. There was no
05:11 sin, there was no suffering. There was no sorrow,
05:14 the rivers were flowing and the sun was shining
05:18 and the air was clear, no smog, no LA smog,
05:21 no Detroit smog, no Fresno smog where I
05:24 live or in the area where I live. Everything was
05:27 just perfect and there was a perfect man named
05:29 Adam and a perfect woman who was Eve.
05:33 And when you look at Genesis chapter 2 what
05:35 happens is in God's infinite wisdom he gave
05:39 this new, this new pair, this new couple,
05:45 the first human beings ever created he gave them
05:47 a specific, a specific test. He gave them access to
05:51 all the trees in a garden that he created which was
05:54 called the Garden of Eden, a beautiful
05:55 garden that he planted but there was one
05:58 particular tree that he set up and it was in the
06:01 middle of the garden and that tree was called the
06:03 tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
06:06 And in Genesis 2 verse 16, the Bible says that
06:08 the Lord God commanded the man and he said of
06:12 every tree of the garden you may freely eat but of
06:15 the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil you
06:19 shall not eat of it, for in the day that you eat
06:23 there of and then there is four words there David,
06:26 what are those four words.
06:28 It says "You will surely die."
06:29 Right. You will surely die. This was God's test,
06:34 it was a test of, of their love, a test of
06:37 loyalty, it gave them freedom, freedom to
06:39 choose, freedom to love and freedom to not love.
06:43 And so God set this up and that tree was the,
06:46 the big test and he said if you, if you eat from
06:49 that tree, if you take your hand and if you grab
06:52 that fruit and if you eat from that one particular
06:55 tree, God was very, very clear that you shall
06:59 surely die. Now, Genesis 1 gives the creation
07:04 account. Genesis 2 describes the test and
07:08 other things. And then Genesis chapter 3 reveals
07:12 the drama, it reveals the beginning of the cosmic
07:15 conflict on planet earth between the forces of
07:18 good and evil. If you look at Genesis chapter
07:21 3, verse 1, the Bible says that the serpent was
07:24 more subtle than any beast of the field which
07:28 the Lord God had made. And this is interesting
07:31 David that the serpent' in the Garden of Eden was
07:34 the very first medium to ever exist. And it wasn't
07:39 really that the serpent itself was subtle,
07:42 it was that the serpent became a channel for
07:46 another mind, for another entity that we talked
07:49 about in the last program who was kicked out of
07:52 heaven, whose name was originally Lucifer.
07:54 It was changed to Satan, he was kicked out of
07:57 heaven. He came down to this earth and he
08:00 entered this snake and he began to talk to Eve
08:05 through the snake. The snake became a
08:08 medium and if you look at verse 4 it says that the
08:12 serpent said to the woman, here is the
08:15 serpent representing Satan. He speaks to
08:18 Eve and he said you shall not, what?
08:22 Surely die. You shall not surely
08:24 die right now. Now that text is extremely
08:27 important. There is a lot of information that we
08:30 can glean just by looking carefully at this
08:33 passage. David this was the very first lie that
08:37 was ever told to the human race. Its right
08:40 here Genesis 3:4. This lie came
08:43 specifically from the serpent who was a channel
08:46 for the devil and this lie directly contradicted
08:51 what God said in Genesis 2:17. Right,
08:54 he said that if they ate from that fruit what
08:56 would happen? They would die.
08:57 They would die and then the serpent came along
09:00 and he said you will not die. You will not surely
09:03 die. He was really mocking God and then if
09:06 you look at verse 5, the serpent continued on and
09:09 he said for God doth know that in the day that
09:13 you eat thereof, if you eat from that fruit your
09:16 eyes shall be opened and you shall be as Gods,
09:21 knowing good and evil. So, here it is in Genesis
09:26 3 at the beginning of the Bible the serpent has
09:30 two basic ideas that he had put into Eve's pretty
09:34 head, her perfect head. The first idea was that
09:37 you don't die. You won't die, if you eat this fruit
09:41 no death. And the second idea is that you will be
09:44 your own God. You will be God, you are God
09:49 and you'll know good and evil.
09:51 So, let me see if I'm understanding you here
09:53 up to this point. You pointed out the
09:54 Fox Sisters and the rappings. Yes. And this
09:57 became the threshold, the beginning,
09:59 the watershed movement in the beginning of
10:01 what is called spiritualism today and
10:04 one of the tenets in that tombstone that we saw
10:06 was that there is no death.
10:08 That marker, it was a marker.
10:09 Oh, there's a marker. Okay, the marker said
10:11 that there is no death and then you can see the
10:14 trace all the way back to Adam and Eve in the
10:17 Garden and the first line out of the serpent's
10:20 mouth or the first deception out of the
10:22 serpent's mouth is "You will not surely Die"
10:26 And so we can see there is a link here.
10:28 This is not a new doctrine that has come
10:29 up, it goes all the way back to the beginning of
10:32 time here on planet earth.
10:33 That's exactly right. Mr. Splitfoot in New York
10:37 said that he was the ghost of a dead peddler
10:41 and he communicated the doctrine that there is no
10:45 death and you don't die and he had now come
10:47 back to communicate this idea to the Fox Sisters
10:50 which then spread around the world in
10:52 spiritualism. That doctrine really goes
10:55 right back to Genesis chapter 3, to the
10:58 teaching of the serpent. And it's amazing David
11:01 when you think about it that here are two lies
11:05 coming from the serpent, number one you don't
11:07 die which is exactly the opposite of what God
11:09 said and number two is you are God. And as you
11:12 look at, we've been talking about the occult,
11:13 we've been talking about witchcraft and
11:14 spiritualists and mediums. When you look
11:16 at the Wiccan or witchcraft movement
11:18 today and when you look at the spiritualist
11:21 movement today, both of those movements teach
11:24 there is no death. Both of them teach that human
11:27 beings are actually God, that we're divine within
11:30 and both of them and this is amazing teach
11:33 that there is no devil. And yet when you read
11:36 your Bible, it is the devil that taught those
11:41 very first two doctrines and so doesn't it just
11:43 make sense that the devil who taught those ideas
11:46 would be still teaching those ideas and then
11:48 would be trying to convince people that
11:50 there is no devil so he can teach these ideas and
11:53 happen just pass right into peoples heads and
11:56 that's exactly what's happening.
11:57 So you can see at least I see in this passage
12:01 that the doctrine of or the nature of man
12:04 specifically of what happens after death is
12:07 there death after life or is there life after death I
12:09 just say that if you naturally believe that
12:12 when you die you do not really die then the
12:14 natural conclusion is obviously I can
12:17 communicate with that person. Exactly right.
12:19 And it just leads you down that road and so.
12:21 That's right. That's exactly right.
12:22 The doctrine of communication with the
12:24 dead is based upon the doctrine that you don't
12:28 die. And that doctrine is based upon the teaching
12:32 of a snake in the Garden of Eden. That was a
12:35 mouth piece for Satan himself. Now, if you go
12:40 back to Genesis 3. Okay. It says in verse 6 that
12:42 when the woman saw that the tree was good
12:44 for food it was pleasant to the eyes, it was a
12:47 tree desirable to make one wise. She took of the
12:50 fruit and she ate it and she gave to her husband
12:53 with her and he did eat it. Adam and Eve were
12:56 both duped, Eve especially was duped.
12:59 Adam followed his wife because he loved her,
13:02 made the wrong decision, they both took the fruit,
13:03 they ate it and verse 7 says their eyes were
13:05 open, just like the serpent said your eyes
13:07 will be open but they were opened in a
13:09 different way than the serpent had implied.
13:12 It says there eyes were open and they knew that
13:14 they were naked and they sowed fig leaves
13:16 together and they made themselves aprons.
13:19 They knew they were, their enlightenment was
13:22 the realization of their nakedness. And right
13:25 after that in Genesis 3 it talks about how God
13:28 came back to them in the Garden, he confronted
13:31 them because of their sin. He dialogued with
13:34 them and eventually what he did was he covered
13:37 them, he covered their nakedness. And this is
13:40 really significant and I wish we had a lot of time
13:43 to really go into this. There is more information
13:46 on our website on whitehorsemedia.com
13:48 we have a lot of resources that discuss
13:50 this very thing and the significance of what
13:52 we're about to read. But in Genesis chapter 3
13:55 verse 21, the Bible says to Adam also and to this
14:00 wife did the Lord God make coats of skins and
14:04 he clothed them. Now this is really important.
14:08 In Genesis 2:16-17, God said that if they ate the
14:11 fruit they would die. The serpent denied that,
14:14 he said that they don't die, you won't die.
14:16 He led them into sin and when they did sin they
14:19 were naked and uncovered. They put fig leaves
14:23 around themselves to try to cover up that
14:25 nakedness, but God had another plan.
14:28 God wanted to cover them with something else.
14:31 And what does it say he clothed them with.
14:32 Coats of skin. Right. Coats of skin.
14:35 Now in order for God, think about this.
14:37 In order to, for him to clothe Adam and Eve with
14:42 coats of skin those skins would be the skins of
14:46 what. Animals.
14:47 Skins of Animals. Right. One animal or more
14:49 animals and what had to happen to one or more
14:52 animals in order for their coats to become
14:58 skins to cover Adam and Eve because of their sin
15:01 and their nakedness. Well, obviously they
15:03 lost the animal's life had to be met or the
15:07 animal had to cease to exist for the skins to.
15:11 Yeah, the animal. That's right.
15:12 The animal had to die. A friend of mine wrote
15:16 the music to the words of a very powerful
15:22 song called The Caretaker so this is what it says.
15:27 The caretakers are gone, there is an aching
15:29 loneliness. No one but God can see what is about
15:32 to come or what is to come. Adam cradles the
15:35 lamb to his chest as the universe collectively
15:39 recalls going back to that scene where the
15:41 animal died. The warm red blood soaks into the
15:45 wool and splatters upon on the alter rocks.
15:49 Many nights Adam woke in sweat remembering
15:52 that lamb that he had named kicking, bleeding,
15:55 going limp with eyes so trusting to the end.
16:00 He wants to split the apple out and he cries
16:03 out to Eve and he says what have we done.
16:06 What have we done? The serpent said there is
16:09 no death. He lied. When Adam and Eve sinned,
16:13 they were naked and God was about to
16:15 demonstrate to them that death was very real and
16:19 I don't know whether God did it or whether he
16:21 told Adam to take the lamb and he gave Adam
16:24 the knife and had Adam do it, but Adam was
16:27 certainly involved he watched a lamb die and
16:30 there had never been any death in the history
16:32 of the whole universe until that movement.
16:36 And it was the skin of that sacrifice that God
16:39 used to clothe Adam and Eve, because of their
16:43 nakedness. And what, or maybe I should say who
16:46 did that dead animal ultimately represent.
16:51 You would assume that looking at the New
16:53 Testament account, assume he covered
16:55 them and so it would have to be Christ who died.
17:00 That's exactly right. The first sacrifice in
17:04 the Garden of the Eden was the beginning of
17:05 many sacrifices that eventually pointed
17:08 forward to the ultimate sacrifice. It pointed
17:11 forward to the coming of a person called the
17:14 Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the
17:16 world who would eventually as the real
17:20 lamb, he would actually really die because of
17:26 the sin of Adam and Eve. Let's look at that in
17:29 the Bible. Luke chapter 23, Luke chapter 23.
17:37 At the end of the book of Luke the second to the
17:39 last chapter in verse 46 the Bible says that,
17:42 that when Jesus had cried with a loud voice he
17:46 said, Father, into your hands I commend my spirit
17:50 and having said that he gave up the ghost.
17:54 Which means his spirit, his breath he gave it up
17:57 and the Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ
18:00 actually literally died because of man's sin.
18:04 He took man's sin, he took Adam's sin;
18:06 Eve's sin; the sin of the first couple all the way
18:09 down to the end of time; your sin; my sin;
18:11 the sins of the whole world. Your sin,
18:13 everybody's sin, he took that all into his mind
18:16 and into his heart and he paid the price and he
18:18 actually literally died in First Corinthians
18:21 15:3, the Bible says that Christ died for our sins
18:26 according to the scriptures. What the
18:28 serpent said wouldn't happen has been
18:32 happening throughout history, animals have
18:35 died, people died and then Jesus Christ came
18:38 down here and he died as the ultimate sacrifice to
18:41 pay the penalty of man's sin. That's what the
18:45 Bible calls the Gospel, that is the good news of
18:49 God to try to get us back to pay the price for our
18:53 sin and to bring us back into his love and into
18:57 his grace. So you see all the way back in the book
19:00 of Genesis there is two conflicting messages,
19:03 one is you will surely die if you're in
19:05 disobedience to God's commands and then
19:07 second one is one the counter part and the
19:09 devil says you will not die but you see that as
19:13 a result of listening to devil's lie that death
19:15 did happen. It was the death of an animal,
19:17 there was death of Adam and Eve and then later
19:19 you see the death of the son of God, but if
19:22 you accept Christ obviously there is a
19:24 counterpart to this, death is not in the sense
19:27 an eternal death if you choose to accept Christ
19:30 because he died in our place.
19:31 It's right. I'll get to that. That's right. Yeah.
19:33 Let's keep going if you look at Luke chapter 24
19:36 right, the good news of the Bible is not only
19:38 that Jesus Christ died. That's just half the
19:40 story. The other half is what happened on the
19:43 first day of the week on Sunday morning.
19:45 In Luke 24 verses 1 to 5, what happens is early in
19:49 the morning three days after Jesus was crucified
19:52 and died on the Cross for the sins of the
19:53 world, these women came to the tomb to put
19:57 spices on his death body, they found the stone
20:00 rolled away. They looked, they saw a holy angel
20:03 standing there at the tomb he had rolled the
20:05 stone away and then the angel announced.
20:08 In verse 5 the angel said why are you seeking the
20:11 living among the dead. He is not here.
20:15 He has risen and the, the Biblical message,
20:19 the glorious message, the powerful message of
20:20 this book is that God's own son really did die,
20:24 he was really buried but then on Sunday morning
20:27 on the first day of the week he literally
20:28 actually rose from the dead and the angel said
20:31 why are you seeking the living among the dead.
20:35 See death is real, in spite of what the
20:38 serpent says that marker in front of the
20:40 Hydesville cottage in New York is wrong,
20:43 it says there is no death. There is death;
20:46 people have been dying throughout history.
20:48 Jesus Christ died and the good news is he has
20:51 been resurrected from the dead. He's risen from
20:54 the dead. 40 days later according to this book,
20:57 according to God's word, he ascended to heaven
21:00 and we are waiting right now and I believe we're
21:03 getting awfully close to the great day when the
21:07 son of God will actually come down from the
21:10 sky, he will return at his second coming.
21:13 And let's take a look at First Thessalonians
21:15 chapter 4 and let's notice what's going to
21:17 happen when Jesus comes again.
21:20 First Thessalonians chapter 4, verses 16 and
21:23 17 describe the great day, the awesome day.
21:27 Okay. The day that we're
21:29 longing for, that we're waiting for.
21:31 Verse 16 says First Thessalonians 4:16 that
21:34 the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with
21:38 a shout, with a voice of the archangel and with
21:41 the trumpet of God and then notice what it says
21:45 and the dead in Christ shall do what.
21:48 Rise first. They shall rise first.
21:50 That's right. That is a resurrection morning.
21:53 Not only did Jesus Chris rise but he is coming
21:56 back to raise us up, there is death,
21:58 there is burial, but Jesus is going to come and
22:02 raise us up and that's what the Bible says the
22:04 dead in Christ shall rise first and verse 17 says
22:08 then we which are alive and remain shall be
22:12 caught up. And what's that next word?
22:15 Together. Together. Right.
22:17 That is a key word there. Together with them in
22:21 the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we
22:24 shall ever be ready with the Lord. This verse says
22:27 that when Jesus comes down and the dead in
22:28 Christ rise he raises them up, that's when the
22:31 living and the resurrected dead will be together.
22:36 This tells us that our hope of reunion with our
22:40 loved ones is not that they are going to come
22:42 knocking on the wall of our house in the middle
22:45 of the night or we're gonna hear these thuds
22:48 you know going down the pantry stairs or the
22:50 windows are going to rattle, because your long
22:52 lost grandma or grandpa or whoever else has
22:56 come back to tell you there is no death,
22:57 everything is fine on the other side. That's not
23:00 the message of the Bible. The message of the
23:02 Bible is that death is real, that people do die,
23:05 that Jesus Christ came, that he died, that he
23:07 rose from the dead, that he went to heaven,
23:09 that he is going to comeback and he is going
23:11 to resurrect the dead, those who are the dead in
23:14 Christ, that believe in him, that in believe in
23:16 this book, that believe in his message.
23:18 Their sins are forgiven and they are accepted by
23:20 God because of his grace, because of that
23:23 covering. That covering of the animal skins
23:26 represents his white robe of righteousness that he
23:30 covers us with and that's how he covers and
23:34 removes our sin. And the reunion day happens
23:38 not on the other side when we die because the
23:42 dead comeback which is the message of modern
23:44 spiritualism, but reunion day comes on
23:47 resurrection day when Jesus comes down from
23:50 the clouds and raises the dead and we're caught
23:53 up together to meet him and to be with him and
23:57 the rest of the verse says at the end of verse
24:00 17 it says that when we meet the Lord in the air
24:03 and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
24:08 And then the last part of the verse, actually verse
24:11 18 says wherefore comfort one another with these
24:16 words. Not the words of spiritualists and medians
24:19 and those who are involved in witchcraft
24:22 and those that are involved in all kinds of
24:24 occult practices or who are teaching false
24:26 doctrines, but it's these words, it's the words of
24:29 the Bible that are to comfort us in time of
24:33 loss. I heard about an old saint on his death
24:36 bed he was talking to a group of friends and
24:39 family that were paying their final, final respects
24:43 as he was about to die and this is what he said,
24:46 if you miss me don't dismay. I may have to
24:50 rest in a mound of clay but when I hear that
24:54 trumpet sound I'm coming out of the cold,
24:57 cold ground. Halleluiah. I often, well maybe not
25:03 often but many times I have been in cemeteries
25:06 and I read tombstones and I look at, many of
25:09 them have Bible texts that look forward to the
25:12 resurrection of the great day and that's the hope,
25:15 that's the hope that we have. It's that Jesus is
25:18 going to come and raise the dead and bring things
25:21 back together. And as we wait in this world of
25:24 of we have to be on our guard against the
25:27 teachings of the serpent, the doctrine that there
25:29 is no devil, the doctrine that there is no death,
25:32 the doctrine that man is God which are,
25:34 which are the teachings of the new age
25:36 movement, the broader occult movement,
25:38 these lives, these doctrines are; they're
25:42 not true, they are deceptions, they lead
25:44 away from Jesus from confidence and hope in
25:48 his second coming and the whole need for him to
25:52 come and raise the dead and so that we can be
25:55 with him forever and ever. Our hope is in
25:58 Jesus. It's not in ghosts. He is our only hope.
26:01 He is our only savior. If its not, if it wasn't
26:03 for Christ we would go down to the grave and
26:06 come up no more. Now that would be it,
26:09 because Jesus went down and came up.
26:11 We, when we go down we could come up
26:15 because of him. Our dependence is upon him,
26:18 our hope is on him. He is our savior,
26:21 he is the lamb, he is everything to us.
26:23 And David if I should die before the Lord comes,
26:26 I'm not afraid 'cause I know that it will just be
26:30 short sleep until I open my eyes and I look up and
26:33 I see myself in. That's my hope as a Christian,
26:38 as a follower of Jesus Christ. Halleluiah.
26:42 Amen. That's really assuring. Now how can a
26:44 person that has just heard this message of the
26:47 resurrection be assured that on that resurrection
26:50 morning, that they will be there to be reunited
26:52 with their loved ones. Sure. Well, that's the
26:55 big question and there is many different
26:58 passages I'm sure we could point people to but
27:00 probably the simplest and the easiest for us to
27:03 communicate at this moment is John chapter 3
27:06 verse 16, where Jesus said that God so loved
27:10 the world, even though Adam and Eve sinned and
27:12 the whole world had sinned, God still loves
27:14 us. "God so loved the world that he gave his
27:16 only begotten son," his one son, that whosoever
27:20 and that includes you, it includes me, it includes
27:23 all of us, that whosoever believeth in him should
27:27 not perish but have everlasting life,
27:31 through Jesus Christ and faith in him.
27:33 That's how we have the hope that we'll be apart
27:35 of resurrection morning.
27:37 Well, that's reassuring that if we have hope in
27:39 Jesus that on the resurrection morning,
27:42 we can live eternally with our loved ones
27:45 forever and ever. Well, our time is
27:47 slipping away. Thank you so much for sharing
27:48 with us here today, Steve, it's been a
27:50 wonderful journey and I would like to invite
27:53 you to join us again next time. This is a series of
27:55 13 and a series on Battles of Faith,
27:58 magic ghosts and the Bible. It's our prayer
28:01 here that you will learn to live by every word
28:04 that proceeds from the mouth of God.
28:05 My name is David Shin and I'm here with
28:07 Steve Wohlberg. Join us again next time.